An urgent manhunt in Ohio. A widow stands trial a third time. Plus, a deep dive on arson investigations.

Summary

Dateline: True Crime Weekly – January 8, 2026

Episode Summary

Main Theme:
This episode, hosted by Lester Holt with contributions from the Dateline team, covers three major crime stories making headlines in early 2026: an urgent double homicide manhunt in Ohio, the retrial of a widow in Georgia accused of poisoning and killing her husband, and a deep dive into the science and challenges of arson investigations. Regular New England and California case updates round out the news, with expert commentary and behind-the-scenes journalism.

---

1. BREAKING: Double Homicide Manhunt in Columbus, Ohio

Segment Start: [02:10]

Overview

Police are searching for the killer of Dr. Spencer Tepe and his wife Monique, who were shot dead in their home on December 30. Their two young children were found unharmed in the house. NBC’s Ryan Chandler brings the latest developments.

Key Details & Insights

• Victims: Spencer (dentist) and Monique Tepe (childhood education specialist), late 30s, described as a devoted, joyful couple deeply connected with their community.

  “They were extraordinary people whose lives were filled with love, joy and deep connection to others.” — Ryan Chandler [03:26]

• Discovery:

  • Multiple 911 calls around 9–10am after Spencer didn't show for work and a friend heard the children inside.
  • Police found both adults shot, with their children and family dog unharmed in another room.

  “There’s a body. There’s a body.” — 911 caller relayed by Ryan Chandler [04:49]

• Investigation:

  • No sign of forced entry. No firearm recovered, but three 9mm shell casings found inside.
  • The Columbus PD released a brief security video showing a ‘person of interest’—face covered, dark hoodie, head down, seen in a snowy alley near the Tepe home.
  • Ongoing plea to public for information, especially from 2–5am on the night of the murders.

• Possible History of Trouble:

  • Fox News obtained a 911 call from the Tepe address in April 2025, logged as a domestic dispute. The family denies the caller is Monique.
  • Children are safe with family, as is family dog.

Notable Quotes

• “Their demeanor, their face is covered, the hoodie is up, hands are in their pockets and their head is down as they're walking along this snowy alley near the Tepe residence…” — Ryan Chandler [06:19]

---

2. Widow on Trial a Third Time: The Susan Embert Case

Segment Start: [10:02]

Overview

Susan Embert stands trial for a third time, accused of staging her husband Jake’s suicide and poisoning him over months in Georgia in 2014. The case has involved a volatile combination of botched evidence, family suspicions, and multiple retrials.

Key Details & Insights

• Background:

  • Jake was found dead of a gunshot wound in 2014, ruled at first a suicide (no autopsy, body released and cremated promptly).
  • Months later, family suspicions (illnesses, isolation) led to investigation; Susan charged with murder and aggravated assault (alleged poisoning).

• First Trial:

  • Prosecution claimed Susan staged the death, presenting hair sample tox reports showing DEET, antifreeze, arsenic, and other heavy metals allegedly administered by Susan.
  • Defense countered chain-of-custody issues and alternative environmental exposures.
  • Conviction in 2019 led to life sentence.

• Appeals & Mistrial:

  • 2024: Conviction thrown out due to ineligible juror.
  • December retrial ended in mistrial when the coroner mentioned "antifreeze"—in violation of a ruling that tox lab evidence (from a now-discredited laboratory) could not be used.

  “About an hour into his testimony, the coroner said the word ‘antifreeze.’ Our team said you could hear people gasp in the courtroom.” — Marissa Meyer [16:02]

• Current (Third) Trial:

  • New prosecution team; poison not mentioned in opening statements.
  • Prosecution to call a shooting reconstruction expert.
  • Family remains determined to see justice for Jake.

Memorable Moments

• “She steadfastly maintains her innocence. — Did you do what you're accused of doing? No, I did not.” — Susan Embert, relayed by Lester Holt [11:47]
• “Jake’s family told us that Susan tried to isolate him from the family. She took over his finances and his email accounts. That's something that Susan denies doing.” — Marissa Meyer [13:35]

---

3. Dateline Roundup – Latest True Crime Developments

Segment Start: [19:21]

A. Michelle Troconis: Hearing in Jennifer Dulos Case

• Context: Michelle Troconis, convicted in 2024 as a conspirator in Jennifer Dulos’ murder, is in court for a habeas petition claiming ineffective counsel.
• Significance: Judge’s choice to hold a hearing indicates the claim has merit worth exploring.
• Attorney Testimony:

  “She wanted to talk to them… but my advice at that time was don’t talk to them.” — Andrew Bowman [20:57]

• Next Steps: More hearings set for January 9 and 16; judge’s decision pending.

