The Crystal Rogers case at trial. Karen Read prosecution wrapping up. And a lawyer on objections.

Summary

Dateline: True Crime Weekly – May 29, 2025 Episode Summary

Host: Andrea Canning
Episode Focus: The Crystal Rogers Case at Trial, Karen Read Prosecution Wrapping Up, and a Lawyer on Objections.

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Dateline: True Crime Weekly, host Andrea Canning delves deep into the intricate details of the Crystal Rogers case currently at trial. The episode not only covers the latest courtroom developments but also provides insights into courtroom procedures, specifically the use of objections, featuring expert analysis from NBC News legal analyst and defense attorney Danny Savalos.

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The Crystal Rogers Case

Background of the Case

Crystal Rogers, a 35-year-old mother of five, went missing in Dedham, Massachusetts, in July 2015. Despite extensive searches, her body was never found. Initial investigations pointed suspicion toward her boyfriend, Brooks Hauck, but no arrests were made until eight years later.

Investigation and Arrests

In 2023, three men were arrested in connection with Rogers' disappearance:

• Brooks Hauck: Crystal's boyfriend and the father of her youngest child.
• Steve Lawson: A contractor connected to Hauck through their construction business.
• Joseph Lawson: Steve Lawson's son.

All three defendants have pleaded not guilty.

The Trial of Steve Lawson

Steve Lawson is the first to go to trial. Andrea Canning interviews Rachel White, a Dateline Producer present in the courtroom, who provides an in-depth account of the proceedings.

• Relationship Dynamics: Rogers and Hauck had intertwined personal and professional lives. However, Rogers had recently confided in her sister about their deteriorating relationship, indicating potential motives for foul play. (04:17)

• Final Hours of Crystal Rogers: Surveillance footage last captured Rogers at a Wal-Mart at 4:30 PM on July 3. Her vehicle was later found abandoned with her personal belongings intact, raising significant red flags for investigators. (04:52)

• Defendants' Alleged Involvement:

  • Steve Lawson is charged with conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with physical evidence. Prosecutors allege he facilitated the murder by coordinating with Joseph Lawson to dispose of Rogers' vehicle.
  • Brooks Hauck allegedly received a phone call from Steve Lawson on the night Rogers disappeared, which he does not dispute. (06:51)

Courtroom Proceedings

• Prosecution's Final Witness: Sherry, Rogers' mother, takes the stand emotionally, recounting her interactions with Hauck when reporting her daughter's disappearance. She notes, "what stuck out to her about that interaction was that Crystal and Brooks's son was in the backseat of his truck," highlighting anomalies that suggested something was amiss. (07:18, 07:37)

• Trial Progression: The trial is moving swiftly, with expectations to reach a verdict by the end of the week. Future trials for Hauck and Joseph Lawson are scheduled for June. (08:14)

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Karen Reed Retrial and Courtroom Objections

Case Overview

Karen Reed stands accused of fatally striking her Boston police officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe, with her SUV after a night of drinking in early 2022. Reed maintains her innocence, claiming she is being framed by law enforcement.

Prosecution's Strategy

• Expert Testimony: Dr. Judson Welcher, an accident reconstructionist and biomechanical engineer, serves as the prosecution's key witness. His detailed testimony aims to establish beyond doubt that Reed's Lexus struck O'Keefe.

  • Evidence Presented: Dr. Welcher reviewed extensive data, including surveillance footage, cell phone and GPS data, and conducted physical testing by replicating the SUV involved in the incident. He stated, "Based on the totality of the evidence... a reasonable degree of scientific certainty, that is what happened." (16:30)

• Defense's Objections: Reed's defense team challenged Dr. Welcher's expertise and questioned potential last-minute alterations to his testimony. This led to tense courtroom exchanges and objections such as, "Objection. Speculation." (28:09)

Judicial Proceedings

The prosecution is nearing the end of their case, while the defense prepares to present their arguments. Current strategies suggest a focus on discrediting the prosecution's expert and presenting alternative explanations for the incident.

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Additional Case Updates

Cryptocurrency-Related Crime in New York

• Defendants: John Waltz, a 37-year-old crypto investor, and William Du Plessis.

• Charges: Kidnapping, unlawful imprisonment, and assault linked to an alleged attempt to extract a Bitcoin password through torture.

