Something About Cari - Ep. 3: The Circle Expands

Summary

---

Dateline Originals: Something About Cari – Ep. 3: The Circle Expands

Released: February 4, 2026
Host: Keith Morrison (NBC News)

---

Episode Overview

In the third installment of “Something About Cari,” the investigation into the disappearance of Cari Farver and the menacing campaign against Dave Krupa and Liz Goliar escalates sharply. The circle of suspicion widens, following a fire at Liz Goliar’s home that investigators suspect may be no accident. New voices enter as law enforcement struggles to keep up with a web of accusations, threats, and shifting blame. The episode tracks the fallout from the fire, the entanglement of new people in the crosshairs, and pivotal shifts in the police’s approach to the baffling Farver case.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Suspected Arson at Liz Goliar’s Home

• Opening Scene: The episode opens with the Omaha Fire Department responding to a call from Liz, who finds her home full of smoke upon returning to collect the last of her belongings before moving (01:32).

  • Notable Quote – Keith Morrison:
    "Somebody set Liz Goliar's house on fire." (02:21)

• On-Scene Investigation:

  • Fire Battalion Commander Shane McClanahan assesses the scene. He finds no active fire but detects significant smoke and a heavy soot layer, the fire extinguished long before firefighters arrived (03:05 – 05:47).
  • Remarkable fire scene evidence: a red gas can and lighter fluid left on the main floor, not typically found there (05:34 – 06:00).

• Determining Arson:

  • Multiple points of origin for the fire, suggesting it was set intentionally—classic “arson 101” (06:35).
  • A trained canine unit finds ignitable liquids at six different spots in the basement (07:31).
  • Tragedy: Liz’s pets–two dogs, a cat, and a snake–succumb to smoke inhalation (07:06).

• Amateur Mistake Saves the House:

  • The perpetrator left all the windows closed in the basement, starving the fire of oxygen and preventing the home from being destroyed (08:27).

2. The Escalating Harassment and Stalking

• Immediate Suspicions:

  • Liz blames Carrie Farver for the fire, stating a history of harassment and destruction of property (04:04).
  • Email evidence: an email, purporting to be from Carrie, threatens Liz and her children with death by fire:
    "Hope you and your kids burn to death." (09:23)
  • Investigators note that with threats escalating to violence, their seriousness increases (09:44).

• The Aftermath—Liz Goes Into Hiding:

  • Liz, fearing for her and her children's safety, flees Omaha for Council Bluffs, Iowa, and moves in with her friend and former roommate Todd Butterbaugh (12:15).
  • Todd describes their relationship as non-romantic, mainly helping Liz out while often babysitting her children and lending support (14:02, 14:30).

• Ongoing Trouble for Liz:

  • Bizarre incidents persist, such as a suspicious pizza delivery that precedes a theft of electronics from the house (16:27 – 16:53).
  • Liz attributes all this trouble to Carrie, but others remain skeptical.

3. Dave Krupa’s Perspective—A Life Under Siege

• Dave’s Ordeal:
  • Krupa endures relentless threats, vandalism, and personal attacks (17:00+).
  • Carrie’s threats expand to target his children, leading Dave to purchase a gun for protection (18:29).
  • He ultimately joins Liz in Council Bluffs, thinking it might help him reclaim normalcy and see his children.

4. Amy Flora Gets Drawn In

• Amy’s Side of the Story:
  • Dave’s ex-partner, Amy, explains her relationship history with Dave and the desire for marriage that never materialized (22:15 – 22:46).
  • After the move, Amy and Dave see more of each other, much to “Carrie’s” displeasure.
  • Amy details the flood of hostile, intimidating messages she receives, sometimes as many as 50-60 per day, forcing her to repeatedly change her phone number and become hyper-vigilant about her safety (23:40 – 24:36).
  • Notable Quote – Amy Flora: “I was constantly looking over my shoulder.” (24:39)

5. New Investigative Direction: Is Carrie the Villain—Or the Victim?

• Case Stagnation and Fresh Eyes:

  • By 2015, the Carrie Farver missing person case is more “office chatter than active case” (25:35).

