An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.

Summary

Dateline: True Crime Weekly – Episode Summary

Release Date: February 20, 2025

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1. The Alleged "Murder Dentist" in Colorado

Overview: The episode opens with Blaine Alexander stepping in for Andrea Canning to discuss one of the most convoluted cases currently on Dateline’s docket—James Craig, a Colorado dentist accused of murdering his wife, Angela. This marks Craig's third defense team, adding layers of complexity to an already tangled legal saga.

Key Details:

• Initial Accusation: In March 2023, Angela Craig was admitted to the hospital in grave condition after feeling ill for several weeks and subsequently died. Prosecutors alleged that James Craig poisoned her protein shakes with potassium cyanide and tetrahydrozoline (found in eye drops)^[03:32].

• Arrest and Early Developments: Craig was arrested the day after his business partner reported his suspicious purchase of potassium cyanide. Craig claimed that Angela had asked him to order the substance, believing she was suicidal^[04:56].

• Prosecution’s Motive: Investigators highlighted tumultuous aspects of James and Angela’s marriage, including multiple affairs and past instances of James allegedly drugging Angela^[05:09].

• New Charges: Last fall, Craig faced additional charges of solicitation to commit murder and perjury. Prosecutors presented evidence that Craig planned to have four individuals killed, including the lead detective on Angela’s case^[05:37].

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Ewlinger on the complexity of the case: “This story is really crazy to say the least”^[03:57].

• Craig’s reaction in court: “...the murder dentist” phrase caused him to flinch^[06:41].

Courtroom Developments: During a recent hearing, prosecutors introduced testimonies from a sheriff’s sergeant and fellow inmates, alleging that Craig attempted to fabricate evidence by soliciting assistance from inmates^[06:04 - 07:24]. Craig's defense challenged the authenticity of the handwriting on alleged tampered letters, but the judge ruled that the prosecution had sufficient evidence to proceed to trial^[07:11].

Upcoming Trial: The trial, initially postponed thrice, is now scheduled to commence in mid-July, potentially extending into early August^[09:01].

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2. Eric Thompson’s Second Murder Trial in Hawaii

Overview: The episode transitions to Hawaii, where Eric Thompson stands trial for the second time, accused of murdering John Tokuhara, his wife Joyce's ex-lover. This marks a pivotal moment as Thompson takes the stand in his defense for the first time.

Key Details:

• Crime Background: In January 2020, John Tokuhara was fatally shot, an incident Joyce and Eric Thompson have been navigating in the courtroom^[13:00].

• Prosecution’s Case: The prosecution contends that Thompson orchestrated the murder by disguising himself and planting incriminating evidence, such as a white bucket hat with his DNA^[13:04 - 14:18].

• Defense’s Strategy: Thompson claims he was elsewhere on the night of the murder, engaged in construction work and purchasing groceries, with alibi supported by security camera footage^[16:17 - 17:30].

• Recent Developments: In the second trial, Thompson chose to testify, presenting a narrative of a harmonious relationship with his wife and denying any anger or confrontation with Tokuhara^[15:38 - 18:33]. His testimonies have focused on contradicting his first trial’s narrative and establishing a solid alibi.

Notable Quotes:

• Thompson during his testimony: “I had a pretty normal day... I went to buy beer”^[16:33].

• Cross-examination highlight: “I think Joyce took care of everything”^[16:20].

Courtroom Dynamics: The prosecution focused on inconsistencies between Thompson’s first and second testimonies, aiming to undermine his credibility^[17:47]. With Thompson on the stand, the defense seeks to establish his innocence through detailed alibis and character evidence.

Next Steps: Following Thompson’s testimony, the jury is set to deliberate on the verdict, with the trial expected to conclude soon following Thompson’s three-day testimony^[18:25 - 18:33].

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3. Dateline Roundup

a. Karen Reed’s Upcoming Trial in Massachusetts

Overview: Rachel White joins the discussion to provide updates on Karen Reed, who is accused of fatally crashing her SUV into her police officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe, in 2022.

Key Details:

• Pretrial Issues: During a recent motions hearing, Judge suspended proceedings upon uncovering significant concerns regarding the defense’s disclosure of expert witness agreements in accident reconstruction^[21:09 - 22:34].

• Allegations: The prosecution claims the defense failed to disclose that ARCA experts were compensated $23,000 and collaboratively developed their testimonies, contrary to initial claims of independent retention^[22:34 - 23:06].

