← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
“A crisis of Trump’s own making”
00:42:26
Nicolle Wallace on how Trump has failed to meet his campaign promises for the economy – and created a new disaster for American pocketbooks with his extreme tariffs.
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- [00:00]
Nicole Wallace
Pandora makes it easy for you to find your favorite music. Discover new artists and genres by selecting any song or album and we'll make you a personalized station for free download on the Apple App Store or Google Play and enjoy the soundtrack to your life. Deadline White House is brought to you by Progressive, where drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on average. Plus auto customers qualify for an average of 7 discounts. Quote now@progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who save with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. A vote for Trump means your groceries will be cheaper. I will fix it. It'll be fixed very fast and America will be bigger, better, bolder, richer, saf longer than ever before. And we will make America very importantly affordable again because people cannot afford the prices and prices are too high. My plan will rapidly defeat inflation, quickly bring down prices and reignite explosive economic growth. We're going to bring prices way down and we're going to get it done fast. Oops.
- [01:25]
Joy Reid
Never mind. Hi again, Everybody. It's now five o'clock in New York. Donald Trump made a litany of promises like those to the American people, to his own supporters, to swing voters, frankly to all of us, that he would be the one who would make things cheaper and make all of our lives easier. He would lower prices. He would drive down inflation, he would drive down the national debt, he would make things more affordable. But the reality is that prices are high and people are struggling more than ever to get by. A lot of that having to do with the crisis he created. Tariffs. They're creating major chaos and confusion and adding to higher costs and economic anxiety. Those costs are now expected to go even higher. Take the latest inflation report and analysis from financial experts that came out yesterday. The consumer price index rose 2.7% on an annual basis in July, which was actually unchanged from the month before and less than expected. That's the good news. But about the report, CNBC finds this quote, there were worrying signs under the surface, including evidence that Trump administration policies are stoking inflation for certain goods and services. Economists said those effects will likely become more pronounced later this year, they said. Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody's, says this quote, the tariff and immigration effects aren't screaming at us, but they're certainly speaking very loudly. And over the next couple months, they'll start Yelling not a good sign for the already more than 80% of Americans who are stressed about the price of groceries right now in either a major or minor way. A brand new poll by the Democratic group emily's List goes deeper into those economic anxieties and finds this quote, it paints a bleak picture of where Americans are right now. That's according to the group's president, Jessica Mackler. The survey finds this quote, more than 3/5 of voters believe the economy is not doing well, according to the survey, compared to just 37% who think it is doing well. Voters blame Republicans for the economy, with 70% saying the GOP is more responsible for the economy than Democrats. The Emily's List poll finds that women, many of whom make a lot of the economic decisions in their households, are feeling the brunt of this economic hardship. Quote, 45% of women said they are falling behind or only making enough money to cover day to day expenses, while just 34% of men say the same thing. Only 24% of women say they are optimistic that their financial situation will improve over the next year, while 34% of men say the same thing. And this is what those concerns look and sound like.
- [04:11]
Jessica Mackler
I refuse to pay $19 for a.
- [04:15]
Joy Reid
Pack of 96 sharpened pencils. I was totally shocked by that sticker price. I've had to take on a second job just because everything has gotten so expensive. I always grew up thinking the stereotypical American dream where you own a house and you have a yard to play in. And I think that dream is dying. That's where we start the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. Jessica Mackler is here, the president of emily's List. Also joining us, former senior advisor to President Biden and Vice President Harris, the former mayor of New Orleans, Mitch Landrieu is here. Let me read a little bit more from this fantastic poll from Emily's List. You add this Understanding women's circumstances and priorities is essential for Democratic campaigns to succeed in 2026 and beyond. And their votes should not be taken for granted, especially as issues that matter to women from the economy and cost to health and reproductive care are central to both family well being and who women vote for. Jessica, take me through the findings.
- [05:26]
Mitch Landrieu
Absolutely.
- [05:26]
Jessica Mackler
Thanks Nicole, for having me on. As you said, this poll paints a really stark and bleak picture of where Americans are right now. They are suffering under the fallout of this Republican agenda, the chaos, the recklessness. As we talk about tariffs, we talk about the cost of goods going up. But this book gives us a really much deeper Understanding not just that people are worried about the economy, we've known that for a while, but how their view of their own financial stress interacts with how they view the political landscape and what they're looking for. Almost half of women are saying that they're struggling financially and that's having a huge impact. They are feeling this much more acutely. And as we know, women reliably make up the majority of the electorate in midterm election. So responding to their struggles is going to be really critical to Democrats success in 2026. And we also see in this research that we really have an assignment that has been put upon us by voters to make sure that we're meeting them where they are in their frustrations and their struggles and that we're offering them bold leadership in response.
