Tim Miller (2:18)

Trump is doing a great job of securing our move. Well, the big beautiful bill is actually the Trump tax cut.

Eddie Glaude (2:35)

And I would also say that Trump.

Matt Dowd (2:38)

Is not a dictator and he's not.

Greenlight Advertiser (2:40)

Going to be a dictator.

Eddie Glaude (2:41)

You may think that he may have joked about that, quipped about that. That is his personality.

Matt Dowd (2:47)

I'm not a psychologist, but I'm not going.

Greenlight Advertiser (2:53)

To.

Eddie Glaude (2:53)

You're not helping me.

Matt Dowd (2:56)

Believe me, you're not helping me. You need to take your head out.

Eddie Glaude (3:02)

Of Trump's ass and start doing your.

Matt Dowd (3:06)

Your representation of us.

Stephanie Ruhle (3:12)

One of the representatives who held a town hall last week, Barry Moore of Alabama, left the event he held in his home district last week through the back door. Moore denied that he had to slip out saying, quote, we left like Any other event, I think we tried to engage and answer questions but unfortunately it got hijacked. But you don't have to take his word for it. Judge for yourself. Why are people not getting due process?

Christy (3:38)

Why are any criminal getting due process?

Tim Miller (3:40)

So due process for a citizen and.

Eddie Glaude (3:42)

A non citizen are different.

Greenlight Advertiser (3:46)

False, false lies.

Eddie Glaude (3:51)

The Fifth and 14th Amendments allow for it. The Supreme Court has backed it many times.

Tim Miller (4:00)

Shame, shame.

Eddie Glaude (4:12)

Bye, Felicia.

Stephanie Ruhle (4:21)

Today on Labor Day, that same anger we heard at town halls is being taken to the streets. More than a thousand workers over billionaires events are planned nationwide protesting against the ultra wealthy and corruption, looking instead to unify working class people. Today's protests are organized by the same group that led the massive protests on May 1. And they write the following quote, just like any bad boss, the way we stop the takeover is with collective action. We are Mayday, strong working people rising up to stop the billionaire takeover. Not just through the ballot box or the courts, but through building a bigger and stronger movement. The movement against Trump and his party's anti democratic ways is where we start this hour with three of my all time favorite gentlemen. The hosts of the Bulwark podcast, MSNBC political analyst Tim Miller, plus MSNBC senior political analyst and Texas resident Matt Dowd, and Princeton University professor and MSNBC political analyst Eddie Glaud. Mr. Miller, you get the first crack at this. Your reaction to Republican lawmakers getting it handed it to them at a whole bunch of town halls.

Tim Miller (5:33)

Hey girl. Well, it's good to be with you. They deserve it. Getting it handed to them. They're doing so few of these. I do think it's making it easy for people who are really engaged and really upset right now to organize and get out to those events. And that's what you're seeing, right? Like you know, we don't obviously Alabama is a red state, you know, that's, you know, overwhelmingly voting for Republicans. It doesn't mean that there are any Democrats in Alabama. There are Democrats, there are there independents, there are people that are Republicans who are unhappy with what's happening administration and those are the folks that are motivated to turn out right now. I think that the thing that is probably the most meaningful about this is, you know, that's what really drives midterm elections. Energy, engagement, like which side is more motivated to act. Like you're seeing these things that opponents of this administration, broadly defined are the ones that are the most engaged right now. I think that is a good sign for opposition. As we head into, I guess there'll be a couple elections this November and then mostly next November. So I think that's like, the biggest takeaway. I'm not sure that you're going to see much change in behavior from these Republicans. They didn't. Very few of them actually did town halls, and you can kind of see why.

Stephanie Ruhle (6:47)

Eddie, what do you think?

Eddie Glaude (6:50)

I completely agree. First of all, it's great to see you, Stephanie. I completely agree with Tim. I think this is a sign of, among a particular portion of the electorate, of deep disagreement with Trump's policies. I think that's only going to intensify as the tariffs begin to impact that grocery bill and the efforts to purchase goods for families and for children and the like. I think that's only going to intensify. But I've yet to see whether or not this is going to translate in terms of a spying for some of these Republicans as they see much more disagreement among the electorate with regards to Trump's policies. Will that embolden them to disagree with Donald Trump? I don't think so. Will it give them, you know, some cover, you know, to create some distance between themselves and Donald Trump's policies? I don't think so. So it's good for the midterms, I think, but in terms of their relationship to Donald Trump, I don't think anything will change.

