Verdict at Kouri Richins' trial. Nurse accused of poisoning friend. Plus, AI at the police station.

Summary

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Dateline: True Crime Weekly

Episode: Verdict at Kouri Richins' trial. Nurse accused of poisoning friend. Plus, AI at the police station.
Host: Andrea Canning (NBC News)
Date: March 19, 2026

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Episode Overview

This week, Andrea Canning and the Dateline team deliver updates and analysis on three major stories:

• The dramatic conclusion to the Kouri Richins murder trial in Utah
• The unfolding trial of a nurse accused of poisoning her best friend with insulin
• An exploration of how artificial intelligence is increasingly being used in law enforcement, featuring expert perspectives

The episode features in-depth discussions, expert commentary, courtroom insights, and breaking developments from the world of true crime.

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1. Kouri Richins Trial Verdict

Key Segment

[02:27] – [10:11]

Summary

Andrea Canning reports from Utah following the verdict in the high-profile case of Kouri Richins, a mother of three and author accused of killing her husband Eric by poisoning him with fentanyl. The story became a media sensation after Richins wrote a children’s book about grief following her husband’s death, only to be charged with his murder. The trial was notable for its intense courtroom drama, the prosecution’s detailed forensic presentation, and a highly unusual defense strategy.

Key Discussion Points

• Prosecution’s Argument:

  • Kouri was "intensely ambitious" and appeared to craft a "perfect life" image (04:27).
  • Motive centered on a prenuptial agreement: if she left Eric, she would lose access to most of his wealth (05:03).
  • Alleged that Richins purchased illegal fentanyl to poison Eric, spiked his cocktail (05:39).
  • Played the 911 call in court, highlighting Kouri’s delayed CPR attempt and her “cold” demeanor (06:12).
  • Prosecutor’s memorable line:

    “The first minute is not the sound of a wife becoming a widow. The first minute is the sound of a wife becoming a black widow.”
    — Prosecution, [07:13]

• Defense’s Argument:

  • Painted Richins’ alleged motive and affair with her handyman as mere fantasy, not evidence of a murder plot (07:27).
  • Attacked the credibility of prosecution witness Carmen Lauber, the housekeeper who claims she bought fentanyl for Kouri, alleging inconsistencies and ulterior motives (08:01).
  • Emphasized that people grieve in different ways, challenging attempts to judge Kouri by her behavior during the 911 call.

• Verdict Announcement:

  • After three hours of tense deliberations, Kouri Richins was found guilty of aggravated murder, attempted aggravated murder, fraud, and forgery ([09:06]–[09:16]).
  • Observations from the courtroom:

    “After hearing guilty for the aggravated murder charge, she tipped her head down and you could see her trying to regulate her breathing.”
    — Karen Israel, [09:33]

• Aftermath:

  • Sentencing set for May 13 ([09:41]). Kouri still faces 26 additional felony charges related to alleged financial crimes.
  • Debate over whether prosecutors will pursue further charges in light of the murder conviction.

Notable Quotes

• “Corey Richards is intensely ambitious. She wanted the perfect life, or at least the appearance of the perfect life.” — Prosecutor, [04:27]
• “Eric had to die.” — Prosecution, [05:39]
• "She couldn't remember anything. Not from 2022, not from 2023. She couldn't remember on Friday what she testified to on Thursday." — Defense on Carmen Lauber, [08:37]

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2. Utah Nurse Trial – Alleged Insulin Poisoning

Key Segment

[11:48] – [20:05]

Summary

Dateline turns to Provo, Utah, covering the ongoing trial of nurse Megan Sundwal, accused of murdering her best friend, Casey Terry, via insulin overdose. Initially believed to have died from cancer (an illness she allegedly fabricated), Casey’s autopsy revealed no trace of cancer—only an insulin overdose.

Key Discussion Points

• The Relationship:

  • Megan and Casey became close friends working at a facility for adults with intellectual disabilities; Casey even lived with Megan and her husband for a period ([13:23]).

• Allegations and Investigation:

  • Casey had been telling friends and family she had terminal cancer; texts revealed suicidal ideations sent to Megan ([13:41]).
  • Prosecutors allege Megan encouraged or failed to intervene in Casey’s ideations and ultimately poisoned her with insulin to claim a $1.5 million life insurance payout ([15:41], [16:07]).
  • Defense counters that Casey lied frequently (including about the cancer diagnosis and the insurance policy itself), and suggest she may have taken her own life ([17:12]).
  • Text evidence:

    "Megan told Casey, there is nothing left for you here. And then another one where she told her, the cat, you have to let go. It is past time."
    — [14:15]

• Family Testimony:

  • Casey’s sister Kylie testified she moved Casey out of Megan’s house due to fears Megan was trying to poison her and expressed belief in Megan’s guilt ([14:33]–[15:30]).
  • Contradicting prosecution, Kylie said Casey was not suicidal at the time of her death and would have confided in her ([15:09]).

