Alex Murdaugh's murder convictions thrown out. A new search for Kristin Smart. Plus, AI and murder.

Summary

Dateline: True Crime Weekly

Episode: Alex Murdaugh's murder convictions thrown out. A new search for Kristin Smart. Plus, AI and murder.
Date: May 14, 2026
Hosts: Andrea Canning (Dateline Correspondent), with guests including Craig Melvin, Carol Gable, Josh Mankiewicz, Rachel White, Laura Jarrett

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Episode Overview

This week’s Dateline: True Crime Weekly takes on several high-profile stories:

• The South Carolina Supreme Court’s dramatic overturning of Alex Murdaugh’s double murder convictions and what it means for the notorious lawyer’s future.
• Renewed efforts to find the remains of Kristin Smart, nearly three decades after her disappearance.
• How the legal world is grappling with AI’s potential role in violent crimes—including a groundbreaking new lawsuit against OpenAI following a mass shooting. The episode features in-depth reporting by Andrea Canning, exclusive insights from Dateline’s seasoned reporters, and expert legal analysis.

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1. Breaking News: Alex Murdaugh’s Murder Conviction Thrown Out

(Segment starts at [02:23])

Recap of the Case

• Craig Melvin gives a summary:
  • Alec Murdaugh, once a prominent and influential South Carolina lawyer, called 911 in June 2021 to report his wife and son were shot and killed at their home.
  • Investigators and prosecutors didn’t buy his story. He was convicted in March 2023 on strong evidence, including cell phone and vehicle data.
• Quote:
  • “He developed this addiction. He’s a bad dude, but he’s not that bad.” — Craig Melvin ([11:49])

Why Was the Conviction Overturned?

• Immediate appeal focused on the alleged misconduct of court clerk Becky Hill, accused of influencing juror attitudes and basking in the case’s media attention.
• Carol Gable:
  • Becky Hill was accused by the state’s former chief justice of “yielding to the siren call of celebrity.”
• Craig Melvin on Becky Hill's influence:
  • “She would hold court. I mean, it was very much her. It was her courtroom.” ([06:40])
  • Hill’s comment to jurors—“this shouldn’t take us long” ([07:19])—suggested Murdaugh’s guilt and tainted impartial deliberation.
• Supreme Court ruling states that Becky Hill’s actions “placed her fingers on the scales of justice, thereby denying Murdaugh his right to a fair trial by an impartial jury.” ([07:48])

What Comes Next for Murdaugh?

• He remains incarcerated, serving sentences totaling over 60 years for financial crimes.
• The Supreme Court ruled only on Becky Hill’s actions—not on whether financial crimes evidence had been improperly admitted.
• Prosecutors, led by Attorney General Alan Wilson, vow to retry Murdaugh vigorously. The timeline remains uncertain, especially as Wilson is running for governor.
• Murdaugh’s defense team reportedly expected this outcome and continues to assert his innocence.
• Andrea Canning:
  • “He’s not getting out of prison anytime soon.” ([08:19])
• Craig Melvin speculates Murdaugh might not testify if there’s a retrial.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “If the Murdaugh trial was a circus, Andrea, you could make the argument that Becky Hill may have been the ringmaster.” — Craig Melvin ([06:17])
• “No matter how heinous, no matter how overwhelming the evidence, you’re still entitled to a fair trial.” — Mayra Ammon ([03:29])

---

2. The New Search for Kristin Smart

(Segment starts at [15:11])

Case Background

• Kristin Smart vanished Memorial Day weekend, 1996, as a 19-year-old Cal Poly freshman.
• Paul Flores, last seen with her, maintained she went to her dorm and he went his own way. Smart vanished, and Flores showed up with a black eye.
• Quote:
  • “There is the scent or the finding of human decomposition, which was in Paul Flores’s dorm room, which was under Paul Flores's father's deck, and which is underground at Paul Flores’s mom's house. Coincidence? Homicide investigators will tell you that’s not a coincidence.” — Josh Mankiewicz ([22:03])

Renewed Search Effort

• Last week, police returned to the home of Paul’s mother, Susan Flores, in San Luis Obispo County.
  • They dug up her backyard and took soil samples based on witness information.
• Law enforcement:
  • “We’re prepared to go as long as it takes until we either find Kristen, find evidence and are satisfied that everything has been searched.” ([16:21])
  • Recent scientific analysis in 2023 detected human decomposition near Susan’s fence.
• Despite these efforts, authorities have not recovered Kristin’s body. The Smart family remains determined, and the sheriff has stated the investigation will continue.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Her body has never been found. And the Smart family, they have continued to press law enforcement... because they want to bring her home.” — Josh Mankiewicz ([17:05])
• “Once again, there is the scent or the finding of human decomposition.” — Josh Mankiewicz ([22:03])