- [06:22]
Joy Reid
Jessica it feels like if you're the person in your household who does most of the Amazon shopping, who does most of the groc grocery shopping, who makes the run to Walmart, you are already seeing tariffs. If you have girl sons or daughters who play sports or dance or do anything extracurricular, things are already more expensive. Do you see a lag in the polls or is that what's starting to show up? Despite the fact that a lot of the analysis from Wall street is that the pain is still to come, people.
- [06:55]
Jessica Mackler
Are very clearly and this is reflected in this data. It's also reflected in what we're hearing from people across the country, town halls, at community meetings, on social media. People are very clearly already feeling the pain. But the fact is it's not a matter of will it get worse, it's when and how. You know, as we're doing back to school shopping and I count myself among those moms who are figuring out how much those pencils are going to cost, we are really feeling this right here and now, but we know that it is only going to get worse. One of the other pieces of this poll that I found really interesting and is important is just how much, how overwhelmingly voters already blame Republicans for this economy. Nearly 70% of voters say that Republicans are more to blame for this economy than Democrats are. And so we know that voters are already experiencing the pain. We know that they hold Republicans accountable and responsible for that pain. But again, we need to meet them in that and offer them a path forward and really show them that we understand what they're going through.
- [07:54]
Joy Reid
Laura Jessica, if I have this wrong, what I heard from one of the women there is they want to with the opportunity maybe, or the challenge for Democrats is some of those Women want to see Democrats fight harder for their economic standing. Is that another thing to draw from this poll?
- [08:14]
Jessica Mackler
I think when we're in a position that we're in right now where this just vast majority of Americans are feeling this amount of pain that they are looking for, that bold leadership that is absolutely true, to be successful in 2026, we need to provide that to them. And that really gets at the heart of the work that we do at Emily's List. You know, and I look across the country, we have some great models for what this looks like right now. In 2025, we are going to have two gubernatorial elections in New Jersey and Virginia. And in candidates there, Mikey Sherrill and Abigail Spamberger, respectively, we have some great examples of how you do this, how you really meet voters in their pain and their frustration and offer them agendas that speak to that. That, I think is what we need more of going forward. And what we see is that women, candid, uniquely positioned to do this because their lived experiences, their professional experiences are such that voters see that they really understand what their communities are experiencing, what their families are experiencing. That's true of those gubernatorial candidates. It's true of House candidates across the country that we have running to flip that majority in 2026. They really understand what voters are going through, and that's going to be really critically important to being successful in 2026 and beyond.
- [09:24]
Joy Reid
Mitch, if you look at this poll, I feel like some of the arguments you made on my air ahead of the November election were warning about just this. And I understand there' swe have to be amnesiac. We meet voters where they are. We don't wish for anything bad to happen to anybody. I don't wish anybody economic insecurity ever. I don't wish anybody, regardless of who they voted for, any stress at the grocery store or anywhere else. However, the Trump betrayal on the economy is actually more severe and more rapid than even what folks were warning about. What is your sense of both the political fallout for all Republicans, not just Trump, and the opportunity to fight for men and women and families and everyone feeling this economic stress?
- [10:17]
Nicole Wallace
Well, a couple things. First of all, the poll that Emily's List on tracks exactly the work that I did with the working class project. We're still in the midst of it. We're traveling to 21 states. We're doing focus groups and polling, and we're hearing this time and time again, especially from working class women who are as stressed out as they have ever been. Today in New Orleans is the first day back to school, so you could see all the moms and the dads trying to get their kids to school. And I can promise you there were some pain points at the store this weekend when people were getting their back to school supplies and they were shocked by the price. That's when you really start to feel the grocery prices have gone up. The betrayal part of this, and it is true, the election was about who they thought was going to handle the economy. Trump said, I alone can do it. I'm going to get it done. The first day I get in office, everything's going to be beautiful and we're going to have the big beautiful bill. But essentially what's happened is he's betrayed them. Inflation has gone up, costs have gone up, GDP has gone down, the debt has gone up. All of the macro indicators that make people's lives harder have gotten worse for the American public. And the people, especially working class folks and people that are living on the main street really, really feel. And so I just think it's incumbent upon Democrats to stay focused on that issue. Donald Trump right now is trying to do everything he can in the world to distract you from the fact that the big, beautiful bill takes critical health care dollars away from women and children for food, for healthcare, and gives it to a bunch of rich folks. He doesn't want you to concentrate on that. He doesn't want you to concentrate on Epstein. He doesn't want you to concentrate on the fact that, that he said he was going to solve the war in Ukraine and he was going to solve the war in Gaza, and none of that has happened. Instead, he's showing up at the Kennedy Senate saying, would you please give me in a war? So I think people rightly feel betrayed, because here's the thing. Facts and reality are very, very, very stubborn things. And the people that we are supposed to represent on the ground every day feel like a covenant has been broken with them. She said it just a minute ago. The covenant was that if you work hard, you're going to make enough money to make sure that your kids lives get better than you. And people feel like that is out. And from my perspective, that's unacceptable. And so elected officials, Democrats, got to focus on that particular issue day after day after day. And if people know that you care about them and you put forth proposals that are going to impact their lives, reduce their housing costs, reduce their grocery bills, and they think that you're fighting for them, they're going to come back. Because Trump definitely betrayed him. There's no question about that. They know it, they feel it, and they're not happy about it at all.
