A woman allegedly kills her fifth husband. A hookah bar owner on trial again. Plus, a Dateline LIVE preview

Summary

Dateline: True Crime Weekly – September 25, 2025

Episode Focus: "A woman allegedly kills her fifth husband. A hookah bar owner on trial again. Plus, a Dateline LIVE preview."
Host: Andrea Canning (NBC News)
Guests/Contributors: Rachel White, Brittany Thom, Mario, Dennis, Keith, Lester, others

---

Overview

In this episode, Andrea Canning and the Dateline team explore three major true crime stories making headlines:

1. The upcoming trial of Sarah Hartsfield, accused of murdering her fifth husband in Texas, whose history with mysterious and violent incidents is under scrutiny.
2. The retrial of Boulos Paul Zumat, a California hookah bar owner, after his murder conviction was overturned due to newfound evidence and testimony.
3. A rapid-fire roundup covering updates on high-profile cases (Rex Heuerman, Barry Morphew, Karen Reed) and a preview of “Dateline LIVE” in Nashville.

---

I. The Murder Trial of Sarah Hartsfield

[01:41–08:57]

Key Points & Timeline

• Case Summary:
  Sarah Hartsfield, set to stand trial in Chambers County, Texas, is accused of poisoning her fifth husband, Joseph Hartsfield, in January 2023. The investigation was spurred when paramedics questioned Sarah’s account of Joseph’s medical emergency and a nurse alerted police with suspicions of poisoning.

• Red Flags and Background:

  • Joseph and Sarah married only three months after meeting.
  • Relationship troubles surfaced:
    • Sarah called Joseph a “nightmare” (Dec 2022) and planned to end the relationship ([04:35], Rachel White).
    • Joseph reportedly asked a family member if he could stay with them, planning divorce, days before his death ([04:53], Rachel White).
    • Joseph’s family had warned investigators that Sarah might harm him.
  • Social media activity:
    • Sarah posted: “Honey, I didn’t marry you just to bury you.” ([05:17], Rachel White)
    • She publicly blamed Joseph’s health, while Joseph’s family suspected her.
  • Autopsy revealed Joseph died from insulin complications. Investigators discovered multiple insulin pens and accused Sarah of ignoring glucose alarms.

• Sarah’s Troubling Past:

  • 2018: Fatally shot fiancé David Bragg, claimed self-defense – not charged ([07:11], Rachel White).
  • 2021: Ex-husband accused Sarah of plotting to kill his new wife (denied; not charged).
  • **Other ex-boyfriend's house burned down after breakup; arson ruled accidental, but suspicions linger ([06:27], Rachel White).

• Upcoming Trial:

  • Jury selection set for September 29th.
  • Prosecutors plan to call witnesses from her past, including ex-husbands and possibly her children ([08:33], Rachel White).
  • Reopened investigation into David Bragg’s shooting ([07:53], Andrea Canning / [08:02], Rachel White).
  • Emotional impact anticipated for Sarah’s family ([08:33], Rachel White).
  • Sarah pleads not guilty to first-degree murder.

Notable Quotes

• “She told him to take better care of his health and wrote, ‘Honey, I didn’t marry you just to bury you.’”
  — Rachel White ([05:17])
• “Many of the men felt that they were in danger...it doesn’t seem like she had many cordial breakups.”
  — Rachel White ([06:27])
• “Her kids…it’s going to be a very emotional trial and one that I’m sure they’re looking forward to putting behind them.”
  — Rachel White ([08:33])

---

II. Retrial of Boulos Paul Zumat – The Hookah Bar Murder Case

[11:38–18:50]

Case Background

• Incident:
  In October 2009, Paul Zumat returned to his burning home. Inside, the body of his girlfriend, Jennifer Skipsey, was discovered. Investigation found Jennifer was strangled before the fire, and arson was determined ([13:21], Brittany Thom).
• Relationship History:
  • Known for domestic violence reports and restraining orders; Jennifer had received threatening calls in the months prior ([13:50], Brittany Thom).
  • Despite a party thrown for Paul the night before, the couple had fought, and Jennifer threatened to file charges against him ([14:38], Brittany Thom).

First Trial (2011)

• Conviction:
  Paul convicted of murder and arson, sentenced to 33 years ([15:40], Andrea Canning).
• Defense:
  • Represented by Mark Geragos.
  • Maintained his innocence and presented an alibi: at his hookah lounge during the fire, with security camera footage as support ([15:17]–[15:40]).