• Twists in the Case:

  • The purported life insurance policy was a fabrication; Megan was never the beneficiary ([19:12]).
  • The defense asserts there is no financial motive, further muddying the waters regarding a possible murder-for-insurance plot.

Notable Quotes

• “Was Casey just lying about that? Can you believe anything of what she says?” — Andrea Canning, [17:33]
• "The question of who gave Casey that fatal dose of insulin. Was it Casey herself or was it Megan?" — Marissa Meyer, [18:55]

Upcoming Developments

• Prosecution continues to call witnesses; case remains unresolved pending further testimony ([19:38]).

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3. Dateline Roundup: National Crime Stories

Key Segment

[22:20] – [28:13]

A. Samantha Scott Sentencing – Dan Serafini Case

[22:20]–[25:19]

• Samantha Scott, former lover of ex-MLB pitcher Dan Serafini (convicted of murdering his in-laws), was sentenced to two years probation for accessory after the fact ([24:50]).
• Emotional testimony from the victims’ family:

  “My mom’s blood is on Samantha Scott’s hands.” — Adrienne (victim’s daughter), [22:47]

• Courtroom admission:

  “My heart goes out to the victims and their family. I cannot undo what happened, but I truly wish that I had acted differently when I had the chance.” — Samantha Scott, [25:00]

B. Illinois – Karen Hearn Slover: DNA Developments

[25:19]–[28:09]

• New DNA evidence brought hope to Michael Slover Jr., who (with his parents) was convicted in the 1996 murder of his ex-wife Karen Hearn Slover.
• Recent analysis reveals DNA profiles on evidence that do not match the Slovers.
• Slover’s attorney:

  “It’s been a really long wait for him, and he’s, I think, eager to eventually have his day in court. It’s progress, and he’s happy about that.” — Carl Leonard, [28:02]

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4. Special: AI at the Police Station

Key Segment

[28:18] – [34:07]

Summary

Andrea Canning speaks with Professor Daniel Lynna (Northwestern University) about the profound effects artificial intelligence is having on policing and the legal system.

Key Discussion Points

• AI in Law Enforcement:

  • AI used for generating police reports, facial recognition, predicting crime “hot spots,” and even assessing future risk of reoffending ([28:56]–[30:57]).
  • Tools like COMPASS assist judges in weighing parole decisions, but lack of transparency in how algorithms operate raises concerns ([31:31]).

• Bias & Limitations:

  • Judges and humans have biases; AI may assist but also pose new risks, especially if used uncritically ([31:59]).
  • High-profile failures:

    “A man in Lee County, Florida was wrongfully arrested for luring or enticing a child [due to] AI facial recog software… [he] was 300 miles away at the time.” — Andrea Canning, [33:03]

• The Future:

  • Speculation about robot-assisted policing, the ever-increasing power and reach of AI systems ([33:46]).
  • Ongoing debate on transparency, accountability, and the appropriate role for technology in criminal justice.

Notable Quotes

• “Humans have biases as well. So having data to help assist judges in making decisions, there’s risks with that.” — Professor Lynna, [31:59]
• “The police need to understand that the computer can get it wrong. This is just one input into conducting good police work and investigations.” — Professor Lynna, [33:22]

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5. Memorable Moments & Quotes (Selected Timestamps)

• "Corey Richards is an intensely ambitious person. She is a risk taker. There was a way forward. Eric had to die." — Prosecutor, [05:39]
• "The first minute is not the sound of a wife becoming a widow. The first minute is the sound of a wife becoming a black widow." — Prosecution, [07:13]
• "She couldn't remember on Friday what she testified to on Thursday." — Defense Comment on Carmen Lauber, [08:37]
• "If Corey was as motivated by money as they would have you think, would she really have killed her wealthy husband to run off with the handyman who lived for free in one of her houses."" — Defense, [07:42]
• "The question of who gave Casey that fatal dose of insulin. Was it Casey herself or was it Megan?" — Marissa Meyer, [18:55]
• "I cannot undo what happened, but I truly wish that I had acted differently when I had the chance." — Samantha Scott, [25:00]
• “It’s progress, and he’s happy about that.” — Carl Leonard on Michael Slover Jr., [28:02]
• "The police need to understand that the computer can get it wrong. This is just one input." — Professor Daniel Lynna, [33:22]

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6. Episode Structure & Flow

• Begins with breaking trial news from Utah (Richins verdict)
• Moves to the ongoing Provo nurse poisoning case
• National crime roundup: Serafini accomplice sentencing, Illinois cold-case DNA developments
• Closes with a thoughtful investigation into the impact and ethical dilemmas of AI in policing

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7. Conclusion

This episode stands out for its mix of breaking courtroom drama, investigative storytelling, and forward-looking discussion of technology in law enforcement. The reporting is balanced, with insightful commentary and an emphasis on the human stories behind each headline.

