$500k for a TikTok!?

Summary

Episode Summary: "$500k for a TikTok!?"

Podcast Title: De-Influenced with Dani + Jordan
Hosts: Dani (A) and Jordan (B)
Release Date: October 17, 2024
Episode Title: $500k for a TikTok!?

In this episode of De-Influenced with Dani + Jordan, hosts Dani and Jordan delve into the evolving landscape of social media influence, particularly focusing on the dynamics between TikTok and Instagram, the mental health implications of influencer culture, and personal anecdotes that highlight their experiences in the digital world. The episode seamlessly blends professional insights with personal stories, offering listeners an unfiltered look into the challenges and triumphs of navigating the influencer industry.

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1. Authenticity vs. Perfection in the Influencer Space

Morning Routines and Authenticity

Dani opens the conversation by discussing her recent shift from maintaining a flawless appearance for public appearances to embracing a more authentic and "ratchet" look. She shares her internal struggle between "faking it till she makes it" and being true to herself, emphasizing the importance of feeling good internally over projecting perfection externally.

• Notable Quote:
  "Maybe it's okay to signal to the world that I'm ratchet. Why am I trying to be perfect? When I go to a parent-teacher conference, it's okay that people say, yeah, Dani's a mess, and she's just never got it together. We're all going to die one day, so it doesn't matter."
  [02:00] - Dani

Jordan supports Dani by highlighting her constant quest for self-improvement and her efforts to gain control over her life amidst the chaos of daily responsibilities.

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2. The Princeton Experience and Ethical Responsibility

Visit to Princeton

The hosts recount their recent trip to Princeton, exploring the university's rich history and prestigious reputation. Dani shares a heartfelt story about finding a lost wallet on campus and her commitment to returning it, demonstrating her integrity and sense of responsibility.

• Notable Quote:
  "Doing good and doing a good act of duty is so much work. I was like, I'm going to pick this up and turn it into the front desk."
  [12:18] - Dani

Jordan relates by comparing his experiences of picking up trash with their team member, emphasizing the importance of character and integrity.

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3. Navigating the TikTok vs. Instagram Landscape

Scrutiny and Cancel Culture on TikTok

Dani and Jordan engage in a deep discussion about the challenges TikTok influencers face, especially regarding scrutiny and cancel culture. They compare this with their experiences on Instagram, noting that TikTok's low barrier to entry leads to a higher volume of content and, consequently, more intense scrutiny.

• Notable Quote:
  "The TikTok scrutiny is so much more toxic and harmful to your mental health than Instagram because the content is less thoughtful, and the barrier to entry is so low."
  [29:40] - Dani

Jordan echoes these sentiments, pointing out that TikTokers may be less prepared to handle the intense public scrutiny compared to long-established Instagram influencers who have learned to manage narratives over time.

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4. The Influencer Economy: Brand Deals and Revenue Streams

Monetization Strategies

The hosts delve into the complexities of monetizing influencer content on TikTok versus Instagram. They discuss high-priced TikTok brand deals, questioning their effectiveness and conversion rates compared to traditional Instagram partnerships.

• Notable Quote:
  "Premier top-of-class TikTokers charging $500k for a single TikTok is crazy. But do they convert as effectively as Instagrammers?"
  [52:23] - Jordan

Dani reflects on her past experiences with brand partnerships on YouTube, highlighting the challenges of converting views into tangible revenue and the importance of authentic engagement over sheer numbers.

---

5. Personal Anecdotes: Health Scare and Technology Missteps

Gallstones and ChatGPT Misdiagnosis

In a poignant segment, Dani shares a harrowing experience of severe heartburn during her pregnancy, which led to multiple episodes of vomiting and a near misdiagnosis facilitated by ChatGPT. This story underscores the limitations of relying solely on AI for medical advice and the importance of professional healthcare consultation.

• Notable Quote:
  "ChatGPT really led us astray. It called it GERD, but I was actually dealing with gallstones. Next time, they advised to go to the emergency room or call labor and delivery."
  [61:30] - Dani

Jordan adds to the narrative by explaining how they used ChatGPT in an attempt to understand Dani's symptoms, ultimately realizing the need for professional medical help.

---

6. Reflections on Professionalism and Business Ethics

Dani’s Early Career Challenges

Dani recounts her early professional experiences, including a failed attempt to improve a startup's failing product by presenting a thorough competitive analysis. Her story highlights the importance of believing in one's product and the challenges of navigating corporate politics.

• Notable Quote:
  "I created a presentation comparing our wearable to the Apple Watch, highlighting why our product was overpriced and underperforming. But instead of valuing my input, the company ignored the fundamental issue."
  [76:05] - Dani

Jordan reflects on this experience, emphasizing the lessons learned about product quality, the necessity of diverse team perspectives, and the pitfalls of chasing funding without addressing core product flaws.

---

7. The Future of Content Creation and Influencer Partnerships

Emerging Trends and Opportunities

In the concluding segments, Dani and Jordan speculate on the future of influencer marketing, especially with the rise of TikTok Shop and affiliate marketing strategies. They discuss the potential for higher conversion rates through authentic user-generated content and the evolving relationship between influencers and brands.

• Notable Quote:
  "The creators that will make the most in the industry are those TikTokers who blend Instagram affiliate strategies, like try-on hauls with TikTok Shop links."
  [57:52] - Jordan

Dani expresses curiosity about how these new monetization methods will perform compared to traditional brand deals, emphasizing the need for influencers to adapt and embrace authenticity to thrive.

---

Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Dani and Jordan provide a candid exploration of the influencer industry's current state, balancing professional insights with personal vulnerabilities. Their discussions offer valuable perspectives on authenticity, ethical responsibilities, monetization strategies, and the mental health challenges faced by influencers. By sharing their own experiences and reflections, they create an engaging and relatable narrative for listeners navigating similar paths in the digital landscape.

Notable Quotes Recap:

• "Maybe it's okay to signal to the world that I'm ratchet. Why am I trying to be perfect?" — Dani [02:00]
• "Doing good and doing a good act of duty is so much work." — Dani [12:18]
• "The TikTok scrutiny is so much more toxic and harmful to your mental health than Instagram." — Dani [29:40]
• "Premier top-of-class TikTokers charging $500k for a single TikTok is crazy." — Jordan [52:23]
• "ChatGPT really led us astray." — Dani [61:30]
• "The creators that will make the most in the industry are those TikTokers who blend Instagram affiliate strategies." — Jordan [57:52]

---

Note: This summary excludes promotional segments and non-content sections, focusing solely on the substantive discussions between Dani and Jordan.

Transcript

[A]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Hello and welcome back to your favorite podcast, de Influence. I'm coming at you looking mighty fine this morning. Yeah.

[B]

You just went straight from parent teacher conference to.

[A]

No, straight from working out. And then I went on a walk, and then I went to a parent teacher conference, and now I'm here. Sweat, workout clothes, no makeup. Actually, I did put on a little under eye concealer just to brighten my eyes for this video. I'm not going to lie and all.

[B]

Yeah. Are you okay? Because did you go on a walk by yourself?

[A]

I did.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I know.

[B]

In the history of our marriage, I know. Never happen. I asked Stella, I was like, where's mommy? She's on a walk. Is she with Ellie? No, by herself.

[A]

Well, there's two reasons why I'm going on walks these days.

[B]

Are you soul searching?

[A]

Always. Every day.

[B]

I know, but that's.

[A]

No, let me tell you one. It's. I'm trying to listen to these, like, podcasts every day that are like my inspirational podcasts where I'm trying to start my day off on, like, the right foot. And so I need that time. And I. I didn't get it yesterday, and I was feeling very empty, and I was like, the only way I'm gonna be able to listen to this podcast is if I skip getting ready and go on a walk, which is so hard because, like, you know me, all I want to do is. Is fake it till I make it and trick people that I have it all together all the time. And the best way you can do that is by getting ready in the morning. Right. Like, looking good, putting on your makeup and going to the parent teacher conference looking, like, put together. There's nothing that signals to the world more. Except for, I think, when you have your nails done. My friend one time told me, you can tell a lot by a person by the way that their nails look. And I. That has always stuck with me. And I'm always like, when my nails look ratchet, I'm like, get it together, Danny. Like you are. You're signaling ratchetness. But then. So then I'm coming to, like, terms with this concept lately that I'm like, maybe it's okay to signal to the world that I'm ratchet. Why am I trying to be perfect? Why do I have to look that way? When I go to parent teacher conference, it's okay that people say, yeah, Danny's a mess, and she's just never got it together. Okay, we're all going to die one day. So it doesn't matter.

[B]

Danny really took that Billie Eilish quote hard. She says it. She doesn't quote Gandhi. She doesn't quote any. She quotes this Billie Eilish quote.

[A]

There are two quotes that get me through. One of them is one day at a time. That one really gets me through because I get very overwhelmed easily. So I'm like, okay, one day at a time. And then we're all going to die one day, so what does it matter? It's so true. Billie Eilish, which is Billie Eilish. And I don't know who came up with One day at a Time. So anyway, I had to, like, I came to this fork in the road this morning. I was either fake it till you make it or be yourself. And so I thought it's more important probably for me this morning to get this podcast in and to go on a walk and feel good internally, then look good externally and feel broken inside. It's just like, it's mind boggling.

[B]

Do you know, like, how. How well I know you is that I knew you went on a walk by yourself and I knew something deep and I was absolutely right. I was like, there's no way she's just going on a walk. Like, this is like, this is an existential thing. And I was like, I'm gonna ask her later. I'll figure it out.

