B (2:04)

Because it's such a short flight. So they're like, yeah, we're not even going to bother.

A (2:06)

We're not even going to stand up like you're on your own.

B (2:08)

You're on your own. I was like, I'm starving.

A (2:10)

Yeah. You know I went to ut. You did?

B (2:13)

So you lived in Austin?

A (2:14)

Yes, I lived in Austin for about seven years. Where do you live in Austin?

B (2:19)

We're in like west of downtown.

A (2:21)

Okay.

B (2:22)

So we're. I'm obsessed with our neighborhood. There's like so many families and then you can get to downtown in like 10 minutes. I'm so jealous.

A (2:29)

I'm obsessed with. It's like my favorite city.

B (2:31)

Is it?

A (2:31)

Do you miss it all the time? I would, but I mean it has changed a lot. Like, I would probably go more in like the hills of Austin so that you're close to Austin. But like I always envisioned myself being like one of those moms, like running on the. On the, on the trails. On the trails.

B (2:47)

Yeah, I know, I know. It's like so active. The restaurants are so good because we came from la, which was like I was obsessed with all the food there in la and so I was like, ah, it's gonna be a bummer to go to Austin. Like the food isn't gonna be as good as it is in la. I've been so pleasantly surprised with the food in Austin. The restaurants in Austin are amazing.

A (3:08)

Yep. Well, it's, it's becoming like a little LA kind of. It is, it is, yeah. I mean it's very innovative. Very like granola. That's why I liked it is cuz it felt like very fresh and it was, it wasn't like the rest of Texas.

B (3:21)

It's really not.

A (3:22)

It's.

B (3:22)

It's like its own little thing and it does have like a lot of cool things that LA has but without some of the bad things that LA has. Like it's, it's active, you know, the weather obviously can't be compared but.

A (3:34)

Well, what, like, why did you move to Austin?

B (3:36)

We. Well, we're from Kansas actually we only live in LA for two years and I got pregnant and we were, we were house hunting, we were living in Venice and we loved living in Venice, but not the most family friendly. And so we were house hunting and we were just quickly realizing like we want to be closer to family. We just want to be in more of like a neighborhood with like great schools. And my business is in, is in Texas, so my employees work in, in Austin as well. So it was kind of like all of the things together that made.

A (4:09)

Oh, and Austin is so much about fitness and wellness.

B (4:12)

It is, it is. And everyone in Austin is so friendly. Like I've met so many more people in Austin than I ever did in la.

A (4:20)

LA is a tough place.

B (4:21)

It was tough.

A (4:21)

It was tough. Comparing it to a pretty tough place.

B (4:23)

It was tough. And being from the Midwest, like, I'm like, I talk to everybody and make friends with everybody. So it's like. It just felt like, oh, I mean, I made amazing friends there, but just not the same.

A (4:33)

Well, you know what's so funny is, I don't know if you know this, but I went to UT to study physical therapy.

B (4:41)

What?

A (4:41)

Yes. So I have a. So I studied exercise science, kinesiology, minored in bio. I was going to graduate. I mean, all the kinesiology practicals, all of that, which is basically where you get up, like, in front of your class and name every single bone and muscle in the body. It's like. It's insane, like, how many muscles and bones we have. I forgot them.

B (5:01)

Oh. Oh, yeah.

A (5:02)

I forgot them all.

B (5:03)

You memorize them for that stuff, and then it's like, it's out. Unless you, like, start using it and.

A (5:07)

You have to, like, pronounce it in front of the whole class or whatever. But then. Yes. So I was gonna graduate UT and then go to PT school, and then I. But I started my YouTube channels when I was 19, and so I never ended up going down that path. But I always, like. I was like, oh, I could one day, but let me tell you, it's crazy hard. And then once I found out that, like, you had to, like, actually see blood sometimes and deal with broken bones, I was like, I don't think I can do that.

B (5:32)

Yeah, it's a hard. I mean, it depends on, like, if you. You can be in the hospital setting or you can be in, like, outpatient and very different jobs. But what a interesting, like, fork in the road for you, because your life would be very different right now if you were a pt.

A (5:46)

So different. And you know what's so funny, though, because I did study exercise science, and I was, like, so into fitness for the longest time, but I've kind of forgotten it all. You know, if you don't really use it, you kind of lose it. And I still am pretty good about, like, getting my workouts in because I remember learning how important it was.

B (6:03)

Yes, that doesn't go away.

A (6:04)

That doesn't go away. But, like, all of the technicalities and all that, like, I just kind of forgot, and I'm just like, I just got to do something. And so I'm really excited to have you on today because I think that a lot of people are. A lot of women are in my same boat, especially, like, being moms. It's like, when we know we need to exercise, we know we need to focus on our wellness, we know it affects our mental health so much, but it's like, I'm Sorry. Like, who has the time? And I know I need to prioritize it. So when I do have the time, like, what do I need to focus on? How? I want to hear all about evlo. You are the founder of evlo, which is a fitness program. Like, you run it through an app, correct?

B (6:40)

Yes, yes, correct.

A (6:41)

And I want. So I want to hear all about that, but let's back up. I want to just kind of, like, get to know more about you right now. Can you tell me about yourself, where you grew up, about your babies, like, your life right now?

B (6:53)

Yes. So I'm a former physical therapist. I'm no longer practicing running Evolo full time, and from Kansas. I kind of got into this world because I've been teaching group fitness since I was, like, 18 years old as a hobby. I was actually a business major in college, so I didn't do the kinesiology side of things, but I did go to PT school with a business major. And I spent my 20s working out super, super hard, doing all of the things, lifting weights, cardio, group fitness classes, yoga, Pilates, everything. And really, like, throwing spaghetti at the wall, trying to, like, be fit. And also, I, like, I had these pressures on myself of, like, I'm a group fitness instructor. I need to, like, look a certain way. I need to look the part. I need to look like, quote, unquote, toned. And so I was just doing so much exercise under eating and had chronic pain all over my body, like hip, back, shoulder, wrist. And to the point where my husband and I would go out to a restaurant, and I'd be like, I can't sit there. I can't sit there because my back hurts. Or, like, I can't wear heels because, like, it's. It's gonna hurt my back. And I'm 24 years old.

A (7:57)

Yeah.

B (7:58)

And it took me moving across the country, taking a step back from my workouts, and stop. I stopped exercising for, like, two weeks just to, like, get in a new groove.

A (8:08)

And.

B (8:08)

And that's when I felt the best, like, better than I had in years. And so I realized that it was my workouts that was tearing my body down. It wasn't me. It wasn't my body. And so it changed everything up. And that's kind of how EVLO was developed. And our whole motto is gentle consistency. So doing exactly what you're talking about, like, doing the right things that will have the most potent stimulus and output without overdoing it and without spending a bunch of time doing it. Um, and so that motto, that gentle Consistency motto has taken me through now two different rounds of body recomposition. So before my first pregnancy and then in between my two pregnancies, I had body recomposition, which means losing fat while you're building muscle. It took me through two pregnancies, it took me through two postpartums. It took me through building a business, all while avoiding the chronic pain that I had once lived with and thought was normal. And all while avoiding burning myself out physically, emotionally, mentally. All while not feeling like, you know that guilt when you take a recovery day and you're like, I should be doing something. All of that went away once I learned really the science of fitness and how our bodies actually adapt. So that's where we're at. I just had my second baby three months ago. My babies are. I can relate to you. Not as crazy as you having your pregnancy so close together, but mine are 16 months apart and so.

A (9:32)

No, that's close. That's close. My first two are 17 months apart, so. So you're. Yeah. No, I get it. It's hard.

B (9:38)

Can we talk about one? Okay. Zero to one was so easy.

A (9:42)

It's the best thing. It's so easy.

B (9:44)

It was in retrospect like having a puppy. Yeah, I know.

A (9:47)

You're like, oh, it's easy.

B (9:48)

Just a little accessory. Just like bring them around. One to two has rocked my world.

A (9:52)

Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's normal. Okay. Just wait for three to four or two to three. Two to three.

B (9:59)

Wait. Did you think two to three was hard?

A (10:02)

Yeah, yeah, it's. That's when like life is really not the same. But maybe you won't have. It's. It's great.

B (10:08)

It's different depending on their age gaps too, I think so.

A (10:11)

True. And I really.

B (10:13)

Two to three for you.

A (10:14)

Yeah. So age gap was. It was actually a little bit more like further apart. But I will have four under five, which I don't, I don't recommend. But if you do it like, great, it's gonna be great. I've learned that the at home workouts are like the only way that I will do anything. Or like walking with the strollers.

B (10:32)

Yes. You have to include them or just get it done at home.

A (10:36)

So crazy. Like, I think about my 20s and I'm like, I worked out all the time. Like I went to the gym, I went to like all these fun classes and it was just like such a social fun thing. And now it just looks so different.

