“A deal has been reached with Iran”

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House

Episode: “A deal has been reached with Iran”

Host: Nicolle Wallace (MS NOW)
Date: June 15, 2026

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Overview

This episode dissects the much-anticipated but controversial peace framework reached between the United States and Iran after over 100 days of war. Host Nicolle Wallace, alongside prominent political and national security experts, scrutinizes the deal's substance, political fallout, and broader implications for U.S. credibility, the economy, and democracy itself. The episode features wide-ranging discussions with former Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman, Atlantic staff writer Tom Nichols, former Senator Claire McCaskill, and media reporters Oliver Darcy and Dominic Patton.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. The US-Iran Deal: Details and Lack Thereof

Segment: [01:35 – 13:58]

What’s in the Deal?

• Announcement: An MoU (Memorandum of Understanding) exists, including reopening the Strait of Hormuz, removing a US naval blockade, and extending a ceasefire by 60 days.
• Secrecy & Confusion: Exact terms are undisclosed. There is confusion and skepticism—even among Trump’s allies (Lindsey Graham: “I am somewhat concerned that Iran's view of the agreement seems different than what the American negotiating team is claiming. Time will tell.” [02:45])

Criticism from All Sides

• No Real Gains: Experts argue that the deal returns to pre-war status quo rather than achieving Trump's original, aggressive demands.
• Wendy Sherman: “There is no deal today. There is a memorandum understanding. Ostensibly that is a set of principles and agreement to begin real negotiations. But nobody knows even what the memorandum of understanding is. Congress doesn't know, the American public doesn't know, Israel doesn't know, our Gulf partners don't know, and the G7 that the President is meeting with now don't know either.” ([04:54])
• Arsonist & Fireman Analogy: W. Sherman likens Trump to “the arsonist and the fireman,” noting he stoked the conflict and now claims to settle it. ([05:45])
• Lack of Strategic Leverage: Sherman questions whether any US objectives have been realized: “[T]he Strait of Hormuz was open before…Saying this was a war of choice just doesn’t begin to say what it has done to our international standing…It has really reduced American credibility in the world.” ([07:30])

Iran’s Position and US Leverage

• The deal gives Iran significant funds ($12 billion immediately, another $12 billion after 60 days; claims up to $300 billion total for reconstruction), but offers little evidence of a meaningful check on their nuclear ambitions. ([11:24])
• Claire McCaskill: “The only thing that Donald Trump has done here is kind of solve a problem he caused...he's the arsonist. And now he's there trying to pretend that he's putting out a fire that he didn't start.” ([13:58])

2. Political and Global Fallout

Segment: [16:02 – 28:06]

US Global Standing Deteriorates

• Trump at G7: Allies wary; perception that U.S. is now weak—a “paper tiger.”
• Sherman: "We are seen as a paper tiger…he wants to be part of what he perceives to be the tough guys club, not…democracies at the G7..." ([16:26])
• Russian and Chinese Influence: Both are seen as aiding Iran, with President Trump complimenting their leaders rather than American allies.

Military Reputation at Risk

• McCaskill: “This administration is ruining the credibility of our military around the world. They are making us less safe by what they have done because now there's a whole lot of folks out there that go, wait a minute, they can't manage a military the size of Iran. No wonder Xi and Putin are high fiving.” ([13:58])

3. Domestic Consequences: Political Damage

Segment: [20:00 – 30:09]

The Economy Tanks—with Direct Political Costs

• Blue-Collar Disillusionment: Previously staunch Trump voters, especially white, non-college rural voters, are now swinging sharply negative on the economy.
• McCaskill: “What's really happening here with this swing in this approval rating is…you're not doing anything to the passion that the Democratic Party feels…But you are losing enthusiasm from the people in particularly rural America that are really hurting right now.” ([21:26])

Trump’s Disconnection from His Base

• Nichols: “He is now only talking to people who think the country is, quote, so hot right now. The only people who think the country is hot right now are billionaires…He is costing [his former base] money and hurting their standard of living in a way they directly understand.” ([24:28])
• Party for the Rich, Not the Base: Trump’s focus is on lavish events and personal aggrandizement, as highlighted during a gaudy White House party, while his traditional base struggles.

Electoral Implications

• Analysts predict these shifts could cost Trump and Republicans Congress and Senate majorities in upcoming midterms and threaten future elections. ([26:53])

4. Crisis in the Media Landscape: Concentration and Censorship

Segment: [32:11 – 44:03]

Media Takeover and Erosion of Press Freedom

• Justice Department’s Approval: The DOJ hastily approves CBS/Paramount’s acquisition of CNN parent Warner Bros., potentially putting Bari Weiss and Trump-aligned executives in charge of both.
• Oliver Darcy: “She’s blown up 60 minutes, murdered it, in the words of Scott Pelley and other 60 Minute veterans…I would hope that people don't self censor…But my guess would be…she's going to insist that the network…is more friendly to the Trump administration.” ([35:03], [36:20])
• Patterns of Political Censorship: Jim Acosta (quoted): “They're trying to put together a state dominated media system in this country and it has to be stopped. I mean, we already have one Fox in this country…But they're on the verge of creating a second Fox News in this country.” ([38:23])
• Consumer Choice and Brand Ruin: New leadership risks alienating core news audiences; legacy brands like 60 Minutes and CNN are at risk of politicized content and audience loss.