---

For Further Listening

• Trace of Suspicion (promo): A new original podcast series detailing the aftermath of a Marine’s mysterious death ([34:09]).
• Upcoming Dateline episodes on a tech mogul murder case.

---

Transcript

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[Casual Conversationalist]

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[Andrea Canning]

You're listening in to the DATELINE morning meeting. There's also the Alabama charges. Our producers are swapping tips and story ideas.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

It sounds like the defense is to

[Casual Conversationalist]

throw dirt on the forensics.

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Right.

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We got some antifreeze.

[Karen Israel]

We got a love triangle.

[Marissa Meyer]

And maybe video interrogation, perhaps.

[Andrea Canning]

Welcome to DATELINE True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's March 19th and we're on the road bringing you the podcast from Utah, where I'm covering the Cory Richins trial. More on on that in a little bit. First, here's what's on our docket this week. In Provo, Utah, a nurse is on trial for allegedly poisoning her best friend with insulin. Her defense team says the case is

[Marissa Meyer]

based on lies, like Casey telling people she was afraid of Megan. Was Casey just lying about that? Can you believe anything of what she says?

[Andrea Canning]

In DATELINE Roundup, the latest on an Illinois killer fighting to clear his name and the names of his parents, too. And the newly released police interview with the ex lover of former Major League baseball pitcher and convicted killer Dan Serafini.

[Casual Conversationalist]

We always joke around that we're like a throuple because he always complains that

[Andrea Canning]

he has two wives plus AI at the police station and the courthouse. How is artificial intelligence changing crime fighting?

[Expert/Commentator]

There's a lot of controversy around this. The whole idea is trying to intervene before the crime occurs.

[Andrea Canning]

All right, let's get to our first story. We are here not too far from the Summit County Courthouse, and we've got a huge update for You. In the trial of Corey Richens, the mother of three who authored a children's book about grief, only to be accused of murdering her husband. There's a verdict. Over the past three weeks, prosecutors painstakingly built their case against Corey Richens by calling over 40 witnesses, presenting dozens of exhibits, phone records, toxicology reports, financial documents, all pointing, they say, towards Corey's involvement in her husband's sudden death. The prosecution alleged that the Utah mom had slipped her husband Eric a fatal dose of fentanyl in a cocktail so she could cash in on his life insurance and start her life over with a new man. Then it came time for the defense to present their case, and they took a very different approach. They announced they would not be calling a single witness.

[Casual Conversationalist]

Your Honor, actually, this time, the defense

[Andrea Canning]

intends to rest a decision so surprising, the judge made sure Cory Richins was okay with it.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

I just want to make sure you've consulted with your client about this.

[Casual Conversationalist]

Absolutely.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Ms. Richins, may I ask you two direct questions?

[Casual Conversationalist]

Yes.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Do you understand that you have the right to testify at trial?

[Casual Conversationalist]

Yes, I do.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Are you following your attorney's advice and waiving your right to testify at trial?

[Veronica Mazze]

Yes, I am.

[Andrea Canning]

Closing arguments got underway on Monday, and then the jury was sent off to deliberate. Dateline producer Karen Israel is here with me in the same room in Utah, and she is joining us now to talk about the final chapter in the Corey Richards case. Karen, thanks so much for being here in Utah with me.

[Karen Israel]

Thanks for having me.

[Andrea Canning]

Before we get to the verdict, let's just spend a little bit longer talking about the closing arguments. The prosecution went first. Prosecutor Brad Bloodworth spent a lot of time describing Corey's character. The prosecutor, you know, went after her psychological makeup and said that she was intensely ambitious.

[Expert/Commentator]

Corey Richards is intensely ambitious. She wanted the perfect life, or at least the appearance of the perfect life.

[Karen Israel]

Yeah, he used that phrase intensely ambitious five times in his closing. It's the phrase that he seemed to want the jury to hold onto, to understand just how driven Corey was to get what she wanted. And he said she'd do whatever it took to. To get it. And at first, her husband Eric seemed to provide exactly what she was looking for. But then the prosecutor said Corey got unhappy in the marriage, and she couldn't just walk away. She had too much to lose.

[Andrea Canning]

So, Karen, also in that motive bucket is this prenup that Cory and Eric had. And the prosecutor went into details about that.

[Expert/Commentator]

Their prenuptial agreement meant that if she left him, she would also leave most of his money.

[Karen Israel]

That's right. Bloodworth said Corey did everything she could to make enough money on her own to be able to leave Eric Richins, and took incredible risks trying to do so in her house flipping business. And that's when she crossed paths with her handyman turned lover, Josh Grossman. She seemed to want a life with this man. The prosecutor told the jury that she really only saw one path forward.