Stephanie Ruhle (7:49)

Dr. Dowd, let's go to Chicago, because that is a city where Donald Trump may be deploying troops next. It was also one of the sites of the protest today. And I want to share a bit of sound from a couple of people who are there.

Eddie Glaude (8:05)

Are you concerned about the presence of.

Stephanie Ruhle (8:08)

Possibly seeing tanks and National Guard members on our streets?

Tim Miller (8:11)

Absolutely.

Stephanie Ruhle (8:13)

Absolutely. It's important to show up.

Eddie Glaude (8:17)

I mean, it's the only, only thing we have right now because Congress is just not doing the job to stop him. So he has no checks and balances except us, the people. That's it.

Stephanie Ruhle (8:32)

The people are the ultimate check on leadership. I'm pretty sure you agree with that, Matthew.

Matt Dowd (8:39)

Yeah, I'm just as I listen to that and watch this over the course of the last few days, I just can't help but think how far afield Donald Trump and the Republican Party has moved from conservative principles. It used to be local control and states rights was a huge plank of the conservatives. Not only that was rule of law, global trade, you know, balanced budgets, all of those things. They've thrown every conservative principle out, including this last one, which is local control. In the midst of this, in my view, Donald Trump is only using this to try to distract from all of his horrible situation he is in not only if you just take the Epstein situation with still so many unanswered questions. He's underwater on every major issue in the country right now. He's underwater on the economy. He's underwater on inflation. He's underwater immigration. He's underwater on health care. He's underwater on education, which is why his approval numbers are lower today than they were in 2018 when the Republican Party was, was defeated across the country. And we saw some of this energy in advance of that today that we, we saw it then, that we see today in this. But this is his sort of I'm going to go to the urban areas, which is like I'm going to go find black and brown people to blame for somebody else's problem in this. The American public just isn't accepting this because until you deal with the fundamental issues that they're facing, which is not what he, what Donald Trump is trying to act like it is in Washington, D.C. or Chicago or any other major city. It's that the prices that they have, it's the economy, it's they can't sell their homes, it's the cost of health care. And I think until Donald Trump addresses those, which I don't think he wants to, which is why he's distracting in this, he continues to throw these things out to try to do that because he's deeply underwater.

Stephanie Ruhle (10:32)

Tim, Iowa is certainly the reddest of red states. But now we've learned in the last couple of days that Iowa Senator Joni Ernst, obviously Republican, is not going to seek reelection. We do not know why, but I think we all remember that town hall that she held in May when she responded to questions about Medicaid cuts, saying everyone will die. That did not go over well. And despite your feelings for this president, I know you still have a lot of Republicans on speed dial. What do you know about her recent decision not to seek reelection?

Tim Miller (11:04)

Sure. And especially in Iowa. I've done a couple of campaigns, have a lot of friends that are working there. Look, I think this actually goes back to the Hegseth confirmation really more than the town hall at the time. You know, we might all roll our eyes at this because the Republicans always seem to fold in the Senate. But that doesn't mean that at least some of them weren't like, really seriously contemplating their political choices. In the fallout from Trump's second election, he's nominating all these people that are clearly unqualified for Ernst. I think she was hoping she might have been on the secretary of defense list. She gets passed over for a weekend Fox and Friends anchor. She has deep concerns, personal concerns about sexual assault in the military. He has allegations of sexual assault against him. Obviously isn't gonna take that very seriously. Has shown disrespect to women in service. And so there was a lot of pressure on her then to vote for him. And I think that she didn't really want to just projecting a little bit from what I've heard from Friends and she ends up voting for him. And here she is now in this situation in the Senate where you just gotta do whatever Donald Trump says. You have no independence, you're getting shouted down at town hall. It's not a fun job. So I don't have any sympathy for it. It's a job that she signed up for. But I think if you think about it in that context, it makes sense. She's not gonna run. And Iowa is a pretty deep red state now. It was purple not that long ago. Matt Dow can talk to you about that. I think some of his candidates won Iowa a few times not too long ago. So I don't, you know, who knows what happens with the Republicans there. I think if they nominate a mainstream type MAGA Republican, one of the Congresswoman Ashley Hinson, that she probably will be a favorite. If they nominate a lunatic, it could be a state that comes into play for the Democrats particularly, you know, if we continue to see the momentum that we're seeing, you know, from, from turnout and engagement folks on, on the left.