Next Steps: The suspended hearing has been rescheduled for the following week, with Reed's retrial slated for April. The outcome of the disclosure issue could profoundly impact the defense strategy^[22:41 - 22:55].

b. Bryan Kohberger’s Case in Idaho

Overview: The roundup covers important developments in Bryan Kohberger’s case, accused of fatally stabbing four University of Idaho students in 2022.

Key Details:

• New Evidence: The defense introduced claims of undisclosed blood evidence from two unidentified males found at the crime scene, suggesting possible alternate suspects^[23:06 - 23:49].

• Court Ruling: Judge Steven Hippler denied the defense’s motion to suppress DNA evidence, allowing it to be presented during the upcoming summer trial^[24:10 - 24:28].

Implications: This ruling permits the prosecution to use the contested DNA evidence, potentially strengthening their case against Kohberger despite the defense's attempts to introduce reasonable doubt.

c. Arrest of Zizians Cult Leader in Maryland

Overview: The episode reports on the arrest of Jack Lasoda, known as Ziz, the leader of the Zizians, a group linked to multiple violent deaths across several states.

Key Details:

• Charges: Lasoda faces misdemeanors including trespassing and obstructing law enforcement^[24:47 - 25:04].

• Additional Arrests: Michelle Zyko, associated with the Zizians and connected to prior violent incidents, was also arrested on similar misdemeanor charges^[25:04 - 25:19].

Significance: These arrests signify a crackdown on the Zizians, whose activities have spanned from Pennsylvania to California, indicating ongoing investigations into their criminal involvements.

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4. Special Feature: Keith Morrison’s "Murder in the Moonlight" Podcast

Overview: Keith Morrison introduces his latest podcast series, "Murder in the Moonlight," which delves into intriguing and complex murder cases, starting with a chilling incident in Murdoch, Nebraska.

Key Story Highlight:

• Case Synopsis: The podcast begins with the murder of a respected farming family in Murdoch. Initially, two cousins were suspected and one even confessed, making the case appear straightforward. However, discrepancies and new evidence suggested the possibility of additional perpetrators^[26:01 - 27:19].

• Investigative Techniques: The series uncovers sophisticated detective work, including blood spatter analysis and the discovery of a gold ring that acts as a crucial clue, leading to a multi-state investigation^[27:19 - 28:48].

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel White on the complexity of the investigation: “Doesn't happen that often, but...”^[28:48].

• Detective work highlighted through blood spatter evidence: “...the blood spatter which traveled across a hallway and hit a wall...”^[27:19].

Teaser: An excerpt from an upcoming episode features a Buffalo jewelry expert meticulously tracing the origin of a mysterious gold ring found at the crime scene, emphasizing the lengths investigators go to uncover the truth^[28:48 - 29:30].

Conclusion: Morrison’s podcast promises a deep dive into the intricacies of true crime investigations, highlighting both successful detective work and the challenges faced in solving complex cases.

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5. Upcoming Features and Promotions

Trial Previews: The episode concludes with a preview of an upcoming two-hour Dateline special, "A Walk in the Woods," focusing on the unsolved murders of two schoolgirls in Delphi, Indiana. The case, stalled for years, hinges on a grainy photo and a mysterious voice recording captured on one victim's cell phone.

Promotional Spots: Interspersed throughout the episode were advertisements for various products and services, including Ingrezza medication, Skechers footwear, and Cosentyx for psoriatic arthritis. Additionally, promotions for related podcasts and business services were aired but are considered non-content segments and thus were not detailed in this summary.

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Conclusion

This episode of Dateline: True Crime Weekly provided a comprehensive look into some of the most gripping and complex true crime cases currently unfolding across the United States. From the tangled legal battles of a "murder dentist" to the strategic courtroom maneuvers in a second-time murder trial, the episode offered listeners deep insights and expert analyses. The Dateline Roundup further expanded the conversation to include high-profile cases like Bryan Kohberger’s and the unsettling activities of the Zizians cult. Finally, Keith Morrison’s introduction to his new podcast series promises engaging storytelling for true crime enthusiasts.

