Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

Summary

Dateline: True Crime Weekly — Detailed Episode Summary

Release Date: March 6, 2025

Host: Andrea Canning
Produced by: NBC News
Episode Title: Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

---

1. Monica Sementilli Trial: Emotional Testimony from a Killer

Overview:
The episode delves deep into the high-profile trial of Monica Sementilli, accused of orchestrating the murder of her hairstylist husband, Fabio, alongside her lover, Robert Baker. Six weeks into the prosecution's case, Monica has been on trial multiple times, with this episode highlighting the emotional and strategic maneuvers within the courtroom.

Key Points:

• Christopher Austin's Testimony:
  Christopher Austin, who pleaded guilty to second-degree murder for his involvement in Fabio’s death, took the stand to testify against Monica. His emotional recounting provides a raw glimpse into the crime and his relationship with both Monica and Robert Baker.

  Notable Quote:
  “When detectives finally bring him in for an interview, Christopher Austin admits to them that, yes, he was there and that, yes, he stabbed Fabio.” [04:46]

• Prosecution's Strategy:
  The prosecution focused on Austin’s longstanding relationship with Baker, tracing back to their middle school days, and highlighted Monica's alleged knowledge and participation in the murder plot.

  Notable Quote:
  “He [Baker] mentioned to the undercover agent that Monica was supposed to be coming into a large sum of money, which he said was insurance money.” [05:42]

• Defense's Counterarguments:
  Monica's defense team aimed to undermine Austin's credibility by pointing out inconsistencies and emphasizing that Austin had no direct evidence linking Monica to the murder plan. They portrayed Austin as someone seeking a favorable deal to see his family.

  Notable Quote:
  “The defense attorney quoted the transcript and said that Austin is basically telling the prosecutor, hey, I gotta get home to my girls.” [09:22]

• Emotional Dynamics in Court:
  Austin exhibited significant emotional distress while detailing the events, particularly when describing the actual murder, providing a harrowing firsthand account.

  Notable Quote:
  “He described, once they got into the house, how Baker sort of took the lead... he started stabbing him.” [07:38]

Insights:
Christopher Austin's testimony is pivotal, offering the prosecution a direct narrative of the murder while challenging the defense to refute his account. The emotional weight carried by Austin adds a layer of complexity to the proceedings, making Monica's defense strategy crucial in swaying the jury.

---

2. Dana Chandler's Self-Representation in Double Murder Trial

Overview:
Dana Chandler faces her third trial for the double murder of her ex-husband and his girlfriend, a crime that occurred 23 years ago. Breaking from conventional defense strategies, Chandler has chosen to represent herself, leading to unexpected courtroom dynamics.

Key Points:

• Self-Representation Challenges:
  Chandler fired her attorneys on the eve of the trial, opting to defend herself. This decision has extended the trial duration from the expected three weeks to five, introducing unpredictability into the proceedings.

  Notable Quote:
  “My name is Dana Chandler. I, as everyone knows, have been accused of double homicide and I am innocent.” [13:08]

• Cross-Examination Tactics:
  Taking the unconventional step of calling the lead detective as a defense witness, Chandler aimed to highlight the lack of physical evidence against her. Her questioning revealed that there were no fingerprints, hair, or DNA linking her to the crime scene.

  Notable Quote:
  “Were there my fingerprints in the house? No.” [16:19]

• Emotional and Behavioral Cues:
  Chandler's courtroom demeanor has been a mix of emotional outbursts and strategic questioning. Instances like requesting her jacket on the stand and using a composite notebook add to the unique portrayal of her defense.

  Notable Quote:
  “I am under so much pressure right now, and I'm having a difficult time proceeding.” [14:45]

• Defense's Core Argument:
  The crux of Chandler's defense centers on the absence of direct evidence and an alibi discredited by her own statements and those of her children.

  Notable Quote:
  “They really do not have physical evidence tying her to these murders... No one says, hey, I saw her there.” [15:43]

Insights:
Dana Chandler's decision to represent herself introduces a dynamic narrative of resilience and vulnerability. While her approach allows her to directly address the jury, it also exposes the trial to potential pitfalls stemming from emotional bias and lack of legal expertise. The defense’s focus on the absence of incriminating evidence positions Chandler’s innocence as a central theme of the trial.