Stephanie Ruhle (12:53)

What do you think, Matt?

Matt Dowd (12:56)

I think I was going to be in play and I think Joni Ernst, no matter what she might say publicly, is worried about it was worried about a reelection, I think less so having to do with, with the town hall and what she did and the mistakes she made than the recent special election that just happened for the state Senate and where a democr red district, a 10 point Donald Trump district, the Democrat won by 10 points. And we're seeing that in every special election, not only in Iowa, around the country. And this idea that people think somebody's safe because they are in a 10 or a 12 point district or state is no longer the case because it's about a 15 or 16 point Democratic advantage through the special elections in this. So I think she looked at that, didn't want to go through an expensive campaign that I, I think she thought she, the odds are were against her in this. But I think places like Iowa and I think North Carolina for sure with an open Senate race and the former governor running I think Texas is going to be in play because the awful Republican primary that's going to be held there between the Attorney General and the incumbent senator. And so I, I, if you had asked me six months ago did I think the Democrats had a real shot at taking the Senate, I would have said no. Today, I think they actually have a real shot at taking the Senate.

Stephanie Ruhle (14:11)

Eddie, what do you think? Because for months Democrats have been criticized, people have said they're not doing enough to show voters they're in the fight. Do you think that has changed? How do you think they're doing now?

Eddie Glaude (14:23)

No, I think, you know, the criticism, the criticisms are right, spot on in most cases. I think most voters just simply see who's in office. They see Trump's policies, they see how anti Democratic he is and his administration is, and they see what the Republican Party represents. And so I think it's a vote more against the incumbent than for the Democrats in most instances. And that matters. That makes sense. But I think it's important for us as we kind of begin to think about the midterms. And I don't know if this is just me being an egghead, Stephanie. You know, we can talk about the traditional game of politics, we can talk about the traditional game of politics and kind of tell our traditional stories about who's up and who's down, who's ahead and who's behind. But, you know, I think Donald Trump and his folks are preparing themselves to cheat, that the traditional ways in which we think about politics must be understood. The calculus has to be run through the reality that these folk on the other side are not committed to the democratic process, in my view. So I think as we see this swell, as we might see the potential for a blue wave, it's happening against the context in which, how can I put this? Where the game, the rules of the game aren't the same, that these people aren't committed to the process as such. But maybe I'm wrong and I'm being an egg head.

Stephanie Ruhle (15:46)

You're always being an egg. I don't know if you're wrong, but I know you're always an egghead. Matthew, you are someone.

Matt Dowd (15:51)

Stephanie, can I say something?

Stephanie Ruhle (15:53)

Yes.

Matt Dowd (15:53)

I think the only part that he's wrong about when he said is they're preparing to cheat. They're already past preparation. I mean, what they did in, what they did in Texas was cheating. And what they want to do in Missouri or Ohio is cheating. So they're past the preparation stage.

Stephanie Ruhle (16:10)

Then why? Explain this to me, Tim. I Turn to you. Donald Trump has the lowest approval rating he's had since entering office. Right now, if Matthew and Eddie are right and they're not just preparing to cheat, cheating is on. Why on earth does this party continue to cling to Donald Trump and not look for the other name, the other person, the future of the party. Look at his numbers. Look at how the country's feeling about him.