- [12:43]
Joy Reid
Yeah, I remember. You know, this is stupid. Only a political reporter would say this. I remember where I was when he did his Bedminster press conference, standing in front of melting food and made his. I mean, he was constantly trying to distract from his criminal trials by making false promises about the economy. And now that he's tanked the economy, he's trying to distract from the economy by doing all the other ludicrous things that you mentioned. Mitch, I want to read you one more piece from the poll about Medicaid cuts. This is, this is, this is also in the memo. Elected officials who voted to cut Medicaid are facing a significant deal breaker for voters. This is one of the most significant deal breakers for voters across the board. 47% say that vote is a major deal breaker. But it's particularly salient among the voters struggling the most. 59% of independents, 51% of women. And just a real understanding of what that bill does. I mean, you see it anecdotally in town halls, you see it here empirically in the data and you can feel it in Republicans asinine interviews. I think it's one of thei think it's Josh Hawley who voted for the bill and then introduced legislation to undo the bill. I mean, they know how bad this is. And I wonder how you lay that over the economic anxiety.
- [14:12]
Nicole Wallace
Well, it's critically in the focus groups that we did, white working class men that voted for Donald Trump twice could not believe that the people they voted for were going to cut their health care. Many of them have special needs kids that was going to cut their health care in exchange for giving wealthy people who don't need a tax break a tax break. So in other words, you gave a billion dollars away to the richest top 1 or 2% and you took away life saving health care. And people that we talked to were like, I cannot believe, will never vote for these people again. It was a bad idea. That's a bad bill. The American public unfortunately is going to suffer from them. The Republicans are going to run away from it. They're going to lie about what they did. But I don't think that you can hide the fact because when a parent takes a kid to the doctor and they need that coverage and they don't have it, it's unfortunately too late and the pain is going to be too deep. And it's very unfortunate. We have to fight to make sure that parents have the kind of health care they need for the kids and for themselves.
- [15:10]
Joy Reid
Jessica, let me put up the poll about groceries one more time, because this is about economic insecurity, but it's also about a lack of trustworthiness and a lack of truthfulness. This is the people for whom the cost of groceries is a major source of stress or a minor source of stress. That's almost 90% of all Americans who are stressed out when they're grocery shopping. That is something many people, mostly women, do most days of the week. Certainly feeding their family, whether they're cooking or making packing lunches or whatever it is, is something people are doing every single day. I wonder what you make of the salience of not just the economic anxiety, but the lies around what Trump said he was going to do when it came to specifically, quote, the cost of the grocery, end quote.
- [16:04]
Jessica Mackler
Well, we've used the word betrayal a lot today, and I think that's the right word. People feel betrayed. And, you know, in some ways they don't even necessarily need to be reminded of the lie because again, this was what he hinged his entire campaign around. And people went into this year already struggling immensely. They are struggling even more today. And if every time you go to the grocery store, you are feeling that kind of stress that is around everything that you do, every decision you make, every action you take, and that is the environment under which we are entering these midterm elections or even elections that were happening before that in 2025. And so people feel that betrayal deeply. And it is going to motivate voters in an incredible way again, if we can meet them in that pain and really offer them a path forward and talk about how we're going to make their lives better. That is enormous opportunity for us in this election cycle. And it's going to be critically important just because in this election cycle is when we have the opportunity to take back power and actually do something about this. And we need to give voters that opportunity.
- [17:03]
Joy Reid
Mitch at the top of the last hour, I had Congressman Robert Garcia on from California and we had this conversation about how gerrymandering and the fight in Texas. And Governor Gavin Newsom entering into this conversation with Governor Pritzker has energized Democrats. They see someone fighting for them. It was his view that you have to fight on all these fronts. They have to that Democratic voters and an entire pro democracy coalition has to see the leader of the Democratic Party fighting for maps that are fair, fighting for an economy that is, at a minimum, what you said you were going to do, fighting against potentially deadly cuts to Medicaid while giving tax cuts to the most wealthy people in this country. What is your view on fighting on those multiple fronts?
