Prosecutors' love triangle theory. Youth pastor accused of wife's murder. Plus, June Diane Raphael.

Summary

Dateline: True Crime Weekly – July 2, 2026

Episode Theme:
An insider look at the week’s biggest true crime developments: a love triangle at the heart of a San Diego murder trial; a youth pastor accused in his wife’s decades-old death plus disturbing allegations from his time leading a church group; courtroom updates on Luigi Mangione and Alec Murdoch; and a conversation with actress/podcaster June Diane Raphael, who shares her true crime obsessions and discusses the upcoming Legally Blonde prequel.

---

1. San Diego County Courthouse: Maya Millette Murder Trial

(Segment Begins 01:15)

Overview

• Prosecution alleges Navy optician Larry Miliette murdered his wife, Maya, in 2021; Maya has never been found and no physical evidence has been presented, with the case instead hinging on marital discord and an alleged love triangle.

Key Discussion Points

• Central role of affair:

  • Maya’s lover Jamie Laird testifies about their relationship, which started six months after working together (03:31).
  • Larry caught Jamie and Maya together just days before her disappearance (03:58).
  • Patricia Laird (Jamie’s ex-wife and a sheriff's deputy), called as a surprise witness, provides unique perspective: she was in labor the night Maya vanished and corroborates Jamie’s alibi (04:28, 07:54).

• Patricia’s Testimony:

  • Patricia recounted Larry’s persistent contact through various phone numbers, which she eventually blocked (05:36).
  • Surprising new detail: Patricia called Maya “woman to woman”; Maya claimed the affair was fabricated to “make Larry feel stupid” and denied being afraid of Larry (05:53).
  • Patricia “did not want any more drama,” described herself as wanting to move forward, and wanted to believe Jamie was faithful (05:05).

• Legal strategies:

  • Defense emphasized Larry was always polite in calls to Patricia, countering prosecution claims of him being unhinged (06:47).
  • Patricia’s timeline gave Jamie a strong alibi—he was with her in the hospital when Maya disappeared, helping to eliminate him as a suspect (07:54).
  • Lack of Maya’s body presents a challenge: jury must be convinced she is actually dead (08:32).

Notable Quotes

• “She remembers that year essentially reaching a point with Larry that she didn’t want any more drama…especially if you’re pregnant.” – Alexis Rivas (05:05)
• “She [Patricia] wanted to call Maya woman to woman…Maya told her the affair was a story she made up to make Larry, quote, feel stupid, and that Larry was, quote, crazy.” – Alexis Rivas (05:53)
• “The likelihood that she is alive is pretty much non-existent.” – Alexis Rivas (08:32)

---

2. Cold Case Reopened: Youth Pastor David Vandermeer Accused in 2006 Wife’s Death

(Segment Begins 11:17)

Overview

• David Vandermeer, youth pastor, accused 20 years after his wife Bernadette’s fatal fall during a hike—which was originally deemed accidental.

Key Discussion Points

• Relationship & Incident Recap:

  • David and Bernadette met as teens, married young, and shared strong faith (12:32).
  • In 2006, Bernadette died after a predawn hike on the Angels Landing Trail (13:14).

• Initial Investigation:

  • David claimed Bernadette fell as he set up a sunrise photo (13:14).
  • Early suspicions from investigators, but insufficient evidence led to accidental ruling (13:58).

• Subsequent Behavior & Allegations:

  • David fired from church after parties for teens involving alcohol and gambling (14:08).
  • Former youth group members allege grooming and inappropriate relationships, but no charges at the time (14:37).

• Breaking the Case Open:

  • “SH”, a key witness, says David groomed her from age 14 and began a sexual relationship while he was married to Bernadette (15:25).
  • SH said David told her “the only way the two of them could ever be together was if, quote, Bernadette was not alive” (15:51).
  • SH married David after Bernadette’s death, reinforcing the prosecution’s theory of motivation (16:06).

• Financial Motive:

  • David collected over $567,000 in life insurance after Bernadette’s death (16:28).
  • Bernadette’s mother recalled life insurance password being changed unexpectedly the day before the hike (16:48).

• Forensic Timeline Issues:

  • NASA data didn’t match David’s claim of waiting for sunrise for the photo—the call for help came when it was still dark (17:26).

• Shocking Twist:

  • David Vandermeer died by suicide in jail days after his arrest, stunning Bernadette’s family (18:23).
  • Family felt “justice had been served” with the arrest, but are left with unresolved grief after his death (19:00).