[A]

Well, because I'm also really into this mindset right now. I've been talking to my mentor a lot about this, about making lifestyle changes without really changing your lifestyle. So you and I talk a lot about moving to the farm or we talk a lot about moving to a house where the kids actually have like a real play playroom and not extreme everything. Like, extreme measures. Like. And I am just so convinced that your problems follow you everywhere. And I feel like you're so, like, we move to a farm and all of our problems just fade away. And so I have been trying to figure out, okay, with my current circumstances and with this messy house and with this crazy morning schedule, how can I change my lifestyle with the lifestyle that I have and can. I'm like, trying to prove it to myself. I have some, like, other little things that I want to work into. Like, I'm trying to gain back control of my life.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

It's so hard. I. It's like you have to be on the defense a lot. Like, you have to. It's like I envision every day waking up and it's not about what I'm doing, it's about What I'm guarding myself from. From. Because there's so much you can be doing on a daily basis that comes at you. It's like parent teacher conference. It's like a workout. It's like these thoughts of, like, oh, my gosh, I need to interview this person on podcast. I need to do this and this. But instead of just accepting, absorbing it all, it's more like blocking it. Being like, no. And it's like, I envision myself, like, in jiu Jitsu. Maybe I need to start doing jiu jitsu.

[B]

So, morning. Number one, Blocking these thoughts out.

[A]

No, I've been doing it for, like, a while now. It's been, like, six days. Thank you very much.

[B]

I'm sorry. There was never a flash in the sky that told me that we were starting this.

[A]

No. Because here's the thing. Other thing about me, you know, I would never verbalize that. No, I would never verbalize it. I just do it. I am so much more into actions, speak louder than words. And the last thing I want to do as a three on the Enneagram is say, I'm going to do something and then not do it. And then I'm just a failure at life. So I do. I keep it all inside.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not a great thing. I'm just saying that's what I do. So, anyway, that is why I look the way that I look and I smell the way that I smell.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But we went to the parent teacher conference this morning.

[B]

Stratton's great.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, y'all. The teacher, like, had nothing but wonderful things to say about Stratton.

[B]

And he got plus marks on all of his things.

[A]

The one thing she said is he's very protective over his toys, which makes a lot of sense because Stella steals everything from him. And it's so cute because anytime he leaves school, he has to give everyone not only a hug, but a bessel.

[B]

We should probably talk about that when he's older. But it's okay.

[A]

We're like, consent cute now. Consent. We asked if we could give a bessel first, but no. He's so loving and, like, he's making friends, but he's also really good at independent play. Yeah. Did she have any other feedback?

[B]

No, just that he was not ready to potty train.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. That was the only negative we were trying to maybe get. Slide that in before baby number three gets here, but I just don't think. I don't think that's gonna happen.

[B]

No, he's not ready.

[A]

He's not ready. He still lies about poo poo.

[B]

He's a very private poo pooer.

[A]

No, it's just like. I'm like. He's like, no. And I'm like, baby, like, I smell it. You do.

[B]

Just see.

[A]

Just tell mommy. Okay, so we're gonna be working on that. Yeah, we've had a pretty good week.

[B]

You know about, like, Princeton.

[A]

Princeton. We went to visit Princeton. We had a quick 24 hour trip there. I know. I'm a horrible mom. I went on a 24 hour trip.

[B]

No one's saying that.

[A]

They are, though.

[B]

No one's saying that.

[A]

Well, the inner me is.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I feel like we both felt parent guilt, but no one. No one's saying that.

[A]

October is a crazy time. I think everyone is probably feeling a little bit of. Of mom guilt these days or parent guilt.

[B]

I'm exhausted from October, babe.

[A]

I was snoring last night.

[B]

I know. I'm so tired.

[A]

Isn't it hard that when you're married to a pregnant person, like, your emotions and your physical feelings, like, don't matter anymore?

[B]

Oh, no, I'm. I'm aware. I'm very aware.

[A]

Isn't it so hard? Like, he came down and, like, guys, my lower back is, like, on a sale of 1 to 10. Like, it's a 9 pain. Like, I can't even walk. I am waddling. I'm in so much pain. And Jordan came into the podcast room and tried to sit down. He's like, oh. I'm like, don't even start with me. I'm like, you don't even know what it's like right now. I have a human being in my stomach.

[B]

Like, no.

[A]

The.

[B]

The best thing. The best thing a male can do during his wife's pregnancy is go through. No. Go through a cut. Like, no.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like a. Like a physical cut. Like, try and, like, lose weight.

[A]

Okay. How do you do that?

[B]

You just, like, when you're cutting, you have to, like, roll back your calories.

[A]

And, like, do a lot more cardio.

[B]

Yeah, well, kind of. But, like, you can go through a cut because when you go through a cut, it lowers your testosterone so you have less of a sex drive. I was telling you this with Preston.

[A]

No, you did not tell me this.

[B]

Yes, when you're cutting, like, if I go on a like, 300.

[A]

You have not had less of a sex drive.

[B]

No, surprisingly, no. Surprisingly, during my cut, I for sure did. You just didn't notice it because you were like, stay away from me. You're also asleep. But the bat, that's one thing that you can do. And then the second thing is get a hobby. I have had so many hobbies during this pregnancy.

[A]

Yeah. You almost picked up Legos the other day. I'm sorry.

[B]

No, I saw the architecture Legos, and I was like, wait, should I get it stopped?

[A]

And we're at the airport and he's like. And I was like, no, absolutely not. We're not doing Legos. I was like, we already do enough of.

[B]

But it was like the adult Legos. I was like, wait, I could like, actually, like, build a city in my office. Like, this is kind of cool.

[A]

Jordan is a very interesting. He. He. He gets hobbies for, like, three months and then moves on.

[B]

Yeah. Catan. And then I got into Risk eight balling.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So.

[A]

So anyway, yes. So we went to Princeton, and wow, that is one gorgeous campus. Did you know that Brooke Shields went there? Jeff Bezos, Michelle Obama, one of the Menendez brothers, went there. He ended up being a killer, so yikes, that's hard. But he actually got kicked out of Princeton for cheating. A lot of amazing people win there. But, like, the craziest thing, it's the fourth oldest university in the United States. It was a charter school, I think, like, originally, like, British for the British. Yeah. You know, it was like, around 1750 that it came to be. It used to be called the University of Jersey, and then it became Princeton, and it moved, like, locations just a little bit in, like, the 1770s, 1780s, that kind of time period. And it is, like a very, very prestigious school. When you walk around, you just feel like you're surrounded by genius.

[B]

And I really did. I felt like I was just in this elite, like, academic.

[A]

Yes, because you are, like. You are. I mean, like, it's like the best of the best, the cream of the crop.

[B]

It's crazy and it's so. It's one of the most beautiful campuses I've ever walked.

[A]

So beautiful. Nassau hall served as the nation's capital during the Revolutionary War for a little bit, which is just. I mean, historic. They had the. The. The ivy that they're known for, like, growing up. The walls of all of it was this Gothic architecture. So it's like super. Just. Oh, you just feel like the excellence. We found some person.

[B]

Danny discovered ChatGPT last week for sure. Like, I. I mean, I showed her. I downloaded the app, and she has just had a heyday. I mean.

[A]

No.

[B]

Did I not even spit that information? No. I knew it was going to be so good for you.

[A]

I Know, I love it. I'm so into it. And like, that's why I know that I have gallstones now. We'll get into.

[B]

No, actually, it didn't really help us with the gallstones. It was your dms.

[A]

True, true, true, true.

[B]

I, I, yeah, it's not, it's not infallible yet because it did not tell me. I asked so many questions.

[A]

No, it did mention the gallstones and I was like, nah, ever.

[B]

That's true. But it called it gerd, but I don't know what that means.

[A]

Anyway, so, yeah, Princeton was amazing. I did this amazing, like, active duty. You remember what I did? Oh, guys, I found some girl's wallet on the ground. And let me tell you. Okay, so her name was Joy, Joy Okada, I think. Okada, Okado, something like that. She had no social media. Trust me, I tried. I found her wallet in the middle of a park in, on the campus. And let me tell you, like, doing good and doing like a good act of duty is so much work. Like, I was just like, I'm going to pick this up and turn it into a front desk. Or like, no front desks anywhere we stop. So many people that work at Princeton. Everybody's like, yeah, I don't know.

[B]

Where you take that is almost like more of a burden for them to tell us what to do than anything.

[A]

Than anything. And at some point I was like, well, do I just put it back on the ground? Like, I don't know. But then I was like, no, Danny, because think about, like, remember when my, my ring concierge bracelet dropped in New Jersey in Chicago? I was like, people have gone above and beyond for me. Of course it dropped right next to the front desk, but they've gone above and beyond for me. So I'm going above and beyond for Joy. So we finally found out where the student not student center, but it was the department of Safety on the campus. It was a mile away. And my back is freaking killing me and I'm so pregnant. And I was like, no, Joy, I got your back. Don't you worry. So anyway, we finally got there and then they had to take all my information. And I was like, this is like a whole thing. Can I just give you the freaking wallet? Yeah.

[B]

They're like, ma'am, what's your address? And you were like, I'm just turning this in.

[A]

I'm like, I don't even go here. That's literally what I said to them. They're like, well, we still need it for records. And I was like, I don't want you to be recorded. Just take the wallet.

[B]

No. That was a strong character move. It's kind of like when one time I was walking with Miles and he, every time I walk with him, he will pick up trouble trash. Like we were in Michigan at the Ann Arbor campus and if he sees trash on the ground, he will pick it up and throw it away. And I'm like, wow, you know what? That's character right there. That is high integrity character.

[A]

There's another saying that my mentor always says to me and she says, when you don't know what to do, do the next right thing. And I just, that always plays in my head when you don't know what to do. Number three is do the next right thing. I really need to start like an inspiration board.

[B]

It's so funny because like the, the quotes that you have had are like cheesy, so basic. I mean it's like just one day at a time. You're like, that's really stuck with me.

[A]

It's really powerful because that's honestly what self growth is, is. Everybody tries to make it so complicated and it's supposed to be simple. It's supposed to be like one day at a time. It's not supposed to be like this like really long, intricate like thing. Just like we don't know what to do. Do the next right thing.

[B]

Y.