- [17:56]
Nicole Wallace
My view is really clear. You cannot bring a knife to a gunfight. These guys are brutal. They don't follow the rules, they lie, they cheat and they steal. And so my view is, and my recommendation to every Democratic, you know, elected official out there, fight everywhere, every time, all the time, with whatever you have. Don't give them an inch. These guys will not stop. These. Donald Trump's entire mission in life is to accumulate power and to use that power to help himself and his friends get rich and to hurt his enemies. That's the only reason why he does stuff. It's the reason why he declares emergencies. It's the reason why, because it gives him the imprimatur of being able to accumulate more power. And then the problem is he's got such bad judgment and he's got such a dark heart that he always uses that power to hurt people. So I don't think that we're playing on a fair field right now. And I would just tell, I think Gavin Newsom is right about this. You got to bring the heat and you bring it all the time, everywhere, and we'll settle up later. But I don't think, you know, being nice about this and trying to appease people is going to work. You're never going to appease Donald Trump. He's going to take everything you let him take, and the only way you're going to stop him is to stop him. And so, you know what I mean, let's get it on. I mean, we're going to have a fight. It's not going to end nice. It's going to be really ugly. But at the end of the day, winning is everything. Because if you can't win, you can't.
- [19:10]
Joy Reid
Govern and you can't help people. And I think that also shows up in the poll. Voters want to see people fighting for them. Jessica Mackler, Mitch Landrieu, thank you both very much for this conversation. I'm grateful to you both. When we come back, it is surreal to watch this. Federal troops are on the ground in what many still consider, I guess, to be the capital of the free world. Why Donald Trump's misguided view of American democracy, Military power and law enforcement are on a collision course right now. Right now, as we speak on the streets of Washington, D.C. also ahead for us, the White House is already lowering expectations for Friday's big summit between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. Experts who have watched watched the Trump Putin relationship over the years do not have high hopes and instead are sounding the alarm that Putin might be laying a trap for Trump. Jadlin Whitehouse continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [20:12]
Jessica Mackler
Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa, and if you've been listening to my podcast, we are knee deep in season three, and if you haven't heard it, it's time to get on board. After years of interviewing celebs on camera, I finally get to bring you the real conversations that take place when the cameras aren't rolling. Where else are you going to hear Michelle Obama talk about keeping her girls out of Page Six? Hilaria Baldwin's hilarious reaction to Alec running for office, or Jeremy Renner's lucid hallucinations about Jamie Foxx? Nowhere else. It's raw, it's honest, and best of all, it's off camera. And believe me, that's where you get the good stuff. So download. Let's talk off camera with Kelly Ripa now, wherever you get your podcast.
- [20:55]
Nicole Wallace
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- [21:52]
Jessica Mackler
How concerned are you that Trump is trying to normalize the presence of the military on American streets, make it seem like a normal thing to people living in our cities.
- [22:03]
Mitch Landrieu
It's deeply disturbing. It is deeply offensive for so many of us who have worn the uniform, to see someone who has never had, who has never chosen to wear the uniform, in fact, when he had the opportunity, talked about bone spurs to then give lust the orders as to how we can be utilized when it's just simply being used as an expensive deployment.
- [22:22]
Nicole Wallace
Of personal political ego.
- [22:25]
Joy Reid
That was Maryland governor, retired Army Captain Wes Moore. He's reacting to Donald Trump's deployment of National Guard troops on the streets of the nation's capital. Members of the National Guard began to deploy late yesterday with totals expected to reach 800 National Guard members and approximately 500 members of federal law enforcement. Is part of Donald Trump's takeover of D.C. policing? The law that Donald Trump evoked allows him to take control of the city's police for 30 days. Donald Trump today said he will ask Congress for an extension. Protesters took to the streets, sharing Governor West Moore's articulation and frustration that Donald Trump, who has never served in the military, who allowed a violent mob to swarm the United States Capitol, is now claiming to care about law and order and crime in a city where crime has actually reached a 30 year low. TRUMP today was asked about the criticism of this takeover.
- [23:27]
Nicole Wallace
Already they're saying he's a dictator. The place is going to hell and we've got to stop it. So instead of saying he's a dictator, they should say we're going to join him and make Washington secular safe.
