Arson and alleged fratricide in New Jersey. New 911 calls in Microsoft employee murder. And sentencing murderers.

Summary

Dateline: True Crime Weekly

Episode Summary for September 18, 2025

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Episode Overview

On this episode, host Andrea Canning leads a fast-paced, insightful dive into some of the week’s biggest crime stories: the years-long wait for trial in a New Jersey arson and fratricide case, new 911 calls and interviews in the murder-for-hire plot targeting a Microsoft employee, and the complexities of sentencing convicted murderers. Andrea is joined by a roster of expert reporters and legal analysts for behind-the-scenes commentary, emotional courtroom moments, and thoughtful breakdowns of evolving legal cases across the country.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Arson and Alleged Fratricide in New Jersey

[01:54–08:55]

• Case Background:
  In 2018, days before Thanksgiving, a mansion in Colts Neck, NJ, owned by Keith Canero, caught fire. Keith was found shot dead on the lawn; his wife and two children were murdered inside, and the house was torched. Hours earlier, Keith’s brother Paul’s house had also burned, but no one was harmed there.
• Paul Canero Arrest:
  Paul, Keith’s older brother and business partner, was arrested – first for arson at his own home, then charged with the murder of his brother’s family.
• Delays and Motives:
  Paul has pleaded not guilty and awaits trial after nearly 7 years. Delays stem from COVID shutdowns, judicial shortages, and recent appeals around the admissibility of crucial security footage. The alleged motive: covering up financial misdeeds and hope of collecting on a life insurance policy.
• Reporter Insight:
  Sean Sullivan (NJ.com) outlines the prosecution’s case and delays:

  “There’s literally not enough judges on the bench. And that has caused delays. And then it’s just the evidence in this trial … the Supreme Court took that up. And so that’s now why we see another delay in this case.” (Sean Sullivan, 07:33)

Notable Quotes

• “It is simply not just to hold someone in jail seven years without having the opportunity to have their case tried.”
  – Paul Canero’s defense attorney at court (08:18)
• “The judge ruled that he still presented too much of a risk to the public, and so he is going to remain locked up indefinitely...”
  – Sean Sullivan (08:35)

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2. 911 Calls & Bombshell Interviews in Microsoft Employee Murder

[11:05–17:52]

• Overview:
  In 2022, Microsoft employee Jared Bridegan was ambushed and gunned down in Jacksonville Beach, FL, as he moved a tire from the road—his 2-year-old daughter in the car survived. Investigators say it was a murder-for-hire orchestrated by his ex-wife, Shanna Gardner, and her new husband, Mario Fernandez Saldana, amidst a bitter custody battle.

• New Evidence Released:
  Prosecutors made public previously unheard 911 calls and interviews, painting a chilling picture of the immediate aftermath and alleged planning.
  A friend of Shanna’s recounts hearing Mario threaten to “get four people and … take care of [Jared] and no one would ever know.”

  “There was nothing concerning from her. I mean, she kind of laughed it off.”
  – Elizabeth Smith, friend of Shanna Gardner (17:04)

• Behind the Scenes:
  Dateline producer Mike Nardi explains why prosecutors are publishing so much material pre-trial:

  “There’s been so much media attention … that they made a decision to start to release documents, release evidence. There’s just so much of it … they’ve been slowly, over the last several months last year, releasing bits and pieces.” (14:36)

911 Transcript Excerpt Highlights

• “There’s a guy in the middle of the road … he has a little kid in the car. My husband right now is holding her; she was crying.”
  – 911 caller (15:23)
• “He said … you know, I’m in the military. You know, I’ve killed people before.”
  – Elizabeth Smith, recalling Mario’s words (17:19)

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3. Dateline Roundup: Murder Trials, Attacks, and Doomsday Prophets

[20:12–24:18]

Brian Walsh Case (Massachusetts)

• Brian Walsh, awaiting trial for allegedly murdering his wife Ana, was stabbed in jail (non-life-threatening) and promptly returned to custody.
• Andrea and Alex Lerae discuss the impact of a lead detective’s misconduct (also investigated in a separate high-profile case), and the ongoing disputes over access to evidence.