---

3. Dateline Roundup

a. Gene Hackman’s Mysterious Death

Overview:
Hollywood icon Gene Hackman and his wife Betsy were found dead in their Santa Fe home, alongside their dog, Sue. The circumstances of their deaths have raised suspicions, prompting a thorough investigation.

Key Points:

• Initial Findings:
  Authorities initially suspected carbon monoxide poisoning but later ruled it out after autopsy results showed no such evidence.

  Notable Quote:
  “Initial autopsy results were negative for carbon monoxide poisoning.” [21:59]

• Current Investigation:
  The Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office is now focusing on a minor gas leak discovered in one of the stove burners, deemed non-lethal. They are also reviewing extensive body camera footage from deputies who responded to the scene.

  Notable Quote:
  “They may soon release some of that footage.” [22:51]

b. Deanne Warner Case Update

Overview:
Deanne Warner, a Michigan grandmother, was found dead in a sealed fertilizer tank in 2023. Following her death, her husband Dale Warner was charged with her murder. Recent developments have seen the arrest of her stepson, Jaron Dale Warner.

Key Points:

• New Arrest:
  Jaron Warner, 28, has been charged with tampering with evidence and being an accessory after the fact in Deanne's murder. He entered a not guilty plea.

  Notable Quote:
  “He could face jail time. The tampering with evidence charge alone carries more than a ten-year sentence.” [24:20]

• Legal Proceedings:
  Jaron faces two preliminary hearings scheduled for March 10 and March 17. If convicted, the consequences are severe, underscoring the gravity of the charges against him.

c. Karen Reid’s Ongoing Trial

Overview:
Karen Reid stands accused of drunkenly driving her SUV into her boyfriend, Officer John O'Keefe, resulting in his death in 2022. Reid maintains her innocence, leading to continued legal battles.

Key Points:

• Defense's Motion to Dismiss:
  Reid's defense argued that the prosecution suppressed altered video surveillance footage that could exonerate her. Previous similar motions have been denied, and the court is awaiting a ruling on the latest attempt.

  Notable Quote:
  “The defense says the prosecution suppressed video surveillance footage that would prove Karen Reid's innocence.” [25:02]

• Federal Probe Conclusion:
  Special Prosecutor Hank Brennan announced the end of the federal investigation into O'Keefe's death, simultaneously requesting a gag order to prevent further influence on the jury pool.

  Notable Quote:
  “There is no longer any federal investigation into the investigation of John O'Keefe's death or any related matters.” [25:40]

• Ongoing Allegations:
  The defense faces allegations of attempting to poison the jury pool, with recent accusations about publicizing sensitive information, further complicating Reid’s legal situation.

---

4. Travel Scam Safety Tips with Vicky Wynn

Overview:
Shifting from courtroom drama to consumer safety, NBC News' Vicky Wynn provides valuable insights on avoiding travel scams, especially pertinent for listeners planning vacations during the winter season.

Key Points:

• Identifying Scams:
  Wynn highlights a new scam involving fake travel agents offering discounted vacations through deceptive payment methods like Zelle or Venmo, leaving victims stranded without their bookings.

  Notable Quote:
  “If the price is too good to be true and you are not using your credit card... be very, very careful.” [02:18]

• Verification Strategies:
  To ensure the legitimacy of travel offers, Wynn advises thorough research, including checking company reviews and booking through reputable sources or trusted travel agents.

  Notable Quote:
  “Do your homework. That means entering the name of the company, the name of the hotel property and the word review.” [28:38]

• Additional Precautions:
  Listeners are encouraged to understand cancellation policies, set reminders for deadlines, and directly confirm property details to avoid falling victim to fraudulent listings.

