The Michael Proctor files. Parents of murdered daughter want answers. And behind the scenes with a CSI.

Summary

Dateline: True Crime Weekly – Episode Summary

Episode Title: The Michael Proctor Files. Parents of Murdered Daughter Want Answers. And Behind the Scenes with a CSI
Release Date: August 7, 2025
Host: Andrea Canning, NBC News

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Introduction

In this gripping episode of Dateline: True Crime Weekly, host Andrea Canning delves deep into two heart-wrenching criminal cases and provides an exclusive look behind the scenes with a crime scene investigator (CSI). The episode intertwines poignant family pleas for justice with the meticulous processes that underpin criminal investigations.

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Main Cases Discussed

1. The Brian Walsh and Anna Walsh Murder Case (00:00 – 07:08)

Overview: Andrea Canning introduces the harrowing case of Anna Walsh, a 39-year-old mother of three who disappeared on January 1, 2023. Her husband, Brian Walsh, was subsequently charged with her murder despite her body never being found.

Key Details:

• Anna Walsh's Background: An immigrant from Serbia who rose from cleaning hotel rooms to becoming a successful real estate executive in Washington, D.C. Her husband, Brian, was a stay-at-home dad under house arrest for selling counterfeit Andy Warhol paintings.

• Disappearance: Anna was reported missing two and a half weeks after failing to appear for work. Brian claimed she took a rideshare to Logan Airport, but investigations revealed no such record from Uber, Lyft, or JetBlue (04:13).

• Evidence Against Brian:

  • Google searches related to disposing of a dead body found on their young son's iPad (05:20).
  • Discovery of gloves, a hacksaw, a piece of Anna's necklace, and her COVID-19 vaccine card stained with blood in trash bags (06:06).

Prosecution's Motive Theories:

• Affair: Anna might have been involved in an extramarital affair.
• Financial Gain: Brian stood to benefit from a $2.7 million life insurance policy and restitution payments from his art fraud case (06:15).

Defense's Counterarguments:

• Lack of Evidence for Affair: Brian’s defense denies awareness of any affair, despite a private investigator being hired by his mother to check on Anna’s fidelity (07:13).
• Conflict of Interest Claim: The defense questions the integrity of lead investigator Michael Proctor, who was previously fired for misconduct in another case (07:42).

Notable Quotes:

• Andrea Canning: "She's dead because she did the right thing. So because she did that, I no longer have my baby." (06:45)

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2. The Mercedes Vega Kidnapping and Murder Case (13:05 – 19:07)

Overview: The episode transitions to the tragic story of Mercedes Vega, a 22-year-old woman who was kidnapped and murdered in Tempe, Arizona. Her parents have been relentlessly seeking justice and answers for over two years.

Key Details:

• Incident: On April 16, 2023, Mercedes entered her apartment’s parking garage at 9:17 PM to go to work but was never seen again. Her body was later found in a burning car over 50 miles away, showing signs of brutal violence (13:05).

• Investigation Delays: Initial investigations provided minimal information, fueling frustration and fear among Mercedes' family and friends (14:08).

• Suspects:

  • Cujo Young: Identified after a previous armed robbery incident involving Mercedes. He remains charged with attempted armed robbery and connected to the murder through fingerprints (15:02).
  • Jared Gray and Sincere Hayes: Co-defendants linked to the case via geographic ties to Chattanooga, Tennessee, and shared fingerprints in evidence (16:43).

Parents' Plea for Justice: Mercedes’ parents, Erica and Tom Pillsbury, believe that the delays in the robberies' legal proceedings contributed to their daughter’s death. They argue that Mercedes might still be alive if she had testified and received adequate protection (17:53).

Notable Quotes:

• Tom Yamas: "She's dead because she did the right thing." (06:45)
• Erica, Mercedes’ mother: "Somebody knows something. Somebody tell me why she's not here." (13:32)

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Roundup of Additional True Crime Stories

1. Karen Reed Case (20:38 – 22:19)

Overview: Karen Reed, previously acquitted of murdering her boyfriend, Boston Police Officer John O'Keefe, continues to make headlines. Developments include her defense team seeking the return of personal items and pursuing a wrongful death civil lawsuit filed by O'Keefe’s family.

Key Updates:

• Criminal Case: Reed's defense is fighting to reclaim her SUV and cell phone from police custody (20:38).