[A]

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[B]

You really don't like word salad either. I've learned that about you the past three weeks. Like, if someone is BSing and is just, like, saying, like, buzzwords and not just getting to the point, you were like, done.

[A]

I'm like, and that's a word salad for you.

[B]

Yeah, word salad.

[A]

Okay. So a word salad is. Is basically when you ask somebody a question and they just give you all this, like, beautiful, decorated answer, but they don't really answer the question.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it happens a lot in politics.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, you ask somebody and then they say something that sounds so wonderful, but it's like you kind of miss the point.

[B]

Or someone like. Or someone who can say all of the right terms and words around a topic, but, like, very clearly doesn't understand the essence of what they're actually saying.

[A]

When they're not really being, like, real.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think is a word salad.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's just like a salad of words, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just words. And it's like, dude, like, get real with us. Like, really? How did you do it? So anyway, I have to tell you something, though, that has been really hard for me this week.

[B]

What?

[A]

I was very humbled. Very humbled.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

So I got invited to a rare beauty event in Dallas, which is, like, kind of a big deal because it's Selena Gomez brand, you know, first of all, anytime that Selena Gomez does things, she usually shows up, you know, like, so I'm like, is Selena gonna be at this event? She's, like, kind of from the Texas area.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, oh, my gosh. She goes around. She does, like, tick tocks with people. Like, she loves. Apparently she loves meeting other influencers and other content creat. So part of me is like, I am not missing this first of all, I love rare beauty. I love Selena. Like, I'm here for it. She was out there. It's okay. It was at a beautiful restaurant. I had no friends that were going, but, you know, I texted all my mommy blogger friends, other influencers, and I'm like, this is either gonna be, like, really exclusive, like, or I. Or honestly, I told you before, I said or I'm gonna be put with a lot of. A bunch of Tiktokers who. I have no idea who they are. Like, yeah. And let me tell you, that's exactly what happened, okay? I go to this event, you guys, and there are so many. And here's the thing about Tiktokers. They are stunning. They are beautiful people. I've never seen so many beautiful, beautiful people in a room. There's something about the mommy blogger. You know, a lot of us are very average. Just talking about myself, but, like, something about, like, the Instagram world, it's, like, very, like, real and relatable. And I'm not saying TikTok isn't. It is. But a lot of these girls, their vibes. They are vibes, and they are beautiful, and they are, like, perfect skin and this gorgeous hair, and they're very aspirational, right? And so I showed up, and immediately I know, like, one person. Like, literally, when I go to events in Dallas, like, I've been here for a while, I typically know almost everyone, and if I don't know them, I've heard of them, you know? And I am, like, on my phone, like, googling these people. I'm like, where? Like, what's going on? Like, so I find out slowly through the dinner, throughout the dinner, that these are Tiktokers. These girls have, like, over a million followers on Tik Tok, but then they would have, like, you know, 50,000 followers on Instagram. So we're just kind of completely different worlds, but, like, they are, like, killing it and, like, super famous in their world. There were probably two that I had seen, like, come up on my for you page, or they had showed up on Instagram. I stopped one of them on the way out, and she's so freaking sweet. I'm like, hi. Like, I love your content. She. You're so adorable. She's like, oh, who are you? What's your name? Like? And it wasn't offensive, you know, she wasn't trying to be rude or anything. She's just like, like, what? Who are you?

[B]

You're a fan girl.

[A]

I was a fan girl, and it feels good to be a fan girl. And I just felt. I felt very humbled because I was like, man, there is so much work to be done on this Tick Tock app. I was like, there is. So There is. Like, I am not excelling over there. I am irrelevant. And I have. If I wanted to be a tiktoker, like, I am at square one. That's very humbling, you know, And. And then I thought. I also thought there. I'm very insecure because these girls are so vibrant and beautiful, and I just don't think that I could. I think I've. It's past my time.

[B]

Like, you don't have.

[A]

I don't have what it.

[B]

You don't have the edge at this stage in our life. Yes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I've thought about that a lot.

[A]

Yes. And I. I just think I'm too not cool and not. And I'm really not trying to get, like, world's smallest, vital. And, like, I. Like, I'm very confident in who I am, but, like, I just know the vibe that it takes over there, and I don't know if I'm the vibe, and that's okay.

[B]

Well, sometimes I watch, like, the, like, the Alex Coopers and the Alex Earls, and, like, you kind of have to be in this lifestyle of going out to the clubs.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I like, no, it's like three.

[A]

Tick tocks a day, y'all.

[B]

That is so three TikToks a day. But it's their lifestyle. It's like the lifestyle of being in your 20s again. And it's like, let's say, in theory, we wanted to go.

[A]

No, a lot of these girls are moms. Just, you know. I know. That's why I also felt so, like.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, we're screwed.

[A]

I know. They were like, no, that. No, they were. Mom. No. Like, one of the girls I met, she's so freaking cute. I actually just invited her to Stella's birthday party because I want her to be, like, a part of our lives.

[B]

She's like, oh, my gosh.

[A]

No, she's fan.

[B]

Just invited. It's so sweet. She's like, weirdo.

[A]

No, bab. That's how I felt at this thing. Like, people had no idea who I was, what we were doing. Like, they're like, oh, you're on Instagram. Like, cute. Like, you know, they're like, oh. She's like, not on Tik Tok. Like, it was different, but they were really nice about it, you know? They were not. It's just a different world. It would be like me meeting a Facebook influencer I'd be like, cool.

[B]

But this is like. So this is the thing that happens in the entertainment industry is like, you have your moment and then.

[A]

And then nobody cares.

[B]

Yeah. And then a new class comes in.

[A]

The class is coming in.

[B]

The class is for sure coming.

[A]

They're coming in. They're coming in, coming in.

[B]

We. We've known it's been coming in, but, you know, a sobering moment to actually be staring at it.

[A]

No, there it in the face, in the flesh. Beautiful, beautiful eyes, beautiful skin, beautiful hair. But no, I invite. I'm going to invite her, but she had three kids and she's like, blowing up on Tik Tok, like, killing it. And I was like, danny, you have no excuse. Like, literally no excuse.

[B]

What's your content?

[A]

Like a lot of Tick Tock, Day in the life, vlogs, morning routines, hair care. Like, it's just like Instagram stories, but they just package it differently.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

And here's another thing. This was the most frustrating part about going to this event. This is so true. And any millennial is going to, like, so relate with me on this. I went to this event and there were a lot of girls. The only other girls I recognized, but I didn't actually say hi because honestly, I was so tired at the end of the night. You know, I smart that night too. Where the DCC girls, they were all there. Reese was there, the really sweet one. I wanted to say hi to her so badly, but I was like, your girl's gotta go. The worst part about going to this event was there were so many amazing girls that I wanted to follow or I wanted to look them up, but because they don't do Instagram and they don't do Instagram stories, I couldn't stalk them. I could not find them on the app. Yeah, I literally, like, I could not find how. I still don't know half of these girls. I found two of them on Tick Tock just by luck and, like, just because I did so much digging of like, a tag of a tag of a tag of a tag. But Instagram stories, it's so easy because you just, like, go to the location of where the spot was. So it was at the Charles or Mr. Charles. I go to that location and I see everybody that tagged at that location. Or I go to Rare Beauty, I see everybody that was tagged in, like, Instagram stories or reshared. I could not stalk these people because I was not even cool enough to know how to stalk them. The reason I found a third girl is because I Had Jenny, who's like, way younger than me, she stalked him on. She found them on TikTok.

[B]

You know what's so funny, Danny, is that I think this is actually, like, valuable to talk about is you remember when you, like, built your business on YouTube originally and you were, like, going to quit, you were burnout of YouTube because you were like, it's all kind of going Instagram. And then Brighton taught you how to use Instagram, you know, and then you, like, became pretty much an Instagrammer. Do you think that you will, like, pivot to going to TikTok ever, like, repackaging the content in just a different way for TikTok?

[A]

If I had the same energy, I.

[B]

Know it's the energy for me.

[A]

And here's another thing. To me, honestly, it's not even the energy, but it is like this. This dream, you know, like, when I was creating content on YouTube and Instagram, I wanted it so bad that I would give up anything and everything for it. Like, I would give up having friends, I would give up going to the events. I would give up, like, you have to sacrifice. Anybody that's create, that is becoming a content creator knows that you have to sacrifice so much on a daily basis to get those posts up and to create that content. And I just don't know if I have that mentality of sacrifice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like the drive that I feel like I'm missing, and I feel like, because I know that the drive isn't there, I don't know if I'll ever be successful at it because I know that I have to. I feel like there's other things that I would rather have the drive for. But I still, like, sometimes I'm like, oh, should I though? Like, should I go back on that hamster wheel?

[B]

What's also another, like, interesting dynamic for probably people who wouldn't think about this to know is that our business is now built on Instagram. Right. So to go and pivot to TikTok, which would mean that we're not creating content on Instagram stories, which is where our business exists.

[A]

That's what I wonder.

[B]

So we would have to take such a. And they say this a lot. Like, they say the greats always are able to walk backwards.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it's like, like, here's the thing.

[A]

Why do we always have to be great? No, I can't just be good.

[B]

No, I agree. I just think that what's interesting is the dilemma that Instagram are in with TikTok coming in because they have to sacrifice on the business side. And they have to sacrifice on what they know in order to bet on this new platform.

[A]

I want to go into this and I think this is a great first segment to kind of transition into is I want to influence the influencer world world and I want to talk more about Tick Tock versus Instagram. And you know, the one thing that you and I have always seen with Tick Tock is the scrutiny. I have never. I mean, there are girls on there that are going through the ringer.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[A]

I mean, and honestly it's a new girl every week. It's a new account every week. And the gotta feed that beast in, in the.

[B]

That outrage beast.

[A]

And let me tell you why the Tick Tock scrutiny is so much more toxic and harmful to your mental health than Instagram.

[B]

Because those talking heads.