Legal and Brand Fallout

• State AGs Mobilize: Despite federal approval, state attorneys general (notably from CA and NY) are planning challenges to the merger, with high financial stakes for Paramount if the deal lags past fiscal deadlines. ([41:59])
• Oliver Darcy: “Once you lose someone’s trust, it’s so hard to gain it back…if you lose that audience, it’s not like there’s a new audience coming in to replace that audience.” ([43:02])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Wendy Sherman ([04:54]): “The president has acted as both the arsonist and the fireman, but there isn’t just one fire, and there are lots of embers, and he hasn’t really tackled them.”
• Claire McCaskill ([13:58]): “They are making us less safe by what they have done because now there's a whole lot of folks out there that go, wait a minute, they can't manage a military the size of Iran. No wonder Xi and Putin are high fiving.”
• Tom Nichols ([24:28]): “He is costing them money and hurting their standard of living in a way they directly understand. And he's doing it while...throwing big, stupid, ugly parties for himself.”
• Oliver Darcy ([35:03]): “We can kind of do the math here...she's making [CBS News] a lot more friendly to Donald Trump. She's blown up 60 minutes, murdered it, in the words of Scott Pelley…”
• Dominic Patton ([39:10]): “There's a long history...of people who've tried to become Fox News karaoke bands. None of them have gotten record deals, to use the metaphor. And the problem is, is Fox News viewers are pretty hardcore.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:35] Formal discussion begins: Announcement and skepticism of the Iran deal.
• [04:54] Wendy Sherman on the deal’s (lack of) substance.
• [06:27] Goals vs. outcomes: None of the administration’s public aims met.
• [09:33] Tom Nichols discusses economic dimensions and past Iran deals.
• [13:58] Claire McCaskill on military and geopolitical harm.
• [16:26] Sherman on US standing at G7 and among allies.
• [20:00] Wallace introduces dramatic political shifts in rural/blue-collar America.
• [21:26] McCaskill on the implications for midterms and beyond.
• [24:28] Nichols on Trump’s falling out with his own base.
• [32:11] Wallace, Darcy, Patton on media consolidation and editorial control.
• [35:03] Darcy’s analysis of CBS/CNN and journalism independence.
• [38:23] Jim Acosta’s warning about state-controlled media expansion.
• [41:59] Patton on legal and political opposition to the merger.
• [43:02] Darcy on the challenges of repairing damaged media brands.

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Conclusion

This episode of Deadline: White House delivers a sobering, incisive critique of the US-Iran deal as an emblem of failed strategy and declining American power. Experts argue Trump’s war has produced devastating economic, diplomatic, and military fallout, with early signs pointing to growing political costs—even among loyal voters. The episode also highlights how media consolidation under pro-Trump ownership could further erode press independence and public trust, cementing this moment as a crisis for both American democracy and its institutions.

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Transcript

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sponsored by Chumba Casino. This is an utter disaster. And this president, what he's advertising right now is nothing more than getting something open that was open before. And what's the price that we're also

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going to be paying?

[JD Vance]

We're going to be releasing billions of dollars to this enemy that now Iran is going to have billions of more dollars to rebuild their military and to fund their. Their terrorist proxies.

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This is a disaster.

[JD Vance]

This is a failed president and this has been a failed war that he's. That he's declared.

[Nicole Wallace]