• Alleged Victim: A 28-year-old Italian businessman who managed to escape after being coerced by Waltz and Du Plessis.

• Current Status: Both defendants have entered pleas—Waltz pleaded not guilty, while Du Plessis has yet to enter a plea. (22:07 - 23:32)

Dan Serafini Murder Trial

• Accusations: Former Major League Baseball pitcher Dan Serafini is charged with the murder of his father-in-law, Gary Spoor, and the attempted murder of his mother-in-law, Wendy Spoor.

• Prosecution's Evidence: Surveillance footage and testimonies indicating Serafini's violent tendencies and threats towards his in-laws.

• Key Witnesses: Friends and family members provide conflicting accounts regarding Serafini's behavior and the legitimacy of the surveillance footage.

• Current Focus: Awaiting testimony from Samantha Scott, a woman alleged to have been Serafini's mistress and driver to the crime scene. (23:15 - 26:10)

Hannah Gutierrez Reid Release

• Case Background: Convicted of involuntary manslaughter in the accidental shooting on the set of Alec Baldwin's movie Rust, resulting in the death of cinematographer Helena Hutchins.

• Sentence Details: Originally sentenced to 18 months, Reid served 85% of her term due to New Mexico laws categorizing her offense as non-serious and accounting for good behavior.

• Current Status: Released under dual supervision with probation and parole for one year. (26:01 - 27:32)

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Understanding Courtroom Objections

Importance of Objections

Objections are a critical component of the judicial process, allowing attorneys to challenge the admissibility of evidence or the propriety of questions posed during a trial. According to attorney Danny Savalos, "They are the opposing attorney's way to try and argue against the admissibility of a question or an answer or evidence in general in real time." (28:38)

Common Types of Objections

1. Leading Questions: Suggested answers within the question.
2. Hearsay: Statements made outside of court offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted.
3. Relevance: Evidence must be relevant to be admissible; even relevant evidence may be excluded if it's overly prejudicial.
4. Speculation: Testimonies based on assumptions rather than facts.

Judicial Responses

Judges typically respond to objections with "sustained" (agreeing with the objection) or "overruled" (disagreeing with the objection). An objection can prevent a potentially prejudicial statement from influencing the jury if sustained. However, if overruled, the information remains part of the trial's record. (30:04 - 30:15)

Strategic Use of Objections

Attorneys use objections not only to protect their client's interests but sometimes as a strategic tool to influence the jury's perception. As Savalos notes, "Sometimes you make a choice to let them go... to get a message across," indicating that objections can occasionally serve more as courtroom theatrics than strict legal maneuvers. (31:27 - 32:05)

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Conclusion

This episode of Dateline: True Crime Weekly offers a thorough examination of the Crystal Rogers trial, providing listeners with detailed insights into the complexities of the case and the legal strategies employed by both prosecution and defense. Additionally, the episode broadens its scope by covering other notable true crime stories and demystifying courtroom procedures, making it an essential listen for true crime enthusiasts and those interested in the legal intricacies of high-profile cases.

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For a more detailed exploration of these cases and additional true crime stories, subscribe to Dateline: True Crime Weekly and stay informed on the latest developments in true crime.

Transcript

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[Andrea Canning]

You're listening in to Dateline's morning meeting here at 30 Rockefeller Center.

[Dateline Producer]

This is a curtain raiser for that other child.

[Andrea Canning]

Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news around the country, swapping tips and story ideas. I was going to ask if we had any boots on the ground.

[Dateline Producer]

Is this the one in Mississippi?

[Andrea Canning]

Yes.

[Commercial Voice 1]

With the gold bars?

[Rachel White]

Yes.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Silver bars. Okay.

[Andrea Canning]

Welcome to DATELINE True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's May 29th and here's what's on our docket. In Dedham, Massachusetts, the prosecution calls on a final witness to close out its case against Karen Reed.

[Rachel White]

This is the man who is dealing with the heart of the whole case. Did that Lexus hit John o' Keefe in DATELINE Roundup.

[Andrea Canning]

We've got updates on the murder trial of former Major League baseball pitcher Dan Serafini. And the case of a crypto king now facing charges of torturing a man to get his Bitcoin password. And a postscript to the fatal shooting on the set of Alec Baldwin's movie Rust.

[Danny Savalos]

According to the New Mexico Corrections Department, she will be on parole in the manslaughter case for a year.

