Survivors' haunting texts in Idaho. Questions for a New York prosecutor. And a spring break mystery.

Summary

Dateline: True Crime Weekly – Episode Summary
Release Date: March 13, 2025
Host: Andrea Canning, NBC News

---

1. Unveiling Haunting Texts in the Idaho Murders

The episode opens with a deep dive into the chilling 2022 murders of four University of Idaho students. Charged with these heinous crimes is Bryan Kohberger, who has pleaded not guilty and is slated for trial in August. Recent developments reveal that over a dozen court filings have been unsealed, shedding light on the terrifying events of that night.

Key Insights:

• Survivors' Testimonies: The two surviving roommates provided harrowing accounts of the night. At [04:15], Andrea Canning highlights, "Around 4:19 am, Dylan Mortenson is woken up and has presumably seen a stranger in the house...she calls her housemates out of fear."
• Text Messages: The unsealed texts between Dylan Mortenson and Bethany Funk paint a vivid timeline of fear and confusion. At [04:39], Laura Jarrett notes, "Dylan was clearly freaked out," emphasizing their decision to hunker down together.
• 911 Call Transcript: The transcript offers a glimpse into the morning after the murders. At [05:36], Jarrett explains, "They say something has happened in our house...she's not waking up," hinting at the gruesome reality without direct mention of blood, leaving room for interpretation.

Legal Maneuvers:

• Defense's Death Penalty Motion: The defense team is attempting once again to remove the death penalty option by arguing Kohberger's autism spectrum disorder as grounds for "cruel and unusual punishment" ([06:36]). However, Laura Jarrett expresses skepticism about the motion's success due to Idaho's stringent standards ([07:03]).
• Vocabulary Restrictions: Another significant motion seeks to limit the use of terms like "murderer," "psychopath," and "bushy eyebrows" during the trial ([07:33]). This move is anticipated to spark intense debates, especially since "bushy eyebrows" could be a key identifying feature for Kohberger.

2. The Long-Awaited Trial of Megan McDonald’s Accused Killer

Twenty-year-old Megan McDonald was brutally murdered in March 2003, and her trial only commenced two decades later following new DNA evidence. Her family has been relentless in seeking justice, despite facing significant obstacles.

Case Developments:

• Arrest and Charges: In April 2023, DNA evidence implicated Edward Holly, Megan's ex-boyfriend, leading to his indictment in January 2024 for second-degree murder ([11:08]).
• Family’s Struggle: Megan's family has been vocal about delays in the case, attributing them to obstruction by former Orange County District Attorney David Hoover. At [16:26], it's revealed that Hoover allegedly tampered with the investigation, prompting the appointment of two special prosecutors.
• Prosecutor's Stance: Hoover has recused himself, denying any wrongdoing ([16:12]). Megan's mother took the stand, expressing decades of pain and a steadfast trust in the legal system to deliver justice ([17:38]).

Notable Quotes:

• Veronica Mazza at [11:45] shares, "Waiting for this day for 20 years," reflecting the family's enduring hope.
• Hoover responded vehemently to allegations, stating, "Any suggestion that I or anyone in my office did anything to tamper...is inaccurate, unfair, and offensive" ([16:26]).

3. Menendez Brothers' Continued Battle for Freedom

Lyle and Eric Menendez, convicted in 1989 for the murder of their parents, are once again in the spotlight as they seek parole after nearly 30 years in prison.

Recent Developments:

• DA's Reversal: Newly elected District Attorney Nathan Hockman has withdrawn a previous motion for their resentencing, stating that the brothers "haven't taken responsibility" for their actions ([21:20]).
• Brothers' Response: Their lawyer criticized the DA's decision as "showboating and grandstanding," while their extended family remains unified in their support ([21:28]).

Key Points:

• Responsibility Acknowledgment: The DA emphasized that only if the brothers "unequivocally, sincerely and fully accept complete responsibility" would their sentencing be reconsidered ([21:20]).