Hi again, everyone. It's now 5 o' clock in New York. The White House is calling it a victory. But upon closer inspection, what appears to be taking shape, as far as we understand it, between the US and Iran seems to be at best a return to the status quo after more than 100 days of war. The two countries say they have agreed upon a framework for peace. A Memorandum of Understanding, or mou, already virtually signed by Trump in Vance, outlines a reopening of the Strait of Hormuz, a removal of the US naval blockade on Iran's ports and a 60 day extension of the ceasefire. Yet the exact details of the memorandum have not been made public. And already there are conflicting reports about what was agreed to, including the future of Iran's nuclear program. What does seem clear is that whatever is in this agreement is Far from the unconditional surrender Trump demanded back in March as a requirement for any deal with Iran. Even people like the Trumpiest allies in the Senate, Lindsey Graham, are apprehensive at this point. Lindsey Graham wrote this on X. I am somewhat concerned that Iran's view of the agreement seems different than what the American negotiating team is claiming. Time will tell. End quote. In its assessment of where we are now, the Washington Post reports how Trump began the war promising that Iranians or promising the Iranians that this was their time to fight back against their government that help was coming. Post writes this, quote, an uprising never happened in the nearly four months since Iranian leaders demonstrated an ability to withstand withering attacks from the most powerful military in history to shut down the Strait of Hormuz, cripple global energy markets and drive such a deep wedge between Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that the US leader spent part of his 80th birthday Sunday cursing out his Israeli counterpart. To journalists, we now await the specifics of the agreement at the G7 summit in France. Earlier, Trump said the MoU would be released pretty soon, sometime after Friday, and as senior official told reporters, details would be coming in the next 24 to 48 hours. Meanwhile, Tom Nichols writes this in the Atlantic, quote, trump and his team in record time just lost a war to a military mediocre but nonetheless extremely dangerous adversary. Even before we have the details, it is clear that Trump has failed to achieve every one of the goals he put forward for this war of choice. And now he's determined to sign, seal and deliver America's capitulation as quickly as possible. Capitulation to Iran as quickly as possible is where we start the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. Former Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman is here. She led the US Negotiating team that reached an agreement on the Iran nuclear deal in 2015. Also joining us, staff writer at the Atlantic, Tom Nichols. He's a professor emeritus of National Security affairs at the U.S. naval War College and political analyst. The former Senator Claire McCaskill is here. Ambassador Sherman, just tell us what you understand to be the state of play.

[Wendy Sherman]

Well, first of all, thanks for having me. There is no deal today. There is a memorandum understanding. Ostensibly that is a set of principles and agreement to begin real negotiations. But nobody knows even what the memorandum of understanding is. As you've pointed out, Nicole, the Congress doesn't know, the American public doesn't know, Israel doesn't know, our Gulf partners don't know, and the G7 that the President is meeting with now don't know either. They've been told verbally that everything is fine, the Strait of Hormuz is open, the blockade will go, we'll negotiate an agreement, but there has really been nothing that has happened. The president has acted as both the arsonist and the fireman, but there isn't just one fire and there are lots of embers, and he hasn't really tackled them. I'll stop in a minute. But this so reminds me. We were all glad when the violence in Gaza pretty much ended. But all of the details, all of the hard work of rebuilding Gaza, of giving the Palestinians a future, none of that is happening. We helped Ukraine, but the president has moved away from that. And there will be a discussion at the G7 about Ukraine, but Witkoff and Kushner certainly haven't done that deal. And my concern here is the president is going to declare victory and nothing really will get done.

[Nicole Wallace]

Ambassador, let me just follow up with you. I kept a list on the back of one of my sheets for the first, I don't know, 50 days of the war, of the different reasons that different cabinet officials stated on different days. And interestingly, in one news cycle, you could hear three different reasons. Trump had said, help is on the way. Rubio had said we were going to destroy their missile programs. Other Republicans talked about the nuclear program. If we could just take them one at a time, it would appear from America's own intelligence agencies, which are now rather notoriously, under leadership by Trump's closest political allies. Those agencies have reported that the missile programs have been rebuilt, that the nuclear materials are essentially untouched, and that the regime that replaced Khomeini is brutal and severe. So what in terms of publicly stated objectives, if any, have been met,

[Wendy Sherman]

as you said? Really, Nicole? And summing it up, not any. The Strait of Hormuz was open before the war of choice was begun. And saying this was a war of choice just doesn't begin to say what it has done to our international standing, what it has done to American families who have seen their prices go up, have seen how much it's costing American taxpayers, what it's done to our inventories of weapons that we might need in other parts of the world, should we ever be in a conflict with China, for heaven's sakes. And it has really reduced American credibility in the world. As the president ostensibly goes about trying to really negotiate a nuclear agreement, he's going to need more than Witkoff and Kushner. In reading the reports that have come out this afternoon from reporters getting briefed on this, it's almost like listening to a comedy. The briefer said something like one of the coolest things was, we got to meet senior leaders in Iran. My goodness, if I had said that, I'm sure Senator McCaskill would truly understand. I would have been ripped to shreds in the United States Senate when I went to testify. That's just not anything that's real here. This is hard work. It takes a team of experts. These guys have got to get serious. They really have shown they don't understand Iran. They have more hardliners now. They're more likely to want to go for a nuclear weapon. The protesters, the people of Iran, are in worse shape, not better shape, because, yes, Iran's economy is worse than. But what is Iran going to do with the money they get out of this? Is it going to help the people of Iran? I doubt it. So there is a heck of a lot of hard work here, and I don't know that the Trump administration has the wherewithal, the expertise, or, quite frankly, the patience to do the hard work that is necessary.