Notable Quotes

• “David told her that the only way that the two of them could ever be together was if, quote, Bernadette was not alive.” – Nate Eaton, quoting SH (15:51)
• "[Bernadette] was a wonderful, special woman of God. She had a great, bright future ahead of her, and it was cut short." – Bernadette’s mother, Maggie (19:31)
• “They felt like they were finally going to get those answers that they had longed for, but... his death won't erase the loss of Bernadette.” – Nate Eaton (19:00)

---

3. Dateline Roundup: Courtroom Developments in Mangione, Murdoch & Oliverdian Cases

(Segment Begins 22:18)

Alec Murdoch Retrial—South Carolina

• Double murder conviction overturned due to appeals; retrial set for April 5, 2027 (22:43, 25:38).
• Defense motions: change of venue, appearance rights, DNA testing—a lighter moment as judge quipped “I’m gonna let you pay for it” (24:53, 25:24).
• Judge Deborah McCaslin: “Let me tell y’all, I don’t know anything about the first trial... don’t assume that I know, because I don’t.” (24:12)

Luigi Mangione—New York Federal Case

• Charged in high-profile CEO murder; trial delayed due to schedule conflicts—federal trial now January 25, 2027 (26:09).
• Mangione appeared late in court after being stuck in courthouse elevator. (26:09)
• Plea deal talks recently fell apart, but remain possible up to trial (27:08).

Nicholas Oliverdian—Utah

• International con man who faked his own death in 2020 and posed as "Arthur Knight" in Scotland (27:25).
• Extradited, convicted of rape in two cases (28:11).
• Died in prison last week from medical complications after discontinuing treatment—he was 38 (28:30, 28:36).

---

4. Interview: June Diane Raphael—Actress, Podcaster, True Crime Superfan

(Segment Begins 29:07)

On Being a Dateline Fan

• Attributes women’s fascination with true crime to empathy, agency, and learning red flags from victims’ stories (30:23):

  • “There is something about listening to these stories that are told with such humanity and such empathy for the victims and their families where I think we're kind of getting back some agency and learning and understanding what red flags were…”

• Recalls moderating a panel with Keith Morrison and Josh Mankiewicz at SXSW, likening the buzz to Beatlemania, and cites their genuine devotion to victims’ families (31:26):

  • “It was like the Beatles were there. People were going crazy for them…”
  • “I specifically remember Josh talking about just how much of his time was spent just on a day-to-day, following up with these stories, just staying in touch with these families and victims. And I thought that was so beautiful.”

Cases She’s Following

• Closely watching the Luigi Mangione case, especially after learning about twists with his defense (32:31).

Legally Blonde Prequel

• Plays Elle Woods’ mother in Amazon Prime’s new series Elle—reflects on the lasting impact of the original film, including inspiring women to go to law school (32:57).
• Describes the origin story as “special,” emphasizing the network of women who shape a person’s journey (33:51):
  • “We didn’t just arrive confident, successful, whatever... There are other women who helped us along the way... So it’s really, it's a very special series.”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “She [Patricia] just kept saying she wanted to move on with her relationship...especially if you’re pregnant.” – Alexis Rivas (05:05)
• “After Bernadette died, [S.H.] ended up marrying David.” – Nate Eaton (16:06)
• “It was like the Beatles were there. People were going crazy for them.” – June Diane Raphael (31:26)
• “[Elle Woods]…I’m kind of blown away by the cultural impact this character has had. And you certainly find out in the series how she became who she is.” – June Diane Raphael (33:28)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:15] San Diego murder trial (Miliette case)
• [11:17] Utah cold case, youth pastor accused (Vandermeer case)
• [22:18] Dateline roundup: Murdoch, Mangione, Oliverdian
• [29:07] Interview: June Diane Raphael

---

Tone & Style

• The episode maintains Dateline’s signature compassionate, methodical, and slightly conversational tone, with deep empathy for victims and a critical eye on legal developments. Light moments surface in judge banter and June’s celebrity stories, but the underlying gravity of the cases remains clear.

---

Summary prepared for listeners who want all the essential insights, highlights, and drama, straight from this week’s Dateline: True Crime Weekly.

Transcript

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[June Diane Rayfield]

Strap yourself in. This is an interesting one.

[Andrea Canning]

It's the start of another workday for the DATELINE team.

[June Diane Rayfield]

She's saying, no, I didn't do it. Dad did it. It was a murder suicide.

[Andrea Canning]

Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news Monday. There's motions and stuff.

[Nate Eaton]

When she saw herself on video, she realized, wow, this is exactly as I remember it.

[Keith Morrison]

We're gonna cover all the ins and outs of this.

[Andrea Canning]

Welcome to DATELINE True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's July 2nd and here's what's on our docket. In Las Vegas, a former youth pastor is accused of murdering his wife on a hiking trail. Disturbing allegations emerge about what went on in his church youth group.

[Nate Eaton]

She actually said that David told her that the only way that the two of them could ever be together was if, quote, bernadette was not alive.