Listeners seeking detailed examinations of these cases and behind-the-scenes perspectives would find this episode particularly informative and engaging.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Tim Ewlinger: “This story is really crazy to say the least.” [03:57]

• James Craig: Flinched upon being labeled the “murder dentist.” [06:41]

• Eric Thompson: “I had a pretty normal day... I went to buy beer.” [16:33]

• Rachel White: “I think Joyce took care of everything.” [16:20]

• Keith Morrison: “...the blood spatter which traveled across a hallway and hit a wall...” [27:19]

---

For more detailed insights and updates on these cases, tune into the latest episode of Dateline: True Crime Weekly available on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Blaine Alexander]

My uncontrollable movements called TD tardive dyskinesia felt embarrassing. I felt like disconnecting. I asked my doctor about treating my TD and learned about in a prescription medicine clinically proven for reducing TD in adults. That's always one capsule once daily and number one prescribed. People taking in can stay on most mental health meds in can cause depression, suicidal thoughts or actions in patients with Huntington's disease. Call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden behavior or mood changes or suicidal thoughts. Don't take in serious side effect may include allergic reactions like sudden potentially fatal swelling in hives, sleepiness the most common side effect and heart rhythm problems. Know how in grezza affects you before operating a car or dangerous machinery, report fever, stiff muscles or problems thinking as these might be life threatening. Shaking, stiffness, drooling and trouble with moving.

[Tim Ewlinger]

Or balance may occur.

[Blaine Alexander]

Take control by asking your doctor about Ingrezza. Learn more at ingrezza.com that's ing R.

[Tim Ewlinger]

E Z Z A dot com in Grezza look around.

[Blaine Alexander]

You can find cars like these on autotrader. New cars, used cars, electric cars, maybe even flyin cars. Okay, no flying cars. But as soon as they get invented they'll be on autotrader. Just you wait.

[Keith Morrison]

Autotrader.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Hey Jim, is it cold and miserable out?

[Blaine Alexander]

You're listening in to a story meeting at dateline headquarters in 30 Rockefeller Center.

[Tim Ewlinger]

It's raining, but it's actually pretty mild.

[Blaine Alexander]

Our editorial team is catching up on breaking crime news around the country.

[Rachel White]

So there's one ex boyfriend who's a suspect for a while out west.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Josh pointed this out last night. Josh Mankiewicz.

[Tim Ewlinger]

So many crazy things have happened. This is the third defense team he's had.

[Blaine Alexander]

Welcome to Dateline True Crime weekly. I'm Blaine Alexander in for Andrea Canning, who's off this week. It's February 20th and here's what's on our docket. In Hawaii, a man accused of murdering his wife's acupuncturist ex lover took the stand in his own defense.

[Rachel White]

Did you kill John Tokuhara? No. No, no, no.

[Blaine Alexander]

And we've got this week's roundup of top crime stories, including the arrest of the leader of a group called the Zizians, which prosecutors believe is connected to six violent deaths. Big rulings on defense motions in Idaho for Bryan Kohberger and drama in the latest pretrial hearing in the Karen Reed case.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Reid was in court on Tuesday for a motions hearing when all of a su the judge suspended it.

[Blaine Alexander]

Plus Keith Morrison will be here to fill us in on his latest podcast series, Murder in the Moonlight.

[Rachel White]

Somebody found a gold ring in a place where it didn't belong. Did it belong to the killer? And then you go on a long and winding pathway to find the truth.

[Blaine Alexander]

But before all that, we're heading back to Aurora, Colorado, where a dentist awaiting trial on charges of allegedly murdering his wife was back in court last week facing new charges. It all started back in 2023. James Craig was arrested for the first degree murder of his wife, Angela. Prosecutors say he poisoned her protein shakes with potassium cyanide and tetrahydrozoline, which is found in eye drops. Now, if this sounds familiar, it might be because we've talked about the case on the podcast here before. Last November, when Craig was set to go to trial. That is until his defense team withdrew at the last minute. On the day that jury selection was set to begin, Crime, our NBC affiliate KUSA 9 News in Denver reported on that development. He told the judge he'd received new.

[Tim Ewlinger]

Records in the case and asked to withdraw as Craig's attorney.

[Rachel White]

Barely 24 hours after that, prosecutors accused.

[Tim Ewlinger]

Craig of plotting murder and false testimony.

[Blaine Alexander]

At a hearing last week, we finally got to hear more about the murders that the prosecution says Craig had planned. DATELINE producer Tim Ewlinger was in the courtroom and he joins us now to tell us what he learned and where the case could go next. Tim, thank you so much for being here with us.