Why A Retrial?

• Overturned Conviction:
  After 14 years, a federal judge ruled Paul’s trial was tainted by false evidence:
  • Security Footage Discrepancy:
    • Prosecution claimed Paul arrived at hookah lounge eight minutes after fire (tight window), but new grainy footage shows he may have arrived earlier, shrinking the possible crime window ([16:13–17:22], Brittany Thom).
    • “The federal says the prosecution misrepresented the evidence at trial.”
  • Fabricated Phone Evidence:
    • Jennifer received threatening calls from a blocked number, believed to be Paul.
    • New testimony from friend Roy Endeman: Jennifer asked him to make the calls to bolster her restraining order request. Prosecutors were unaware at the time; federal judge ruled this material enough to order a new trial ([17:24–17:56], Brittany Thom).

Retrial Status and Looking Ahead

• Prosecution using much the same evidence and witnesses.
• Roy Endeman to return as a defense witness to address the fabricated calls.
• It’s uncertain if Zumat will testify; “his testimony was not very helpful to his own defense” at his first trial ([18:31], Brittany Thom).
• Defense expected to present a concise case, just three days.

Memorable Moments

• “The federal judge says the prosecution misrepresented the evidence at trial. And he also found Garagos did not do his client any favors by failing to adequately review the security footage.”
  — Brittany Thom ([17:22])
• “Jennifer had asked [her friend] to call her from a blocked number to make it look like she was receiving blocked calls from Paul.”
  — Brittany Thom ([17:24])

---

III. Dateline Roundup: Updates on High-Profile Cases

[21:51–27:05]
Panel: Andrea Canning & Mario

A. Gilgo Beach Serial Killings – Rex Heuerman

• Latest Developments:

  • Major hearing: Judge denies defense DNA motion; all DNA evidence admissible ([22:23], Mario).
  • “The judge has denied that motion. And so now we know definitively all of the DNA will be admissible in this trial.” — Mario ([22:23])
  • District Attorney has turned over 120 terabytes of evidence – an enormous volume ([22:58], Mario).
  • No trial date set; more motions incoming, with a deadline of January 13, 2026 ([23:24], Mario).
  • Impact of delays on victims and accused’s families: "The longer it drags, the longer they have to basically have their lives on hold." — Dennis (attorney for ex-wife) ([24:10])

• Consolidation:

  • Judge denies motion to sever the trials; will be one consolidated trial ([24:33], Andrea/Mario).

B. Barry Morphew – Colorado Murder Case

• Highlights:
  • Suzanne Morphew vanished in 2020.
  • Barry Morphew, her husband, was arrested for murder a second time this year.
  • Released after posting a $3 million bond, under strict bail conditions: surrender passport, can’t leave Colorado, must use real name ([24:59], Mario).
  • “He must also only use the name Barry Morphew, which is significant because…he was living hundreds of miles away in Arizona under another name.” — Mario ([25:24])
  • Morphew’s next court date: November 3.

C. Karen Reed – Massachusetts Civil Suit

• Background:
  • Karen Reed was found not guilty of killing her police officer boyfriend but convicted on drunk driving.
  • Now faces a civil wrongful death lawsuit from his family, plus two Canton bars ([25:49], Mario).
  • Reed plans to countersue several witnesses, local police, and both the McCabe and Albert families, alleging a broader conspiracy and civil rights violations ([26:24], Andrea/Mario).

Panel Tone

• Emphasizes the emotional toll drawn-out legal proceedings have on families and communities.
• Quick, journalistic updates with pointed follow-up questions from Andrea.

---

IV. Dateline LIVE Preview – Nashville Event

[27:10–31:39]

What’s Happening?

• The Dateline team teases their first live event, with correspondents (including Keith, Dennis, Lester, Blaine) and celebrity moderators Annette O'Toole, Michael McKean, and Holly Robinson Peete.
• Event to feature:
  • In-depth interviews with memorable case figures (e.g., Colby, son of Lori Vallow).
  • Investigators/detectives discuss cold cases and investigative techniques.
  • An expert on eyewitness identification and the challenge of memory in criminal cases.
  • Behind-the-scenes Dateline stories and "lore."
  • Audience Q&A.