[Andrea Canning]

In DATELINE roundup, we've got the latest from the courtroom. In the blockbuster cases of Luigi Mangione and Alec Murdoch, there were dozens of

[Sue Simpson]

media outlets, international agencies, local TV stations and of course, true crime podcasters were there.

[Andrea Canning]

Plus, we're joined by June Diane Rayfiel, star of the new Legally Blonde prequel series, who's also an avid DATELINE viewer. She talks about the case she can't get enough of.

[June Diane Rayfield]

I'm surprised at the recent development which I learned about on your podcast.

[Andrea Canning]

Before all that, we are heading back to a San Diego county courthouse and the murder trial of Navy optician Larry Miliette. Before resting, the the prosecution called another bombshell witness. For the past six weeks, prosecutors have tried to convince jurors that Larry Miliette murdered his 39 year old wife Maya back in 2021. They haven't presented any physical evidence that a murder even took place and Maya's body has never been found. Instead, their case is largely focused on Larry and Maya's failing marriage. Prosecutors say Larry became increasingly unhinged as he realized Maya planned to leave him. At the crux of their case is a love triangle involving Larry, Maya, and Maya's lover, Jamie Laird. Last week, jurors heard from Jamie about the affair. Then prosecutors called a witness no one had heard from before. Someone else deeply affected by the affair. Jamie's wife at the time, Patricia. Joining us again is NBC 7 investigative reporter Alexis Rivas. Hey, Alexis. Welcome back.

[Alexis Rivas]

Hi, Andrea. Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

Sure. This affair between Maya and Jamie is really central to the story the prosecution is telling. Remind us who Jamie is and when he got together with Maya.

[Alexis Rivas]

So Jamie started working in the same office as Maya in the summer of 2019. But it was about six months later, while he was on a work trip to New York, that he said Maya started texting him. And that texting very quickly turned into. Into a physical relationship. He said within a month, they started meeting at hotels, meeting in their cars. They were also using secret Instagram accounts to send hundreds of messages. Actually, over the course of a year, they sent. Detectives said that they sent 760 messages, most of which were sexually explicit. In the early summer, late spring of 2020. And this is the year before Maya vanished. Jamie said Larry actually caught the two of them inside of a truck just outside of their office. And the week Maya vanished, Jamie said that Larry had called his then wife, Patricia Nicole Laird, to essentially expose the affair.

[Andrea Canning]

What do we know about Patricia Laird?

[Alexis Rivas]

So Patricia Laird has been a San Diego County Sheriff's deputy since 2016. We have known just during the course of this trial that Patricia was pregnant. She actually wound up going into labor the same night Maya was last seen alive, January 7, 2021. And something we didn't know until she took the stand is that Larry didn't just call her the week Maya vanished. They actually were talking the whole year leading up to that point that Maya disappeared.

[Andrea Canning]

What was her demeanor like? It must have been so uncomfortable talking about her ex husband's infidelity.

[Sue Simpson]

Right.

[Alexis Rivas]

We weren't really sure what to expect. But she did smile a few times while she was on the stand. She didn't appear shy. She did not get emotional. The things she kept saying over and over is that she remembers that year essentially reaching a point with Larry that she didn't want any more drama. She didn't want to be a part of the drama. She just kept saying she wanted to move on with her relationship. She wanted to believe that Jamie was being loyal to her. And she said, who wouldn't want to believe that your husband is actually being faithful, especially if you're pregnant.

[Andrea Canning]

Larry was calling Patricia a lot, Right.

[Alexis Rivas]

So, yeah, he would call her from different phone numbers, like his work number or some of the kids numbers or some unknown numbers. And it got to a point where she was just really sick of it, so. So she started blocking Larry. She didn't really want to deal with him calling her anymore. And then even more surprises came from her testimony.

[Andrea Canning]

What were those surprises?

[Alexis Rivas]

So she called Maya. I don't think anyone knew that Patricia Laird had ever talked to Maya directly. She said she wanted to call Maya woman to woman, and see what was happening. She says Maya told her the affair was a story she made up to make Larry, quote, feel stupid, and that Larry was, quote, crazy. And that's when something interesting happened, because Patricia says being a law enforcement officer, hearing the word crazy, this didn't seem really normal to her. So she wanted to ask Maya if she was okay and needed any help, like with police resources, restraining order, for example. But apparently Maya turned her down, said she didn't need any of that and she wasn't scared of Larry.

[Andrea Canning]

With these phone calls from Larry to Patricia, it sounds like the prosecutors were trying to portray Larry as maybe somewhat obsessive. The defense handled the calls between Patricia and Larry very differently.