[Tim Ewlinger]

Thank you so much for having me. This story is really crazy to say the least.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah, it's got tons of twists and turns. So. So just to start, can you quickly just remind us, remind our listeners of the original crime that James Craig was accused of, the murder of his wife, Angela.

[Tim Ewlinger]

Yes, Blaine. Angela and James have been married for about 23 years. James had a dental practice where Angela at times worked as an office manager. In March of 2023, about two years ago, she had been feeling sick for several weeks and had been making trips to the ER and on her final trip, she was admitted in grave condition and then died. According to the arrest warrant, James, Craig's business partner, told a nurse at the hospital that James had recently ordered potassium cyanide to the dental practice. The nurse called police and Craig was arrested the next day.

[Blaine Alexander]

Wow. Okay. So I guess that begs the question, did Craig have any explanation for why he had that potassium cyanide?

[Tim Ewlinger]

Well, according to the arrest warrant, James told his business partner Angela had asked him to order the potassium cyanide and he believed she was suicidal.

[Blaine Alexander]

So what are investigators Saying about a motive. What are they pointing to there?

[Tim Ewlinger]

Well, there were emails with sexually explicit conversations and travel plans with a woman who was not Angela, first of all. And then, according to the arrest warrant, Angela's sister told police the marriage had always been tumultuous and that James had multiple affairs and had drugged Angela in the past.

[Blaine Alexander]

Okay, so fast forward to last fall, and Craig is hit with the other charges. Solicitation to commit murder and solicitation to commit perjury. What do we know about those accusations?

[Tim Ewlinger]

Well, Blaine, during the hearing last week, prosecutors revealed that Craig allegedly plotted to have four people killed. Prosecutors said Craig tried to get fellow inmate Nathaniel Harris to kill the lead detective investigating Angela's murder, another officer, and two other inmates who were in the same detention facility.

[Blaine Alexander]

Those are some mighty explosive allegations. My goodness.

[Tim Ewlinger]

Yes, they were.

[Blaine Alexander]

Tim, you were in court for this hearing. What did we learn about the prosecution's case?

[Tim Ewlinger]

The hearing took almost three hours, and prosecutors called two witnesses. One of the witnesses, a sergeant from the sheriff's office, said in an interview Harris, that other inmate had told him Craig offered him $20,000. Craig then allegedly contacted Harris's ex wife by two letters and offered, quote, essentially a blank check to help make up evidence of texts, phone records, photos, et cetera.

[Blaine Alexander]

Okay, Tim. So prosecutors are saying that these letters were part of Craig's plan to fabricate evidence. But I'm curious, through all of this, did James Craig have any sort of visible reaction as prosecutors were talking through all of this new evidence?

[Tim Ewlinger]

Well, at one point, Blaine, during the preliminary hearing, he had been referred to as, quote, unquote, the murder dentist. And I did see him flinch at that point.

[Blaine Alexander]

Craig is now on his third defense team. What did his lawyers have to say at the hearing?

[Tim Ewlinger]

The new attorney said there wasn't any testing or verification of the handwriting in those letters to tie it back to Craig. But the judge ultimately decided that the prosecution had the evidence that they needed for the burden for the charges to be brought to trial.

[Blaine Alexander]

And what's notable, this is not the first time that Craig has been accused of interfering with his case from jail. Right. Prosecutors say that he has allegedly asked other inmates to help him fabricate evidence twice before this.

[Tim Ewlinger]

Yes, it's really unusual. Last May, a detective said at a hearing that James Craig had asked a fellow inmate to help place letters at his house that would seem to have been written by Angela stating that she was suicidal. James allegedly promised the inmate free dental work or to post bail in exchange for help. The defense said the inmate had glaring credibility Issues, including an active arrest warrant when he contacted police. Then last September, a detective testified that James had sent a letter to a man who had been in jail with him, asking him to help him find women who would be willing to testify that they had had an affair with him and that when Andrea learned about the affairs, she asked the women to help her frame James for a crime.

[Blaine Alexander]

So it seems, Tim, that we know a lot about the prosecution's case from evidence that they've talked about in documents or in hearings in court. What do we know about what James Craig's defense is going to look like?

[Tim Ewlinger]

Well, it's a little difficult on that right now because they haven't really had a chance to present what they might want to do in trial. And we always have to remember, you know, innocent until proven guilty. So far, based on what James has told investigators, he seems to be sticking to his story that Angela was having suicidal thoughts and may have poisoned herself. So there's a lot we don't know. He's pleaded not guilty to first degree murder and to two charges of tampering with evidence. Last week, he also pleaded not guilty to those new charges. But ultimately, we're really waiting for a trial to hear what the defense's case is.