Chad Daybell Speaks Out (Idaho)

• Convicted killer and self-styled doomsday prophet Chad Daybell is now writing publicly from death row, releasing letters online:

  “I am not the man the media has created. I am not a cult member who should be feared. I am not a conspirator or a killer.”
  – Chad Daybell, in his first letter from death row (23:47)

---

4. Crystal Rogers Case: Sentencing in ‘Kentucky's Trial of the Decade’

[24:27–25:59]

• Crystal Rogers, missing since 2015, was last seen alive by ex-boyfriend Brooks Hauk, who is now convicted of her murder.
• The sentencing was emotionally charged:

  “There will be some forgiveness for you if you tell me where my daughter is.”
  – Sherry Ballard, Crystal’s mother, addressing Hauk in court (25:24)
  Hauk received life in prison; co-defendant Joseph Lawson received 25 years.

---

5. The Complexities of Sentencing Murderers

[25:59–30:38]

• The team explores why sentences for murder vary so widely, sometimes ranging from a single year to life without parole.

• NBC News legal analyst Danny Savalos unpacks “indeterminate sentencing,” plea bargain dynamics, and state-by-state sentencing idiosyncrasies.

  “There are two different kinds of sentencing … Determinate sentencing, which means the judge announces a specific time, and indeterminate, which means you get a range ...”
  – Danny Savalos (28:03) “Cooperation can get you quite a ways.”
  – Danny Savalos, on the role of plea deals (28:51)

• Cases discussed for context include Utah mom Catherine Rastelli (possible 1–15 year range for murder due to plea and cooperation), and Texas’ rare “sudden passion” defense.

Insightful Commentary

• “If you put everything into a hat … the backgrounds, the personalities, where they’re from, what the crime was … it’s like a roulette table almost …”
  – Andrea Canning (29:45)

---

Notable Moments & Quotes

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |:---------:|-----------------------|-------| | 06:01 | 911 Dispatcher | “Laying down. Oh, my God, there’s blood here.”| | 07:33 | Sean Sullivan | “There’s literally not enough judges on the bench. And that has caused delays.”| | 17:19 | Elizabeth Smith | “You know, I’m in the military. You know, I’ve killed people before.”| | 25:24 | Sherry (Crystal’s mother) | “There will be some forgiveness for you if you tell me where my daughter is.”| | 28:51 | Danny Savalos | “Cooperation can get you quite a ways.”| | 29:45 | Andrea Canning | “It’s like a roulette table almost, with so many things spinning around.”|

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:54 – 08:55: Detailed breakdown of the Canero family murders and legal saga
• 11:05 – 17:52: Microsoft employee murder—new evidence, shocking interviews, and implications
• 20:12 – 24:18: Dateline Roundup: updates on Brian Walsh, Chad Daybell, and more
• 24:27 – 25:59: Crystal Rogers sentencing: emotional courtroom scenes
• 25:59 – 30:38: How sentencing works—and why it's unpredictable
• 30:38 – End: Credits, upcoming episode previews, and live event announcement

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a comprehensive look into long-delayed justice, the realities of plea bargains, and the emotional highs and lows of modern true crime cases. With exclusive audio evidence, open court confrontations, and encyclopedic legal insight, Dateline’s team continues to transform weekly crime coverage into compelling narrative journalism.

---

Transcript

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[Sean Sullivan]

There you are on the scene.

[Andrea Canning]

Our producers are swapping tips and story ideas. Let's keep track of it.

[Alex Lerae]

They're finding traces of blood in his car. They're finding a knife. They're finding a receipt for that gorilla mask.

[Andrea Canning]

Welcome to DATELINE True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's September 18th and here's what's on our docket. Three years after a Microsoft employee was gunned down in an alleged murder for hire plot, Florida prosecutors released interview tapes and 911 calls never heard by the public before.

[911 Dispatcher]

He has a little kid in the car.