[Expert/Commentator]

Corey Richards is an intensely ambitious person. She is a risk taker. There was a way forward. Eric had to die.

[Andrea Canning]

How did the prosecutor sum up how Corey killed Eric?

[Karen Israel]

So the prosecutor said Corey bought illicit street drugs to kill Eric and that Corey gave Eric the drugs she got her hands on in a cocktail. That possibly a Moscow mule or a shot or both.

[Andrea Canning]

We heard early on that 911 call that Corey made the day Eric Richards died. The prosecutor chose to replay that 911 call in closings.

[Casual Conversationalist]

Okay, what's the address?

[Karen Israel]

Yes. So on the call, you hear Corey giving excuses about why she can't give Eric cpr.

[Casual Conversationalist]

I can't move it. Is this dead weight like you're not. If he has sheets under, pull them to the floor. Don't worry about hurting him. Cory, can you please send somebody?

[Karen Israel]

The prosecutor actually put up a time clock while playing the 911 call and estimated there was a six minute delay before Corey actually started doing CPR.

[Andrea Canning]

And so we go back to character here. The prosecutor wanted the jury to listen to Corey's demeanor and, you know, decide for the themselves who this woman really is.

[Expert/Commentator]

The first minute is not the sound of a wife becoming a widow. The first minute is the sound of a wife becoming a black widow.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, then. It was the defense's turn to present their closing arguments.

[Karen Israel]

Defense attorney Wendy Lewis poked holes in the prosecution's theory that Corey killed her husband to be with Josh Grossman, saying that even Grossman himself admitted on the stand that their future together was a mere fantasy. And Cory never promised she would leave Eric for him.

[Casual Conversationalist]

If Corey was as motivated by money as they would have you think, would she really have killed her wealthy husband to run off with the handyman who lived for free in one of her houses.

[Karen Israel]

As to Corey's behavior on the 911 call and after Eric's death, the defense said that people all grieve differently and she shouldn't be judged based on the worst moment of her life.

[Andrea Canning]

The defense attacked the credibility of the state's star witness, Carmen Lauber. She's really key in this, this whole trial. She's Corey's former housekeeper who Testified that she got the fentanyl for Corey, which the prosecution says was the deadly fentanyl.

[Karen Israel]

Yeah, Carmen is so important in this case. And the defense really zeroed in on the point that Carmen's testimony could not be trusted. They said that not only did she give her story in exchange for a get out of jail free card as she was facing serious drug charges, they said her testimony was full of inconsistencies.

[Casual Conversationalist]

She couldn't remember anything. Not from 2022, not from 2023. She couldn't remember on Friday what she testified to on Thursday.

[Andrea Canning]

Jury deliberations got underway Monday afternoon, and the mood was tense.

[Karen Israel]

Yeah, the judge checked in with the jury. They wanted to keep going into the evening. They actually locked up the courthouse and everyone had to stay inside. Then after three hours of deliberating, we learned the jury had reached a verdict.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, let's take a listen.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Count one, aggravated murder. We the jury unanimously find that the defendant, Corey Richins is guilty of aggravated murder.

[Karen Israel]

Richins also faced charges of attempted aggravated murder, fraud, and forgery. She was found guilty of all of those charges.

[Andrea Canning]

And, Karen, I personally felt like as the verdict was being read, you got a sense of sense of how Corey was feeling. It to me, it was written all over her face.

[Karen Israel]

After hearing guilty for the aggravated murder charge, she tipped her head down and you could see her trying to regulate her breathing.

[Andrea Canning]

When will Corey Richards be sentenced?

[Karen Israel]

The judge scheduled sentencing for May 13.

[Andrea Canning]

Richards, incredibly, also faces 26 other felony charges in a separate case, charges all pertaining to alleged financial crimes. And we'll have to wait and see whether prosecutors will pursue that in light of this verdict because she is looking at some very, very serious time behind bars. Karen, thank you for being here with me in Utah.

[Karen Israel]

It's great to be here with you.

[Andrea Canning]

Coming up down the road from the Corey Richards courthouse, we've got another Utah story for you. And another alleged poisoning. This one involves a nurse and her best friend. You've been asking Abercrombie kids for baby and toddler clothes and they finally delivered. Introduce your little one to a collection full of mini looks with major cuteness. From rompers and bodysuits to cute dresses and matching sets all in sizes newborn to 5T. Meet the newest member of the Abercrombie kids family. For the smallest members of yours. Shop new baby and toddler in the app and online.