• Civil Suit: A wrongful death lawsuit against Reed and two bars alleging over-serving her on the night of the incident has been met with motions to dismiss (21:22).

• Documentation Efforts: Reed’s attorneys are seeking access to state police and DA office records, particularly those related to Michael Proctor, raising questions about potential investigative biases (21:57).

Notable Quote:

• Tom Yamas: "The band is not just staying together, getting back together, but we're intending on writing a few new chapters." (22:19)

2. Brooks Hauck and Crystal Rogers Case (22:42 – 23:22)

Overview: Brooks Hauck, convicted of murdering Crystal Rogers, has made emotional jailhouse calls expressing shock and denial over his life sentence.

Key Details:

• Emotional Impact: Hauck’s calls reveal his despair and fear of spending his life in prison (22:58).

• Sentence Pending: Hauck is scheduled for sentencing on August 21st, 2025 (23:22).

Notable Quotes:

• Brooks Hauck: "You've got a lot of life left to live, okay? We're not done yet." (22:58)
• Brooks Hauck: "I love you so much, honey. I don't deserve you." (23:01)

3. Sean Combs Case (23:53 – 25:17)

Overview: Sean Combs, recently convicted on two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution, awaits sentencing after unsuccessful attempts by his defense team to secure his release on bail.

Key Details:

• Bail Attempts: Multiple motions for bail have been denied, including a recent $50 million bond proposal (23:53).

• Character Witness: Combs' defense submitted a letter from his ex-girlfriend, previously identified as Victim 3 in his indictment, praising his efforts to improve himself and emphasizing his non-threatening nature towards his children (24:34).

• Potential Pardon: Sources indicate that Combs' defense has petitioned President Trump for a pardon (24:57).

Notable Quotes:

• Andrea Canning: "And there's another update. It's kind of a big one. A source close to the defense told NBC that they have now reached out to President Trump asking for a pardon." (24:53)

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Behind the Scenes: Insights from a CSI (25:52 – 29:45)

Guest: Barry A.J. Fisher, former LA County Sheriff Crime Lab Director

Discussion Points:

• Crime Scene Priorities: The paramount importance of preserving the integrity of a crime scene to avoid contamination or loss of critical evidence (26:02).

• Evidence Handling: Detailed procedures for photographing, collecting fingerprints, and safeguarding evidence to maintain a clear chain of custody (27:10).

• Technology in Investigations: Utilization of advanced scanning and photography techniques to recreate crime scenes from multiple perspectives, enhancing the understanding of events (27:54).

• Legal Challenges: Defense attorneys often scrutinize the competency of crime scene investigators, attempting to sow doubt about the evidence collection process. However, the role of forensic scientists is to demonstrate the meticulousness and reliability of their methods (29:03).

Notable Quotes:

• Barry Fisher: "You have one chance to get it right." (29:34)
• Andrea Canning: "It's time for another DATELINE story meeting. Anything new from Friday?" (01:03)

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Conclusion

This episode of Dateline: True Crime Weekly masterfully intertwines intense real-life criminal cases with expert insights, offering listeners a comprehensive and emotionally charged exploration of justice, investigative processes, and the relentless pursuit of answers by affected families. Notable moments include the heartrending pleas of parents seeking justice for their lost children and the meticulous breakdown of crime scene investigation techniques that are pivotal in solving these complex cases.

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Notable Quotes Recap:

• Andrea Canning: "She's dead because she did the right thing. So because she did that, I no longer have my baby." (06:45)
• Brooks Hauck: "You're not done yet." (22:58)
• Barry Fisher: "You have one chance to get it right." (29:34)

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For more in-depth coverage and updates on these cases, subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening or visit DatelinePremium.com.

Transcript

[Andrea Canning]

DATELINE is hitting the road for a.

[Blaine Alexander]

First of its kind event and you're invited. Join the entire DATELINE team in Nashville.

[Andrea Canning]

Tennessee, for DATELINE Live. Hear from Lester, Blaine, Andrea, Josh, Keith and Dennis.

[Blaine Alexander]

Plus, live demonstrations, a VIP reception and more.

