Round two of Karen Read's defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a courtroom sketch artist.

Summary

Dateline: True Crime Weekly – Episode Summary: "Round Two of Karen Reed's Defense. Josh Mankiewicz on Dee Warner. Plus, a Courtroom Sketch Artist"

Release Date: June 5, 2025
Host: Andrea Canning
Produced by: NBC News

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Introduction

In this episode of Dateline: True Crime Weekly, host Andrea Canning delves into multiple high-profile true crime cases, providing listeners with the latest updates, courtroom drama, and expert insights. The episode primarily focuses on the retrial of Karen Reed, an update on the Dee Warner case, and a fascinating interview with a courtroom sketch artist.

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Karen Reed's Retrial: Defense Strategy Intensifies

Timestamp: [01:59] – [19:54]

Overview: Karen Reed, charged with hitting her Boston police officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe, with her car after a night of heavy drinking in January 2022, is undergoing her retrial in Dedham, Massachusetts. Having pleaded not guilty, Reed's defense team posits that she was framed by law enforcement officers aiming to protect two of their own, who allegedly assaulted O'Keefe at a house party.

Key Developments:

• New Witnesses and Evidence: The defense has introduced new witnesses and revisited controversial testimonies to support their framing theory. Notably, they have called former Massachusetts State Trooper Michael Proctor’s childhood friend, Jonathan Diamandis, to the stand.

• Text Message Evidence: At [04:19], Diamandis testifies about a group chat containing vulgar comments made by Proctor about Reed, including phrases like "whack job" and "C word." When pressed by the prosecution to read these messages, Diamandis declines, leading the prosecutor to present them directly:

  Rachel White (Prosecutor): "Mr. Proctor says she's a whack job and then uses the C word to describe."

• Witness Credibility: Defense witness Officer Kelly Dever recounts her original testimony about witnessing Brian Higgins and Chief Berkowitz in the Sally Port garage, which aligns with the defense’s claim of police tampering. However, Dever now suggests she may have a "false memory," casting doubt on her initial statements ([07:13]).

• Medical Testimony: Dr. Marie Russell, an emergency room doctor and pathologist, testified that John O'Keefe's injuries were consistent with dog bites occurring before his death. Despite the prosecution's attempts to undermine her credibility, Dr. Russell confidently explains that the injuries could not have been caused solely by vehicle damage ([10:12]):

  Dr. Marie Russell: "A broken taillight could never, in and of itself, cause the kind of arm injuries that John o'Keefe had."

Courtroom Atmosphere: The interaction between defense attorney Alan Jackson and Officer Dever became notably combative, creating a tense atmosphere that kept jurors riveted. Reed herself maintained her composure, asserting her truthfulness despite the escalating tension ([08:21]):

Karen Reed: "All I have to do is tell the truth. If it's not perceived to be fair, that's someone else's opinion."

Upcoming Proceedings: The trial is ongoing, with a scheduled verdict in January of the following year. The defense continues to hold onto potential surprises, keeping both the prosecution and the public on edge ([19:12]).

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Dee Warner Case Update: Legal Maneuvers and Family Lawsuit

Timestamp: [11:31] – [19:54]

Overview: The tragic case of Deanne "Dee" Warner, a 52-year-old grandmother and businesswoman, remains in the spotlight. Dee disappeared in April 2021, and her body was discovered nine months later in a metal tank on her husband Dale Warner's farm. Dale was arrested and charged with murder and tampering with evidence but has pleaded not guilty.

Key Developments:

• Family Lawsuit: Dee's children from a previous marriage have filed a $100 million wrongful death lawsuit against Dale Warner. The lawsuit aims to prevent Dale from accessing Dee's substantial estate, which includes her trucking company and various properties, suggesting financial motives behind her murder ([14:04]):

  Sue Simpson (Producer): "They want to stop Dale from using Dee's estate for his defense."

• Additional Charges Dropped: Dale's son, Jaron Warner, was previously charged with being an accessory after the fact and tampering with evidence. However, these charges were dropped without prejudice in May, meaning they could be refiled. Jaron denies any involvement and claims the charges were unfounded ([16:18]):

  Jaron's Attorney: "He should never have been charged and he denies being involved."

• Change of Venue Request: Dale's defense team filed a motion to change the trial venue, citing extensive social media and media coverage that could prevent a fair trial. The judge denied this request without prejudice, leaving open the possibility for future motions ([17:13]).

• Juror Influence Concerns: A peculiar development involves advice circulating on a "Justice for D" Facebook page about becoming a "stealth juror" by cleaning up social media profiles to appear unbiased. This unprecedented advice has garnered the attention of both the prosecution and the judge ([17:50]).

Trial Schedule: The trial is set for January 2026, with potential delays looming due to ongoing legal maneuvers and media influence ([19:12]).

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Courtroom Sketch Artist Christine Cornell: Capturing Justice

Timestamp: [27:32] – [32:16]

Overview: With cameras barred from many high-profile courtrooms, courtroom sketch artists like Christine Cornell play a crucial role in documenting trials. Cornell, with a 50-year career, shares her experiences and insights into capturing the essence of courtroom proceedings.

