“1 in a 400 year event”

Summary

Podcast Summary: “1 in a 400 Year Event” | Deadline: White House (Feb 19, 2026)
Host: Nicolle Wallace
Featured Guests: Tara Palmeri, Michael Scherer, Christy Greenberg, Khadijah Safdar

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the historic arrest of former Prince Andrew by UK authorities—an event not seen regarding British royalty in 400 years. The arrest, on suspicions of sharing confidential government information with Jeffrey Epstein, reignites global debates about elite accountability and the unresolved, sprawling legacy of the Epstein scandal. Drawing on new revelations, bipartisan political responses, global consequences, and investigative journalism, the discussion covers survivors’ voices, legal implications, and what justice means in a world historically unwilling to prosecute the wealthy and powerful.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Arrest of Former Prince Andrew and Its Significance ([00:51]–[05:46])

• Historic Context: Prince Andrew’s arrest marks the first time in centuries a senior royal has faced criminal action in the UK, highlighting stark contrasts in legal accountability between the UK and U.S.
• Allegations: Focus on Andrew allegedly sharing confidential state info with Epstein and the larger background of sexual abuse allegations, notably from Virginia Roberts Giuffre.
• Survivors’ Impact: Virginia Giuffre’s family responds with gratitude to the UK police, emphasizing that “no one is above the law, not even royalty.”
  • Quote: “At last today, our broken hearts have been lifted at the news that no one is above the law, not even royalty…For survivors everywhere, Virginia did this for you.” – Giuffre family statement ([02:52])
• Political Reaction: Bipartisan support in Congress for transparency and calls for justice in the U.S. following the UK’s actions.
  • Quote: “Prince Andrew was just arrested. This was the metric I established for the success of the Epstein Files Transparency act...Now we need justice in the United States.” – Rep. Thomas Massie ([03:44])

2. Survivor Testimony and the Power of Royalty ([05:46]–[11:23])

• Virginia Giuffre’s Story: Co-host Tara Palmeri reflects emotionally on Giuffre’s struggle and posthumous vindication.
  • Quote: “I’m overwhelmed for her. I’m sad that she’s not alive to see this. I know how hard it was for her for so many years to be dragged by the British press…” – Tara Palmeri ([05:46])
• Royal Shield: Discussion of entrenched media and social power protecting Andrew and other elites, even as survivors faced derision and disbelief.

3. Media Complicity and Changing Public Sentiment ([07:56]–[13:43])

• Press Manipulation: ABC’s spiked Giuffre interview, the role of tabloids, and the shift after catastrophic press.
• The Thin Charges: Michael Scherer likens Andrew’s arrest to Al Capone's tax evasion, noting the charges are tangential compared to the actual crimes alleged.
  • Quote: “Even this arrest...isn’t for any of the acts that Virginia and the other women have alleged against him...It’s like Al Capone being arrested for tax evasion.” – Michael Scherer ([12:28])

4. Legal and Investigative Analysis ([13:43]–[19:41])

• Prosecutorial Choices: Discussion of missed opportunities for prosecution in the U.S. and UK, and the lack of interagency and international cooperation.
• Potential Leverage: Could Andrew “flip” and help unravel broader trafficking operations? Christy Greenberg explains the usual process and points to reluctance or lack of will until public outrage forced action.
  • Quote: “There is a will from the public to see accountability. And that is what is driving this arrest today.” – Christy Greenberg ([17:23])

5. Interview and Breakthrough Reporting ([31:37]–[41:06])

• Wall Street Journal Investigation: Reporter Khadijah Safdar discusses a pivotal moment in 2016 when French model agent Jean Luc Brunel was close to testifying against Epstein, an effort that was scuttled.
  • Quote: “This was significant because what we learned here was that Jean Luc Brunel...was going to cooperate. And then we saw that email...where Epstein learned of the meeting and...asked for $3 million so that Jean Luc would not go in.” – Khadijah Safdar ([34:01])
• Elite Protection Networks: Safdar and Greenberg dissect the actions of top figures like Kathy Rummler, showing complicity and attempts to shield Epstein.
  • Quote: “[Rummler’s] take is that he is the victim. I mean that is astonishing.” – Christy Greenberg ([38:44])

6. Enduring Power Structures and Public Outrage ([23:01]–[30:40])

• Universal Distrust: Wallace notes that almost all Americans, regardless of partisanship, agree that powerful people are rarely held accountable.
  • Quote: “86% of all Americans...agree that the Epstein files show that powerful people are rarely held accountable.” – Nicolle Wallace ([23:01])
• Transatlantic Accountability: As global figures resign and are charged, pressure mounts for similar consequences in the U.S., especially with bipartisan demand and fresh legal initiatives.

