Mark Elias (4:20)

It's great to be here.

Nicole (4:22)

Sometimes when we have these conversations, I feel like this is the thing we've been talking about now for nine years. What's different about them being in the go phase of this effort?

Mark Elias (4:35)

Yeah, it's very different for two reasons. First of all, and I don't think anyone should overlook what you said, Donald Trump is not operating from a position of power. His poll numbers are terrible. He is facing the likelihood that his party will lose control of the House and perhaps even the Senate. So that is a backdrop that we can never lose sight of. And what is different is that there are literally no guardrails. I mean, whatever we may not have thought highly of in the past as guardrails they were at least pretending to be guardrails. There are none. I mean, Pam Bondi does not pretend to be a guardrail. Kristi Noem does not pretend to be a. A guardrail. You know, Republicans in the House and Senate, they don't pretend to be guardrails. So this is Donald Trump not just lying at will, but also acting at will, acting as the authoritarian that he wants to be.

Nicole (5:19)

What's the end game?

Mark Elias (5:21)

The end game is that he is going to try to override the will of the electorate if Republicans lose. He is setting this up so that he can make it harder for people to vote. We're seeing that already. That he can.

Nicole (5:33)

So to change the Constitution of the electorate seems to be correct. The effort.

Mark Elias (5:38)

Right. Then if that fails, he will try to suppress voting in the actual conduct of people who are able to vote.

Nicole (5:46)

Right.

Mark Elias (5:46)

And then if that fails, he will escalate it to try to seize ballots or otherwise interfere in the counting and certification. And look, we saw all of those progressions in 2020. Every single thing I just listed, we saw him do in 2020. And then we saw violence.

Nicole (6:03)

So let's just put those rings out, because I think that's really helpful. The inner ring is to change the constitution of elections. Say if you're a naturalized citizen who has the right to vote in our going to so harass and intimidate you with the possibility of prosecution, investigation that you don't even show up. The next ring is we're going to physically intimidate you with ICE at all the voting polls. The third has been the lawmaking. The 48 states that pass voter suppression laws predicated on the big lie that there was fraud, something that Bill Barr helpfully debunked for us in 2020. And then the outer ring, as if the vote is so enormous in the Democrats favorite, they'll get in there and try to switch the count.

Mark Elias (6:41)

That's exactly right. And so just to put slightly different targets in people's head. So first they target women, right? Forget about naturalized citizens.

Nicole (6:51)

They.

Mark Elias (6:52)

They've. They're trying to enact an agenda that would target women who change their last name when they're married. And then if that fails, forget about targeting ICE at the polls. They will make it impossible for U.S. citizens to get to the polls by closing streets, by the kinds of mayhem we saw them engage in in Minneapolis. And then if that fails, then you start to see the, the rating of, of offices like we saw in Fulton County. And so this is not hypothetical conduct. This is conduct that this administration has proven itself both willing to undertake, but also, frankly, Nicole, they're boasting they're going to do these things. I mean, this is part of why I think it's so hard for people is that we're used to finding the COVID up and then working back to figure out, okay, what's the conduct here? They're telling us the conduct. I mean, in some ways I almost wish that there was an encrypted message in a vault someplace in the White House.

Nicole (7:47)

We'd get more press coverage because then

Mark Elias (7:48)

we're getting more press coverage.

Nicole (7:49)

Yeah, yeah. Look, I mean this is, and Vaughn, to your great credit, you've been down there covering this story all week. But this is sort of the problem with the Trump story. Our gaze goes toward the secretive or subversive act when the whole presidency is now enacted, subverting the public will, it

Mark Elias (8:09)

can be quite rich.

Vaughn Hilliard (8:11)

Right. And I think that in so many ways what we're living through and me standing here in real time in Georgia is really the shadows of 21 and 2022. And there's a lot that's happened in four and five years, Nicole. But I think it's important to go back to that moment. Number one, you know, if you look at Wisconsin, right after Donald Trump lost the election there, he put pressure on the Republican led states legislature to do an investigation into so called fraud. The House speaker at the time, they actually hired a private investigator. That's my Michael Cableman who did a year long investig. He ended up coming with his conclusion. Right after he came up with his conclusion that there was mass fraud, Donald Trump said that he wanted Wisconsin to decertify the election. The same thing happened in Maricopa County. You remember the cyber ninjas were hired by the Republican state legislature. They went and did their investigation.

Nicole (8:57)

I was thinking the secret ninjas, they were the cyber ninjas. That's right.