Key Insights:

• Role and Responsibility: Cornell emphasizes the dual role of accuracy and capturing courtroom dynamics. She aims to provide both a visual record and convey the tension and personalities present ([27:52]):

  Christine Cornell: "You want to have an accurate drawing that really resembles them. And you want to capture a little bit of the dynamic of the courtroom."

• Notable Cases: Over her illustrious career, Cornell has sketched figures from mafia bosses like John Gotti to celebrities like Martha Stewart and Sean Combs. She highlights the challenge of portraying not just appearances but the emotional states of defendants and witnesses ([28:48]):

  Christine Cornell: "Leona and Martha and Imelda Marcos, you know, all the queens. And then there was Leona and Martha and Imelda Marcos, you know, all the queens."

• Personal Interactions: Cornell recounts moments of direct interaction with defendants, including an encounter with Sean Combs, illustrating the unique position sketch artists hold in the courtroom ([31:22]):

  Christine Cornell: "Having the eyes on you... It sort of feels like a social faux pas. I put him down like almost comically."

• Artistic Process: She typically completes three to six drawings per day, striving to balance speed with detailed accuracy to ensure each sketch authentically represents the individuals and moments in court ([29:43]).

Courtroom Dynamics: Cornell describes the intense environment of high-profile trials, where her sketches provide the public and media with visual narratives often absent due to camera restrictions. Her work becomes an essential component of the trial's public record.

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Additional Case Updates

Timestamp: [20:25] – [34:11]

1. Crystal Rogers Trial in Kentucky

• Case Background: Crystal Rogers, a 35-year-old mother of five, was reported missing in 2015. Her body remains undiscovered, but her boyfriend Brooks Hauk, along with Steve and Joseph Lawson, was charged in connection with her presumed murder.

• Steve Lawson's Trial: Steve was charged with conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with evidence. Taking the stand in his defense, he admitted to tampering with Crystal's car but denied involvement in her disappearance ([22:35]). The jury swiftly found him guilty on both charges after a nearly week-long trial ([23:00]). Crystal's family expressed mixed emotions, combining relief for the verdict with ongoing grief ([23:16]).

• Upcoming Trial: The remaining defendants, Joseph Lawson and Brooks Hauk, are scheduled for trial on June 24, with expectations of further revelations ([23:47]).

2. Dan Serafini's Case: Digital Evidence Scrutiny

• Case Overview: Former Major League Baseball pitcher Dan Serafini faces charges of murdering his father-in-law, Gary Spore, and attempting to murder his mother-in-law, Wendy Wood, in Lake Tahoe, California, in 2021.

• Prosecution's Approach: The prosecution focuses on digital evidence, presenting texts and emails that highlight conflicts between Serafini and his in-laws over financial matters ([24:18]). Notably, the only day Serafini's phone showed no outgoing messages was the day of the homicide, suggesting potential premeditation ([25:04]).

• Defense Strategy: While not extensively covered, the defense likely challenges the interpretation of digital evidence, questioning the context and intent behind the communications.

3. Lori Valo Debel's Trial Drama in Arizona

• Case Summary: Lori Valo Debel stands accused of conspiring to murder her niece's former husband, Brandon Boudreau. Her trial has been marked by unusual courtroom behavior and delays.

• Recent Developments: Debel attempted to delay jury selection by feigning illness, arriving in a wheelchair and making provocative remarks to the judge ([25:35]). Despite her antics, jury selection resumed, and the judge addressed concerns about potential juror bias, even humorously offering donuts to jurors ([26:24]).

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Looking Ahead

Andrea Canning wraps up the episode by teasing upcoming stories, including updates on the Karen Reed retrial and the Pam Hupp saga, which will be featured in future episodes of Dateline: True Crime Weekly. Additionally, listeners are encouraged to explore the visual work of courtroom sketch artist Christine Cornell on the podcast’s website and tune into related Dateline series for more in-depth coverage.

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Notable Quotes:

• Rachel White (Prosecutor) at [04:19]: "Mr. Proctor says she's a whack job and then uses the C word to describe."
• Karen Reed at [08:21]: "All I have to do is tell the truth. If it's not perceived to be fair, that's someone else's opinion."
• Dr. Marie Russell at [10:12]: "There would have to be multiple projections from the vehicle that were lined up in certain pattern to give those parallel marks all in the same direction. So, you know, that's why a broken tail light could not have done that."
• Christine Cornell at [28:11]: "It's both things. You know, you want to have an accurate drawing that really resembles them. And you want to capture a little bit of the dynamic of the courtroom."

---

Conclusion

This episode of Dateline: True Crime Weekly offers a comprehensive look into some of the most compelling true crime cases currently unfolding in American courtrooms. Through detailed updates, expert interviews, and behind-the-scenes insights, Andrea Canning ensures listeners are well-informed and engaged with each case's nuances and developments.