Tim Miller (16:37)

Yeah, well, cheating is easier than separating from Donald Trump would be one part. And I think that obviously that what they're doing is gonna have a big impact in the House. That doesn't. You can't gerrymander the Senate. So kind of we'll see what the plans are for those guys and how they're gonna compete in the Senate. I think the answer for why Republicans are distancing themselves from Trump is right there on that. On that poll you just showed, 93% of Republicans still approve of him. And these senators, these House members, governors, they're responsive to their own base voters, first and foremost. And I think the thing that they're the most scared of is being thrown out by their own base voters. I think a lot of these guys live in fear of living the life that Jeff Lake or Liz Cheney or Adam Kinzinger have right now. They don't want to be thrust out from their tribe. They don't want to be, you know, if Joni aren't leaves now, she'll be able to get a fancy lobbying job because she's still in good standing in the Republican Party. If you distance for Trump and you lose anyway, you know, then you're really on the outs. And I think that all of these guys are afraid of that deeply. And I think that they judge that to be the bigger threat to them than Donald Trump's unpopularity. And I think that that will continue to be the case until that number of 93% of Republicans supporting Trump goes down.

Stephanie Ruhle (17:56)

I'm going to have to take a big deep breath on that one. You gentlemen aren't leaving just yet. When we come back, Donald Trump is re upping his unconstitutional call about how we hold elections in this country. The gentleman, we're just talking about it, what he wants to do and why. Voting rights groups are outraged, but why you need to be informed. Also ahead for us, it's going to be a big week on Capitol Hill for the Jeffrey Epstein scandal. We're going to preview what is coming up and why Republicans tokens are going to have a hard time running away this time. And we're going to have a sneak peek at the newest episode of the Best People podcast. Nicole's interview with the one and only Ken Burns later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Stay with us.

Tim Miller (18:39)

Mike and Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other. When Alyssa got a small water bottle.

Eddie Glaude (18:45)

Mike showed up with a 4 liter jug.

Tim Miller (18:47)

When Mike started gardening, Alyssa started beekeeping.

Eddie Glaude (18:51)

Oh come on. They called a truce for their holiday and used Expedia Trip Planner to collaborate on all the details of their trip. Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool. Whatever you were made to outdo your holidays. We were made to help organize the competition. Expedia Made to Travel did you know.

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Stephanie Ruhle (20:10)

Okay, Donald Trump is renewing his push to federalize elections across the country with two of his favorite grievances as his prime targets. In a Truth Social post, Trump pushed a national requirement of voter ID in all elections and a near total ban on mail in voting, arguing for paper ballots only. As democracy docket describes it, a presidential order to end mail in voting would be blatantly unconstitutional. The U.S. constitution gives the states the primary authority to regulate elections while empowering Congress to at any time by law make or alter such regulations. The framers never considered authorizing the president to oversee elections. Not only is it unconstitutional, but it is not in Trump and the Republicans best interest, which was evident in his 2024 election victory. Voter turnout by mail exceeded 30% in at least 14 states and the District of Columbia, according to the recent data available. Well, guess what? Donald Trump won half of those states, most of which have Republican Governors or secretaries of state overseeing the elections. We're back with Tim, Matt and Eddie. Eddie, you explain this. Does the president realize that part of his 2024 election victory was Trump voters using mail in ballots to vote for him?

Eddie Glaude (21:36)

You know, I suspect he probably knows that, but we always, we tend to think of him as, you know, people try to make him a rational actor in politics. But I think the man is still stuck in 2020. He's still stuck at the fact that he lost and how he lost in some ways. But, you know, even before we get to that, I mean, let's not run past the fact that he wants to do something that is blatantly unconstitutional. He can't do it. And the fact that we're even entertaining that this executive order has any kind of legs, any kind of weight, any kind of power makes no sense to me. And this goes back to something Tim said and Matt has suggested. Right. There's this combination of fear, cowardice and indifference. People are afraid for whatever reason they're afraid of, they're cowardly. And then people think he's not going to touch them. That will allow him, that will allow Trump to do this. I mean, it's unconstitutional stuff. He can't do it. So why are we even entertaining it?

Stephanie Ruhle (22:38)

Okay, we'll get to the unconstitutional part, but I just want to stick with the rational part, Tim. Trump's adopted home state is Florida, with one of the highest elderly populations in the country. And you know what's really helpful for senior citizens? The ability to vote by mail. So why would Trump push this so hard?