[Andrea Canning]

The true crime original like you've never seen before. Buy tickets to DATELINE live [e-mail] event. It would be a crime to miss it. I'm Blaine Alexander with a Dateline 24.7marathon. We are in the heat of summer, and as the temperatures rise, these steamy affairs are about to reach their boiling point. I was thinking about me and only me.

[Matt Fortin]

She was maybe a little bit too.

[Andrea Canning]

Much for him to handle. I know where he was that night.

[Matt Fortin]

It really just blew my mind.

[Andrea Canning]

The whole neighborhood was shocked. What are we supposed to do now? Our heated affairs marathon Saturday through Tuesday on Dateline 24. 7.

[Tom Yamas]

Hey, good morning.

[Yasmin Vossoughian]

Welcome back.

[Andrea Canning]

It's time for another DATELINE story meeting. Anything new from Friday? Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news.

[Blaine Alexander]

We have detectives, we have prosecutors, we have a doctor.

[Andrea Canning]

What's some of it we don't know. Welcome to DATELINE True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's August 7th, and here's what's on our docket. In an Arizona courtroom, two men faced charges of murdering a woman who was about to testify in a robbery case. And her parents have tough questions for law enforcement. She's dead because she did the right thing. So because she did that, I no longer have my baby. Here in DATELINE Roundup, we've got updates for you about Sean Combs and Karen Reed and excerpts from recently released jailhouse calls made by the man convicted of murdering Kentucky mom Crystal Rogers.

[Matt Fortin]

You've got a lot of life left to live, babe.

[Tom Yamas]

We're not done yet.

[Matt Fortin]

I love you so much, honey. I don't deserve you.

[Andrea Canning]

Plus, we'll be talking to an expert on crime scenes. He'll tell us how investigators can make or break a case within minutes of arriving at the scene.

[Yasmin Vossoughian]

You have one chance to get it right.

[Andrea Canning]

But before all that, we're heading to a place we've talked about a lot on the podcast this year, Norfolk Superior Court in Massachusetts. It's the same courthouse where Karen Reed stood trial this summer. Now another big murder case is gearing up for trial. The last time anybody heard from Anna Walsh, a 39 year old mother of three, was on New Year's Day 2023. Her husband told investigators she had a work emergency and had to catch a flight early on January 1st. But there is no evidence she ever made it to the airport. And when she didn't show up for work, her employer reported her missing. Two and a half weeks later, her husband Brian was charged with her murder. He's pleaded not guilty and her body has never been found. Last week, between court filings, the judge's rulings, and a pretrial hearing, we got a preview of the prosecution's case against Brian Walsh. We also got some surprises. NBC Boston's Matt Fortin, a digital reporter and host of the podcast the Searches for Anna Walsh, joins us now with the latest. Hey, Matt, thank you for coming on the podcast.

[Blaine Alexander]

Thanks for having me, Andrea. I appreciate it.

[Andrea Canning]

Let's start by telling us about Anna Walsh. Who was she and what does the prosecution allege happened to her?

[Blaine Alexander]

Anna Walsh was an immigrant from Serbia. She moved to America when she was a young woman and she started by cleaning hotel rooms. And by the end of her life, she was a pretty high powered real estate executive working in Washington, D.C. and she was the mom of three young boys. Her husband, Brian, he was mostly a stay at home dad, partly because he was on house arrest actually at the time for a separate federal case.

[Andrea Canning]

What was Brian charged with?

[Blaine Alexander]

He was accused of selling bogus Andy Warhol paintings. He was convicted of those charges. And at the time that Ana went missing, he was waiting to be sentenced.

[Andrea Canning]

So what then happens to Ana? She just goes out of contact. Right. No one can find her?

[Blaine Alexander]

Yes. Brian has claimed that the last time he saw Ana was New Year's Day 2023, that she took a rideshare, either Uber or Lyft, to Logan Airport in Boston and she was flying to Washington, D.C. that morning.

[Andrea Canning]

This is not adding up. Right. For investigators.

[Blaine Alexander]

Correct. They called Lyft and Uber and there was no evidence of a rideshare going to that house that morning. No one at JetBlue could say she was on an airplane that morning. They asked Brian if they could look through his cell phone and look through some other devices in the house. So going through those phones, those iPads, there was an iPad that was mainly used by one of their very young sons that investigators said that they found a number of Google searches that were entered on the morning of New Year's Day that all had to do with what to do with a dead body. Quote, how long before a body starts to smell? Quote, dismemberment and the best ways to dispose of a body.