B. Uvalde Responding Officer Trial

• Defendant: Adrian Gonzalez, former school police officer, charged with 29 counts of abandoning/endangering a child during the Robb Elementary shooting response.
• Key Defense Argument:

  “Adrian Gonzalez did the best he could with what he knew at the time.” — Gonzalez’s attorney (Scott Coleman) [22:23]

• Trial: Expected to last two weeks; max penalty two years if convicted.

C. Hollywood Parents Murder Arraignment Delay

• Case: Nick Reiner (accused in the deaths of Michelle & Rob Reiner) had his arraignment delayed when his high-profile attorney, Alan Jackson, stepped down unexpectedly.
• Attorney’s Statement:

  “Circumstances beyond our control, but more importantly, circumstances beyond Nick’s control, have dictated that.” — Alan Jackson [23:17]

• Status: Now represented by public defender, next arraignment in February.

---

4. Deep Dive: The Science of Arson Investigation

Segment Start: [23:57]

Expert Guest:

Scott Coleman, California Conference of Arson Investigators

Key Points

• Why Arson is Hard to Prove:

  • Fire destroys evidence and, ironically, evidence is often further damaged/removed during firefighting efforts.

  “As we all think of fire, by its very nature, it’s destructive… and sometimes your evidence.” — Scott Coleman [24:53]

• First Steps:

  • First-responder firefighters are the first ‘eyes and ears,’ reporting signs like smoke color, flame behavior, etc.
  • Investigators follow the “scientific method,” examining exterior/interior, documenting damage and working back to cause.

  “We’re just documenting everything as it is. The smoke staining the windows, your electrical meter, your gas meter…” — Scott Coleman [25:38]

• Accelerant Detection:

  • Use of canines and chemical testing. Canines help pinpoint collection sites; only the lab can confirm presence of accelerant.

  “Only then once the lab confirms it, can we testify that that was in fact an accelerant.” — Scott Coleman [26:48]

• New Technology:

  • 3D imaging cameras now allow fire investigators to create detailed models enabling ‘walkthroughs’ of fire scenes for later review and courtroom presentation.

  “I can put this camera throughout a structure and in less than 20 minutes… anyone at any time in the future can walk through that room with me almost in real time…” — Scott Coleman [27:31]

---

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On the Tepe family murder:
  “No signs of forced entry. There was not a firearm recovered at the scene.” — Ryan Chandler [05:12]

• On the Embert case’s shifting narrative:
  “This has been incredibly difficult on them. But they remain deeply committed to their father and what they say is their mission of finding justice for him.” — Marissa Meyer [17:01]

• On arson difficulties:
  “The primary role of the fire department is to protect life and property.” — Scott Coleman [25:21]

---

Episode Structure & Flow

• Each major segment begins with a headline and context-setting.
• The episode is brisk and informative, with back-and-forth between Lester Holt, field correspondents and producers.
• The tone remains thoughtful, empathetic and professional, with direct sourcing and the use of court and police audio for impact.

---

Timestamps For Important Segments

• [02:10] Double homicide manhunt in Columbus, Ohio
• [10:02] Susan Embert’s third trial and backstory
• [19:21] Crime news roundup (Troconis/Dulos habeas case, Uvalde officer, Reiner case update)
• [23:57] Deep dive: how arson investigations work

---

Conclusion

This episode showcases the evolving nature of true crime reporting—blending real-time investigative updates with in-depth storytelling and expert explanation. Dateline’s team leverages their reporting resources for gripping, accessible, and nuanced perspectives on cases that are still far from over.

Transcript

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[Mike Nardi]

Hey, good morning.

[Lester Holt]

You are listening in to the DATELINE story meeting the first one of 2026.

[Marissa Meyer]

It's been a crazy week for everybody.

[Lester Holt]

Our producers have lots of crime news to catch up on.

[Mike Nardi]

What's the motive? The sister was saying it was like.

[Ryan Chandler]

A crime of passion.