[Nicole Wallace]

Tom Nichols, I don't know how much time you spend watching Fox, but if you've spent any in the last 10 years, you. You have such an insight into the bizarre story diet. And one of the stories that got mountains of airtime was the money given back to Iran. I think the facts are this. It was a $1.7 billion payment that was a debt it was owed. It was part of the jcpoa, the right, aided largely by Fox's amplification abilities, distorted and perverted that. And it became one of the, sort of part of the campaign to blow up the, the, the Iran deal. This is JD Vance trying to answer questions about Iran's claim that they're going to get $300 billion to rebuild their country. The Iranians are saying that they're going

[JD Vance]

to have access to a $300 billion reconstruction fund. True or false? Well, Ed, that's the sort of thing they could have access to, funded by the Gulf Coast Coalition, so long as they honor their end of the obligation. I think that one of the things you're going to see, Ed, and people have to be skeptical of this, is that the hardliners in the Iranian system will overemphasize the benefits that Iran gets while underemphasizing all the things that they have to concede and all the things they have to provide in order to get these benefits.

[Nicole Wallace]

Even JD Vance doesn't have a pithy little retort for the prospect of Iran getting $300 billion to rebuild their country as a result of JD Vance and Donald Trump's war with Iran.

[JD Vance]

And Vance probably that was a softball because Vance probably doesn't want to talk about what's been leaked in the mou. And by the way, if this is such a great deal, why won't the administration show it to anybody? Where, at least according to the, to the leaked version that the Iranians are going with, The Iranians get 12 billion up front and then another 12 billion at the end of 60 days. That's separate from this $300 billion. So, you know, who knows how much money they're going to get? And I say this as somebody, you know, I, somebody was critical of jcpoa. I was worried that they, you know, seems like a really small amount of money now, but I was worried that too much of the, of the benefit was getting front loaded. But as it turned out, you know, once the deal was in effect, it was working. Trump unilaterally blew it up, and now it's going to send even more money to the Iranians, leave them with more political power, leave them with a clear veto over the Strait of Hormuz, something that was notional until it became demonstrated because of Trump's war of choice here. So, you know, you can understand that J.D. vance is, you know, tripping all over himself. I think it's very telling, by the way, that people like Graham, as you mentioned, Lindsey Graham, are talking about J.D. vance as the architect of this deal. You know, that is real. If you're J.D. vance, you don't want anybody, you know, honoring you with that title. And it shows you just how fast the bus is pulling up, that they, that they seem to be eager to throw him under.

[Nicole Wallace]

You'd rather be the architect of that hideous thing. The cage match, cage. The cage match, cage stage. I don't know. Whatever it is. Claire McCaskill, the Washington Post reports it like this. Trump sought to break Iran's regime. He settled for reopening the Strait of Hormuz, quote. In promoting a deal that halted the fighting, Trump and his top lieutenants said Iran had agreed not to pursue a nuclear weapon. But Iranian leaders, who have made similar pledges repeatedly for decades, suggested Sunday that the difficult conversations about their nuclear program were still ahead and would come only after the US Naval blockade on their ports was lifted. So we're not even going to have a conversation about the nuclear program until we've removed all of our leverage points. What, what, if anything, is America getting?

[Claire McCaskill]

Not much. And by the way, I don't think that you're even going to see a free flow of ships through the Strait of Hormuz until Iran gets paid. So the only thing that Donald Trump has done here is kind of solve a problem he caused. As the ambassador said, he's the arsonist. And now he's there trying to pretend that he's putting out a fire that he didn't start. And I think the saddest thing about this, first of all, I noticed that Lindsey Graham said Congress was going to have an opportunity to weigh in. Has he not been paying attention? This president doesn't think he needs Congress for anything, Anything. So I think that is pie in the sky. And the fact that Lindsey is expressing doubts tells you all you need to know about how. Really? Well, I was going to use a bad word here. This deal is. It's really bad. It's not a deal. So here's what I hate the most about it, though. I got to get this in. Our military is amazing. At one point in time, we had military leadership that was strong enough to advise presidents in a meaningful way. We were seen as almost invincible in the world because of the strength of our military and its leadership. This administration is ruining the credibility of our military around the world. They are making us less safe by what they have done because now there's a whole lot of folks out there that go, wait a minute, they can't manage a military the size of Iran. How do you. No wonder Xi and Putin are high fiving. No wonder they're excited. First of all, Putin can't believe that Trump has let him drag on in Ukraine like he has. And Xi believe that Trump is congratulating him even though he is one of Iran's allies. This is nutty foreign policy. It makes us weak, it makes it dangerous for America, and it does permanent damage to our standing in the world and the standing of our military.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. Ambassador, I was going to ask you to weigh in on exactly the same points that Claire is making. Trump is representing all of us, heaven help us, at the G7 right now. Europe is suffered even greater sticker shock on the fuel side than we have here. With the Strait of Hormuz being closed, what is the current state of our standing on the world stage?