[Andrea Canning]

She was crying in DATELINE roundup. I'll take you inside the courtroom for the sentencing in the Crystal Rogers murder trial, dubbed Kentucky's trial of the decade. And the latest on the jailhouse attack of a Massachusetts man accused of murdering his wife.

[Alex Lerae]

On Thursday night, Brian Walsh was stabbed in jail.

[Andrea Canning]

Plus, sentencing a murder might be more difficult than you think. NBC News legal analyst and defense attorney Danny Savalos explains why. But before all that, we're heading to New Jersey where a man has been behind bars for nearly seven years awaiting trial for the murder of his brother and his brother's entire family. November 2018, just a couple of days before Thanksgiving, firefighters responded to a house fire in the affluent community of Colts Neck, New Jersey. They found a million dollar mansion engulfed in flames and the body of 50 year old Keith Canaro shot dead on the front lawn. Inside, his wife and two young children were also found murdered in what appeared to be a targeted attack. And the tragedy didn't end there. Earlier that morning, a fire had broken out at Keith's brother's house in near Ocean Township. Paul Canero and his loved ones survived, but investigators couldn't ignore the question, were the two incidents linked? They had a surprising answer. The next day, Paul, the surviving brother, was arrested and accused of setting his own house on fire. And then days later, a local prosecutor announced additional charges against Paul for the murder of his brother and his brother's family.

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We allege that after murdering the Canero.

[Andrea Canning]

Family, the defendant then set fire to.

[National Debt Relief Advertiser]

To the house in an effort to.

[Andrea Canning]

Conceal and disguise his earlier committed crimes. That was nearly seven years ago, and Paul Canero still has not faced trial for the alleged quadruple homicide. He pleaded not guilty and was expected to face a jury earlier this month. But an unexpected move by the New Jersey Supreme Court stopped the trial in its tracks. Late last week, Paul's defense team said enough was enough. They went before a judge and demanded his release. Here to tell us why prosecutors believe Paul allegedly turned on his brother and why the case has taken so long to head to trial is Senior reporter for NJ.com Sean Sullivan. Shawn, thanks for coming on the podcast.

[Sean Sullivan]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so, Sean, to start, what do we know about these two brothers and their relationship?

[Sean Sullivan]

Yeah, so Paul was the older brother by about a year. And, you know, these were not just brothers. They were business partners who had been in what was essentially a family business for a long time. Heath had founded a tech company and then had also sort of spun off a side business that involved pest control.

[Andrea Canning]

And by all account, these two brothers had once been close. Keith was the best man at Paul's wedding.

[Sean Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah, they were, you know, just. They lived about 13 miles apart. And, you know, from outward appearances there, there wasn't really anything amiss. These guys were living the American dream.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And I, Sean, I've been to Colts Neck in New Jersey. A lot of beautiful homes, a lot of horse farms.

[Sean Sullivan]

Bruce Springsteen's house.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, well, you know, it's nice when Bruce Springsteen lives there. And Keith owned this mansion. You know, he seemed to have sort of the picture perfect life, Right.

[Sean Sullivan]

Yeah. Though it seemed like he was sort of an enormous amount of stress based on the, you know, the stuff that's come out pretrial.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And so Paul, as far as he goes, was he living as large as Keith?

[Sean Sullivan]

Not outwardly. I mean, Paul lived in nearby Ocean Township, and his house was by no means modest, but it, you know, it wasn't, you know, a mansion. But he did own three Porsches.

[Andrea Canning]

That's a lot.

[Sean Sullivan]

According to prosecutors, he had allegedly a mistress for whom he was also making car payments and I think an Audi. And so this was a Guy who had expenses and may have been dipping into the company till in order to keep up with that.

[Andrea Canning]

So, Sean, take us to the day of the fires.

[Sean Sullivan]

So on the night in question, we're talking middle of the night. Keith sends a couple text messages to his brother and says, you know, there's an issue, the power's out, and Keith goes outside to check on it. And what we know now is that the next morning, a neighbor sees smoke coming from the house, wanders over and finds Keith dead outside.

[911 Dispatcher]

There's a person laying down. Where are they?