B (10:48)

Yes.

A (10:49)

And so I think what you're doing is really cool because I feel Very alone sometimes, like, and I'm like, am I doing the right thing? And like, with my body changing, like, I don't have the same body I had in my 20s, but sometimes I do the same workouts that I had.

B (11:02)

Yeah.

A (11:02)

20S.

B (11:03)

Yeah.

A (11:03)

And I don't. Did you play sports growing up?

B (11:05)

I actually didn't. I was a cheerleader.

A (11:08)

Oh, yeah. Well, cheerleading's, like, pretty.

B (11:09)

Yeah. Yeah. But I wasn't that good.

A (11:11)

Well, I know I'm like, I played sports, but I wasn't. I thought I was bad, but. But the thing is, is about, like, working out is like, I just remember growing up, like, in sports and like, working out the football because, like, volleyball played, like, we. We worked at the same time as a football team and it was all about pushing yourself so much that you would throw up. Like, I remember being on the football field and they were like, we're not going in until someone throws up. Like, which you're just like, praying that somebody throws up so that we can be done with this.

B (11:36)

Right. You're like, don't make themselves throw up because I'm. I'm close, but I can't actually do it. And that's like such old school mentality that is still so prevalent. And what happens is when that's baked into you at such a young age, you then a lot of people carry that with them for the rest of their lives and don't ever question it.

A (11:54)

No, I do. I still do.

B (11:56)

Yeah.

A (11:56)

And it's like, if I don't feel like I'm being tortured, then it's not working.

B (12:00)

Oh, I. And we talk about all of the science as to why that actually isn't true. Yeah. Because it's. It will certainly, like. And that's ultimately what I had to do because I had some of that embedded, for sure. It's like the heart. You have to burn a lot of calories, you have to sweat, you have to like, you know, be crawling out of the gym. Otherwise it's not enough. It's not going to do anything. Like, why bother? And if we look at all of the science behind that, it's like, well, actually that's not true. Because the body adapts when you apply the right stimulus. It's kind of like medicine. Like, you want to take a certain dose of medicine to have the desired effects while not taking too high of a dose because that will have negative, negative side effects. So it's the same thing with exercise. You want to dose it and you want to have the right kind of medicine. You want to have the right kind of exercise and right type of routine, but not so much that it gives you negative side effects like joint pain or fatigue. Or sometimes you won't even see results if you're doing too much, because I know.

A (13:00)

I remember learning about that in school, like, whenever it's like, you do too much that you actually, like, your body's, like, storing everything or like, you can't. Yeah. You're not actually seeing any improvements or any changes.

B (13:12)

Yes.

A (13:13)

So I also want to talk about, like, do you help or spe not, like, create, like, programs and thinking about women that are pregnant or postpartum?

B (13:22)

Yes, absolutely.

A (13:23)

Okay.

B (13:24)

So I am a big fan of continuing to strength train and actually try to build muscle and strength when you're pregnant. Because, number one, it's possible, I think, that we're taught, like, oh, just take it easy when you're pregnant. You don't need to try to, like, have fitness goals. And while I think that's a recommendation, that's conservative. And a lot of doctors recommend that because they're like, okay, I don't have the time to, like, go through your routine and, like, make sure that everything is safe. And da, da, da, da, da. I get it.

A (13:54)

So just don't do it.

B (13:54)

Right.

A (13:55)

So just.

B (13:55)

So just, like, you know, walk or whatever. And what we're seeing from more and more emerging data is that strength training and building muscle during pregnancy is not only possible, but it's extremely beneficial. It helps you avoid gestational diabetes, which is becoming increasingly common. It helps the health of your baby. It helps you feel better, you sleep better, which we know if we sleep better. And as moms like, oh, my gosh, every minute of sleep is like gold. So if you can sleep better, feel better, move better, pick up your babies, recover better postpartum. My postpartum recoveries have thankfully been so easy. And not. Not that they were. Didn't have challenges, but they went smooth, let's put it that way. And I felt really strong, like, pretty much immediately when I came back to my workouts. And that's because I prioritized strength training during pregnancy throughout the whole time. Yeah. And it really.

A (14:50)

The.

B (14:50)

The cool thing about strength training during pregnancy is that you. You'll modify certain things. Of course, you don't want to lay flat on your stomach. You probably don't want to, like, twist really vigorously, things like that. But most of the basics still apply while you're pregnant. You don't have to change your routine a ton. You can actually still lift pretty heavy when you're pregnant.

A (15:09)

Yeah.

B (15:10)

As long as you're regulating your intra abdominal pressure for pelvic floor health and things like that. So yeah, I'm a big, big fan of strength training while you're pregnant.

A (15:18)

Can I ask you, like, why, when you're pregnant or postpartum, why so much emphasis on, on strength training over like cardio or walking or running? So just, you know, my background, like I have always been a big runner. Like I started running cross country and track in high school and then like in my 20s, that's all I pretty much did. But so I got pretty like underweight because. Not just because of running, I think just like genetically too. Like at the time I was like really stressed. And then genetically, like my mom was always really. I'm not. This is my 20s, 30s are different. Let me just say I'm not talking about right now.

B (15:57)

Okay.

A (15:57)

But like I was always amazing. I was like always very like kind of like verge of looking unhealthy. But I also was running like eight miles a day and I like loved it for my mental health too. Like, because you kind of get to this point where it's like they talk about the runners high, but yes, like to this point where running wasn't even painful for me. Like I would run eight miles and.

B (16:17)

Just be like, okay, like whatever, that's wild. Your body was just so adapted.

A (16:21)

So adapted. Because I had done it for so long and you know, it took a while to get there, but I got there and it was like amazing. That's pretty cool. Yeah, I'm not there right now, let me just say. But. But yeah, so then I realized I was like, oh my gosh, when I started losing my hair, I was like, I really think I need to, this is a while ago, like, incorporate some strength training. And so why so much emphasis on strength training these days?

B (16:47)

I think that's such a good question. And I think strength training is thankfully getting so much more awareness now than it ever has, especially for women. And proper strength training, right? Not just as much as I love group fitness classes. Just because you're holding weights doesn't necessarily mean that you are building strength or muscle. Like there's, there's lifting with intention and then there's just like holding weights so we could get into that more. But there's so much more awareness on strength training. And with that I feel like I see a lot of content kind of bashing cardio and saying like, oh, don't do cardio.

A (17:25)

I see that too.

B (17:26)

And I think that unfortunately it, it needs to be both.

A (17:31)

Love that.

B (17:32)

We need to be cardi, we need to be doing cardio and we need to be doing strength training. We just see from the data that strength training and I used to be in the camp, admittedly, where I was like, you know, you don't even really need cardio because strength training will can double as your cardio. And I recently did a podcast about this because I dove into the research more and what we see is that you just don't get the same cardiovascular adaptations from strength training.

A (17:56)

No, totally. I mean, you can see it like I'm, when I'm running, I'm like dying. And when I'm strength training, it's painful, but I'm not like out of body.

B (18:04)

It's a different kind of heart. It's a different kind of challenge, and it's a different kind of challenge for you physiologically. So, yes, you do need both. And pregnant women also need both. What and what's recommended from the ACOG is that you do about 150 minutes of light to moderate intensity cardio each week.

A (18:24)

Okay. So 150 minutes. So like how much is that? Can you break that down? Like, I can't do math.

B (18:28)

So that's like. Yeah, I, I, that's so funny because like, what is it per day? I never like worry about hitting it perfectly. I always just try to get like at least 30 minutes a day of like walking.

A (18:37)

That's helpful.

B (18:38)

Yeah. Or, you know, if, if you're a runner, great. If you like to bike or whatever.

A (18:43)

It is 30 minutes a day, I think we could all do that. Whether it's, you can take a phone call and get outside or do a podcast like during a nap or. Well, I guess you can't like, you know, pushing your stroller, whatever.

B (18:55)

There's so many ways you could like march in place, like literally anything.

A (18:59)

Those, like those Amazon walking pads. Yes.

B (19:02)

Now a walking pad I think is great if you can't get outside anything but, but move your body and challenge your cardiovascular health a little bit. And what you want to look for is you should feel challenged and you don't have to be. I'm on the floor, I'm about to throw up challenge.

A (19:20)

That's, that's like me. I'm like, I need a sweat. Right?