---

3. Dateline Roundup: Case Updates

(Segment starts at [25:22])

a) Dale Warner Sentenced for Wife’s Murder (Michigan)

• Summary: Dee Warner went missing in 2021. Her body was found in a fertilizer tank on her husband Dale’s property in 2024—beaten and strangled.
• Motivation: Prosecutors cited greed and the threat of divorce/business sale as the motive.
• Family Impact:
  • “My mom's name, Dee Hardy will live in our hearts, in our community for an eternity. But Dale Warner’s name will be gone forever.” — Raquel Bach, Dee’s daughter ([27:08])
  • Dee’s brother, Greg Hardy, emotionally called Dale “a spineless piece of human debris,” prompting the judge's intervention ([27:50])
• Sentence: Dale received 31–70 years in prison ([28:14]), maintaining his innocence.

b) Amber Spradlin Case Delay (Kentucky)

• Amber was found stabbed to death in dentist Dr. Michael McKinney’s home in 2023. Charges filed against his son and others in 2024.
• Significant trial delay due to backlog and volume of forensic evidence—trial scheduled for January 2027 ([29:53]).

c) Disappearance of Lynette Hooker (Bahamas)

• Michigan woman disappeared from a sailboat in April. Husband Brian’s account is under investigation; her daughter suspects foul play.
• U.S. Coast Guard now has the Hookers’ boat but is not releasing additional details.

---

4. Can AI Be Charged with Murder?

(Segment starts at [31:29])

The Florida Mass Shooting Lawsuit

• Tiru Chaba was killed in a 2025 mass shooting at Florida State University.
• Alleged shooter Phoenix Eichner is accused of consulting ChatGPT for weapon advice, logistics about crowded campus locations, and even media impact (“how many people have to die for the media to pay attention”).
• Chaba’s family filed a wrongful death lawsuit not only naming Eichner but also OpenAI (ChatGPT), arguing the AI chatbot acted as a “co-conspirator.”
• Quote:
  • “In this case, ChatGPT became a co-conspirator and not collaborator with a shooter.” — Family's lawyer ([32:23])

Legal and Ethical Debate

• Laura Jarrett (Senior Legal Correspondent):
  • ChatGPT gave step-by-step advice, engaging “in a kind of mind-blowing way.” ([32:55])
  • Raises questions: When is AI assistance criminal? When (and how) should companies intervene?
  • OpenAI’s response: “This is a terrible tragedy, but we are not responsible... all it did was provide factual responses just the way Google would.” ([34:28])
• Canning references another recent case where a Florida murder suspect asked ChatGPT things like “can a knife penetrate a skull?” and “can you bury a body in a trash bag?”
• Laura Jarrett:
  • “If somebody is asking ChatGPT, how do you dispose of a body? Is that for research or is that for murder?” ([35:31])
  • Predicts these AI liability issues will reach trial soon.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “We cannot have AI bots that are advising people on how to kill others. That is wrong and that is dangerous.” — Florida AG ([36:23])
• “That’s going to be up for a jury to decide... I think we’re going to see that within a year.” — Laura Jarrett ([36:38])

---

5. Other Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Craig Melvin:
  • “If the Murdaugh trial was a circus... you could make the argument that Becky Hill may have been the ringmaster.” ([06:17])
• Carol Gable:
  • “When they say we're going to do this quickly, now, we're talking about court and legalese and how fast is quickly?” ([09:35])

---

6. Episode Structure & Flow

• Host and guest dynamic: The interplay between Andrea Canning, Craig Melvin, Carol Gable, Josh Mankiewicz, Rachel White, and Laura Jarrett creates a brisk, informative style filled with behind-the-scenes reporting and personal observations.
• Distinguished style & tone: The reporting is thorough, empathetic, and careful not to sensationalize. Victims’ voices and legal nuances are foregrounded.

---

7. Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:23] – Breaking news: Alex Murdaugh’s conviction overturned
• [15:11] – Latest search for Kristin Smart’s body
• [25:22] – Dateline Roundup: Dee Warner sentencing, Amber Spradlin case, Lynette Hooker update
• [31:29] – AI and murder: Lawsuit against OpenAI following mass shooting
• [36:10] – Florida AG’s statement on AI liability

---

Summary

This packed episode delivers critical updates on notorious cases, highlighting the ever-evolving landscape of American crime and justice, from overturned verdicts to the collision of technology and legality. With expert contributors and real-time developments, Dateline: True Crime Weekly remains essential listening for the true crime community.

Transcript

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[Andrea Canning]

It's the start of another workday for the DATELINE team. She thinks we're gonna get the interview. Our producers are swapping tips and story ideas if they find a body.