- [23:42]
Joy Reid
Instead of saying he's a dictator. For all the times we've heard a president say that. Joining our coverage, former adjunct general for the Illinois National Guard, retired Major General William Enyart is here. He's also a former Illinois Democratic congressman and served on the House Armed Services Committee. Also joining us is retired army four star general, MSNBC military analyst, General Barry McCaffrey. General McCaffrey, I'll start with you because I feel like we've been through a lot of crises. You were on the air, I don't know if you remember this with me, when Donald Trump was tweeting about Little Rocket man and there were real anxieties about a war with North Korea. We've been on the air together through the strikes in Iran, through many national security crises, but this one feels really different. This feels like something that men who are loath to speak out tried to warn us about. Men like John Kelly and Mark Milley and Mark Esper and even Jim Mattis. Tell me where your thoughts are today.
- [24:48]
Mitch Landrieu
Well, one thing that has to be put on the table, Nicole, though, is.
- [24:50]
Nicole Wallace
Thank God for the National Guard.
- [24:52]
Mitch Landrieu
There's 430,000 of them. We see them across the country in natural disasters. They deliver the mail. They fought with us in high intensity combat in Iraq and Afghanistan and every one of the nation's wars. So they're a vitally important force. And under Title 32, working for a governor or in the case of the D.C. guard, working for the president, they are allowed the Posse Comitatus act doesn't apply to them.
- [25:21]
Nicole Wallace
They are allowed to make arrests and.
- [25:22]
Mitch Landrieu
Conduct operations among American citizens.
- [25:27]
Nicole Wallace
So there's that.
- [25:27]
Mitch Landrieu
Now the second thing is, what's the problem on crime in D.C. and can the National Guard help? They're suboptimal, of course they'll help the D.C. police. D.C. police, 3,100 people. They're 800 under strength. They lack prosecutors, they lack jurists, they lack money to deal with the homeless.
- [25:48]
Nicole Wallace
And in none of those cases can.
- [25:50]
Mitch Landrieu
A military police National Guard sergeant be much of a help. So I think mostly it's a political stunt. But there is a crime parliament in D.C. and I think in many cases you're going to find that the citizens support this move.
- [26:08]
Joy Reid
Jerval Enyar what is the danger of putting the men and women of the military on the streets of American cities?
- [26:16]
Nicole Wallace
Well, first of all, I'd like to thank General McCaffrey for that great shout out to the National Guard. He's absolutely correct and everything that he stated. And during my five year tenure as the commander of the Illinois National Guard, we had troops in combat 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and did it for 20 years. So they get the job done. But here's the situation. The National Guard is a part time military force. It is not a part time law enforcement force. And by the way, when you call.
- [26:50]
Mitch Landrieu
Them to active duty, they're very expensive.
- [26:52]
Nicole Wallace
It costs a lot of money to bring these guys on board and put them in the streets. And there was a quote just today from the National Guard bureau that quoted in one of your other rival networks that they don't have a plan. They don't know where they're going to put these people and don't know what they're going to do with these people. There should have been a plan. The administration should have given warning.
- [27:14]
Mitch Landrieu
They knew they were that Trump knew.
- [27:16]
Nicole Wallace
He was going to do this, should have given warning and should have had an idea what to do with these folks. They are not policemen. What they can provide, they can provide logistics, they can provide medical support, they can provide transportation. But they cannot go out there and in good conscience arrest or detain people because they're simply not trained to do is a waste of a, of a highly trained, very skilled force that should be defending our nation in wartime and in matters of national emergency. This is not a national emergency. It is not a disaster.
- [27:57]
Joy Reid
Yeah, I mean, General McCaffrey, I take your points about crime. It's also a very powerful political cudgel that Donald Trump has wielded expertly. But there are cities with far higher rates of crime. There are cities in blue states. And there were a lot of concerns voiced by men like John Kelly and Mark Esper and others that Stephen Miller and Donald Trump have been conspiring to deploy the military to the streets of America's cities for years now. Do you have any concerns about that?
- [28:31]
Mitch Landrieu
Look, there's a huge concern. Most Americans are unaware that under an act by Congress there are some hundred and twenty five powers that a president can unilaterally declare he's only got 30 days in theory, but Congress could only override it with a veto proof majority. 32 of these emergency powers are still in effect and they've been there since 9 11. So the president has considerable unilateral ability to employ military force, to suspend transportation, to change the rules of the game on international trade granted by Congress. And if you don't trust the president, if you think he's an authoritarian moving toward near dictatorship, powers ruling by decree.
- [29:25]
Nicole Wallace
Then we got a problem.
- [29:26]
Mitch Landrieu
And we do have a problem.
- [29:29]
Joy Reid
I'm gonna ask both of you to stick around through a very short break. We'll all be right back. On the other side.