B (19:23)

It's like, doesn't work unless I'm about to throw up. And that's that deep seated, like stuff from high school. And a lot of us have that. But you want to feel, you want to at least feel like it would be difficult to have a conference. Like, you can still have a conversation, but it's starting to get a little hard. Like, you're starting to have to, like, take some extra breaths in there. Or you can still breathe in and out through your nose, but it's starting to get more difficult. You're wanting to start to breathe in and out through your mouth. So you want it to be challenging enough, I think. And I fall guilty to this, but I think sometimes I'll do a walk and it's more leisurely. And really I'm not challenging my cardiovascular health at all. So I always tell my husband, like, we gotta do a fitness walk. We gotta, like, truck it a little bit more. You know, like, walk a little faster. Like, we have hills in our neighborhood, so that helps.

A (20:07)

Helps. Yeah.

B (20:09)

But. But I. Yeah, I think it's a. Both and okay. And they don't have to take away from each other, but you don't want to rely too heavily on one or the other, I would say.

A (20:20)

How do you feel about all of the weighted vests while you're walking or running?

B (20:25)

This is very misleading.

A (20:28)

I mean, they're so big right now.

B (20:30)

They're so big.

A (20:31)

Everybody in the neighborhood has a walking, like a vest.

B (20:33)

Mine too. I. And I want to talk to them because I'm like, okay, it's not that it's harm. Harm harming you. It is harming you if you're. If it's hurting your back or if it's like, hurting your hips or something, but it's not harming you. The claims are that weighted vests improve muscle, improve bone density, accelerate fat loss, and unfortunately, all of those claims are overblown. We see from the literature that just walking with a weighted vest doesn't really provide any benefit for bone or muscle. Unfortunately, it can increase your cardiovascular workload.

A (21:06)

I could see that.

B (21:07)

Yeah.

A (21:08)

So.

B (21:08)

So, like, if a leisurely walk is not doing it for you anymore, and it's not challenging for you anymore, which will happen eventually, if you're consistent, then adding a weighted vest can increase the challenge. But I think that it's being. Being sold as, like, this magic pill that can either replace strength training or have additional benefits that strength training has, like, bone and muscle, and we just don't see that from the data.

A (21:29)

I'm so glad that you said that, because I did not want to get one.

B (21:32)

I honestly think, like, it's. It's the same thing as the wrist weights. Like, I feel the same way.

A (21:37)

And.

B (21:37)

And it's like. And now I'm actually seeing weighted Clothing. So it's like 1 pound shirts or 1 pound leggings. Yeah, I, I, I, it's in short, save your money on the weighted clothing, but on weighted vests. Yeah, you can probably save your money. I think they are going to be a little bit of a trends.

A (21:58)

Like they would hurt.

B (21:59)

Yeah, I, I think so too. Like your shoulders.

A (22:01)

Yeah, like affect my shoulders and my posture. I already have a hard time with my posture, so. Okay, that's so interesting. I want to also touch on your app before because you obviously know so much about what you're talking about. So can you tell me more about Evlo as a program?

B (22:17)

Yes. So every class they're follow along classes, which I personally love to take a class. I just think it's a good way to motivate. I've always been that way. I've always liked classes.

A (22:28)

Follow along classes. Like within the app. Like you click on it and you have a guide, like just guiding you along.

B (22:33)

Yes. It's so like I'm teaching classes or one of our other teachers are teaching classes. We have five teachers now on the platform and they're all doctors of physical therapy. So the instructors are very well educated. We're doing things that are going to be worth your time that will actually move the needle for you as far as results but not compromise your joint pain or there's tons of modifications that we provide. The classes are 35. Yeah. So it's like if you don't like this exercise, here's a swab.

A (23:00)

We need that as women because we have a lot of problems, random problems.

B (23:05)

Right, right. And we can talk about this too because I'm super passionate about. You can, you can make every single workout your own in the sense that like, if you don't like squats, okay, let's do a step up instead.

A (23:16)

Yeah.

B (23:17)

Just do a different exercise and move along and you can see this exact same results. You don't have to force yourself into these exercises that are like the gold standards. Anyways. I, I digress. But so they're 35 minute workouts and three, four or five times per week. You can choose your track. New workouts every single week. So you never have to do the same workout. Oh, I love that too. Yeah. It's not just a library.

A (23:40)

The same thing. Yeah, a library. That's what I don't like about some of the workout programs is like, I'm like, okay, I've done this like new, right?

B (23:48)

It's new. And that helps keep you consistent because you're like, oh, I'm excited. Like what's it going to be today? You know, and it's all very structured. Like we're applying the science of hypertrophy, we're applying the science of muscle growth and we're working specific muscles like very, very specifically. So we're targeting, you know, three to four muscle groups each class. Um, and so by the end of the week, you have worked all of your muscle groups 2ish times on non consecutive days. And then you can take two. We recommend taking two recovery days.

A (24:15)

So are they kind of like full body workout or. You said you focus on different. But like is it a full body workout each day or you focus on a couple, like, you know, you do legs and arms in one day.

B (24:26)

So we're very specific about which muscle groups we're working. So like Mondays is upper body, so we might work chest, shoulders, triceps, biceps, and do exercises specifically for those muscle groups. Tuesdays is lower body and then Wednesday through Friday we're mixing in both upper body and lower body and core. Um, but we're still very specific. Like we will do a hamstring exercise and a tricep exercise and a abdominal exercise and repeat those in circuits with different drop sets and different like fun sequencing. So it feels, it doesn't feel so like bore boring.

A (24:59)

Yeah, totally.

B (25:00)

Because that's the thing about strength training that I think catches a lot of women. And part of the reason why I developed this was I was like, I just can't go and do the same thing every single time. Yes, I know, I just. And some people love that and that's their jam. And like go, go for it. But like I need different and new but I still need it to apply the science. So.

A (25:21)

Totally. And what I like about the app is like, for example, I'm traveling a lot this November. I haven't traveled a lot this year. But I like having something that I can also take with me to a gym like while I travel.

B (25:32)

Yes.

A (25:33)

You know, like a hotel gym. Or even if it's like doing it like in your hotel room or whatever it is, it's so helpful to be be able to do it at home too. Because realistically I am at home and I'm trying to work out after I get the kids. Kids to school.

B (25:47)

Totally, totally. And you're trying to get it done fast like you want to like. And we don't need to like I don't know about you but like I don't have time for an hour long workout. Like that's just not. I used to, I Know, I used to. And I miss that.

A (25:59)

Like, I would love to take smoothies afterwards.

B (26:02)

I know it's like a whole, like three hour ordeal, like, getting there. Get it. Yeah.

A (26:07)

So fun.

B (26:08)

But yes, I, I think that's part of the appeal too, is like, you can just do it from your home and a lot of people will take our app to the gym and just set up a little, like, mat and get the weights that they need and get the equipment that they need. I am a big proponent of using weights. I think that, I think. I think it's hard to get the same stimulus to your muscle with just body weight.

A (26:31)

I agree.

B (26:32)

For most things.

A (26:32)

For most things. There's some moves that you can do that with just body weight, but no, like, push ups, all that. But especially if you want to keep it interesting, like, you probably need that.

B (26:42)

You do need the dumbbells and.

A (26:44)

Yeah.

B (26:44)

And that's why I say, like, invest in some dumbbells. Get the. Yeah. And get, Get a broad range because.

A (26:51)

Get some cute ones. Like, why not?

B (26:53)

There needs to be more, like, aesthetically, like, beautiful weights.

A (26:57)

Well, that's your next thing.

B (26:58)

I know. I've honestly thought about it a lot. I'm like, I feel like I need to create some beautiful weights that are also, like, ergonomic for your. For a woman's hand because.

A (27:05)

A little squishy because, like, ow. I know. Ones give me.

B (27:08)

I'm like, I know. And then if I'm wearing my rings, it gets like, I have like a callus right here. Like, it's like, oh, I feel like a bro at the gym.

A (27:15)

No, totally.

B (27:16)

Yeah.

A (27:16)

That's so great. Okay, so you have the program and how important is stretching?

B (27:23)

Oh, I hate stretching. Okay, you don't. I do not believe that you need to spend a lot of time stretching. Yeah. So that will validate you. Okay, there's. Stretching is interesting. So we don't stretch in our program. We tend to do active mobility instead. And stretching can feel really good. And I don't think that it's necessarily wrong unless you're doing really, really deep stretches and like, compromising your tissue, like the ligaments and the cartilage and things that cross the joint. But stretching doesn't necessarily do a whole lot for tightness because tightness is a sensation from your nervous system. It's not something that you can measure. So if you say, like, I feel tight in my hips or my hamstrings feel. Feel tight, that's a subjective sensation. And that sensation happens when your body feels unsafe in a certain Position. It offers you this sensation of tightness in order to protect you. It's kind of like when you touch a hot stove, it burns your hand. It's the sensation that's getting you to pull away from the stove. So, same thing with tightness. It's the sensation that's getting you to move away from that range of motion that your body might not be familiar with and might not feel safe in those ranges of motion. Like, if you're doing the splits, your body's like, hey, our labrum's about to tear here, so get us out. Get us out of this.