[Andrea Canning]

Laying down.

[911 Dispatcher]

Laying down. Oh, my God, there's blood here.

[Sean Sullivan]

According to prosecutors, what Paul had done that evening was he had gotten into one of those Porsches and he drove, you know, the 13 miles from his house over to Colts Neck and cut the power. And then when Keith came out to inspect it, shot him dead before he then went into the house.

[Andrea Canning]

And according to prosecutors, that's when Paul murdered Keith's wife and children, too, and set the house on fire. After that, they allege, he headed back to his own house and set that on fire too, with his wife and children inside. They got out unharmed. So what do we know, Sean, about his alleged motive?

[Sean Sullivan]

Prosecutors sort of lay two tracks on this here. The first is a fairly straightforward kind of COVID up story where Paul had gotten caught by his brother taking money from the company till. Specifically, he was in charge of making payments to a trust fund that was related to Keith's life insurance policy, and he was allegedly diverting those payments. The COVID up motive is just that he got caught and he panicked. You know, the added layer here is this life insurance policy, which hall was a beneficiary of, but Keith's children and wife were primary beneficiaries. And so if they all went away, that only that solved his cover up problem. It also gave him a financial windfall. Basically, the prosecutor's version of events is that he eliminated everybody who was in his way of an insurance payout.

[Andrea Canning]

So seven years ago that all this took place, why has it taken so long for Paul Canero to go to trial?

[Sean Sullivan]

It starts with COVID The, you know, the fact that the pandemic made criminal trials impossible for a number of years. On top of that, New Jersey had a judicial shortage for a number of years, still has a judicial shortage. And so there's literally not enough judges on the bench. And that has caused delays. And then it's just the evidence in this trial. There's the issue involving security camera at Paul's house and how that was obtained. By police. The judge ruled that that security footage was not going to be admissible. Prosecutors appealed and actually the Supreme Court took that up. And so that's now why we see another delay in this case.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. So this is as of now is delayed until the new year. Paul's defense team demanded a hearing saying that it's unacceptable that Paul should remain behind bars since he's been in custody for nearly seven years. Let's take a listen to what his attorney had to say during this hearing. It is simply not just to hold someone in jail seven years without having the opportunity to have their case tried. And the judge's decision not so good for Paul Canerous about remaining behind bars.

[Sean Sullivan]

Yeah. The judge ruled that he still presented too much of a risk to the public and so he is going to remain locked up indefinitely until he gets that trial.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. We'll see if it happens in 2026 as expected. And we will certainly be keeping an eye on if there's any more delays in this. Thank you, Sean, so much for breaking this down for us. We appreciate it.

[Sean Sullivan]

Thank you for having me. Anytime.

[Andrea Canning]

Coming up, prosecutors release never before seen audio and video in an alleged murder for hire plot of a Microsoft employee and F4.

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[Andrea Canning]

For our next story, we're heading to a quiet stretch of road in Jacksonville Beach, Florida. In February of 2022, Microsoft employee 33 year old Jared Brideigan was driving his daughter home when he noticed a tire in the road. When he got out to move it, a gunman ambushed him. Bullets flew into the SUV where his two year old was buckled into her car seat. She survived, but Breidegan was declared dead at the scene. Detectives say they uncovered a murder for hire plot allegedly orchestrated by Brideigan's ex wife, Shanna Gardner and her new husband. Their alleged motive, an ongoing court battle over Gardner and Breidegun's children. After their arrest, both Gardner and her husband, Mario Fernandez Saldana, pleaded not guilty. Last week, prosecutors released some never before seen video and audio from the investigator's case file, including 911 calls from the crime scene.

[911 Dispatcher]

You might want to get somebody out here because I was 100% gunshot.

[Andrea Canning]

And a bombshell interview with a friend of Breideggan's ex wife.

[Elizabeth Smith]

He said, you know, I'm in the military. You know, I've killed people before.

[Andrea Canning]

Here to give us the latest on the case and this new evidence is DATELINE producer Mike Nardi who has been covering this since the beginning. Welcome back, Mike.