[Lester Holt]

Welcome to DATELINE True Crime Weekly. I'm LESTER HOLT. It's January 8th and here's what's on our docket. In Georgia, a woman is on trial for her husband's murder for the third time.

[Marissa Meyer]

The prosecution plans to call a new witness who is an expert in shooting reconstruction.

[Lester Holt]

In DATELINE Roundup news from California in the case of murdered Hollywood couple Rob and Michelle Reiner and Michelle Traconis, the woman convicted of conspiring to murder Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer Doulos and is back in court.

[Mike Nardi]

The judge is going to hear testimony about the habeas petition.

[Lester Holt]

Plus, it's considered one of the most challenging crimes to investigate. Arson. An arson investigator gives us the lowdown.

[Scott Coleman]

What did the smoke look like? Where was it? What were the flames doing?

[Lester Holt]

But before all that, we're off to Columbus, Ohio, where police are on the hunt for a killer in the mysterious shooting deaths of a dentist and his wife. It's a case that has captured national attention in these early days of the new year.

[Ryan Chandler]

Turning now to a shocking double homicide. Police asking for the public's help to find A killer.

[Lester Holt]

The double murder of Dr. Spencer Tempe and his wife Monique, shot to death in their Wineland park row house in the early hours of December 30th. Their children left alive in another room. Their cries heard hours later by someone who called 91 1, I can hear.

[Ryan Chandler]

Kids inside and I swear I, I heard one yell, but we can't get in.

[Lester Holt]

It's been more than a week since Attep's bodies were discovered and the Columbus Police Department has remained tight lipped about the status of the investigation until now. On Monday, they released security video that could hold the key to the killer's identity and why this young couple was gunned down in their own home. Joining me now with the latest details is NBC News correspondent Ryan Chandler who has been covering the case since the beginning. Thanks for joining me, Ryan.

[Ryan Chandler]

Lester, pleasure to be here.

[Lester Holt]

To start. Tell us about Spencer and Monique Tepe.

[Ryan Chandler]

You know, it's been heartbreaking, Lester, but also heartwarming to hear how their family has remembered them this week. They remember them so lovingly and glowingly. They were a married couple in their late 30s and they had two young children, a one year old and a four year old. Spencer was an accomplished dentist at Athens Dental Depot. Monique had a background in childhood education and their family said that they had a deeply happy relationship, writing in a statement after their tragic deaths that they were extraordinary people whose lives were filled with love, joy and deep connection to others.

[Lester Holt]

So Ryan, can you lay out what happened on December 30? How did police find out that something was wrong?

[Ryan Chandler]

Well, we first got signs of trouble around 9am it actually came from a call to 911 from Dr. Mark Valrose. He's the owner of the Athens Dental Depot in Southeast Ohio. He's Spencer's boss. And he told police that Spencer hadn't shown up for work. He is always on time and he would contact us if there was any issues whatsoever. We're very, very concerned because this is very out of character. He also told officers that he couldn't even get in touch with Spencer's wife, which he said was even more concerning. And then less than an hour later, we hear another 911 call, this time from that unidentified male who said he heard the kids inside the home. And then a friend of Spencer's called 911 as well with a chilling update.

[Lester Holt]

There's a body. There's a body.

[Ryan Chandler]

There's a body inside. Yeah. So at that point, Police arrive around 10 o' clock in the morning. They find Spencer and Monique dead from Apparent gunshot wounds. Fortunately, their children, that one and four year old, were found in another room with the family's dog, all unharmed.

[Lester Holt]

Did police see any signs of forced entry or did they find the murder weapon?

[Ryan Chandler]

No signs of forced entry. There was not a firearm recovered at the scene. But according to to the police report, Officers did find three 9 millimeter shell casings inside the home.

[Lester Holt]

And Columbus police, we should point out, were quick to ask for the public's help in this.

[Ryan Chandler]

They, they were and they still are. On January 2nd, they asked anyone who might have any video, photos, digital evidence of any kind, even sightings of suspicious vehicles or people to come forward and bring that information to them. They have created an anonymous tip line. They're specifically asking for information from between the hours of 2 to 5am where they believe this shooting likely happened.

[Lester Holt]

Now this is interesting. On Monday evening, the Columbus police released security video of an individual, someone they say is a person of interest. Describe that video to us. Sure.