[Wendy Sherman]

Pretty weak, I think. Senator McCaskill, Tom Nichols, exactly right. In their assessment, we are seen as a paper tiger in many ways now, and that is disastrous for us. She has helped Iran in this. Putin has helped Iran with intelligence, if nothing else in this. And instead, Donald Trump is saying how great they are. He wants to be part of what he perceives to be the tough guys club, not the Democrats, not the democracies. I mean, Democrats with the small D, not the democracies at the G7 who have the largest economies in the world. He'd rather sidle up with a bunch of guys who want to control the world and be hegemons. So I think we will see the president at the G7 being wind and dine. Everybody treats him with kid gloves because they get afraid that if they say something bad, you know, come and get them in some way, when in fact people need to continue to stand up to him, not give in to him.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. Ambassador Wendy Sherman, we love the occasion to get to talk to you. Unfortunately, with the story, it's almost always bad news. But it is wonderful to see you. Thank you for starting us off today. Tom and Claire, stick around a little bit longer. When we come back, whatever happens with the war in Iran, one thing is abundantly clear to all Americans. They feel worse and worse and worse about the state of the country's economy and their personal economy. And the political damage is piling up for Donald Trump and the Republicans. Also ahead, another giant step in the erosion of the free press in our country. But the Justice Department's approval of a megadeal that put CNN under the control of top Trump allies means we'll get to those stories later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. You know what's worse than a long wait? Flipping through old magazines in a waiting room. Instead, I power up Chumba Casino slots, blackjack, solitaire, roulette, bingo, and more. Boredom doesn't stand a chance.

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[Nicole Wallace]

Some stunning new reporting and a new examination of the current polls reveal Trump is struggling mightily with a segment of the electorate that has been staunchly on his side. They've elected him twice, but now they're growing angrier and angrier with the state of the economy following the launching of the war with Iran. New York Times reports this quote. Blue collar white voters are for the first time seriously doubting Trump's handling of the economy. A review of polling by the New York Times shows an extraordinary swing on that issue among white voters without college degrees between his first midterm election and now then working class white voters approved of his management of the economy by margins of 30 percentage points or more. Now recent polls show them disapproving by anywhere from 14 points to more than 30 points. Reuters is reporting similar findings in their most recent survey. Trump's approval among rural Americans has dropped 10 points since he took office, now at 50% from 60% in February of 2025. We're back with Tom and Claire. Claire, I thought of you when I read this piece in the Times. It's just such a dramatic swing. It's not that these are the people who dislike him the most. That group is Democrats. It's the group that makes up the largest number of Americans and that has swung the most dramatically. What does that predict for the midterms?

[Claire McCaskill]

Well, it's huge. Because here's the thing. I think it's sometimes easy for us to forget that margins matter. I think we look at places that are blue and red, and then we hear about swing, purple places. And what people don't realize is the way you flip a seat, whether it's a Senate seat or a congressional seat, is that you don't lose by as much in places that are not friendly to you. You lose by less. And that happens two ways. One way is you have people who decide to vote against who they voted for before, but many times it's because people stay home and other people show up. So what's really happening here with this swing in this approval rating is you're, you're not doing anything to the passion that the Democratic Party feels about taking over and getting some guardrails in place and stopping this insanity. But you are Losing enthusiasm from the people in particularly rural America that are really hurting right now. And by the way, they. They have a hard time relating to the people at Mar A Lago and the billionaires that he hangs out with. And by the way, they are really struggling with a farm economy that Trump has decimated with his needless war and his tariffs. And their health care is really in trouble. Many of them were getting some of the subsidies to get health care they could afford through Obamacare, and they've lost those, and they're losing their hospitals, and they're losing the ability to see a doctor without having to drive a long distance and paying a lot more for gas in their tank. So those things are going to make a big difference. And I don't think them putting out press releases about how taxes on tips are better is going to do it for them.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, I mean, Tom, there is a piece that to cover TRUMP For 10 years, you have to do, right? You have to look at what he showed his coalition and what he showed his coalition throughout his first term as president and throughout his four years. Most of his four years in exile was. I thought it was bs, but it's what he projected was Trump sort of holding court. It sounded like a lot of nonsense to me. But he was in conversation with his coalition. He is now in conversation with billionaires. He is now only talking to people who think the country is, quote, so hot right now. The only people who think the country is hot right now are billionaires and millionaires and the kinds of people you run into in Palm Beach. He is not in conversation with any of his own coalition that is feeling the pain of his economy or the military families. Thirteen people died in the war in Iran. So just talk about how completely willfully out of step he is with his own political coalition.

[JD Vance]

You know, for years, I think we all wondered, what is it going to take to break through? What is it going to take for a lot of the people who support to finally just get it that he doesn't care about them? You know, years ago, when Howard Stern, you know, kind of an alternative voice, you know, in politics, would say, he hates you, you know, and people would kind of roll their eyes and it.

[Nicole Wallace]

Just remember that, right?