- [29:37]
Nicole Wallace
This is Comedy Bang Bang the Podcast.
- [29:39]
Jessica Mackler
The promo and in 30 seconds I'm.
- [29:42]
Joy Reid
Gonna tell you why you should check out the show.
- [29:45]
Nicole Wallace
I, the host, Scott Aukerman have a light hearted conversation with famous celebrities like like Jon Hamm, Allison Williams, Phoebe Bridgers, Jason Alexander, Natasha Lyonne, Bob Odenkirk, just to name a few. Things go a little off the rails when different eccentric characters and oddballs drop.
- [30:01]
Joy Reid
By to be interviewed as well.
- [30:02]
Nicole Wallace
Each week is a blend of conversations and character work from your favorite comedians as well as some new hilarious voices. Comedy Bang Bang the Podcast Listen every Monday wherever you get your podcasts need.
- [30:16]
Jessica Mackler
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- [30:46]
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- [31:12]
Joy Reid
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- [31:15]
Jessica Mackler
Now.
- [31:19]
Nicole Wallace
The idea that Trump is using.
- [31:20]
Jessica Mackler
This assault as an issue to now.
- [31:24]
Nicole Wallace
Take over D.C. i feel like, is really scary. The press conference was really scary.
- [31:28]
Jessica Mackler
You know, he's taking federal control of.
- [31:30]
Nicole Wallace
The police, and that's just not okay.
- [31:31]
Jessica Mackler
I feel like these are the sorts of things that you start to see.
- [31:33]
Joy Reid
In dictatorships and in really, you know.
- [31:36]
Jessica Mackler
In regimes that want to consolidate power.
- [31:37]
Nicole Wallace
I think that's why I showed up. I was really scared. I think this is, is really, really scary.
- [31:44]
Joy Reid
We're back with General Enyard and General McCaffrey. General Enyart. We had a conversation yesterday with Secretary Kendall and other folks who were worried about the trajectory that don't see this as a one off, that see this as part of a longer mission that, as I referenced earlier, has been something that Stephen Miller and Donald Trump have aspired to do for nine years and we're to going blocked from doing by the kinds of men who were around him. In a first term, how do you see the deployment of the National Guard and the militarization of the nation's capital in the sweep of an interest in having people shoot protesters, which is something that was well reported and confirmed and affirmed in multiple books during the George Floyd protests, in his willingness to have the military deployed at the border and in all, all sorts of, if not illegal ways, certainly untraditional ways, in ways that concern a lot of people in the military.
- [32:46]
Nicole Wallace
Let's look at this from a strategic point of view, all right? And I want to give Donald credit, Donald Trump credit for where credit is due. He is a mastermind at manipulating the media and manipulating the public discourse. And what he does is distracts, distracts, distracts. So this entire exercise with pulling up 800 guardsmen is a distraction. And it is designed to take the conversation away from tariffs, which are increasing inflation and which he doesn't want to talk about and which American taxpayers are paying. He doesn't want to talk about, God forbid, Jeffrey Epstein and that scandal he doesn't want to talk about. You know, he doesn't want to talk about the cratering jobs market. So what does he do? He calls up 800 guardsmen and puts them on the streets of bloody streets of Washington, D.C. it is nonsense. It is not happening. It is fiction. It is Donald Trump setting the stage for what he wants to do and take away from what he doesn't want to talk about. That's, that is, And I think if you look at the strategic area, that's where we are with this.
- [34:06]
Joy Reid
I completely agree with you. And we have made sure to not take our eye off the thing they're distracting from, which is the economy. It is the Jeffrey Epstein scandal. I want to ask you, though, how men and women in the military feel about being so obviously deployed as a distraction.
- [34:27]
Nicole Wallace
You know, here's the terrible thing about it. And as I mentioned earlier, the National Guard is a, is by and large almost exclusively a part time force. So these are husbands, wives, sons, daughters. They've got jobs and they've got families. And some of them are going to school. So when you mobilize them, you take them away from their employer, away from the job that they've got. You take them away from their families, you take them away from their education. So this is a detractor. You also take them away from their regular military duties and their training. So they're not getting trained to do what it is they're supposed to be doing. Instead, they're going to be standing around at the post office in Washington, D.C. watching people walk by. This is all show and it is, it is absolutely going to have an adverse impact on recruiting, on retention. And these, these folks, you know, people sign up for the Guard because they want to help their neighbors, they want to help their country. My soldiers loved it when they were on flood duty, when they were on blizzard duty, when they were on tornado duty. Why? Because they were going right into their communities and they were helping their neighbors, their families, their friends. They were, they were doing the job they're still supposed to be doing. When they got deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, nobody liked to go there.