7. Emerging Developments ([27:29]–[28:44])

• New Mexico DOJ Probe: Fresh action announced to revisit Epstein’s alleged crimes at his New Mexico property, a locale previously ignored by federal investigators.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Only the sociopath who turns out to actually be engaged in child sex trafficking calls himself, ‘too honorable.’” – Nicolle Wallace ([09:42])
• “It’s revealing how many people are in leadership positions...and they’re not high minded. In fact, when you read these Epstein files...they’re mostly about sex and how to avoid penalties and how to, like, control the system.” – Tara Palmeri ([24:12])
• “If [Starmer] were being honest...it’s about the elite protecting each other...And what the Epstein files...do is...blow that apart. It provides ammunition to...describe exactly how that protection scheme worked.” – Michael Scherer ([25:44])
• “Some prominent people in politics, business, and academia...consoled him, cast him as a victim, and in some cases, they offered advice on how to rehabilitate his image.” – Khadijah Safdar ([38:50])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:51 – Opening: Arrest of Prince Andrew and fallout
• 02:52 – Giuffre family statement after arrest
• 05:46 – Palmeri on Virginia Giuffre’s legacy and survivor stories
• 08:33 – Excerpts from previous interviews and Prince Andrew’s denials
• 11:50 – Michael Scherer on media, royal response, and protection of elites
• 13:43 – Damage to royal family’s image and lasting effects
• 15:33 – Christy Greenberg on investigatory history, legal options
• 23:01 – Discussion of overwhelming public sentiment for accountability
• 27:29 – New Mexico DOJ’s fresh investigation into Epstein property
• 31:37 – Wall Street Journal’s Khadijah Safdar on pivotal missed break with Jean Luc Brunel
• 38:44 – Dissecting how elite circles rationalized Epstein’s conviction
• 41:06 – Reflections on powerful people’s denial and post-conviction rationalization

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Flow and Relevance

Throughout, the tone is urgent, at times incredulous, and grounded in survivor advocacy and systemic critique. The hosts and guests ping between personal stories, legal minutiae, political context, and implications for both justice and institutional legitimacy. The episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking a detailed, multi-angle exploration of the post-Epstein world and the slow, public struggle for truth and accountability.

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For listeners seeking clarity, accountability, and the honest, raw details—including those skipped or flattened by headlines—this episode delivers exhaustive context and analysis. The message is clear: the battle between power and justice, long shielded by secrecy, is being pushed into the open—one shocking file, testimony, and resignation at a time.

Transcript

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[Nicole Wallace]

Hi everyone, it's 4 o' clock in New York. The fallout from the revelations in the Epstein files has now led to a 1 in 400 year event. Authorities in the United Kingdom arresting former Prince Andrew early this morning. It is nothing short of a stunning moment and one that only makes the lack of accountability over here in the United States of America all the more glaring. Prince Andrew was arrested today by authorities on suspicions of public misconduct. The accusation specifically is that he shared confidential government information with Jeffrey Epstein. This photo shows him leaving the police station just a little bit ago. There have been calls for accountability for former Prince Andrew for years now, particularly from one of Jeffrey Epstein's most prominent and known victims, Virginia Roberts Giuffre. She had said that Epstein trafficked her to Andrew, who then raped her multiple times. Andrew has denied that and any wrongdoing in relation to his ties with Jeffrey Epstein. In 2022, he settled a lawsuit with Virginia Jeffrey for an undisclosed amount. Here's Virginia in her own words, describing what happened to her in a BBC documentary in 2019. So Andrew drives in the other car. He's not with us, he's with his security guards. And in the car, Ghislaine tells me that I have to do for Andrew what I do for Jeffrey. And that made me sick. I just didn't expect it from royalty. The whole entire procedure, it was disgusting. He wasn't mean or anything, but he

[Khadijah Safdar]

got up and he said thanks and walked out.

[Nicole Wallace]

And I sat there in bed just horrified and ashamed and felt dirty and I had to get up and grab a shower.

[Tara Palmeri]

And

[Nicole Wallace]

it was a wicked time in my life.

[Khadijah Safdar]

It was a really scary time in my life.

[Nicole Wallace]