[Andrea Canning]

Plus, it's a word you've probably been hearing a lot at the Karen Reid retrial. Objection. But what does it actually mean? And when can you say it? NBC News legal analyst and defense attorney Danny Savalos gives us the lowdown.

[Commercial Voice 2]

If you don't get that objection in fast enough, the judge may not allow you to even make that objection.

[Andrea Canning]

But before that, we're heading to Kentucky where a grieving family may finally get some answers in a 10 year old murder mystery stories. In July 2015, the Nelson County Sheriff's Office got word about a car left abandoned on the side of the Bluegrass Parkway. The maroon Chevy sedan belonged to 35 year old Crystal Rogers, a mother of five who'd been reported missing by her family. Crystal's purse and phone were still inside the car, but there was no sign of Crystal. Her body has never been found. Three months after she vanished, the local sheriff announced that Crystal was most likely dead and named her boyfriend, boyfriend Brooks Hauck, as a suspect in her disappearance. But months soon turned into years and no arrests were made. Crystal's family organized vigils, put up billboards around town, and tried to keep her name in the News. Finally, in 2023, eight years after Crystal first went missing, three men were arrested in connection with her murder. Her boyfriend Brooks Hauk, and a father and son named Steve and Joseph Lawson. All three of the men have pleaded not guilty. This week, Steve Lawson was the first to go to trial. Dateline producer Rachel White has been in the courtroom. We asked her to help us understand the long journey that led to this moment. Hey, Rachel, thanks for joining us.

[Dateline Producer]

Yeah, thanks for having me, Rachel.

[Andrea Canning]

Before we get into what happened in court, let's just remind people where this all started. Back in 2015, Crystal's family jumped into action pretty quickly when they didn't hear from her. Why were they so concerned that something had happened to her that quickly?

[Dateline Producer]

Yeah, so Crystal wasn't responding to text messages. And she was a very devoted mom. She had five kids and she was always, you know, very responsive and there for them.

[Andrea Canning]

Crystal was supposed to be spending the July 4th holiday with her boyfriend and their baby son when she went missing. Rachel, in your reporting on the case, what did you learn about Crystal's relationship with Brooks Hauck?

[Dateline Producer]

They got together back in 2012. Brooks Haug owned a construction company and, and a rental house company. And Crystal eventually went to work for him and helped manage some of those rental properties. So not only were they romantically involved, but they also became, you know, intertwined with their working lives. Brooks was the father of Crystal's youngest child. But just before she disappeared, Crystal told her sister that their relationship was, you know, going downhill, that it was at a breaking point.

[Andrea Canning]

What did investigators find out about Crystal's final hours?

[Dateline Producer]

There was surveillance video of Crystal at Wal at 4:30pm on Friday, July 3. And that's the last time that she's seen on video. Two days later, her car was found on the side of Bluegrass Parkway. Her credit cards hadn't been used. Her cell phone, purse and the keys were found in her car. So there were a lot of red flags for investigators Right away.

[Andrea Canning]

So Brooks Hauck has always maintained his innocence. He cooperated with the sheriff's office. He agreed to a polygraph. What did he tell investigators in those early days about where he was when Crystal disappeared?

[Dateline Producer]

He said that Crystal was home when he went to sleep, and then when he woke up, she was gone.

[Andrea Canning]

The FBI eventually comes into this and starts working on the case. They zero in on Steve and Joseph Lawson. Steve is the one who's on trial right now. Who are Steve and Joseph, and how do they fit in?

[Dateline Producer]

So Stephen Lawson is the father. Joseph Lawson is his son. Brooks and Steve Lawson and Joseph Lawson fit together because Brooks worked in construction, and so he would hire contractors, often to do work. And that's how he met the Lawsons. They both did work on and off for Brooks Hauck over the years.

[Andrea Canning]

Are the prosecutors alleging that Brooks enlisted the help of these two to kill Crystal or help dispose of the body?

[Dateline Producer]

Yeah, so that's exactly what they're doing. So Steve Lawson is facing a conspiracy to commit murder charge, as well as tampering with physical evidence. So they are alleging that he was involved in the planning of the murder, as well as cleaning up after the fact. Prosecutors alleged that Joseph Lawson was the one driving Crystal Rogers car to the spot where it was found on the side of bluegrass parkway. They also said that Steve Lawson is the one who picked up Joseph Lawson from that spot where the car was left.