Tim Miller (22:58)

Yeah. Also military is another group where it's important to be able to vote by mail, for example, obviously. Look, I mean, again, I think that like Eddie, again, he's still wrapped around the axle around 2020 in his head. I think that is part of it. I think that another thing that I'm worried about. We were talking in the last segment about concerns about cheating in the midterms. I mean, obviously the gerrymandering thing is one part of cheating, but I was thinking more about sometimes you hear people are worried about them messing with the ballots or the machines or something more directly cheating with the vote count. And I'm not concerned about that as compared to a stop the steal redux where the cheat happens after the election. I think it's not really that far fetched because they've already done it. To imagine a situation where maybe Democrats win the House by a narrow margin and Mike Johnson and Donald Trump say that we're not gonna seat Democrats that won in states that were all male voting, California, Colorado, Washington, a lot of those are blue states, for example. And so this might be kind of a pretense to complain or cheat later. I think that is like as likely as them trying to actually change the rules this time because, you know, for now, we still have a republic with locally run elections. And Donald Trump's executive order isn't worth anything unless the local, you know, jurisdictions decide to cancel mail in balloting.

Stephanie Ruhle (24:25)

Okay, I want to just share, though, how Republicans were railed against voting rights bills during the Biden administration. Please watch this.

Tim Miller (24:34)

What this is really about is an effort for the federal government to take over the way we conduct elections in this country. It is a solution in search of a problem.

Stephanie Ruhle (24:46)

This is all about consolidating power, a national power grab to take away the voices from our local elections officials and our state elections officials.

Matt Dowd (24:57)

You think about the way that we've been doing elections in this country for over two centuries. The states have always been primary. They've been the principal entities when it comes to conducting elections across this country.

Tim Miller (25:10)

This would consolidate, federalize, nationalize elections in.

Matt Dowd (25:15)

This country and Washington, D.C. and that is not something, when the American people find out about it, that they're going to be for.

Eddie Glaude (25:22)

What they want is a federal takeover of the elections. I do not want a federal takeover of our election system.

Matt Dowd (25:27)

I oppose it.

Stephanie Ruhle (25:30)

Okay, Matthew. States rights and federalism. This wasn't part of Republicans of yesteryear. Kind of your vintage Republicans. These are modern day, currently elected our cabinet members in Marco Rubio's place. Republicans.

Matt Dowd (25:49)

I mean, that video, you have to actually look at the dates on that video when you, you think, oh, they're coming out against Donald Trump for everything he's about to do. But you realize they're, they're all four years old and they're coming out because Joe Biden, because they were mad about Joe Biden. This actually underlines something that Eddie just said, which is the incredible lack of courage of anyone or very, very few people in the Republican Party. Donald Trump proposes this uncon constitutional thing that he wants to do, taking over elections, which every one of these people has spoken out against. When Joe Biden, they supposedly, when Joe Biden, when they basically were trying to preserve voter rights and being able to vote in this election, they have said not a word. Not a word. None of those folks, the video that you showed who spoke out against Joe Biden have said a word against Donald Trump. And I, it's always reminds me of what Maya Angelou said, which is courage is the most important of all virtues because it allows you to practice every other virtue consistently. There is no courage, zero courage in the Republican Party today.

Stephanie Ruhle (26:58)

Eddie, do you think any of this is just a deflection because Donald Trump's actual policies right now are deeply unpopular?

Eddie Glaude (27:08)

You know, Steph, I think in part, yes, but I also think it's a part of a broader agenda I can't think of. I can't help but can't help but connect this to what's going on in Texas, to what they're trying to do in Missouri and Indiana, to the Supreme Court taking up redistricting, trying to gut the Voting Rights act of Section 2. Louisiana, agreeing with the Trump administration that Section 2 of the Voting Rights act is unconstitutional. I think they're trying to impact and affect the voting population of the country, and that disproportionately impacts black and brown voters. Right. And so for me, I think it's in part, you know, for Trump, in his kind of own selfish interest, to try to divert attention. But there are other folks who have a broader agenda than what Trump is up to. And for me, any assault on voting, however we describe whatever they're doing now. Right. Represents a clear and present danger to the republic. And so and for me, it's deeply rooted in the racist history of the country. So, yes, it's a distraction, but it's also a deep and insidious project at work right in front of us.