[Ryan Chandler]

So this seems like it comes from a NEST security camera. It's a very brief video, about 20 seconds, not great in quality, but it shows what appears to be a person wearing a black or a dark colored hoodie and gray or blue jeans. That in itself is, is not suspicious.

[Lester Holt]

It's.

[Ryan Chandler]

It's cold, it looks like there's snow on the ground. But their demeanor, their face is covered, the hoodie is up, hands are in their pockets and their head is down as they're walking along this snowy alley near the Tepe residence, according to police. Now they're asking the public once again for any tips on who this individual might be, anybody who might recognize them. They have not yet named a suspect or given any farther details about who that might be, though there was also.

[Lester Holt]

News of a 911 call placed from the couple's home back in April of 2025. What do we know about that?

[Ryan Chandler]

That's right, Lester. I'll preface this comes from Fox News. They say they've obtained a recording of a 911 call from the same address as the Tepes. Around 3am the morning of April 15, 2025. A caller from that home dialed 911, initially hung up and then the 911 dispatcher called back. And on that call you hear a woman in tears who tells the 911 dispatcher that, quote, me and my man got into it. She tells the officers that she no longer needs them to come to the home. The dispatcher goes back and forth, seemingly saying, are you sure? Do you need help? Trying to make sure that this woman, who we don't know the identity of yet is okay. The dispatcher at the time logged this as a domestic dispute, and Columbus officials didn't include a name for the caller in their dispatch logs. The Tepe family, though, has said that the voice on the call does not match Monique's.

[Lester Holt]

Ryan, before we go, I want to ask about the couple's children. What do we know about how they're doing so far?

[Ryan Chandler]

Well, they're safe with family members. They've been in their custody. Family members say that they're in very good hands, as is the family dog, Ryan.

[Lester Holt]

It's a, it's a tough story. One will be, of course, following as more details come in. Thanks very much for joining me, Lester.

[Ryan Chandler]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Lester Holt]

Coming up, a Georgia woman accused of staging her husband's apparent suicide 10 years ago is standing trial for a third time.

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[Lester Holt]

Our next story is the astonishing case of a Georgia woman by the name of Susan Embert It's a case that includes allegations of murder and poison. And we should warn listeners we'll also be talking about suicide. On the morning of June 28, 2014, Susan says she found her husband, William Jake Embert, dead from a self inflicted gunshot wound.

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[Lester Holt]

I can't believe he died. At first, police seemed to buy her story. But about eight months later, after getting new information from members of Jake's family, prosecutors charged Susan with his murder. And not just that, they charged her with aggravated assault, accusing her of trying to poison Jake in the months leading up to his death. Susan was convicted at trial in 2019 and sentenced to life in prison. But then in a massive twist in 2024, the Georgia Appellate Court threw out her conviction after her appellate attorneys discovered that one of the jurors at her trial had been ineligible to serve. Susan's retrial began this past December, only for that to hit a roadblock, too. Just days into the proceedings, the judge declared a mistrial. We'll get into why in a moment. This week, more than 10 years since her husband's death, Susan is standing trial for a third time. She steadfastly maintains her innocence. Did you do what you're accused of doing? No, I did not. DATELINE producer Marissa Meyer is joining us to tell us what might be different this time around. Hi, Marissa.

[Marissa Meyer]

Hi, Lester.

[Lester Holt]

So, Marissa, let's start with what you've learned about the relationship at the heart of it all. How did Susan and Jake Amber meet?

[Marissa Meyer]

So Susan and Jake met online in 2012 after Jake's divorce from his first wife. His family told us that Jake fell for Susan fast. The two got married in March 2013, sort of secretly. The family expected that there would be, you know, a wedding, but instead, the couple just went to city hall.

[Lester Holt]

So tell me more about the shooting of Jake Amber. What do we know about that?

[Marissa Meyer]

According to responding officers, they arrived to find Jake's body half lying on the bed with a handgun, his right hand and a gunshot wound to the head.

[Lester Holt]

So the coroner came to the scene, too. He seemed to make his mind up pretty quickly. He didn't even conduct an autopsy.

[Marissa Meyer]

That's right. And he released the body to Susan as next of kin within 24 hours. And then she, very shortly after had Jake cremated.

[Lester Holt]

So it was really a real 180. When prosecutors charged Susan with murder, how could they argue the shooting was a homicide and not a suicide?