[A]

Talking heads, the talking bed.

[B]

Can you believe that this influencer did this? Let me tell you 10 reasons why this is toxic.

[A]

It's because the content is less thoughtful and less. There's less. There's not as much of a barrier to entry. I think with Instagram it's almost like how like Instagram is almost like you share like your published moments. But Tick Tock is like people are just throwing content, content up. They're posting so many videos a day that it's just like they can kind of share whatever's on their mind in that moment.

[B]

Well, it's the same type of real time that we used to post on stories, but it's in a feed.

[A]

So ours would if disappear if we.

[B]

Screwed up one day. Okay, post over it. Post over it. Okay, it's gone in 24 hours. And then some people might like check it and screenshot it. But this is in feed. It lives forever.

[A]

And if I made a video about like talking crap about, let's just say another influencer or something that would live forever. It's on the feed forever. It's searchable. When people look up that influencer, my video is going to come up on stories, it disappears. Right. Like you're right. So it is because the barrier to entry is so low. People are so quick to jump to conclusions and make cancel videos about other people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So let's just say you have an influencer that lied about xyz. I don't know. I literally am making this up.

[B]

I know what example you're thinking of and I know you want to talk about it, but you can't.

[A]

I honestly, babe, I didn't have one in my head.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

I was like really coming from like a blank slate. But I mean, I can use myself for something. So then you have all these people that are like immediately going to jump on the bandwagon. Now you have 150 to 300 videos calling this influencer out that live on the feed forever. So anytime you go and Google this influencer, it's going to pop up whether these facts are true or not. You know, like, it's always going to be there. And that has to weigh so heavy, like on your mental health, especially if that's your main platform. If it lives there forever and that's your main platform. Like, I don't know, it's got to be really, really hard. So anyway, my question for you is, do you think that Tick Tockers are more or less prepared to deal with scrutiny or cancel culture than we were?

[B]

I think that they are less prepared because I think for us, you almost, like, as a creator, I feel like you have to learn trial by fire. You know, like, we became narrative shapers because we knew we experienced, like, oh, this is what could be misconstrued.

[A]

Oh, you can't be real. So, like be fake. Well, what you're saying.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, more or less. It's like the way I would say it is that I think when you're in the industry long enough, you know how to kind of predict what narratives are going to come from different actions. Right. So it's like, don't show your kids in a car seat because that's going to trigger something. Something. Right.

[A]

I still do that.

[B]

But, you know, don't. It's going to trigger all of the moms that are like, you put this on wrong or this is why you're a terrible mom, or this that children sleeping typically like, is. I saw that too, is not a good one. Well, our kids are a little bit older now, but like, the way you.

[A]

Swaddle your kids, the way you swaddle.

[B]

Your kids, like, you don't you just know what are the trigger points of like, what you just don't go there. Morally righteous people are going to do. I don't think that these Tick Tockers are aware yet. I think they're getting smarter as they go on, like, what to post and what not to post. But I also don't think that the level of scrutiny that we were under, although it felt really high, like I. I have PTSD thinking about what these families, these Tick Tockers are going. Kills my heart in crisis management mode. But what I would say is that it is so the incentive structure of TikTok is they. They. People are looking for something to be outraged by because the. The algorithm prioritizes outrage.

[A]

So do you think when I'm going to bring up Matt Nabi situation. Because that is something where I think it was misconstrued and I actually don't know. Like, they got hate because it seemed like they left their child unattended sleeping on a cruise ship, but that wasn't the case. They had somebody in the room, but it was the way that it was, like, filmed. And I actually didn't keep up enough with it to know, like, everything, but it was just. It was misinterpreted and they actually didn't do anything wrong, but they got canceled like they did. Right. And so my question for you, and this is what I wonder, like, overall, because, you know, they say no, like, no or bad press is still press, like, it's still publicity. And so do you think that these cancellations are actually helping them and helping their brand? Do you think it actually ends up being a good thing because it keeps them relevant?

[B]

Probably, yes, I think it keeps them relevant. But I think that if this was happening to a celebrity, a celebrity, I think is someone who, you know, generally wants to be famous. Right. Like, they're making moves to put themselves in the spotlight to be famous. Right. I think that what these TikTokers were unprepared for, and I think that, to be clear, you can't be in this industry and do it every day and be on the hamster wheel if you don't want some type of recognition. So they wanted a little bit, but I don't think at the same level that like, an A lister wants it. So I think that it's.

[A]

Sometimes I feel like the scrutiny they're experiencing is equal to. It is.

[B]

Is going it 100% is.

[A]

And I feel like it's even worse.

[B]

It's worse.

[A]

It's so personal. From other accounts, when, like, you have, like, People magazine writing about you, you're like, whatever, it's an article. But like, when you have, like, a mom, that's like, I used to love following you, Danny, but, like, now I unfollow you because you're just such a bad influence. Like, that hurts more than, like, a People magazine article.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. Because people who read People magazine, they know what they're reading and why they're reading.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's gossip. Right. This is so personal that I don't think that this helps them. I think that they will continue to grow and be relevant on the Internet. But I think you're going to have some tiktokers who fall off and just don't come back because they're like, the cost of the mental health of our mental health. And what this is doing to our. Raising our children and our family is simply not worth it. And we are fighting this beast of narratives that we will never win.

[A]

Do you think they'll never win? Do you think that when an influencer gets caught up in a scandal, whether they were guilty or not, like, I think of the Matt and Abbey situation with their kids, they weren't guilty. Like, it. It was like, misconstrued. Do you think that brands are unlikely to work with him because they just want to stay out of the drama, or do you think brands are, like, throw themselves at them because they want to be part of the conversation?

[B]

I think brands are smart enough now. Now 2020, I think that brands backed out really quickly. I think now they're smart enough to know that every outrage lasts about a day or two. And then they're, you know, the Internet is on to the next thing. And I think that we're all just as consumers, pretty smart now to know that everything isn't what it seems. Right. So it's not as morally outrageous because it's like, oh, I'm sure that this is a nuanced discussion that we're missing something from. So I don't think that they're going to back out on them. So, like, I don't think their business took a hit the next day or the week or two following. Maybe like a week or two max. But then I think people, I think the brands are probably emailing them and saying, hey, let's just pause and revisit this contract next month.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Versus, hey, we're so disappointed in. You were outraged. Just so you know, here's what we stand for, good parenting, etc. Etc.

[A]

You know, we had brands do that.

[B]

Yeah. That's how brands responded during the. The COVID eras is like, they didn't just cancel your contract. They had to push their. They had to make sure that you understood why they were morally upright and how you were so wrong, which was. It's crazy to look back on.

[A]

Okay, so do you think that OG youTubers like me 10 years ago, do you think that back in the day they were more unfiltered than tiktokers today?

[B]

What do you think you were an OG youtuber?

[A]

I think we were so filtered. Like, I think that YouTube was more like aspirational. Like the morning routines that I have posted on YouTube, I've never actually done one of those. Those routines in my life. Like, they are so perfect to a T. But, like, that's what people wanted. They wanted to see the perfect. Oh, I got out of bed and then I put on my essential oils, and then I light my pumpkin spice latte candle, and then I go to the kitchen and I make this perfect latte with the latte art. And like, that was. It was so unattainable that it was inspirational and aspirational. I also think that, like, even to this day, I talk about this, to this day, it's, like, so cringy for me to watch. Like, I think all my content my entire life has been cringy. Like, even, like, looking back at the content that I. That I put, I'm like, I know one day that my kids are gonna look at these, like, reels that I post and think ultimate cringe. Like, you know, I. And I know that and I've always been okay with that because I'm like, I want to put myself out there and try in like, and make myself, like, uncomfortable. But, like, everything that I've ever posted, I've always felt like, about. Yeah, everything. Even this podcast. I. I can't listen to myself on this podcast.

[B]

No, never, ever.

[A]

Like, I can't listen back. I hate my voice. I hate the way that I look. I hate my mannerisms. I hate. It's horrible. I mean, it's. It's a miracle I have self esteem. It's a miracle.

[B]

Yeah, I. I think that what's. Everything about media is fake to some degree. But it's so crazy because, like, I think that as the Internet's progressed, like, OG YouTube was fake in probably the most fake way because it was like, everything is perfect. Like, everything you just said. Like, here's my perfect latte.

[A]

Well, think about my morning routine. Think about the level of production that we had to go through. Guys, Instagram stories is instant. Like, I don't even think twice when I post an Instagram story. I mean, sometimes I'll re watch it one time just to make sure that there wasn't a naked baby in the background or something. Like, just like, you know, just check for, like, one time. But like, these YouTube videos, you would re watch and edit yourself for seven hours. Okay, seven hours. You're staring at yourself on a screen editing music and product shots and everything. It was so extremely produced. And it wasn't like, anyone's fault. It's just the way that the Internet was at the time that, like, there was no way that it was real. Now there's just so much more. Like I said, the barrier to entry is so low. It's like the democracy. How do you say it? Democracy.

[B]

I can never say this democratization, the.

[A]

Democratization of content creation is. Has really like, it's lowered the standard to be able to enter the content creator industry, but at the same time it's increased the standard of vulnerability, authenticity. Like people expect more realness because it is so much more real. It's so much more real. You can make a TikTok in five.

[B]

Minutes and it's harder to curate, like, fake behavior, right? So like, let's say like Diddy, for example, curated his image over the years, right? Because he would appear on this and appear here and get his paparazzi pictures here. And behind the scenes, publicly, he was presenting one thing. Behind the scenes, privately, he was. Let's just say he's a monster, right? And so, like, it was easy for these A listers to be something totally different publicly than they were privately. YouTube made that harder because then there were more videos out. So, like, more content easier. Like harder, sorry, easier to curate. Now if you're trying to be something that you're not on TikTok and posting three a day, people are going to know. Do you think it was harder to.