[Alexis Rivas]

Yes. In cross, the defense really wanted to drill down the point that Larry was always polite, that Larry wasn't aggressive, didn't seem violent, didn't seem unhinged. And they also wanted to counter her. You know, did Maia really have the ability to say that he was crazy? You know, in what way? So I think that was a big area of some damage control. Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

And also what you said earlier about Maya telling Patricia that she was not scared and didn't need her help.

[Alexis Rivas]

Yeah. She shut down the opportunity to take any kind of resources.

[Andrea Canning]

Alexis, how did Patricia's testimony impact the defense's strategy that, you know, Jamie could be an alternate suspect in all of this?

[Alexis Rivas]

There's definitely a couple things that worked in favor for the defense after Patricia took the stand. I mean, Jamie, you didn't really have to impeach him. He admitted on the stand that he lied. But she insinuated that Jamie could still be lying, that he might still be holding some things back. So that helped their case.

[Andrea Canning]

I think it seemed like something that worked against the defense. Was Patricia backing up Jamie's timeline of events, where he was, what he was doing at the time when Maya disappeared.

[Alexis Rivas]

That's really what the prosecution, I think, needed Patricia Laird for, is that they needed someone to say, this is where Jamie was. She went into labor the night Maya disappeared. And they were at the hospital for five days because of complications. And she said Jamie was with her, that that's really what the prosecution needed, I think, to help the jury eliminate him as a suspect.

[Andrea Canning]

One thing, you know, obviously that the defense has to work with is that Maya's body has never been found. And in fact, DATELINE was mentioned during the trial this week in our for our Missing in America series where we profiled Maya.

[Judge Deborah McCaslin]

That's right.

[Alexis Rivas]

Because that's a huge part of this case that I think sometimes we forget about because there's this presumption that she's not alive. But the jury has to not only if they want to reach a conviction against Larry, they have to reach a conclusion that she is in fact dead and she's not alive somewhere out there. So this prosecution has to prove that there was all of this attention on her case. And in this day and age, the likelihood that she is alive is pretty much non existent.

[Andrea Canning]

We should say Larry has maintained his innocence from the beginning. At the time we're taping this, the defense has not started presenting its case to the jury yet. But according to the court, they've only asked for one day to call witnesses. The jury should get the case next week. And we will be watching closely. Alexis, thank you so much for your analysis.

[Dylan Dreyer]

Of course.

[Alexis Rivas]

Thanks so much again.

[Andrea Canning]

Coming up, a Las Vegas youth pastor is accused of murdering his first wife 20 years ago. One of the key witnesses against him, his second wife.

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[Dylan Dreyer]

Hey, everyone, I'm Dylan Dreyer, co host of the third hour of Today and

[Andrea Canning]

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[Dylan Dreyer]

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[Andrea Canning]

Just before sunrise on August 22, 2006, David and Bernadette Vandermeer set off to hike the Angels Landing Trail in Utah's Zion National Park. Hundreds of thousands of people make that same trek each year, drawn to the trail's breathtaking views and treacherous terrain. But Bernadette never came back down. David, a youth pastor, told investigators his wife had accidentally fallen off a cliff to her death. They had some suspicions about David's story, but the case was ruled an accident, and it stayed that way for nearly 20 years. Then last week, news broke on NBC affiliate KSNV.

[Laura Jarrett]

Authorities in Utah reopened a murder case surrounding a suspicious fall at the Angels Landing Trail at Zion National Park.

[Andrea Canning]

US Marshals arrested David Vandermeer in Las Vegas to face charges back in Utah for the murder of his wife and insurance fraud. East Idaho News reporter Nate Eaton has been following this case closely and recently spoke with Bernadette's family for his podcast, Courtroom Insider. Nate, welcome back to the podcast.

[Nate Eaton]

Thanks for having me, Andrea. Good to see you.

[Andrea Canning]

You, too. All right, so, Nate, take us back to the beginning. Tell us about David and Bernadette. What was their story?

[Nate Eaton]

They actually met as teenagers. They performed together in a church play. They fell in love, and they got married. Bernadette was Fairly young, only 18 years old. Her family says that faith was so important to them. At one point, she actually worked in a casino as a cocktail waitress. And her mother said that she would often share the gospel with people who she met while they were gambling.

[Maggie (voice in story)]

She would spread the word about Jesus Christ, the people she'd be delivering drinks to.

[Nate Eaton]

And by 2006, they were living in Vegas and attending a church where David was the youth pastor.

[Andrea Canning]

So that brings us to August of 2006. Walk us through what David said happened that day in the national park. That terrible day.