Transcript

[Oregon Lottery Representative]

In the summer, all of Oregon is our playground thanks to our incredible park system. That's why it's so cool that Oregon lottery gameplay, like video lottery or cash pop, helps support tons of parks. Projects statewide, like accessible trails at Silver Falls State park or upgrades to your favorite dog park in Newburgh. It's just one way a little lottery play for many Oregonians can add up to a lot of good the Oregon Lottery. Together we do good things. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only. Must be 18 or older to play. Good morning. How you doing?

[Andrea Canning]

Good. You're listening in to dateline's morning meeting.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

He just filed the charges end of day yesterday.

[Andrea Canning]

Our producers are swapping tips about breaking crime news. That would be an amazing twist. Yeah.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

He was offering him $4,000 for this. He only gives him 70 in the end.

[Andrea Canning]

I don't know what her story is going to be. Welcome to DATELINE True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's June 5th, and here's what's on our docket. In Michigan farm country, the body of Dee Warner, a beloved grandmother and businesswoman, was found sealed in a metal tank last year. Now her husband is in court for her murder. Josh Mankiewicz has the latest.

[Sue Simpson]

The case is proceeding and it's going to go to trial. But there have been a few things.

[Andrea Canning]

That have happened since then in DATELINE roundup a verdict in the trial of the first of three men charged in connection to the murder of a Kentucky mother and a dramatic scene during jury selection at Lori Valo Dabel's latest trial. I did not plan on getting sick. I am incapable of going forward and doing a good job representing myself. Plus, when cameras aren't allowed in the courtroom, sketch artists fill in the blanks. We'll talk to the sketch artist at the trial of Sean Combs about what the cameras are missing, puffy combs.

[Christine Cornell]

Mom is sitting behind me and she tapped me on the shoulder and gave me a thumbs up.

[Andrea Canning]

But before all that, we're heading to Dedham, Massachusetts, and a new chapter in the retrial of Karen Reed. Over a month into her retrial, Karen Reed's defense is finally putting on its case. That comes after months of legal back and forth about what witnesses could be called, speculation about the defense's strategy and a gag order that means only the defendant herself can talk to the media. Here is Karen Reid talking to our affiliate, NBC 10 Boston.

[Rachel White]

Karen, what can we expect from the defense?

[Andrea Canning]

Will you testify?

[Christine Cornell]

Tbd.

[Andrea Canning]

How are you feeling after today? I feel very Good. Thank you. Karen Reed is charged with hitting her Boston police officer boyfriend, John o' Keefe, with her car after a night of heavy drinking in January 2022. She has pleaded not guilty. Her legal team has its own theory that Reed was framed by law enforcement officers to protect two of their own who they say beat up o' Keefe at a house party night. So far, the defense has brought in new witnesses, revisited controversial testimony, and word around the courtroom is they still have some surprises in store. Here to bring us the latest is DATELINE producer Sue Simpson, who is once again back in the courtroom. Literally, she got a seat. Sue, welcome back.

[Tom Yamas]

Hi, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Hi, Sue. So now a big question hanging over this trial has been whether the defense would call former Massachusetts State Trooper Michael Proctor to the stand. He was fired in part for his handling of the investigation. So far, the defense has not called him, but Proctor has, you know, remains a big focus of the case. Sue.

[Tom Yamas]

He does, totally. Right, Andrea. And we saw them get at that with a new witness they called. His name is Jonathan Diamandis, and he's a childhood friend of Michael Proctor's.

[Andrea Canning]

We've been friends since middle school, approximately 30 years.

[Rachel White]

How often have you texted him over the years?

[Andrea Canning]

Frequently.

[Rachel White]

And I want to direct your attention to one particular group chat that had nine people on it.

[Andrea Canning]

Do you know the one I'm referring to? I do.

[Tom Yamas]

Diamandis was on one of those now infamous text chains where Michael Proctor texted vulgarities about Karen Reid. I'm sure you remember them, Andrea. Yes. And the reason the defense called him is so they could get into those text messages without calling Proctor himself.

[Rachel White]

Having reviewed that text chain, is that a true and accurate document?

[Andrea Canning]

Yes.

[Tom Yamas]

Now, it was interesting. The defense did not have Diamandis read the text messages, but on cross, the prosecutor asked him if he would. And you know what? Diamandis declined, saying he felt uncomfortable with the language. So the Prosecutor read them.

[Rachel White]

Mr. Proctor says she's a whack job and then uses the C word to describe. Is that accurate?

[Andrea Canning]

That's accurate.

[Rachel White]

He then says, yeah, she's a babe. Weird Fall river accent, though. No ass. Those are words that he wrote.

[Andrea Canning]

Those are the words.

[Rachel White]

And then one person in the group says, no, ass, bitch.

[Andrea Canning]

That's accurate.

[Rachel White]

Mr. Proctor, there's a response. Laughed at. Quote, no. Ass, bitch.

[Andrea Canning]

Yes. Wow, this is so interesting. What was it like in court as these text messages were read by the prosecution?