Today her family is speaking out, saying this in a statement, quote, at last today, our broken hearts have been lifted at the news that no one is above the law, not even royalty. On behalf of our sister, Virginia Roberts Giuffre, we extend Our gratitude to the UK's Thames Valley Police for their investigation and arrest of Andrew Mountbatten Windsor. He was never a prince. For survivors everywhere, Virginia did this for you. At news that UK authorities arrested a member of the Royal family, something that has not happened since the 17th century is crazy, but it only underscores the lack of any law enforcement activity here in this country. None. Or even the lack of any real accountability for the people whose ties to Jeffrey Epstein call into question whether they ever had the judgment to hold positions of power or influence in the first place. Republican Congressman Thomas Massie tweeted this quote, prince Andrew was just arrested. This was the metric I established for the success of the Epstein Files Transparency act that Representative Ro Khanna and I got passed. Now we need justice in the United States. It's time for AG Pam Bondi and FBI Director Kash Patel to act. His colleague and co sponsor of the Epstein bill, Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna, said this quote, even princes are not above the law. Representative Thomas Massie and I forced the release of an email showing former Prince Andrew allegedly shared state information with Epstein. On February 9th, I called on King Charles to investigate and answer questions. Andrew is being held accountable because of the survivors. People like Virginia Giuffre who bravely spoke up. We've also seen Sultan Ahmed bin Salman resign from DP World, the former Norwegian Prime Minister be charged with gross corruption, Peter Mandelson be fired as ambassador and step down from the House of Lords, Katherine Ruemmler stepped down from Goldman Sachs and other examples of accountability around the world. But why isn't more being done here? We should start with Howard Lutnick resigning. The downfall of a prince breathing new life into calls for accountability for associates of Jeffrey Epstein. This high up as members of Trump's own Cabinet is where we start today. Tara Palmeri is, of course, here with us. She writes the Red Letter on Substack, has hosted two podcast series on the Epstein case. Also joining us, New York Times senior correspondent Michael Scheer, who covers British politics and culture. And joining me at the table, legal analyst Christy Greenberg is here. She's a former criminal Division deputy chief at STMY. She's the host of the YouTube show Courtside. Tara, I know of all of us here you are someone who knew Virginia and you know the family, and you knew her story. Your thoughts today?

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, I'm overwhelmed for her. I'm sad that she's not alive to see this. I know how hard it was for her for so many years to be dragged by the British press. By so many people for making, you know, allegations against then the Prince Andrew, and to now see that so many of the things that he has said were lies. You know, the fact that he claimed that he cut off all contact with Epstein was lies. Now we're seeing he was actually trading information, you know, privileged information to Jeffrey Epstein as trade envoy. This insane thing that. This insane theory he said about, oh, I can't sweat from the war in the Falcons, and. And then even denying that the picture that they had together, that it was even a real picture, and it's just his credibility has been completely shattered. Virginia is not the only survivor that I have spoken with who are members Prince Andrew distinctly and remembers being around him. She remembered him using a puppet to grab the hands of a puppet to grab her breasts. So, you know, we're getting a much clearer picture of who Prince Andrew really is, who this man is versus the man that he claims to be. Right? And I agree with Massie and Kanna that this would have never come to light without the Epstein files Transparency Act. And yet we still have two and a half million more documents that we don't know that we'll never see. And is this for national security purposes? Is this to protect other people? Is this really about the victims? Because even of the 3.5 million that we've seen, we know that they've redacted the names of powerful men. So there's still so much more, Nicole. And just to think that the few files that we have that they have caused, they have started a domino effect to fall. And will it hit our shores? One can only hope. But this is an amazing day for Virginia and for her family.

[Nicole Wallace]

I don't want to rush over what Virginia said happened to her and what the allegations are against former Prince Andrew. So let me just show people a little bit more about what it looked like when some of the allegations started to surface. And again, against a headwind, not just of naysayers, not just of sort of the classic misogyny, but against sort of the machine around royalty. This is former Prince Andrew. In 2019,

[Christy Greenberg]

you were staying at the house of a convicted sex offender.

[Michael Scherer]

It was a convenient place to stay. I mean, I've gone through this in

[Nicole Wallace]

my mind so many times.

[Michael Scherer]

At the end of the day, with the benefit of all the hindsight that one can have, it was definitely the wrong thing to do. But at the time, I felt it was the honourable and right thing to do. And I admit fully that my judgment was probably colored by my tendency to be too honorable. But that's just the way it is.

[Christy Greenberg]

Because during that time, those few days, witnesses say they saw many young girls coming and going at the time. There is video footage of Epstein accompanied by young girls. And you were there staying in his

[Nicole Wallace]

house, catching up with friends.

[Michael Scherer]

I never. I mean, if they were, then I wasn't a party to any of that.

[Nicole Wallace]

Only the sociopath who turns out to actually be engaged in child sex trafficking calls himself, quote, too honorable. Not just honorable, but, quote, too honorable. What was his role in the abuse?

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, as Virginia has said consistently, she was brought to the UK and told to do to Prince Andrew what she did for Jeffrey Epstein. And, like, the details that she had, what she wore, that Ghislaine Maxwell took her shopping to go get her a Burberry outfit, which is something she remembered in detail. She remembered going to a nightclub with him and the fact that he was sweating. She remembered. She remembered being in the bed with him, the bathtub. I mean, it. This is. And for so long, the way that this story has been reported was that she was a teen whore, a teen slut, that. That she had done something wrong. And. And you're right. I mean, that is the power of the royals. And she was supposed to do an interview with ABC News. And in Amy Robach's own words, I mean, she was caught on a hidden camera in. She said that that was. That. That interview was killed because the network wanted to maintain a relationship with the family. There is a gravitational force around the royals there. This is the first time in 400 years that a senior royal has been arrested.