[Nate Eaton]

Well, they went a few weeks before their wedding anniversary to. To celebrate that. And according to the probable cause affidavit, David and Bernadette drove to Zion national park. It was August 21st. They spent the night there. Early the next morning, very early, they began hiking Angel's Landing before the sun came up. David said they reached the summit while it was still dark, that he stepped away to set up a sunrise photograph. Then he heard his wife scream. He turned around, and she had fallen off the cliff. Now, investigators thought that part of his story were suspicious, parts of him. But according to the affidavit, they didn't believe they had enough evidence to actually prove that this was a crime. So that's what her death was ruled accidental.

[Maggie (voice in story)]

And.

[Nate Eaton]

And the case was closed.

[Andrea Canning]

Nate. For years, that's where the case stayed. A lot of years. What happened to David after Bernadette's death?

[Nate Eaton]

He moved on with life, and so did her family. Andrea David returned to the church where he was the pastor, the youth pastor, after she died. But then around 2008, the affidavit says that he was fired after leaders learned at the church that he was throwing parties for teenagers and giving them alcohol and encouraging gambling. Eventually, he built this entirely new life in Las Vegas, working as a school counselor and actually becoming a yoga instructor.

[Andrea Canning]

So while David was building this new life, investigators say another story was unfolding behind the scenes. According to the affidavit, former members of the youth group began coming forward with allegations that David had groomed them. Investigators looked into it, but no charges were brought at the time. So what led to the investigation into his wife's death?

[Nate Eaton]

A few years later, a senior pastor at the church contacted authorities in Utah and said that they no longer believe that Bernadette's death had been an accident.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so there's an important witness in all of this who really seemed to help crack the case wide open. And investigators identify this witness in the affidavit only by her initials. And S.H.

[Nate Eaton]

yeah, she said that David began grooming her when she was 14 years old. She said that the relationship became sexual when she was 16. And at this time, David was still married to Bernadette.

[Andrea Canning]

So according to the affidavit, SH Told investigators she tried to break things off with David the night before David and Bernadette left for Zion National Park.

[Nate Eaton]

Right. And she actually said that David told her that the only way that the two of them could ever be together was if, quote, Bernadette was not alive. And get this. After Bernadette died, she ended up marrying David.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, my. Wait, so is this now marriage number?

[Nate Eaton]

It was number two, because then he got married again.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. Investigators believe this relationship then motivated David to kill Bernadette. But there was more to it than just the relationship. As we know, Nate, in a lot of our cases, life insurance comes into play as a possible motive.

[Nate Eaton]

Yep. The money. And according to the affidavit, David collected around $567,000 in life insurance. Proceed after Bernadette's death. Now, I spoke with her mother, who told me that the very morning they left for Zion, Bernadette had told her that they had recently increased their life insurance coverage.

[Maggie (voice in story)]

And she said, come here, I'll show you. And she took me to the computer and put a code in, and it didn't work. She put another code in, and it still didn't work.

[Nate Eaton]

The password had been changed. And she said, david changed the password. I'll figure it out. We can log in later and I'll show you.

[Andrea Canning]

So many suspicious things happening in all of this. Nate, you know, these. These cases can be tricky for investigators. These where people get pushed off cliffs. In this case, you know, David's the only person with Bernadette on top of the cliff that morning. What else did they uncover to propel this investigation?

[Nate Eaton]

They went through the timeline that he gave them minute by minute. He had always maintained that he was setting up the camera to take the sunrise photo with his wife when she fell.

[Andrea Canning]

But.

[Nate Eaton]

But according to the affidavit, when investigators compared his timeline to the NASA sunrise data, they didn't match up. If David had really been getting Bernadette into a position for a sunrise photo, the sun should have actually been coming up. But the first 911 call came in long before the sun was visible from the location. So it was still dark when that 911 call came in. And so once they were able to piece all this together, plus the previous woman coming forward, they say that the evidence pointed to murder and that it was not an accident.

[Andrea Canning]

And this all led to David's arrest. He was taken into custody pending extradition back to Utah. But then another shocking twist in this, right.

[Nate Eaton]

We learned he was supposed to appear in court on Thursday. The judge showed up and said that actually he wasn't going to be there because he had died. He's not here, he's deceased.

[Alexis Rivas]

So he's taken off camera.

[Nate Eaton]

And then the jail released a statement saying that they had an inmate who had died from self inflicted injuries who was David.

[Andrea Canning]

I can't even imagine what this is like for the family. All these years go by, someone's finally arrested for their daughter's death, and then now he's dead. So quickly afterwards, how did they react?

[Alexis Rivas]

To this.

[Nate Eaton]

Yeah, it's been a rollercoaster. You know, when Bernadette died, they had their suspicions. But then they say that they were able to put them aside and move on with life because he was never charged. So when investigators called to tell them the news that he had been arrested, they felt like they were finally going to get those answers that they had longed for. But the day that he died, I actually spoke with them a few hours after that, and they said that they felt like justice had been served. They but his death won't erase the loss of Bernadette.