[Andrea Canning]

And this is on the child's iPad.

[Blaine Alexander]

On the child's iPad, they say yes.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. So he ends up getting Charged with murder.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yes, Brian Walsh does get charged with murder. And as he's going into court, every time, it seems like there is more and more potentially damning evidence that prosecutors are rolling out. They discuss at that murder arraignment a search of 10 trash bags that were thrown away in Swampscott. That's a town north of Boston where his mom lives. And they ended up going through these trash bags and they find gloves, a hacksaw, a piece of a necklace that Ana had been pictured wearing, and a COVID 19 vaccine card that had Anna Walsh's name on it. And many of these were stained in blood.

[Andrea Canning]

Matt, what do they, what do prosecutors think was Brian's motive if he did this, if he killed his wife?

[Blaine Alexander]

So there's been a few theories that prosecutors have floated, and I think it's going to be interesting to watch which one they really go with when this trial happens. For one, she was having some sort of affair, it seems, with somebody in Washington, D.C. there's also the issue of prosecutors said, look, he was the beneficiary of a life insurance policy and he had half a million dollars to pay in restitution.

[Andrea Canning]

From the artwork.

[Blaine Alexander]

From the artwork case. Correct.

[Andrea Canning]

And we're talking about a lot of money. 2.7 million for her life insurance policy.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah. And then keep in mind that when she goes missing, when she was allegedly killed by Brian, he had not been sentenced in the Ark fraud scheme yet. So prosecutors said he could have been thinking, if she's out of the picture and I'm a single parent, the judge may be more lenient to let me remain on house arrest and avoid prison time.

[Andrea Canning]

What is the defense saying about these allegations? How have they so far defended Brian Walsh?

[Blaine Alexander]

Brian Walsh's team says he didn't know about any sort of affair going on, even though Brian Walsh's mother hired a private investigator in December of 2022 to follow Ana to try to confirm infidelity. They also say he was already paying his restitution, so there'd be no reason to try to go after a life insurance policy that would not be necessary. And they're saying that this whole theory about trying to avoid jail time, that's just kind of a hypothetical.

[Andrea Canning]

And the defense is also making a lot of noise about the original lead investigator on Brian Walsh's case, former Massachusetts state trooper Michael Proctor, who was also the lead investigator on the Karen Reed case. He was fired a few months ago for his behavior during that investigation. I interviewed him for our DATELINE episode. Matt, how is the defense tying Proctor's work on Karen's case to this one.

[Blaine Alexander]

So their case is, how do we know that he also did not have misconduct in the Brian Walsh investigation? Because he has demonstrated that he has biases toward murder suspects. Could he have had also a bias toward Brian Walsh?

[Andrea Canning]

And they, they've, you know, been trying to get access to the contents of Proctor's cell phone from the time around the investigation.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yeah. So there are a number of defendants in Norfolk county that are trying to get what have become known as the Proctor files. They were initially obtained through a federal investigation into the Karen Reed investigation. That is over. So they were supposed to be destroyed 30 days after Karen Reed's retrial ended and there had to be an emergency stop put on that by these other defendants, basically saying, hold on, these can't be destroyed yet because we need to try to get these. But regardless of Michael Proctor and if specifics from his device are obtained, I think it's more likely that you're going to have a jury of just random people in Massachusetts who are familiar with Karen Reed and who are a lot more skeptical of police in Massachusetts, especially from this county.

[Andrea Canning]

Matt, let's talk about the developments over the last couple of weeks. The judge ruled on some motions.

[Blaine Alexander]

The Walsh defense team, they were really trying to, for obvious reasons, get these Google searches thrown out under the argument that he did not consent to that wide of a scope of a search through his devices. The judge did not agree with the defense's argument. There was also some new filings from the prosecutors as they're working to get out of state witnesses called to Massachusetts. They want to talk to that private investigator that they say Brian's mom hired. They want to fly him in from Washington, D.C. to testify at this trial. They also want to hear from Ana's best friend in D.C. who they say will testify to the fact that Ana was very, very upset and talking about a strained marriage weeks before she was allegedly killed by her husband.

[Andrea Canning]

The judge had something pretty important to say on Friday.