[Mike Nardi]

Thanks, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

So, Mike, remind us who Jared Breitegan was and what happened to him.

[Mike Nardi]

Jared was a Microsoft employee and a father of four. He shared twins, a boy and a girl with his his ex wife Shanna Gardner. After a bitter divorce, Jared later remarried and had two more children with his new wife. As I said, they had joint custody of the twins with his ex wife. And part of the agreement was that on the weeks he didn't have the kids, Jared got to take them out for dinner one night. And so In February of 2022, Jared had that dinner with the twins and then dropped them off at Shanna's house. And he was on his way home with his two year old in the backseat when the gunman struck Mike.

[Andrea Canning]

A year later, police arrested a man named Henry Tenen who admitted that he was in fact the gunman. But Tennin was a total stranger to Breidegan. How did the authorities connect him to the case.

[Mike Nardi]

They learned Tenen, who was a longtime felon, was actually a former tenant of Mario Fernandez Saldana, who is the new husband of Shanna Gardner, Bridegun's ex wife. The biggest clue, the way they were able to find Tennant, was video of a Ford truck in the neighborhood. And authorities were able to trace that back to Tennant. Tenen told prosecutors he was hired by Fernandez to carry out the hit. In March 2023, investigators arrested Fernandez and charged him with first degree murder, conspiracy, and child abuse. Because, remember, Brideigan's young daughter was in the car with him when he was killed.

[Andrea Canning]

And they arrested Brideigan's ex wife, Shanna not too long after that.

[Mike Nardi]

That's right. And you know, what we know about Shanna is she was from a respectable Mormon family with a lot of money. She's been described as a trust fund baby. And even though Shanna and had a custody arrangement settled, they were constantly going back and forth in court over finances, over the kids futures and what they should or should not be doing. So prosecutors believe that Shanna wanted Jared killed so she could get full custody of the kids, plus, she could also protect the trust fund.

[Andrea Canning]

So here we are now, 2025, and the state attorney's office has released a trove of material. Mike, you know, you don't always see this, right? Where state's attorneys release information before trial. Why do you think they did that?

[Mike Nardi]

There's been so much media attention and interest in this case that they had made a decision to start to release documents, release evidence. There's just so much of it that they can't do it all at once. So they've been slowly, over the last several months last year, releasing bits and pieces of the case. So that's sort of where this latest dump came from.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. And as we mentioned, some of that material was a chilling selection of 911 calls from the night of the murder.

[Mike Nardi]

That's right. That's right. And you know, what's interesting about these calls is they paint a picture of what happened in the moments after Jared was killed.

[911 Dispatcher]

Jacksonville Beach911. I'm pretty sure I just heard three or four gunshots. And now there's a bunch of cars that are backed up.

[Mike Nardi]

There appears to be. It seems like a lot of confusion from the people who are calling in.

[911 Dispatcher]

Hey, yes, I'm calling. There's a guy in the middle of the road on America Avenue. What's he doing? He's just laying there. I'm not sure he's having A heart attack or something. And he has a little kid in the car. My husband right now is holding her. She was crying. Is he conscious? He's unconscious.

[Mike Nardi]

So the dispatchers had to sort of figure out what was going on. Was it a car accident, a medical emergency or something? Much worse.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. What makes this the murder is sad enough, but then when you think about such a small child in the car while all of this is happening, it's heartbreaking.

[Mike Nardi]

Oh, absolutely.

[Andrea Canning]

So the next piece of audio in the materials released by the prosecutor was an interview they conducted with one of Shanna's former friends, a woman named Elizabeth Smith. She approached investigators after the murder and said she had information.

[Mike Nardi]

That's right. So she told investigators that she and Shanna had met in 2016. They had actually worked together as teachers and they became very close friends. Smith said Gardner was constantly complaining to her about Jared and about her court fights with him. She told her things had been getting really heated. They'd been going to court. And from what Smith said, Gardner really seemed fed up.