[Tom Yamas]

Well, a couple of the jurors made faces, but I've gotta say, Andrea, that things were about to get a lot More intense in the tiny courtroom that we're in with the next witness.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, let's talk about her. The defense called a woman who had worked as a Canton police officer when John o' Keefe died. What did they ask her about?

[Tom Yamas]

This was Officer Kelly Dever. And the morning that John o' Keefe body was discovered, Kelly Dever was working an overnight shift, and she was put on the dispatch desk. And the defense wanted her to talk about what she said she saw. But almost immediately, the interaction between Dever and Alan Jackson, who was leading the questioning for the defense, became combative.

[Rachel White]

Ms. Dever, do you want to be here today?

[Karen Reed]

I am put on the stand in a murder trial. I don't know why I'm here. I have no connection to this case.

[Rachel White]

You have no idea why you're here.

[Karen Reed]

You have never talked to me. Nobody on the fence seems to talk to me since prior to the first trial. So I don't have any idea why I'm here.

[Tom Yamas]

So Jackson then started asking Dever questions about what she'd seen in the Sally Port garage at the Canton Police Department that morning. But that's where Karen's SUV was being held. And the reason that Jackson was asking about this is because Deborah had been interviewed about what she saw by two other law enforcement agencies in relation to this case. Ultimately, Deborah said she told law enforcement officials that she saw the chief of the Canton Police Department and Brian Higgins, an ATF agent, go into the Sally Port garage where Karen's SUV was and stay for a while.

[Rachel White]

Did you tell these law enforcement officers that you, in fact, saw Brian Higgins and Chief Berkowitz go into the Sally Port together and alone with the SUV for a wildly long time?

[Karen Reed]

That was my recollection at the time.

[Rachel White]

So you did say that at the time?

[Karen Reed]

That is what I recollected.

[Andrea Canning]

So the reason this is important is that the defense has claimed the police tampered with the taillight on Karen's SUV and planted pieces of it at the crime scene. And they also say that Brian Higgins, who was at the house party that night, had been jealous of John and Karen's relationship. And so they say he had motive to beat John up. So what Dever originally told law enforcement could bolster their theory. But, sue, it sounds like she's saying she remembers something different now.

[Tom Yamas]

So she's saying she has a false memory, that she couldn't have seen what she thought she saw when the previous officers talked to her because the timeline didn't work out.

[Karen Reed]

The defense released a timeline right prior to the first trial that the vehicle on that day did not arrive in the Sally port until about an hour and a half after I left. Meaning it is not possible that I.

[Andrea Canning]

Saw that the back and forth between this witness and Alan Jackson got very tense.

[Rachel White]

You feel like you're being unbiased in your testimony here today in front of these jurors?

[Karen Reed]

I'm telling the truth.

[Rachel White]

You think you're being fair to both sides?

[Karen Reed]

All I have to do is tell the truth. If it's not perceived to be fair, that's someone else's opinion.

[Tom Yamas]

It's rare, you know, Andrea, to see such a hostile witness take the stand. So jurors were riveted, but how they're going to process that testimony is anyone's guess.

[Andrea Canning]

The defense also called a witness we have heard from before, an emergency room doctor and pathologist who spoke about John O' Keefe's injuries.

[Tom Yamas]

This witness is a woman called Dr. Marie Russell. So she testified that she's dealt with at least 500 dog bite injuries over the course of her very long career, as well as treating many people who had injuries from being hit by cars. And she walked the jury through how she developed her opinion that John o' Keefe's injuries on his arm were caused by dog bites and that they would have had to have happened before John o' Keefe died.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

There is ever so slight vital reaction or inflammation around the edges of the wounds, and so that determines that that supports the fact that they were inflicted during life.

[Andrea Canning]

Right out of the gate. No surprise, the prosecution came out hard against Dr. Russell.

[Tom Yamas]

Brannon accused Russell of reaching out to the attorneys and wanting to be involved this case, and also of exaggerating her expertise on dog bites.

[Rachel White]

Other than this case, there was never, ever a time in your career where you were presented with a photo and asked to give an opinion whether the mechanism of injury was a dog bite other than this case.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

That's correct.

[Rachel White]

You do not have experience over your long accomplished career in the effort of pattern recognition analysis of dog bite wounds. Isn't that fair to say?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Okay.

[Tom Yamas]

You know, watching in the court on the second day of cross examination of Dr. Russell, it began to feel a bit like a slam dunk for the prosecutor until Russell came back with two points. First of all, she spoke very confidently about how a broken taillight could never, in and of itself, cause the kind of arm injuries that John o' Keefe had.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

There would have to be multiple projections from the vehicle that were lined up in certain pattern to give those parallel marks all in the same direction. So, you know, that's why a broken tail light could not have done that.

[Tom Yamas]

And she also spoke about how people often blame themselves for accidents, sometimes for years afterwards, calling it acute grief reaction. So basically, she offered an explanation of why Karen might have been asking if she hit John with her car that morning.

[Andrea Canning]

Well, it has been a packed set of days so far. Sue, thank you for coming back and telling us all about this. And we'll see you next week, I'm sure.