  Notable Quote:
  “Make sure you know what the cancellation policies are and if there is a 24-hour cancellation period.” [29:26]

Insights:
Vicky Wynn's segment serves as a crucial guide for consumers navigating the often-complex landscape of travel bookings. Her emphasis on due diligence and cautious payment methods empowers listeners to make informed decisions, safeguarding their vacation plans from deceitful practices.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Dateline: True Crime Weekly masterfully intertwines gripping courtroom narratives with timely consumer advice. From the heart-wrenching testimonies in high-stakes murder trials to practical tips on safeguarding holiday plans, Andrea Canning and her guests deliver a comprehensive and engaging exploration of true crime and its broader implications.

---

Notable Upcoming Segment:
Stay tuned for Friday's exclusive interview with convicted murderer Lori Valo, where Keith Morrison delves into her harrowing experiences and untold secrets.

---

For ad-free listening and exclusive content, subscribe to Dateline Premium.

Transcript

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[Uber Advertiser]

Good morning.

[Andrea Canning]

It's morning here at 30 Rockefeller center and time for the DATELINE story meeting.

[Producer]

We got everybody, so let's go ahead and jump in.

[Andrea Canning]

Producers are swapping tips about breaking crime news and cases playing out in courtrooms across the country.

[Dana Chandler]

The investigation into like the chain link and how they trace that to the Lowe's door, the toxicology reports will be most important.

[Christopher Austin]

That could take several weeks. She is just saying you've got to let me out. Prosecutors saying it's not the Four Seasons.

[Andrea Canning]

Welcome to DATELINE True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's March 6th and here's what's on our docket. Fireworks in a Kansas courtroom as Dana Chandler, the woman representing herself at her third trial on charges she murdered her ex husband and his girlfriend, calls the lead detective as a defense witness.

[Dana Chandler]

Were there my fingerprints in the house?

[Nexgard Advertiser]

No.

[Dana Chandler]

Were there any of my hair in the house? No.

[Andrea Canning]

In DATELINE Roundup, what we know about the investigation into the mysterious death of Hollywood legend Gene Hackman.

[Sue Simpson]

They're combing through hours of body camera footage from the deputies who responded to the scene. They may soon release some of that footage.

[Andrea Canning]

Plus, NBC News chief consumer investigative correspondent Vicky Wynn is back to share her tips on how to avoid being scammed while booking your next vacation.

[Vicky Wynn]

If the price is too good to be true and you are not using your credit card, which has a lot of fraud protection, be very, very careful.

[Andrea Canning]

But before all that, we're head to Los Angeles and the latest bombshell testimony in the trial of a woman accused of plotting with her lover to murder her hairstylist husband. Six weeks into the prosecution's case against Monica Sementilli, the state has called an array of witnesses, from the paramedic who responded to the murder scene to a host of LAPD detectives to Monica's own daughter Jessica. On Tuesday morning, they called one of their star witnesses.

[Christopher Austin]

You may call your witness.

[Andrea Canning]

Thank you. The people call Christopher Austin. Prosecutors say Christopher Austin helped Monica's lover, Robert Baker, kill her husband Fabio. In January, Austin pleaded guilty to second degree murder for his role in the crime and agreed to testify against Monica, who he says knew about the plot. This week, we finally heard his emotional testimony in court. Dateline producer Chetna Joshi is back to tell us what Christopher Austin had to say. Chetna, thanks for joining us again.

[Christopher Austin]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

So, Chetna, the prosecution started by talking a bit about Christopher Austin's relationship with Robert Baker, which has had been a bit of a mystery to you. Chetna, your team Dateline until now. So what did we find out about their connection?

[Christopher Austin]

Yeah, so we learned that Christopher Austin was about in middle school when he met Robert Baker and that his dad and Robert Baker were very good friends.

[Andrea Canning]

Did you have a term that you referred to him as?

[Dana Chandler]

Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

What is that?

[Dana Chandler]

I called him Unc, short for uncle.

[Christopher Austin]

And is Rob older than you then?

[Dana Chandler]

Yes.

[Christopher Austin]

How much older?

[Dana Chandler]

Same age as my dad, I guess. I'm not a math guy. 30 plus years older than me.