[Blaine Alexander]

Any idea when we will actually see a trial in this?

[Tim Ewlinger]

Well, you know, as you know, the trial has been moved three different times, but we do think it may start in the middle of July and lead up until probably the beginning of August.

[Blaine Alexander]

So we'll be watching very closely this summer. Tim, thank you so much for following all of this and joining us today.

[Tim Ewlinger]

Oh, thank you so much, Brian. Take care.

[Blaine Alexander]

Up next, a Hawaii man is standing trial for the second time on charges he murdered his wife's ex lover last week. Jurors got to hear from him for themselves.

[Tim Ewlinger]

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[Rachel White]

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[Blaine Alexander]

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[Tim Ewlinger]

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[Tim Ewlinger]

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Disease symptoms develop or worsen serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentix or cosentix.com Ask your rheumatologist about Cosent in Honolulu. It's the final days of Eric Thompson's murder trial. He's accused of killing John Tokuhara, the acupuncturist his wife had a brief affair with back in 2022. He and his lawyers were undecided until the last minute on Eric taking the stand in his own defense. But Thursday afternoon he was sworn in. You saw me swear confirmed that the testimony we're about to give should be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but true. Yes. And he stayed on the stand for three days. DATELINE associate producer Kelly Moody was inside the courtroom and she joins me now to tell us what Eric says happened between him and his wife Joyce and what he was doing that January evening when John Tokuhara died. Kelly, thanks so much for joining us today.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, you bet.

[Blaine Alexander]

First, just kind of remind us what Eric Thompson is accused of.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah. So Eric Thompson is charged with murder in the second degree. John Takahara was killed in January of 2020 it was his mother who actually found him. Devastating. A month later, Eric Thompson was arrested. And the prosecution says that he disguised himself, that he parked his truck down the street from John's clinic and burned the clothes that he was wearing afterward. But he had made a mistake, according to the prosecution, by dropping this white bucket hat. The hat was then tested, and in the first trial, a criminalist from the Honolulu PD crime lab testified that it was only likely that it was Thompson's DNA that was on the hat, but it wasn't 100% conclusive.

[Blaine Alexander]

What is the defense saying in all of this?

[Keith Morrison]

So the defense has argued, and now Eric has testified that he wasn't angry at John and never confronted him about this affair. And then his alibi was that he was actually on a completely different part of the island dumping construction waste at the time that John was shot. And Eric's first trial back in July to August of 2023, actually ended in a hung jury. So this is the second go around.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah. So far, it's been pretty similar to the first trial. Right. Are the same witnesses being called here?

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, the prosecution has made pretty much the same case and called a lot of the same witnesses, including two of the men whose partners also had affairs with John Takahara. One of the men was the first person that police had actually looked at. Darryl Fujita.

[Tim Ewlinger]

He was dating my ex girlfriend. It's all good.

[Keith Morrison]

Whatever the prosecution is saying, we looked at them and we ruled them out, leaving then Eric Thompson as their sole suspect.

[Blaine Alexander]

So one of the big pieces in all of this is that white bucket hat. What's happening with the new testing on that hat?

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, the white bucket hat is the proverbial glove, if you will. For Eric's second trial, the prosecution asked a new lab called Cyber Genetics to look at the evidence. And the short story here is that the inside of the crown of the hat and the side of the hat showed that Daryl Fujita did not wear that hat. And Eric Thompson was 16.4 trillion times more likely to have worn the hat on cross. Defense notes that different pieces of evidence were actually stored together, and they're then implying that this could have been cross contamination.

[Blaine Alexander]

On Thursday, Eric Thompson took the stand in his own defense.

[Keith Morrison]

Right. So it took a bit for them to actually decide if Eric was going to take the stand himself. In the second trial. He did. In the first trial, as the defense was questioning him, they talked a lot about his relationship with his wife, Joyce. They were high school sweethearts. They showed their prom photos. Eric said that their relationship was definitely one where opposites attracted, that they each did their own thing. Which of course was aiming at countering what the prosecution had said in opening statements. That he was controlling and that they had the surveillance cameras on the house that he was looking at when he was away. I let her do her thing. I probably didn't even pick out that suit myself.

[Rachel White]

I think Joyce took care of everything.