[Craig Melvin]

That would be huge. She bought a plane ticket, but she never actually boarded the plane.

[Andrea Canning]

They would have indicted her earlier if they had more. Welcome to DATELINE True Crime weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's May 14, and here's what's on our docket. Josh Mankiewicz is here to discuss the latest in the Kristen Smart case And why almost 30 years after her murder, police are still digging up backyards in Southern California.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

They found some signs that a body had been buried there.

[Andrea Canning]

In DATELINE Roundup, an update on the trial of the dentist's son accused of murdering a restaurant hostess and emotional testimony at the sentencing of Dale Warner, the Michigan man convicted of murdering his wife Dee and concealing her body in a fertilizer tank. My mom's name, Dee Hardy, will live in our hearts, in our community for an eternity, but Dale Warner's name will be gone forever. Plus, could an AI Chatbot ever be held accountable for helping plan a murder? NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett tells us about a groundbreaking lawsuit in Florida.

[Laura Jarrett]

If somebody is asking ChatGPT, how do you dispose of a body? Is that for research or is that for murder?

[Andrea Canning]

But before all that, breaking news out of South Carolina. Alec Murdoch is no longer a convicted murderer. Alec Murdoch's six week double murder trial was labeled the trial of the century, with true crime tourists lining up outside the Colleton County Courthouse to get a seat Inside, we were there too, as secrets about this once prominent lawyer's life spilled into view. His drug addiction, financial crimes, troubled marriage. Prosecutors said all of that drove Murdoch to murder his wife and son. In March 2023, a jury found Murdoch guilty and he was sentenced to serve the rest of his life in prison. But if you thought that would be the last you'd hear from Alec Murdoch, you'd be wrong. He quickly filed an appeal arguing that he did not get a fair trial. And he pointed the finger at someone who was in the courtroom every day. Court clerk Becky Hill. His appeal made it all the way to the South Carolina Supreme Court. In February, at a high stakes hearing, his attorneys made their case for a new trial to the five Supreme Court justices.

[Mayra Ammon]

No matter how heinous, no matter how

[Andrea Canning]

overwhelming the evidence, you're still entitled to a fair trial. On Wednesday, the South Carolina Supreme Court announced a game changing decision. They overturned his conviction. Alec Murdoch will be getting a new trial. Craig Melvin, co anchor of NBC's Today show, and Dateline producer Carol Gable are here now to fill us in. Craig and Carol, welcome to the show. And Craig especially, this is a nice treat.

[Craig Melvin]

Oh, Andrew, you're very kind. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

And we always love having Carol, of course. So let's dive right in, guys. If you follow true crime or live in South Carolina, you know this case well. But for anyone who doesn't, just give us a recap.

[Craig Melvin]

Alec. Alec Murdock, Lawyer, South Carolina, very prominent. For folks who may not know this, I'm from South Carolina, lived there until I was 28 years old. I knew who Alec Murdoch was, but he was a low country lawyer who had made a lot of money and wielded a great deal of influence in the Palmetto State. And then In June of 2021, he calls 911 to report that his wife and his younger son Paul had both been shot and killed outside their sprawling home. And he told investigators that he found the bodies when he'd come back from visiting his mother, who at the time had Alzheimer's. But investigators didn't buy it. Prosecutors didn't buy it. Ultimately, jurors didn't buy it either. They used cell phone video, vehicle data. They used witness testimony to ultimately place Alec Murdoch at the scene. And so he ended up being convicted of killing his, his wife and son in March of 2023.

[Andrea Canning]

So Murdoch filed an appeal right away and his lawyers started raising questions about what happened behind the scenes of the tr, notably the conduct of former court clerk Becky Hill. She really kind of dropped a grenade in the middle of all of this, right, guys?

[Carol Gable]

Well, she did. She was later accused by the former chief justice of South Carolina of yielding to the siren call of celebrity because she was the it girl at the trial in the sense that so many people wanted to see that trial. She gave people seats, made sure they could get in. She had media from around the world who were pestering her for favors and attention. And I think it was a very heady experience.

[Andrea Canning]

And, Craig, Becky wrote a book that also really put her in the spotlight,

[Craig Melvin]

behind the Doors of Justice. That was the title of the book, behind the Doors of justice, the Murdoch Murders. It was a tell all about the court proceedings. And if the Murdoch trial was a circus, Andrea, you could make the argument that Becky Hill may have been the ringmaster. I mean, anybody who spent any time there in the.

[Carol Gable]

Absolutely.

[Craig Melvin]

In the courtroom or outside the courthouse, I mean, she would hold court. I mean, it was very much her. It was her courtroom.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. How did Becky's actions violate Murdoch's right to a fair trial?