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Learn [e-mail] Mochi members have access to licensed physicians in nutrition. Results may vary. For our next story, we're heading to Provo, Utah, where it's week two in the trial of nurse Megan Sundwal for the murder of her best friend Casey Terry. At the time of 38 year old Casey's death in August of 2024, her friends and family believed she was terminally ill with cancer. But an autopsy revealed something astonishing. Casey didn't even have cancer. She died from an insulin overdose. After a seven month investigation, police arrested Casey's friend Megan for her murder. Tonight, a Utah nurse is behind bars accused of carrying out a years long murder plot driven by greed for life insurance money. The woman allegedly killed her own roommate. Meghan Sundwal says she's innocent and has pleaded not guilty to charges of murder and obstruction of justice. And as her trial gets underway, her defense team is urging the jury not to jump to conclusions. They say Casey was lying to everyone about having cancer and that wasn't the only thing she lied about. As a warning for our listeners, this segment includes discussion of suicide. DATELINE producer Marissa Meyer, who has been covering the case, is here to get us up to speed. Thanks for joining us, Marissa.

[Marissa Meyer]

Thank you for having me, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

So before we get into the details of the alleged crime, Marissa, tell us about Megan and Casey. Who were they? How did they know each other? And you say they were best friends, right? Or it appeared to be.

[Marissa Meyer]

Yeah. Very, very close. Prosecutors say Casey and Megan met working at a center for adults with intellectual disabilities and they became close friends really quickly. And at one point, Casey even lived with Megan and her husband. So they were very, very close.

[Andrea Canning]

At some point in their friendship, Casey started telling people she had cancer. How did Megan react?

[Marissa Meyer]

So Prosecutors said the friends spoke often about Casey's cancer and how she was in pain and she was worried about dying. The state showed the jury text messages in which Casey expressed suicidal ideations to Megan, saying that she wanted to end her own pain. And they alleged that Megan seemed to be encouraging Casey to follow through with those ideations.

[Casual Conversationalist]

Megan told Casey, there is nothing left for you here. And then another one where she told her, the cat, you have to let go. It is past time.

[Marissa Meyer]

Prosecutors say that the way Megan was talking to her was scaring Casey.

[Andrea Canning]

And they called Casey's sister Kylie, to the stand. She told the jury that Casey got so scared of Megan that she moved out of her house.

[Casual Conversationalist]

I. Me and my husband moved her out around 2020. Why did you and your husband move her out? Because Casey no longer felt safe living there. How did she express that to you? There were multiple phone calls that she felt like Megan was trying to poison her. She just didn't feel comfortable being in that house anymore.

[Andrea Canning]

And Kylie testified that as far as she knew, Casey wasn't suicidal at all.

[Casual Conversationalist]

What did you perceive Casey's attitude about life to be happy? She was a lot more upbeat than I had seen her in a long time. Do you feel she would have confided in you if suicide intention was an issue? Yes.

[Marissa Meyer]

Carly said she believed right from the start that Megan was involved in Casey's death.

[Andrea Canning]

Tell us how life insurance fits into all of this.

[Veronica Mazze]

Yeah.

[Marissa Meyer]

So this is a central part of the case, and what prosecutors say is the motive in the case. The jury learned that Casey told Megan that she had named Megan as the beneficiary of her life insurance policy.

[Casual Conversationalist]

She showed her documents that indicated there was up to a million and a half dollars that Megan was going to be the beneficiary of.

[Marissa Meyer]

And prosecutors noted that Megan was in financial trouble at that point. She'd lost her job, she totaled her car, and her husband's child support payments from a previous marriage had gone way up.

[Andrea Canning]

So, Marissa, with all of what we've just talked about, what do prosecutors say happened on August 12, 2024?

[Marissa Meyer]

So they say that Megan entered Casey's home that day with a plan.

[Casual Conversationalist]

Her plan was that she would go to her friend Casey Carey's house, she would inject her with insulin, and monitor her blood glucose until Casey died.

[Marissa Meyer]

And prosecutors say Megan did not call 911 to get her help. Casey's uncle eventually did, and then Casey died three days later in the hospital.

[Andrea Canning]

And there's a big twist in all this. We said in. In the Intro. Casey didn't even have cancer.

[Marissa Meyer]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

So had she been lying to everyone then, including Megan?

[Marissa Meyer]

Yes. So Casey's lies have formed the basis of. Of the defense's argument. The defense is saying that Casey lied a lot. They say that she was lying about cancer. She was lying about a ton of other things. And they say that, you know, maybe she was doing all this to try to get attention from people.

[Andrea Canning]

Wow.

[Marissa Meyer]

Yeah.

[Andrea Canning]

So the defense is basically attacking the credibility of the victim, which is always dicey.

[Marissa Meyer]

Yes. It's always a gamble. But I think for the defense, they feel it's really important here because it raises doubts for the jury about things the prosecutors said, which could be very damning about Megan's character, like Casey telling people she was afraid of Megan or being worried that Megan might kill her. Was Casey just lying about that? Can you believe anything of what she says?