[A]

Blow up back then on YouTube?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Here's what I will say about the YouTube days in the early Instagram days is we were getting a lot of views for what we were. You know, a lot of girls were getting millions of views, but there were so few opportunities. So the thing that was like, yes, there weren't as many creators, so it was. I think it was easier to blow up back then because there wasn't as much competition. Like, for example, like at UT, there was only one other YouTuber that I knew of, which was Janine. Oh, yeah, can you imagine that? Like, nowadays there's probably thousands of YouTubers or live in a house together or content creators. There was one other girl that I knew of at ut, and then her and I connected and then we would go live out in LA to work with other YouTubers because there was nobody in Texas, nobody in Dallas at all. And so, yes, I think it was so much easier to blow up. But then you blow up, you get a million views and no brands want to work with you. I've told you so many times about the story. When I tried to reach out to Dermalogica, I was Getting at least 300,000 views per. Per YouTube video at the time, and they would not even send me a free lotion for my face. Like, and I got on a call with them for an hour, and I was like, talking to their head of marketing, and I'm like, please, please, can I just get this free lotion so I can save myself $80 and I'll talk about it and I'll make a whole YouTube video. Just reviewing this one product, and they were like, no, they just didn't see. So you have to realize, like, yes, it was easier to blow up, but nobody was doing anything with those views. And I always Wonder that with TikTok, it just seems so easy to blow up. But, like, what's happening with all the views? Like, you have a million followers on TikTok. And that's why I would like to get to know some of these TikTok girls. I want to be like, what's the business like? Like, they're even signed with some of these agencies that I've never heard of before that only sign Tick Tockers. And I want to know, like, okay, you guys have a million followers. You're getting a hundred thousand views per video. Like, where's the revenue coming from? Are brands really interested? Are you seeing a lot of brand deals coming in? Like, are you. Are you selling on affiliates? Like, that's my biggest curiosity. Because now with the democratization of the hardest word ever to say of content creation, you have so many that I'm like, are there enough opportunities now?

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like, are there enough opportunities? Because there was like, this golden era. Oh, my gosh. It was like the 2016 to the 2019. No, 2017 to the 2019. Where, like, if you were established on. Unlike creator, like you. It was kind of before the Tick Tock era blew up. Like, we were getting all the deals and it was like, brands were like, whoa, we need to put money into creator. The creator economy. Like, go, Go, Influencer, Go this. And they pulled up their stuff, and we were the first ones there. Now we're just one of millions, you know, but it was like this golden era that if you were a part of it was like, whoa, this is amazing.

[B]

I think that there's a class, though, of creators and on Tick Tock that are experiencing that same ride of 2017-2019. Like Avery Woods, Emily Kaiser.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I think that there is a class of them out there that it's like, that is the.

[A]

I'd love to ask them about the.

[B]

Top, you know, 5% that are acquiring probably most of the revenue New.

[A]

Maybe we should have Avery or Emily come on the podcast and like, maybe. I don't know, because, you know, people are sometimes more.

[B]

I feel like we should have Avery because she'll say, well, I don't know.

[A]

But people are more conservative about their. Their business. And I understand.

[B]

I don't know. I think she would say. I think she would say numbers. She would tell us what she paid in taxes. I think she would say everything.

[A]

I mean, maybe. I don't know, but like, that's like her vibe. No, she opens up a lot about personal stuff, but I don't know. That's a very. It's a very sensitive subject. Like finances and business is always. You have to be careful. But I would be. It is really fun when people do open up about it. It makes, to me, I'm like, it makes you so much more real.

[B]

Like, I think that's what people want to know too. It's like, I think we're past the era of like, do influencers make money like everyone knows?

[A]

Or like, but how?

[B]

Like, yeah. Oh, that's the next. Like, how much is like everyone wants to know?

[A]

Well, you saw on the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, Whitney got offered $20,000. Was it to share the vibrator?

[B]

I would have. I thought that that was low.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I really did. I thought that that was. I thought that was. If they got her for 20k to do that, that's a steal, like a.

[A]

Tick tock about it.

[B]

Yeah, I thought that that was a low rate, to be honest, because. Because you're talking about something a little bit more.

[A]

Well, and then it got put on tv, but we don't know the brand, I guess so.

[B]

First of all, I think that that company probably makes so much more money than you ever think.

[A]

They. They post a. They do a lot of brand deals. I see a lot of girls talking about, like, vibrators these days.

[B]

You know what's so interesting is that I think that that was a topic of discussion. And then do you know that influencer, Indie Blue?

[A]

Huh.

[B]

So Indie Blue then did that deal and everyone in her comments was like, yeah, you get that bag instead of Whitney. Because I don't think Whitney actually did the deal. Right. And so. And Indie Blue is a like, right. Like she's not Mormon anymore.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so she took the deal. And that's like, very. I don't know how to explain her brand to you, but, like, that's her brand. That is so her brand. And I was like, that was such a genius move on the brand part, on the brand's part and on indie blues part, it was just genius.

[A]

So I would tend to agree. I'm looking at Whitney's TikTok and she's averaging about 2 million, maybe 2.5 million, maybe even more now that I'm scrolling. Maybe average is 3 million views per video. I mean, 17 mil, 5 mil, 7 mil, 9 mil, 6 mil. Yeah. So for them to be paying 20 grand, like I would expect for a brand partnership, if you're going to be getting 7 million views, I would say a hundred thousand dollars.

[B]

That's what I. I would have said. A hundred would have been like starting. And now she was. It was. It was also talked about on a reality TV show. So if I was in the brand shows, I. I would have probably paid double that.

[A]

They didn't share the brand, though.

[B]

Oh, that's true.

[A]

If you've heard of Ozempic or Wegobi, you've probably heard three things. They're effective, but they're expensive and they're hard to get. That's where RO comes in. I've had family members that have used Ozempic or something of that nature. It has changed their life. I follow a podcast. You guys know the toast. Claudia Ashray, who's used Ozempic and it has changed her life. So although I don't have personal experience, I think it's really great how it's helped a lot of people. We've talked about as epic here on the podcast as. It took the Internet by storm and proved to help so many of those in need. But with the heightened awareness of GLP1s and what they can do for people who are overweight, it became harder to access. That's where Robody comes in. We're huge fans in this house of getting medical care and support you need. Conveniently, through RO, you can access prescription compounded GLP1s with the same weight loss ingredient as brand name GLP1s at a fraction of the cost. RO has compounded GLP1s in stock. Now you can get it in one to four days. If you qualify. RO members have support throughout the process. If eligible for medication, patients have access to their provider on demand for any questions and you can see if you qualify from the comfort of your own home. This means no scheduling a doctor's appointment, no commute to the doctor's office, and no waiting rooms, which may eliminate a barrier for someone. A GLP one can help if prescribed. Your medication ships directly to you in one to four days. Go to Ro Co Dani. The membership start at just $99 for your first month. Medication costs are separate. That's R. Co Dani to learn more, go to ro.comslsafety for black box warning and full safety information. Compounded medication is not required to and does not receive FDA review or approval. RX only. Here's my question though, for a lot of these tiktokers. So let's just say Divi paid $100,000 for a TikTok from Whitney. I'm curious how they're converting. I feel like people like, okay, let's not talk about her personally. Like, let's just talk about somebody that has 7 million followers, I feel, or 7 million views per video. Do you feel like they would convert in the same way that like a really strong Instagrammer would?

[B]

No, I've, I've heard the, the rumor mill that I've heard. People will love this.

[A]

See, I want to talk to a brand that's done this.

[B]

So there's a, there's a influence tick tock couple out there.

[A]

There's quite a few of those. So we have no hints, but.

[B]

Yeah, no hints. I'm not gonna say names like. And I also don't think it's their fault. I think it's just the way the platform works. Like, but they had, let's call it 4 million views on a video. There was a sponsored deal and I think it sold four units.

[A]

I don't believe that.

[B]

I think it's true. I really do because we.

[A]

No, I don't believe that. I want to talk to a brand and I want to talk to an influencer also.

[B]

Babe, we are a brand. We spend money on.

[A]

Yeah, but we don't, we don't pay like a hundred thousand dollars for a tick tocker.

[B]

No, you're. Yeah, you're right.

[A]

So we don't know. I'm so scared. That's a lot to invest in someone.

[B]

Here's what I. So here's what I think is going to end us though.

[A]

We just try one.

[B]

Here's gonna be the end of the.

[A]

We should try one Influencer. I mean, you with Divi. What's like the craziest thing that you've seen when you reach out to influencer without saying names? Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Jordan, if you share people's names, that would be so bad.

[B]

Babe, I'm an arbiter of truth. No, I'm here to serve our audience.

[A]

Just so you guys, no one else.

[B]

I will go down to my reputation.

[A]

No, just serve the truth. No, just so you guys know that's why we make a great team. Because I would never ever, ever, ever let you do that. Okay, that's some, that's somebody else's business. Absolutely not.

[B]

Okay. Well the craziest one that I've heard is it's so hard without sharing names. I've heard rates of 500k, I'll say that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know, premier top of class tiktokers. Tik tok is 500k. Half a million dollars for a Tik Tok. It's crazy.

[A]

I want to know they converted though now typically.

[B]

So what people need to understand is there's so many nuances in this business. Like if you are a tiktoker or a creator, I'm just going to say creator that is making 500k or a million for a brand deal. You are probably only doing one or two of those a month which means that you are saying no, no, no, no. And it's creating a demand for sponsorships that only the brands that can pay that are going to pay that.

[A]

Yeah, but you have to be creating content also that's getting, that's driving those views.

[B]

True. But it's a strategy, right? So like you can go and say, hey, I'm going to make $1 million a month, let's say off of two brand deals. And then there's other creators that make a million dollars a month by taking 40 brand deals.

[A]

That's why it's so nuanced when people are like how much influencers make it.

[B]

Just like it's so different.