4. Dana Chandler’s Third Trial Verdict in Kansas

Dana Chandler faced her third trial in Kansas for the murders of her ex-husband and his girlfriend. This prolonged legal battle culminated in a guilty verdict.

Trial Highlights:

• Verdict Announcement: On [23:46], Veronica Mazza reports, "The jury find Dana Chandler guilty of murder in the first degree as charged in count two."
• Courtroom Reaction: Chandler's demeanor post-verdict was described as "anticlimactic," suggesting she anticipated the outcome ([23:58]).

Case Background:

• Previous Trials: Previously, Chandler represented herself, leading to a hung jury after her first conviction was overturned by the Kansas Supreme Court.

5. Spring Break Mystery: The Disappearance of Sudiksha Konanki

A 20-year-old pre-med student from Northern Virginia, Sudiksha Konanki, vanished during a spring break trip to the Dominican Republic, sparking a complex investigation.

Investigation Details:

• Last Seen Alive: Konanki was last seen walking on the beach at 4 am with a 24-year-old from Iowa. Surveillance footage and witness statements have been inconsistent ([24:19]).
• Search Operations: Extensive searches are underway, involving helicopters, drones, and coordination with agencies like the FBI and DEA ([24:47]).
• Suspicious Activity: The last person seen with her provided conflicting accounts, leading the Virginia sheriff to issue an Interpol alert ([25:59]).

Notable Developments:

• Delayed Reporting: Friends did not report her missing until the afternoon, raising questions about potential foul play and the true nature of her disappearance ([25:25]).

6. The Role and Controversy of Expert Witnesses in Karen Reid's Trial

The episode delves into the complexities surrounding expert witnesses in court, particularly in the case of Karen Reid, who is on trial for the alleged murder of her boyfriend.

Expert Witnesses Explained:

• Purpose: Experts are called to provide specialized knowledge beyond the average juror's understanding ([27:07]).
• Challenges: High costs and potential biases, often leading to conflicting testimonies known as the "battle of the experts" ([28:03]).

Karen Reid's Case:

• Defense Team Issues: The prosecution alleges that Reid's defense improperly used expert witnesses without proper disclosure, including undisclosed payments totaling $24,000 ([29:16]).
• Defense's Response: The defense claims any discrepancies were due to poorly worded statements, a stance Attorney Danny Savalos finds unconvincing ([31:11]).

Legal Implications:

• Disclosure Obligations: Completely transparent disclosure is mandatory to ensure fair cross-examination, a critical aspect the defense is being scrutinized for failing ([31:24]).

Upcoming Hearings:

• Pretrial Resumption: Karen Reid's pretrial hearings are set to resume on March 18, with intense scrutiny on the defense team's handling of expert witnesses ([31:33]).

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Conclusion

This episode of Dateline: True Crime Weekly meticulously unpacks multiple high-profile cases, offering listeners an in-depth look into ongoing trials, investigative breakthroughs, and the intricate dance of legal strategies. From the harrowing Idaho student murders to the enduring quest for justice in Megan McDonald's case, Andrea Canning and her guests provide compelling narratives enriched with expert insights and firsthand accounts.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Laura Jarrett ([04:15]): "Around 4:19 am, Dylan Mortenson is woken up and has presumably seen a stranger in the house..."
• Veronica Mazza ([11:45]): "Waiting for this day for 20 years."
• Danny Savalos ([27:29]): "Not only do they take money, they take a lot of money."

Transcript

[Andrea Canning]

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[Laura Jarrett]

Hey, good morning.

[Andrea Canning]

DATELINE story meeting is getting underway.

[Laura Jarrett]

We're talking about losing my hour of light.

[Danny Savalos]

I'm just talking to William, who's here watering the plants, and he is not happy with it.

[Laura Jarrett]

Me either.

[Andrea Canning]

Our editorial team is catching up on the latest twists and turns in cases we've been watching around the country.

[Danny Savalos]

I wonder, I mean, do we think she would ever talk?

[Veronica Mazza]

Would we be interested in that?

[Laura Jarrett]

Monica supposedly has her lover saying she didn't do it, I did it.