[Marissa Meyer]

At Susan's first trial, the prosecution told the jury that Susan staged the scene to fool investigators. They argued that things like the bullet trajectories and the position of Jake's body proved that someone else had shot him.

[Lester Holt]

When did this idea of an alleged poisoning enter the picture?

[Marissa Meyer]

It really started with Jake's family. They found the suicide story fishy from the outset. Jake's son said he had been with his dad just before the shooting. And he told us that his dad seemed in a good mood. They were talking about the future. And it all made the family dig deeper into their suspicions.

[Lester Holt]

They were suspicious of Susan from the get go.

[Marissa Meyer]

They were really suspicious of Susan from the very beginning. Jake's family told us that Susan tried to isolate him from the family. She took over his finances and his email accounts. That's something that Susan denies doing. And one of the big things that had really stood out to them is that their dad, since he had married Susan, seemed to be getting sicker and sicker.

[Lester Holt]

Can you walk us through the timeline?

[Marissa Meyer]

Yeah. So about a month or two into their relationship, Jake had a heart attack, and Susan became his caregiver. She was handling his meals. And then from that point on, Jake's children said he started complaining about nausea, diarrhea, constant vomiting, and even sudden seizures. But the real turning point in the case came when Rachel, Jake's daughter, and gave her dad's hairbrush to a private investigator. And that investigator handed it off to the DA's office, who submitted it to a crime lab for testing.

[Lester Holt]

What did the lab find or determine?

[Marissa Meyer]

The results came back and showed several toxic chemicals in his hair sample. Things like deet, antifreeze, arsenic and other heavy metals. And in the first trial, the prosecutor said that Susan was poisoning Jake by putting the chemicals into his food since she was the one giving him all of his meals.

[Lester Holt]

Defense say about it?

[Marissa Meyer]

The defense really attacked the credibility of the hairbrush evidence. They zeroed in on concerns over chain of custody because it was found by Jake's daughter Rachel. And they also argued that Jake could have been exposed to those chemicals in a number of ways, such as being a heavy smoker or working on cars, things like that.

[Lester Holt]

Lots of things to consider. But obviously the jury at Susan's first trial bought the poison theory and convicted her. But since her conviction was overturned, things have become a little more complicated. Right?

[Marissa Meyer]

Yes. So that has been a huge twist in this case. The lab that came back with these results has been barred from doing forensic testing in criminal cases because of inaccurate results they provided in a different case in 2022. So when it came time for Susan's retrial, the judge ruled that prosecutors couldn't present the lab's tox report or any of its findings to the jury.

[Lester Holt]

Yeah, we should point out the lab issue is part of the reason that Susan's second trial was stopped in its tracks in December. Can you explain what happened there?

[Marissa Meyer]

Given the judge's ruling, anything that had to do with the tox report, any mention of the word antifreeze or other poisons allegedly found in Jake's hair sample was not supposed to be mentioned at all. But about an hour into his testimony, the coroner said the word antifreeze. Our team said you could hear people gasp in the courtroom. And Susan's defense team immediately jumped on the coroner slip up and they asked for a mistrial. And the judge agreed. And that brings us to where we are now.

[Lester Holt]

So a lot to catch up on here. Trial three is now underway. There is a new prosecutor in the case, and poison wasn't even mentioned in opening statements. Is there anything else different this time around?

[Marissa Meyer]

So one of the biggest things so far is that the prosecution plans to call a new witness who is an expert in shooting reconstruction.

[Lester Holt]

You know, all these twists and turns, though, they must be really, really hard on the family. Any idea how they're getting through this?

[Marissa Meyer]

I mean, this has been incredibly difficult on them. But they remain deeply committed to their father and what they say is their mission of finding justice for him.

[Lester Holt]

Thanks, Marissa. A fascinating case. We'll certainly be checking back with you.

[Marissa Meyer]

Thanks, Lest.

[Lester Holt]

Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup. The woman convicted of conspiring to murder mom of five, Jennifer Dulos is back in court. And a surprise announcement from Nick Reiners, defense attorney. Plus, how do arson investigators build their cases? An expert gives us the 101.

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[Lester Holt]

Welcome back, everyone. Joining us for this week's roundup is DATELINE producer Mike Nardi. Mike, thanks for being here.

[Mike Nardi]

Thanks for having me, Lester.