[Christopher Austin]

As the years went on, Christopher Austin and Baker developed a friendship. Christopher Austin even worked for him almost as an assistant and, you know, kind of the way he put it, doing whatever Baker needed him to do.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so the prosecution walked through Christopher Austin's arrest last October. Now, this is more than seven years after the crime. When the detective met with him, Austin said he was shown photos of himself and Baker jogging and inside the black Porsche that they took from the Cementilly house after the murder.

[Christopher Austin]

This is when Austin testifies that, yeah, he understands, like, he knows why he's there.

[Uber Advertiser]

And.

[Christopher Austin]

And so when detectives finally bring him in for an interview, Christopher Austin admits to them that, yes, he was there and that, yes, he stabbed Fabio.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, my gosh, that's intense. And interestingly, when Austin was arrested, he was taken to a cell where they had planted an undercover officer. Does he get anything good out of him?

[Christopher Austin]

Yeah, who knows if it's because now that he's confessed to detectives or for what reason? But Austin now starts opening up more to his cellmate. He tells him that his unc. His uncle, who we know is Robert Baker, and the woman that. These are the words he uses, the woman that he was messing with, were both involved. And at this point, the prosecutor in court asks him, if he sees that woman, does he see her in court?

[Andrea Canning]

Can you please identify where she's sitting and what she's wearing?

[Dana Chandler]

To my far right, white blouse, gray suit, indicating the defendant.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, this is. This is huge. And he told the undercover officer something else about that. It had to do with money.

[Christopher Austin]

That's right. He mentions to the undercover agent that Monica was supposed to be coming into a large sum of money, which he said was insurance money.

[Andrea Canning]

What did Baker tell you about it?

[Dana Chandler]

Baker told me she's loaded. She wants him gone. She's gonna get paid.

[Andrea Canning]

Did the agent say to you? To me, it sounded like it's the bitch who planned everything. Do you remember him saying that to you?

[Dana Chandler]

Yeah.

[Sue Simpson]

What'd you say?

[Dana Chandler]

She knew about it? She did.

[Andrea Canning]

Christopher Austin, he was extremely emotional at times on the stand. One of those times in particular, he's describing what happened the day Fabio was killed.

[Dana Chandler]

Yeah.

[Christopher Austin]

When he got emotional. And it usually happened during times when there was direct questioning about the murder itself, and he would kind of hang his head low and get quiet and emotional. And regarding the day of the murder, he testified that they were at Baker's apartment, and Baker gets a text. And Baker says the text is from Monica and that she is telling him that there is basically a small window. And so Baker's like, okay, this is the time. We gotta go now.

[Andrea Canning]

Does he talk about the actual murder and how it was carried out?

[Christopher Austin]

Yeah, I would say that this was probably one of the most shocking things. I mean, it's not very often that we get to hear from a killer directly from his own mouth how a murder went down. And that's exactly what we heard in Christopher Austin's testimony. He described, once they got into the house, how Baker sort of took the lead.

[Dana Chandler]

He said, on the count of three, he's gonna hold him down. And he opened the door, and he held his mouth, couldn't scream. And he started. He started stabbing him. I'm sorry. And he tried. Stabbed him once.

[Andrea Canning]

Monica's defense has no surprise, maintained that she had nothing to do with this plot to kill Fabio. This was Robert Baker. This was him reeling in Christopher Austin. How did they get around this very damaging testimony from Christopher Austin?

[Christopher Austin]

Chetna, A lot of Austin's testimony focused on Conversations he had with Baker. And so that's something that the defense really wanted to highlight in their cross examination, is that Christopher Austin never spoke to Monica about a murder plan. He never saw a text that showed that Monica wanted Fabio dead. This is all coming through Robert Baker.

[Andrea Canning]

And also the defense tried to poke holes with Christopher Austin as well, with inconsistencies that, you know, he wasn't truthful at times with police.

[Christopher Austin]

Yes. The other thing that they really wanted to highlight for the jury was that Austin did whatever was necessary in order to get himself the best deal that he could. And in his discussions with the prosecutor after the arrest, the defense attorney quoted the transcript and said that Austin is basically telling the prosecutor, hey, I gotta get home to my girls. His girls being his wife and his young daughter.