[Reba McEntire]

And.

[Dateline Producer]

And investigators say that Steve Lawson placed a phone call to Brooks Hauck around midnight the night that Crystal disappeared. Steve Lawson doesn't dispute that he picked up his son from the parkway or that he called Brooks Hauck that night. He does, however, deny having anything to do with Crystal's murder.

[Andrea Canning]

All right, so take us into the courtroom for the beginning of Steve Lawson's trial. The first witness for the prosecution was Crystal's mother, Sherry.

[Dateline Producer]

It was super emotional. I mean, she, you know, was tearing up before she was even asked the first question. And then, you know, it just really your heart breaks for her.

[Andrea Canning]

And what. What was her role for the prosecution being up there? What were they trying to establish with Crystal's mom?

[Dateline Producer]

So Sherry was the person who ultimately reported Crystal missing. And what I learned is that when Sherri was on her way to the police department to report Crystal missing, she actually passed Brooks. And so she met up with him at a gas station on her way there. And, you know, all he said to her was that it was a good idea to report her missing, that he thought that she should, and she said what stuck out to her about that interaction with Brooks was that Crystal and Brooks's son was in the backseat of his truck. And she said knowing her daughter, that baby was always with her. So it really stuck out to her that something was wrong because she didn't have her son.

[Andrea Canning]

The trial seems to be moving along pretty quickly.

[Dateline Producer]

Yeah. The attorneys have said they estimate the case will be in the jury's hands by the end of this week or Monday latest. So we'll see what they decide.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. Brooks Hauk and Joseph Lawson are scheduled to go to trial together in June. We'll check back in for updates. Thanks so much, Rachel.

[Dateline Producer]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

Coming up, the prosecution's final witness in the Karen Reed retrial says the evidence speaks for itself.

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[Andrea Canning]

On dates with the one only to find out later they're really a bum. If you're single and ready to mingle but tired of swiping right on catfish, then you need truthfinder.com truthfinder confidentially searches millions of public records and gives you background reports with criminal and traffic data, divorce info, age, previous bankruptcies and more. The more you know, the less time you blow on someone who isn't worth your energy. Go to truthfinder.com dating to search now. It was a quiet few days in Dedham, Massachusetts, as Karen Reid's retrial paused for the Memorial Day holiday. Reed is accused of hitting her Boston police officer boyfriend, John O' Keefe with her SUV after a night of drinking in early 2022. She says she's innocent and her defense says she is being framed by law enforcement. Tuesday morning, the case was back in front of the jury. Prosecutors called their final witness.

[Commercial Voice 1]

My name is Judson Welcher, sir. What do you do for a profession? I'm an accident reconstructionist and biomechanical engineer.

[Andrea Canning]

Dr. Welcher's testimony stretched over three days. The prosecution wanted to use his insight to wrap up its case for the jury. But the defense wasn't backing down without a fight. Here now with the latest is DATELINE producer Sue Simpson. Welcome back to the podcast, Sue.

[Rachel White]

Hello, Andrea. Hello.

[Andrea Canning]

Yes. I'm not gonna ask you. I know you won the lottery this week. Tell us how court started off after the holiday weekend.

[Rachel White]

Well, Andrea, it was a really slow start on Tuesday. There was a long sidebar. And then the court got going eventually. But Karen's defense attorney, Robert Alessi, was speaking at this sidebar very passionately to the judge and the other attorneys there. You know, I couldn't hear his words, of course, but his voice and his demeanor were intense and we know why. The next witness would be asked the question at the very heart of this case, did Karen Reed's lexus strike John O' Keefe or not? Prosecutors put that witness, Dr. Judson Welcher, on the stand before his testimony started for a brief voir dire. And we should point out Welcher is a new expert. He did not testify at the first trial. The defense objected to some parts of his testimony, saying they were outside his area of expertise. And they also wanted to know if Dr. Welcher made changes to his presentation in the past two weeks after talking to prosecutors. In other words, did the prosecution exert last minute influence on his testimony? There were some tense exchanges.

[Andrea Canning]

Who did you have discussions with from.

[Rachel White]

The Commonwealth about the topics in your PowerPoint presentation?

[Commercial Voice 1]

Mr. Brannon, Mr. Lally, describe those conversations.

[Andrea Canning]

And how many you had, including the.