[Lester Holt]

For our first story, we're off to Rockville, Connecticut, where a familiar face is back in court for a hearing in the case of murdered mom of five, Jennifer Doulos. That person is Michelle Troconis. She's the woman convicted in May 2024 of conspiring with Jennifer's estranged husband to murder her, tamper with evidence and hinder prosecution. And that's where this leaves off for most people. Why is she back in court?

[Mike Nardi]

So the appeal that brought her to court this week was something called a habeas petition, which argues that Troconis ineffective counsel in 2019 when her then attorney, Andrew Bowman let her speak to police both before and after her arrest. Troconis team says Bowman didn't properly prepare her to speak to police and therefore Troconis deserves to be released from prison and granted a new trial. Monday was the first of three days when a judge is going to hear testimony about the habeas petition.

[Lester Holt]

I've covered a number of these and it can be a very big deal to get that day in court. How significant in this case is it that the judge is allowing this evidence evidentiary hearing to happen?

[Mike Nardi]

You're right, Lester. This is unusual. These types of hearings aren't guaranteed with every habeas petition. It's significant in that it means the judge believed there was enough evidence in the petition to warrant exploring it further in hearings. And that does not always happen.

[Lester Holt]

Andrew Bowman himself testified on Monday. What did he have to say?

[Mike Nardi]

He defended himself and said he actually advised her not to talk to police.

[Lester Holt]

She wanted to Talk to them. She could talk to them, but there are big risks in talking to them. And she could stop talking at any time. But my advice at that time was don't talk to them. So what's next in all this?

[Mike Nardi]

Troconis and her team will be back in Court on January 9th and the 16th to continue the hearing. And after that, the judge will have 120 days to issue a ruling on the petition.

[Lester Holt]

Okay. Now for our next story, we head to Corpus Christi, Texas, where a former school police officer is on trial, charged with 29 counts of abandoning and endangering a child. In 2022, Adrian Gonzalez was one of the first officers to respond to the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in UVALDE that left 19 students and two teachers dead. Mike, tell us more about this.

[Mike Nardi]

Gonzalez's charges are part of a larger investigation into the law enforcement response to the Uvalde shooting. Prosecutors allege the former officer failed to engage, distract, or delay the shooter. Gonzalez has pleaded not gu to the 29 charges against him. A jury was selected on Monday, and we heard some powerful opening statements on Tuesday.

[Lester Holt]

Yeah. In fact, let's listen to what Gonzalez as a defense attorney had to say in his defense.

[Ryan Chandler]

This is one of the worst things, one of the worst things ever happened in our country.

[Lester Holt]

It's awful.

[Scott Coleman]

But Adrian Gonzalez did the best he.

[Lester Holt]

Could with what he knew at the time. So, Mike, how long is this trial expected to last?

[Mike Nardi]

We're hearing that the trial is expected to last two weeks.

[Lester Holt]

What's the possible sentence in a case like this? If Gonzalez is, in fact convicted, he.

[Mike Nardi]

Faces up to two years in prison.

[Lester Holt]

Finally, we head to Los Angeles, where Nick Reiner, the man charged with killing his parents, Michelle and Rob Reiner, was set to be arraigned on Wednesday. But that didn't happen. Tell us why plans changed.

[Mike Nardi]

Well, as you know, Nick Reiner was being represented by Alan Jackson, the defense attorney known for representing big name defendants like Kevin Spacey, Harvey Weinstein, and Karen Reed. Jackson arrived at the courthouse for Nick's arraignment on Wednesday and made a stunning announcement. He was actually stepping down as Nick Reiner's counsel.

[Lester Holt]

Jackson gave his reasons at a press conference. Let's hear what he had to say.

[Scott Coleman]

Circumstances beyond our control, but more importantly, circumstances beyond Nick's control, have dictated that. Sadly, it's made it impossible for us to continue our representation of Nick. What we've learned, and you can take this to the bank, is that pursuant to the laws of this state, Nick Reiner is not guilty of murder.

[Lester Holt]

So what now? What happens next to Nick Reiner?

[Mike Nardi]

He's now being represented by a public defender, and his arraignment was rescheduled for February 23rd.

[Lester Holt]

Thanks for the updates, Mike.

[Mike Nardi]

Thanks, Lester.