Memorable Quotes

• “We'll talk to an expert about the strength of eyewitness testimony in criminal trials…but this is also going to be an opportunity for us to visit some, let's just say, Dateline lore.”
  — Dennis ([29:16])

• “I always say that I’ve been a Dateline viewer longer than I’ve been a Dateline correspondent.”
  — Andrea Canning ([29:42])

• Anticipation and excitement about being together, audience energy, and music in Nashville:

  • “I love Nashville. Because it’s a music town. And as you know, I'm a music [person].” — Dennis ([31:01])

---

V. Episode Highlights & Closing Remarks

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Wild story, Rachel. Look forward to hearing more about this one.”
  — Andrea Canning on Sarah Hartsfield ([08:49])
• “This saga continues on and on and on.”
  — Mario, on Karen Reed ([27:02])
• “Travel safe.”
  — Dennis, closing the team conversation ([31:58])

Up Next:

• Season premiere tease: "The Phantom" airing this Friday; an episode focused on detectives being misled by a suspect ([32:24]).

---

Summary Table

| Segment | Topic | Key Speaker(s) | Timestamps | |----------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------|-----------------------|-----------------| | I. Sarah Hartsfield Trial | Woman accused of killing 5th husband | Andrea, Rachel | 01:41–08:57 | | II. Paul Zumat Retrial | Hookah bar owner’s overturned conviction | Andrea, Brittany | 11:38–18:50 | | III. Dateline Roundup | Gilgo Beach, Morphew, Reed | Andrea, Mario | 21:51–27:05 | | IV. Dateline LIVE Preview | Live Nashville Event Teaser | Andrea, team | 27:10–31:39 |

---

This summary captures the episode’s engaging stories and energetic group dynamic, blending detailed crime updates with behind-the-scenes insights and the Dateline team's signature tone.

Transcript

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[Andrea Canning]

Hey guys, it's Blaine. You're listening in to dateline's morning meeting. It's a big week. Our team is catching up on breaking crime news.

[Rachel White]

There's ring footage.

[Andrea Canning]

This is all on camera.

[Brittany Thom]

Is this going to throw a wrench.

[Andrea Canning]

In the whole trial?

[Brittany Thom]

Is it going to be a delay?

[Mario]

We figured this was going to happen.

[Andrea Canning]

Welcome to DATELINE True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's September 25th, and here's what's on our docket. In California, after serving almost 14 years in prison, a man convicted of murdering his girlfriend and setting their house on fire gets a new trial.

[Brittany Thom]

The federal judge says the prosecution misrepresented the evidence at trial.

[Andrea Canning]

In Dateline Roundup, a judge makes a critical ruling in the case of the alleged Gilgo beach serial killer Rex Heuerman. Karen Reed is back in court, this time for her civil case. And Barry Morphew, the man charged with his wife's murder for a second time, gets some big news.

[Mario]

Barry Murphy was released after posting a $3 million bond.

[Andrea Canning]

Plus, I'm joined by my fellow dateline correspondents. We'll be in Nashville this week for our first ever DATELINE Live event, and we're going to give you a sneak preview.

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Everybody getting together will be a wonderful thing.

[Andrea Canning]

Before all that, we're heading to a courthouse in Chambers County, Texas, where a woman accused of poisoning her fifth husband is heading to trial. On January 7, 2023, Sarah Hartsfield called 911 in a panic from her home in Beach City, Texas. She told investigators that her diabetic husband, Joseph had experienced a crash in his blood sugar overnight. Paramedics rushed Joseph to the hospital where doctors noticed something strange. His medical condition didn't seem to match the story Sarah was telling them. A nurse made a call of her own to the police to report her suspicion that Joseph had been poisoned. Days later, he was dead. A detective began taking a closer look at Sarah and quickly learned that she was no stranger to law enforcement. In 2018, she came under scrutiny from police after fatally shooting her fiance. She said she shot him in self defense. In 2021, her ex husband accused her of plotting to murder his new wife, something Sarah denies. But Sarah was never charged with any crimes until three weeks after Joseph's mysterious death. The detective arrested Sarah for his murder. She has pleaded not guilty to first degree murder. Next week, Sarah's trial will begin and prosecutors have announced their plans to call witnesses from her past. DATELINE field producer Rachel White, who has crossed the country investigating Sarah's case, is here to bring us up to speed. Hey, Rachel.

[Rachel White]

Hi, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Rachel, to start, tell us about Sarah and Joseph's relationship.

[Rachel White]

Sure. So they had gotten married really quickly after meeting. They had only known each other for about three months and that wedding happened in February of 2022.

[Andrea Canning]

Were there any signs that the relationship was in trouble?