[Veronica Mazza]

He thinks the family of the missing woman feels something happened to her, but they have no evidence of that yet.

[Andrea Canning]

Welcome to DATELINE, True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's March 13th, and here's what's on our docket. After a college student was murdered in a New York town over two decades ago, her family refused to stop looking for answers. This week, the trial of her accused killer finally began.

[Sergey Ivonen]

Meghan's family and the New York State Police say that one person really stood in the way.

[Andrea Canning]

We've got our roundup of the latest crime headlines. A verdict in the third murder trial of Dana Chandler, the latest on the search for a college student who disappeared on spring break in the Dominican Republic and an update from the prosecutor handling the Menendez brothers case.

[Veronica Mazza]

He says the brothers haven't taken responsibility.

[Andrea Canning]

Plus, expert witnesses in the courtroom. After Karen Reed's defense team came under fire recently for their use of expert witnesses, we wondered, what are the rules? NBC News legal analyst Danny Savalos breaks it down for us.

[Danny Savalos]

Not only do they take money, they take a lot of money.

[Andrea Canning]

But before all that, we're heading to Idaho, where we learned terrifying new details last week about the night four students were murdered in 2022. It's a case you know well by now. 4 University of Idaho students stabbed to death in their beds in November of 2022. Bryan Kohberger, the man charged with their murders and who has pleaded not guilty, is set to go on trial in August. But many details in the case have been filed under seal, kept out of the public eye until last week, when Judge Steven Hippler ordered more than a dozen filings be unsealed. And what those filings revealed are harrowing details from the night and morning after the murder, as told in real time by the two roommates who survived. Here to help us break down what we've learned is NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett. Hey, Laura.

[Laura Jarrett]

Always happy to be with you.

[Andrea Canning]

Thank you for coming on. So this. This is pretty big. It hasn't been often in this case that we've gotten these sorts of documents unsealed. Any idea, first of all, why these court filings are being unsealed now?

[Laura Jarrett]

Yeah. So I think partly the background here is that there is a relatively new judge on the case who is acting a lot more expeditiously on everything and has a much different approach to sealing. Some judges are very lenient with sealing. Some judges really don't like it. Given that these two surviving roommates are likely gonna be called to testify at trial, I'm sure the judge's position is all of this is gonna come out pretty soon anyway, so there's really not the same urgency in keeping it secret.

[Andrea Canning]

What are the big new things that we've learned from these motions being unsealed?

[Laura Jarrett]

The biggest revelations are the transcript of the and the text messages that are being sent between the two surviving roommates around 4 in the morning of the night that the students were killed. And all of that we had never seen before.

[Andrea Canning]

The text messages and phone calls really help give a timeline of what these surviving roommates experienced. It's very terrifying. Around 4:19am, one of the roommates, Dylan Mortenson, is woken up and has presumably seen a stranger in the house. And the filing reveals that she calls her housemates out of fear and really to warn them. Right.

[Laura Jarrett]

And she was clearly freaked out. You see her even say, I'm so freaked out right now.

[Andrea Canning]

And then a few minutes later, according to the filing, Dylan, who is on the second floor, texts the other roommate, Bethany Funk, who is in the basement, about what she sees the stranger wearing. She says it's like a ski mask almost.

[Laura Jarrett]

It's also clear they're not quite sure what they saw.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Laura Jarrett]

You know, by all accounts, was this was a party house. Right. There's a lot of people coming in and out. And so I don't think it was that unusual for them to probably see someone that they didn't know in the house. But they were scared enough that it appears from their text messages that they hunker down together in the bedroom because you can see one saying the other, come here. Run. And then you don't see them say anything until the next morning around 10:30. They start texting their deceased roommates, not knowing, of course, that they had been killed, saying, please answer. And then they finally call 911.

[Andrea Canning]

And so the unsealing of the transcript, the 911 call that was placed about the murders, that gives also a window into what happened the following morning.