A (28:43)

Alert, alert, red alert.

B (28:44)

Right, Exactly. So I wish I could tell myself that doing the splits on rollerblades when I was in college. Oh, my gosh. Tearing my hip labrum.

A (28:51)

But it sounds impressive. I'm not going to lie.

B (28:53)

Honestly, it was a very cool party trick.

A (28:55)

Like on rollerblades.

B (28:56)

Yeah, I do have a video of it, but. So, because the root issue of tightness is potentially weakness, or maybe your body is. Maybe there's an injury there that you don't know about, or a tissue is healing, or you're just not familiar with the position, because those are the root issues of tightness. Stretching won't necessarily fix those root issues. If the root issue is weakness, we want to get stronger. And then by getting stronger, tightness improves. So long winded answer.

A (29:28)

No. So when you're feeling tight, though, like, let's say in your hamstrings, do you want to keep doing the exercise?

B (29:34)

You mean if you're feeling tight during.

A (29:36)

The exercise, the movement. Like, if you're doing the. What's the hamstring thing where you, like. What do you call those? I don't know. You know.

B (29:43)

Oh, deadlift. Deadlift, yes.

A (29:45)

Yes. So when you're doing those. Sometimes my hamstrings are like, ow, ow, ow, ow. Like, do you want to keep moving through?

B (29:52)

Depends with that specifically. That's. That's called stretch. Like, you're loading in a stretched position and you're strengthening in that stretched position. So as long as it's not horribly uncomfortable, I think it's. It's typically. Okay.

A (30:06)

Okay.

B (30:06)

You can, like, adjust your range of motion slightly so it's more comfortable. So you can actually, like, get through the lift. Yeah, yeah.

A (30:13)

Don't hurt yourself.

B (30:14)

Right? Don't hurt yourself. But, yeah, usually it's just a little warning sign from your nervous system. Like, hey, like, let's, like, be cautious in this.

A (30:21)

Can you tell me more about yoga intervention? I saw that something that you do. I Don't know anything about it. And I'm gonna be honest with you. I know yoga is so good for you, but it's probably my least favorite exercise.

B (30:34)

Yeah.

A (30:34)

Form of exercise.

B (30:35)

I don't do any yoga anymore. I. In. I grew up.

A (30:39)

Grew up. Yeah.

B (30:40)

I mean, basically when I was 19, I started teaching group fitness and yoga, and I. That was like, my thing for a couple years was yoga. And I. I do love a good yoga class, but I've gotten away from it just because I think, you know, my priorities have changed. Like, I just think strength training and cardio is a bigger impact on my health and on most people's health. But I think yoga can be really awesome. A good yoga class, I think there's a spectrum, of course, like, anything. Um, but I think a good yoga class can be great for your nervous system, for your neuromuscular awareness. So the awareness between your brain and your body.

A (31:22)

Totally.

B (31:22)

Um, breathing can be awesome, but you can incorporate all of that into your strength training sessions like we do.

A (31:27)

I'm so happy you said that.

B (31:29)

Yeah.

A (31:29)

Because I don't want to do yoga.

B (31:30)

Just do a. And you don't have to if you don't like it.

A (31:32)

Like, I feel like when I do weights, it's kind of like my yoga. Like, I'm usually. I listen to my favorite music or podcast. I'm, like, breathing, I'm focusing, I'm thinking.

B (31:43)

About, you know, I feel the same way. And I do a little bit. And in every class, we do a little bit of Shavasana at the end where we just lay there and it's, you know, 30 seconds to two minutes. And. And so you get those nervous system benefits without having to do a whole, like, 60 minute class. Yeah. And I don't know about you, but when I. When I'm strength training, like, I immediately feel better after a couple sets. Like, it is absolutely improving my mental health. So. So, yeah, I think yoga is great if you love it, but I don't think you need to force yourself to do it if you don't.

A (32:13)

I'm so happy that you said that.

B (32:15)

Just here and validate you today.

A (32:16)

Just validate me, please. So with your program, Evlo, how often do you recommend women work out? Like, how often are you opening the app and doing these? 35 minutes.

B (32:28)

Okay, so let's talk about a routine that I recommend. Okay, so I recommend in evil, we have three, four or five time per week tracks. So you can work out three. You can do three lifting sessions, four or five. All the same. Just the Three time per week. The classes are a little bit longer. So just whatever works in your schedule. So that's number one. That's the cornerstone that I recommend is like build that in first and then from there you want to build in your cardio. So your Cardio is that 150 minutes of cardio per week. Again you can do 30 minutes of a walk or whatever. Whatever fits into your lifestyle and will be easy for you to stay consistent with from there if you have time and if you want to and energy and recovery capacity and all of those things you can add in one or two hit sessions per week. And we have a class called Cardio Burst. It's like an intervals class. I'm sorry, it's called Intervals. We changed the name recently. And so it's all out effort for you know, 30 seconds or a minute and then you break and then you do that again. And those classes and those sessions should be really short. Hit should be really short and really infrequent because it's a lot on your nervous system, it's a lot on your body physically. So you want to make sure that you have proper recovery in between sessions. Um, so that you can actually go into the session with full out effort. Cause if you're kind of, if you're.

A (33:48)

Halfing it like you're not really doing a hit.

B (33:50)

Yeah. Like you're not, you're not stimulating the same effects in your body. Yeah. So that's something that like not everybody, like if you're pregnant, probably not doing the hit right now.

A (34:01)

Love it workout.

B (34:02)

But that's great. I. You can continue to do it like while you're pregnant. You absolutely can.

A (34:06)

I think they say it's like, well, talk to your doctor. Nevermind. Yeah, I know, but my doctor told me was you can do anything that you were doing before you got pregnant. And if you were doing that like, like I've been playing tennis and I.

B (34:19)

Yes.

A (34:19)

And they're just like, don't try anything crazy.

B (34:21)

Like totally.

A (34:22)

You know, like don't be trying new things that you've never done before like rollerblading and all these things while you're pregnant. Right.

B (34:28)

It makes sense.

A (34:28)

It makes sense.

B (34:29)

It's. Yes. Like apply like. Yeah. Some common sense and. Yeah. But I agree. And you can absolutely continue to do it while you're pregnant. Postpartum you definitely want to be more cautious about when you add that higher intensity exercise just for pelvic floor reasons. It's, it's a lot of pressure on your pelvic floor jumping. So you want to make sure that you have a proper recovery before you add that.

A (34:54)

Have you experienced any of that craziness?

B (34:58)

Yes. So, yes.

A (35:01)

The two producers in the room have not had children. Yeah. They're like, what? Tell you it's not fun jumping on a trampoline anymore.

B (35:08)

No, I know. And that was, like, for my first pregnancy, I, I, I wasn't really sure what to expect. And I feel like I, I got back to teaching, like, I think at like, eight weeks or ten weeks. That's great. And I started doing cardio that, like, very soon after. And I feel like I just rushed it too much.

A (35:28)

Okay.

B (35:28)

And I learned that, like, the hard way. I felt like I was starting to get.

A (35:32)

Because you don't know. Because it's, like, so internal.

B (35:35)

You don't know.

A (35:35)

And I'm like, I feel great.

B (35:36)

It's time.

A (35:37)

And then I was the same way with my first.

B (35:39)

Yeah.

A (35:39)

And then, like, you learn, like, a week later, I was like, okay, mama's not ready. I started to get, like, sore. And, like, I was, like, sore walking.

B (35:45)

I was like, okay, exactly. Exactly. Or you start. It starts to feel, like, heavy. Like, it's this, like, heaviness feeling. And you're like. Because your pelvic floor takes time to heal after delivery. And if you were jumping in too soon, which so many people do, and some. It's just an accident. It's not always your fault. Right. Like, you could. And you could be like me and have all of the knowledge and information and still, just because we're all different. Do too much, you know, and. But the beautiful thing is pelvic floor physical therapy is incredible.

A (36:13)

Yeah.

B (36:13)

And you can always rehab and improve, but this pregnancy, I eased in a lot more. And it's like a game changer because I was worried. I don't know if this happened to you, but, like, having babies so close together, I was really worried about my.

A (36:25)

Because you don't feel totally healed.

B (36:27)

No, I did not feel.

A (36:28)

Do you know what happened with my mom? So my mom, because my mom was a big runner as well, and so she felt so good postpartum after having my brother. And I think she started running, like, again, probably six weeks. Six weeks postpartum. And she hemorrhaged. And so she was, like, on a run and just, like, started bleeding, like, gushing blood on her run. And she was like, I had no pain, no symptoms. Like, I just thought it was time. Like, my body was time. It was time to get ready to go back and. But yeah. And she had nothing. Like, she didn't know.

B (37:00)

Right.