  • Detectives Doty and Avis from Pottawattamie County take a renewed interest, deciding to pursue parallel investigations: one treating Carrie as alive and active, the other assuming she is not (26:54).

  • Notable Quote – Detective Avis:
    “Maybe she's alive, but she's also missed so many significant events and hadn't physically been seen by anybody… so we didn't want to have tunnel vision down one.” (27:15)

• Digital Evidence Overload:

  • Detectives delve into thousands of emails and data dumps from Dave and Liz’s devices—11,000 emails saved by Dave alone (27:53 – 27:57).
  • They have not yet interviewed Liz when serendipity brings her to their office.

6. Liz Points the Finger at Amy

• Surprise Twist—Liz’s Accusation:

  • Liz arrives at the sheriff’s office to file a harassment report, unexpectedly, not against Carrie, but against Amy Flora, Dave’s ex (29:13).
  • Liz claims Amy has the motive to harass her and Dave, and that the three-year campaign attributed to Carrie never made sense for a brief relationship (31:32).
  • Notable Quote – Liz Goliar:
    “I would find it more reasonable to believe that his kid's mom [Amy]…” (31:38)

• Detectives’ Reaction:

  • While noting her claims, Detective Avis listens but remains skeptical as the case takes a potentially game-changing turn.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Keith Morrison on the central question:
  “Was Carrie Farver really the vengeful woman she seemed to be, or did she even exist?” (26:17)

• On the arson attempt:
  “It looked like a job done by an amateur fire bug. Whoever set the fire left all the windows closed in the basement, Ensuring that the fire would be starved of oxygen and thus unable to consume the entire house.” (08:27)

• Amy Flora on harassment:
  “I would get 50, 60 a day, just while I was at work… over a period of several months, until I finally changed my phone number. And then it would stop for a while. And then somehow she found the new one...” (23:59–24:17)

• Detective Avis on investigative approach:
  “Detective Doty thought the smart idea was not to have tunnel vision…” (26:54)

---

Timestamps of Key Segments

• [01:32]: Omaha Fire Department responds to Liz Goliar’s burning home
• [06:14–07:13]: Discovery of arson evidence; death of Liz’s pets
• [09:23]: Read-aloud of harassing email, “Hope you and your kids burn to death”
• [12:15]: Liz flees to Council Bluffs, Iowa, to live with Todd Butterbaugh
• [14:02]: Todd and Liz’s roommate dynamics, and Todd’s mixed expectations
• [16:27]: Burglary after pizza delivery, another mysterious incident in Liz’s life
• [18:29]: Dave Krupa describes being forced to buy a gun for his family’s safety
• [22:15–23:03]: Amy Flora recounts her past relationship with Dave
• [23:40–24:36]: Amy details the barrage of threatening messages and impact on daily life
• [26:03]: Detectives Doty and Avis begin to reconsider the entire case
• [29:13]: Liz files a harassment complaint against Amy Flora, shifting suspicion

---

Conclusion / Lead-In

As law enforcement expands its focus, the story’s web grows ever more tangled. With Liz now accusing Amy, and the police reconsidering every assumption they’ve had about Carrie Farver, the investigation stands at a crossroads: Was Carrie even alive, or was a bigger deception at play? The episode teases even greater upheaval to come—with more violence, twists, and revelations on the horizon.

---

Next Episode Preview:
“Coming up in future episodes…” features harrowing hints: a shooting, interrogations, and a case that approaches its break point (32:33).

---

This summary captures all major developments, key testimony, and investigative twists in Episode 3 of “Something About Cari,” spotlighting the methods, suspicions, and emotional toll on all involved.