[JD Vance]

It was a big deal when Howard Stern said that, but people just didn't believe it. Well, it seems to me that it took three things. First, he's a tired old man. He doesn't go out on the road. He doesn't have these rallies anymore. He doesn't have it in him. It's not there. I suspect that, you know, people out there don't really want to go to those anymore because that part's over. He got reelected. He's back in the White House. They all prove that it could be done. The second part, though, is that he has ruined the economy in ways that are directly traceable to him, which is very unusual. You know, most presidents get battered by big tectonic shifts in the economy. It's pretty rare. We have two decisions in particular, tariffs and a war where the President says, I'm going to do this, and then prices go up over here.

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[JD Vance]

He did it. He did it to himself and in a way that the average person can really grasp and understand. And the third part of that is he did all this while while redecorating the White House like it's Versailles or like a cheap, garbage, you know, dollar tree version of Versailles. He did it while throwing himself these, these ugly, you know, garish parties like the one we saw last night. So you've got all three of these things coming together. He doesn't want to talk to his base anymore. He caused. He is costing them money and hurting their standard of living in a way they directly understand. And he's doing it while he's throwing big, stupid, ugly parties for himself. And I think finally there are people out there, finally, thank God, going, you know, this guy just doesn't care. And I'm suffering because of this very rich man entertaining his very rich friends and doing a lot of stupid things. And I think that it's finally breaking through to people.

[Nicole Wallace]

Claire, this time story really sort of plugs all of the data and all the polls into the analysis. I think that Tom just gave perfectly. This is some sort of prediction of how it could impact 2028 from the new York Times. Even a more muted turnout from blue collar white voters who voted more than 2 to 1 for Trump in 2024 could imperil his party's chances in November. It is critical. That's John McLaughlin, a Trump pollster said of mobilizing the white working class. If the they don't, we lose the House and the Senate. The fourth point about Trump in this term is he's incapable of taking in information all of his time on Twitter and all of his time watching the news. And he seemed to read at least the Washington Post last time. He seemed to have a better sense of what was going on. I mean, when he says the country is hot right now, he seems to believe that that is the case, that his supporters think the country is Hot. His supporters don't. I mean, these are the numbers. This is his pollster. What do you make of where we are not just ahead of the midterms, but ahead of the next presidential.

[Claire McCaskill]

Yeah, I think what Tom said is right. I think he's exposing that. Really the part of the job he likes is the part that's about him. He doesn't really, he's not really interested in public policy. I mean, I remember when Republicans would come back from the White House after meeting, meeting with him about health care and they would just shake their heads and say he is clueless about this issue. He's clueless about the details. It's such a contrast to most presidents who had some intellectual curiosity about public policy. This guy has none. He wants to go places and ignore the fact that he's getting booed at sporting events. He wants to, you know, have parties that celebrate him. He wants to build stuff with his name on it or big stuff that is garish, that has his name in it or be called. He wants things to be called by his name. This is all he's really interested in. That's the only fun part of the job to him. The rest of it, he is bored with it. He was bored with what's going on with this war he started. And I think that folks out there are beginning to get it. And by the way, the ugly party last night, he thought that was going to get him well with white blue collar workers. He actually believed that having our military salute men who are going to go out and beat somebody who's down on a mat, beat them senseless. He actually thought that having our military salute those guys was going to get him well with people who can't afford to fill their pickup truck. And it won't. It won't. And by the way, anybody who saw any of it that was not a strong Trump supporter was turned off by all of it. I mean, he didn't help himself last night, he hurt himself last night. He doesn't get that part because he's so wrapped up in. Aren't I cool? Isn't this cool? I can do this. I can make the White House look like this. I can have the planes fly over. And it is so childish and it's so bad for our country. I hope our country never makes a mistake like this again. Electing a guy that is this shallow and vapid to the Oval Office, none

[Nicole Wallace]

of it even looks real to me. I had no WI fi this weekend, so I missed a lot of big events on television. But the images don't even look real. Claire and Tom, thank you so much for this conversation and for starting us off this hour. When we come back, one thing that happens in autocracies is that leaders find ways to give control of what people see and hear, what they consume in the media, to their political allies. That's happening right now. What it means for the rest of us After a short break.

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[Oliver Darcy]

Visit betterhelp.com Artificial intelligence is moving very, very fast and it's raising new questions just about every day about what it

[JD Vance]

is, what it is.

[Oliver Darcy]

When all is said and done, what is the end game? I'm Chris Hayes and as part of my podcast why Is this Happening? I'm speaking with leading experts each week to help ground that conversation.

[Nicole Wallace]

We're right now in a situation where

[Wendy Sherman]

it's very difficult to understand what is

[Nicole Wallace]

real and what's not real.

[Oliver Darcy]

Why is this happening? The AI Endgame, a special miniseries from Ms. Now Start listening today.

[JD Vance]

Wherever you get your podcasts, you should realize that maybe there are some things that I don't know about doing news that's actually factual, that doesn't try to push ideology or any sort of anything that has to do with politics. The news is the news. The truth is the truth. Facts are facts.