[Christy Greenberg]

And.

[Tara Palmeri]

And that says something that is power protecting itself. But this is just. This is a line that has been crossed. But when are we going to have those lines defined in our own country?

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, it's insane, Michael. I'm not a royal expert, I'm not a royal fan, I'm not a royal hater. But even with my lack of expertise, I would observe that the Royal Family is seemingly responsive only to catastrophic press. And I wonder if you can just tell me what your reporting is. How did we get to what happened today?

[Michael Scherer]

Yeah, I mean, it's a good point. I mean, look, the media environment here is pretty rabid. We have a culture. The British newspapers are. Many of them are tabloids. They're like a dog with a bone. And I think the reaction in these last few weeks to what Tara and you have described as this onslaught of documents and revelations has been pretty relentless. And so I think there came a point in the last couple of weeks where the King acknowledged finally that in a statement that he would cooperate fully with the police if there was an arrest. I think that was a green light finally, to cut through that veil of protection that Tara talked about that has historically been around the royals. And I think that. But I think you have to go back years and understand that that veil of protection was in place. You know, Andrew was, you know, given slaps on the wrist along the way. He had his title taken away from him. He, before that, stepped away from his royal duties, but all of that was essentially minimal. And I think the point that you don't want to miss here is that in the end, even this arrest, although Virginia Giuffre's family, you know, hailed it as a big moment, and it is. But even this arrest isn't for any of the acts that Virginia and the other women have alleged against him. This is a. This is like Al Capone, you know, being. Being arrested for tax evasion. I mean, it's, it's. It's a. It's a serious charge, and he could end up spending years in prison if he's evicted. But it's not, it's not what everybody thought he would ultimately be charged with.

[Nicole Wallace]

What is the impact of this story and Andrew's role in a sex trafficking ring that ensnared children? I mean, does that. I guess you need to understand the baseline of how the royal family is held, what his place in it is, and whether or not this damages the brand, if you will, of the modern royals.

[Michael Scherer]

I mean, I think that a lot of damage has been done over the years, and I think the story, as outlined so eloquently and horrifyingly by Virginia Giuffre, I mean, the message that has been out there for more than a decade, that he was involved in that kind of thing, has been a real deep wound to the establishment of the. Of the royals and to the. To the monarchy. But I think the question really becomes now, in the last few weeks, the. The King, Prince William, Princess Kate, have all tried desperately to distance themselves from him in every way that they could, issuing statements and the like. And so I guess ultimately the question is if this is where. If this is the end of it, if he simply, you know, gets charged with, you know, this, this, you know, documents offense and doesn't get charged ultimately with anything more, how bad will that be? I mean, I think. I think, you know, the monarchy clearly survives and they sort of cut. Cut Andrew off and they go forward.

[Nicole Wallace]

What is your sense of how and whether he could be helpful to any of the other potential investigations happening all

[Christy Greenberg]

around the world, he absolutely could be helpful. So just taking a step back in 2019 when SDNY prosecutors went to get a search warrant for electronic devices in the US Virgin Islands and in his penthouse in New York, they cited emails where Maxwell was talking about procuring young girls for Jeffrey Epstein. They cited several of them. Can you find me inappropriate friends? I believe was one of the emails and talked about setting him up with people in Peru for two legged sightseeing. I mean they were just gross emails. And they cite an FBI agent in an affidavit signed I interpret these as evidence of sex trafficking and that's why we should have probable cause to be able to search these devices in his homes. So SDNY knew back then that there was real evidence there of his engagement in sex trafficking. And Jeff Berman in his book talks about the fact that, hey, Prince Andrew is going out there and saying that he is willing to cooperate. We are trying to reach out to him and he is not cooperating. So our doors are open, come in and talk to us. And he wasn't what the. He wasn't exact doing what he said he was doing. And so they clearly felt at that time in 2019 that he had useful information for their investigations into Maxwell, into Epstein and even into potentially other co conspirators that they were looking at. So I think he is somebody that should be spoken to. And the question is, why is this happening now? When again that was known back then? You would think that there would be cooperation between the UK and the US with law enforcement there to compel him to cooperate, to get him to cooperate. Especially when there were these, there was evidence of other criminality that the UK clearly just has jurisdiction over. Like that could have been some kind of an exchange of information between the two countries of hey, help us with our sex trafficking information. We also have evidence here. It seems like there wasn't really a will for that on the UK side. And so where does that come from? Now there is the will and it's because of these survivors. Even though he has not been charged with sex trafficking, that should not take away at all from what these survivors have done. Because by passing this act and by having this all out in the open, I mean there is a will from the public to see accountability. And that is what is driving this arrest today.