Transcript

[Pharmaceutical Advertiser]

Did you know? About one in three people with plaque psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness and swelling. Does this sound like you listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away? Trymphy Gusocomab taken by injection is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy. And for adults with active psoriatic arthritis, serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu like symptoms or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphya. Tap this ad to learn more about tremphya, including important safety information.

[Commercial Narrator]

There's an SUV that turns the unthinkable into the unforgettable. The new Nissan Pathfinder. Built for big adventures in all that family chaos. It's powered by a strong V6 engine with a nine speed automatic transmission. Inside, it's rugged and capable, but still premium and tech forward with room for up to eight passengers. It's also available with seven passenger seating and second row captain's chairs with massive hauling capability. Now you can bring all the gear you and your family need for unforgettable Adventures. The new V6 Nissan Pathfinder. Power your adventure.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

There's a proverb you've heard before, that one about the relationship between smoke and fire. As in where there's the one, the other has been busy burning something, or soon will be. And in our story, investigators believe that by the late summer of 2013, for nine months, Carrie Farver had been, metaphorically speaking, arranging the kindling, flicking a lighter as she escalated her attacks on Dave Krupa and Liz Goliar. And so on Saturday, August 17, 2013 at 8:14am in west Omaha, was it really any surprise?

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

911 do you need police, fire or medics? Fire. I just walked into my house and there's smoke rolling out of it.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Somebody set Liz Goliar's house on fire.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

I don't smell any fire, but there's smoke in there.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Ma', am, if there's smoke in your house, then we don't want you to go back in there. I'm Keith Morrison and this is Something About Carrie, a podcast From Dateline Episode 3 the Circle Expands. Within minutes, the fire trucks descended on Liz's house, what's called a raised ranch, a main floor with a basement and an attached garage. Retired Omaha Fire Department battalion commander Shane McClanahan was on the scene. Shortly after the first units arrived.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

They advised me that as they entered the structure, they had what they described as a cold scene, which means there was no active fire. So they did not use any water. They did not have to do any or perform any extinguishment activities since there was no active fire.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

In plain English, then, the fire itself had gone out, leaving the house damaged. But standing. There was just smoke now, lots of it. And one very upset woman standing outside, Liz, that is, who picked up her phone again and called. Well, who else, Dave? She was standing in the street with the fire department going to her house on a Saturday morning, and I was at work, and she called me, freaking out. My house burned down. Oh, my God, it's that crazy person carry stalking me again. And then fire commander Shane McClanahan found Liz, and she told him the whole story, or tried to. All rapid fire anxiety.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

She appeared distraught, concerned. She was telling me almost immediately upon coming up on this, you know, that she's been having problems with an individual, Carrie Farver, and that the Omaha Police Department was currently working basically a destruction of property, a vandalism case against her and that she believed this is who started the fire at her house.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Well, we'll see, thought McClanahan. It was his job, after all, to determine how the fire started and if necessary, who said it. And he knew his business. Well, he had 20 plus years of experience finding the cause of fires. Still, the first step was to pay careful attention to whatever Liz could tell him, which was this. Liz said she was moving out of that house the day before the fire. The Friday, she carted out boxes and furniture and this and that. But darkness fell, and she was far from done. So she and her kids bunked in at a friend's place. And then Saturday morning, said Liz, she returned to the house to finish the move.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

She went up to the door, opened it, and encountered the smoke and called 911.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

So after getting those details, McClanahan stepped inside to take a look around.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

There was no thermal damage or where there had been any active fire on the main floor. Just a heavy soot layer, indicating that, you know, this fire had been extinguished for some time and had cooled.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

But then he saw some things in the living room didn't seem to belong in such a place. A red gas can and a container of lighter fluid.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

Obviously, that is not a normal place to find either. Gasoline, lighter fluid. Right.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

So alerted to possibilities, and he continued his tour.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