[Laura Jarrett]

Yeah, so we KNEW they called 911, obviously, and we knew when they called, but we hadn't seen sort of the back and forth. And what becomes clear is as at least one or possibly two other individuals and friends come over to the house. They go look, and they find Zanner Kernodle's body. And they say to the 911 operator, something has happened in our house. We don't know what, but you have to come over here because something has happened. And they say, she's not waking up. And you think, like, gosh, they've been stabbed. What a horrific scene they must have seen there. But it's interesting they don't say that on the 911 tape. And it's just. Is it the shock? Is it. Was it too overwhelming? Could they not tell right away? It's unclear what's going on there, but they don't mention any blood on the 911 call, which I thought was curious, but again, it's hard to know, is it they're so overwhelmed in the moment, or they didn't see.

[Andrea Canning]

Another filing that was unsealed last week was one from the defense team. They've previously tried to get the death penalty taken off the table for Kohberger, unsuccessfully. But they are trying again, and this time with a different argument. They are saying that a psychological evaluation shows Kohberger has autism Spectrum disorder and that subjecting him to the death penalty would be cruel and unusual punishment.

[Laura Jarrett]

The judge has not yet resolved that motion, so it's gonna be interesting to see how he handles it. But given his posture on the other death penalty motions, I think it's gonna be an uphill battle for the defense team. Also, because the state of Idaho does not use mental difference or disability or illness as a way of changing the culpability of somebody's mental state when it comes to a case, case like this. And so it's not, at least so far, been a grounds to get the death penalty stricken in Idaho.

[Andrea Canning]

Another big motion from the defense. They're asking to limit the use of some words in trial, words that could be key in a murder case.

[Laura Jarrett]

Yeah, they wanna limit the use of the word murderer, which you can imagine a prosecutor is gonna fight that. Cause they were gonna use that in closing, as in openings. They also wanna limit the use of the word psychopath and sociopath, which in my mind are like medical definitions that actually have specific meanings. And so I'm not sure that the prosecutors would have intended to use those terms anyway. And then they also want to keep out the phrase bushy eyebrows, which is gonna be a big fight. The surviving roommates, at least one of them, reported to authorities that she saw a masked man with bushy eyebrows. That's gonna become an important fact, I think, later on at trial, as that's sort of the only person who's still living that's gonna be able to ID Bryan Kohberger in some way. Bushy eyebrows, it's not like a tattoo or a birthmark or something. There's lots of people who have bushy eyebrows. And I'm sure he's gonna say that's not enough to ID him. But that's really all authorities have for someone spotting him in the house. And so there's gonna be a fight about that.

[Andrea Canning]

Do you expect these motions to possibly get approved? Or when can we expect another ruling given the that the judge is moving quickly?

[Laura Jarrett]

I would think in at least the next few weeks or so. Cuz so much of this just has to get wrapped up to keep the trial date, which the judge intends to keep, at least so far. And it seems like, you know, August is a while out from right now, but these, these things have a way of taking a while. And so I would imagine the judge is gonna get all of this wrapped up pretty soon.

[Andrea Canning]

Fascinating case and very scary and sad case as well. Laura, thank you for breaking this all down for us as we inch closer and closer to trial anytime. Coming up as a murder trial begins in a more than 20 year old cold case, the victim's family says the local prosecutor has some expl to do.

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[Andrea Canning]

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[Andrea Canning]

On March 13, 2003, 20 year old Megan McDonald did what any college student might do On a Thursday night, she went to a friend's house to watch tv. She stopped by a birthday party, but the next day her family and friends couldn't reach her and her body was later found on a dirt path in Orange County, New York. The cause of death, blunt force trauma with multiple fractures to her skull. In April 2023, there was finally an arrest in the case. Here's our affiliate, NBC 4 New York State Police revealing this afternoon that DNA evidence linked the alleged killer to the crime scene. McDonald's family telling us that they've been.

[Veronica Mazza]

Waiting for this day for 20 years.

[Andrea Canning]

And this week, the trial of Megan's alleged killer finally began. But Megan's family wants to know what took so long. And they aren't the only ones. In a startling turn of events, New York State Police investigators are also pointing the finger at a man stood in the way of justice. And that is the local district attorney. DATELINE digital producer Veronica Mazza is here to bring us up to speed. Veronica, welcome back to the podcast.