[Maggie (voice in story)]

She was a wonderful, special woman of God. She had a great, bright future ahead of her, and it was cut short.

[Andrea Canning]

Such a heartbreaking story. Nate, thank you for bringing it to us.

[Nate Eaton]

Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

Up next, it's time for DATELINE roundup. Luigi Mangione and Alec Murdoch are back in court, gearing up for their trials. Plus, she's a beloved actress and podcaster and a devoted DATELINE viewer. We'll be catching up with June. Diane rayfiel,

[Keith Morrison]

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[Laura Jarrett]

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[Laura Jarrett (continued)]

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[Laura Jarrett]

Start Today meets you where you are. Download the the Start Today wellness app now on your Apple or Android device. Terms Apply C app for details.

[Andrea Canning]

Welcome back. Joining me for this week's roundup is DATELINE producer Sue Simpson. Sue, thanks for being here.

[Sue Simpson]

Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

So, sue, we are back in South Carolina, where Alec Murdoch was back in court this week. He is, of course, the disgraced former attorney whose double murder conviction was overturned by the state Supreme Court in May. Remind us why these convictions were overturned.

[Sue Simpson]

So, Andrea, as you know, in 2023, Murdoch was found guilty and sentenced to two consecutive life sentences in prison for the murders of his wife Maggie and his son Paul. Shortly after he was sentenced, Murdoch's defense team filed an appeal arguing that he didn't get a fair trial. The appeal eventually made its way to the state Supreme Court and five judges unanimously ruled to overturn Murdoch's convict and ordered a new trial.

[Andrea Canning]

So this is the first hearing that he's had leading up to his retrial. Murdaugh was wearing an orange jumpsuit, prison jumpsuit, and was shackled. And remember, he is behind bars not for the murders, but for financial crimes that he pleaded guilty to. He has always maintained his innocence, though, for the murders. And sue, the courthouse was packed. And this can fit what, 200 people?

[Sue Simpson]

200 approximately. And Andrea, no surprise, it was packed, right? There were dozens of media outlets, international agencies, local TV stations, and of course, true crime podcasters were there. The judge, Deborah McCaslin, acknowledged the crowd when she sat down at the bench.

[Judge Deborah McCaslin]

I see we have a full house. Good morning.

[Sue Simpson]

So, Andrea, this is a new judge. She took over from Judge Clifton Newman, who recently retired. And while many of the people at the hearing were probably very familiar with the Murdoch murders, the judge was not. And she acknowledged that.

[Judge Deborah McCaslin]

Let me tell y', all, I don't know anything about the first trial. So when you tell me something, please be complete when you tell me, because don't assume that I know, because I don't.

[Andrea Canning]

Murdoch's defense team has already filed several pretrial motions which were brought up at this hearing. What are they asking for?

[Sue Simpson]

So the defense has requested a change of venue. They also asked that Murdoch be allowed to wear civilian clothes and to be unshackled when he appears in Front of

[Andrea Canning]

the jury, we learned that the defense is planning on calling eight new expert witnesses and asked the judge for access to some of the evidence from the investigation.

[Sue Simpson]

They did. They want access to DNA evidence recovered from under Maggie's fingernails. Back in the day, investigators determined that this DNA belonged to an unknown, unrelated man. So they want to find out everything they can about that DNA.

[Andrea Canning]

Now, it may turn out to be, you know, innocuous. We don't know, but it's worth looking into.

[Sue Simpson]

The defense told the judge they'd cover the cost of this independent DNA testing. And the judge had something to say about that.

[Judge Deborah McCaslin]

I'm gonna let you pay for it.

[Maggie (voice in story)]

Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

And such.

[Maggie (voice in story)]

And such.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. A lighter moment. The judge did not rule on any of these motions at this hearing, but she did put a tentative date on the calendar for the retrial, which is a big deal.

[Sue Simpson]

That's right. April 5, 2027.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. Speaking of trial dates, in New York, we have an update in Luigi Mangione's federal case. He is accused of gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson back in 2024 and faces several charges, including a state murder charge and federal charges. He has pleaded not guilty to all of them. Sue. This week, Mangione made a brief court appearance for his federal proceedings. What happened there?

[Sue Simpson]

Well, Andrea, according to a court official, on Monday, Mangione appeared 30 minutes late. He apparently got stuck in a courthouse elevator.

[Maggie (voice in story)]

Okay.

[Sue Simpson]

Yep. And he remained shackled as building engineers freed him from the elevator. And when he finally walked into court, he walked in through the entrance that's reserved for the judge. When the hearing finally got underway, Andrea, the judge made a big announcement that she'd be pushing back his federal trial date from this November to January 25, 2027.