[Rachel White]

Yeah. A friend that we spoke to shared some messages that she had back and forth with Sarah in December, right before Joseph ended up dying, where Sarah had called him a nightmare. And she also told that same friend that she had planned to end the relationship.

[Andrea Canning]

Did Joseph want out of the relationship, too? Were they at that point?

[Rachel White]

Yeah. So according to a search Warrant affidavit, on January 3, 2023, just a couple of days before Joseph was rushed to the hospital, he had actually asked a family member if he could stay with them because he was planning to divorce Sarah. Other members of Joseph's family also told investigators that they had voiced their concerns that Sarah might try to harm him.

[Andrea Canning]

What was Sarah telling people in the days after he died?

[Rachel White]

So, so she was always very active on Facebook and she made a social media post a day after Joseph died. And it said from the moment she shared the news of Joseph's mysterious illness that his family went on a witch hunt and pointed the finger of blame at Sarah instead of accepting the truth that his death was from his own poor health. And she says she told him to take better care of his health and wrote, honey, I didn't marry you just to bury you.

[Andrea Canning]

My. So then about a month after Joseph died, there's news of an arrest. Sarah Hartsfield was indicted for his murder.

[Rachel White]

That's right. And Joseph's autopsy comes back. And a medical examiner had ruled that he died from complications with insulin. And investigators accused Sarah of ignoring the alarms from the glucose monitoring app on her phone. And from a search of the Hartsfields house, investigators were able to find 10 insulin pens by Joseph's bedside. But it was a close examination of Sarah's past that really started to raise alarm bells for investigators.

[Andrea Canning]

Rachel, as part of dateline's reporting on Sarah, you spoke with some husbands, a former boyfriend. What did you learn?

[Rachel White]

Yeah. So many of the men felt that they were in danger. Leading up to the end of those relationships, it doesn't seem like she had many cordial breakups. One of Sarah's ex boyfriends alleges that after breaking up, his home went up in flames. Investigators ruled that the fire was caused by faulty wiring. And her third husband, a man named Christopher Donahue, claimed that Sarah and her fourth husband were plotting to kill Christopher's new wife. And this was all according to an affidavit in support of a request for a restraining order.

[Andrea Canning]

And we should mention that Sarah told DATELINE she denied plotting to kill Christopher's new wife. But tell us a little bit more about the shooting death of her former fiance, Rachel. His name was David Bragg.

[Rachel White]

We learned that Sarah told investigators that she and David would argue. And at the time of the shooting, she claimed that she went back to the couple's house and David pointed a gun at her. She had brought two guns with her to the house for protection, she said. And she claimed she fired blindly in self defense, hitting and killing David.

[Andrea Canning]

Initially, David's death was being investigated as a homicide, but no criminal charges were ever filed against Sarah. In fact, investigators who examined the scene said that the evidence was consistent with her story. Right, Rachel?

[Rachel White]

They did. And witnesses even provided statements that seemed to support Sarah's story. And In January of 2019, the county attorney announced that Sarah was justified in firing at Bragg in self defense.

[Andrea Canning]

After Sarah was indicted for the murder of Joseph Hartsfield investigators announced they were going to reopen their investigation into her former fiance's death.

[Rachel White]

Yeah, so they've reopened it and are looking into it again. We don't really know the status of it or where it stands at this moment.

[Andrea Canning]

So Sarah Hartsfield is set to go to trial in Texas for the murder of Joseph Hartsfield next week. And the big question here, will prosecutors bring up Sarah's past and are they allowed to bring up her past?

[Rachel White]

I think that's definitely in the cards.

[Andrea Canning]

So, jury selection expected to start September 29th. Rachel, any insight into who will be testifying, if Sarah herself will take the stand?

[Rachel White]

I'm not sure if Sarah will take the stand, but I would imagine that her ex husbands will be called, that her kids will be called to testify. I think that for her family, her kids, um, it's going to be a very emotional trial and one that I'm sure they're looking forward to putting behind them.

[Andrea Canning]

Wild story, Rachel. Look forward to hearing more about this one. Thank you so much for bringing us this complicated story.

[Rachel White]

Thank you for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

Coming up, a California man accused of murdering his girlfriend gets a new trial. We'll tell you about the security video at the heart of the case.

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[Andrea Canning]

On the evening of October 15, 2009, hookah lounge owner Boulos Paul Zumat returned to his Palo Alto, California, home to find it up in flames. He shared the house with his girlfriend, Jennifer Skipsey, who was nowhere to be found. Firefighters were on the scene in minutes. Paul could barely get his words out when he spoke to Jennifer's parents from a police interview room.