Vaughn Hilliard (9:02)

And that's what we're living through in Georgia right now. I was at that state election board meeting where those three of the five members, they essentially have whatever power to do whatever they like. They not only ever subpoenaing Brad Raffensperger, but just today, what do they do? They put forward a motion and voted to hire a private investigator, somebody who, we don't know who this individual is. Despite the state, the secretaries of state office already having two private investigators on hand to conduct whatever looks into fraudulent claims that they have. And so I think the question there comes ultimately, where does this go? Does it turn into the taking over the Fulton's counties election, changing the amount of early days, changing weekend voting, changing where Dropbox are changing voter registration efforts. I think that those are all of the questions. But what is the one thing that is behind all of this? It's the fact that Donald Trump continues without necessarily knowing who these officials are at the local, county or state level, but essentially directing them from above to move forward with these type of efforts to ensure that he has a better shot at holding on to Republican majorities this November.

Nicole (10:05)

Yeah, but Vaughn, what are they looking for? I mean, Brad Raffensperger was a Trump supporting secretary of state in Georgia. Kemp was a Trump backing governor. Those are the two that certified the veracity of the vote. Chris Krebs, a lifelong Republican, said there was no fraud in our country's elections. And then Gabe Sterling, who was Raffensperger's deputy, also a lifelong Republican, was involved in administering the elections. And it's been investigated and reinvestigated. It's been hand recount three times. There was no fraud. So what did they hire an investigator to do?

Vaughn Hilliard (10:37)

It's not clear what they could possibly come up with because the FBI, if you look at the affidavit, every single one of the claims they put forward have already been debunked at length over the course of the last four or five years. And so what is this investigator ultimately going to find or put out there? Well, you know, it didn't take much to justify the FBI moving forward with a search warrant and search and seizure. And for Donald Trump, right. He said if we get in rid of mail in voting here, putting to the ideas of voters that there is mass fraud within the mail in voting system. He just said if we get rid of mail in voting across the country, we Republicans win elections for the next 50 years. And so at this point, and we heard from so many voters like some here in Rome, that right, they believe in the integrity of their elections, they may still support him at the same point. Donald Trump has one playbook that we have seen him play for more than 10 years now. And frankly, you know this are talking about strategy for the midterm elections. We've been covering them all a long time. And I just haven't seen really any different playbook besides going back to the idea of mass immigration, changing our elections and fraud in the elections to somehow justify putting Republicans back into office.

Nicole (11:42)

Let me show you, Amanda Carpenter, what Senator Ossoff had to say about this. The fact of all of the Trump allies who counted and recounted all of the ballots in Georgia

Tyler Redicure (11:57)

and Just so people who may have forgotten how many times were the ballots in Georgia recounted, recounted over and over again, court case after court case. And then you've got Tulsi Gabbard. The nation's there. She is Albade, looking like a spy,

Mark Elias (12:19)

which I think she is.

Tyler Redicure (12:20)

She is Director of National Intelligence. And they're not supposed to be doing anything within the borders of the United States. She's spying on the FBI for Donald Trump, apparently. Let me say, if you, if you live in a major democracy and the nation's spy chief is showing up at raids on sensitive election sites, something has gone wrong. Something has gone wrong.

Amanda Carpenter (12:46)

Well,

Nicole (12:49)

Amanda, I don't know that this is a law, but it is a norm that has never been violated before. In the past, senior intelligence officials, if they had to do any domestic travel for a commencement speech or anything, always alerted the White House because of the optics that Senator Ossoff is talking about there.

Amanda Carpenter (13:08)