[A]

So different. And honestly you could have some like I know for a fact that some of the highest like sellers on LTK have like 200,000 followers.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And they're making millions a year because they're converting. They're working 10 times harder than the girl that's just doing two brand deals a month. Like so it's so nuanced and like also there's this whole other side of, of being creator this these days where you're really just creating UGC user generated content to give to brands so that they can run ads with your, with your videos. Like that was like a big thing for me when I first started making YouTube videos. A lot of times they just wanted me to make YouTube videos for their channels or for them so they could use the videos. And I was like, I'm an influencer. But like no one was buying what I was selling. No one was really watching what I was selling. It was just, I was, it was like the really smart and savvy Brands that I was creating content for. Yeah, this. And so that's always so smart. I saw this girl I follow, Britney, I want to say her name is Brittany Hennessy. Britney. I don't know. She wrote that book that, it's called like the Influencer or something. Remember? That was like really monumental for me. This was like back in like 2017. Anyway, she made a post and she was like, if you want to start making X amount per year as an influencer, this is what you do. You reach out to two brands a month. No, two brands a year, sorry. And you commit, you commit them to a 12 month contract where you create one video for them per month that they can use in ads for that month and you, you charge them $2,500 and you do it for two brands. So you're making $5,000 a month just from two videos that you're making that they run ads on. And I think that equaled like a hundred thousand dollars a year.

[B]

Yeah, I mean that's a really good tip. That's a really good tip for like anyone in the audience. Because I think that speaking as Divi, like there's such a need for $60,000.

[A]

That was really off.

[B]

There's such a need for that type of content, like because most brands don't know how to create this in house.

[A]

That's what her point is, that brands don't have the capabilities or the time to get all of this user generated content. So you come in and you become like your own business and create videos for them and then let them run ads. We would pay somebody to do that for Divi.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Especially if the content is good like and it's real and it's like authentic like a hundred percent. That's exactly what we're looking for.

[B]

Let me end this topic on one thing. I think that the creators that are about to be making the most in the entire industry are the Tick Tockers that figure out how to blend Instagram affiliate. So like the style of like try on hauls and things like that with Tick tock shop links. I saw and I. This is a compliment. So like who's the. They call her Titi. Tatiana. Tiana. Tiana Tiana Robillard. Okay.

[A]

Why is it not. Oh yeah, yeah.

[B]

Okay. Tiana Robillard.

[A]

So Robillard.

[B]

Is that how you say Rod? Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's a really fun last name.

[B]

She. So I don't like, I. It was the first time it ever clicked and she probably didn't even like. I don't think this was strategic. So.

[A]

But she, she came from the Instagram world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so she also. Fun fact, she did UGC for Divi. Like.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah. And then, I mean, she blew up now. So she was just.

[A]

We did a giveaway like last week.

[B]

Yeah. So she was wearing these like, camo pants. Okay. And she posted a TikTok in her feed and was like, hey, guys, like, I've gotten so many questions about these camo pants. Like, it was very nonchalant. She was very chill about it. And she was like, I'm linking it here if you guys want to buy it. Great. And then I went and clicked the link. This is like three hours after she posted it. And the pants were sold out.

[A]

What pants?

[B]

What? What I realized was, oh, my gosh, like in the same way that you and all of your kind of niche of influencers post these like, LTK links, people are going to figure out how to make commission off of TikTok shop and because it has so much reach and so many views and stop making money. They're going to be absolutely.

[A]

Alex Earl would just do that every video.

[B]

I do not know why these big tiktokers don't post on Tik Tok Shop. I don't know the culture around it. I think the culture is like, ooh, it's ick. Like it's so salesy. And so I think that the audience is kind of policing that behavior right now. But once the influencers kind of standardize it as the norm, it is going to open up an incredible amount of.

[A]

Luck that I feel like people, the. The new influencer doesn't realize. They don't realize is the conversion, they're.

[B]

Taking the flat fees right now. But they do not understand that, like when you start running your business off of commission and affiliate like you, you.

[A]

Don'T even have to run your business off of it. But like, if you are getting questions about something a lot and you wear it a lot and then you share it in one TikTok, like you're going to probably make more than you would make off of a brand deal. And the other thing is you get. You have control over what you want to share. You don't. You're not being paid to share anything. You get to actually share what you like. Which is like the most empowering part about affiliates is that I can share anything I want as long as it's on LTK or Amazon or some shop my whatever, I can buy whatever. And that's why I think there's so much Trust with a lot of fashion bloggers, like these mommy fashion bloggers, like in our bubble is because what our girls are sharing, like what Krista Horton is sharing or generated sharing, they are buying it. Like they're not being sent what they're. They're sharing for the most part. Like, yes, there's some product that they might be being sent. But like, these girls are going out to Target and they're buying their clothes and then they're sharing what they like. And it's so much more authentic than like a brand deal where, you know, Target sent me seven outfits and like, that's, that's the type of person I want to shop is like, oh, they went out and bought it themselves, you know, so that will be really interesting. Sometimes I just feel like they don't know.

[B]

They don't know. They're figuring it out.

[A]

If you're a big tick tock or Alex girl, if you're listening to this video, we're about to change your life. You listen to this podcast?

[B]

No, I think tt. I think she's gonna figure it out first.

[A]

She's. She's just.

[B]

She was. She was trained.

[A]

I love her. I really do. We should have her on the pod. Moving on. I. I do want to de influence something else. I think we should de influence chat GPT for a second. It did do us kind of dirty the other day.

[B]

Are you talking about with your gallstones?

[A]

Yes. You guys, I. You should see how I'm sitting right now. I'm in so much pain these days. I'm only 26 weeks. I'm 26 weeks today.

[B]

You look like a tired teacher. You're just fed up with your kids.

[A]

You guys aren't listening. I'm just going to sit in silence until they all start or they stop talking. Yeah. So I'm 26 weeks today. I'm one week away from my third trimester. So congratulations to me. Thank you. Thank you. I really need to start doing my weekly chiropractor appointments. So we had an odd thing happen the other night. So I, you know, we should honestly save my health journey for like another podcast. We go down that. But like, I have not been healthy for about a year or two.

[B]

Going on two.

[A]

Going on two. We can talk about that a whole another time.

[B]

She's had the flu six times this year.

[A]

Six times? Seven, actually. In the span of 12 months. I've had the flu eight times, bronchitis once and Covid once. So I have almost strep. How many times strep, I think was Always the flu, though. We thought it was strep.

[B]

Oh, got it.

[A]

Yeah. And when I say I had the flu, like, I tested positive for the flu. So anyway, we'll save that episode for another time.

[B]

We figure it out.

[A]

So then last week, you know, Jordan and I, we had a lovely evening doing the same thing we always do, which is putting the kids to bed, eating while I stand up.

[B]

Here's what we actually do every. Every night. Let me just clarify. We put the kids to bed, and then we say, let's watch a show. And then we spend a good solid 25 minutes scrolling through shows, and Danny looks every single one of them up on Rotten Tomatoes. And then she's like, I think we should watch the Penguin on hbo because it has a hundred percent. And then we turn on the penguin. Don't interrupt me. We turn on the penguin, and then Danny gets on her phone, and we're 20 minutes into the show, and Danny's like, so, what's going on? And I explain what's going on. And then she goes, I'm just really. I'm not really liking this show. And then I go upstairs and I play my video game and Danny turns on some weird reality TV show.

[A]

It's not weird. It's Housewives of Salt Lake City or Love is Blind.

[B]

And then we reconnect in bed. And that. Then we repeat that every night. We never. We never have truly made it through watching a show.

[A]

Let me tell you, I have watched two phenomenal shows without you. One of them.

[B]

I know. So I'm saying I don't think you actually like to watch shows with me.

[A]

Because honestly, you are. You're just so critical.

[B]

I'm open minded to anything. No, you're not critical of your trash reality tv.

[A]

I. But here's the thing. I just watched a show on Apple with. Was that really funny. Talk about Vince Vaughn. Vince Vaughn. Oh, my God. Bad monkey. Great show. Loved it. I wanted you to watch it with me, and you're like, no, no, no. You won't even give it a shot. So at least I give things a shot. And I. I try to see it there. And then I'm like, I don't like it. You just won't even go there. And you really missed out.

[B]

You also won't stay on our pace either. Like, you will, like, watch shows Avenger while you, like, do your makeup. And so we get on two different timelines. I actually, this is a marital conflict for most people.

[A]

I think it's okay.

[B]

I mean, it's really like a It's a. It's a difficult thing to navigate.