I made my way down the Stairs to the basement. And that's where I encountered my first actual thermal damage to the stairs. There was a burn pattern to a couple of stairs down towards the bottom of the run of stairs leading to the basement.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Now we're getting somewhere.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

The fire marshal thought it was basically arson 101. Multiple points of origin with no clear scientific reason of heat transfer and movement of fire, Natural movement of fire. That would explain, you know, how these multiple points would have come naturally.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

And as he made his way toward what he believed were the fire's points of origin, he confirmed what colleagues had already told him, that the fire had been deadly.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

They did advise that there were pets in the basement that had succumbed to the fire conditions.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Specifically, two dogs that Liz had left in a kennel and a cat and a snake. All had died of smoke inhalation. It was awful. Now, mcclanahan called in dogs of his own, A specially trained canine unit.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

These canines are trained to sniff out hydrocarbons, so gasoline, kerosene, charcoal, fluid. With this case, knowing that it was high probability this was an arson, I wanted to use the canine to get a more precise sample collection, which we did.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

And sure enough, the samples proved that the fire was set with ignitable liquids in six different spots in the basement. A little bit later, Omaha police detective Chris Legro showed up. He'd been looking into the stalking and harassment incidents that Liz and Dave had reported. He wanted to survey the damage himself.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

The inside of the house was pretty charred and, you know, burned and serious smoke damage.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Big down.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

Sufficient. Yes. Really could have ended up burning down the house, but just didn't quite get to that point.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Why was that? Well, it looked like a job done by an amateur fire bug. Whoever set the fire left all the windows closed in the basement, Ensuring that the fire would be starved of oxygen and thus unable to consume the entire house. As for who set the fire, Neighbors across the street said they saw a woman in a car parked outside Liz's house a few weeks before the fire. Detective legro showed them a photo of Carrie. The neighbor said they couldn't be sure, but said she had the same general appearance as the photo. And then further investigation turned up an email to Dave Krupa from Kerry, an email that left no doubt about who must have done it and that Liz was the target. We had a voice actor read the email.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

Nasty. Dave doesn't want you talking to him anymore. He wants to be with me. We're trying a new relationship. We have had sex recently. He loves me and always will. He doesn't want you back, you nasty fat whore. Liz. Hope you and your kids burn to death.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

And when the detectives saw that once

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

you get into situations like arson or threats to a individual's life or to those around them, their children, the ex boyfriend. Yeah, certainly you're going to take that much more serious.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Suddenly the case against Carrie looked very serious indeed. But like smoke from the fire, she had vanished into thin air.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

What I did was try and find some way of seeing if somebody saw her. And again came up with nothing. Over and over again, nothing.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

But that nothing was before long about to turn into something even more violent, more threatening, more dangerous. Lifelock.

[Lifelock Representative / Detective]

How can I help?

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't.

[Commercial Narrator]

One in four tax paying Americans has paid the price of identity fraud.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

What do I do?

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

My refund though.

[Lifelock Representative / Detective]

I'm free.

[Todd Butterball]

Freaking out.

[Lifelock Representative / Detective]

Don't worry, I can fix this.

[Commercial Narrator]

Lifelock fixes identity theft, guaranteed. And gets your money back with up to $3 million in coverage.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

I'm so relieved.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

No problem.

[Lifelock Representative / Detective]

I'll be with you every step of the way.

[Commercial Narrator]

One in four was a fraud paying American. Not anymore. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com Specialoffer terms apply here at

[Blue Apron Advertiser]

Blue Apron we know exactly how hectic school nights can be. That's why we created assemble and baked delicious one pan meals that make family dinner simple. Just assemble the pre chopped ingredients and put the pan in the oven to bake. Then you're free to help out with that last minute diorama shop. Assemble and [e-mail] get 50% off your first two orders with code apron50. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more.