[Elizabeth Smith]

And she told you something along the lines of, Mario has a military background. He said he could get four people and break into his house in the middle of the night and, quote, take care of him and no one would ever know. Is that right?

[Andrea Canning]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Smith]

And Shanna said Mario said that in reference to Jared?

[Andrea Canning]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Smith]

And when she told you this, you found that very odd?

[Andrea Canning]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Smith]

What was her demeanor kind of when she was telling you this?

[Andrea Canning]

Very casual.

[Elizabeth Smith]

There was nothing concerning from her. I mean, she kind of laughed it off.

[Andrea Canning]

This friend also discussed an exchange she had with Mario Fernandez at a dinner party.

[Mike Nardi]

Yeah, that's right. She said he did something that made her very uncomfortable.

[Elizabeth Smith]

He said at some point, some point, you kind of looked at you and you caught a stare down. And what did he say? He said, you know, I'm in the military. You know, I've killed people before.

[Andrea Canning]

Just a reminder, Shanna, Gardner and Fernandez have said that they are innocent and have pleaded not guilty. Have there been any comments, Mike, from the defendants now that these tapes have been released?

[Mike Nardi]

Not that we've seen, no.

[Andrea Canning]

They are heading to court later this week for a preliminary hearing and we'll be following this case as things move along. Thanks so much for the updates, Mike.

[Mike Nardi]

Thanks for having me, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Up next, it's time for DATELINE Roundup. A Massachusetts man accused of murder is attacked behind bars. And convicted killer and self proclaimed doomsday prophet Chad Daybell is speaking out from death row. Plus, NBC News legal analyst Danny Savalos on why sentencing murderers isn't always straightforward.

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[Andrea Canning]

Welcome back. Joining me for this week's roundup is DATELINE associate producer Alex Lerae. Alex, welcome back to the podcast.

[Alex Lerae]

Hi, thanks for having me, Alex.

[Andrea Canning]

For our first story, we're heading back to the scene of Karen Reed's murder trial, Norfolk Superior Court in Massachusetts, where next month another trial we've been following is expected to begin in that same courthouse. In this case, Brian Walsh is accused of killing his wife Ana. He has pleaded not guilty. And Alex, remind us what we know about this case so far. Sure.

[Alex Lerae]

So Anna Walsh was a 39 year old mother of three and she was last seen New Year's Day, January 2023. Her husband Brian and colleagues reported her missing. Police said Brian, who was actually already under house arrest for selling counterfeit Andy Warhol Paintings was initially cooperative, but they did a search of the home and found blood in the basement. Police later discovered some Google searches about body decomposition on their six year old son's iPad. Ana's body has never been found. Ultimately, Brian was charged with first degree murder, misleading police, and improper transport of a human body. He's pleaded not guilty to all of the charges.

[Andrea Canning]

Last week, Alex, there was some big news involving Brian Walsh.

[Alex Lerae]

That's right. On Thursday night, Brian Walsh was stabbed in jail. He was taken to a hospital for an injury that was described as non life threatening and superficial, and he was back in jail by Friday. In a statement, the Norfolk County Sheriff's Office said the other individual involved in the incident was subdued and a makeshift blunt instrument was recovered.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so Monday there was a status hearing in this case. And Alex, it actually involved a former detective I interviewed for the Karen Reed case. His name is Michael Proctor. He was ultimately fired for misconduct during that investigation, including sending a number of disparaging texts about Karen Reed. Turns out he was the lead investigator in Brian Walsh's case as well. So tell us how this is all tying together.

[Alex Lerae]

Right, so as you've talked about on the podcast before, there's been a lot of back and forth about what Walsh's defense team can review from Proctor's phone. And there was more of that in the hearing. The prosecution said that they completed the review of materials and are in conversation with the U.S. attorney's office following the review. So it's still unclear exactly what will be turned over to the defense, but there will be another status hearing on September 25th.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. And that trial is expected to begin October 20th. Up next, we are heading to Idaho, where convicted murderer Chad Daybell is making headlines again. Alex, remind us quickly who Chad Dabel is.