- [35:49]
Mitch Landrieu
But you know what? They did it.
- [35:50]
Nicole Wallace
They did it because this nation needed them. They don't do it because Donald Trump needs a distraction.
- [35:59]
Joy Reid
So interesting. Major General William Enyart and General Barry McCaffrey, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and insights with us. We are grateful. When we come back, former Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes, who served under President Obama, will join us on the stakes of this week's summit meeting between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and why experts believe Putin, the master Manipulator and ex KGB officer is laying a trap for Donald Trump. We'll bring you that story next.
- [36:34]
Nicole Wallace
Russia face any consequences if Vladimir Putin does not agree to stop the war after your meeting on Friday? Yes, they will. Yeah, well, there will be consequences. Tariffs. There will be, I don't have to say there will be very severe consequences. We'll have a quick second meeting between President Putin and President Zelensky and myself if they'd like to have me there. Now, there may be no second meeting because if I feel that it's not appropriate to have it because I didn't get the answers that we have to have, then we're not going to have a second meeting.
- [37:09]
Joy Reid
I'm not totally clear on what he's talking about, but it is clear that Trump is trying to tamp down expectations about any consequences or any actual progress being made with Russian President Vladimir Putin ahead of their face to face meeting this Friday in Alaska, which the White House press secretary is simply calling a, quote, listening exercise for Trump. When has he ever done that? In a virtual call today, alarmed European leaders begged Trump not to capitulate to Putin's demands. Well, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky reminded him that Putin is bluffing about his desire to end the war. Friday's meeting with Trump trying to negotiate an end to Russia's invasion of Ukraine without Ukraine at the table comes only days after Donald Trump said that any peace settlement would require, quote, land swapping by both Ukraine and Russia. He was vague on those details as well. Let's bring in former deputy national security adviser to President President Obama, MSNBC contributor Ben Rhodes. Ben, every time Trump opens his mouth about Russia, he is nonsensical, bordering on incoherent. But I wonder how anyone is looking at Friday's face to face meeting.
- [38:29]
Mitch Landrieu
I mean, I think the question is what exactly is the purpose of this meeting? Nicole? Because Vladimir Putin's conditions have not changed since the first day of the Trump administration. We've been through all kinds of promises from Trump from ending the war on day one to this summit. We've been through Steve Witkoff flying over there multiple times. We've had calls from Trump to Putin. And essentially the Russian conditions remain the same, which is a Ukrainian surrender on Russia's terms, that there's recognition that Russia gets to keep all the territories that it's annexed illegally from Ukraine, that Ukraine can never be in NATO, that Ukraine can't have meaningful security guarantees, which means that Russia could reinvade at a later date or try to intimidate and dominate Ukraine. That's been Putin's game all along, and it hasn't changed. And so the question is, why are we inviting an indicted war criminal who invaded his neighbor to US soil? For the first time since 2007? Putin's been to the UN but everybody comes to the UN this is an invitation to Putin, to Alaska to meet face to face with the American president. And it seems pretty clear that Trump is lowering expectations, perhaps because he realizes Putin is not inclined to give an inch here.
- [39:39]
Joy Reid
Whose job is it to tell Trump that in Russia, on Russian state media, which is essentially controlled by Vladimir Putin, they're laughing at Trump?
- [39:50]
Mitch Landrieu
I don't think people are paid at the White House to deliver bad news or news that Trump doesn't want to hear. And look, the reality here is that Vladimir Putin lives in very long periods of time, right? He's someone who looks at the sweep of history. He's someone who's had the same view of Ukraine for the 25 years that he's dominated Russian politics and the more than 10 years that he's been taking Ukrainian territory. Donald Trump thinks in news cycles, Nicole, like he wants to come out of a meeting with a big announcement, but the only way that he can get a big announcement is by essentially agreeing to Putin's terms, saying, well, there's going to be this cease fire and the Russians are going to keep all this land. And over to you, President Zelensky, to accept something that would be not only political suicide, but potentially, you know, the end of Ukrainian sovereignty over 20% of its territory and a really precarious future for Ukraine. That's the only way he's going to get the kind of Nobel Peace Prize press conference that he wants. And that's what he's hearing from the Europeans. I'm sure that's what he's hearing from Zelensky. Zelensky's said as much publicly that we shouldn't have to trade away land just to get a cease fire. You can get a cease fire and then negotiate additional provisions. But, you know, I think Trump, in his eagerness to just show progress, to show some breakthrough, to have a shiny object, is kind of miscalculating the person across the table from him. Because Putin, unlike a lot of people, unlike whether it's American law firms and universities, whether it's some of these European leaders, Putin is not one who's just going to capitulate to Trump. He's not afraid of tariffs. He's not afraid of sanctions. He lived under punishing sanctions For a long time now, if the consequences that he talks about Trump in that clip he played are just some more tariffs and some more sanctions, Putin's figured out how to deal with that and he'll deal with that going forward.