[Nicole Wallace]

What is the prospect for sort of an investigation? And I've asked members of Congress this question too. But for an investigation in the UK to help illuminate some potential subjects or targets in this country.

[Christy Greenberg]

I mean, they absolutely should be trying to talk to him. But if you think about it, he doesn't have a great incentive to really share something that is clear. The sex trafficking crimes are clearly more serious than what he's currently been charged with. So.

[Nicole Wallace]

But do you think they hold that out as you know, if you cooperate, if you and I mean, they've got Mandelson, too. I mean, if the two of you help us piece together the trafficking operation, I mean, you've got him acknowledging that they all saw young women coming in and out. Which did they think? I mean, he didn't run a modeling agency. Why did they think they were there? I mean, what is if you withhold a potential prosecution on the child's sex trafficking ring, can you leverage him as a witness against other co conspirators?

[Christy Greenberg]

I mean, I can't speak to how they would do it in the UK Here, it's pretty hard to have somebody be a cooperating witness and not actually acknowledge that they are guilty of the thing themselves first and then get some leniency there and saying, okay, you did this, you're guilty of this, but you can help us get up other people and learn more about how this organization worked and really provide value and substantial assistance to prosecutors. I'm certain that that would be a conversation that prosecutors would be open to having. Again, assuming prosecutors in this country are even interested in pursuing it, which they continue to tell us that they are not interested in pursuing it. But everything that has happened over the last few weeks since all of these files have been released tells us that there are more questions to be answered.

[Nicole Wallace]

All right, no one's going anywhere. There's a lot more to show you. I want to share some the voices from the survivors who are responsible for bringing all of this to light and putting this in motion. Also ahead for us, while accountability is seeming to reach new heights around the world and calls are growing for some semblance of accountability at home. There's brand new reporting in the Wall Street Journal on what could have been, should have been, might have been a huge break in the Jeffrey Epstein case, but then it just disappeared. The reporter on that exclusive story joins us coming up. Also had the slow creep of Trump's election takeover, from the steps he's taking in the state of Georgia to news that his Department of Homeland Security is working with the White House to intimidate naturalized citizens from voting in future elections. We'll have all those stories and more today on deadline. White HOUSE continues after a quick break so don't go anywhere.

[Michael Scherer]

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[Nicole Wallace]

I think it's a shame. I think it's very sad. I think it's so bad for the Royal Family. It's a very, very sad. To me, it's a very sad thing when I see that. It's a very sad thing to see it and to see what's going on with his brother, who's obviously coming to our country very soon. And he's a fantastic man, the king. So I think it's a very sad thing. It's really interesting because nobody used to. To speak about Epstein when he was alive, but now they speak. But I'm the one that can talk about it because I've been totally exonerated. I did nothing. Not for nothing. Nobody asked him, but okay, Tara. He did do something, though. He called, as Chrissy just reminded us. The Palm beach sheriff described Ghislaine Maxwell as totally evil. He also, in his own telling, was mad that Jeffrey Epstein took. Took someone from him and that someone stole. Was Virginia. Stole someone from him. Was Virginia.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. It's interesting, right? And now the Epstein files are all about exonerating him, not what they're revealing to the public about a story that has been obviously not a story, but a case that has been pushed aside for so long. It's a sad day. I mean, a lot of people feel vindicated. I think most people feel that way. I think a lot of people feel like finally power is no longer protecting itself anymore, that even elites have to face to face the music sometimes. But perhaps in the President's world, that's not the case. Some people are kings and they don't have to deal with this. So I don't think the rest of America, especially not the people that voted for him, the populist base would think it was so sad that someone who committed a crime didn't have to pay for it.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, I mean, to that point, 86% of all Americans, that's almost strongly or somewhat disagree with the statement that The Epstein files show that powerful people agree with the fact that the Epstein files show that powerful people are rarely held accountable. Only 11% of people disagree with him, which is probably the membership at Mar a Lago. I mean, this is like a 9010 issue. There is no disagreement in the country that, yes, for kings and presidents and then, I guess, commerce secretaries, there's no consequence to being associated with a dead, convicted child sex trafficker. But even the Lutnik statement, the Lutnik statement is so important because it projects such knowledge of child predation. He says, I went in with three nannies and three kids, and I came out with those three nannies and three kids. Like, nobody asked him, nobody asked for a head count, nobody asked if he took role in and out. But only someone who knows that young children and women were potential prey for Jeffrey Epstein says before Congress, I went to the island for lunch. Oops, sorry, forgot to tell you. But I went in with three nannies and I came out with those three nannies. Wow.