[Commercial Narrator]

Hey guys, Willie Geist here. We're celebrating 10 years of Sunday today by hosting a very special Sunday sit down live event. And our guest is one of the biggest stars on the planet, Ryan Reynolds. We're taking our conversation to the stage in front of an audience of you for one night only at City Winery in New York on April 7th. An intimate in person evening I promise you won't want to miss. Tickets are limited, so grab yours [e-mail].

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

It's as natural as breathing more. It's the reason we've survived all these millennia. We and every other species on the planet. From garden slug on up. Bravado aside, our instinctive response to danger is to flee. Get the heck out of there. So soon after firefighters left the blackened remains of her raised ranch home that traumatic August morning, Liz gathered up her Children and her most important worldly possessions, and headed east out of Omaha, across the Mormon Pioneer Memorial Bridge, over the Missouri river and into the city of Council Bluffs, Iowa. After all the terror, the constant threats, the accusations, then the fire that could easily have killed her and her kids and did kill her pets, Liz needed to call in a favor. She needed help. And of all of her friends, she knew there was one. One man who would do just about anything for Liz. Goliar. One man she could move in with. He was an ex boyfriend sort of guy who would keep the light on for you. His name was Todd.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

Butterball.

[Todd Butterball]

I think we just kind of got along.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

That's Todd. Big hearted Todd. Very open, very accommodating. His past with Liz had never been one of those intense I'll love you forever relationships. But they did live together once, couple of years prior for a little while. So if Liz needed a safe space while she navigated some temporary troubles, well, he was the guy who could happily provide it. Then, no, he didn't need a big messy explanation anyway. Maybe something would happen between them. Maybe.

[Todd Butterball]

I hadn't been in a relationship for a while, so it was just. I can't say there was like chemistry

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

or anything like that, but no, turned out there wasn't. They were more like roommates really. Didn't even see each other all that much. Todd's IT job kept him away daytimes. And Liz worked odd hours, a lot of evenings, trying, as she told Todd, to get her own cleaning business up and running.

[Todd Butterball]

So she was pretty involved with that most of the time. And a lot of the times, according to her, most of her jobs were they could be anytime, even overnight. Construction sites would hire her to come in clean up apartments they just built or something like that. So the hours always varied.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Did she take advantage? Well, maybe. While she worked, Todd stayed home with her kids. Built in babysitter.

[Todd Butterball]

I'd watch him because he had to work overnight. Didn't want to leave him home alone or something.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Todd loaned Liz money, helped buy her cars and insurance, gave her gas money. But you can't force love. You can't buy it either. And if Todd hoped his help would lead to something more exciting and permanent with Liz, he hoped in vain.

[Todd Butterball]

There were some good times when we hung out and stuff. For the most part, she would stay downstairs in her room or in the basement. The kids would usually be upstairs with me watching TV or playing video games or something like that.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Why was Liz standoffish? Why couldn't she just relax and enjoy Todd's company. Maybe because she hadn't told Todd everything. All he really knew was that this woman he cared for needed help. He had no idea then that Liz had apparently been stalked for the better part of a year. Harassed her cars, vandalized her children, threatened her home, burned her pets, murdered by a specter. Todd didn't know all about Carrie Farver, but it had hints, like the one a few months before, long before the fire. What happened? It was another one of those times. Liz needed a little help with her kids, and she knew she could count on Mr. Accommodating her friend Todd Butterball.

[Todd Butterball]

She was going to work, so I was going to watch him. So typically when that happens, we'd order, like, pizza.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

And that's when something odd happened. Oh, the pizza guy showed up all right. And he seemed regular enough until he opened his mouth.