[Carol Gable]

Well, you know, a lot of it centers on stray comments that Becky made that some jurors heard, little stray things that later those jurors said, you know, made them feel like that she wanted a certain outcome.

[Andrea Canning]

Craig. She made a comment to the jurors as they began deliberations.

[Craig Melvin]

Andrew. She did, and it was this particular comment, quote, this shouldn't take us long, implying that it was obvious that, you know, Alec Murdoch was guilty. So the defense argued that those remarks carried weight and they interfered with the jury's ability to deliberate independently. And based on the judge's decision, it would appear as if the high court of the Palmetto State agreed.

[Andrea Canning]

And the justices said, you know, the prosecutors, even Murdoch's defense team skillfully presented their cases to the jury, but their efforts were in vain, you know, because court clerk Becky Hill placed her fingers on the scales of justice, thereby denying Murdoch his right to a fair trial by an impartial jury. Have we, have we heard anything from Becky?

[Carol Gable]

I called Becky and she didn't call me back. At a hearing on this issue in 2024, she denied trying to influence the jury.

[Andrea Canning]

So the big question is, what happens next? Murdoch isn't getting out of prison anytime soon. He's serving a 40 year sentence after pleading guilty in federal court to stealing millions from clients, along with a more than 20 year sentence after pleading guilty to financial crimes in state court. We should note that another reason his defense argued Murdoch didn't get a fair trial is that the Prosecution was allowed to refer to those financial crimes at his murder trial.

[Carol Gable]

In their decision today, the Supreme Court did not include the financial crimes issue as a reason for a new trial because they said, essentially, Becky Hill's behavior was enough. And the interesting fact, as we move forward toward a possible retrial, is that the financial crimes were key for the prosecution's case as the motive for the murders. It was a crucial piece, and, I mean, everybody wants to know why. And the financial crimes seem to explain that and lay out out the why.

[Andrea Canning]

Craig, you. You talked to the Attorney General, Alan Wilson, and he said publicly that he disagreed with the court's decision and vowed to aggressively seek to retry Murdoch as soon as possible. No one is above the law. And he said, as always, we will continue to fight for justice.

[Carol Gable]

Right. And. And when they say we're going to do this quickly now, we're talking about court and legalese and how long, how, how fast as quickly. But, you know, Alan Wilson is running for govern. There is also an election going on for a new Attorney general. How do you think that's going to figure into this?

[Craig Melvin]

I think if, you know, you look back at that news conference that happened right after the trial, and the Attorney General of South Carolina was very much front and center and patting his prosecutors on the back, and he showed up at the trial and sat at the table, and that's fairly uncommon for the Attorney General. This was a victory that helped define his term as ag. So it's a source of pride. And now all of a sudden, you have the Supreme Court in a unanimous decision, by the way.

[Andrea Canning]

Unanimous? Yeah. Five to zero.

[Laura Jarrett]

Yeah.

[Craig Melvin]

You've got the high court saying, well, wait a minute, not so fast. So, yes, I think that they want to retry it. I think they want to retry it for probably a variety of reasons.

[Andrea Canning]

Speaking of Alec, any word from him or his team about this?

[Craig Melvin]

This was not a surprise for Murdoch's team. You know, Dick and Jim have been fairly confident over the last few months, since their hearing at the Supreme Court, that this would be the decision. By the way, they still, Andrea, they still maintain their client's innocence. It's not just that the cards were stacked against them and Becky Hill had her thumb on the scales of justice. They still maintain he did not do it. And that was, if you recall, in their closing arguments, they basically said, our client's not a good guy. He's a bad guy. He stole $12 million from the least among us. He'd been doing it for years. He developed this addiction He's a bad dude, but he's not that bad.

[Andrea Canning]

He's not a killer. Yeah.

[Craig Melvin]

I do wonder if there, you know, if there is a retrial, if he actually takes the stand.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, maybe not.

[Craig Melvin]

And I got the sense during my interviews over the course of the trial and before with his attorneys, I got the sense that they had their druthers. He probably would not have testified in the first trial. And so you gotta wonder if they learn from that.

[Andrea Canning]

Craig, you have covered this case extensively for Dateline and got some exclusive interviews in the past. Now you've got some new interviews for Dateline and the Today Show.

[Craig Melvin]

Yes, we are going to talk exclusively to Alec Murdoch's legal team and we're also gonna talk to the attorney general as well to sort of help understand the state's thinking.

[Andrea Canning]

So that's on the Today show this morning and Dateline Friday night.

[Craig Melvin]

It's the best combination, right?