[Brittany Thom]

He's going to fight him.

[Andrea Canning]

They're not telling me anything. Not long after, a detective broke the news to Paul that they'd found a dead body inside the house. It was Jennifer. But in the days that followed, investigators learned something disturbing. Jennifer was dead before the fire even began. She'd been strangled. Paul quickly came under suspicion, especially after police uncovered holes in his alibi and fractures in his relationship with Jennifer. In 2011, he went on trial for murder and arson and was found guilty on both charges. But now, over a decade later, Paul is back in front of a jury after a federal judge ruled his initial conviction was based on false evidence. Could Paul, who has always maintained his innocence, walk free? Here to bring us up to speed on the latest is DATELINE producer Brittany Thom. Hi, Brittany.

[Brittany Thom]

Hey, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Tell us a bit more about Paul Zumat. And Jennifer Skipsey.

[Brittany Thom]

Well, Paul and Jennifer, they were a young, popular IT couple in Palo Alto. Jennifer was a real estate agent. Paul was originally from Jordan. Then they'd been dating for two years.

[Andrea Canning]

So back in October 2009, Paul said he was out running errands and learned his house was in flames. After Jennifer's body was found, investigators went pretty Quickly to arson and then to murder.

[Brittany Thom]

Right, Right. When firefighters and investigators entered that home, they were struck by the overwhelming smell of gasoline. And they also located a gasoline can next to Jennifer's body. So that was enough for them to determine this fire was likely set intentionally. Then when the autopsy rose, Jennifer actually had died hours before the fire was set. Her cause of death, strangulation.

[Andrea Canning]

Wow. So once authorities determined this was a homicide, what made them zero in on Paul?

[Brittany Thom]

It turns out there were some ups and downs in Paul and Jennifer's relationship and actually were quite serious and documented. There were various restraining orders and domestic violence reports. And two months before her death, Jennifer had been getting threatening phone calls from a block number she believed they were from Paul. Jennifer had told authorities that Paul had been making death threats to her and even filed for an emergency restraining order. In his interview with police, Paul actually mentioned that pow. Wpd. They put an emergency restraining order on me in August because she said, paul.

[Andrea Canning]

Threaten me, blah, blah, blah.

[Brittany Thom]

And I said, no. We had these problems, me and her. After that incident, Paul was ordered by a judge to attend anger management classes.

[Andrea Canning]

Even though the relationship was rocky, the night before the fire, Jennifer threw Paul a party.

[Brittany Thom]

That's right. Based on the photos that we've seen, it looked like a beautiful celebration with cake, and everyone was having a great time. But apparently later that night, the two had gotten in a fight, and Jennifer went home alone, and they exchanged these, like, angry text messages. Paul told police when he went home, they actually made up. But text messages continued the following morning and showed that the couple began to argue again. And things really escalated to a point where Jennifer threatened to file charges against Paul.

[Andrea Canning]

All right, so we fast forward to trial in 2011, and prosecutors present all this evidence against Paul. What was his defense?

[Brittany Thom]

Well, Paul actually hired famous attorney Mark Garagos, who you may have heard of.

[Andrea Canning]

I just interviewed him for the Arcome special.

[Brittany Thom]

Exactly. So they had a great defense team. And Paul actually took the stand in his own defense. He said it's true that him and Jennifer did have a volatile relationship, but he didn't kill her. He also said he had a strong alibi, and he said he was at his hookah lounge the time the fire was set. And there are security videos to support this.

[Andrea Canning]

The jury didn't believe him, so he was convicted and sentenced to 33 years. So, Brittany, this is where this big twist comes in. More than 14 years later, Paul Zumat is now back in court for a new trial. How did his team convince the judge?

[Brittany Thom]

Paul maintained his innocence over the years. His defense team has submitted various petitions. All were rejected until 2020. When his petition finally made it to federal court. Paul argued he should either be released or retried based on inclusion of false evidence in his first trial. And the federal judge agreed.

[Andrea Canning]

And what false evidence are they referring to?