[Andrea Canning]

When it came down to those text messages about Casey's desire for a quote, unquote, release from her illness, wanting to die by suicide, what did the defense have to say about that?

[Marissa Meyer]

Well, they're saying that maybe Megan believed Casey and was trying to support her friend.

[Andrea Canning]

So does the defense dispute that Megan was with Casey on the night of August 12th?

[Marissa Meyer]

So they do not. And it's one of those things where they can't really dispute it because there are witnesses who place Megan there. But they say Megan was aware of Casey's alleged plan to die that night by suicide via this insulin overdose, and that she went to Casey's house to support her emotionally, just emotionally, not to administer any doses of insulin.

[Andrea Canning]

So are they saying then, that Casey injected the insulin into herself?

[Marissa Meyer]

Exactly. That's what this whole case boils down to. The question of who gave Casey that fatal dose of insulin. Was it Casey herself or was it Megan?

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so there's yet another twist in this story, Marissa, that has to do with this insurance policy.

[Marissa Meyer]

I know, I know. This is twist number four, five, or six.

[Andrea Canning]

I think there's more at this point. Yeah.

[Marissa Meyer]

Yeah. Both sides also agree that this $1.5 million life insurance policy Casey told Megan was in her name. It never existed. So Megan didn't actually stand to receive any money after Casey's death.

[Andrea Canning]

What can we expect next in the courtroom?

[Marissa Meyer]

So the prosecution is still calling witnesses, and we'll continue to watch the testimony before the defense begins their case.

[Andrea Canning]

Before we go, we'd like to share some information. If you or someone you know is in crisis, call the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988 or visit 988 lifeline.org for more resources. Thank you for bringing us this very complicated story, Marissa, and breaking it down.

[Marissa Meyer]

Thank you, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Up next, it's time for DATELINE Roundup. Dramatic updates from an Illinois courtroom in a 30 year old murder case and the sentencing of Samantha Scott, the ex lover of former baseball pitcher and convicted killer Dan Serafini. Plus, more police departments are using AI to fight crime, even crimes that haven't happened yet.

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Learn [e-mail] Mochi members have access to licensed physicians and nutritionists. Results may vary. Welcome back. Joining me for this week's roundup is DATELINE producer Veronica Mazze. Rebecca Hey, Veronica.

[Veronica Mazze]

Hey, Andrea.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so, Veronica, for our first story, we're heading to a California courtroom and the sentencing of a key player in a case we have been following very closely. This is the 2021 shooting of Gary Spore and his wife, Wendy Wood by their son in law, former major league baseball pitcher Dan Serafini. He was married to the couple's daughter, Erin. Gary was killed at the Scene. Wendy survived the shooting but died by suicide the next year.

[Casual Conversationalist]

My mom's blood is on Samantha Scott's hands.

[Andrea Canning]

That is the voice of Gary and Wendy's other daughter Adrian, talking about Samantha Scott, Serafini's nanny and lover. Veronica, remind us how Samantha Scott fits into this case.

[Veronica Mazze]

Yes. So a jury convicted Dan Serafini of first degree murder and attempted murder in July, and he is now serving life without parole. Samantha Scott testified against Serafini at his trial. She admitted that they were lovers and that she dropped him off in Tahoe the day of the shooting.

[Andrea Canning]

So, Veronica, interesting timing here. Samantha Scott's initial interview with detectives was just released, so we can hear for ourselves what she told them in those early days. Samantha says she thought Sarah Feeney was going to Tahoe to buy drugs, not to kill his in laws.

[Veronica Mazze]

That's correct. And you hear the detectives getting frustrated with her. They say that they don't believe her, but she sticks to her guns. And that's actually consistent with what she said. Ever since she says she had no idea what Serafini was planning.

[Andrea Canning]

In that same interview, Samantha Scott also downplayed her relationship with Serafini at the beginning of all of this, saying it was more of a flirtatious friendship than an affair.

[Expert/Commentator]

Are you and Danny together, or is it a sexual thing?

[Casual Conversationalist]

Or just friends? Um, so we're friends. I mean, they're family. I'm very close with Erin, and I'm very close with Dan. There's a recent flirtation going on, which I'm sure you will see on my phone with Dan. Mm. Okay.

[Expert/Commentator]

Not Aaron.

[Casual Conversationalist]

No, not with Aaron. And we always joke around that we're like a throuple because he always complains that he has two wives.

[Andrea Canning]

Eventually, Samantha agreed to cooperate with prosecutors and told them she'd been hiding something, that Serafini had actually confessed to her after the shootings. She pleaded guilty to accessory after the fact. Which brings us back to her sentencing this week. What Veronica did the judge ultimately decide?