[Andrea Canning]

Do we know why, Sue?

[Sue Simpson]

Well, she said a November date would be impossible. Her word? Because of Mangione's state trial, which is scheduled to start in September. She said the defense can't go through with jury selection for the federal trial while the state trial is in process.

[Andrea Canning]

Sue, Last week, we found out that Mangione might be in talks about taking a plea deal in his federal case. That's according to what sources familiar with the matter told our New York affiliate, wnbc. What happened with that?

[Sue Simpson]

Apparently, those talks fell apart. That doesn't mean that a plea deal is off the table entirely. A plea deal could still be considered right up until Mangione's trial date.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, this next update, I have to say, completely caught me off guard.

[Sue Simpson]

Yeah, I bet.

[Andrea Canning]

News about Nicholas Oliverdian. From Utah. Nicholas. This was the international con man who faked his own death in 2020 before fleeing to Scotland to evade rape charges overseas. He took up a new identity as a British orphan named Arthur Knight. I confronted him about his identity in one of my most memorable DATELINE interviews. What do you say to. To someone who believes that. That you are Nicholas OliverIandian?

[Nate Eaton]

I am Andrea. I am not Nicholas Ale. I do not make this clear.

[Andrea Canning]

Nicholas was extradited from Scotland, brought back to Utah last year to stand trial for the rape charges against him. So there were two separate trials. Remind us about those.

[Sue Simpson]

In August 2025, Andrea, a jury found Nicholas guilty of raping his former fiance. He was sentenced to five years to life. And then in September 2025, a separate jury found Nicholas guilty of raping his former ex, and he was sentenced to five years to life as well for that.

[Andrea Canning]

So this is where my jaw drops. Sue Last week, news broke that Nicholas died. What happened?

[Sue Simpson]

Yeah, according to a press release from the Utah Department of Corrections, they said that Nicholas died from complications of an existing medical condition after choosing to discontinue medical treatment. We don't know, Andrea, what that medical condition was. He was only 38 years old.

[Andrea Canning]

So that is it for Nicholas Oliverdian.

[June Diane Rayfield]

Wow.

[Andrea Canning]

That was a long saga, that story. Sue, thank you so much for these updates.

[Sue Simpson]

Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

For our final story this week, we are joined by a very special guest, someone you might recognize from your favorite TV shows like Netflix's Grace and Frankie.

[June Diane Rayfield]

That was a joke, huh? He's funny.

[Andrea Canning]

Or maybe from her podcast, how did this get made? And the deep dive this movie, I

[June Diane Rayfield]

truly believe was like the cultural reset that this podcast needed.

[Andrea Canning]

June Diane Rayfield is not only a successful actress and podcaster, she is also a keen Dateline watcher. She's here today to talk about her favorite cases, plus her role in the new Legally Blonde prequel series called Elle, available on Amazon Prime Video. June, thanks for coming on the podcast.

[June Diane Rayfield]

I'm thrilled to be here and talk to you.

[Andrea Canning]

Likewise. And we have to say for our listeners, you are dressed in true Legally Blonde fashion with a lovely pink St. John. St. John suit. It's so Elle Woods. Even though your mom.

[June Diane Rayfield]

It is very Elle woods coated. But Elle got her fashion sense from somewhere. That's what you're gonna find out about in the prequel series. A lot of it, if I may, came from Eva Woods. So awesome.

[Andrea Canning]

All right, so as we said, you're a big Dateline fan. How did you become interested in true crime?

[June Diane Rayfield]

You know, I Think I just started. I started just watching the show and I loved it. And I, I think so many women are drawn to the show, to be quite honest.

[Andrea Canning]

True.

[June Diane Rayfield]

There is something about listening to these stories that are told with such humanity and such empathy for the victims and their families where I think we're kind of getting back some agency and learning and understanding what red flags were and how we could prevent it. But it is actually, I think, no surprise that women have really latched onto this genre.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, they have. And also I think because so many of the cases involve men taking the lives of women, it is nice at the end of our datelines, most datelines, to see them, you know, have their comeuppance that they're going to prison justice. So you previously moderated a panel at south by Southwest with my fabulous colleagues Keith and Josh.

[June Diane Rayfield]

It was an incredible experience. It felt. It was like the Beatles were there. People were going crazy for them.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, people love Josh and Keith.

[June Diane Rayfield]

Yes, they do. I mean, they are. I have to say that one of the things I walked away with was both of them. But I specifically remember Josh talking about just how much of his time was spent just on a day to day following up with these stories, just staying in touch with these families and victims. And I thought that was so beautiful.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, we really do stay in touch with the people we interview and we'll do updates on shows and we'll also do. We have a podcast called after the Verdict where we check in with people.