[Alex Lerae]

Yeah, so Chad is the husband of Lori Val Dabell, also known as Mommy Doomsday, who will be very familiar to regular listeners of Dateline. Chad and Lori were both charged and found guilty in the murders of Lori's kids, JJ and Tyler. Chad was also found guilty of the murder of his first wife, Tammy, while Lori was found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder. Lori was sentenced to life in prison, and Chad was sentenced to death.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, and our listeners may remember Lori did that fascinating interview with our own Keith. And now Chad is speaking out from behind bars in his own way.

[Alex Lerae]

Yes, Andrea, Chad Dabel is communicating through a new website called Letters from Chad. The site says it features writings from Chad, who is currently on death row.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, I'm almost afraid to ask, what is he writing about.

[Alex Lerae]

Yeah. So in his first letter, Chad thanked people who sent him cards and letters and said that he was writing because he wanted people to hear directly from him, saying, I am not the man the media has created. I am not a cult member who should be feared. I am not a conspirator or a killer. Daybell expressed sadness over the deaths of Tammy, JJ and Tylee and said he would share a more complete story in his appeal. He's also shared book and music recommendations in these letters.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, so interesting. Alex, thank you. And thank you for bringing us these stories this week. Yep.

[Alex Lerae]

Absolutely. Anytime.

[Andrea Canning]

And we've got one more update for you. It's currently Wednesday and I just got out of court in Bardstown, Kentucky, after the final phase of what's been called Kentucky's trial of the decade. Over 10 years ago, Crystal Rogers car was found abandoned on the Bluegrass Parkway in There was no trace of Crystal and her body has never been found. Back in July, Brooks Hauk, Crystal's ex boyfriend, was found guilty of her murder and tampering with evidence. Another man, Joseph Lawson, was found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with physical evidence. Their sentencing took place Wednesday afternoon. It began with victim impact statements. Many members of Crystal's family spoke, including two of her daughters was very emotional, her sister and her brother and her aunt. Her mother, Sherry took the stand and spoke for nearly half an hour. She addressed Hauk, who looked at her as she spoke to him.

[Elizabeth Smith]

Did you ever think of how my daughter felt when you murdered her?

[Andrea Canning]

Sherry looked Houck in the eye and said, where is my daughter? There will be some forgiveness for you if you tell me where my daughter is. The judge then sentenced Hauk to life in prison. Joseph Lawson was sentenced to 25 years for his role in the crime. I'll be staying on this story for a future DATELINE episode. So stay tuned for that. Last week on the podcast, we talked about the sentencing of Catherine Rastelli, a Utah mom who pleaded guilty to charges in connection to the 2024 murder of her husband, Matthew. Catherine gave a brief statement.

[Mike Nardi]

I'm so very deeply sorry for the.

[Sean Sullivan]

Pain that I've caused.

[Andrea Canning]

Then the judge handed Catherine her sentence and it was by no means straightforward. For conspiring to murder her husband and the murder itself, her sentence was one to 15 years in prison. You heard that right. In theory, Rastelli could serve as little as one year in prison for committing murder. It made us wonder how often judges hand out such wide sentencing ranges to convicted killers. And what else we don't know about sentencing a murderer. So we asked NBC News legal analyst and defense attorney Danny Savalos to give us the breakdown. Thanks for being here, Danny.

[Danny Savalos]

Thanks for having me to talk about one of my favorite topics, which is sentencing.

[Andrea Canning]

Sentencing. Okay. In most of the cases we see at Dateline, convicted killers receive life sentences or life sentences without the possibility of parole. Very definitive. But is that as common as I think, Danny, or not?

[Danny Savalos]

The answer to that question is it depends. It depends on 50 plus different jurisdictions because all the states and the federal system have vastly different rules when it comes to not only the mandatory minimum and mandatory maximum sentences for a crime, but even the sentencing formula and the guidelines within.

[Andrea Canning]

Let's talk about Catherine Restelli, who we mentioned off the top. She was sentenced on several charges, but what stood out to our team was that she was sentenced to as little as one year in prison on the murder charge, as we mentioned mentioned. Have you heard of anyone actually spending that little time in prison for murder?