[Commercial Voice 1]

First one that you had? Well, I originally submitted my presentation with my original report way back, I believe in January.

[Danny Savalos]

Right.

[Andrea Canning]

I'm asking for conversations within the last two weeks.

[Rachel White]

Okay.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Your question wasn't clear.

[Andrea Canning]

The defense was questioning Welcher about whether he updated a slide to match testimony from a previous witness. Shortly after, jurors came into the courtroom, and the trial proceeded. So, sue, as the prosecution's questioning got underway, what did they ask him about?

[Rachel White]

Well, he started out by explaining his background, which is in both accident reconstruction and also biomechanical engineering, explaining how accidents impact the body.

[Commercial Voice 1]

When I'm trying to explain to somebody what I do, I say, hey, it's like a civil engine. Who's designing a bridge? So many trucks and cars on the bridge, are that going to cause the beams in the bridge to fail? So a human body is governed by the same laws of physics, just like the bridge in a human body. My beams are bones. My cables are the muscles and ligaments.

[Andrea Canning]

Like the expert we heard from last week, this witness walked us through the data he collected and reviewed, and it seemed like he looked at quite a bit. Bit of data. What did he highlight?

[Rachel White]

There was a lot there, Andrea. First, he gave a long list of things that he'd reviewed in the case. The police reports and witness statements, ring camera video from John o' Keeffe's house, other surveillance video from the bars that John and Karen had been to that night. He looked at photos and videos from the scene, Cell phone data, GPS data, weather reports, and the media interviews that Karen did, including her interview with Dateline. He also told jurors that he went to the front lawn. He lives in California, and he traveled to the front lawn in Canton, Massachusetts, where John o' Keeffe's body was found. He took photographs there, and he made measurements, and he came up with a computer model. He even bought the same type of SUV that Karen was driving that night to do some testing.

[Andrea Canning]

Wait, so he actually bought an suv?

[Danny Savalos]

He did.

[Rachel White]

He did.

[Andrea Canning]

Really?

[Rachel White]

He bought an suv? Yes, indeed. You know, all of which is to say, if the prosecution was hoping to show jurors that this guy did his homework, he did everything to persuade them that he deserved an sue.

[Andrea Canning]

Much of his testimony was quite technical. How did the prosecution's expert do? Making sense of it all for the jury?

[Rachel White]

Yeah, he had a huge amount of data to get through and simplify for them. So he began to walk through the timeline he created of what happened that night. He showed a computer model he made using data he collected about how Karen Reed's car moved. He then tested the data with the car he bought that matched Karen's suv, and he tried to explain why John o' Keefe might have had the engine injuries. He had welcher is himself similar height and similar weight to o' Keeffe. So he said that he acted as him in testing. And we could see videos of him actually standing in front of that SUV doing some of the testing, wearing clothes similar to what John o' Keefe was wearing that night, right down to the same make of sneakers. And he covered the taillight in paint, and then he kind of swiveled into it, trying to show where the injuries would be on John o' Keeffe's arm. He had a driver back the car into a crash dummy later to show what might have happened, you know, if the car did hit John o' Keefe. And of course, he dealt separately with the lacerations at the back of John o' Keefe's head because the prosecution said that John o' Keefe fell over into hard ground. He did point out, of course, that it's really hard to exactly model what would have happened when o' Keeffe was hit by the car. Ultimately, the prosecutor asked what all of the testing and reviewing of the data led Welcher to conclude.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Based on all the evidence you considered, could you share with the jury what your opinion is to a reasonable degree of engineering certainty about whether the Defendant's Lexus struck Mr. O' Keefe on January 29, 2022, around 12:32am Going to answer yes, based on the totality of the evidence, DNA. Everything I've seen talked about that is consistent with that happening, with a reasonable degree of scientific certainty, that is what happened.

[Andrea Canning]

Objection.

[Rachel White]

Move to strike.

[Andrea Canning]

So this is no surprise, sue, that Welch believes that Karen Reed hit John o' Keefe with her suv. He is the prosecution's witness, after all.

[Rachel White]

He is. He is the prosecution's closer. So he is the witness that the prosecution wants the jury to remember the most. This is the man who's dealing with the heart of the whole case. Did that Lex hit John o' Keefe? And so that's why, you know, he's so critically important.

[Andrea Canning]

The defense cross examined Dr. Welcher and really hit back against his testimony.