[Brittany Thom]

There were two major pieces. First was that security camera footage that shows Paul at his hookah lounge. Remember, Paul's alibi was that he was at his hookah lounge, therefore could not have committed the crime. The fire was first reported at their house at 6:39pm by a passerby. The prosecution used security video from Paul's hookah shop to show Paul arrived at his lounge at 6:47. Paul had to make it to the hookah lounge after allegedly setting the house ablaze. The lead detective in the case to testify takes anywhere from like 4 to 10 minutes to drive from the couple's cottage to the hookah lounge. But Paul's defense team said they found another video which shows Paul arriving at his shop as early as 6:45pm making this window to start the fire much, much tighter. Six minutes instead of eight. Though I've heard this video is quite grainy and it's hard to make out who is in the video. The federal says the prosecution misrepresented the evidence at trial. And he also found Garagos did not do his client any favors by failing to adequately review the security footage.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, and you said there were. There's more, right?

[Brittany Thom]

Yes. The second piece is related to those threatening calls Jennifer said she got from a blocked number two months before her death. After Paul's conviction, investigators interviewed a friend of Jennifer's named Roy Endeman, who told them that Jennifer had asked him to call her from a blocked number to make it look like she was receiving blocked calls from Paul. She thought it would bolster her case to get the restraining order. At the time of the trial, both the prosecutor did not know those block calls had been fabricated by Roy Endeman. The federal judge says that was enough to grant him a new trial.

[Andrea Canning]

Brittany, do we know what they're doing differently this time around? And will there be any new witnesses?

[Brittany Thom]

So right now we're still in the prosecution's case, and so far it's generally been the same evidence and the same witnesses. One thing we are monitoring is when Jennifer's friend Roy Endeman will take the stand. We learned he is a defense witness this time. I believe he testified for the prosecution the first time around. And he will have to address those fake phone calls he made to Jennifer.

[Andrea Canning]

From a block number when the defense takes its turn, do we know if Paul Zumat will take the stand since he did it did take the stand at his first trial?

[Brittany Thom]

That remains to be seen. Defense will start next week, but we've heard their case will probably only take 3 days maximum based on the reporting from the last trial. His testimony was not very helpful to his own defense and given that we've heard that it's only a three day long defense, it sounds like he may not take the stand.

[Andrea Canning]

We will be sure to follow along. Thanks so much Brittany for this update.

[Brittany Thom]

Thanks Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup, a major hearing for Rex Heuermann, the man charged with seven murders along Gilgo Beach. Karen Reed is back in court for the wrongful death lawsuit filed against her and an alleged murderer is out of custody in Colorado. Plus, we've got my fellow correspondents to talk about the Dateline Live event in Nashville this weekend.

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[National Debt Relief Representative]

Confronting high credit card debt can feel scary. But the good news is if you owe $10,000 or more in credit card debt, financial relief options are now available. National Debt Relief is currently offering debt relief designed to reduce what you owe fast. Tracking your way to being debt free. If you qualify for debt relief, you may be able to pay back significantly less than what you owe and save thousands of dollars. Imagine only paying one low monthly program payment you can afford and saving money as you become debt free. National Debt Relief has already helped bring debt relief to over 550,000 US consumers, earning thousands of five star reviews and an A rating with the Better Business Bureau. You're stronger than your credit card debt. Take the first step and visit nationaldebtrelief.com to see what debt relief you may qualify for. That's nationaldebtrelief.com.

[Andrea Canning]

Welcome back. Joining me for this week's roundup is DATELINE producer Mary. Welcome back to the show, Mario.

[Mario]

Thanks for having me, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

All right. For our first story, we're headed to Long island to a story that you and I both know well, there was a major hearing on Tuesday in the case of alleged Gilgo beach serial killer Rex Heuerman. He has pleaded not guilty to the murders of seven women. Mario, what's the news out of this latest hearing? Last time you were on the podcast, we talked about DNA and how critical it is to this entire case.

[Mario]

That's right, Andrea. And that's right where we pick back up again in this hearing, we knew that the schedule was for the judge to rule on a couple defense motions. One was a DNA motion based on a kind of obscure health standard because the lab that did the DNA isn't licensed in New York. Well, the judge has denied that motion. And so now we know definitively all of the DNA will be admissible in this trial.

[Rachel White]

Okay.

[Andrea Canning]

And you also found out that there is a lot of discovery documentation to go through.

[Mario]

You're right, Andrea. It was revealed by District Attorney Ray Tierney that they've turned over 120 terabytes of information. So for math nerds out there, there's one estimate that says 1 terabyte of information is approximately 6.5 million pages if you printed them out as Word documents.

[Andrea Canning]

And so is that going to affect possibly a trial date? Where are we at with that?