Stephanie Ruhle (28:29)

So we have to stay informed and engaged. Matt? Eddie, I'm not letting you leave just yet. Tim, thank you for joining us this afternoon. When we come back, Congress returns, returns tomorrow. And so does the firestorm over the Jeffrey Epstein scandal. What to expect when Democrats and Republicans demand answers in the saga that has engulfed the Trump White House this summer. That's coming up next.

Eddie Glaude (28:57)

What will be explosive is the September 3rd press conference that both of us are having with 10 Epstein victims, many who have never spoken out before. They're going to be on the steps of the Capitol. They will be telling their story and they will be saying clearly to the American public that they want the release of the Epstein files for full closure on this matter.

Stephanie Ruhle (29:20)

Ro Khanna working overtime. Congress is set to return this week with a flurry of action on the Epstein files. With that press conference, Congressman Ro Khanna right there, tease there is set for Wednesday. Khanna is set to hold a press conference with his Republican colleague, Congressman Thomas Massie. Those two congressmen are also pushing ahead with their bill that would force the Justice Department to release all of the Epstein files. I'm not talking about the grand jury testimony. I'm talking about all of the Epstein files. With a vote to advance, it is set for tomorrow. The pair say they have the votes required for the bill to move forward with all 212 Democrats, no surprise, and at least six Republicans supporting it. Joining us now, former criminal division deputy chief at SDNY, MSNBC legal analyst and host of the YouTube show Courtside, Christopher Greenberg. Matt and Eddie also still with us. Christy, what are you anticipating from Wednesday's press conference?

Christy (30:17)

Well, one thing I'm anticipating is them to be very clear about the fact that there is no reason why the files can't be released. A judge in the Southern District of New York who is presiding over the Epstein case made that clear. He said, why are you coming to me about grand jury transcripts which take up basically very little, 70 pages, when you've got hundreds of thousands of pages that you could release tomorrow if you wanted? There is nothing stopping the government from doing this. And so they should do it. And I think they, these victims, I mean, there is strength in numbers. If they're going to have 10 victims at this press conference to say this is what they want, I think that is really drawing a stark contrast to the kid gloves that they treated Ghislaine Maxwell with. She got interviewed and then she got a country club prison reward afterwards. And so I think these victims are really putting a very fine point on the fact that that was unfair. There's no reason not to release the truth. You, you released her side of the story. We've got that transcript. Now it's time for you to hear from us.

Stephanie Ruhle (31:23)

It is safe to say, Matthew, that Republican Congressman James Comer is a Donald Trump super fan, super loyalist. But I want to share what he had to say this weekend.

Tim Miller (31:37)

We're bringing in the families and the attorneys of the victims Tuesday afternoon to talk to the House Oversight Committee. This will be Republicans and Democrats because we're going to make this information public. That's what the American people want. When we travel around all of our districts, that's one of the things that people ask, when, when are we going to see the Epstein files?

Stephanie Ruhle (31:59)

Okay. This seems to really be the first order of business for Congress. What do you think?

Matt Dowd (32:06)

Well, you know, it tells you that they respond to the previous segment is Republicans respond when their own primary voters start to raise a question about an issue. And it's, as I've said before, that they're the ones, the Republicans were the ones that sort of stirred up this whole Epstein. But the problem was they've caught the wrong fly in the web and the fly they wanted wasn't caught, but the fly that's in the White House was caught in this web. And that's why there's been so much reticence to do this. But I, I'm going to follow what something up with Christie said having. I, I think the more we can keep the victims front and center of this as opposed to like what, you know, what Donald Trump says or does or what Pam Bondi says or does is the better because these are all victims of awful, horrid situation that Giselle Maxwell and, and Jeffrey Epstein were in the midst of and other sort of high ranking people around the world, world, including in the United States. And so bravo to Ro Khanna and bravo to Thomas Massie, who I normally don't agree with very much for bringing the victim. And bravo to James Comer because he's going to have him testify, he's going to have him at a hearing at the house to sort of make the victims the front and center and make transparency so people can see how awful the situation was and who it touched.

Stephanie Ruhle (33:28)

Bringing those victims front and center will be a much needed reminder for the country that Ghislaine Maxwell was at the center of this and she is now in a country club prison and a criminal. Eddie, what is your reaction to the bipartisan push for accountability? Do you think we're actually going to see some action here?