[A]

I watched Bad Monkey with Vince Vaughn. So good on Apple tv. I loved it. And then what's that other movie that I really like? Oh, this was the movie that we. We watched when I got my gallstones. What was it called? Oh, something Texas. Leroy Texas.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. It is so, like, my type of movie, which. It's kind of funny because I know I look like a very jovial, happy gal, but I like some dark tv. Like, I like when things kind of give me the spook, but without being evil or horror. I like, like, thriller. Nothing too bloody, but, like. Just like a murder mystery. Some kind of leaves. I like when things are filmed kind of a weird way, this movie. Leroy Texas. If you're looking for something to watch with your spouse and you're looking to be a little freaked out and, like, looking for, like, a kind of a weird movie, it's. I loved it. Anyway, so that was the night that I. We got in bed, and we did watch a show together. We were watching Leroy. It had, like, 100 on rotten tomatoes. And I laid down because we were gonna watch and go to bed, and I started to get really bad heartburn. And you guys know when you're pregnant, you get heartburn. It feels like you're drinking acid, essentially. Like, it just. Just burns really bad. And I've had heartburn pregnant before, so was in a lot of pain. And, you know, you took. They tell you, like, drink a glass of milk, eat some almonds, so I. And don't lay down. So I just started walking around, and it got worse and worse. So then the pain started to transfer from the front, like, in between, like, my. Like, my breastbone to the middle of my back. So it transferred from there to there. And then it kind of clenched up my shoulders. Like, my shoulders were really tight. And I just kept walking around. I'm like, babe, this is actually really bad. Like, you need to go get some Tums. And by this point, it's like, midnight, because I had been in pain for probably 45 minutes. Then, like, it's getting to the point where it's almost, like, as painful as, like, a contraction. Like, where it's, like, unbearable but different part of your body. Like, contractions are lower back. This was just like a heart. It almost felt like a heart attack. And it would come on and feel like a heart attack, and then it would go away. And then it started moving. The pain started moving to my abdomen, like, right below my rib cage. And like, would burn there. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is not good. And so then we're probably like an hour and a half in and I'm like, up against the wall. Like, I'm moaning from the pain. Like, like Jordan's like, do we call 91 1? I'm like, no, it's just heartburn, babe. It's being pregnant, you know. And that night I had had spicy soup. Remember spicy soup? And the sparkling water for dinner in a cookie, maybe two. And so I. Which is just like an average night for me. Okay. And so then I am not. I lose my, like, ability to stand kind of. And I start not hyperventilating, but my heart starts racing. Like, and then I tell Jordan, I'm like, bring the bowl. And I just throw up. File throw up, Throw up, Throw up. Like, throw up. Probably the most I've thrown up in probably 10 years and. Because when I throw up, usually it's just like a little bit and it's like food, usually. Sorry, this is disgusting. But like, if you really want to know my, my body habits also, let me tell you, I have a stomach of steel and I don't throw up. Like, I just don't. I can't remember the last time I did.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so I'm like, that's not normal. So. But I feel so much better. I'm like relieved after. I'm like, oh my gosh, it's away. This indigestion's just been horrible. And still join, like, do we call 91 1? So I'm like, babe, no. So we start getting on ChatGPT and we're like, looking up and we're like, man, this is just really bad heartburn, indigestion. Sometimes it can be so painful that you throw up. And we're looking through all the things. What do we do? Drink glass of milk, eat almonds, get Tums.

[B]

We're actually like, we use the advanced voice mode.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

ChatGPT. So we were actually like talking to it like it was a doctor. And it would be like, okay, I.

[A]

Got it, I got it. It's like you're having a severe heartburn. At one point it did mention the gallbladder, but I was like, nah, nah, there's no way. And so what would happen though, throughout this, like two hour period or two and a half hour period is I would do the same thing. So I would. Then I'd be like, oh, I feel better. Then I get back in bed and sit up straight. And then the heart would Hurt in the back and stomach. And then I'd have to get up and I throw up all over again. And then I'd be like, oh, I feel so much better. And it happened. I think it happened like, three or four times. And so by that time, when you throw up hard like that, you're exhausted. Like, you're. You feel like you just went through a workout. Like, you are, like, physically. Like, your abs hurt because of, like, how hard it is. And so then I, like, get on stories the next day, and I talk about it. And literally, like, the DMs roll and people like, hun, this was a gallbladder. You have gallstones. Yeah, gallbladder attack. Gallstones, Gallstones. This happened to me. Pregnant gallstones. This is not indigestion. This is not normal.

[B]

At one point, I asked chat GPT. I go, do you throw up a gallstone?

[A]

I don't even know what a gallstone is still. I'm still confused about it. But so then everybody's telling me, you know, you got to go on the gallbladder diet. Oh, by the way, mean. Meanwhile, we're flying to Princeton the next day, and I still have the heartburn, but it's not so bad. But I. I messaged my doctor. She gets back to me in, like, five minutes on a Sunday. Like, bless her heart, she usually doesn't do that, but. And she was like, yeah, this was probably. This sounds like gallstones. It sounds like you had a gallbladder attack. Next time it happens, just go to the emergency room or call labor and delivery. And so since that day that that happened, which I don't know, that was about a week ago, I have had the same thing happen three times. But it's not been as bad. But every time it's happened. Like, yesterday, I got uberly confident and I had French fries. Okay, I'm gonna be honest. I'm gonna French fries. And I had chick fil a for lunch because I thought I'm. I gotta have, like, the simple joys in life. And I died again. We went to the Steve Houghton's book launch, and I was dying there. Like, I was having the heart contractions again. And so now I'm just realizing that I cannot eat unhealthy healthy. I cannot eat any fatty foods now or fried food, or I will die. Like, it hurts so bad that it is the one thing that will get me to stop eating Chick fil A. Like, I am not having Chick fil A again this whole pregnancy. I can't. I lit. It hurts so Bad that, like, it triggers it. And so now they said to go on the Mediterranean diet. Like, I think I'll still have chips and stuff. Maybe not. I'll have tortilla chips. Not potato chips maybe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes, some siete. So those healthy, healthy chips, like, but I really cannot have fried food anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah. Anyway, my point with that was chat GPT really led us astray.

[B]

It did. But I want to give it credit. It was really there for me, though.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I was like, I asked a lot of questions. I was just scrolling through my chat history. I was like, I. I really treated it like a person or a doctor. I was like, oh, no, she's throwing up bile.

[A]

What to do then?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it was really there for me.

[A]

It was really intense. Oh, I didn't tell you what I did either. The bad part. What? When I was throwing up.

[B]

Oh, yeah, no, you told me. I was there.

[A]

They tell them.

[B]

Yeah, they need to know.

[A]

It's pretty bad. I was throwing up so bad that I peed myself.

[B]

She was really frustrated. You were like, just peed myself.

[A]

But guys, it wasn't like a little pee pee. Like, I, like, I peed a full. Like, on the ground.

[B]

Yeah. I asked chatgpt that too. I go, oh, no, she's peeing now. And it said that was normal during pregnancy.

[A]

It was such a hard throw up that I had to pee myself and I had to go clean it up. It looked like a dog had peed on the ground.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, Lola's probably peed there.

[A]

So probably not a big deal. So that's the glamorous life of being pregnant. And if it's not, then it's probably good birth control. For any of you youngins out there, do you want to pee yourself in front of your boyfriend? Husband?

[B]

So to end the podcast, I think you should tell the funny story that you were telling that we were talking about this morning.

[A]

Okay. So something that you're going to realize if you work with young people, these gen zers, if I may. Well, okay, no, actually, let me take that back. Something that we're always trying to work on on the Danny Austin team is professionalism. It's hard because. Look at me.

[B]

Circles down from the top.

[A]

It circles down from the top.

[B]

Literally yesterday our. Our content person came over and she goes, she came up to my office and she was like, is Danny okay? And I was like, I think so. Why? And she was like, I've been here an hour. And she's like. And I was like, oh, she's probably asleep. And I literally went downstairs, woke Danny up, held her hand, and I said, here's your star. And Danny's hair was, like, upside down and, like, disheveled.

[A]

I'm pregnant.

[B]

It was cute.

[A]

She was a girl who. Who helps me film reels. And she had been here for an hour. But see, what happened was I did my makeup, and then I felt really tired, so I laid down for a second, and then I just. And then the next thing I know, Jordan's in my room. So. Yeah. So anyway. But it reminded me of a story of my lack of professionalism when I was. What was I? Probably 23, 24. And a lot of you guys don't know this, but Jordan used to be my boss.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

Jordan also fired me from my first real job.

[B]

True. No regrets. You were terrible employee.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Great founder, great entrepreneur. Terrible employee.

[A]

No. Some would say I was just too good.

[B]

You're right. You were terrible at playing the politics of a company, for sure. That's because you don't believe in them.

[A]

No, I do believe in them. I just was inexperienced, and I didn't know better, and I didn't understand because I had always worked for myself. So, you know, back in the day when I was a YouTuber, I made no money, and so I had to get side gigs. And then there was this point where I had to get a real job. And so I became the social media. I don't know. Coordinator. I didn't know what my title was. Yeah, basically, I was doing social media for Jordan's startup that he was the chief marketing officer for that he helped me get the job for. And so they were based in San Antonio. I would drive back and forth if I had to go into the office, but I really worked from. I basically just helped set up, like, social media campaigns and got influencers talking about their product, which was a wearable. And so there was this point where I. They're wearable. I was so expensive compared to, like, the Apple Watch or Fitbit or any of the competitors out there. I think Kate Spade had something at the time that, you know, remember those wearables? It was all the rage back then. And so I was like, man, I want this company to do really great. Like, if I'm gonna be, like, selling something, I need to believe in it myself. And the product was great. The price was just so. Well, the product actually wasn't that great. It was okay. And so, like. But it was pretty, you know? And so I was like, I really need this team, is all Men. I'm like, somebody's got to tell them that their product doesn't do what an Apple Watch does, yet it's triple the price. Like, there's something wrong with that, right? Like, you know, it's just, like, logic. And so I made this presentation where, like, I literally made, like, a PowerPoint. Okay. And I made this presentation about, like, the competitive advantages, what we were lacking, where we sat in the market and compared us to the Apple Watch and everything that the Apple Watch did versus what Kate Spades did. What. Which are what ours did. Ours was the lowest of the spectrum in terms of capability. The whole thing was like. They were like, but we have a patent on sending signals through metal. And I'm like, nobody cares. And the app socked. And it. Not only that, but it was like, $400. And I was like, no one is going to pay $400 when the Apple Watch is 399 and does, you know, 250, whatever. 259. And does literally a million things more. Like, it's just common sense, you know, So I. But I really was like, I am going to go in there and show proof because, you know, I love proof.

[B]

And I like giving Gen Z intern vibes.

[A]

I know, I know, I know. So I. Here's the other thing that's so funny. Like, I look back, like, I have never had, like, a professional wardrobe. Like, even when I intern for my. My manager back in la, Like, I have always worn, like, a dress with cowboy boots into the office. Like, like I've never dressed professionally. I'm learning how to now. Like, when I speak on, like, a Forbes or JP Morgan thing. Like, I. I have to. But, like, your girl never had to wear workwear. You know, Ann Taylor, who that. You know. So I drive and I remember I was wearing this, like, floral maxi dress, you know, And I have this whole presentation. I sit down with our chief operating officer. Yeah, he was ex military, so that was something I probably should have taken into consideration. And I am just like, I'm about to change this guy's like, blow this guy's mind. So I sit down and I give him my whole presentation. I probably talk for an hour. And I. Let me tell you one thing. I am so right about everything I'm saying.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, hindsight. Danny was right about everything.