[Sergey Ivonen]

Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. So let's just start with. Tell us about Megan McDonald. Who was she?

[Sergey Ivonen]

Yeah, absolutely. She, you know, was a student at SUNY Orange Community College. I've spoken with her sister Karen and her brother in law, James, and they both describe her as warm, loving, compassionate. You know, she was the life of the party. Big, bright smile.

[Andrea Canning]

So, Veronica, what do we know about the last day of Megan's life?

[Sergey Ivonen]

Yeah, so Megan was actually a waitress. She was working a shift, and then she spent the evening hanging out with friends. And then the following day, she was scheduled to work again at that cafe at about noon. And then. So her family and friends really knew something was wrong when she didn't show up for work.

[Andrea Canning]

Investigators learned that Megan had stopped by a birthday party that Thursday night, but she didn't go inside.

[Sergey Ivonen]

Yeah, so it was a birthday party for someone's 21st, and she had driven by the party before she went to go hang out with her friend and watch the TV show Friends. And she had said to two people that she didn't want to go inside because there was someone there named Edward Holly, who she did not want to see. Megan had dated. And according to conversations and information that's come out from the investigation, he owed her money. And she had also tried to cut off the relationship in the days before she died.

[Andrea Canning]

So it sounds like things weren't great between the two of them, But Megan did end up going back to that birthday party, and then this ends up being the last time she's seen alive, right?

[Sergey Ivonen]

Yes. So according to investigators, Megan had told some friends that she was going to be looking for marijuana, and she had planned to actually ask Holly Foursome on her way back home.

[Andrea Canning]

We know Megan's body was found on a dirt path, and her car was found parked in an apartment complex nearby. But, Veronica, do we know what happened when she left the birthday party? Did anyone see anything?

[Sergey Ivonen]

Some witnesses say that they saw someone driving her car through the parking lot the night that investigators say she was killed, and that it was being followed closely by a dark colored Honda Civic that had a noticeably loud sound system, which Holly's mother had a purple Honda Civic hatchback registered to her. And Holly was known to drive that during the timeframe of the murder.

[Andrea Canning]

So Holly was interviewed by police all those years ago, and at some point, the investigation hit a wall. But they took another look at him.

[Sergey Ivonen]

Holly, kind of the statements that he had been making to police through the years. They realized that there were inconsistencies.

[Andrea Canning]

So Edward Hawley became the prime suspect. But investigators also say Holly wasn't the only one at the scene of the murder. Right.

[Sergey Ivonen]

So they believe that he was in the backseat of her car and that there Was someone else also in the car who they refer to as suspect number two? Suspect number two is someone that actually died many years ago. But he had come forward to a defense attorney and said he had details about the night of Megan's murder and he wanted to take a plea deal.

[Andrea Canning]

Why didn't that go anywhere?

[Sergey Ivonen]

You know, I'm not sure why that didn't go anywhere at the time.

[Andrea Canning]

All right, so Edward Hawley was indicted in January 2024. He has pleaded not guilty to second degree murder charges. And his defense says the prosecution's looking in the wrong place, that they should really be looking at a different ex boyfriend. So we'll learn a lot more over the coming weeks at trial. Police. But one really important thing looming over all of this is Megan's family. Her family says the case against Holly should have been made years ago. They want answers. Why did this take so long?

[Sergey Ivonen]

So Megan's family and, you know, the New York State Police say that one person really stood in the way of getting these answers sooner. And they say that person was the Orange County District Attorney, David Hoover.

[Andrea Canning]

Did he feel like there was not enough to go after Holly?

[Sergey Ivonen]

That is something that he has said previously. He felt there wasn't enough to bring the case before a grand jury. But Hoover is the person who was the defense attorney that suspect number two had come to back in 2008, before Hoover was the district attorney. When Hoover became the D.A. he did have an opportunity to recuse himself from the case at the time, but he did not. So the New York State Police, there was an internal report that found that. But as DA he deliberately tampered with the investigation. And he has made statements to NBC News about this. He did say, quote, any suggestion that I or anyone in my office did anything to tamper with or in some fashion compromise the investigation into Ms. McDonald's death is inaccurate, unfair, and offensive. He remains the D.A. but he has recused himself from this case.