[Andrea Canning]

Yep. And dateline will be Friday, 9, 8 Central on NBC or on Peacock the next day. Craig and Carol, thank you so much for bringing us your perspective on all this because you two have been covering this for such a long time. We're grateful that you came on today. Thank you.

[Craig Melvin]

I'm grateful that Carol lets me work for her.

[Andrea Canning]

We all are, Craig. We all are.

[Carol Gable]

I am so going to remember that.

[Andrea Canning]

Coming up, investigators in Southern California dug up a backyard last week hoping to find the body of Kristen Smart, the college student murdered almost 30 years ago. Josh Mankowitz has the latest.

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[Andrea Canning]

Kristen Smart was just 19 years old in 1996, a freshman at California Polytechnic State University or Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo, California. The last time anyone saw Kristen was on Memorial Day weekend as she was leaving an off campus party with a fellow student named Paul Flores. While campus police suggested Kristen may have run off for a weekend trip, her friends and family knew something was wrong. We knew she wouldn't just take off. We knew she wouldn't do that. Kristen was very vocal about what she was doing or where she was going. But years passed, then decades without answers. Kristen's parents kept their daughter's disappearance in the spotlight while investigators continued pursuing the case, increasingly focused on Paul Flores as their prime suspect. Eventually, in 2021, prosecutors charged Paul with Kristen's murder. He was convicted in 2022 and sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. But the case hasn't been closed because Kristin's body has never been found. Then last week, San Luis Obispo County Sheriff Ian Parkinson made an announcement. A search was underway at the home belonging to Paul's mother, Susan.

[Law Enforcement Official / Court Official]

We arrived just before 7 to serve the search warrant and we're prepared to go as long as it takes until we either find Kristen, find evidence and are satisfied that everything has been searched.

[Andrea Canning]

My colleague and friend Josh Mankiewicz, who has been covering this case for years and spent time talking to Kristen's parents and investigators for his DATELINE episode, Justice for Kristen Smart is here to tell us more. Hey Josh.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Hello.

[Andrea Canning]

Thank you for joining us. I know you know a lot about this case and this latest search made front page news across the country. It was all over social media. This case just continues to capture a lot of attention.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Well, it does, and that's cause it isn't really over. Although there was a criminal trial Paul Flores was absolutely convicted in that her body has never been found. And the Smart family, they have continued to press law enforcement for a search that would eventually turn up where their daughter is because they want to bring her home.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Gosh, understandably. What a horrible time for this family all these decades. Josh, remind us about the case a little bit. You talked about Paul Flores. What did police know in the early days of this?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

She had been at a party off campus. This was right at the end of the school year. It was around Memorial Day weekend, and Paul Flores was there. And at the end of the party, she was either passed out or close to passed out on the lawn outside this house. Now, a bunch of people leave. He offers to walk her to her dorm, which is a very short distance away. And his story is, she went to her dorm, I went to mine. That was it. But she is never seen again. Then he turns up after that with a black eye, and he's told a couple of different stories about how he got that black eye. The strong belief by law enforcement is that he either raped Kristin that night or attempted to got a black eye in the process, and that somehow she died that night, either deliberately or as he was attempting to subdue her. There is just no way to know.

[Carol Gable]

Wow.

[Andrea Canning]

So cadaver dogs detected human decomposition in Paul's dorm room back in the early days, but it wasn't enough to charge him with anything. However, if we Fast forward to 2021, 25 years after Kristen disappeared, he is arrested, Paul is finally arrested. What changed? Why so much time passing?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

You know, it's not like there was some DNA hit. You know, that's not some telltale piece of fingerprinting. But it was a sheriff's department that really worked on this hard. It was a podcast by a guy named Christopher Lambert, who was not a journalist, was not a friend of the Smart family when this began, and had never investigated, I think, any criminal case before. But who sort of saw this case, saw the billboard about, have you seen Kristen Smart on the highway? And wanted to get involved.

[Andrea Canning]

And I'm retracing missing Cal Poly student Kristen Smart's last known steps.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

And that podcast ended up funneling a lot of tips to the sheriff's department, which also in a wonderful development, was kind of conducive to receiving information from a non traditional source like a podcast, because a lot of times law enforcement's not interested in that.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Now, when Paul Flores was arrested, his dad was also arrested and accused of helping him conceal the body they excavated below the dad's deck at his house, not the same house they were at this past weekend. And they found some signs that a body had been buried there.

[Andrea Canning]

Paul was convicted and sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. His dad Reuben, was acquitted. How did Kristen's family react to the verdicts?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

On the one hand, I think they were elated that the person who was the only suspect, who had always been the only suspect, was finally tried and convicted. But that did not end this journey for them. They still wanted Kristen's body, and they haven't given up.