A (37:00)

So it really is different for everyone, but it is. What was I going to ask you about postpartum? So my. Do you feel like. Did you have unmedicated births?

B (37:12)

No, I did the epidural.

A (37:14)

Okay. Some people say. I just wanted to get this out there. Some people say, like, if you do unmedicated, you have, like, a different healing post, like, process, Postpartum.

B (37:24)

Yes.

A (37:25)

I didn't feel that at all physically. Like, I felt that mentally. I felt. Because my last one, I went unmedicated, and I felt that I was like.

B (37:33)

Tell me the differences.

A (37:33)

Oh, I was like, I'm so bad. A. Like, I feel like I am, like, queen of the world. Like, I was like, I can't believe I did this.

B (37:39)

Yeah.

A (37:39)

It was so empowering. And I didn't have, like, postpartum depression whatsoever. But even in the. They even say, like, oh, you can get up and walk better, faster, all these things. And. And they say that, I think mainly because when you're pushing, like, you're more aware of your body, so, like, you know, like, your limits and, you know, not. I didn't feel any different at all, really. It was the same. It was the same.

B (38:02)

Okay, that's so good to know.

A (38:04)

I. I just am a big advocate for the mental part of it. Mental health part.

B (38:08)

Yes. But you felt more like yourself afterwards.

A (38:12)

That, and I felt more. But like I said, I just felt really pretty proud of myself.

B (38:16)

Totally. And I feel like a beast.

A (38:18)

I felt like a beast. And I, like, just walked around, like, with a little bit less swagger. Like, I was like, oh, my gosh. And I was just like, it was so empowering. And so. And I don't even think it had anything to do with, like, not getting the Pitocin or the epidural. Like, I don't really think that made a big difference except for the. The mental health.

B (38:36)

Right, Right.

A (38:37)

So, like, I just wanted to share that because I think, like, everyone's postpartum is different totally. And so it really is more so about, like, listening to your body, listen to your doctor, all the things.

B (38:48)

But it is. And. And too, like, you. So I think a lot, like, what you shared is really important because I think a lot of people will do the unmedicated birth because they want a faster healing process, and they want to, like. Like, reduce the risk of tearing and reduce the risk of pro, like, pelvic floor.

A (39:05)

Prologue I still tore. Yeah, Sorry.

B (39:08)

Right.

A (39:08)

No, no, that was my personal. Maybe it's different for some people, and.

B (39:11)

I think it is I think, yes, it is. But, like, that's important for you to share, too, because.

A (39:15)

Yeah.

B (39:15)

Like, you. I think when people are making that decision, they just want all the information going into it. But, I mean, for me, my second epidural only worked half of my body, so.

A (39:26)

Oh, I've heard of that.

B (39:27)

Yeah. But, like, it actually ended up being the best case scenario because. So for my first delivery, I pushed really hard. I was like. I. I was. I went beast mode. I had an epidural, so I couldn't feel anything.

A (39:40)

Same like. Like, veins are popping.

B (39:42)

Yeah.

A (39:42)

And I'm like, oh.

B (39:43)

I'm, like, pushing so hard, and it's. It's, like, kind of empowering because, like, everyone in the room's like, go, Shannon. Yeah.

A (39:48)

You know, you're like, okay. Yeah.

B (39:50)

You're like, I'm going as hard as I can. And I did regret that because I feel like it. It did delay my healing a little bit. But with this second one, I waited a lot longer to start pushing, and with guidance of my nurses and doctors, of course. But. And then I only. I could feel half of it, so I could. I could feel, like, when it was time to push, so I pushed for a lot less time. And I feel like that made a huge difference.

A (40:14)

I know. I know.

B (40:15)

A huge difference. So it's just. I mean, there's so many things when it comes to delivery, and that's why I'm like, listen, we have to control what we can control.

A (40:25)

Yeah.

B (40:25)

We can control, like, keeping our bodies as healthy and strong as possible. But strength training doesn't leave you immune to some of the things that can happen during delivery, like tearing and things like that. So it's like, yes, it helps, but it's not like. It's not this. Like, you know, there's. There's a lot of considerations.

A (40:42)

Well, I will say so. Like, I've had. Now, this is my fourth pregnancy and my first two. I mean, I was working out an hour a day, every single day.

B (40:52)

Like, so impressive.

A (40:53)

Straight I strength training. Like, I was doing races, like, up at, like, in my second trimester, doing, like, 10Ks, whatever. And I. I'm. That's the one thing is, I will admit, is that the more that I worked out during my pregnancy, the easier my postpartum was, and the more children I've had, the harder. It's like, I would say now with this fourth pregnancy, I'm probably working out, like, three days a week. I play tennis, so that's like a little bit of cardio, but.

B (41:25)

Yeah.

A (41:26)

But for My threshold, it doesn't really get me. Like, yeah, over there.

B (41:29)

Yeah.

A (41:30)

And. And so, and I. I will say, like, my last postpartum, like, I just felt physically more fatigued. Like, like my heart was like, oh, my gosh, I'm always out of breath.

B (41:39)

And like.

A (41:40)

And so it's like, if, if you can prioritize it, I know it's not easy to. I do think it makes a difference postpartum.

B (41:47)

I do. I do think so.

A (41:48)

And just like, with your mental health and everything, can you tell me, are there any, like, common misunderstandings or misconceptions on strength training and muscle building?

B (42:00)

You can think of so many. Let's see, where should I begin?

A (42:06)

I know it's a lot.

B (42:09)

So I think one of the things that a lot of women don't understand about strength training, that if they did, they would see so much better return on their investment, is actually training to failure or close to failure. And this is a conversation that is luckily getting more awareness. But again, it's the difference between lifting weights and just picking up weights and actually building muscle or building strength and seeing the adaptation that you're after. And so lifting to failure means you physically can't complete another rep, no matter how hard you're trying. Like, yeah, yeah. You're like, I am trying. I cannot lift this weight. I cannot complete this movement. That's failure. Studies show you don't have to get all the way to failure. You can get one to three reps shy, and getting one to three reps shy of failure will build the exact same amount of muscle as. As training to failure. So getting one to three reps shy of failure is kind of hard to feel like. People are like, am I three reps shy of failure? Like, I don't know. So sometimes you have to get all the way to failure to, like, know what that feels like. But one of the. I have some tools to help people know if they're getting to true muscular failure. And, and one of them is that your last rep should feel slower than your first rep. You cannot physically do your last rep at the same speed that you could do your first rep. That's how you know you're close to failure.

A (43:27)

Interest. I love that.

B (43:28)

There's that tip, and then there's another tip that I call the rest test. So if you think you're close to failure, do your final rep, set the weight down, rest for 5 seconds, pick the weight up, and try to do more reps. If you could do two or three more reps, you weren't Close enough to failure. So go up and wait next time or do more reps with that same. Same weight next time. And implementing those little tweaks will make your workouts so much more effective for the time that you're putting in. And I think, too, like, it's important to note, people are like, how many reps do I need to do? Like, do I need to be doing six reps, 10 reps, whatever? We see from the studies that anywhere from 6 reps all the way up to 30 reps does not matter. Builds the same amount of muscle as long as you. Your last rep is to failure or close to failure. Um, so I truly think that that's, like, the biggest misconception and the biggest unlock when it comes to strength training.

A (44:20)

That's such a good tip. I'm gonna use that.

B (44:22)

Yeah, use it.

A (44:23)

Because I'm very.

B (44:23)

You'll see a huge difference.

A (44:24)

I'm very much into, like, give me a number. Give me this. But it really is. If it's like, a feeling.

B (44:30)

It is. And if you. And the problem with doing. It's very common to be like, okay, do three sets of 10, and giving you that 10, like, okay, I'm going to do 10 reps with this weight, what happens is you could get to 10 reps, but you could actually do 15 reps. And so you weren't close enough to failure. And so that those. That set just wasn't very stimulating.

A (44:51)

It's like, what's the point? It's like, what's wasting time?

B (44:54)

You're wasting time. So I like to say, just do. Pick a weight that feels challenging and do as many as you can. Okay. Obviously, if you're doing more than 30, you need a heavier weight. I don't like doing more than, like, 15 because it just starts to really burn. It starts to. And it starts to take longer if you're doing those higher reps. But you can do them if you feel more comfortable with it.

A (45:13)

Okay, that's super helpful. Can you tell me about Pilates versus strength training? Pilates is so big. Yeah. I don't know if it's like, you know, it's like tennis and Pilates. It's like, are those things just big right now? Because we're getting older and, like, we're in that era of, like, tennis and Pilates, or is it just more popular now?

B (45:33)

I think it's also, like, the aesthetic, like, the. Okay. I think it is a little bit like. I think that's part of the reason why it's popular. I mean, I Love tennis.