[Jimmy Uso]

They're not left, they're not right.

[JD Vance]

And the moment you come in and start doing that, that's when you lose your core audience. They are ruining the First Amendment. They're ruining the freedom of the press. And as Scott Pelley says, they she they're murdering CBS News or 60 Minutes and Freedom of the press.

[Nicole Wallace]

That was from my conversation with Don Lemon on this week's brand new episode of the Best People podcast. He speaking there about Bari Weiss and the new leaders of CBS News on the destruction of the First Amendment and journalistic independence across CBS News at the hands of their editorial director Bari Weiss and the autocratic style media control that the Trump sycophants in charge of that network have done by turning over editorial considerations to what Donald Trump would like. Well, on Friday, the Justice Department cleared the way for CBS parent company Paramount's acquisition of Warner Brothers, CNN's parent company and the $111 billion bid by Paramount controlled by Trump's allies the Ellisons. Wall Street Journal reports the DOJ's closing of its investigation into the merger surprised the DOJ investigators coming, quote, before career staffers who were concerned about the acquisition had an opportunity to object, according to people familiar with the matter, end quote. The approved merger could also put Barry Weiss in charge of editorial content at all of CNN as well as at CBS News. And according to status, it quote, marked the culmination of David Ellison's campaign to win over the one person who ultimately mattered most in getting the deal done, Donald Trump. Behind the scenes, his father, Larry Ellison leaned on his long standing relationship with the president while David Ellison made repeated trips to Washington privately assuring Trump administration officials that CNN would undergo significant changes under the new ownership, easing Trump's long standing animosity of the network, end quote. I want to bring in Oliver Darcy who covers all things media and his newsletter status. Also joining us, executive [e-mail], dominic Patton. Oliver, what promises did David Ellison agree to make it cnn?

[Oliver Darcy]

Well, we don't know exactly what it is. He has reportedly promised sweeping changes at the network and I don't think it's a mystery. I mean we can kind of do the math here. We've watched what Barry Weiss has been doing to CBS News since she took over last October and it's pretty obvious that she's moving that network in more MAGA friendly waters. She is making it a lot more friendly to Donald Trump. She's blown up 60 minutes, murdered it, in the words of Scott pelley and other 60 Minute veterans. And so, you know, we don't know exactly what she's going to do when she gets her hands on cnn. It seems like she is poised to have some editorial oversight over that network. But it's probably going to be what Donald Trump wants. After all, that is why he has blessed this entire deal.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, you worked there, you know, a lot of the people we just watched the Scott Pali, Sharon Alfonsi Cecilia Vega, Bill Owens, you know, saga sort of play out, you know, slow at first and then all at once, I think is the expression. What would you, what would you suggest folks at CNN be prepared for?

[Oliver Darcy]

I mean, I think they should be prepared for everything. What I would say is I would hope that people don't self censor over there as this deal goes through and as she takes over. I think that's often what happens at these organizations when there is leadership change and it doesn't need to happen. But my guess would be just looking at what she's done at CBS News is that she's going to insist that the network in a variety of different ways, is more friendly to the Trump administration. Maybe that's welcoming more Trump voices on cnn. Maybe they might make some anchor changes. We really don't know what they're going to do. It seems though, Nicole, that when you look at 60 Minutes, the Crown jewel of American television news and how Mary Weiss just totally blew that show up, it seems like nothing really is off limits for her and the Ellisons when it comes to reshaping these networks. I think a lot of people thought that the 60 minutes was too sacred, you know, that she wouldn't go and blow that show up. And she did. And so if you're at CNN, you're looking at that and you're thinking, well, if 60 Minutes is an off limits, it seems like nothing must be. And you know, there's mass fear and anxiety in that network about what's going to happen should Bari Weiss have editorial oversight.

[Nicole Wallace]

So, Dominic, this is just a news piece, but I think there is a tendency among people like myself to cover this as a media story, but this is a consumer story. And I think part of the, the 60 Minutes false sense of comfort was that it was a ratings bonanza, right? It was not just critically acclaimed, it was a massive commercial success, not just as a broadcast product, but as a digital product. Same goes for Colbert. With that stipulated, let me show you what Jim Acosta said on my show last week about what this broader remaking of sort of the media and information landscape could look like.

[JD Vance]

This is a very serious moment in this country right now. The American people need to be aware of what's taking place. Donald Trump, he's gone after Stephen Colbert, he's trying to go after Jimmy Kimmel. They're trying to put together a state dominated media system in this country and it has to be stopped. I mean, we already have one Fox in this country. Do we need to. I don't think we need to. But they're on the verge of creating a second Fox News in this country.

[Nicole Wallace]

The other piece of that, though, Dominic, is this MAGA media and Trump said about 30% is going to be the most overserved segment of the population. What do you see happening just in the broader media landscape?