[Rachel White]

So the defense was spirited when he was testifying, and they were just dispirited when it came time for them to do their own cross examination.

[Commercial Voice 1]

It's your position that on every autopsy.

[Reba McEntire]

There should be a X ray of.

[Andrea Canning]

Every bone before a conclusion can be drawn that there's no fracture to a.

[Rachel White]

Bone in the body of a disease.

[Andrea Canning]

Is that your testimony?

[Commercial Voice 1]

Absolutely not. I'm an engineer. You're asking me about proof. And so proof is somebody looked at it. Somebody took an X ray. Somebody found a comminuted fracture. So we're talking about proof. Certainly. I didn't use proof of ask me about the opinion of a medical examiner. I'm not a medical.

[Andrea Canning]

Only one person at a time. Mr. Leslie, let him finish and then you can ask the question.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Your Honor, I hadn't finished my question.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, then finish your question, Dr. Welcher. Wait for the question, then let Dr. Welcher respond. It's a nightmare. The prosecution is expected to rest soon. So looking ahead now to the defense, what do we know about their strategy, what witnesses they're planning to call?

[Rachel White]

Well, Andrea, you know, I am sure they have a few surprises planned. Karen has said they're planning on calling more witnesses this time. And Karen says they also they have a more robust case this time around than they did in the first trial. And ultimately, I think, you know, this case is going to come down to the battle of the accident reconstructionists, you know, experts on both sides who offered their view of what happened that night. And it's going to come down to, of course, what argument the jury finds most compelling.

[Andrea Canning]

Thank you as always, for being there in Dedham for us and bringing us all this critical information in this trial.

[Rachel White]

Thanks, Andrea. Talk soon.

[Andrea Canning]

Up next, it's time for DATELINE roundup. We've got updates on a bizarre case out of New York involving cryptocurrency and allegations of torture. And the latest from the prosecution's case against former major League baseball pitcher Dan Serafini, who's accused of gunning down his in laws at their home in Lake Tahoe. Plus, NBC News legal analyst and defense attorney Danny Savalos gives us his brief on objections in the courtroom.

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[Andrea Canning]

Welcome back. Joining us for this week's roundup is DATELINE digital producer Veronica Mazeka. Hey Veronica.

[Danny Savalos]

Hi, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Let's get started. Our first story takes us to New York City. It involves a defendant who is a big deal in the world of cryptocurrency. Veronica, break it down for us.

[Danny Savalos]

Yeah, so the defendant at the center of this story is 37 year old crypto investor John Waltz. He's accused of kidnapping and torturing an Italian businessman for weeks inside of a Manhattan townhouse. He was actually arrested on Friday and arraigned on charges of kidnapping, unlawful imprisonment, assault, among other charges charges and he has currently entered a plea of not guilty.

[Andrea Canning]

Veronica, this is a wild story. And now police are saying a second man has been charged in connection to the alleged crime.

[Danny Savalos]

That is correct. Officials are saying that William Du Plessis is a business partner of Waltz and he turned himself in alongside his lawyers on Tuesday. He is facing the same charges as Waltz, but there's no plea as of yet.

[Andrea Canning]

What do we know about the alleged victim?

[Danny Savalos]

He's a 28 year old Italian citizen. He was actually another business partner of Waltz and Du Plessis, which is coming from law enforcement. Investigators believe that the three men had a rocky past, but things really took a turn for the worse when the victim arrived in New York City earlier this month.

[Andrea Canning]

And according to the police, this was all over cryptocurrency.

[Danny Savalos]

Yeah, exactly. So Waltz and Du Plessis allegedly demanded that the victim give them his bitcoin password. And when the victim refused the police said that that's when the torture began.

[Andrea Canning]

This man managed to escape.

[Danny Savalos]

Yeah, against all odds. According to law enforcement, the victim told Waltz that he would finally give up his bitcoin password. And then when Waltz went to go get the victim's laptop, he saw an opportunity to flee and flagged down a nearby officer for help.

[Andrea Canning]

Up next, we are checking in on the trial of former major league baseball pitcher Dan Serafini at the historic Auburn Courthouse in Placer County, California. Rem Last week we first talked about this case. Serafini is accused of the murder of his father in law, Gary Spoor, and the attempted murder of his mother in law, Wendy. This happened back in 2021. Sarah Feeney has pleaded not guilty. What is the latest going on in court, Veronica?