[Tara Palmeri]

Right? It's a little oversharing, right? And the same way, the same way that he, some would say overshared when he volunteered to the New York Post in that podcast that he only went to his neighbor Jeffrey Epstein's house once and he was creeped out and he was there with his wife and he quickly left. But it was just kind of like a voyeuristic interest in seeing what goes on in there. He saw a massage table, just volunteered that, and turns out he was lying all along. He said he cut off contact after that. No, you wanted to go to his island. Elon Musk, who was like, Trump's going to have blown up in the Epstein files. And here he is being like, party, party, party. Can I come to your island? Girls, girls, girls. It's like, okay, bro, we know what you're all about. It's just, it's revealing how many people are in leadership positions or close to those, you know, advising those in leadership positions. And they're not high minded people. They're not thinking about their roles in society or trying to better society. In fact, when you read these Epstein files, they're mostly about sex and how to avoid penalties and how to, like, control the system. They're not about doing any good for the world.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, Michael, let me, let me ask you that. I mean, cares. Prime Minister Starmer's prime ministership was at least a week ago in a tenuous state. Does he have any interest to be a good actor here and aggressively investigate these Allegations.

[Michael Scherer]

I mean, he does, I think, and there's no connection, direct connection that he has to the files. But the problem is that his judgment has been called into question. A reason that his, his premiership was at risk was because, rightly, people pointed out that he had appointed Peter Mandelson to be Ambassador to the US At a time when there was lots publicly known about the relationship between Peter Mandelson and Jeffrey Epstein. And, you know, the question that the Prime Minister's critics have asked repeatedly is how could you do that? And the answer, I think, really, if Starmer were being honest and all these other people were being honest, is that it's about the elite protecting each other. Right. That's what people have been so frustrated about with the royals protecting each other. And I think the reason it appeals to Trump's populist base is that there's at least this, this sense that has helped to power Trump to office the first time and again the second time, that somehow there is this kind of elite group of rich, connected, you know, lawyers, business executives, politicians who all look out for each other. And what the Epstein files, the release of the documents do is it finally blows that apart. It provides ammunition to show to describe exactly how that protection scheme worked. And, you know, to your question about Starmer, I mean, I think he's got an interest in pushing some of these prosecutions, but it's sort of self interested now because it's a way of defending himself and the judgments that he made

[Nicole Wallace]

early on right after the fact. Here's something else. Yeah, this news has broken since we've been on the air, Christy, and I'll just read it to you. Special agents and prosecutors at the New Mexico Department of Justice will be seeking immediate access to the complete unredacted federal case file and intend to work collaboratively with our law enforcement partners, as well as the Epstein Truth Commission, recently established by the New Mexico legislature, that is the New Mexico Department of Justice Chief of Staff and spokesperson Lauren Rodriguez, writing in an email statement. So another sort of tectonic shift following the passage of the Epstein Transparency act, new investigations, new scrutiny on the crimes that allegedly happened at Jeffrey Epstein's New Mexico residence.

[Christy Greenberg]

It's long overdue. It really didn't make sense to me. Why, when they went to execute search warrants in the U.S. virgin Islands and in Manhattan, why they also didn't look at New Mexico. We can see in the files there are plenty of victims who talked about New Mexico, who said they were abused in New Mexico. It would seem like that would provide the probable cause you would need to get a search warrant.

[Nicole Wallace]

It gets back to Tara's point that they didn't believe the women.

[Christy Greenberg]

I mean, possibly, I don't know. It's certainly an oversight and it's certainly something that I'm glad they're doing now. But this is years later. So how many documents, how many devices, how many things have been destroyed? I mean, you have a crime scene, and that's exactly what his ranch in New Mexico is. You preserve the crime scene so that they can't destroy. So, you know, I don't know how much they will be able to learn, but it's good that they're trying.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, I guess the last point here, Tara, is that Donald Trump tried to say there was nothing to see here. They made big binders, they filled them with a whole lot of nothing. They put out a memo in the middle of the night at the beginning of the summer and said, we've looked and there's nothing. Kash Patel, after going on Joe Rogan and saying there are a gazillion gigabytes of evidence, went before Congress and said there were no co conspirators. Nobody else committed crimes. Nobody else was a sex trafficker. The files come out because of a bipartisan act of Congress based on a public revolt. I mean, I sit here every day, I don't read the number. 86% of Americans agreeing that up is that way and down is that way. They agree on nothing and they believe. Right.

[Christy Greenberg]

There isn't a theory on that.

[Nicole Wallace]

And the politicians that there's some scheme to prevent accountability from happening.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, I mean, this is like a universal issue right now. It's creating a real uprising against the elites. And I don't think this is a bipartisan one, like you said. I think there needs to be some accountability in this case. There is a feeling that there is injustice. And the more we see our allies abroad actually pursuing justice in this case, I think the more Americans are going to get angry and wondering what's happening here. This is not going to stop at their shores.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. Well, we're going to continue to call on both of you, especially while the actions over there. We're happy that you're there. Michael Scherer, Tara Palmeri, thank you for starting us off. Christy sticks around after the break. Three years before Jeffrey Epstein was arrested for the last time, there was a big break in the case with one of his close associates ready to spill the beans and talk. Then he literally disappeared, went silent. The reporter with that breaking news is next.