[Blaine Alexander]

And of course, the big elephant in the room is his wife's affair. Right. Has Eric testified about it and how has he reacted to that portion of this?

[Keith Morrison]

So Eric has testified that they were able to put the affair behind them and they've been able to carry on with normal life. So he talked a lot about what happened on January 12, 2022 for him. That's the day that John Tokahara died. So he testifies that he had a pretty normal day. He had been doing a lot of construction around his house and he was driving a bunch of bricks over to the dump. And then later in the evening, he went to the grocery store to buy the special milk that they give their toddler.

[Rachel White]

Whole dha.

[Keith Morrison]

It's good for brain development. So we always try and get it to her. And he went to buy beer.

[Rachel White]

Where were you going to get beer from? Any lungs.

[Keith Morrison]

I like natural ice beer.

[Rachel White]

Natty ice.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah.

[Keith Morrison]

And a lot of that movement was captured on the Thompson security cameras as well as neighboring surveillance cameras.

[Rachel White]

What's going on in your mind?

[Keith Morrison]

How are you and Joyce doing?

[Rachel White]

Better than ever. Pretty good. Were there any triggers at this point regarding John Tokuhara?

[Blaine Alexander]

Was it.

[Rachel White]

Was he on your mind?

[Tim Ewlinger]

Was there any angst or anger?

[Rachel White]

No, not at all. I mean, no, that was. It wasn't an issue at all for months.

[Blaine Alexander]

But then, of course, he faced cross examination by the prosecution. Were they able to land any blows? Anything major there?

[Keith Morrison]

Cross has been pretty focused on doing a compare and contrast of Eric's testimony at his first trial and what he's saying now.

[Blaine Alexander]

He made her call up her parents and admit that she was having an affair.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Correct.

[Rachel White]

Eventually that call did happen.

[Keith Morrison]

I mean, it was part of. It's complex.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

In your previous testimony, you said you.

[Blaine Alexander]

Wanted her to own up to it, right?

[Rachel White]

I'm not sure.

[Blaine Alexander]

If you could please turn to exhibit 402, page 155. Let me know when your memory is refreshed.

[Rachel White]

Yes, I did say that.

[Blaine Alexander]

What is left to go in this trial?

[Keith Morrison]

It's off to the jury. So now we are waiting to see what will be the verdict in the second trial for Eric Thompson.

[Blaine Alexander]

This is truly a fascinating case. Kelly, thanks so much.

[Keith Morrison]

Yeah, you're welcome.

[Blaine Alexander]

Coming up, it's DATELINE roundup. Big rulings from the judge in Bryan Kohberger's case, drama at the courthouse before Karen Reed's second trial, and more about the arrest of the leader of a cult like group called the Zizians, which police have connected to murders from Pennsylvania to California. Plus, Keith Morrison will be here to talk about Murder in the moonlight, his latest podcast series. Hey, I'm Paul Scheer. I'm June Diane Rayfield. And I'm Jason Manzoukas. And we're the hosts of how did this Get Made? A comedy podcast where we deconstruct, make fun of and celebrate the best worst movies ever made.

[Tim Ewlinger]

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[Josh Mankiewicz]

Hey, Blaine.

[Blaine Alexander]

How are you? I'm good. Glad to have you with us. So we've got a lot to talk about. First up, we are off to Dedham, Massachusetts, for an update in the Karen Reed case. And you'll remember she's the woman accused of drunkenly backing her SUV into her police officer boyfriend, John O' Keefe, back in 2022 and leaving him to die in the snow.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah. As our listeners might remember, Reid went to trial, but there was a hung jury, and so her retrial is set to start in April.

[Blaine Alexander]

Okay, so what's the news that we have in the run up to this retrial?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So Reed was in court on Tuesday for a motions hearing. All of a sudden, about halfway through the day, the judge suspended it. And this is what she said when she addressed the courtroom.

[Blaine Alexander]

Commonwealth just provided the court with information.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

That causes me grave concern.

[Tim Ewlinger]

The implications of that information may have.

[Keith Morrison]

Profound effects on this defense and defense counsel.

[Blaine Alexander]

So what information is the judge talking about here?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

She didn't say exactly. But just before she ended the hearing, the prosecution was discussing the defense's contracting of a called arca. And ARCA works on accident reconstruction. And if you remember, in Reed's first trial, the defense brought two ARCA experts to the stand, and they testified that the damage on Reed's SUV could not have been from hitting a pedestrian, I. E. John o' Keefe. The prosecution is now alleging that the defense withheld information from the prosecution and the court about those contracted experts. And they say that the defense never disclosed that the experts received $23,000 for their testimony, nor that defense collaborated with the experts on that testimony. The jury was told that they were retained independently.