[Tom Yamas]

Thank you, Andrea. Talk soon.

[Andrea Canning]

Coming up, Josh Mankiewicz will be here to talk about a case he's been covering for years, the murder of Michigan grandmother Deanne Warner.

[Oregon Lottery Representative]

In the summer. All of Oregon is our playground thanks to our incredible park system. That's why it's so cool that Oregon Lottery gameplay like video lottery or cash pop, helps support tons of parks projects statewide like accessible trails at Silver Falls State park or upgrades to your favorite dog park in Newburgh. It's just one way a little lottery play for many Oregonians can add up to a lot of good the Oregon Lottery. Together we do good things. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only. Must be 18 or older to play.

[Sue Simpson]

I'm Josh Mankiewicz and I hope you'll join us for season four of DATELINE Missing in America. In each episode of dateline's award winning series, we will focus on one missing persons case and hear from the families, the friends and the investigators all desperate to find them. You will want to listen closely. Maybe you could help investigators solve a mystery. DATELINE Missing in America. Follow now to listen to the first episode. Tuesday, June 10th, taking over the helm.

[Rachel White]

Of NBC Nightly News, a 75 year old broadcast. It's a great responsibility. Good evening. I'm Tom Yamas. You have to go out there to bring people at home closer to the store. Wildfires continue to be a threat. With that massive hurricane comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to listen. And when you listen, you get the truth. For NBC News. For NBC News, NBC News, I'm Tom Yamas. That's what we do every night, NBC.

[Andrea Canning]

Nightly News with Tom Yamas. Evenings on NBC. For our next story, we're heading to Lenaway County Courthouse in Michigan for the latest on a case Josh Mankiewicz and the DATELINE Missing in America team have been following for years, the murder of 52 year old grandmother and entrepreneur Deanne Warner. One Sunday in late April 2021, Dee's daughter took her kids over to Dee's farm for breakfast like she did Every week. Only Dee was not there. She'd vanished. What followed was the family's desperate search for answers, which Josh Mankiewicz reported on in season one of dateline's Missing in America podcast.

[Sue Simpson]

And what's missing in Dee's story isn't just a beloved mother for her family. What's also missing are answers and perhaps justice.

[Andrea Canning]

Two years later, Josh had an update.

[Sue Simpson]

On Tuesday, November 21, 2023, Dale Warner, Deann's husband, was arrested and charged with murder and tampering with evidence in connection with her disappearance.

[Andrea Canning]

Dee's body still hadn't been found until nine months later. Investigators removed a large metal tank from a barn on Dale's farm, X rayed it, and discovered a body stuffed inside. It was Dee. The developments didn't stop there. A lot has happened in just the past few weeks, including the filing of a new multimillion dollar civil suit and some key decisions in the courtroom as lawyers gear up for trial. Here to bring us up to speed is my friend and colleague, Josh Mankiewicz. Hey, Josh. Hi, Josh. This is the first time you and I have talked about this case since Dee's body was found last fall. What have you learned since then?

[Sue Simpson]

The case is proceeding and it's going to go to trial. You know, there is some evidence of Dale being in the barn where the T was around the time she disappeared. He's pleaded not guilty. But there have been a few things that have happened since then. Her kids have filed a lawsuit. You know, Dee was a businesswoman and owned a trucking company and a lot of property. So, I mean, she had some significant assets. And her kids have NOW filed a $100 million lawsuit against Dale, Dee's adult.

[Andrea Canning]

Children from a previous marriage filed the suit in part because they want to stop Dale from using from Dee's estate for his defense.

[Sue Simpson]

Yeah, look, I don't know how much money is in Deez estate, but it's significant what her kids want to do, and I haven't spoken with them, but what I think what they're doing is trying to make sure that if money was the motive, if getting out of that marriage and getting all of her money was, was, was Dale's motive. If he is convicted or if he's acquitted, they want to make sure that he does not get that money.

[Andrea Canning]

If you listen to the attorney for this wrongful death lawsuit, Todd Flood, he is suggesting that Dale might not be the only one named in this lawsuit, that there are other people at play here.

[Sue Simpson]

Possibly they're hinting at other people, but we don't really know who that is at this point.

[Andrea Canning]

There is one person whose name has come up, and that is Dale's son, Jaron, Dee's stepson. A prosecutor actually charged him in connection to the case, but then they ended up dropping those charges. Josh, what happened with that?

[Sue Simpson]

Well, he was charged with being an accessory after the fact and tampering with evidence. So, you know, I think the assumption at the time was he wasn't there when it happened. But, you know, his dad said, can you help me out? Whatever prosecutors thought at one time, they later did not think that they had any kind of provable case against Jaron. They dropped the charges without prejudice back in May. And what that means is, of course they can refile if they want. Maybe there's going to be some pressure on him to talk, but there is no way to know. And whether Jaren is one of those people that the attorney is hinting will also be added to the lawsuit. We don't know that either.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, and we should say that Jaron's attorney said that he should never have been charged and he denies being involved. On top of all that, Dale appeared remotely in court last week for a motions hearing and his defense team made some oral arguments. One was about a change of venue request.