A (45:40)

Okay.

B (45:41)

I like, no, like, yeah, yeah, but it's cute.

A (45:43)

Like, it's cute.

B (45:44)

It is so cute. Wear the cute outfits. Yeah, but I feel like people weren't playing tennis, like, 10 years ago.

A (45:48)

I. I know, but I'm also like, but were they? And maybe they were. I think we just didn't know because we weren't that age yet, and now we're just older.

B (45:55)

Yeah. Yeah.

A (45:56)

I don't know.

B (45:57)

People are like, okay, millennials. Like, we've been playing tennis forever.

A (46:00)

Well, my mom's been playing tennis for. For, like. I remember she would drop me off at school. I could run with her tennis outfit on every single day. So I'm like, what a vibe. So maybe I just. I'm older now.

B (46:10)

But, yeah, maybe.

A (46:10)

Anyway.

B (46:11)

Yeah.

A (46:11)

Coming into your zeitgeist, it seems like Pilates is everywhere.

B (46:14)

Yes.

A (46:15)

So, yeah, tell me about Pilates. Verse strength training.

B (46:18)

Okay. I get so much heat on the Internet for my take on this.

A (46:22)

We love a hot topic.

B (46:23)

Okay, so here. Here we go. And. And I think I have a very reasonable take on it. So it's interesting that people, like, come after me about it. But I think. I think what happens is if you've been doing a certain form of exercise and someone talks about it in a way that feels challenging, it. You're like, well, no, like, I need to defend that. And I get it. I get it. It's like if someone came after Evolo, I would be so defensive.

A (46:45)

Yeah.

B (46:46)

What the heck. No, but. So here's the thing. On Pilates, if we go back to. You have to lift between 6 and 30 reps taken to failure or 1 to 3 reps shy of failure in order to see muscle growth. Many times in a Pilates class, you either aren't getting close to failure, maybe the reps are low, but you're not actually getting to failure or close to muscular failure. Or the reps are way too high. And what we see from the data is that when the reps are too high and the load is too light, it just doesn't stimulate a lot of muscle growth. It can in beginners.

A (47:18)

It's almost like doing cardio.

B (47:20)

Yeah. It's endurance. So it's. It's muscular endurance.

A (47:23)

Yeah, muscular.

B (47:24)

Muscular endurance.

A (47:25)

But not building muscle, Right?

B (47:28)

Typically. But there are some Pilates methods that do apply the science of a hypertrophy. You absolutely can. Like.

A (47:34)

And hypertrophy is when you grow muscle.

B (47:36)

When you grow muscle. Okay. Yes. And you can absolutely go on a reformer. I mean, reformer is resistance.

A (47:42)

I've never Done it.

B (47:43)

So try. Give it a go. Yeah.

A (47:45)

Do you think I should do it when I'm pregnant?

B (47:47)

You could.

A (47:48)

I mean, I mean, I'm not gonna like push myself too hard. I just like, I don't know.

B (47:50)

I'm. No, Honestly, Yeah. I mean, not that it would be dangerous. I don't necessarily think that, especially if you had a good teacher, but I just don't see it adding much more than your routine of lifting weights and doing. So it looks, and that's, and, and I know it look, it looked to me, I'm like, it looks so, and that's what I think people don't understand. Like, if I had my choice, I think I would just only do Pilates because I just, I, it feels so good. My body, it just feels. Do you, My body depends on like the format in the class. Okay. Sometimes. No.

A (48:23)

Yeah.

B (48:24)

But I don't do Pilates anymore, so.

A (48:26)

Yeah. So I sweat when I, when I strength train. Yes.

B (48:30)

Like, and some people do and some people don't. Like, it also just depends on you. But, but so answering the question about Pilates, it depends on the method. I think some methods, some popular reformer methods and not reformer, they're, I don't, I forget what they call themselves. It's not reformer. They're like, it's like mega former or something.

A (48:51)

I don't know.

B (48:52)

Don't come after me. People with the what the proper terms there. You're on an apparatus, you're on a machine, and they're claiming that they're training close to failure. But what happens is that the reps are really high and so they, you may feel like you're shaking and you're burning and it's really, really hard, but you're not actually training close to failure. You're more fatiguing your body. And so what I recommend someone doing in that class is if you're like, okay, am I actually close to failure or am I to failure? Take a five second break. If you could keep going on doing the exercise that you're doing, you were fatigued, you were not at true muscular failure. And that isn't necessarily a potent enough stimulus to build muscle. So that's where I'm at. And then a lot of people are like, well, how do I incorporate Pilates? Because I want to do both. That's big trend right now is people doing strength training and Pilates. Okay. Um, I, I, I recommend that if it's not throwing off your recovery, you could do it on a recovery day. But if you feel like you go to a pilates session and the next day you're so sore and you can't do your strength training workout. That was on your calendar. That's not necessarily moving you forward. Um. Cause we want to feel fresh going into your strength training workout so that you can put in enough effort to stimulate muscle growth and move yourself forward. So that's my recommendation.

A (50:03)

I don't know if we talked about this. Why, why is building muscle the most important thing instead of fatiguing your body?

B (50:12)

So different adaptations. So fatigue is typically builds endurance in the muscle fibers, so it makes you better at holding certain positions longer.

A (50:23)

Okay.

B (50:24)

So that's, that's the benefit of muscle, muscle endurance. And that might have some translation into your daily life. Like if you have to hold a baby for a really long time or something, like you have better muscular endurance, you might be able to do that with more ease. So it absolutely has some value. Building muscle has a much larger impact on your metabolic health. So how we metabolize glucose, muscle is our biggest glucose storage site in our body. So it's. It stores up to 80% of the glucose that we eat. So if we think about it this way, and it's not just about like staying lean or fat loss or anything, but a lot of people like this clicks for them. So when you eat, your food is broken down into glucose. And that glucose travels in your bloodstream and either powers processes of your body, helps keep you moving, powers your digestion, your mental health, all of that, Whatever's left over either gets stored in the liver or it gets stored in muscle, or it gets stored as fat. So if the liver and the muscle are topped off, it gets stored as fat. So when we have. We can't grow our liver that I know of, but when we grow muscle, you have more storage sites for the glucose to go, so it's easier to stay leaner. It also has an improvement on your meta metabolic health, your insulin sensitivity, which improves every single process in your body. So. And we're losing. I could go on and on. Can you tell? Yeah, but in. We're losing it as we age. With each decade after the age of 30, we're losing it at more of a rapid pace than people realize. So yeah, lots of reasons.

A (51:59)

That's the one thing that I've always heard is it's so important to continue to lift weights and build muscle as you get older.

B (52:07)

Yes.

A (52:08)

And a lot of it has to do with like with your bones as well, right?

B (52:11)

It absolutely does. I think there is a push for older women to Start lifting weights. And I'm all for that. Like, it's never too late to build muscle and bone density and stuff, but a lot of times it's because the women in their 40s and 50s didn't prioritize strength training when they were younger. And so they're having to kind of play catch up as they're starting to lose more lean mass and as they're starting to notice those changes. So if you can start early, like, if you can start in your 20s and at least maintain what you have. If not, build, like, a really, really good base of muscle in your 20s and in your 30s, you will set yourself up for so much more. Ease into your 40s and beyond. You'll have better metabolic health. You'll feel better, you'll move better, lower risk of disease. It'll be easier for you to maintain leanness if that's your goal. So start early. But, yes, building muscle as you age is extremely important. As you approach perimenopause, which a lot of people start to hear, hit perimenopause in late 30s. Like, we're. We're getting close. Like, what the heck? I know, I know.

A (53:15)

I feel like I'm 17.

B (53:17)

I know.

A (53:17)

I'm like, what am I doing?

B (53:18)

I'm a teen mom.

A (53:19)

Like, bunch of kids having kids. You know, I'm like, and now you're talking about perimenopause. And then I look in the mirror and I have, like, white hairs. I'm like, yes, I know.

B (53:28)

You're finding new wrinkles every day.

A (53:29)

High schooler with gray hair. This is just so weird.

B (53:32)

Somebody explain this to me. Make it make sense.

A (53:34)

It's all adding up. So I want to talk about your thoughts on GLP1s, because that is so popular right now. I was actually looking at, like, data behind GLP1s and the adoption, like, of this drug, and people are, like, adopting it at a faster rate than they did iPhones and, like, Spotify and.

B (53:57)

Wow.

A (53:57)

Like, all these major tech companies, it's like, people are more. I think it's, like, already have, like, a 20% penetration, so it's very, very popular. I'm sure you know, a lot of people that have been on it, and even if you don't know them, you can walk around and almost see, like, that person looks different like that. Like, you know, totally. So it's so prevalent now. What are your thoughts on all of that?