[A]

I was right about everything. And I was like, I'm like, at least if you're gonna be what you are in the market, at least be com. Like, competitive with your price. Like, make your price like a hundred bucks 99. I like, let me tell you, the whole meeting went phenomenal. Like, and he's asking me questions and I'm replying and he's like sitting there, but he didn't really talk much, you know. And so I get in the car after, you know, driving from San Antonio, Austin, I called Jordan. I'm like, I'm like, babe, you know, we're dating at the time. So I'm trying to, like, impress him to him. Like, that meeting went amazing. I was like, I killed it. I was like, I had all my points. I was so, like, self set. Like, not self centered. But I was so concerned about how I performed. I didn't care about how he received it. And I was like, I did so great. Like, I was amazing in this meeting and I didn't ever really think about what he was thinking. And so then apparently I heard and Jordan didn't say anything. You were so, like, supportive, you were like.

[B]

No, I was like, oh, I believe you. I believe it went great.

[A]

No, but then like a week later, you.

[B]

No, no, no. Like 30 minutes after.

[A]

Okay, okay. So then what happened?

[B]

30 minutes after you call me, I get a call and he's like, and.

[A]

This is your boss?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, pretty much. Like, he's like, I don't know who your little girlfriend thinks she is, but she doesn't believe in our company or our product whatsoever. And he's like, I am so appalled.

[A]

Like, the way I talk to him, apparently.

[B]

The way that she thought she could come in here and do this.

[A]

And I thought I saved the company. Yeah, I literally thought, I said.

[B]

And he was like, I mean, I'm not going to say fire her, but, like, I don't really know why she's even here, basically. And he wasn't wrong either. I mean, yes, he was. No, no, he wasn't wrong about, like, if you don't believe in it that much, like, why would you be here?

[A]

Because I was trying to help. No, I believed in it. I believed in it so much that I don't want to be associated with crap. Like, I want to be associated with greatness. And like, like, no, I do. And like, you guys, what you guys are doing, like, you're a bunch of men. You have no idea what you're talking about. The product was way too bulky. It was way too expensive. No one's gonna buy this. And here's the thing that my job is, I'm supposed to go sell it to influencers. I'm supposed to go sell it to people and try to get people to sell it. Nobody was buying what I was selling because I didn't believe it in myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I was like, we need to fix the product and then I can go out and sell it, like, when I believe in it. And, like, that's one thing about me. I've never been able to get behind things that I don't believe in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that looks. That makes me look bad. Like, you're ruining my reputation. So. And so this was my issue. And so. But he just did not want to hear it. And I understand the politics and I understand maybe I should have navigated differently, but that doesn't mean I was wrong.

[B]

Yeah. No. I learned a lot from that whole experience. Experience too, because, you know, eventually the company went down, like six months later. They ran. They ran out of funding, like no one.

[A]

Because they kept just raising money and raising money and putting a band aid on a bullet hole, which the bullet hole was the product. It just wasn't good.

[B]

The. The three things that you taught that you taught me that my. That our intern taught us. No, the three things I learned about you being right was number one is product is everything. Like, you can't fix a bad product with good marketing.

[A]

And what did I do?

[B]

I actually did feel like I. We did good on the marketing side. I was very proud of.

[A]

Okay. Yes. On the, on the very top layer.

[B]

Yeah. That's what I'm saying is like, flash of like, putting it on the sex appeal. The sex appeal number two that I learned was there's just something about, like, needing females in the room if it's going to be an all male company.

[A]

Wait, a product that is for female. Created by all males, Designed by all males.

[B]

Yeah. It's like, I will never do that again. Like, if I ever walked into a company that was selling a product to females that had no females, I'd be like, red flag. Yeah. Like, this is not smart. And then number three was that I think I just learned a lot about the word salad in corporations. It's like, man, you know, you can kind of like, you can con your way through, like these titles in these roles. But, like, I think that if you. You can really tell very quickly the people who actually know what they're doing and the people who have no idea what they're doing and are just kind of like, it's saved us a lot.

[A]

I think, in divi and with ourselves is not getting caught up in like this prestigious title. It's like, who cares? Like, what is actually going on?

[B]

No, I mean, we'll hire someone who has way less experience, but we believe that they can, like, like, actually get things done.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Versus someone who has all these fancy titles and went to Harvard and did this and did that.

[A]

I mean, the main thing that I learned from that experience was like, you know, you see, like, on Shark Tank or you see all these startups fundraising, and I thought to myself, I remember when I worked there, I said, I never, ever, ever want to, like, be a part of a business again or. Or start my own business that is backed by anybody's funds or backed by, like, I want to grow organically. Like, I would rather be selling, making bracelets in my bedroom and grow to the point where I'm successful than have a bunch of money thrown at me and then not know where this true issue is. Because what I learned through that experience was anytime that they were, like, they were struggling, they would just go raise more money, raise more money, raise more money. And it was just so for me, sitting there as, like, someone that would actually buy the product myself, I'm like, you guys are missing the fort. Like the forest through the trees. Like, there is. The issue is your product. The issue is, like, what you're creating, and you just keep throwing more money at. It's like a money pit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so that's when we launched Divi, I was like, I don't want. Even my parents were like, well, invest. I was like, no, I don't want anybody's money. I want to be able to just, like, grow it organically.

[B]

I think there's, like, a lot. There's like a whole culture around, like, the. The startup scene or the tech startup scene. And that experience, like, actually got me out of it because I realized that so many startups are just thinking raising money, and it's like a game of raising money and using other people's money that, like, you're better off being outside of that culture.

[A]

But I'm not saying that you never take other people's money. Like, I'm totally into investors.

[B]

Once you've figured out your model.

[A]

Well, no, but once you figure out where the money is needed. Yeah, And. And like, you don't try to grow too fast. Like, it. It's okay to only do a hundred thousand revenue the first year and then 200 and then 300, like, you don't need to be doing. In fact, I feel like a lot of companies fail because they have such, like, this huge surge, and then the next three or four years, they don't know how to maintain their surge. And it's like, you have a problem that money can't fix. It's probably your product. It's maybe whatever it is. And so anyway, that was just, like, a funny story because I. It's. It's. It's. It's very hard for me when I have to set that standard of professionalism because I never really, like, had it, but I need to, and I do have it in the divi world, you know how professional I am. But also, I just stay out.

[B]

But, like, okay, let's take. Let's say these are. Let's say they can be both. But, like, let's say there's professionalism and then there's scrappiness. I think you've built a really good scrappy culture and environment. And, like, I mean, our team. Like, if we told our team that we wanted to launch a monster truck out of AT T Center next week, they could figure.

[A]

They could figure it out, and they would. But I. I do try to set. I think the one thing that the team would probably. My personal team would say about me is, like, I do try to set somewhat standard of professionalism in terms of, like, not texting after five or, like, not working on the weekends. Like, I try. It's not perfect. I'm not perfect at it, but I try really hard to respect those boundaries. So there are things that, like, I feel like I do. I do.

[B]

Well, yeah, we've gotten better.

[A]

I don't feel like my employees are, like, I could be wrong, but I don't feel like people are, like, feel, like, overworked. Maybe they do, but, like, well, one.

[B]

Of them's right there. How she. What are her vibes?

[A]

I mean, like. But I. I hope that. And I hope that if they ever do feel overworked, like, there's that point of communication where we figure it out. You know what I mean?

[B]

But also, like. I mean that some of that is not even your call anymore.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

You know, like, there's layers of leadership.

[A]

Now where it's like, I'm just the talent.

[B]

No, that's like, we both are. It's like we're. Our hands are kind of clean in our ecosystem.

[A]

Yeah. I don't lead our team anymore, which is great.

[B]

Like, if you're overworked, it's like, that sounds like a problem for the CEO, and that is not either of us, so.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

We are fun.

[A]

We're just like, the fun mom and dad that could be like, what's going on? What's this cuddle?

[B]

But we didn't fire Danny in that experience. We. We just said, why don't you go do something else for a little while?

[A]

Yeah, you did kind of let me down.

[B]

Yeah, easy. We let you down really easy.

[A]

It's like you were. Now that I know you were, like, manipulating me a little bit.

[B]

Well, I mean, I loved you, so I didn't want this job to come in between us. I was just like, hey, why don't you just like, why don't you go over here?

[A]

What did I end up doing after that? Oh, I remember.

[B]

What?

[A]

I don't want to say.

[B]

The jewelry thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, that was.

[A]

I mean, I did a lot of, like, consulting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it was like, not like I made like a squarespace website for, like, a startup, another startup, like, stuff like that. Anyway, so this has been fun. I think it's time to wrap because I really have to same. We want to give a shout out to Florida. We're praying for everyone. I honestly cannot imagine what it's like. Just even evacuating and leaving, like, your home and everything that you've known has to be so, so scary. So we're keeping Florida in our hearts. We're gonna put the link if you guys want to donate. We've donated to some of our favorite organizations. We'll put the link for you guys in Spotify. We love you, Florida. You guys have also been loving our social clips. We post a lot on D Influence on Tick Tock and Instagram, so make sure that you follow us. Over on D Influence podcast. We have some really fun guests that are going to be coming, so we're excited for you guys to check them out on all of our platforms too. And drop a comment on Spotify, YouTube or Instagram or Tick Tock if there's a conspiracy theory that you want Jordan and I to cover. I heard one about C sections the other day that I really want to dive into. It's wild. I'm thinking maybe for like, or Halloween episode we'll just do like, like, flat out conspiracy theories and go through a bunch of them. But we love you guys and we'll talk to you later. Bye.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

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