[Dana Chandler]

Do you recall telling her, at the end of the day, all you care about is seeing my girls? Remember that? I do. And things have to happen. But, I mean, do I need to testify? What do you need? What can you do for me? What do you need from me so I can go see my girls? That's all that matters to me. Did you say that to her? I did. And was that the truth? Yes. And the truth is, now that you have testified to, to what they need, you're gonna go home and see your girls long before you would have had you been found guilty of this murder.

[Christopher Austin]

What the defense wants the jury to realize is that in exchange for getting the deal that Austin did, that's why his testimony is coming out the way it's playing out in court now. He ended up pleading guilty to second degree murder, which carries a sentence of 16 years to life. Now, he won't be sentenced until after this trial is over, and his is based on the truthful testimony that he gives in court. And whether it's truthful or not, I think what the defense wants the jury to hear is that again, Christopher Austin had no direct knowledge that Monica wanted Fabio dead or had any part in this planning.

[Andrea Canning]

Chetna, thank you for your insight into this. This definitely was a very fascinating week in this trial.

[Christopher Austin]

Definitely. Thanks so much for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

Coming up, we'll take you inside a Kansas courtroom where Dana Chandler is on TR for the third time for a double murder she says she didn't commit and is representing herself. This week, she called a surprising defense witness to the stand. The lead detective on the case, Netcredit.

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[Nexgard Advertiser]

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[Andrea Canning]

For our next story, we're heading back to a Kansas courtroom where Dana Chandler is standing trial for the third time for a double murder that happened 23 years ago. Prosecutors say Chandler, consumed by hatred for her ex husband and his girlfriend, drove hundreds of miles from Colorado to Kansas to murder them in their home. Her trial was expected to last three weeks, but has stretched into five, thanks in part to a choice Chandler made on the eve of trial. She fired her attorneys and decided to represent herself.

[Dana Chandler]

Start by stating my name. My name is Dana Chandler. I, as everyone know, have been accused of double homicide and I am innocent.

[Andrea Canning]

Since then, she has cross examined her own children.

[Dana Chandler]

And if you'd please reintroduce yourself to the jury, I'm Justin Sisko. Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

And she has spent multiple days on the witness stand telling the jury her version of events. Then this week in another courtroom, surprise, Chandler called the lead detective who put her behind bars as one of her main defense witnesses. Here to tell us how Dana is faring as her own lawyer is DATELINE producer Marianne o' Donnell, who's talking to us from the courthouse parking lot. Marianne, thanks for coming on the podcast.

[Producer]

Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so the twists and turns of this trial. Thanks. It's going what appears to be into Overtime. How do the people in the courtroom seem to be taking that?

[Producer]

Well, the judge is really exhorting Dana to kind of wrap it up, because don't forget the people on this jury. I mean, they've got their lives to get back to, and this is kind of dragging on.

[Andrea Canning]

Dana's previously served as her own lawyer in some hearings, but this is the first time she is fully representing herself at trial. What is your impression of her legal skills?

[Producer]

Well, you know, it's. She's got a lot of the lingo down. She certainly has read into rules of evidence and procedure, but then she repeats things. She gets emotional at odd moments that you wouldn't expect someone to get emotional.

[Dana Chandler]

I am under so pressured right now, and I'm having a difficult time proceeding. I'm living as quickly and as efficiently as I can, but I do need for the court to give me some space and quit putting me under such enormous amount of pressure.

[Andrea Canning]

Well, on the tape, Marianne, you can. You can hear some swooshing noises.

[Sue Simpson]

We can't proceed.

[Andrea Canning]

And. And that's actually coming from. From Dana's attire.

[Producer]

She interrupted her testimony at one point to say she was cold and she needed to get her jacket. So she basically sat the rest of the time on the stand in her winter coat, her puffer jacket, that. I just never seen that before. I think she even uses a composite notebook that. Like the kind we had in school. So there are some things that are kind of jarring and other things that go, okay, she's doing an okay job.

[Andrea Canning]

Marianne, what would you say is her clearest argument that she's made on her behalf?

[Producer]

I think the clearest argument is that which can't be refuted. It's that they really do not have physical evidence tying her to these murders. They really don't even have any kind of direct evidence. No one says, hey, I saw her there. I saw her in Topeka, Kansas, on this date at this time, around the time when these murders occurred.