[Andrea Canning]

All right, that brings us back to the search this past week at the home of Paul's mother, Susan Flores. At the time of the murder, she and Paul's dad Reuben were no longer together. And we should say, Josh, this isn't the first time her property has come under scrutiny. Investigators were there back in 1996 and didn't find anything. But in 2023, scientists working out of her neighbor's yard said they found evidence of human decomposition along her back fence. So, Josh, what brought investigators back to Susan's home this time?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

It does feel as if, and the sheriff sort of alluded to this in his comments the other day, that someone has told them something.

[Law Enforcement Official / Court Official]

I would say that there was information that was derived by. From what we have to deem as a witness, not in the context of I saw this happen. They contributed to it by information that they provided that helped.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

That's sort of what got them over the search warrant bar to start digging in her backyard.

[Andrea Canning]

And they're not just digging in her backyard. They're taking soil samples and testing the vapor coming off that soil to look for signs of human decomposition. At the press conference last week, the sheriff revealed what his investigators had found in the first few days of their search.

[Law Enforcement Official / Court Official]

We can't call it Kristen, but, you know, we think there's. There's evidence to support human remains there at one time.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Once again, there is the scent or the finding of human decomposition, which was in Paul Flores's dorm room, which was under Paul Flores father's deck, and which is underground at Paul Flores's mom's house. Coincidence? Homicide investigators will tell you that's not a coincidence.

[Andrea Canning]

Josh, we should point out that Susan has never been charged in connection with this case. And she also declined to make any comment about the search. Saturday, the sheriff's department announced the search was over and that unfortunately, they had not found Kristen's body. But you know what? It's just absolute torture for the Smart family.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more, but they are absolutely committed to seeing this through.

[Andrea Canning]

It sounds like the sheriff isn't done either. He said his detectives will evaluate the evidence they've uncovered in the search. And his team remains committed to finding Kristen and bringing her home. Josh, thank you for joining us and bringing us your unique insight into this case and the latest developments.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

Up next, it's time for DATELINE roundup. We've got updates from the case of Lynette Hooker, the woman who went missing in the Bahamas. And Dale Warner, the man convicted of murdering his wife and hiding her body in a fertilizer tank learns his fate. Plus, the AI Chatbots accused of helping killers plan their crimes. But can the chatbots be charged with a crime? NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett breaks it down for us.

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[Andrea Canning]

Welcome back. Joining me for this week's roundup is Dateline producer Rachel White. Rachel, thanks for being here.

[Rachel White]

Thank you for having me back.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so, Rachel, first we are headed to Lenaway County Circuit Court in Michigan for the final chapter in a case we've been covering from the very beginning. We're talking about the murder of grandmother and entrepreneur Deanne Warner at the hands of her husband, 58 year old Dale Warner. Rachel, give us a quick recap.

[Rachel White]

Yeah. So De went missing from the home she shared with her husband Dale in 2021. The couple owned several businesses together and had been married for 15 years. But by all accounts, the marriage was on the rocks.

[Andrea Canning]

Rachel. Investigators conducted extensive searches across the thousands of acres of farmland. It was a tough situation given just how large that area is. But of course, they did not find Dee. In November 2023, Dale was arrested and charged with her murder. Then In August of 2024, investigators made a breakthrough.

[Rachel White]

That's right. So they discovered Dee's body wrapped in a tar a fertilizer tank on Dale's property that had been welded shut. An autopsy showed she'd been beaten and strangled.

[Andrea Canning]

Horrible. What did prosecutors say was the reason for the murder?

[Rachel White]

They argued that it was greed and that De had been talking about divorce and selling the trucking business and that if she did that, Dale would lose a lot of money. So he killed her.

[Andrea Canning]

In March, a jury found Dale Warner guilty of second degree murder and tampering with evidence. Late last week, Dale appeared in court for his sentencing. Who was there? Rachel.

[Rachel White]

So several of De's family members spoke and they did not hold back. De's daughter, Raquel Bach made it a point to refer to Dee using her maiden name, which was Hardy.

[Andrea Canning]

My mom's name. Dee Hardy will live in our hearts, in our community for an eternity. But Dale Warner's name will be gone forever.

[Rachel White]

And De's sister in law, Shelly told Dale the family was going to keep De's love of life and laughter alive in their hearts. And then she did something really dramatic. Dee knew we would fight to the

[Andrea Canning]

end and we won.

[Rachel White]

And now I'm going to remove my bracelet that I worn since Dee was missing. Because we got justice.

[Andrea Canning]

Wow, that is powerful. Dee's brother Greg Hardy also gave a statement. And at one point, the judge had to caution him to tone it down.

[Law Enforcement Official / Court Official]

The barbaric act of covering up your crime by welding my sister in a

[Craig Melvin]

cold steel tomb is beyond your human.