[Joy Bauer]

I love it.

[Andrea Canning]

And I'm generally a ball of tears at the end.

[June Diane Rayfield]

I love hearing those stories because it does make you reflect on all you have and how, you know, how people can overcome such tragedy and to actually give back and prevent it. It's always so special to hear about.

[Andrea Canning]

Are there any true crime cases you're following right now or interested in?

[June Diane Rayfield]

Oh, gosh. Well, I'm absolutely following the Luigi Mangioni case.

[Andrea Canning]

We just did that on Dateline.

[June Diane Rayfield]

I'm just fascinated by that case and who he. I'm surprised at the recent development which I learned about on, on your podcast, about his plea and, and how he's going about it and the defense rather.

[Andrea Canning]

And.

[Xfinity Advertiser]

Right. He.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, yeah, he flip flopped that his defense team on, you know, the psychiatric defense and now it's.

[June Diane Rayfield]

Yeah, so I'm, I'm following that one very closely.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so let's talk about your newest project. I know a lot of people were really sad when Grace and Frankie ended back in 2022, but I am a massive Legally Blonde fan. My Daughter's embarrassed by this. I named her my daughter Elle, after Elle Woods.

[Dylan Dreyer]

I love that.

[Andrea Canning]

So there you go.

[June Diane Rayfield]

And Reese talks about that a lot, where she meets women and they've.

[Andrea Canning]

There's a lot of elves, there's a lot of Els.

[June Diane Rayfield]

But that's so beautiful because. And there's also real data on how many women went to law school after.

[Alexis Rivas]

Oh, I love that.

[June Diane Rayfield]

After seeing this movie, I wish I did.

[Sue Simpson]

Really.

[June Diane Rayfield]

Kind of. I'm kind of blown away by the cultural impact this character has had. And you get to certainly find out in the series how she became who she is. And it's really cool to see because I think most women feel like we didn't just arrive confident, successful, whatever.

[Coca Cola Announcer]

No.

[June Diane Rayfield]

Heck, no. Okay. There's. There are other women who, who helped us along the way, who challenged us, maybe who. Who didn't believe in us, maybe in their experiences and circumstances that got us there. So it's really, it's a very special series.

[Andrea Canning]

And I noticed in the trailer that El does a little bit of sleuthing.

[June Diane Rayfield]

Yes. She's got a case. She's, you know, there are some similar storylines. I think if you're a fan of the movie. There's so much connective tissue from the movie to the TV show, and it also becomes its own thing, too, so. Which is really nice.

[Andrea Canning]

I'm so excited. And you are the perfect person to play her mom.

[June Diane Rayfield]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

And if anyone wants to watch my version of the Bend and Snap, I did it with the original delivery man. You can go to my Instagram. I did it with Bruce Thomas, who played Jennifer Coolidge's you know, love interest. You can go to my Instagram and watch my Bend and Snap. June, thank you for being here, and we're so excited for your new project.

[June Diane Rayfield]

I really love the work you all do, so it's. It's a total honor to be here.

[Andrea Canning]

That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. But if you want to check out after the verdict, subscribe to Dateline Premium. In our latest episode, Keith Morrison catches up with Aya Altantawi, who he interviewed for the Shadow in the Window, his story about the murder of Aya's mother at the hands of her older brother. They talk about what family means now to Aya and how she's one step closer to pursuing her dream of becoming a lawyer. Coming up this Friday on Dateline, we've got a classic Josh episode for you. It starts with one of the most intense 911 calls we've ever heard on Dateline.

[Maggie (voice in story)]

This is her Toyota transfer. She's extremely out of breath. She sounds like she's running and she's crying, saying she needs the police. She needs the police.

[Andrea Canning]

Make sure to watch out of the Darkness Friday at 10, 9 Central on NBC. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins, Caroline Casey and Keani Reed. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone Groth and Aria Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Kurloff Production and fact checking help by Yana Johnson. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty, Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline. Thanks everybody.

[Maggie (voice in story)]

See you later.

[Joy Bauer]

July means you're halfway through the year, but there's still time to reach your 2026 wellness goals, with half off an annual subscription to the Start Today app. Hi, everyone. Hey everyone. I'm Joy Bauer, the Today Show's nutrition expert. And as part of the Start Today family, we offer easy to follow meal and fitness plans. And we support you with simple, realistic tools that keep you inspired. To reach your goals. Go to today.comstart and download now because it's never too late to Start Today.

[Laura Jarrett]

Subscription automatically renews each year at $65.99 plus taxes and fees until canceled. Offer ends July 31, 2026. Price is subject to change. Visit today. Com start for full offer terms and details.