[Andrea Canning]

And Marianne, she really tried to hit home the lack of evidence in the case when she called the lead detective to the stand, as she was not afraid to go toe to toe with him.

[Dana Chandler]

During your investigation of the crime scene, did you ever learn or get any information that showed that I was in the Harkness residence at any time? Yes. What was that? There was two bodies there that were connected to you, that you were known to dislike one of them and hate the other one. Were there my fingerprints in the house? No. Were there any of my hair in the house? No. Was there any DNA in the house? No.

[Andrea Canning]

So, as we said, Dana testified over the course of five days, she talked about the marriage going bad and being heartbroken about losing custody of her kids. But she said she was nowhere near the crime scene that night in 2002. And Marianne, she also shared something that we hadn't heard before. She gave an explanation for two gas cans that prosecutors say she bought to fuel up for her drive to Kansas.

[Producer]

Yeah, this is something fairly new that's come up, that she went to an AA meeting on the day that basically the prosecution says she left Denver to go commit these murders. And she's saying, no, no, listen, this woman was in need of gas. I met her at an AA meeting. I didn't know who she was. She was in. She didn't have any money. I went to go, goodness of my heart, to get her five gallon cans of fuel. I even brought them back. And then I went inside to my AA meeting.

[Andrea Canning]

So where is this woman then? Can she call her to the stand?

[Producer]

Well, here's the thing. We're talking about Alcoholics Anonymous. Anonymous.

[Andrea Canning]

Yes. So she still hasn't been able to present a witness who can give her a solid alibi. And this week, Dana, she's on the stand being cross examined by the prosecutor. Has this prosecutor been able to undermine her testimony?

[Producer]

Well, you'd have to ask the jury. But let me tell you, just sitting in that courtroom, it did sound damning, everything he asked her. Are you saying your daughter, are you saying your son misspoke or lied when they said you did this back in the day? Yes. That's not true.

[Dana Chandler]

Haley, Dustin and Tim were mistaken when they testified. You showed up at soccer games shouting at Mike and Karen. Yes, that's incorrect.

[Producer]

So what's coming across is that everyone else is wrong or lying about her.

[Andrea Canning]

And she's also, you know, the type of witness that doesn't remember a lot of things.

[Producer]

That's exactly right. It is a lot of. I don't recall. I'm not sure. She's like.

[Dana Chandler]

Ms. Shannon, do you remember where you lived? Um, let's see. I don't remember.

[Producer]

You know, it. It does leave him frustrated, but at the same time, I think he's trying to use that to show the jury that this woman is really trying to just confuse them and trying to play with the facts.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, that. That's giving the jury a lot to think about. So, Marianne, we will want to hear how this plays out. Thank you so much for being in court every day for Dateline and for Dateline. True Crime we appreciate it.

[Producer]

My pleasure.

[Andrea Canning]

Up next, it's DATELINE roundup. We've got a big development in the case of Deanne Warner, the Michigan grandmother whose body was found stuffed in a fertilizer tank. The latest from the courtroom in the Karen Reed case and what investigators are saying about the death of Gene Hackman. Plus, are you booking your next vacation? Tips on how to avoid becoming the victim of a travel scam. Foreign.

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[Andrea Canning]

Soon as the same day.

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[Andrea Canning]

Welcome back. Joining us for this week's DATELINE roundup is DATELINE producer Sue Simpson. Hey, Sue.

[Sue Simpson]

Hey, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

All right. For our first story, we are off to Santa Fe, where last week actor Gene Hackman and his wife Betsy were found dead in their home along with one of their dogs, Sue. What have we Lear learned about this, this tragedy that has some mystery to it.

[Sue Simpson]

It does, Andrea. It really does. Let me just go over the background a bit. Last Wednesday, neighborhood security officials found Hackman in a mudroom, his wife in a bathroom, along with scattered pills and their dog, one of them in a crate in the bathroom closet. Investigators at the time said no foul play, but the deaths appeared suspicious enough to warrant a thorough investigation.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, initially, law enforcement kind of assumed that this could be a carbon monoxide poisoning, but they ruled it out, right?