[Blaine Alexander]

Wow. So those are some pretty big accusations about testimony that was really important for the defense. So what happens next year?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So the hearing's been rescheduled for next week, so we'll see if the judge shares any more information about her decision to end the hearing early, and we'll see if she allows those experts back for Reed's second trial, which again is set for April.

[Blaine Alexander]

Next, let's go to Idaho. And there is some big news in the case of Brian Coburger, the man accused of fatally stabbing four University of Idaho students back in 2022. Rachel, what did we learn about this one?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Well, Blaine, there's a gag order in place, so there's a lot that the public still doesn't know about this case. But as the court has been gearing up for the summer's trial, there have been some hearings that talk about possible evidence in the case. So we've known for a while now that Coburger was initially charged with the murders based on detect, allegedly matching His DNA to DNA found on a knife sheath left at the crime scene. But his defense has made this bombshell new claim. They revealed recently that detectives found blood at the crime scene from two additional males, both of whom are still unidentified.

[Blaine Alexander]

So the defense here is possibly laying the groundwork for alternate suspects. Right. Do we know where that blood was found at the scene?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

One male's blood was found on a railing inside the house where the four students were killed. And a different male's blood was found on a glove outside the house. Kohberger's defense alleges that the police failed to disclose those unidentified blood samples to a judge when they sought that warrant for Kohberger's arrest in December of 2022. And the prosecution has not disputed it.

[Blaine Alexander]

So the defense was arguing the arrest warrant should be thrown out. But just this Wednesday, Judge Steven Hippler issued his ruling on the defense's motions to suppress the DNA information, arrest warrants, and Coburger's cell phone data. So all of that will actually be allowed in the trial this summer.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Exactly.

[Blaine Alexander]

Finally, we're off to western Maryland for an update in a case that we first told you about a couple of weeks ago. Investigators linked the murders of an elderly man in California, a husband and wife in Pennsylvania, and the fatal shooting of a Vermont border guard to a group of young people called the Zizians. What's the news there, Rachel?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So the group's leader, known as Ziz, legal name Jack Lasoda, was arrested last weekend in western Maryland. Lasota was charged with trespassing, having a handgun in a vehicle and obstructing and hindering, all of which are misdemeanors.

[Blaine Alexander]

Now, police have arrested someone else here, too.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah, two other people in fact. One Michelle Zyko, another Zizian who was a person of interest in the Vermont border guard shooting, plus the murders of that Pennsylvania couple who were actually Zycho's parents. Zyko was also only charged with misdemeanors.

[Blaine Alexander]

Rachel, thanks so much for bringing us all of that. We are so glad to have you on today.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Thank you, Blaine.

[Blaine Alexander]

For our final story this week, we are joined by a very special guest, the most special of guests. Keith Morrison is here to talk about his brand new original podcast, Murder in the Moonlight. Hi, Keith.

[Rachel White]

Hello, Blaine. Thank you for having me on your program today.

[Blaine Alexander]

Well, I'm so glad to have you here. This story, this is a fascinating one. It starts in Murdoch, Nebraska. It's a small farming town and you have this line in there in the first episode that I love where it says heads turn when a stranger is drives by. And. And it really feels like that kind of small town where everybody knows everybody. Where that really is is true.

[Rachel White]

Exactly. A small, very cohesive town. And one of the finest families in town was headed by a couple who were just about as fine as a husband and wife could be. They'd raised a wonderful family. They'd run a successful agricultural business. They had done everything that they should do. They'd done it all right for many years. And then something happened.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

The minister called and they said, your.

[Rachel White]

Mom, dad have been killed.

[Tim Ewlinger]

Never in a million years would you.

[Keith Morrison]

Think that you'd see your parents house taped off.

[Blaine Alexander]

The farm taped off by that yellow tape.

[Rachel White]

Investigators focused early on somebody close to the victim who was a bit of a ne' er do well. And he and a cousin of his were pinned for the crime. Then the question was, did they do it or didn't they do it? In fact, one of them confessed. So that, that kind of made it look pretty obvious that they did. But things developed from there. I don't want to give away too much, you know.