[Todd Butterball]

He kept remarking on the TV how nice it was and stuff like that. So, of course, the next day when it goes missing, that was our first thought.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

That thought being that the pizza guy must have returned the next morning when the kids were at school and both Liz and Todd were out and made off with the TV and Todd's laptop, by the way, and a bunch of electronic gear, too. Todd called 911, reported the burglary, but nothing came of it. So, yes, trouble continued to follow Liz. Trouble, she told the police, if not Todd Butterbaugh, that had to be caused by a nemesis named Carrie Farver. Meanwhile, back across the border in Omaha, Carrie's harassment left Dave Krupa existing, existing barely, in a permanent state of hyper vigilance. Felt like he was hanging on to a tripwire. After month upon month of threats and texts and emails and bricks being thrown through his windows and graffiti splashed on his shop and his car, Dave was on overload. That carry woman was driving him mad. It had even escalated to this point. Dave had two children who lived over in Iowa with their mom, and Carrie had threatened them. And when Dave's ex found out about that, she refused to let the kids cross the river into Omaha to visit Dave because of Carrie's threats. What did she say when she threatened your kids, for example? Oh, well, something along the lines of slit your children's throats. Wow, that's pretty hard to read. Then you bought a gun? Sure, yeah. Yeah.

[Todd Butterball]

Why?

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

For my safety, my children's safety, for just protection in general. All Dave Krupa wanted to do was escape Carrie. And finally, two years into the unrelenting nightmare he did or tried to, certainly didn't mean to make it Worse, Dave followed in Liz's footsteps and essentially fled, moved across the river from Omaha to Council Bluffs, which had the added benefit of getting him more time with his kids. But that meant that Dave Krupo would of course, also spend some time in the presence of the mother of his two children. Her name was Amy. Amy Flora. And Amy was about to find out what life was like in Carrie's crosshairs.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

I'm a single mom trying to raise two kids and work and provide for them. And then I have some crazy person sending me all these messages, you know, threatening my kids, telling me they're watching me. It was scary.

[Blue Apron Advertiser]

Here at Blue Apron, we know exactly how hectic school nights can be. That's why we created Assemble and Bake, delicious one pan meals that make family dinner simple. Just assemble the pre chopped ingredients and put the pan in the oven to bake. Then you're free to help out with that last minute diorama shop. Assemble and [e-mail], get 50% off your first two orders with code APRON50. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blue apron.com terms for more.

[Commercial Narrator]

He was a young Marine. She didn't care about convention. They made a life together. Then one night, the Marine died. And then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected and utterly bizarre turn. I'm Josh Mankiewicz and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all new podcast from Dateline. Listen for free each week or unlock

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

new episodes early and enjoy ad free listening by subscribing to date premium on Apple Podcasts.

[Kate Snow]

Hey, it's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor, host of the podcast the Drink with Kate Snow. I sit down with all kinds of celebrities, musicians, athletes, over a drink of their choice for candid conversations about how they made it there with actor, comedian, host Joel McHale. I could barely stop laughing. You know Joel from Community or the Soup, his new show, Animal Control. He asked for food, four bottles of Washington state wine for our interview. He has news about whether there's a community movie coming. He tells the story of how he got one of his first big acting gigs by lying about his height. And you have to stay through the credits. He's so funny. We have behind the scenes bloopers and outtakes from our conversation. Hope you'll listen and follow the drink wherever you get your podcast.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

There had been a time when all Amy Flora wanted was to be the only woman in Dave Krupa's life. Sure, he could be a little stoic, a little locked down emotionally, but Amy and Dave had met while they were Both in their 20s working at a truck stop. She a pretty, petite blonde waitress, and Dave a mechanic. And they'd fallen in love, had two babies, and moved to Wisconsin together. But then Amy wanted to return to Iowa to be closer to her family, and Dave just wasn't on board. He eventually followed, but he didn't want to be tied down in a relationship.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

I didn't want to split our family up or whatever. And, I mean, after 12 years, you would think there would be some kind of a proposal or something, but he's kind of emotionless.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

So he really didn't want to get married?