[Andrea Canning]

And two special prosecutors have been appointed who are outside Hoover's office to try the case. Megan's mom was on the stand earlier this week. This must be just so hard for them on so many levels.

[Sergey Ivonen]

Yeah. So Megan's family has been holding steady over the last 20 plus years. You know, they obviously are still reeling from the pain of losing Megan, but they did say that they trust the legal system to hold the person responsible for Megan's murder accountable.

[Andrea Canning]

Veronica, thank you so much. This is such a sad story that the family has had to deal with this for this long. We'll see what happens.

[Sergey Ivonen]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

Up next, it's time for DATELINE roundup. We'll have the latest on the Menendez brothers efforts to get out of prison and new information about the college student missing in the Caribbean. The last known person to see her on the beach that night was a 24 year old from Iowa. Does his story add up? Plus, we're taking a look at expert witnesses. We'll do a deep dive into their role in the courtroom and why Karen Reed's defense team is in hot water.

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[Andrea Canning]

Welcome back to the show. For this week's roundup, we've asked DATELINE producer Sergey Ivonen to join us. Hey, Sergey.

[Veronica Mazza]

Hi, Andrea. Good to see you.

[Andrea Canning]

You, too. So the case, the case getting the most attention this week, as it has for almost six months now, is Lyle and Eric Menendez, who are still fighting to get out of prison. They have been incarcerated for almost 30 years since being convicted for killing their parents back in 1989. We have a new DA in town, Sergei, as of last year, and he was gonna make some decisions. So what is the latest on the brothers?

[Veronica Mazza]

Yeah. Last October, the former LA County DA filed a motion asking the court to consider Resentencing. The bro. A new DA Was elected, and his name is Nathan Hockman. And Monday he gave a press conference. He's asking the court to reverse what the previous DA Did. He wants to withdraw the motion asking for the brothers resentencing and said that at a hearing scheduled for late next week, he will argue that the brothers should not be made eligible for parole.

[Andrea Canning]

This is a big blow for the brothers. You know, they were finally getting some traction. What do we know about what he sees differently? Why this big reversal? Different beliefs.

[Veronica Mazza]

Right. Well, this DA Came out and said, look, we might be amenable to resentencing, but he says the brothers haven't taken responsibility.

[Danny Savalos]

If the Menendez brothers at some point, unequivocally, sincerely and fully accept complete responsibility for all their criminal actions, acknowledge that the self defense defense was phony, and their parents weren't going to kill them the night of August 20th when they murdered them in cold blood. District attorney's office will reconsider whether or not we would want to go forward with a risk sentencing motion.

[Andrea Canning]

So the Menendez brothers had a reaction through their lawyer who spoke to the Today Show.

[Nordstrom Representative]

Have you spoken to Lyle and Eric.

[Andrea Canning]

Since this happened and what's their reaction?

[Danny Savalos]

Already prepared him for it. I mean, this DA had made up his mind.

[Veronica Mazza]

Their lawyer said the DA Is showboating and grandstanding and trying to confuse the issue and put the ball back in the governor's court.

[Danny Savalos]

This DA re traumatizes the family repeatedly. He's almost serially abusing them with his lies.

[Veronica Mazza]

Their extended family put out a statement saying the DA has blinders on the fact that Eric and Lyle were repeatedly abused, feared for their lives, and have atoned for their actions. And another twist is that the only family member, Kitty's brother, who for a long time opposed their release, he died last week. So, right as things stand today, all the people affected are united in wanting Lyle and Eric out.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, let's talk about a trial that we've been watching closely. Dana Chandler's third prosecution on charges of killing her ex husband and his girlfriend. This is happening in Kansas. This is a story that you've been working on. Sergey. Tell us what the latest is there.