[Blaine Alexander]

Yes. She disclosed on Friday during a very short hearing, a potential appearance of a conflict, that an attorney working with the prosecutors is a mentor and a friend of hers.

[Andrea Canning]

The judge didn't recuse herself, but gave the defense time to think about how they want to handle that information. And the trial is still scheduled for October, right?

[Blaine Alexander]

Yes, October 20th.

[Andrea Canning]

Matt, thank you so much.

[Blaine Alexander]

Thank you, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

And if you want to hear more about this case, listen to Matt's podcast series with NBC Boston called the Searches for Anna Walsh. Coming up after a 22 year old woman was kidnapped from her apartment complex and murdered. Her friends wondered if next taking over the helm of NBC nightly news, a 75 year old broadcast. It's a great responsibility.

[Blaine Alexander]

Good evening, I'm Tom Yamas.

[Andrea Canning]

You have to go out there to bring people at home closer to the store.

[Blaine Alexander]

Wildfires continue to be a threat.

[Andrea Canning]

With that massive hurricane comes the massive response.

[Blaine Alexander]

The best reporters in our business know how to listen.

[Andrea Canning]

And when you listen, you get the truth for NBC News.

[Blaine Alexander]

For NBC News, NBC News, I'm Tom Galmis.

[Andrea Canning]

That's what we do every night.

[Blaine Alexander]

NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas. Evenings on NBC. I'm Josh Mankiewicz and I hope you'll.

[Andrea Canning]

Join us for season four of Dateline.

[Blaine Alexander]

Missing in America.

[Andrea Canning]

In each episode of Dateline's award winning series, we will focus on one missing persons case and hear from the families, the friends and the investigators all desperate to find them.

[Yasmin Vossoughian]

You will want to listen closely.

[Andrea Canning]

Maybe you could help investigators solve a mystery. DATELINE Missing in America all episodes available now. Wherever you get your podcasts. As the day wraps up, get the scoop on what's been happening with here's the Scoop, the new podcast from NBC News. With me your host Yasmin Vesugian along with Morgan Chesky and Brian Chung. We'll take a deep dive into the day's top stories with NBC News trusted journalists. It's a fresh take that's sharp, thoughtful and it's informative, bringing you closer to the headlines and conversations that are shaping our world. From the front page to the zeitgeist, all in 15 minutes or less. Here's the scoop from NBC News. Listen daily on Apple Podcasts. On the night of April 16, 2023, Mercedes Vega walked into the parking garage of her apartment complex in Tempe, Arizona. The 22 year old was on her way to work. She performed at a strip club called Le Girls. But her dream was to become a personal trainer. She was saving up money for that. Security cameras captured her entering the garage at 9:17pm But Mercedes never made it to the club.

[Tom Yamas]

CPS 911, where's your emergency?

[Yasmin Vossoughian]

I just want to report a car, it's on fire.

[Andrea Canning]

The next morning, Mercedes body was recovered from a burning car more than 50 miles from her home. Within hours, sheriff's deputies knocked on her parents door with the news. But after that, for years, they say they were left with more questions than answers. Here's her mother. Somebody knows something. Somebody tell me why she's not here.

[Tom Yamas]

Tell me.

[Andrea Canning]

That all changed last week when after more than two years of fighting for justice for their daughter. Mercedes parents Erica and Tom Pillsbury sat in a courtroom facing her accused killers. Here to tell us more is NBC News digital breaking news reporter Tim Stello. Tim, thanks for coming on the podcast.

[Matt Fortin]

Of course.

[Andrea Canning]

So let's rewind to the early days of the investigation. What did Mercedes parents Erica and Tom know?

[Matt Fortin]

So the Maricopa County Sheriff's office told them that they'd found Mercedes body in the backseat of a Chevy Malibu. She had been beaten, shot and burned. But that was about all they knew.

[Andrea Canning]

That is so awful, Tim. A year went by with no arrests. DATELINE spoke to Mercedes parents on the one year anniversary of her murder when. What did they have to say then?

[Matt Fortin]

They were understandably frustrated by the lack of answers. Mercedes friends and coworkers at the strip club had started coming to Erica with their own fears that they could be next. So Mercedes parents went on social media to share their daughter's story.

[Andrea Canning]

I need the people of the Phoenix area to be aware that my child's killers are still at large.

[Matt Fortin]

They even took their pleas to the front doors of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office. Erica and Tom led a march.