[Sue Simpson]

Yeah, I think they're making the argument pretty early that social media buzz and news media coverage is making it impossible for Dale to get a fair trial in Lenaway County. And, you know, I mean, Dee was a well known person there.

[Andrea Canning]

Something that was really interesting, Josh, you know this is trials of the future, right? 2025. Apparently someone from Lenoe county posted on a Justice for D Facebook page, you know how. Giving tips on how to be a stealth juror. Can you explain that for us?

[Sue Simpson]

There was some stuff on. On. On Facebook about how to be a stealth juror, which essentially means, you know, go back over your own social media. And you know that post you wrote where it says, you know, Dale Warner should burn in hell? Delete that and delete anything else that you wrote that that makes it clear that you have an. I must say this is the first time I've seen that advice given somewhere.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, me too. This is the first I'm hearing of this. Josh, how did the judge react to all the things we just talked about that were brought up by the defense?

[Sue Simpson]

Well, I mean, he essentially said that all the media buzz was just too early to be a problem, but denied it without prejudice, meaning they can resubmit it.

[Andrea Canning]

Fair enough. And Josh, the defense also wanted to stop a prosecution witness from testifying.

[Sue Simpson]

The defense wanted to stop a particular witness from testifying at the trial on the grounds that that witness had given false statements to the media about the case. And the judge denied the defense motion on that, too. And here's the thing. Lying in court is a crime. Lying to reporters is not should be.

[Andrea Canning]

But it's not always so much going on before a trial actually starts. That's what I think people don't realize. Josh so when can we expect Dale to go trial?

[Sue Simpson]

I mean, it's set for January of next year. That doesn't mean it won't slip. And that is a lovely time of year in Lenway County.

[Andrea Canning]

Josh, you're working on another season of Missing in America, your podcast, which just, I have to say, won a Webby. Congratulations.

[Sue Simpson]

Well, thank you. Thank you very much. A brand new season of Missing In America, season four, six brand new missing persons cases debuts June 10th. And it's it's six episodes which will be released on a weekly basis. And they are six very good stories.

[Andrea Canning]

Well, you're doing really good work and we will have you back to talk more about that. Josh, thank you so much for joining us and bringing us this update on Dee Warner. We appreciate it.

[Sue Simpson]

Thanks, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Up next, we've got some big updates in DATELINE Roundup, angry emails and the murder trial of former major League baseball pitcher Dan Serafini, the dramatic moment in court that led to a delay in Lori Valo Debel's latest trial and justice for Crystal Rogers family. Plus, we're joined by a courtroom sketch artist.

[Oregon Lottery Representative]

In the summer, all of Oregon is our playground thanks to our incredible park system. That's why it's so cool that Oregon Lottery gameplay, like video lottery or cash pop, helps support tons of parks projects statewide like accessible trails at Silver Falls State park or upgrades to your favorite dog park in Newburgh. It's just one way a little lottery play from many Oregonians can add up to a lot of good the Oregon Lottery. Together we do good things. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only. Must be 18 or older to play.

[Andrea Canning]

Welcome back. For this week's roundup, we're joined by DATELINE producer Rachel White. Hey, Rachel.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Hey, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

So, Rachel, for our first story, we are headed back to a Kentucky courtroom for an update on the trial of Steve Lawson, one of three men charged in connection to the murder of 35 year old Crystal Rogers. Rachel, we talked about this case last week. I know you've been in the courtroom. Just give our listeners a quick refresher on this one?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Sure. So back in 2015, Crystal Rogers, the mom of five, was reported missing by her family. Three months went by, and even though her body still to this day has never been found, the local sheriff announced that Crystal was likely dead and that her boyfriend at the time, a man by the name of Brooks Hauk, was a suspect in her disappearance.

[Andrea Canning]

No arrests were made until 2023, eight years later. Her boyfriend, who you mentioned, and two other men, a father and son by the names of Steve and Joseph Lawson. They were all charged in connection with her murder. So Steve's trial was up first. What charges was he looking at?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So Steve Lawson was charged with conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with evidence. And if you remember, just days after Crystal's disappearance, her car was found abandoned on the side of the Bluegrass Parkway. Prosecutors alleged that Steve's son, Joseph Lawson, was responsible for driving her car to the parkway and that Steve picked him up.

[Andrea Canning]

Steve pleaded not guilty and took the stand in his defense last week, which is something we don't always see with defendants. What did he have to say?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

He admitted to the tampering with physical evidence charge. He said that he did move Crystal's car at the request of her boyfriend, Brooks Hauck, but he said he had nothing to do with her disappearance or her murder and that he didn't know anything about it.

[Andrea Canning]

For a case that went almost a decade without an arrest, this trial moved pretty quickly. Just under a week, and the jury reached a verdict in about two hours. What was the verdict?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah, it went really fast. Steve Lawson was found guilty on both charges.