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[Nicole Wallace]

There is some stunning new reporting, new journalism today that sheds light on a big missing piece of this, on something that should have been a huge break in the case against Jeffrey Epstein in our country. And it mysteriously fell apart. According to the Wall Street Journal's news story Back in 2016, longtime accomplice of Jeffrey Epstein, the French model scout Jean Luc Brunel, was going to testify against Jeffrey Epstein. Quote, Brunel was secretly negotiating in 2016 with lawyers representing Jeffrey Epstein's victims. According to newly released Justice Department files, Brennell's lawyer told them his client recruited girls for Epstein and had incriminating photographs. They discussed a date for Burnell to walk into the U.S. attorney's office in New York in exchange for immunity. But then the case faltered. Wall Street Journal reports this, quote, Epstein had discovered that negotiations with Burnell were taking place. The file show on May 3, he fired off an email to Kathy Rummler. He wrote that Brunel was planning to go to the U.S. attorney's office the following week and one of Brunel's friends had, quote, asked for $3 million so that Jean Luc would not go in, end quote. Rummler, who just announced that she will resign as the top lawyer at Goldman Sachs over her ties to the deceased sex offender, contacted both Jeffrey Epstein and his lawyers within hours and ultimately for now, went dark. A spokesperson for Kathy Rummler says this was an instance of Epstein trying to engage the lawyer on a matter she did not have knowledge of. As the Wall Street Journal reports, quote, it isn't clear why Brennell ultimately kept quiet. What is clear is that Brennell did not cooperate with prosecutors and Jeffrey Epstein remained free for another three years until he was arrested in 2019. Brunel was then arrested by French authorities in the year 2020, and Brunel died by suicide in his prison cell two years later. I want to bring in enterprise reporter for the Wall Street Journal, Khadisha Safdar, who was bylined on that bombshell piece of reporting. If the prince hadn't been arrested, this would have been our first Story. This was, to me, one of the most enlightening pieces of journalism around this case that I've read in a long time. Just take me through what you're reporting.

[Khadijah Safdar]

Thank you so much for having me. So we. We actually reported on schedules that showed that. That Kathy Rummler was close to Epstein back in 2023. And so this story has kind of been like an onion where we just keep, you know, as more files come out, as we learn more, we just keep peeling back layers. But so this was significant because what we learned here was that Jean Luc Brunel, he was a French modeling agent, and he was pretty core to Epstein's scheme. He involved in. They were both involved in a modeling agency together recruiting girls and young women. And they would secure visas and give the appearance of employment. And what it looks like is that their relationship may have frayed. In 2015, Brunel filed a lawsuit against Epstein, and his attorney was in contact with victims lawyers who were then also in contact with federal prosecutors. And we saw in the DOJ files the. The notes from this 2016 meeting that federal prosecutors had taken, and it confirmed that. That they had been told that Brunel was going to cooperate. And then we saw that email that you read aloud where Epstein learned of the meeting and Brunel's friend told. Asked for $3 million so that John Luke would not go in. And he sent that in an email to Kathy Rummler.

[Nicole Wallace]

What was Kathy Rummler's job at the time that she was emailing with Jeffrey Epstein about a possible cooperating witness with the government against Epstein?

[Christy Greenberg]

So she was.

[Khadijah Safdar]

She worked at a law firm, not at Goldman Sachs, where she's an attorney now, where she's a general counsel now. And she has said that she wasn't representing Epstein at the time. So that. That's been her statement. And then you read, obviously, the. The statement that we received from her spokeswoman.

[Nicole Wallace]

Was she recently out of government, though? I mean, why. Could you piece together why Epstein thought she. I mean, he basically is addressing her in the email, at least as a possible fixer.

[Khadijah Safdar]

So she formerly worked in the White House, but that wasn't what she was doing at this time. It's actually a little unclear what her role was here. That's part of what we've been doing in the reporting, is trying to figure that out.

[Nicole Wallace]

Incredible. And we also just have to rely on what they communicated with one another in writing. That's what's available to us. I want to ask you more about this incredible reporting and read from it. I have to sneak in a quick break. We'll be back on the other side. We're back with Khadijah and Christy. Christy, let me read you from Khadijah's new story. It says this, Epstein told Kathy Rummler that Brunel was afraid he would be arrested if he didn't show up. Quote, I want to know more. Epstein wrote he also dismissed Brunel's lawyer and his friend as scammers and cast doubt on their credibility. Kathy Rummler responded hours later asking Epstein to call her and explain. The next day she wrote, quote, awake now, talking to Poe in 20 minutes. Gregory Poe was Epstein's lawyer in Washington D.C.