[Mario]

We thought we might get a trial date on Tuesday and we did not. In fact, the default defense said because there's so much information to go through, they know that they will be filing more motions. And the judge allowed them until January 13th of next year to get those motions filed.

[Andrea Canning]

We know how hard this is on families when these pretrial hearings and all of it just keep dragging on and on. And do we know how they're doing?

[Mario]

You know, it's difficult for everybody. It's difficult for the families of the victims. And let's not forget, it's difficult for Rex Herman to have a wife and children and they were there yesterday. We stood in very close proximity in line waiting to get in. And the lawyer for his ex wife, ESA Ella Roop, spoke outside the courtroom on Tuesday and we recorded some of what he had to say.

[Dennis]

The longer it drags, the longer they have to basically have their lives on hold. They cannot move forward. So in July of 2023, I don't think anyone anticipated this taking two and a half, three years to get to this point. And we don't know if it's going to be even finished in 2026.

[Andrea Canning]

Mario the defense also asked the judge to hear a motion involving having these cases possibly severed, these trials.

[Mario]

One ruling on Tuesday was that that will not be the case. It will be one trial.

[Andrea Canning]

For our next story, we are off to Colorado for an update in the case of Barry Morphew. His wife, Suzanne Morphew, disappeared on Mother's Day 2020. And this year he was arrested and charged with her murder a second time after previous charges against him in 2021 were dropped. Barry Morphew has pleaded not guilty. And there is a really big update here.

[Mario]

That's right. Barry Morphew was released after posting a $3 million bond. There are some specific conditions to his bail. The judge said Morphew must surrender his passport. He may not leave Colorado for any reason. And interestingly, the judge said he must also only use the name Barry Morphew, which is significant because you may recall when authorities arrested him in June, they said he was living hundreds of miles away in Arizona under another name, Lee Moore.

[Andrea Canning]

Morphew is due back in Court on November 3rd. And for our last story, we're off to Brockton, Massachusetts, where Karen Reed was back in court this week. She is the woman who was found not guilty earlier this summer of murdering her police officer boyfriend, John o'. Keefe. The state alleged she hit o' Keeffe with her SUV and left him to die in the snow. What was this week's hearing all about?

[Mario]

As you said, Karen Reed was found not guilty of murder, but she was found guilty of lesser offense of drunk driving. And so John o' Keefe's family has now filed a wrongful death civil suit against Karen and two of the local bars in Canton. And it's his wrongful death lawsuit that brought Karen back to court this week for a status hearing.

[Andrea Canning]

Reid's lawyers, of course, Alan Jackson, they have tried to have this wrongful death suit dismissed without any success. In Monday's hearing, they announced Karen's plans to to sue. So Karen herself is going to sue several of the witnesses we discussed while covering her murder trials.

[Mario]

That's right, and the list is long. She plans on suing members of the Massachusetts State Police, including Michael Proctor. You'll remember he's the officer who was fired for sending disparaging texts about Karen to other officers. But this lawsuit also claims her civil rights were violated by those messages and claims that there was a broader conspiracy against her headed by Proctor.

[Andrea Canning]

She also plans on suing both the McCabe and Albert families. DATELINE listeners will remember that the Alberts house is where Karen said she dropped John o' Keefe off for a party the night of his death. And we should say that the McCabes and the Alberts have denied any wrongdoing. This is really incredible, Mario, how this.

[Mario]

Saga continues on and on and on.

[Andrea Canning]

Thank you so much for bringing us all these stories today.

[Mario]

Happy to help, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

For our final segment this week, I have the special treat of chatting with my fellow DATELINE correspondents about something very exciting happening in just a few days. This Sunday, September 28th, we'll all be together in Nashville to present the first ever DATELINE Live event. Thank you for joining me, everyone. I see Blaine, I see Dennis, I see Keith, I see Lester. Hello.

[Mario]

Hello.

[Andrea Canning]

And I should say we are sadly missing our friend Josh Mankiewicz today. He's probably off shopping for a cowboy hat, some cowboy boots, maybe a I don't know. You know, I think he's in Lock Square.

[Advertiser]

Somebody put him in jail overnight. He'll be out in a couple of days.

[Andrea Canning]

What, what kind of pocket square could he wear for Nashville guys?

[Dennis]

Kind of a blue, like, I think it's like a blue denim, right?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, that would be good. That would be good. Okay, let's talk DATELINE Live. One of the things I'm looking forward to is that we're going to talk to some familiar faces, people who have actually been on dateline. Keith, you're going to be talking to someone DATELINE fans will probably be quite familiar with, I would think.