[Andrea Canning]

What do we want for Mercedes justice? What do we want for Mercedes justice? And they told you something astounding. They thought they knew who had killed their daughter.

[Matt Fortin]

That's right. A few years before Mercedes murder, in October 2020, she was parking outside her apartment building after work when a masked man ran toward her, drew a gun and demanded her belongings. That's according to a Phoenix Police Department incident report. Mercedes reported the incident to police and ended up identifying a man named Cujo Young in a police lineup. He was charged with armed robbery and he pleaded not guilty and was released on bond. By April 2023, the robbery case against Young was still ongoing and Mercedes was supposed to testify about it at a court hearing scheduled for the exact day that she was found dead.

[Andrea Canning]

And there's more. Mercedes co workers told you that they were also attacked by someone that looked like Cujo Young.

[Matt Fortin]

That's right. Mercedes wasn't the only dancer at LA girls who said they'd been targeted by a masked gunman after a shift. In the months before and after Mercedes robbery, two other women shared very similar experiences. Young was charged with attempted armed robbery in one case. That case is ongoing. No charges were brought in a third case. And when Kujo Young was arrested, he denied knowing anything about this, but acknowledged going to the club the girls often.

[Andrea Canning]

Tim Mercedes parents told investigators their suspicions about Young right away. But it took prosecutors more than two years to charge him with her murder. And we should say he wasn't the only person charged in the case. Two other men, Jared Gray and Sincere Hayes, were charged, too.

[Matt Fortin]

That's right. Authorities have provided few details about the connection between the three men, though a probable cause statement identified a geographic link. Chattanooga, Tennessee. Young is from there. And Hayes and Gray traveled to Phoenix from there around the time of Mercedes murder. Authorities have suggested that Young may have bought his co defendants plane tickets from Tennessee to Arizona. And fingerprints found in Mercedes car and in the Chevy Malibu were linked to both men.

[Andrea Canning]

Mercedes parents were in court last Friday to watch Cujo Young and one of his co defendants being arraigned. This is number 16 on the calendar, state of Arizona versus Young.

[Matt Fortin]

Yeah. He did not speak other than to answer a few brief questions from the judge.

[Andrea Canning]

Can I get your name and date of birth, please?

[Matt Fortin]

Koon Young, March 5, 1996.

[Andrea Canning]

Koojo Young has pleaded not guilty. What about the other two men, Tim?

[Matt Fortin]

Cynthia Hayes pleaded not guilty. Jared Gray. He has not yet been arraigned.

[Andrea Canning]

Mercedes parents have used their daughter's story to start a discussion about protecting victims who speak out against their attackers.

[Matt Fortin]

Mercedes parents say that she might still be alive if her robbery case hadn't been continuously delayed and if Mercedes had added protection as she waited to testify.

[Andrea Canning]

She's dead because she did the right thing. Because she decided that she was gonna stand up for herself when so many other people were afraid to do so. So because she did that, I no longer have my baby here. And we should say this is just the parents theory right now. Prosecutors haven't outlined any alleged motive in the case yet and haven't made any comment on Erica's allegations that Mercedes didn't receive enough protection. Tim, this is such a sad story, but Erica did tell us one thing that's brought her comfort since she started speaking out about her daughter's death. Let's take a listen. Young women walk up to me and say, are you Mercedes mom? Because of what we've learned about her, we constantly check in on each other. We never go anywhere without another person. And the trial is set for 2026.

[Matt Fortin]

That's right.

[Andrea Canning]

Tim, thank you so much for bringing us up to speed on this.

[Matt Fortin]

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

If you want to read more of Tim's reporting on the case, head to nbcnews.com up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup. Sean Combs and Karen Reid are back in the news and caught on tape. Hear what Cryst Rogers killer, her former boyfriend Brooks Hauck has to say about his life behind bars. Plus, ever wondered what it's like to show up to the scene of a crime and be the person in charge of collecting all that critical evidence? We've got a conversation with a crime scene expert.

[Matt Fortin]

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[Yasmin Vossoughian]

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[Matt Fortin]

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[Andrea Canning]

Welcome back. Joining us now for this week's roundup is DATELINE producer so Sue Simpson. Sue, welcome back to the podcast.