[Sue Simpson]

That's right. At a press conference, officials said initial autopsy results were negative for carbon monoxide poisoning. And on Tuesday, the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office shared findings from the gas company's extensive investigation. That investigation showed there was a minuscule gas leak on one of the stove burners, but not a lethal amount.

[Andrea Canning]

And they also found that that Gene Hackman's pacemaker stopped on February 17th. So they are assuming that they know exactly when he died.

[Sue Simpson]

That's right. And if they confirm that to be true, that was more than a week before the bodies were found.

[Andrea Canning]

So really a lot of outstanding questions at this point. So now I assume we're waiting on toxicology, which can take a while.

[Sue Simpson]

Yeah. And that could take weeks or even months. But according to the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office, they're combing through hours of body camera footage from the deputy who responded to the scene. And they mentioned that they may soon release some of that footage.

[Andrea Canning]

For our next story, we are off to Michigan where there's been a big development in the case of murdered Michigan grandmother Deanne Warner, which Josh covered on his Missing in America podcast. So just to remind people of this one, deann was a successful businesswoman who ran a trucking company with her husband, Dale Warner until she went missing in 2021. Two years later, before her body was even found, Dale was charged with her murder. Then this past August, her remains were found inside a sealed fertilizer tank on the family farm. And this week a second person was arrested in the case. Sue, tell us who has been charged now.

[Sue Simpson]

It is Dee's stepson, 28 year old Jaron Dale Warner. He was arrested over the weekend on charges of tampering with evidence and accessory after the fact and the disappearance and murder of his stepmother. Jaron entered a not guilty plea when he was in court on Monday.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so police are saying that that Dee's stepson, it looks like, helped his father, according to them.

[Sue Simpson]

That's right.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so what is next for the stepson?

[Sue Simpson]

There will be two preliminary hearings. They're set for March 10 and March 17. But if he's convicted, he could face jail time. The tampering with evidence charge alone carries more than a ten year sentence.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, we will be watching. And for our final story, we are back yet again in Dedham, Massachusetts for another Karen Reid update. She is the woman accused of drunkenly backing her SUV into her police officer boyfriend, John O' Keefe, back in 2022 and leaving him to die in the snow. She has denied having anything to do with his death. There has been a lot happening in this case, sue, over the past few weeks and we're waiting on some answers.

[Sue Simpson]

Yes, Reid has been back in court for multiple hearings recently that we've been.

[Andrea Canning]

Talking about here and in court. On Tuesday, the defense presented their motion to dismiss the case entirely. What was their argument?

[Sue Simpson]

The defense says the prosecution suppressed video surveillance footage that would prove Karen Reid's innocence. Defense attorneys alleged that in Karen Reed's first trial, prosecutors showed the jury a video that had been altered to mislead jurors. The defense has made these motions before, and previous motions to dismiss have been struck down on both the local and the state levels. We are still waiting for the judge's ruling on that.

[Andrea Canning]

And last week we talked about how the federal probe was rumored to be over. Now we actually have official confirmation.

[Sue Simpson]

We do. We do. The special prosecutor, Hank Brennan, delivered the outcome of that federal probe.

[Dana Chandler]

There is no longer any federal investigation into the investigation of John o' Keefe's death or any related matters.

[Sue Simpson]

Brennan then went on to ask for a gag order for all attorneys in the case. But he was pretty pointed about Reid's defense team.

[Dana Chandler]

The ongoing deliberate, purposeful poisoning of the potential jury pool is not only wrong and unfair, it needs to be stopped.

[Andrea Canning]

This comes after prosecutors previously accused the defense of violating a protective order by publicizing a text sent by Michael Proctor to an assistant district attorney in response to that accusation. The defense attorney said it was an oversight on his part. The defense has not yet responded to this latest allegation that they're trying to influence the jury pool. So we will continue to keep an eye on these rulings. Thank you so much for these updates, Sue.