[Danny Savalos]

Yes, possibly on a homicide. So, you know, in Utah, the default position is that murder is first degree, but second degree murder is a lesser kind of homicide. And the sentencing range is actually one to 15 years.

[Andrea Canning]

This always confuses me, Danny, when I, you know, I've sat through so many sentencings in courtrooms and I heard this range thing. And you're trying to figure out what that means, you know, when they say from this, this number to this number, like, well, where, where does it fall?

[Mike Nardi]

Right.

[Danny Savalos]

So there are two different kinds of sentencing. Determinate sentencing, which means the judge announces a specific time, an indeterminate, which means you get a range as part of your sentence, and it gives a dramatic amount of discretion to a parole board to decide whether or not their sentence should be completed. But you're right, theoretically, her sentence could be as short as one year. Y. She could be let out. Although statistically it's probably unlikely, at least at her first parole board hearing.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, and Catherine Restelli, that, you know, that was part of a. A plea deal. You know, she's pleading guilty to this. She is expected to testify against her alleged co conspirators, her mom and her brother, when they head to trial next year. And as Josh Mankiewicz likes to say, he who squeals gets the deal.

[Danny Savalos]

Absolutely. That is. Nothing is truer, or more correctly said, and likely that is why this defendant got the deal of second degree murder when the facts tended to show at least a deliberate intent to lure and then kill. But cooperation can get you quite a ways.

[Andrea Canning]

And it's not just Utah that has some sentencing on the shorter side. Texas has something called sudden passion. I discovered that in a story I was working on about a woman named Frances Hall. She ran her husband off the road on his motorbike while they were in a chase with his paramour. And Danny, her defense team argued sudden passion. And she got very little time behind bars. It was pretty amazing how short her sentence was.

[Sean Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Danny Savalos]

It's interesting that we would have a provision that rewards explosive rage syndrome. But again, you know, legislatures do what they do.

[Andrea Canning]

I mean, it's crazy when you think about these cases. You know, if you put everything into a hat, the, the backgrounds of the people, the personalities, where they GRE state they're in, what the crime was. I mean, it's, it's like a, you know, like a roulette table almost, with so many things spinning around.

[Danny Savalos]

Yeah. And that's what's always fascinated me about sentencing, is that there's probably no area of the law that tries so hard for uniformity. But the practical reality is no two crimes are exactly the same. There's always differences. And when you combine that with the fact that the laws are so different in every state. And by the way, people's ideas about justice are dramatically different from state to state. Some states are arguably, and I hate to use this word, crueler or more, they're more stringent when it comes to punishment.

[Andrea Canning]

Wow. Danny, thank you so much for always breaking down the tough issues for us and helping us understand. We appreciate it.

[Danny Savalos]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. To get ad free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium. Make sure to check out Josh's brand new original podcast series Deadly Engagement about the murder of a grad student in North Carolina. Did a love triangle lead to murder?

[Danny Savalos]

If we can ever prove who was.

[Sean Sullivan]

Stalking whom, I think we have our case.

[Andrea Canning]

All you can get the show wherever you listen now. And coming up this Friday on Dateline, I'm bringing you an all new episode. When police found her body, it appeared that 2023 year old Sandra Burchmore had died by suicide. But her friends and family say there was more to the story. It didn't add up at all.

[1-800-Flowers Advertiser]

Could she actually do that or did.

[Andrea Canning]

Somebody have a part in this? Watch the betrayal of Sandra Birchmore this Friday at 10, 9 Central on NBC. And one last thing before we go. I'll be in Nashville with the rest of the Dateline crew on September 28th for the first ever Dateline Live event event. There will be onstage panels, audience Q&As and a VIP reception. We'd love to see you there. You can still get [e-mail] event. You can also find a link in the episode description. Thanks for listening. Dateline. True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins and Katie Ferguson. Our associate producer is Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Karloff. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes as head of audio production, Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole as senior executive producer of Dateline. Thanks, everybody. Bye.

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