B (54:18)

Well, first of all, I'm not an md, so I always say, like, don't take advice about medication from me. But I will say that I've done a 180 on my opinion on GLP1s. So at first, and I think maybe a lot of people can relate to this, at first I was like, it just is a shortcut for people to lose weight. Celebrities and rich people are just taking it to lose 10 pounds. I kind of like look down on it. And the more I've talked to medical providers who are, who are prescribing this to their patients, I'm realizing the benefits that it can have for a variety of populations. And what we're seeing is that it doesn't just help with weight loss, it can help with fertility, it can help with your metabolic health. It's been shown to help with addiction. So taking it to help with alcoholism, yeah, I've heard of that. So there's so many different use cases for it, which I think is really, really fascinating. And it is interesting that the adoption is so high because I think there's still that stigma of like this is the shortcut. Like this is like, you know, you're, you just need more discipline, whatever. So I've kind of come, yeah, I've come 180 on it. And I don't judge people that are like, I have really tried a lot of things. Like I really struggle to lose weight and I, I'm trying to do all the things and I'm just really having a hard time with it. I mean, you know, maybe, maybe it's something you could talk to with your, about your doctor or about your doctor, to your doctor about.

A (55:49)

So I've seen a lot of people that, because I think with anything like we all know that like you can go on a diet, you can change this but, but it has to be like a long term like lifestyle change. And what I've seen with GLP ones in my like my personal circles is like a lot of people have gone on it for like a temporary amount of time and it gave them this like boost to like in this confidence boost and this almost like jump start into like that lifestyle change because they've tried everything in the past and nothing has worked. And so they do that and then they get off of it and they're like, you know what? This time's going to be different. And like, because I got that little boost and now I have some more confidence, I can do this. Like I'm going to take it more serious because I don't want to lose the progress that I've gained, you know. And I know some people, it's different for, but it's like anything. It's like you go on a diet and lose 10 pounds, but you have to maintain it.

B (56:39)

You have to maintain that.

A (56:40)

And, but what I have loved because I, I, I've had a lot of people in my life that it's like, it's changed their lives.

B (56:46)

Yeah, me too.

A (56:47)

And so, I don't know, like the whole, I don't, I'm not a doctor, I don't know the science of exactly, like, what's, what's working, what. But I do know that, like, they're off of it now and they're looking great, they're feeling great, they've changed their lifestyles because they don't want to go back to where they were. And they know, like, oh my gosh, this was such a blessing to get this little kickstart, like, I'm going to change my life totally, you know, and I think that's so, so great.

B (57:09)

I, I think so too. And, and I think from what I understand, it can help improve your, you metabolically from like a cellular level. And so if you, yeah, if you have that jump start, it might be easier for you to, to maintain those changes because you're just more metabolically healthy when you, when you get off of it. But I will say the one thing that's crucial, and I think that if you're taking this, you're probably aware of it, is the, the potential loss of lean mass, the loss of muscle mass.

A (57:35)

So you can see it, the hollowness in some people.

B (57:38)

You want to make sure that you're strength training properly and that you are training close to failure and that you're eating enough protein so that you can at least maintain lean mass. Because what happens when we see rapid weight loss, we're seeing the weight loss from both fat and muscle. So you're losing fat and muscle at the same time, which is the GLP one helping you get more metabolically healthy. Is the loss of fat helping you get more metabolically healthy? Yes, maybe. But then you're also losing muscle. So is it kind of a wash? I mean, I, I don't know. I wouldn't, it'd be hard to tell, but. So you need to maintain muscle, and that means strength training close to failure, even to maintain. People are like, oh, I'm just gonna maintain muscle, so I'm gonna go do like a bar class or, or light, light lifting or whatever. You still have to apply the same exact things that you would if you're trying to build muscle, even just to maintain, you just don't have to do as much of it. So that's what I. Failure, close to failure, close to failure. Training. If you learn one thing from this episode, start training.

A (58:38)

Do you have any other, like, tips or tricks for women that are wanting to get like that? Just feel a little lost. Just a broad. I don't know.

B (58:46)

Oh, my gosh.

A (58:48)

I know that's a broad question.

B (58:49)

No, it's good because it makes me think about, like, okay, what have we not hit on? Yeah, I think we talked about cardio. We talked about strength training.

A (58:59)

I mean, how important is diet?

B (59:02)

It's. Yeah, it is.

A (59:04)

I know. That was one thing I remember learning in school, too. I can't remember the percentage. It was like. But when you're wanting to lose weight, like, this percentage is. Is, like, important during or like your.

B (59:15)

Diet, is this percentage the majority for all intensive purposes? If you're trying to lose fat, nutrition is almost the entire picture. Now. Staying active, like, if you're just sitting on the couch, you.

A (59:27)

You're.

B (59:28)

And doing nothing, your energy expenditure is going to be low, and so you'll have to eat less in order to lose weight. If you're active, you. You do burn more calories. It's not as much as people think. People overemphasize exercise for weight loss when nutrition is so much a bigger part of it, but. So you want to stay active overall to keep your energy expenditure high. But if weight loss is a goal of yours, nutrition is the number one thing that you want to be looking at. Um, and I know that tracking is controversial, and it's not for everyone. I totally acknowledge that. But for some people doing some tracking for just a couple days to kind of see, like, what's my intake like right now? Yeah, like, without trying, like, well, how much protein am I getting? How many calories am I eating? Um, and if. Cause if you have goals, like, those things do matter.

A (60:14)

Totally. I mean, I think my biggest thing that I lack is protein. It's hard. How is there a easy way to know how much protein, like, we should each be eating?

B (60:25)

Yes. 0.7 to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight per day. So if you weigh. If you weigh 150 pounds, you'll want to eat around 150 grams of protein per day. Or what's 0.7 times 150?

A (60:39)

Like, about. Yeah, like maybe 120 or something.

B (60:42)

Yeah, something like that. A podcast, but.

A (60:45)

And then, okay, so that's a lot more protein than I'm probably eating.

B (60:50)

But just get what you can get. What you can, you know, like put.

A (60:53)

It in your pro, in your smoothie. Put it in. I like how there's even protein you can add in your coffee these days. Like there's so many ways to do it. You just have to be diligent about it. But I have heard that like eating enough protein is crucial for strength training.

B (61:08)

It is. And it's even more important if you are trying to body recomposition, which we didn't really even get into. But body recomposition means losing fat while you're building muscle. So.

A (61:20)

Yeah, how do we do that?

B (61:21)

Yes, yes. There's, there's some, there's like a couple of things in addition to what we talked about. But so when you're trying to body recomposition, you want, it's, it's extra important. It seems appears from the literature from what I read, that your protein is, is in that high range, that.07 to 1 gram of protein. If you're not trained to body recomp, you might be able to get away with a little less protein and still build muscle, especially if you're just strength training properly. But to body recomp. So body recomposition is a slower process. And it seems from the outside like it's about the aesthetics, like, oh, I'm losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time. It's kind of that toned aesthetic and it.

A (62:02)

Love it.

B (62:03)

Yeah.

A (62:03)

Love being toned. It seems back in my day, right.

B (62:06)

And it seems like, oh, it's all about like what you look like. The reason why I love body recomposition as a goal for so many people is because it takes a little bit longer. You have to have a longer Runway. I recommend having a year in which you're working on body recomposition. And because you have that full year, you can test things out, you can try things out. You're not in a rush, you're not going to burn yourself out. You're not going to do extreme things that will, you're not going to be in an extreme calorie deficit because then you won't build muscle, you won't. Your workouts can't be extreme because you can't get hurt. Otherwise you won't stay consistent. And so that's why I love it. It makes you prioritize your muscle health. It allows you to slow down and make sustainable changes that you can actually keep going with even beyond the times that you reach your goal. So to back up, how do you do it? So for body recomposition, it's a combination of proper nutrition, proper recovery Proper strength training. So. So proper nutrition would be eating in a small calorie deficit. So 200 to 400 calories below your maintenance. Very small. It's not a huge cut.

A (63:09)

I love that. Yeah.

B (63:10)

Which is great because it's super sustainable.

A (63:12)

Cut out a couple cookies, one cookie.

B (63:15)

It's like one cookie and that's it. Then you're good. Exactly, exactly. Or like that's like a banana and peanut butter. Like, it's really not a lot.

A (63:23)

Yeah.

B (63:24)

So you're not gonna see rapid weight loss or fat loss, but again, that's why I like it. And then eating the high protein like we talked about. Strength training close to failure. Training each muscle group 2ish times per week on non consecutive days. And then just staying active overall, implementing the 150 minutes of cardio. And then of course, recovery is key. And when we see that you're sleep deprived, we see an effect on muscle growth. So. So protein synthesis isn't as high when you're sleep deprived. So this applies a lot to postpartum women who are ready to get their bodies back, quote, unquote. They're ready to body recomposition, but they're only getting three or four hours of sleep at night. And it's just like, unfortunately it's not time yet. Like, get the rest because you'll be running yourself into the ground and your training might not be super effective. Effective if. If you are just not getting a lot of sleep. So fuel yourself. Wait until you're getting more sleep and then try.