[Veronica Mazze]

Samantha Scott was sentenced to two years of probation with no additional jail time.

[Andrea Canning]

And Samantha addressed the court as well.

[Veronica Mazze]

Yes, she apologized and took full responsibility for lying to investigators.

[Casual Conversationalist]

My heart goes out to the victims and their family. I cannot undo what happened, but I truly wish that I had acted differently when I had the chance.

[Veronica Mazze]

The judge said he was troubled by her conduct, but found her testimony credible. She is also prohibited from having any contact with Serafini, and he is filing an appeal.

[Andrea Canning]

So we will see where that goes. For our next story, we're heading To Illinois, where there's been a development in a case that's nearly 30 years old. In 1996, a boater on lake Shelbyville found a bag containing the head of an aspiring model, Karen Hearn Slover. A few years later, Karen's ex husband, Michael Slover Jr. And his parents were convicted in connection with her murder. Now, new DNA analysis could change everything. Veronica, give us a quick recap of this case.

[Veronica Mazze]

Karen went missing in late September 1996. The car she was last seen driving was found abandoned on the highway, but there was no sign of Karen. A few days later, her remains were found. Then, in 2002, Michael Slover Jr. And his parents were convicted of murder. Prosecutors told the jury that concrete debris found in Karen's abandoned car actually matched concrete debris found in the parking lot of the slovers family business. And they said that investigators had found a button at the family business that matched the buttons on the shirt Karen had been wearing when she disappeared.

[Andrea Canning]

Michael and his parents have always maintained their innocence. And the Illinois innocence project took on their case a few years ago.

[Veronica Mazze]

Yes. In 2024, they filed a motion asking for the conviction to be thrown out, arguing that the prosecution's case had been built on junk science. Things like comparing the concrete debris and buttons. But the really big thing in that motion was that they said there was, quote, newly discovered DNA evidence in the case.

[Andrea Canning]

What DNA evidence are they referring to?

[Veronica Mazze]

They said that there was forensic testing that had identified three DNA profiles on items associated with the crime, like duct tape that was used to seal the bags containing Karen's remains. They said none of the DNA belonged to the Slovers. They petitioned a judge to order the Illinois state police to submit the DNA profiles to both state and national law enforcement databases, including codis. They said that this could actually lead them to the real killers.

[Andrea Canning]

So what did the judge decide?

[Veronica Mazze]

The judge recently ordered that the police start submitting the profiles for analysis. And at a court hearing last week, the defense told the judge that the process is underway, but it is far from complete.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so where do they go from here? The police?

[Veronica Mazze]

The Illinois state police will continue that analysis, but prosecutors are pushing back against the defense team's motion to overturn the convictions. They say that the jury made the right decision at trial, and the investigation was solidified.

[Andrea Canning]

Okay, so meantime, Michael Slover Jr. Is out of prison?

[Veronica Mazze]

Yes. He got out on parole in 2024. Both of his parents died in prison. His attorney, Carl Leonard, spoke to our local affiliate, wand, about Michael's reaction to this new development.

[Expert/Commentator]

It's been a really long wait for him, and he's, I think, eager to eventually have his day in court. It's progress, and he's happy about that.

[Andrea Canning]

Very interesting. Veronica, thank you so much for bringing us these stories.

[Veronica Mazze]

Of course. Thank.

[Andrea Canning]

For our final story this week, we're diving into a topic that's been getting a lot of attention lately. AI or artificial intelligence. AI is something that is increasingly in our lives, from the search engines on our computers and phones to our kids using it for their homework. But what if we told you that AI is also being used to fight crime, generating police reports, tracking down fugitives, even predicting future crimes? Here to fill us in on this new frontier in law enforcement is Professor Daniel Lynna, senior lecturer and director of Law and Technology initiatives at Northwestern University. Thanks for joining me, Dan.

[Expert/Commentator]

Yeah, glad to be here.

[Andrea Canning]

The first thing that jumps to mind is Minority Report, the movie with Tom Cruise about, you know, it came out a long time ago, but it's. It was really about predicting future murders. We are arresting individuals who have broken no law but they will.

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[Expert/Commentator]

Right, right, right. Well, yeah, a lot of people bring that up. And how are they actually making these predictions? Is there any validity to that? And that's still kind of a relevant question they have here. When we talk about AI, it's really important to understand what kind of tools are being used. What's the data being used? How is it being used for these different things?

[Andrea Canning]

Let's just start with the basics of what we mean when we say AI, artificial intelligence. What exactly is it?