[Blaine Alexander]

No, but that's one heck of a tease. You know, a couple of things about this podcast stand out. We get to see two very different sides of an investigation. There's some really great detective work that happens and then there's some not so great detective work that happens. And so investigators figure out pretty quickly that there were two people in the house that night. How did they even do that?

[Rachel White]

One of the titles that we thought we might choose for our story, we didn't in the end, but we were thinking about it was Blood Shadow. And the reason was a rifle was fired at one of the victims. It created a blood spatter which traveled across a hallway and hit a wall. But on the wall was a person shape where there was no blood spatter, which indicated that there was somebody else involved in addition to the main shooter.

[Blaine Alexander]

Interesting. Wow, that's. How's that for highlighting some detective work? So the story starts in Murdoch, Nebraska, but it doesn't stay there. It ends up being a multi state investigation involving several law enforcement agencies. Right.

[Rachel White]

It was a crime that was solved until it wasn't solved. It was. It was wrapped up quite neatly in a bow and then suddenly. Oh, maybe not. This was a story in which there is. And it doesn't happen that often, but. But I like to point it out when it does. You're familiar with the term MacGuffin, which is that kind of small, apparently insignificant thing that eventually turns a tail on its head. This story has a, has a pure MacGuffin. It's just quite an interesting one. You know, somebody found a gold ring in a place where it didn't belong, in an otherwise scrupulously clean kitchen, and nobody could figure out who it belonged to. So whose was it and where did it come from? Then you go on a long and winding pathway to find the truth.

[Blaine Alexander]

So we've got some sound from an upcoming episode. It features an unsuspecting woman in Buffalo, New York, who was running a jewelry manufacturing business. Police asked for her help in tracking down who might have bought the ring, just in case it was one of the killers. Here's that sound.

[Tim Ewlinger]

So I started with just box number one, stores one through 25. Then box number two, stores 25 through 30.

[Rachel White]

And you went through each one?

[Blaine Alexander]

Yes, until I got to like 100, and I believe it was 108 or 118.

[Keith Morrison]

I said, this is going to be impossible.

[Rachel White]

How long did that process take?

[Tim Ewlinger]

It took me probably three days and two nights.

[Rachel White]

Does that seem a little over the top? I mean, you can look for an hour or so and say, well, I can't find it, sorry. And that would be that.

[Tim Ewlinger]

I heard homicide.

[Rachel White]

I heard it was important. The woman you've just heard is, is in my mind, the hero of the story because she goes above and beyond. There were a lot of old files. You know, she had to go through stacks and stacks and stacks of them, which she did one by one to look at all the invoices for all the, the gold rings that were ordered from that jewelry shop in Buffalo. The question of whether she finds it, an otter finds out where it went would become crucial to this entire investigation.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah, this was definitely a fascinating one, Keith. I can't wait to listen to the entire series. It's fantastic. And next week, episodes will be dropping on Monday and Wednesday. So, Keith, we've got a lot of stuff to look forward to. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Rachel White]

Thank you, Blaine. Take care.

[Blaine Alexander]

That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. Andrea Canning will be right back here with you next week. If you want to find out more about the cases featured on our podcast, check out our [e-mail] and to get ad free listening for all of our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium. Coming up this Friday on Dateline, Andrea has an all new two hour episode. Two schoolgirls murdered in the woods of Delphi, Indiana. For years, the case went unsolved. Police were at a standstill except for one clue, a grainy picture and a gravelly voice captured on one of the girls cell phones.

[Tim Ewlinger]

They had to be scared out of their minds.

[Blaine Alexander]

The voice of the killer.

[Rachel White]

The voice of the killer.

[Blaine Alexander]

Could these girls help solve their own mystery? Watch A Walk in the woods airing this Friday at 9, 8 Central on NBC or stream it starting Saturday on Peacock. Thanks so much for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Frannie Kelly and Katie Ferguson. Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown. Kuriloff production and fact checking help by Sara Kadir. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Ryson Barnes is head of audio production. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline. Okay, anything else? All right, thanks very much. Bye bye.

[Tim Ewlinger]

Hey, everybody. Conan o' Brien here with an ad about my podcast. Conan o' Brien needs a friend. I've had so many fantastic conversations with people I truly admire people like Michelle Obama, Bruce Springsteen, Maya Rudolph, Tom Hanks. New episodes are out every Monday and we have a really good time. So subscribe and listen wherever you get your podcasts.