[Danny Savalos]

So we're still in the prosecution phase of the trial at this point. The jury is pretty familiar with the details of the crime. They've seen photos of the crime scene and surveillance video of the masked man prosecutors say is Sarafini, walking down the driveway towards the.

[Andrea Canning]

All right, so the prosecutor called people who know Seraphini to the stand to weigh in on the video. To weigh in on the man in the video in the mask.

[Danny Savalos]

Yeah. So a friend of the family actually testified that they believed that the man in the video walked just like Sarafini. But Seraphini's older brother said that the person in the video was not similar to his brother.

[Andrea Canning]

So the prosecutor also asked witnesses whether they'd heard Seraphini threaten his in laws.

[Danny Savalos]

Yeah, so Seraphini's older brother said that they had joked several times about killing his in laws, but he insisted it was just a joke. Seraphini's old boss had a disturbing story to share. He testified that he had overheard Seraphini arguing on the phone with somebody, and when the call ended, he said Seraphini threw his phone at the dashboard and said, quote, I want to kill my mother effing in laws. And this was about three months before the shooting. And a young bartender who once worked at Sarafini's bar told the prosecutor that she was scared to testify as she looked at him sitting at the defendant's table.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, that's a lot. That's some damning testimony for Serafini. Any news on Samantha Scott? So she is the woman that prosecutors say Sarafeni was having an affair with. And they say that she drove him to and from the crime scene. What is happening with her?

[Danny Savalos]

So she's the big witness that everyone is waiting to hear from right now. Court is in recess until next week. So we'll be keeping an eye out for when she takes the stand.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, for our final story, we are heading to New Mexico, where Hollywood armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reid was released from prison Friday morning. Veronica, remind us what happened in that case involving, of course, Alec Baldwin.

[Danny Savalos]

Yes. So, Hannah Gutierrez Reid was convicted of involuntary manslaughter in the fatal shooting on the set movie Rust. She was the one responsible for firearms used on set. And what happened was, actor Alec Baldwin was holding a prop revolver, but it ended up firing a live round, killing cinematographer Helena Hutchins in 2021.

[Andrea Canning]

So after Gutierrez Reed was convicted in March of last year, she was sentenced to the maximum penalty of 18 months. She didn't quite finish the 18 months.

[Danny Savalos]

No, she did not serve her full sentence. Spokesperson for the New Mexico corrections department said Gutierrez Reed was only required to serve 85% of her sentence because she wasn't convicted of a, quote, serious, violent offense per New Mexico law. That, and she had credits for things like time served and good behavior.

[Andrea Canning]

Do we know what is next for her, legally speaking?

[Danny Savalos]

She was released in Arizona with dual supervision under probation and parole authorities. According to the New Mexico corrections department, she will be on parole in the manslaughter case for a year.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, thank you, Veronica, for all these updates.

[Danny Savalos]

Of course. Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

Anyone who has been tuning into the Karen Reed retrial over the past few weeks will have seen court stopped in its tracks by something we've all heard many times. Objection.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Objection. Sustained.

[Andrea Canning]

You can ask it differently.

[Dateline Producer]

Objection.

[Andrea Canning]

I'm going to see you at sidebar on this, please. Are you aware of.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Objection. Sustained.

[Andrea Canning]

And just a few weeks before that, who could forget the storm of objections at the Lori Valo Daybell trial? It was a very calm scene that day.

[Rachel White]

Objection. Asked and answered.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Sustained.

[Andrea Canning]

Is it possible he could have been in shock?

[Rachel White]

Objection. Speculation.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Sustained.

[Andrea Canning]

Did Alex tell you that he got hit in the head with the bat?

[Rachel White]

Objection, your honor. Hearsay. Prior ruling.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Yeah, it's sustained.

[Andrea Canning]

It's undeniable that watching attorneys go toe to toe over evidence and testimony can turn a trial into something akin to a theatrical performance. But according to my next guest, NBC news legal analyst Danny Savalos, objections are a serious and vital part of the trial process. Welcome back, Danny.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

So let's start at square one. What exactly is an objection? Why do we need them?

[Commercial Voice 2]

They are the opposing attorney's way to try and argue against the admissibility of a question or an answer or evidence in general in real time. And if you don't get that objection in fast enough before the answer comes, the judge may not allow you to even make that objection. And if you don't make that objection on the record, you may not be able to raise it on appeal.