[Jimmy Uso]

I see oversaturation. And I think that there's a long history and I think everyone at CBS News should be aware of this long history of people who've tried to become Fox News karaoke bands. None of them have gotten record deals, to use the metaphor. And the problem is, is Fox News viewers are pretty hardcore. Now, there was the incident in 2021 when Fox doubted Donald Trump's assertion that the 2020 election was stolen. And there was a migration to Newsmax and they got them back pretty quick. I think that you're not going to get a lot of Fox News viewers and Fox News is very successful, let's be honest, on CBS News, that Titanic has sunk. So I think what more we're looking at here is this is not about consumer choice. This is not about. And of course, we've looked at as Deadline just posted just now, as I just posted, you know, there's a lot of politics from the state attorney generals looking at maybe trying to block this deal that the federal Justice Department has now fast tracked. But I think one element of this is there is an audience of one. You paraphrased it in the beginning of this segment. This is all about Donald Trump being pleased and being serviced. Once that happens. And there's a few very important dates in the calendar for Paramount, Skydance and the WBD merger. Once that all happens, it might be a whole different ball game. The thing about Hollywood, the thing about media, the thing about politics, Nicole, that you know more than anyone in all your experiences, it's transactional and it's fluid. And there's a lot flowing around here. A lot of it is toxic muck, let's be honest. But there is also places where people might be like, okay, now I got what I wanted, now I move on.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, it's also, well, at least traditionally had a whole lot to do with brands that are up and brands that are down and the Trump brand is in the toilet. So I'm not sure what you do. It's a massive media company tethered to that. I want to talk more about your piece. I have a million more questions for you. I'm going to ask both of you to stick around through the break. A quick reminder, everyone can listen to all the incredible things Don Lemon shared as an independent journalist who is also under criminal investigation by the Trump Justice Department. He is my guest on this week's episode of the Best People podcast. You just scan the QR code on your screen to listen now or download it. Wherever you get your podcasts, let me know what you think on Bluesky or Instagram. We will be right back. We have definitive break and we'll be here on the other side. Rebecca with Oliver and Dominic. Dominic, you're reporting on state attorneys general's concerns, syncs up with federal career DOJ folks concerns. And I wonder if there's any prospect of using that information reported in the Wall Street Journal to bolster their legal opposition to the merger.

[Jimmy Uso]

I think so, Nicole. Look, I think that this is a train that has definitely left the station with the ags. This is definitely, almost certainly, don't want to say definitely in America, but almost certainly going to happen in the next few weeks. Paramount are aware of it. They've hired Jeffrey Kessler to help defend them on it. This is a real issue here because you're seeing both that happening, but there's the calendar of the midterms. There's also very importantly for Paramount, people should remember this, they have a September 30th deadline. It's called the ticking tax. At that point, if the deal isn't done, they have to start paying hundreds of millions of dollars every month to shareholders for Warner Brothers discovery. So this is moving in real terms, both politically and financially. And I think every part that the state AGs, especially California's Rob Bonta and Lietta James in New York especially every part they get to, it is only adding more weight to their cases.

[Nicole Wallace]

Oliver, who will be in charge of repairing all of the brand destruction that has happened at the hands of Larry Ellison's son, David Ellison and Barry Wise.

[Oliver Darcy]

That's a good question. I don't know if anyone can repair this. I mean, I think it's going to be a very difficult job for anyone to repair the damage that's happened at CNN and CBS News. Once you lose an audience, you know that they'll say, like, it takes a long time to gain someone's trust and you can lose it like that. And once you lose someone's trust, it's so hard to gain it back. And the thing about traditional television, linear television, which people are probably watching us on right now, the audience for that shrinking. And so if you lose that audience, it's not like there's a new audience often coming in to replace that audience. That you lost. You just want to retain the audience. You have the best you can. And I don't know, I mean, if, I don't know if it's possible to get this, this Trump stick, stick or whatever you want to call it, off of these networks, maybe, you know, a few years into this, they can find a way to move on. But it's going to be very tough. And by then, you know, I don't know where linear television is going to be.

[Nicole Wallace]

Just going to, they're going to have all these clunkers and lemons. Everyone's going to be getting their news from you guys. Oliver Darcy, Dominic Patton, thank you both so much for joining me today. When we come back, Donald Trump so name is reportedly finally at long last off the facade of the Kennedy Center. We'll bring you the latest reporting on that story next. According to the Kennedy Center, Donald Trump's name is finally off the facade of the Kennedy center after blowing by a court ordered deadline to remove it. Cruz apparently finally took it down overnight on Saturday. But as crowds gathered outside of the center to witness and cheer the removal of Trump's name, they couldn't see anything because of a massive tarp that was in the way. That tarp shielding Trump from embarrassment is still up. Two days later, we caught some glimpses of the removal of the letters behind the actual cover up. But it seems like we'll have to wait a little longer to clearly see the center restored to its original name. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes this evening.

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