A (64:23)

I love that you're giving new moms, like postpartum moms some grace because so it's like sometimes you just like if you're only getting three hours of sleep, like, you're just not ready yet. And that's okay.

B (64:34)

And it's okay.

A (64:34)

And that's totally normal. And we all have to be patient. I'm even starting, I'm starting to feel that way where I'm 22 weeks and I'm like, I know it's going to be like an uphill battle for me here where I'm just like, I'm not feeling myself. I put on my, my dresses and the nose is a little wider than it used to be, you know, And I'm like, I have to remind myself like this. It's okay. It's just for the season. Like you're literally growing a child.

B (64:58)

Yes.

A (64:58)

And it's not always going to be like this and to just give yourself some grace. Because I think that's why a lot of us are so hard on our. With our workouts because we are just like, I don't want it to be like this. I want to change it. And it's like sometimes, like we just don't. Especially as pregnant women, like, we don't have that control anymore.

B (65:15)

Like, no. And it's, it's sad because I don't know if you feel this way, but I'll look back on pictures of myself during pregnancy. I'm like, I remember beating myself up that day and I look great. Like, my skin's glowing. Like, you know, like, that's so true. And honestly too, like, you're in the time frame. I think those, like that around that time frame, like 20ish weeks is kind of the hardest.

A (65:37)

Yeah.

B (65:37)

Because like dressing is hard because everything is. Doesn't fit the same. But like, you, like, you're, you're. You're yet to have that like really big cute bump. So it's like, it's like kind of that middle ground that's tough.

A (65:48)

It's so hard. And it's like just two weeks ago I was like, my face wasn't this puffy, you know.

B (65:54)

Right.

A (65:54)

And it's like, wow, that's so fast.

B (65:55)

So fast, so fast.

A (65:57)

But yeah, so we have to give our. Give ourselves the grace and just like be patient because this is just a season. And it's so true. This is my fourth. And I look back and I'm like, that really wasn't that long. Like, it was short.

B (66:07)

It was a short amount.

A (66:08)

It feels long while you're in it, but it's not.

B (66:11)

It does. And nobody else sees you. Like the way you're like, she's so cute. I know. Like, are you so cute? Are you so excited? You're like, I feel so ugly. This is not my face.

A (66:21)

Like, you know, and the best is when you're like, voice starts to change and then like your belly laugh starts. Starts to change and you're like, that didn't.

B (66:29)

I don't know if that happened to me.

A (66:30)

Oh my gosh. I. I swear I could sing like Shakira whenever I was in my, my third. I mean, my voice got really good because it was so deep and like, I was like, really? Like, I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah, it made laugh. Got like really like, like a, like a Santa Claus laugh. Because it was like. I don't know, it was, it was a better laugh, honestly, than my normal laugh. It was just so like deep.

B (66:56)

You're like, how do I keep this? How do I keep.

A (66:58)

I kind of like that part of it, yeah.

B (67:01)

So this is.

A (67:02)

So. This is so helpful. And, like, you obviously know your stuff. What. When it comes to Evlo. Because I know we have. We've been talking. Oh, we've been talking a long time. Oh, my gosh. Like, probably like double than we even needed to.

B (67:13)

I'm sorry.

A (67:13)

I just find this also interesting. You're doing great. My last question is, like, what is. What is different about. About eblo, like, compared to other programs out there? Because there are so many fitness programs these days. What do you feel like sticks out with eblo?

B (67:28)

Like, I've said, I think a couple times in this episode, but I just want to nail it home. There's such a difference between lifting weights and lifting weights with intention and lifting weights in a way that will actually build muscle without wearing you down. I think a lot of workouts these days are focused on just making you feel like you worked hard, not making you feel like you worked in the right ways. And there's a big difference of working in the right ways, of you can just work hard and grind your gears, but not really get anywhere. Um, so I think we're very intentional with every single thing that we do. There's always a why behind every. Everything that we do. And I think what our members tell us is that I've. They've tried everything. They've tried all the types of workouts, and they see the best results, but they feel the best doing our workouts. And it's because we're working with your physiology. Um, and we're not just doing something just because it might make you sweat or it might make you feel like you got a hard workout in. We're actually doing it because it's what's going to be best for you. Um, so I think.

A (68:25)

And you're catered to women.

B (68:26)

Yes, but my husband has been doing our workouts. He's built so much muscle. I believe that in the past, like, three years. And he's. He's like an Evlon now.

A (68:36)

It's so.

B (68:36)

It's so cute because I'm like, you don't have to do our workouts. Like, I understand if you want to go do something else. And he's like, no, like. Like, I don't want to do anything else.

A (68:42)

Guys are so weird in the gym. They only do, like, three things, like, over and over and over again. It's like, you gotta change it up, bro.

B (68:48)

They're so set in their ways. And he's like.

A (68:51)

He was.

B (68:51)

He's an athletic guy, like, he did. You know, he played everything in. In. In high school. But, yeah, he's like, no, I just. I want to feel good. I. This. This works. But, yeah, we. We primarily have women as members, but men can do it too.

A (69:07)

So how can people not only find Evlo, but how can they find you as well?

B (69:12)

I'm Dr. Shannadpatti. On Instagram, I like to post a lot of educational content.

A (69:16)

I love that.

B (69:17)

Yes.

A (69:18)

You're so cute. Like, you're like, the full package. She's beautiful. She's sweet.

B (69:23)

While you're, like, you're serious.

A (69:26)

Wow, Mom. Like, it's really cool.

B (69:29)

Oh, my gosh. Underneath the surface, everything is cracking and breaking. So don't be fooled.

A (69:32)

It's all of us. It's all of us hanging out off. Yeah.

B (69:36)

But no, it's. It's awesome. It's. It's a fun. I honestly, I have the best job ever. I'm obsessed with it. I don't know if you could tell by, like, how fast I get talking. I'm just like, I'm so passionate about it, but. So you can find me there. I'm on Tik Tok, too. And then Evo Fitness Instagram, and Evo fitness dot com. Can we offer your audience a code? Yes. Okay.

A (69:55)

Yes. Tell us about the treat that we have for the audience.

B (69:58)

Yes. So we. We could do a month free. So basically, it's you get your first two weeks free and then the first month for $0. So you could use Danny D D A N D A N I. Specifically what you use. Yeah. Okay. So Dani @checkout evil fitness.com.

A (70:14)

Oh, my gosh. And so we will put that link in the show notes for you guys if you guys want to check it out. Make sure you follow her on all the socials. I love that you are a doctor of, like, physical therapy, so you really. You really know what you're talking about. Trust me, guys, I know because I took these classes, and it was a little too, too hard for me. Okay. Like, I'm telling you, I have a hard time believing that this girl's a smart girl. And so thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I know this is the first time that you've left your baby, which is like, I know that's a really hard.

B (70:43)

Thing to do, but it's a little treat. Like, it's kind of like I'm like, oh, I had a morning to myself.

A (70:48)

I know. It is glorious. I'm like, I don't remember the last time I slept past, like, 6:30.

B (70:52)

I know. Me either.

A (70:53)

It's so nice.

B (70:54)

It is.

A (70:54)

So.

B (70:54)

I mean, of course I couldn't sleep, but, like, I still could, like, take my time.

A (70:58)

Time.

B (70:58)

Like, not go get a screaming baby. Like, it was amazing.

A (71:00)

No, we really appreciate you being here and sharing all of this knowledge and wisdom and information with us. I think what you're doing is so inspiring. I think you're going to help, and you are helping so many women. And so we really appreciate you.

B (71:13)

Oh, well, thank you for having me. And I forgot to tell people that I have a podcast, too. It's called Dr. Shannon Show. So we do. If you like all this nerdy stuff, they can go check that out.

A (71:21)

What's it called?

B (71:22)

The Dr. Shannon Show.

A (71:23)

The Dr. Shannon Show. And is it on Spotify?

B (71:25)

Yes. Everywhere. Everywhere.

A (71:27)

Is it just yours?

B (71:28)

Yes, just me. I do a lot of solo. I do some guests, but mostly just solo. Like, quick solo episodes. Research. Yeah.

A (71:35)

Oh, research.

B (71:36)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like it.

A (71:38)

I love science backed. Like, I need to know this fact.

B (71:40)

I can tell that's.

A (71:42)

Well, thank you so much for coming. We love you. And guys, we'll talk to you later. Bye.

B (71:46)

Bye. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.