[Andrea Canning]

We all watch these courtroom dramas on television, so we hear the different kinds of objections that will be yelled out in a courtroom. Take us through some of them, just the names of them.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Well, a lot of times there are objections, really, to forms of questions it could be leading. You hear that a lot. You have hearsay. You have relevance, which is always, always an objection. Even if the evidence is relevant, it might be really prejudicial, and that prejudice outweighs the relevance. You'll hear that objection a lot.

[Andrea Canning]

So there are rules about how and when you can make an objection?

[Commercial Voice 2]

Yes. The way it works is you say objection, and depending on the judge's practice, ordinarily you will state the basis for your objection. But some judges don't want you to do that because they don't want you to sort of argue in front of the jury. But the attorney who objects always be ready with the rule of evidence on which the objection is based.

[Andrea Canning]

And after an objection, a judge almost always follows it up with the phrase either sustained or overruled.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Right. So sustained means you won. You won your objection. You were right. If it's overruled, it means your objection is no good and the questioning can continue.

[Andrea Canning]

And also, I just have a question about jurors. You know, when. When the judge tells them to disregard, you know, after an objection of if it's accepted, you know, by the judge, it's like the genie's out of the bottle. They already heard it. That's very detrimental to the person on trial.

[Commercial Voice 2]

So there are a couple fixes for this. You ask for a jury instruction, and the judge may even admonish the jury, hey, that was inappropriate. Disregard it. But attorneys take calculated risks like this all the time. They will ask a question if they really think they need to get a message across, because they know once the jurors hear it, you really can't unring that bell. So sometimes attorneys even ask questions that are close to the line, knowing they'll be objected to, knowing they'll be sustained. But the point is, they got it out in front of the jury.

[Andrea Canning]

Do you feel like sometimes objections can be almost part of courtroom theater by certain attorneys?

[Commercial Voice 2]

Absolutely. Yeah, Absolutely. I mean, there's a strategy in objecting. And by the way, sometimes questions can be objectionable, but you make a choice to let them go. You have to Pick and choose your battles because number one, if you make a lot of them and you start losing, then you don't look good to the jury. But even if you make a lot of them and you win and it looks like you're trying to hide something, the jury is aware of that, too.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. And sometimes you can hear in the voice of the attorney, I object. It's getting more and more frustrated, stronger if the attorney feels they need to keep objecting to things because maybe the other side is not playing by the rules.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Yeah, sometimes you won't object because you like the direction that the other side is going and you want them to get all that in and you want the jury to see this witness for who they are. And by the way, you're likely gonna be able to cross examine or redirect at some point. You're gonna have your chance to get up there and ask questions. So you use your objections wisely because like you said, it's all theater.

[Andrea Canning]

All right, well, now I feel like I need to go watch you in court, Danny.

[Commercial Voice 2]

You'd be underwhelmed.

[Andrea Canning]

I need to see how you do these objections. We appreciate your time so much.

[Commercial Voice 2]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. To get ad free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to Date Dateline premium. And coming up this Friday on Dateline, we've got a classic episode from Josh Mankiewicz. In October of 2020, 49 year old Jamie Faith was shot and killed in broad daylight while on a walk with his wife in their Dallas neighborhood. An investigation revealed a perfect marriage gone awry. Here she is living a double life.

[Commercial Voice 1]

But it was really a triple or quadruple life.

[Reba McEntire]

Wasn't that it was.

[Andrea Canning]

Watch Josh's episode Losing Faith this Friday on NBC at 9, 8 Central. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Franny Kelly and Katie Ferguson. Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown. Kurloff production and fact checking help by Kim Flores Gaynor. Veronica Mazeca is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Kula, senior executive producer of Dateline.

[Commercial Voice 1]

Have a good day, everybody.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, bye. Hey there everyone in podcast land. I just wanted to thank you all for listening and telling your friends about our little podcast podcast. Let's talk off camera with me, Kelly Ripa. I know there are millions of podcasts out there, so I really appreciate you giving us a listen.

[Rachel White]

There are so many gems from season.

[Andrea Canning]

One from Matthew McConaughey disclosing that he and Woody Harrelson might be brothers to.

[Rachel White]

Salma Hayek telling us about the argument that started her friendship with Prince.

[Andrea Canning]

Hope you enjoy season one and stay tuned for a bigger and better season two.