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

No. And I wanted to eventually be married, you know, I mean, every girl does. Everybody wants their fairytale wedding.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Sure. Well, you had two kids together for sake, and you'd lived together for over a decade.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

Right.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Kind of makes sense.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

Well, you would think so. Yeah.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

But that's, I think, kind of a lot of the reason why we both wanted different things. And I want. You know, part of it was I wanted to come home. And we were. Our relationship wasn't going to go any further than, you know, just being his girlfriend and not getting married or whatever.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Still, even after the split, Amy thought the world of Dave, especially as a father. He was solid, caring, kind, generous. Even so, Amy didn't regret her decision to keep the kids out of Omaha, even if it meant they couldn't spend overnights with her father. But now, with his decision to move to Council Bluffs, everything should have been just fine. So Amy relaxed the rules. The kids were happier, Dave seemed happier, and she. Well, it was good to see Dave again. Or it was until Carrie found out and the text messages started coming.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

I started getting threats. To me. I guess she felt threatened by our relationship, so she would tell me that Dave wasn't going to be with me or the whore. Liz just. I mean, it was crazy. It's hard to remember because there were so many of them.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

How many did you get?

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

I would get 50, 60 a day, just while I was at work.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

For how long?

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

Over a period of several months, until I finally changed my phone number. And then it would stop for a while. And then somehow she found your number. I changed my phone number?

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, but, I mean, she found out what the new one was.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

Yeah, she found the. Every time she found the new phone number, I guess I was kind of scared because I don't know how she

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

got my number and surprised, actually.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

Yeah. And surprised like I didn't understand how she got my number. I just changed it, you know, for the fact that she was sending all these messages to me.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

What did you do to protect your own safety?

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

Well, after things escalated, after a while, I'd have to have managers or other employees walk me out to my car or watch me walk to my car to make sure I got into it. I would have neighbors make sure that I got home okay. They'd be watching for me to come home. I'd text them and tell them I was on my way home. I had friends follow me home at one point to make sure that I got home okay. Yeah, I was constantly looking over my shoulder.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Why did you think Carrie was targeting you?

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

I think because of Dave and I's relationship.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

The fact that you had a continuing friendship?

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

Yes.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

Huh.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Just that, I mean, you weren't. You had no intention of becoming more romantic with him, right? No.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

No, not at all.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

But she just didn't want you to be anywhere near him?

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

No. I don't think she wanted me to be part of his life.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

A few miles from Amy's place, multiple law enforcement agencies were working on various aspects of the investigation of the whole Kerry affair. But those agencies were not always in sync. At the Potawatomi County, Iowa, Sheriff's Office, the missing person's investigation of Carrie Farver was by then more office chatter than active case. But office chatter is sometimes a good thing, because that's how Detective Sergeant Jim Doty and Corporal Ryan Avis got hooked on Kerry.

[Lifelock Representative / Detective]

We'd heard some stuff, you know, just. Yeah, water cooler talk, I guess, about the case. And it was something about this strange, crazy woman. It piqued her interest, and so we requested to take a look at it.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

That was nearly two and a half years after Kerry's reign of terror began. The file was huge by then. A bizarre digital house of mirrors. And so Detectives Doty and Avis came up with a plan. It began with a question that was so counterintuitive, it turned the entire investigation on its head. One that police had never really asked before, though Carrie's family certainly had. Was Carrie Farver really the vengeful woman she seemed to be, or did she even exist?

[Lifelock Representative / Detective]

Detective Doty thought the smart idea was not to have tunnel vision on any direction. So Ryan worked it as if Carrie's still alive. And he was gonna work it until he came to a dead end. I was gonna work it like she was not alive, because there's things that lead us to maybe both conclusions. You know, she's still active and sending text messages, sending pictures.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Certainly seemed alive.

[Lifelock Representative / Detective]

So maybe she's alive, but she's also missed so many significant events and hadn't physically been seen by anybody. So there's stuff that would lead us down both paths. So we didn't want to have tunnel vision down one. So each of us took one and

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

we started from scratch, started reading, reviewing

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

all the old material, reading all the

[Lifelock Representative / Detective]

reports, listening to any interviews that had been recorded, just diving in.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Of course, they had spoken to Dave Krupa. No doubt in Dave's mind, Kerry was very much alive and totally crazy.