[Lester Holt]

For our final story this week, we wanted to take a closer look at a type of crime scene analysis that is considered one of the most difficult there is. Arson investigation. Just a few months ago, we told you about the conviction of Paul Zumat, the California hookah bar owner who murdered his girlfriend and then set fire to her home in an attempt to cover up his crime. It didn't work. Thanks in part to the analysis of fire investigators at the scene. It made us wonder, what exactly goes into an arson investigation? We asked Scott Coleman, chair for regional training for the California Conference of Arson Investigators, to give us the basics. Scott, thanks so much for joining us.

[Scott Coleman]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[Lester Holt]

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which offers training to law enforcement around the country, they say that arsons can be notoriously difficult to prove. Why is that so?

[Scott Coleman]

As we all think of fire, by its very nature, it's destructive. It actually destroys and consumes your scene and sometimes your evidence. Secondly, as firefighters, when we arrive, we'll apply water, sometimes foam. We do tend to open up certain areas looking for any kind of concealed or hidden fires. But we just need to remember that the primary role of the fire department is to protect life and property.

[Lester Holt]

Yeah, I was going to ask that. Seems like a conflict that you're there to put out the fire, save lives. At the same time, you may be inadvertently destroying critical evidence. You've trained hundreds of firefighters to investigate fires. What does a typical arson investigation look like? How does it unfold?

[Scott Coleman]

The firefighters who are the first responders are the fire investigators, first eyes and ears on the scene. And. And so what we're asking is like, well, hey, what did the smoke look like? Where was it? What were the flames doing? Once it's secured for us to get in there, we as investigators, we follow what's called the scientific method. We'll start and do an exterior examination of all four sides. We're just documenting everything as it is. The smoke staining the windows, your electrical meter, your gas meter, then we then go into the interior. We start working to where we see the most amount of damage, and we'll identify that as the room of origin. We now reapply the scientific method all over again with what was the cause?

[Lester Holt]

We mentioned the case of Paul Zumat up top in this conversation. He's the California man convicted of murder and Arson. A first responder testified at his trial that he could smell the presence of an accelerant the day after the fire and that his accelerant sniffing dog. Yes, there is such a thing. Also marked it. So how important is it an observer like that to your analysis in a typical fire?

[Scott Coleman]

Okay, well, there's two things occurring there and the first one is you have a human being or a person identifying an odor similar to that of maybe a known accelerant. Okay, that's great. Then if your canine alerts, it'll get you to even a tighter area of where maybe the strongest possibility of ignitable liquids are. And the investigator will collect evidence from that area that the dog hit, put it into a specialized container, and they send it off to the lab. And only then once the lab confirms it, can we testify that that was in fact an accelerant.

[Lester Holt]

Is there any new tool or method that you guys are impressed by?

[Scott Coleman]

The one I'm using a lot and I really like is these 3D imaging model cameras. I can put this camera throughout a structure and in less than 20 minutes I have the ability to render a 3D image of that room or building as I see it. And anyone at any time in the future can walk through that room with me almost in real time and see what I observed.

[Lester Holt]

Well, Scott, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us and our audience. We appreciate it.

[Scott Coleman]

Thank you.

[Lester Holt]

That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. To get ad free listening from for all our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium. Dateline is off the air on NBC This Friday. You can watch the US Figure Skating Championships instead. But next Friday we'll be back with an all new episode from Keith Morrison. Also, there's a new podcast series from NBC News studios and highly replaceable productions. We think you should check out Dead Certain the Martha Moxley Murray murder. In 1975, 15 year old Martha Moxley was beaten to death with a golf club. Years later, Kennedy cousin Michael Skakel was convicted of the crime and then had his conviction overturned. In this series you'll hear new evidence in the case and exclusive interviews with people who have never talked before, including Michael Skakel himself.

[Ryan Chandler]

Can you tell me your name and why I might be interviewing you?

[Scott Coleman]

My name is Michael Skakel. And why am I being interviewed?

[Ryan Chandler]

I mean, that's kind of a big question, isn't it?

[Lester Holt]

Listen to Dead Certain the Martha Moxley Murder wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes are coming out Tuesdays through January 20th. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins, Caroline Casey and Keanu Reeves. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone Groth and Aria Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown. Kuriloff production and fact checking help by Audrey Abrahams. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.

[Marissa Meyer]

Hi, everyone.

[Lester Holt]

Choose to lean into it.

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[Mike Nardi]

I wake up.