[Andrea Canning]

Crystal was really close to her mom, and this has just been so hard on her family. What was their reaction in the courtroom for any family members who were present?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So just like you've said, I mean, they've been really pursuing justice for Crystal for 10 years at this point. So I think they felt that this was a long time coming, and it was an emotional moment. Crystal's daughter spoke about the fact that her mom was going to miss her upcoming wedding. She's getting married this summer, and Crystal won't be there to see that happen. So it's very sad.

[Andrea Canning]

There's still so much we don't know about this case, Rachel. And I'm sure we'll find out a lot more when the trial of the two other men begins.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yeah. So Joey Lawson and Brooks Hauck are being tried together, and that's scheduled to start at the end of June on Tuesday, June 24. So it's coming up.

[Andrea Canning]

We'll look for updates on that. Up next, another update on the trial of former Major league baseball pitcher Dan Serafini. He is accused of murdering his father in law, Gary Spore, and the attempted murder of his mother in law, Wendy wood, back in 2021 at their home in Lake Tahoe, California. Sara Feeney has pleaded not guilty. What's happening there?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

So the prosecution is still laying out. Their case. This week was focused on digital evidence, specifically texts and emails sent between Sara Feeney, his wife Aaron, and his in laws in the run up to the shootings. An investigator read some of the messages to the jury and the big takeaway was that there appeared to be a lot of conflict between the couple, Aaron's parents, mainly over money.

[Andrea Canning]

So the language in the. In these text messages is quite heated.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yes. So Gary Spore and Wendy call Sarafini, quote, belligerent and vicious, and call him out for being violent and say he has a temper problem.

[Andrea Canning]

The investigator, Rachel, also testified about Sarafini's phone activity the day of the homicide, or lack thereof, we should say yes.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

The investigator looked at the messages Sara Feeney sent from his phone in the month before and the month after his in laws were attacked. And the only day his phone had zero outgoing messages was the day of the homicide.

[Andrea Canning]

Interesting. Moving on to Arizona, where court proceedings for Lori Valo Debel's third trial have been delayed following some pretty dramatic scenes in court. She's on trial for charges of conspiring to murder her niece's former husband, Brandon Boudreau. Rachel, what's happening there?

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Lori Valo Debel's trial was set to begin jury selection last Friday, but Lori told the judge she was unwell. And so the judge had the 60 potential jurors return on Monday morning. But on Monday, it appeared Lori's illness had only gotten worse, and she arrived to court in a wheelchair and reported that she was too sick to proceed with the jury selection.

[Andrea Canning]

I did not plan on getting sick. I did not try to get sick. This isn't anything to do with anything other than the fact that I'm incapable of going forward and doing a good job representing myself. Things only got stranger, Rachel. When the judge told Lori, he checked to see how she was feeling before making her come back to court. And she had quite the reply. Huh. You're welcome to come over to the jail and come to my cell and see how I'm doing in there.

[Sue Simpson]

All right, I'll take a pass on that.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

It would be interesting to know how the potential jurors are taking all of this, Judge Bereski brought them in and apologized for the delay and said that if they were seated for the jury later this week, he'd buy them donuts. A potential juror replied, that'll work, before the group was dismissed.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, always theatrics with Lori Valo Debel. She was back in court Wednesday, and jury selection did get underway. All right, Rachel, thank you so much for joining us.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Thank you for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

Several of the big trials we've been covering recently have had one thing in common. No cameras in the courtroom. Whether it was Steve Lawson trial for a conspiracy to commit murder that just wrapped up in Kentucky or the federal sex trafficking trial of music mogul Sean Combs underway right now in New York, the only pictures coming out of those courtrooms have been ones sketched by an artist. Our next guest, Christine Cornell, has dedicated her career to capturing iconic courtroom moments and defendants with her sketchpad. Christine, welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly.

[Christine Cornell]

Thank you very much.

[Andrea Canning]

And as soon as your face popped up, I knew I've seen you before in the courtroom.

[Christine Cornell]

That's fun.

[Andrea Canning]

I definitely have seen you in New York. So, Christine, you just spent the day at the Sean Combs trial. You probably walk past dozens of cameras outside the courthouse. Do you feel a responsibility to capture what they are not allowed to in that courtroom?

[Christine Cornell]

It's what I do, my dear.

[Andrea Canning]

So tell us about it.

[Christine Cornell]

Yeah, No, I adore it. You know, people are fascinating. The stories are fascinating. It's always a challenge. And when you're lucky, you make art. And at the very least, you give them what they need to tell the story, you know?

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And you're, you're probably, you know, covering mostly, you know, higher profile trials. Right. If there's a need for a sketch artist. So. Yeah.

[Christine Cornell]

No traffic court.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Yes. No. Johnny ran a red light. You will not be there. Nope.

[Christine Cornell]

Nope.

[Andrea Canning]

So, Christine, what are some of the trials you've covered that really stand out to you?

[Christine Cornell]

Well, since I've been doing it for 50 years, you know, there's all the Mafia trials. You know, John Gotti and Vinnie the Chin Gigante was an awful, very interesting character. Yeah. And then there was Leona and Martha and Imelda Marcos, you know, all the queens.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Martha Stewart also. You covered Weinstein as well.