[Sue Simpson]

Thank you, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

For many Americans, winter is a season of bitter cold or staying indoors, as we all know so well. But it's also the perfect time to start dreaming up your next big vacation. So for anyone making plans, we've got some tips on how to avoid travel scams with NBC News chief consumer investigative correspondent Vicky Wynn.

[Sue Simpson]

Hey, Vicki.

[Vicky Wynn]

Hey, Andrea. Love talking about vacations.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, Vicki, so most of the time, if a vacation offer seems too good to be true, you say it probably is, right?

[Vicky Wynn]

That is so true. In fact, there's a brand new scam I want to tell you about, Andrea, that I just heard about. It was through a friend of a friend who said she was working with what she thought was a legitimate travel agent. This person would say, book your travel through me. I will put it on my, quote, corporate card. And that's how you get the discounts. And this victim told friends, they told family, and over the course of a year or so, people were booking vacations that were extremely discounted and they were paying via zelle to this travel Agent. And now this woman has up and left and those vacations were never booked. Now this is something I am in the process of investigating. I had never heard of a scam like this before, but I have talked to multiple victims who say they're kind of left holding the bag because what the banks will say is you willingly transferred this money to someone. So my first piece of advice is if the price is too good to be true, be very, very careful. It's not just price, it's also how are they asking you to pay? Are they asking you to pay with a gift card with Venmo or Zelle or cash app, some kind of peer to peer payment system that may not have the kinds of protections as a credit card? I would be very, very wary.

[Andrea Canning]

So if you're browsing, Vicki, potential destinations, you know, hotels, vacation activities, cruise lines. How, how do you confirm that you know what they're telling you is really true?

[Vicky Wynn]

Yes. Keep in mind that five star experience, luxury, these are just marketing words that companies can add to their websites and they can look for beautiful stock photos, destination. So in order to verify if this is real, do your homework. That means entering the name of the company, the name of the hotel property and the word review. That's how you will find what people are saying, yes, this is legit or no, this is not. And I would also recommend booking travel through reputable sources using a travel agent. Usually they only charge a very small fee and they have actual boots on the ground knowledge of the, you know, destinations that you're curious about.

[Andrea Canning]

So you, you have your whole TR laid out. Anything else that we should watch out for before pulling the trigger?

[Vicky Wynn]

Make sure you know what the cancellation policies are and if there is a 24 hour cancellation period, I like to set a reminder in my phone. That reminder lets you know, cancel before this time, before you get charged it. It's also really important to call asking some questions to confirm the property. I think especially when you're using a peer to peer site like Airbnb or vrbo. This happened to us one time. We thought we were getting a great deal on a, a hotel room, but as getting closer, you know, we weren't getting the details sent to us so we made a couple of extra calls and it turns out that wasn't really a listing. That place didn't actually exist.

[Andrea Canning]

And this happened to you?

[Vicky Wynn]

This literally my husband booked it. But thankfully this. Thankfully we started thinking, you know what, maybe this is hinky. And so we canceled it.

[Andrea Canning]

You're going to train your family Very, very well, Vicky, thank you. And I hope everyone enjoys their vacations wherever they're going, if they're going somewhere in the cold or they're booking for summer, which I know my family is. Lots of good stuff in there. Vicki, thank you so much.

[Vicky Wynn]

You bet.

[Andrea Canning]

That's it for this episode of Dateline. True Crime Weekly. To get ad free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium. And coming up this Friday, don't miss Keith's exclusive interview with one of the most infamous women in America, one whose story he's been covering for the past five years, convicted murderer Lori Valo. Daybell, did you watch your children die? That's a really sad question.

[Dana Chandler]

It's a terrible question, and it's one.

[Sue Simpson]

I hate to have to ask.

[Andrea Canning]

On the eve of trial. And in her first television interview ever, what secrets will she reveal? You've heard a lot of stuff, Keith. What I tell you will be the truth. Watch Lori Valo the Jailhouse Interview airing this Friday at 9, 8 Central on NBC or stream it starting Saturday on Peacock. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Franny Kelly and Katie Ferguson. Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Case Seat. Our senior producer is Liz Brown. Kuriloff production and fact checking help by Sara Kadir. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline. All right, thanks, everybody.

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