Eddie Glaude (33:48)

Well, I hope so. And I hope so for the very reason that Matt just laid out, Christie just laid out. I hope so. But let's, let's be clear. Don't be surprised if we don't see National Guard in Chicago, in Baltimore. He's going to try to distract us. So let's not get distracted.

Stephanie Ruhle (34:05)

That's entirely fair. Christy, the House Oversight Committee also requested suspicious activity reports from the Treasury Department today. What could those reports tell us?

Christy (34:16)

So there could be a treasure trove of information there. I mean, you're going to be able to potentially see if there's anything, as the report says, suspicious, Right? Anything that could indicate that there was evidence of a crime. If you are investigating a sex trafficking ring, you're going to be looking for, you know, what are, what are the accounts that are sharing information. In particular, I think you're looking at Epstein's money trail. Right? Follow the money is the main thing that any investigator does in a case. There are a lot of questions about what, how Epstein made all his money, what he was using money for why people were paying him the large amounts of money that they were in. Reading the interview transcript about the money that was given to Maxwell from Epstein, I mean, she received, I think it was about anywhere between 20 to 30 million from him over the years. She had no really good explanations for why she was getting that money. So those suspicious activity reports are going to really highlight some of those transactions. Big numbers, patterns of activity that the investigators should be looking at. And I think that's really where, you know, you could, you could make, you know, a new case. I think there are members of Congress who are looking at the money trail now, and that, I don't know that that was ever really explored by the investigators or the prosecutors. And that could really open up new avenues for investigations.

Stephanie Ruhle (35:45)

What was he getting paid for? Let's make it clear to facilitate and cover up. Naughty, naughty sexcapades for really rich dudes. Period. End of sentence. Just quickly, though, Congress is going to get their hands on this birthday book. Do you think anything big is going to come of it or it's just going to be embarrassing?

Christy (36:05)

Christy, that to me, yeah, I mean, if it's what was described in the Wall Street Journal article, it sounds more embarrassing than anything else. But it also sounds like it kind of shows that, you know, everybody kind of knew who he was. It wasn't some big secret. Like Maxwell said in her interview that she had no idea being around Jeffrey Epstein, that he was creepy, that there was anything wrong that was going on. She denied everything. Well, when every single letter in the birthday book is, yeah, this guy's a creep and he liked young girls, yeah, that becomes a really difficult pill to swallow.

Stephanie Ruhle (36:42)

Pretty much. Christy, thank you so much. Matthew, Eddie, thank you as well. We still have more to cover. When we return, we're going to share some of Nicole's new interview with historian Ken Burns for the Best People podcast. We're going to have that after a very short break. You don't want to miss this.

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Stephanie Ruhle (38:28)

Despite everything that is happening in the world right now, you gotta believe in this American experiment of ours. Just ask legendary filmmaker Ken Burns. This fall, Burns is tackling the American Revolution in a new documentary series for pbs, a deep dive into the origins of our democracy that proves, yes, democracy is complicated, but you gotta have faith. Ken Burns is Nicole's guest on this week's episode of the Best People Watch this.

Christy (38:55)

You sound more optimistic to me right.

Stephanie Ruhle (38:57)

Now and more sort of rooted in faith about the ideas behind our country.

Matt Dowd (39:02)

And the people than you did when we last talked.

Stephanie Ruhle (39:05)

I think we last talked on television.

Matt Dowd (39:09)

After a speech you gave with a warning for the country about the two paths.

Eddie Glaude (39:14)

And Trump has done more than what.

Matt Dowd (39:16)

You and a lot of other people warned about. Much, much more and much, much more quickly.

Christy (39:20)

From where do you gather your faith?