[Lifelock Representative / Detective]

He was transparent. He gave us access to his whole email account.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

11,000 emails that he had saved over the years.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Ish.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

Could be more.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

Wow.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

But that wasn't all they had. Right there in the file was a wholesale dump of material from Liz Goliar cell phone, because it turned out she and Dave had allowed all the data to be offloaded from their phones more than two years before. So the detectives had been learning quite a lot about both Dave and Liz. They'd been immersed in all that for months, but hadn't interviewed Liz yet. And purely by chance, they were in the sheriff's office one day when they ran into just guess.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

I was in the hallway talking with a county attorney and another investigator was

[Commercial Narrator]

walking down the hall with Liz to his office.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Wow.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

And to me, it was like I saw a famous person because I knew everything about her. And she was there to file a harassment report.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

But this was odd. Liz's complaint was not against Carrie. She was at the sheriff's office to file a harassment report against someone else. Someone you've met.

[Commercial Narrator]

Amy Flora.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

That's the mother of Dave's children.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Wait, Amy, not Carrie. First, Detective Avis did a kind of psychic double take. And then he asked if he could be the one to interview Liz. And his superior said yes. Yes, he could sit down with Liz.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

Are you the only one home?

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. The interview started slowly, with the detective doing his best imitation of the famous TV detective Columbo. In other words, playing dumb. He has kids with Amy. Or Liz told the detective that her on again, off again relationship with Day was off again. But she said that ever since their most recent split, Dave's ex Amy had been stalking her on Facebook. And Liz said she was very worried

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

because Tommy and she'd grown up, his partner had his broken too, and his gun was stolen. So I told Goof. So I was kind of worried that she had the key to his apartment.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

The detective checked, and sure enough, Liz was right. Dave Krupa did report his gun stolen the previous week. But then Liz told detectives she'd recently had a eureka moment. As in she suddenly realized that she and Dave had both been played for fools. For three years, Liz believed that Carrie Farber was the woman behind all the threatening messages, the harassing graffiti, the deadly fire that killed Liz's pets. But suddenly it was like a light went on, said Liz. It wasn't Carrie at all. That scary, awful, online villainous. The woman responsible for all the trouble was just impersonating Carrie. The real culprit, Liz said, had to be Dave's ex, the mother of his children, Amy Flora. Diabolical. But think about it, Liz said. Amy was the one who so desperately wanted Dave and she had the motive. Much more so than the woman named Carrie.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

Like I said, they only dated for two weeks and I don't understand why a person would still be stalking him almost three years later.

[Fire Investigator / Police Officer]

Carrie and Dave dated for two weeks

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

and she supposedly was stalking for 23 years. I would find it more reasonable to believe that. His kid's mom,

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Detective Avis, took some notes, told Liz he'd do what he could to help her out. But the very next day, the case would take a turn that was, well, call it the beginning of the end of the vanishing of Carrie Farmer and the start of something altogether different and very devious. Coming up in future episodes of Something About Carrie. I've been shot in a leg. The female stuck a gun to her back, told her to get on the ground and then shot her in the leg and then ran off.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

All I can remember is the detective just kept yelling at me, telling me there's something you need to tell us and I didn't know anything.

[Narrator (Podcast Host)]

Something About Carrie is a production of Dateline and NBC News. Shane Bishop and Jessica Devera Lapid are the producers. Brian Drew Marshall House Feld and Greg Smith are audio editors. Brittany Morris is field producer. Molly DeRosa is assistant producer, Adam Gorfin is co executive producer, Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole as senior executive producer from NBC News. Audio Sound mixing by Rich Cutler.

[Interviewee / Victim / Witness]

When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot and turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today.