[Christine Cornell]

Yes.

[Andrea Canning]

When you're drawing them, are you just trying to get it right, like, as close as you can, or are you trying to capture, like, more of a feeling or what, you know, is it. Can you describe that?

[Christine Cornell]

It's both things. You know, you want to have an accurate drawing that really resembles them. And you want to capture a little bit of the dynamic of the courtroom. You know, you can't help but feel that there was a tension between P. Diddy and, you know, Cassie. I could see it on her, you know, because, you know, she held her own, but she wept a little. And Diddy, of course, is fighting for his life. So, you know, he's in warrior mode.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. So you're trying to capture also some personality there then as well. State of mind.

[Christine Cornell]

Sure.

[Andrea Canning]

How many drawings do you do in a day?

[Christine Cornell]

Three to five or six. After two weeks, I counted that I'd done 39 drawings.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay.

[Christine Cornell]

And I haven't added up this next week, but it's, you know, I'm doing a lot.

[Andrea Canning]

This isn't actually the first time you've drawn Sean Combs. You were the sketch artist when he faced trial in 2001, going back in time. And that was for when Sean Combs was accused of firing a gun inside a Manhattan club. He was acquitted of that.

[Christine Cornell]

Right.

[Andrea Canning]

I'm curious, because this is many years later, he's been in a federal detention center. And so we haven't gotten to see public photos of him. So it's really you, you know, showing us kind of how he's changed and what he's looked like. Tell us about that.

[Christine Cornell]

I think he's been working out a ton.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay.

[Christine Cornell]

He's got a very broad back. He looks. He looks solid.

[Andrea Canning]

Solid, okay.

[Christine Cornell]

Yeah. And then, of course, everyone's fascinated that he can't get hair dye.

[Andrea Canning]

Is he all gray, then?

[Christine Cornell]

Nope. He's salt and pepper on the sides, a little wider on top, and his little tiny goatee is very white.

[Andrea Canning]

This is all fascinating. You know, there are times where we know that sketch artists get critical feedback sometimes. How do you deal with that? You know, if you hear I've done.

[Christine Cornell]

Very little of it, for the most part, I get a lot of affirmation. You know, Puffy Combs, mom is sitting behind me, and she tapped me on the shoulder and gave me a thumbs up. She likes the way I'm drawing her son.

[Andrea Canning]

Really?

[Christine Cornell]

And I said, well, ma' am, do you mind if I draw you? And she right away started posing for me.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, my goodness. Do the defendants. Do you find them looking at you sometimes?

[Christine Cornell]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

Does that make you uneasy at all or just, you know, having the eyes on you?

[Christine Cornell]

You know, I was looking at Puffy on the first day of trial with my binoculars up.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, you have binoculars in court?

[Christine Cornell]

Yes, ma' am.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, wow.

[Christine Cornell]

And I will use them even if somebody is not sitting terribly far away from me because I want to see as much as I can see. So anyway, I had my binoculars on him and I see him looking straight at me. So it sort of feels like a social faux pas. I put him down like almost comically.

[Andrea Canning]

Quickly and he went, so Christine, you can't see this, but she's waving. So he was waving at you?

[Christine Cornell]

He did.

[Andrea Canning]

Well, thank you so much for doing this interview.

[Christine Cornell]

You're a sweetheart. Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

Thanks. Just super interesting. If you want to take a look at some of Christine's sketches, you can find them on our [e-mail] and if you want to catch up on the Sean Combs trial, check out our daily podcast on trial. Every day after court, I'll be talking to NBC News correspondent Chloe Meloss about what she's seen, the witnesses, the evidence and what it all means. That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. To get ad free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to DATELINE Premium. Next week we'll have more on the Karen Reid retrial and an update on a case we haven't talked about on the podcast before. But it's one DATELINE fans will recognize. The Pam Hupp saga coming up this Friday on NBC. Keith Morrison has a classic Dateline for in 1997, a 21 year old electrician was found shot to death on his bedroom floor. Investigators quickly zeroed in on three teenage girls.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

I was still in high school, so.

[Karen Reed]

Everyone was saying who they thought did it and everything.

[Andrea Canning]

The detective called and asked you to look in the yearbook.

[Josh Mankiewicz]

Yes, I said, oh my gosh.

[Andrea Canning]

But it would take years before the plot unraveled. Watch Keith's episode Mean Girls this Friday on NBC at 9, 8 Central. Thanks for listening. DATELINE True Crime Weekly is produced by Franny Kelly and Katie Ferguson. Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown. Karloff Production and fact checking help by Logan Johnson. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Date Line. All right, thanks very much.

[Oregon Lottery Representative]

Hey guys. Willie Geist here reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit down podcast. On this week's episode, I get together with Ina Garten in front of a live studio audience for the second ever Sunday Sit down live event. We talked about her rise from home cook to culinary icon with some hosting tips and a proper dessert tray mixed into too. You can get our conversation for free wherever you download your podcasts.