[Expert/Commentator]

There's a wide range of things you might think about. These generative AI tools that produce text, produce images. And you said writing police reports. Right. Those are the kind of tools you could use. Tools that would summarize a conversation, perhaps, and help create a police report, or face recognition tools, which have been around for a little bit longer. Different type of technology, obviously, one of

[Andrea Canning]

the things we love is how quickly These sites like ChatGPT can spit everything out that you're looking for. And there's some AI applications that could really, I feel like, cut down on time for law enforcement when they're searching, you know, for a suspect. You know, we've talked about facial recognition, but also detecting fingerprint matches, identifying weapons on security cameras.

[Expert/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes that speed can be really important. Right. If you can identify that someone has pulled out a weapon in a video camera. Right. And draw people's attention to that right away, versus expecting that someone was looking at that video camera at the time. Right. That can make a huge difference.

[Andrea Canning]

Another way police departments have started to use AI is by using software to analyze crime data and look for patterns that could help predict future crimes. Which is what we were talking about earlier with Minority Report.

[Expert/Commentator]

Yeah. And this is something that's been going on for a while, different versions of this and it's quite controversial, but there's a lot of different type of data that is gathered to make these predictions. There can be place based predictions. Are there particular areas where you think there may be crime? Or it can be person based predictions. Prediction. Some of the person based prediction used properly could be helpful in the sense that you identify individuals who, hey, maybe there's an intervention here and we can help change the pathway this person is on so they're, they're not involved in a violent crime or something like that.

[Andrea Canning]

The New York State Parole Board uses an AI tool called COMPASS to predict the likelihood of an individual reoffending when deciding on that individual's parole. You know, is this a good idea to be having a computer help deciding something like this when there's so many factors that go into a human being and what they've done, what they may do, what's their background, what's their future?

[Expert/Commentator]

Well, to give a lawyerly answer, I'd say it depends. Right. I mean, but and it really depends on the kind of tool that's being used. And you know, we sometimes forget in these discussions that humans have biases as well. So having data to help assist judges in making decisions, there's risks with that. And I think a big problem with COMPAs, for example, is transparency and not having access to, you know, what is the algorithm, how are they computing this? And at the same time, there have been some studies that suggest that this information being provided to judges has actually resulted in better decisions where people were released that did not reoffend. Right. Judges make decisions that aren't the best or biased sometimes as well. Can data counteract that in different ways so we get better outcomes? And I think that this highlights something that, you know, we're all going to have to get savvier about understanding the ways in which these AI tools work and learning more about them. And where we see problems is over align some of technology. The the areas where outputs from an AI system is treated as like, you know, this is the way the world is. This is the correct result.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah. Just last year, according to Gulf Coast News, a man in Lee County, Florida was wrongfully arrested for luring or enticing a child. AI facial recog software identified him as the person of interest on camera leaving a restaurant. Turned out that the man who was ID'd was 300 miles away at the time and had never been to that town.

[Expert/Commentator]

Yeah, we've had a few incidents like this. Unfortunately, you know, the police need to understand that the computer can get it wrong. This is just one input into conducting good police work and investigations.

[Andrea Canning]

Where do you think we're going with this as far as if we had this conversation and even, you know, two years, three years, like it's, it's so rapidly evolving. Do you think we'll see someday robots at crime scenes?

[Expert/Commentator]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, it just depends on what your, your notion of a, of a robot is.

[Andrea Canning]

Right.

[Expert/Commentator]

But yeah, I think that we're going to try to bring tools like that into more and more of our daily interactions.

[Andrea Canning]

Dan, thank you so much for joining us. This fascinating conversation and it just makes you wonder what the future is going to hold.

[Expert/Commentator]

Thank you.

[Andrea Canning]

That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. But remember to check out my friend Josh's brand new original podcast series, Trace of Suspicion. It's got a lot of twists and I think you're gonna like it. It's about the aftermath of a Marine's unexpected death. Investigators suspected his widow had something to do with it setting off a criminal case, case that took a stunning turn.

[Casual Conversationalist]

I really want to let everyone know that this really can happen to them. Innocent people go to prison for life and that's a scary thing.

[Andrea Canning]

The first four episodes are available now for free wherever you get your podcasts. And if you subscribe to Dateline Premium, you can binge the whole series ad free. Coming up this Friday on Dateline, we've got more Josh for you. You can watch his episode about the murder of a beloved tech mogul that, that stunned a city and sent investigators into a world of glamour, parties and rage.

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That is the most far out story I think I've ever heard in my life.

[Casual Conversationalist]

I think that there is something deeply

[Andrea Canning]

disturbing about this person. Watch under the Bay Bridge airing this Friday at 9, 8 Central on NBC or stream it starting Saturday on Peacock. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins, Caroline Casey and Keani Reed. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone Groth and Aria Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Kurloff. Production and fact checking help by Audrey Abrahams. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original Music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Kuhl as senior executive producer of dateline.

[Casual Conversationalist]

Okay, thanks very much.

[Andrea Canning]

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