[Christy Greenberg]

so I think what's puzzling about this is hurt so called defense is that she was not acting as his lawyer. She was not representing him. But that would actually make it better because if she was his criminal defense lawyer and he was her client, then she has an obligation to zealously advocate for him. Everybody in this country deserves to have a good defense lawyer, including Jeffrey Epstein. But she's made clear she didn't represent him. So this is just her in her personal capacity as a friend doing him a solid, trying to figure out how to make sure that a cooperating witness who could have the goods on him and deliver the to the prosecutors doesn't do that. I mean, that's really troubling. Like, why are you selling your soul for like gift cards from Bergdorf Goodman and Birkin bags and spa treatments? Like, it's such a fall from grace. And I think in addition to that, the other thing that I found really troubling about her was there was a document from March of 2019. This is just a few months before Epstein gets charged. And she's giving him advice about how to deal with the Washington Post coming out with an article about his sweetheart deal, Right. And she's saying, but for his wealth, the prosecutors wouldn't have treated him so aggressively. And the fact that the media is attacking him still 10 years later after he served his time just shows how malicious they are. Like, that's her take on this. Like her take is that he is the victim. I mean that is astonishing. And again, not being spoken from an approach of her as his criminal defense

[Nicole Wallace]

attorney or his public relations advisor that

[Christy Greenberg]

we know of, this is just, she's his friend. This is what she believes.

[Nicole Wallace]

Khadijah, you have a piece of reporting from February 10th that I want to read from because I think it adds this layer of why these powerful, otherwise impressive people don't Believe the women, why they stay friends with him. And I want to read from that reporting of yours, quote, some prominent people in politics, business and academia didn't just maintain ties with Jeffrey Epstein after his 2008 conviction for soliciting a minor for prostitution. They actively consoled him. They cast him as a victim. And in some cases, they offered advice on how to rehabilitate his image. Peter Mandelson, then serving as the European Commissioner for Trade, wrote to Jeffrey Epstein in June 2008, quote, I think the world of you. I feel hopeless and furious about what has happened, he told the convicted sex offender. In the summer of 2008, Jeffrey Epstein began serving his sentence at the Palm Beach County Stockade in June. Jess Staley, head of JPMorgan Chase's private bank, wrote this, quote, I hope you are hanging in there. Jeffrey Epstein replied the next day with career advice. By September, Staley, the head of JPMorgan Chase's private bank, wrote, quote, I miss you. And then, quote, I hope you keep the island. We may all need to live there. Why didn't they, why didn't they believe that the 2008 conviction for child sex, soliciting a child, a minor, for prostitution was real? Did they think he had a bad lawyer who got him a bad deal? Or why didn't they believe that he had committed the crime he was convicted of?

[Khadijah Safdar]

Well, I mean, I've heard a lot of different stories about, from different people about why they continued talking to him, but essentially, like, Epstein had a version of a story that he would tell that he said that he was. That somebody lied about their age. And it was one instance. And that is this, that is the version that people said that they believed and they then that's why they continued associating with him. But I mean, there was news stories out around the time that did document what happened with him in the police reports earlier during that period that we'd have found and we've reported on and referenced that in our reporting.

[Nicole Wallace]

It's a stunning body of reporting and the onion peeling back. And for us reading it, it's sort of like bricks is how I think of it. And this reporting is a really big and important one. Khadija Saptar, thank you for being here, bringing us your reporting. Christy, thank you for spending the whole hour with me across all these stories. When we come back, a Republican congressman under the microscope amid allegations that he had an affair with a staffer. But lots of silence from his Republican colleagues in Washington. He'll bring you that reporting next. You may not have heard of this guy, but Texas Republican Congressman Tony Gonzalez is in the news today. He's facing serious and troubling allegations of having an inappropriate relationship with a friend. That former staffer died by suicide last year. In text messages first obtained by his local paper, the San Antonio Express News, as well as by the New York Times, the now deceased aide, Regina Ann Santos Aviles, reportedly told a co worker this, quote, I had an affair with our boss and I'm fine, referring to Mr. Gonzalez, who is a married father of six children. Yesterday, Santos Aviles husband, Adrian, corroborated to the San Antonio Express News that she confessed to having an affair with her boss, Gonzalez, last year. In a statement, Gonzalez called Ms. Santos Aviles a, quote, kind soul who devoted her life to make the community a better place, but said he would not respond to the allegation of an affair. Members of Congress are prohibited from engaging in sexual relationships with members of their own staff. The situation has major political implications as Mike Johnson's House majority can only afford to lose one Republican vote. On Monday, Donald Trump endorsed this congressman's reelection. However, in light of their own reporting, though his paper, the San Antonio Express News, their editorial board rescinded the endorsement of Mr. Gonzalez. We'll stay on top of this story for you after the break. Donald Trump's desperate power grab in Georgia is one step closer to becoming a reality. We'll bring you that reporting right after a very short break.

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