[Tom Yamas]

Hey, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

All right. So for our first story, we're heading to a place you know very well, Sue Canton, M.A. earlier in the show, we were talking about Karen Reed in connection to the Brian Walsh case, but Karen is still making headlines herself. What's the latest news?

[Tom Yamas]

Sue that's right, Andrea. As listeners may remember, Karen Reed was acquitted in June of killing John o'. Keefe. He, of course, was her Boston police officer boyfriend, and she was accused of backing into him with her SUV after a night of drinking. She was found guilty of operating a vehicle under the influence. So we have a few developments here. The first is that Karen is trying to get her Alexis SUV and her cell phone back. Those were both taken from her very early on as part of the investigation. Last week, her defense attorneys filed a motion arguing that they should be released from state police custody.

[Andrea Canning]

So that is in relation to the criminal trial. But let's not forget, there is still a civil suit pending against Karen Reed. What's going on with that?

[Tom Yamas]

A year ago, John o' Keefe's family filed a wrongful death suit against Karen and the two bars they accused of over serving her that night. Both bars have denied the claims made in the lawsuit and Karen's attorneys have filed a motion to dismiss it. No surprise there. This week we discovered that Karen's team wants documents from the criminal case. Her attorney sent subpoenas to the Massachusetts State Police and to the Norfolk County DA's office. And they want all the records about witnesses who testified as well as records about the lead investigator, former Massachusetts State Trooper Michael Proctor.

[Andrea Canning]

Interesting. And there was one more piece of news about the civil lawsuit.

[Tom Yamas]

Indeed, yes, indeed. One more. Alan Jackson of the criminal proceedings will be joining Karen Reed's defense team for this suit on Tuesday. He said, quote, the band is not just staying together, getting back together, but we're intending on writing a few new chapters.

[Andrea Canning]

Wow. And we know some of that includes some production stuff in the works, like a movie. Yeah. We'll see. For our next story, we have some jailhouse calls to play for you. They were made by Brooks Hauck, the former boyfriend of Crystal Rogers, the Kentucky mom who disappeared a decade ago. Last month, Hauck was found guilty of her murder. Sue, what did he say on these calls?

[Tom Yamas]

So our NBC affiliate WAVE in Louisville got calls that Hauck made after his conviction. And he sounds emotional, Andrea, in these calls. And he talks about being in shock and denial over potentially spending the rest of his life in prison. Hauck spoke with his current girlfriend.

[Matt Fortin]

You've got a lot of life left to live, okay?

[Tom Yamas]

We're not done yet.

[Matt Fortin]

I love you so much, honey. I don't deserve you.

[Tom Yamas]

And he also called his brother Nick.

[Matt Fortin]

You know, the journey that my life has taken has completely turned around today. You understand that after a jury speaks like they did, you know, that's a permanent decision.

[Andrea Canning]

Hauck will be sentenced later this month, on August 21st. For our final story, we've got an update in the case of Sean Combs. And it's been a busy week for his defense team. As listeners may remember, last month Combs was convicted on two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. In his federal trial, he was acquitted on the more serious charges, including sex trafficking and racketeering conspiracy. Now Combs is waiting for his sentencing. So what is the latest, Sue?

[Tom Yamas]

Andrea, the first thing to remember is Combs is being held at the Metropolitan Detention center in Brooklyn, New York. He's been there for almost a year, since last September when he was arrested. Combs defense team has filed multiple unsuccessful motions to get him released on bail. Their latest motion offered up a huge bond of $50 million. But here's what really made news. The defense also filed a letter from an ex girlfriend of Combs, almost, you know, like a character witness. And what's wild is that she's the woman who known as Victim 3 in the federal indictment against Combs. She didn't end up testifying in his federal trial, though.

[Andrea Canning]

What did she say in this letter, Sue?

[Tom Yamas]

So she said that over the course of her relationship, Combs made visible efforts to become a better person and to address the harm he'd caused and that she did not view him as a threat and that his children were dependent on him for emotional and financial support.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, that didn't work. The judge denied the motion on Monday.

[Tom Yamas]

That's right. He said Combs defense team did not prove their client isn't a flight risk.

[Andrea Canning]

And sue, there's another update. It's kind of a big one. A source close to the defense told NBC that they have now reached out to President Trump asking for a pardon.