[Andrea Canning]

You are a spineless piece of human debris.

[Law Enforcement Official / Court Official]

Mr. Hardy, I'm going to ask you

[Andrea Canning]

to confine your comments to addressing the court. I'M sorry, did Dale speak in front of the court at all?

[Rachel White]

No. So Dale's defense attorney said that he asked her to say he loved his wife and that he maintains his innocence and that he did not kill her.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so what did the judge decide for Dale's punishment?

[Rachel White]

The judge sentenced him to 31 to 70 years, noting the fact that Dale covered up the body for so long and that that was truly heinous.

[Andrea Canning]

All right, leaving Michigan and heading to Kentucky. Pikeville, Kentucky. It's an update on the case of Amber Spradlin, the woman who was found stabbed to death in 2023 at a dentist's house. Rachel, remind us about the case.

[Rachel White]

Yeah. So Amber spradlin was a 38 year old restaurant hostess, and the house where she died belonged to a dentist named Dr. Michael McKinney. There were no arrests until 2024, when the dentist was son Michael, who everyone calls MK, was charged with her murder and multiple counts of tampering with evidence. He's pleaded not guilty. MK's dad, the dentist, Dr. Michael McKinney, and a family friend, Josh Mullins, were also charged with tampering with evidence. And they've pleaded not guilty as well.

[Andrea Canning]

The three men, Rachel, were set to go to trial this week, but there was a pre trial hearing on Monday that changed everything, right?

[Rachel White]

Yeah. So prosecutors argued that the trial should be delayed. They said that they have crime lab evidence that they need more time to

[Andrea Canning]

test what has been taking so long to get the evidence tested.

[Rachel White]

So there's a couple of reasons. Basically, the biggest issue is there's a backlog at the state crime lab and a large amount of the evidence in this case is forensic evidence that needs to be tested. So on Monday, a forensic scientist with the lab testified at the hearing and said that the preferred limit for testing is 10 items, and in this case, 145 items were submitted.

[Andrea Canning]

That's a lot. What did the judge decide?

[Rachel White]

So the trial's been delayed and it's a pretty significant delay. It's now supposed to start January 11, 2027.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, lots of updates there. For our last story, Rachel, we have got a quick update on a case I was covering recently in Marsh Harbor, Bahamas, and we're talking about the disappearance of Lynette Hooker, a Michigan woman who was sailing around the world with her husband Brian on their sailboat back in April. Brian told authorities that Lynette fell off their dinghy after a night out and was swept away. The Royal Bahamas police launched a rescue operation, but of course, they did not find Lynette Lynette's daughter Carly told me she was skeptical of Brian's story. Part of me feel like he's going to get away with this and walk away a free man.

[Laura Jarrett]

And I really hope that doesn't happen.

[Rachel White]

Yeah. So the Bahamian police had questions, too. They interviewed Brian for five days before releasing him. He, of course, has denied any wrongdoing and said he was devastated at the loss of his wife.

[Andrea Canning]

Brian left the Bahamas shortly after he was released to come back to the States. What is the latest in the case now?

[Rachel White]

So the Coast Guard in Fort Pierce in Florida told NBC that they are now in possession of the hooker's boat called the Soulmate, as the Coast Guard said.

[Andrea Canning]

Anything, Rachel, about what they're hoping to find with the boat or why they took the boat?

[Rachel White]

No. So a Coast Guard official has said that the agency can't comment. So we really don't have any additional information yet.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, we know this is definitely an ongoing investigation. Thanks for the update on this story as well. Rachel will definitely be watching this one, too.

[Rachel White]

Thanks, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

For our final story, we wanted to tell you about a potentially groundbreaking lawsuit that was just filed in a Florida federal courthouse. As AI is becoming increasingly part of our lives and we turn to it for information and advice. This lawsuit asks whether an AI chatbot can be held responsible for murder. In April20, 25, 45 year old father of two Tiru Chaba gunned down during a mass shooting on the campus of Florida State University. His alleged killer, a student by the name of Phoenix Eichner, was taken into custody and is expected to stand trial later this year. On Sunday, Tiru's family filed a wrongful death lawsuit naming not just Eichner as a defendant, but also OpenAI, the company that owns ChatGPT, alleging that one of its chatbots gave instructions to Eichner about how to carry out the shooting. Here is the family's lawyer on the Today show this week.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

In this case, ChatGPT became a CO conspirator and not collaborator with a shooter.

[Andrea Canning]

This is not the first time we've heard allegations that an AI chat bot may have played a role in a murder. So we're asking NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett to come on the podcast to help us understand more about AI in the courtroom. Welcome back to the show, Laura.