[Advertiser]

So I'll be talking to Colby, who is Lori Valo's son. Lori Valo, of course, being at the center of that really horrific murder story involving her children. And Colby was the one who didn't know what was going on for the longest time and was caught right in the middle of it.

[Andrea Canning]

That's going to be very interesting. And we're going to talk to some experts. Blaine, you and Josh are going to do something really exciting and talk to an investigator and a detective. I am really looking forward to that conversation. Andrea so we're going to talk to them about some of the different tools and techniques that they use to crack the cases, which, of course, is very interesting to all of us as we report our stories. So lots of questions for them about what they do when they hit a dead end, when cases go cold, how they can try and revive that investigation. Fascinating. And Lester, Lester, you are going to be talking to an expert on something that I feel like I would be absolutely terrible at and would fail miserably. Eyewitness identification.

[Dennis]

Yeah. I mean, how well do we remember things? And that's the heart of so many stories we've done on Dateline over the years. You know, where they rely on someone who says, I absolutely saw him. That's the guy sitting there in the gallery. So in this case, we will talk to an expert about the strength of eyewitness testimony in criminal trials. But this is also going to be an opportunity for us to visit some, let's just say, Dateline lore. So that's something to look out for.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. Yeah. Blaine knows all about that since she's joined the team. Absolutely. I mean, I always say that I've been a Dateline viewer longer than I've been a Dateline correspondent.

[National Debt Relief Representative]

Right.

[Andrea Canning]

And so I think that this conversation will be so interesting because this is. What is the secret sauce of Dateline? All of the things that viewers remember. So those interesting interviews, those memorable moments, those conversations with either family members or suspects, killers, con men, we're going to talk about all of those things. And Keith, we're gonna share what goes into making a Dateline.

[Advertiser]

And anecdotes. My gosh, there's so many things have happened in the field.

[Andrea Canning]

We also have some really exciting celebrity hosts lined up to moderate these conversations. Dennis, tell us all about that.

[Dennis]

Yeah, I'm delighted to say that we're gonna have the multi talented actress and singer songwriter Annette o'. Toole, and she's going to be joined by her husband, the great Michael McKean, the singer and actor of. Of Spinal Tap and starred in Better Call Saul. And finally, we're gonna be joined by Holly Robinson Pete, the actress. I'm looking forward to meeting all of those people.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, me too. I love Holly Robinson Pete. She's so much fun. Okay, so this is really cool. We'll also have an audience Q and A where we'll answer all your questions, so make sure to come prepared for that. In the meantime, let me ask each of you, what are you most excited for in Nashville?

[Dennis]

Well, I weigh way in there. I love Nashville. Because it's a music town. And as you know, I'm a music. So I may have to put my hat on and my dark glasses and kind of just work my way through the neighborhood there and some of the bars. But I will not leave without hearing some good music.

[Andrea Canning]

Nice.

[Advertiser]

Well, I'm excited about seeing all you folks. Everybody getting together will be a wonderful thing.

[Dennis]

That is terrific. And in the company of the people who seem to love us the best to actually get in their car and make a long trip to Nashville to come check us out.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. I'm excited to say hi and take lots of selfies. Yeah. And I agree with everything all of you just said. That's my answer.

[Dennis]

Easy answer.

[Brittany Thom]

There you go.

[Andrea Canning]

Looking forward to seeing everyone there. And if you haven't got your tickets yet, there are still some [e-mail] event. You can also find a link in the description of this episode. Thank you guys so much for coming on the podcast. I can't believe I'm going to be seeing you in a few days. This is so great.

[Brittany Thom]

Can't wait.

[Dennis]

See you all there. You guys take care. Travel safe.

[Advertiser]

Nashville, here we come.

[Dennis]

Lester, bring your base.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeehaw. That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. To get ad free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium. Coming up this Friday on Dateline, it's the season premiere. Josh has an all new two hour episode. What happens when a killer leads detectives in the wrong direction?

[Advertiser]

You were on the wrong path the whole time because somebody wanted you on the wrong path the whole time.

[Brittany Thom]

I felt like a puppet.

[Andrea Canning]

Watch the Phantom this Friday at 9, 8 Central on NBC. Thanks for listening. DATELINE True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins and Katie Ferguson. Our associate producer is Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Karloff. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production. Paul Ryan is executive producer. And Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline. All right, see you later.

[Dennis]

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