[Veronica Mazza]

Well, yes, this is the case where the defendant chose to represent herself, called herself as a witness for the defense, and spoke for days. So proceedings took longer than anyone expected.

[Andrea Canning]

The first trial, the jury convicted her. That conviction was thrown out by the Kansas Supreme Court. The second one was a hung jury. And now we have this third jury that did Come to a resolution. We the jury find Dana Chandler guilty.

[Nordstrom Representative]

Of murder in the first degree as charged in count one.

[Andrea Canning]

Verdict form count two. We the jury find Dana Chandler guilty of murder in the first degree as charged in count two.

[Sergey Ivonen]

Okay.

[Veronica Mazza]

The reaction in the courtroom was actually pretty anticlimactic, I would say. Dana turned to her family and her supporters before she was handcuffed and walked out her face said as though she had anticipated that outcome.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, this has been a long saga. We'll see if it's actually truly over.

[Veronica Mazza]

I suspect it's not the last we heard of Dana Chandler.

[Andrea Canning]

Exactly. Finally, last week, a 20 year old pre med student from Northern Virginia, Sudiksha Konanki, was reported missing by her friends. The group of six women were at a resort in the Dominican Republic for spring break. And Sergei, the first reporting was that she went out for a walk on the beach and didn't come back. New information keeps coming out as this story picks up traction.

[Veronica Mazza]

What we know is like the whole group of them went to the beach. They were there at 4 in the morning, as students are known to do, and then they left her there with a guy, they say, who had been partying with them earlier that night. There's still a massive search on for her. They're looking for her in the water, on land, helicopters, drones. Investigators have said they're looking at surveillance footage from the moment that, you know, those students landed last week. You know, the State Department, the FBI, the dea, they're all involved in this. But an interesting thing is that her friends, you know, her friends who stayed on the beach and partied, they did not say anything. They didn't report her missing until 4pm.

[Andrea Canning]

I know her local sheriff from Virginia has been very vocal about this as well, and he has named a person of interest. As of now, this has not been declared a criminal investigation. But do investigators think foul play was involved?

[Veronica Mazza]

The last person seen with her was a 24 year old from Iowa who was a guest at the resort as well. And according to the police, he told three different stories. So on Monday, the sheriff in Virginia filed an Interpol alert. It's a worldwide police alert for a missing person.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Let's hope that the family gets answers soon. Thank you so much, Sergey, for bringing us Roundup this week.

[Veronica Mazza]

My pleasure.

[Andrea Canning]

For our final story, we're getting to the bottom of a legal question that recently stopped one of Karen Reid's pretrial hearings in its tracks. As you all know, Karen Reid is the Massachusetts woman being retried in April on charges she murdered her police officer boyfriend, John o' Keefe, an accusation she vehemently denies. But this week, we're not talking about what Karen did or didn't do. We're talking about her defense team. As we told you on the podcast a few weeks ago, the prosecution has accused Reid's lawyers of being misleading about their use of expert witnesses. We've covered lots of trials here at Dateline that feature expert witnesses. So this made us wonder what the rules actually are. Here to break it down for us is NBC legal analyst and a criminal defense attorney himself, Danny Savalos. Hey, Danny.

[Danny Savalos]

Hey. Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

So, to start, I mean, I know this feels like a fairly obvious question, but it's really important. Why are expert witnesses called to testify during trials?

[Danny Savalos]

Expert witnesses serve a very specific function. If the subject of their testimony is going to be outside the knowledge of your ordinary juror, then you may be permitted to call an expert witness in that area.

[Andrea Canning]

And I think some people are surprised to learn that some of these experts take money to testify.

[Danny Savalos]

Oh, not only do they take money, they take a lot of money. If you have the world's foremost expert on fingerprints, DNA, any of these hyper technical issues, this is somebody that's going to be expensive. And the other important point is that the other side is not only permitted to usually discover that, but also, you can bet they're going to raise that in their cross examination just as a matter of course. It's something we always do. Isn't it true that you were paid over a hundred, $100,000 for your testimony? And that's true, but it's often justified.