[Laura Jarrett]

Hey, always great to be with you.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. So, Laura, you and another NBC reporter actually broke the news of this wrongful death lawsuit and it got a lot of attention, especially, especially in the legal world.

[Laura Jarrett]

I think part of what people are so sort of blown away by in this is the level of engagement that a chatbot, okay, so there is no human being behind this bot is purely AI driven, and yet the level of engagement is kind of mind blowing. Phoenix Eichner is 20 years old, and he sort of goes down the Rabbit hole on ChatGPT, asking about weapons, asking about other school shootings. And on the day of the shooting, just hours before prosecutors say he killed two people and injured several others, he's asking about loading the weapon, uploaded images of the weapon. So Chat GP knows what he's dealing with. He's asking about how to load it. He's asking about the busiest time at the student union at fsu. He's asking about how many people have to die for the media to pay attention to it. Okay? And so it's all of those things together is what the attorneys for the family is saying is the wrong here. And so their point is, at some point, a human being should have been flagged, okay? Not saying that they should have called the police. That's not the allegation in the lawsuit. The allegation in the lawsuit is that a human being should have had an alarm bell go off because if he was talking to another person on the side of that screen, not a bot, a human being would have said, you need help?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What about OpenAI? What are they saying about this wrongful death lawsuit?

[Laura Jarrett]

So when we reached out to OpenAI about this, they said, this is a terrible tragedy, but we are not responsible for this, and that our product has been cooperating with authorities and that all it did was provide factual responses just the way that Google would.

[Andrea Canning]

Laura, this reminds me of another case we covered recently involving a different Florida university. Two students were stabbed to death, and investigators say their alleged killer asked ChatGPT to research body disposal and other questions related to these murders. Let's take a listen to the sheriff.

[Law Enforcement Official / Court Official]

He searches for can a knife penetrate a skull? Can a neighbor hear a gunshot? Can you bury a body in a trash bag and throw it in a dumpster?

[Andrea Canning]

NBC News reached out to OpenAI. They told us they're doing whatever they can to support law enforcement, but what can be done with regulations, guardrails, you know, in place maybe to prevent future violent crimes, where Chat GPT or other sources of AI are being brought into this?

[Laura Jarrett]

I think it's a really interesting sort of brave new world question, right? If somebody is asking ChatGPT, how do you dispose of a body? Is that for research or is that for murder? And at what point, do you alert law enforcement? Right. And is it like minority port where it's like, okay, we're gonna predict that they're gonna do something really bad, so we're gonna tell law enforcement, like, go swarm the house right now. Like, is that like probable cause to get a search warrant? Like, I think there's so many interesting fourth Amendment questions that raised by this too.

[Andrea Canning]

Laura. Back to the Florida mass shooting. Last month, Florida attorney general announced he was investigating OpenAI's role in that. Let's take a listen.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

If that bot were a person, they

[Andrea Canning]

would be charged with a principle in first degree murder. We cannot have AI bots that are

[Josh Mankiewicz]

advising people on how to kill others.

[Andrea Canning]

That is wrong and that is dangerous. Laura, what's interesting about all of this is that we're not talking about a person, we're talking about a computer. And can you hold a computer or the company that makes the computer responsible for crimes?

[Laura Jarrett]

That's gonna be up for a jury to decide. I think at some point that's gonna get tested in the not too distant future. The question is always in any murder case, as you know, is was it foreseeable? Right. What was the intent? They're gonna be able to say, of course chatgpt didn't intend murder, but maybe there's some sort of lower, you know, recklessness or sort of negligent homicide charge that could be brought. I think we're going to see that within a year.

[Andrea Canning]

Laura, thank you so much for bringing us your amazing legal mind into this debate and this very interesting topic. We appreciate you coming on the show.

[Laura Jarrett]

Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

And if you want to hear more from Laura, check out her new limited podcast which drops every Saturday this month. It's called here's the Scoop, Supreme Court Edition. She's talking to legal experts and lawyers about the big cases in front of the Supreme Court right now and what it all means. And it's very fascinating. That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. To get ad free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium. And coming up this Friday on Dateline, we just talked about the latest twist in the Alec Murdoch case today. But of course, there's a lot more to this story. After the South Carolina Supreme Court's big decision, Craig Melvin takes us back inside the investigation and brings us new interviews with those who have had a front row seat to this case from the very beginning. My wife.

[Carol Gable]

And

[Andrea Canning]

watch the latest this Friday at 9, 8 Central on NBC or stream it starting Saturday on Peacock. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins, Caroline Casey and Keani Reed. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone Groth and Aria Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Kurloff. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.

[Craig Melvin]

And that's everything from us. See you later.

[Law Enforcement Official / Court Official]

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