[Tom Yamas]

That's right, Andrea. It'll be interesting to see what happens next for sure. Combs sentencing is scheduled for October 3rd. And we'll keep you posted.

[Andrea Canning]

Sue, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks, Andrea. Most investigations we talk about here on the podcast begin with the critical work of crime scene texts. Whether it's a fingerprint, a blood stain, or a piece of shattered glass, they're the ones who carefully gather these clues, knowing that each one could be the key to solving a crime. Joining me to discuss how these texts set the stage for the entire Investigation is former LA County Sheriff Crime Lab Director Barry A.J. fisher. Welcome to the podcast, Barry.

[Yasmin Vossoughian]

Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

[Andrea Canning]

Let's walk through what actually happens once a crime scene is identified. What is the. What's your top priority when there's been a crime?

[Yasmin Vossoughian]

Well, the top priority is not to screw it up.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay. Yeah, that's important.

[Yasmin Vossoughian]

Typically, what will happen is that a detective will come out to a crime scene, do a cursory survey, and decide that they need some technical assistance from csis, which means that they would need help photographing the crime scene, collecting fingerprints, collecting evidence, tagging and bagging, if you will.

[Andrea Canning]

Obviously, the yellow tape goes up. You have protective gear, you know, your suits that you have to wear, masks, whatever that may be.

[Yasmin Vossoughian]

Well, you don't want to bring anything to the crime scene that doesn't belong there or remove anything. What we try to do is to tell investigators to be particularly careful. Don't smoke at the scene. Don't bring your coffee cups and leave them behind. Don't pick up a glass off of the countertop to grab a drink because you could inadvertently be wiping away fingerprints or distorting them.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Or confusing the crime scene by, you know, leaving your DNA. Exactly how important are photographs?

[Yasmin Vossoughian]

The crime scene photographs are a way to allow the detective or the CSI to recount, recall what he saw at the crime scene. In addition, it's a way to show what the relationship was of the various items of evidence. The latest technology will scan a scene and put it together in a way that you could look at it from the Victim's perspective from the suspect's perspective, kind of spin around the room and look at it from different angles.

[Andrea Canning]

So how do you start making sense of what the scene is telling you?

[Yasmin Vossoughian]

You look for obvious things. If you go into a kitchen area and food is still warm, that would give you an idea of an approximate time frame that you're dealing with. If there are newspapers or letters around, you can get an idea of the date, perhaps.

[Andrea Canning]

And once you leave the crime scene, obviously there's a lot more work to do.

[Yasmin Vossoughian]

You need to be careful to store the material in an appropriate way, have identifying information on them so they could later be shown through a chain of custody process to come from a particular crime scene. And of course, the notes that you make at the scene are particularly important because sometimes you may not be getting to that evidence. Writer away. And you want to be able to show how all the pieces fit together.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah, I mean, this is anecdotal based on my experience, but I feel like a defense attorney will say in court that the detectives, the crime scene texts, they, you know, botched the crime scene somehow with evidence collection or whatever it may be.

[Yasmin Vossoughian]

Well, that's, that's kind of their job to so doubt on the part of the jury and the, the job of the forensic scientist, the CSI detective, is to explain that they did a competent job. It's pretty easy to just go into a crime scene, do a slapdash kind of job and move on. But taking, taking time, we always tell people, you, you have one chance to get it right.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Barry, this has been a fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Yasmin Vossoughian]

Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure to be with you today.

[Andrea Canning]

That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. To get ad free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium. Coming up this Friday on Dateline, a classic episode that still haunts me. In 1982, a husband said he came home to find his wife murdered with an axe. Over 40 years later, investigators finally zeroed in on her killer. This case really was, was about looking at what doesn't fit. All victims deserve justice, regardless of how much time has passed. Watch my episode, the Bad man, this Friday at 9, 8 Central. And one more thing before we go. Dateline is hitting the road and we want you to join us. On Sunday, September 28, the whole team, Lester, Keith, Blaine, Josh, Dennis and me will be in Nashville for Dateline Live. It's a first of a kind event featuring onstage panels, audience Q&As and a VIP reception. Tickets are on sale now at datelinenbc.com event. You can also find a link in the description of this episode. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Franny Kelly, Katie Ferguson and Brittany Morris. Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown. Korloff production and fact checking help by Georgina DiNardo and Terry Dickerson. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline. See you later.