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I think I don't have the luxury of not having it. I have to believe in this experiment. People like to say that history repeats itself. It never has. And Ecclesiastes says, we've talked about this. There's nothing new under the sun. But I think the most important event since the birth of Christ was the American Revolution. And I'll defend that. I mean, I'm happy to have a conversation, explain, explain. I just think something new under the sun happened. Everybody was a subject. Jefferson says in the Declaration, a few lines after Pursuit of Happiness, he says, all experiences. Experience has shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable. Meaning we just kind of put up with this, you know what? And we're Creating this new thing, a citizen. And that's going to require extraordinary responsibilities. And to me, my interpretation of that is to begin to have a little faith, faith in the process of these ideas. So I think you can go sort of situation by situation and just say, all right, I have to breathe. I have to do what I know how to do, which is to try to tell complicated stories about us. Not just the us, but us. And then hope that that story is able to be. I told Maureen Dowd this a kind of benevolent Trojan horse, right? It's not this gift you take in and then it gets out at night and kills you and burns down the city. No, you go, oh, yeah. That's who we are, that we're complicated. I've got a neon sign in my editing room in cursive, and it says, it's complicated because you always want to just go for the simple story, the one that's working. And we sort of define heroism as perfection. And of course, it's not that Heroin is an internal negotiation, sometimes a war between your strengths and your weaknesses. And that's why we study heroism, not for perfection, which we're constantly disappointed if you live in a binary world, but because Achilles has his heel and his hubris to go along with his great strength. So what are you going to do? Just show when Babe Ruth hits the home run? Or do you show when he strikes out? Or do you show when the shortstop is up? Or do you show when somebody hits into a game ending double play and we don't win that game? You have to be able to say, I'm big enough. In order to be the best team, you have to be incredibly self critical. If you're the biggest, most important country, exceptional country on earth, you've got to be harder on yourself. You think Tom Brady went, oh, I just won a Super Bowl, I don't have to do anything. It's cruise control from now on. You're deeply mistaken. This is a constant readjustment and self evaluation, which is what we need to do as citizens on our own interpersonal level, in our relationship with friends, and most important, in relationship to the people that disagree with us. And then as a country, I came across a quote in my own film that I hadn't thought about in, in 30 years, the civil War series. And Lincoln said, as a nation, we began by declaring that all men are created equal. We now practically read it, all men are created except Negroes. Soon it will read, all men are created equal except Negroes and foreigners and Catholics. When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure and without the base alloy of hypocrisy. This is Lincoln in the late 50s. And I mean, and he's using Russia as an example. And you kind of go, okay, folks, where do you want to go? The choice is super simple. I think the whole American question is where do you want to live in Bedford Falls or Pottersville? You know, in Frank Capra's wonderful movie with Jimmy Stewart, It's a Wonderful Life, he has a chance to see what the world would be without him. And it's presented with the fact that the greedy, moneyed banker in town turns the town into Pottersville, this loose, amoral thing, and that what he has been participating in, Bedford Falls is a community in which we are all bound to one another, immigrants as well as long arrivals in which there's a kind of sense of, of common purpose. And for me, the choice has been simple my entire life since I saw that film. I want to live in Bedford Falls. I don't want to live in Pottersville.

Stephanie Ruhle (44:08)

Do you want to live in Pottersville or Bedford Falls? You can download Nicole's conversation with Ken Burns right now. Just scan the QR code on the bottom of your screen or download this week's episode of the Best People wherever you get your podcast. A quick break for us. We'll be right back with more. A dramatic scene in Texas this weekend. After the US Government loaded children onto planes overnight Saturday to be sent back to their native Guatemala, a federal judge temporarily blocked those flights with the kids still sitting on the planes. The judge who said she was awoken at 2:30 in the morning to address the emergency filing from the children's lawyers, said this, quote, I have the government attempting to remove minor children from the country in the wee hours of the morning on a holiday weekend, end quote. After the 4am ruling stopping the flights in their tracks in Texas, the Trump administration now says all but four of the Guatemalan children have been returned to HHS custody. MSNBC's Jacob Sobroff has been reporting for us about one Guatemalan teenager whose life has already been upended by the Trump administration. 18 year old Nori Ramos, an honor roll student from Los Angeles, deported alongside her mother at a routine immigration check, Jacob traveled to Guatemala. He spoke with Nori and the civics teacher fighting to bring her back. We'll have that story tomorrow first right here on Deadline, so be sure to tune in for that. We have another quick break and we'll be right back. Thank you for letting us onto your homes on this holiday Monday. We are grateful. Nicole will be back here in this seat tomorrow and you can watch me tomorrow night at 11pm Eastern on the 11th hour.

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