- [41:36]
Joy Reid
What is the fallout from the first point you made having a rather brazen war criminal? I mean, Putin decided to give out medals and awards to the soldiers who carried out the atrocities against civilians in Bucha in the early months of the war in Ukraine. What is the price or what is the cost for America's standing in the world to have Vladimir Putin on U.S. soil?
- [42:05]
Mitch Landrieu
Well, essentially it's America saying that the rules that we've been the guarantor of for 80 years don't have to be followed anymore. And look, I'm not suggesting that was working perfectly, right? It's not like people hadn't tried to break the rules. But the fact that you know that there's a punishment, you know that there are consequences, you know that countries like the United States, the world's strongest country, are not going to recognize you invading and annexing territory, you know, that's not just about Vladimir Putin. You know, that's a warning sign to other nations, maybe a warning sign to China that it might have designs on Taiwan, on. Right. And so I think the costs are you just see this collapse of any sense that there's a set of rules that nations are supposed to play by around the world and it's might make, right. It's a world of transaction. It's a world of deals. It's a world of very short term deals too. Even these tariff deals. You know, nobody thinks that they're going to last for any meaningful duration. Right? And so that's the danger here, is that we're going into the law of the jungle, which is very much the kind of world that Vladimir Putin wants. And that's why I think you see him very happy to have this meeting. You see Russian media celebrating it as a victory. Because you know what, it was just three years ago when Putin was very isolated and he was on the back foot diplomatically. Now Putin looks like he's the man who's driving events. It's the US President who looks eager to have this meeting with him.
- [43:27]
Joy Reid
What is the difference between Trump 2.0 with a Tulsi Gabbard as his intel person and Hegseth as his defense secretary in a room with Putin as opposed to Trump 1.0 at Helsinki in a room with Putin?
- [43:43]
Mitch Landrieu
It's like everything else in the Trump administration, 2.0. Right. It's just going to be the reality that Trump wants. Whatever happens in that meeting will be a huge victory. And we'll hear from the Pete Hegsess and Tulsi Gabbards of the world about how wonderful this diplomacy was or whatever Trump decides to do was. But importantly, it also means that there's no expertise. You know, Pete Hexeth is not some expert on Russia. Neither is Tulsi. Tulsi Gadberg's expertise is kind of agreeing with Russian talking points. In the first Trump administration, you had people like Fiona Hill, who was a Russia expert, working in the White House. You had people like Jim Mattis, who had been engaged in military contingency planning about Russia for decades, which Vladimir Putin knew. So it's a combination of amateurism and syncopancy around Trump. And look, Putin, you know, I couldn't dislike someone more than Vladimir Putin, but it's undeniable. He's been around the block. He's been doing this for 25 years. He's been in the room, all kinds of people. How is Trump going to walk into that room without any of the depth of knowledge that he lacks and that the people around him lack?
- [44:50]
Joy Reid
Benrose, we will continue to call on you. We'll watch this together, white knuckled as we may be. Thank you for spending some time with us today to prepare us all. When we come back, we have more from this week's episode of the Best People podcast with my friend and colleague, Melissa Murray. Share it with you next.
- [45:12]
Jessica Mackler
There's so many times when we talk about due process and the rendition of these Venezuelans to El Salvador without due process. And, you know, people in the comments are like, you know, due process is only for citizens. Not quite right. I mean, like, so there is also a basic education that needs to happen that hasn't been happening. And, you know, in the media, you kind of have to fill in those gaps. Like, okay, yes, non citizens don't have all of the same rights as citizens, but they're not completely devoid of rights. And in fact, they may actually have rights of due process that we must respect. And if we don't respect it for them, it means it's much easier not to respect those rights for the rest of us.
- [45:59]
Joy Reid
That was just one of the many, many aha moments from my conversation with Melissa Murray on this week's episode of the Best People. Her legal expertise, her compassion, her humor are not to be missed. Scan the QR code on your screen to watch on YouTube and as always, you can listen wherever you get your podcasts. One more break for us. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes today. We are grateful.
- [46:29]
Nicole Wallace
Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy live and uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments. With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen.
- [46:41]
Jessica Mackler
You can listen to Jeff Lewis live at home or anywhere you are. Download the SiriusXM app for over over 425 channels of AD, free music, sports, entertainment and more. Subscribe now and get 3 months free offer details apply.