[Andrea Canning]

And so it, you know, it brings up that. That challenge for the juror. Of course, the prosecution is only gonna put someone on the stand who agrees with the narrative that they're painting, and the defense is only gonna put someone on the stand, you know, who agrees with the narrative they're painting. And having talked to jurors a lot after some of these trials, you know, you'll hear them say, well, they canceled each other out, so it's tricky.

[Danny Savalos]

Yeah, you're talking about a phenomenon we call battle of the experts. You know, we think of something like science as immutable or unchallengeable, and yet it's not too hard to go out and find two experts who will take dramatically different positions on either side. Now, is that only because they're being paid? No, not necessarily. I mean, you can cherry pick your area of expertise to fit. Fit what you need in your trial, but yes, you're Absolutely right. As you've seen all too often, you'll have experts take the stand and completely contradict each other and leave it for the jury to decide who they like the best.

[Andrea Canning]

And a lot of times on Dateline, we hear that term junk science, where, you know, this expert will present something and then the opposing, you know, attorneys will say, hey, this is junk.

[Danny Savalos]

You're exactly right. So there are limitations on expert testimony. I mean, I mean, you can't just make up an area of science that serves your purpose and then say you're entitled to call an expert to testify about that area. So the judge acts as a gatekeeper before the jury ever hears that testimony to determine that this is a legitimate area, whether it be scientific, technical, whatever the case may be, it's gotta meet at least a minimum standard before a judge allows any old expert to come in and start testifying to a jury.

[Andrea Canning]

So that brings us to the Karen Reed case. Can you break down for us what the judge's issue was exactly with the defense and these experts?

[Danny Savalos]

This is a very unusual situation. This controversy involves accident reconstruction experts. The defense didn't actually hire these experts. The defense used these experts after they had already been retained by a federal agency conducting its own investigation. What's alleged is that the defense team said to the court and to the prosecution, we have had limited access to these guys. We're basically taking them as we find them. We're barely talking to them. We haven't paid them anything. Well, now it seems that the defense may have possibly violated their obligation to disclose information about the level of, let's say, coziness that the defense had with these experts. Prosecutors allege that there were emails between the defense team and the these experts and in addition, an alleged payment of about $24,000. If true, and this wasn't disclosed, that's a huge problem for the defense.

[Andrea Canning]

And the defense is saying they're not hiding anything. That working with these experts that simply their statements in previous motions were poorly worded. Is that. Do you buy that?

[Danny Savalos]

That may be a lot of what we call lawyerly backpedaling at this point. But here's the thing. You've got to disclose information about your gotta give the other side the opportunity to cross examine them as completely as they can.

[Andrea Canning]

Reid's pretrial hearings resume on March 18, and we'll certainly be watching. Danny, thanks so much for joining us.

[Danny Savalos]

Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. To find out more about the cases discussed on the podcast, check out datelinetruecrimeweekly.com and if you've got any questions for us, hit us up on Social a NBC. And coming up this week on Dateline, Blaine has an all new two hour episode. After a beloved art teacher is shot to death in her home. Her husband tells investigators about the other woman and their unusual marriage. A mistress with the key to the whole mystery. What did you think?

[Veronica Mazza]

It just seemed an odd situation.

[Andrea Canning]

Is there anything that you would like to add to this statement? I hope to catch her. Watch Deadly Entanglement this Friday on NBC at 9, 8 Central or stream it on Peacock starting this Saturday. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Franny Kelly and Katie Ferguson. Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Koroloff. Production and fact checking help by Sara Kadir. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.

[Veronica Mazza]

Have a great day everybody.

[Andrea Canning]

Bye bye bye everyone.

[Danny Savalos]

Hey everybody. Conan o' Brien here with an ad about my podcast. Conan o' Brien needs a friend. I've had so many fantastic conversations with people I truly admire. People like Michelle Obama, Bruce Springsteen, Maya Rudolph, Tom Hanks. New episodes are out every Monday and we have a really good time. So subscribe and listen wherever you get your podcasts.