Yeah, I mean, this is so sweeping. And the thing that I sort of get frustrated about is a lot of people talk about as if the threat to elections are, is a future thing. This is happening now. And I think we should be very clear eyed about the fact that this will be our first openly authoritarian election. It is underway now. We are facing oppressive conditions from our own government. And if you want to talk about a framework for how we should view this, the way I think about it is sort of two buckets, like the Trump administration is openly seeking to interfere with the way that we compete in our elections. And that has to do with our free speech rights, to protest ICE for candidates, to go on cable TV shows, to go on talk shows at night, the smearing of potential candidates and anyone who may stand in his way that comes from the White House on a regular basis as a means of intimidation. The retaliatory investigations that we see, the list goes on and on. So that is the first bucket. They want to change the way we compete by intimidating people and using every love or government they can to crack down on people who challenge, challenge their authority. And then the second bucket is that they're openly seeking to change the way that votes are counted. That has to do with voter registration, the way that we go to the polls, the election rules. And then ultimately, I think we're going to see, you know, more investigations in places where he doesn't find the votes as needed. And we're going to see the same kind of playbook that we saw in 2020. But it's different this time, as Mark was getting to, because they do control so many lovers of power and they know how to use it. And yes, I think national emergencies are going to be part of it. But the biggest threats that I see coming forth and playing games in here are sort of like this three headed hydra as represented by dhs, DOJ and Intel. You can put a face on it, Kristi Noem, Pan Bondi, Tulsi Gabbard, because they're doing it now. And so I think we need to be very clear eyed that this isn't something that we have to like look into a crystal ball and say it's going to happen because they're putting the pieces in place now. And I get so frustrated, Nicole, and I'm sure you do too, is that when Trump says, you know, essentially I want to nationalize elections, there's a slew of editorials from all these supposedly responsible Republicans that say, well, he can't do that because xyz, what is he doing now in Fulton County? Why is he rerunning? Why is Tulsi Gabbard there? So let's be up front that when he says he wants to nationalize elections, he's probably going to try to nationalize elections and he can't do that per se. And we're not going to have elections canceled, but they're going to put their thumb on the scale when it comes to the way we compete and the way we count.

Nicole (15:49)

Amanda, you're probably not old enough to have been a Republican at this point, but I am. Republicans, after working on campaigns, used to go to other developing democracies and help them administer their elections. It's some of the sort of legacy of McCain Republicanism. And campaigns used to not last all four years. So you'd work on a campaign, you'd take, I don't know, two weeks off.

Amanda Carpenter (16:14)

Tell me more about this time. It sounds great.

Nicole (16:16)

It was great the old days. But I mean the idea that you're now describing something much more in line with Russian elections and it took Hungary a long time. I mean, people that have gone and studied Orban, Orban didn't do all this in the first 11 months. It took them a long time. But I think the other thing, when you're talking to people that don't have their noses against the glass like all of us do, they say, but in November, Democrats swept. Just talk about sort of balancing the reality and the truth. I completely agree with your assessment with not making people despair and fail to recognize their agency.

Amanda Carpenter (16:55)

Well, the best way to protect your rights is and to defend them is to Use them actively. And right now, that is our best tool. I mean, Donald Trump, did you notice that he was wearing a purple tie today? I thought that was kind of strange. You know, like, he's pretty committed to his red tie brand. Maybe he's trying to change his image a little bit because he recognizes that he has a problem. Maybe he's getting a little hot and sweaty under the pressure.

Nicole (17:23)

I always think that, like. Like, he just dropped a cheeseburger on it and like. Like they didn't carry it. Remember the stories about how Hope Hicks used to iron his pan on the plane? Like, I always view, like, the poor. Right? The poor, undignified. Like, being a White House staffer used to be just so proud. And now it seems to include, like, ironing and maybe carrying the purple tie.

Amanda Carpenter (17:44)

Well, hey, if more staff are doing that, I'm perfectly happy. Rather than trying to rig and change election outcomes when they shouldn't. But, you know, they're very focused on changing these outcomes. When Donald Trump talks about, like, we've identified 15 places where we might have to take over elections, they have surgical precision for how they want to approach this. And so, you know, I have a lot of optimism going forward because I've seen the many people of Minnesota such set a great national example of what they were willing to do for to attack their democracy, to turn out in the streets. I've seen it in the people of Chicago, and people are rejecting this. I don't know if you saw Nicole, but today, Donald Trump put his image in a big banner over the Department of Justice right above the words Department of Justice, literally, as if, look, I am above the law. And maybe that does jazz up some MAGA supporters. But I think most Americans, because it is on our DNA to reject this sort of tyranny, to look at that and say, that is not what America is supposed to be. You can celebrate the 250th anniversary of America, but you can say no to that. You can say no to this looming image hanging over your head, his mug shot, what it looks like on the Department of Justice, and say that has gone too far because, you know, this sort of propaganda presidency that we see, this is about him taking up public space that he doesn't own or deserve. Our tax dollars pay for that building and those prosecutors to uphold the rule of law, not protect Donald Trump and do his bidding. And I think that is just the perfect image. And I looked at that, and it just completely energized me to do the work I do. And I think if More people look at that, they'll feel the same.

Nicole (19:31)

Yeah, I mean, it's also, he's lost the plot on what men with big hands do. They don't need their picture on like every trinket and building in Washington, D.C. it's disgusting. Vaughn, we are so glad that you are there and doing that reporting and we're so grateful that you started us off with it. Thank you. Our panel six round will bring Miles Taylor in. On the other side of our break also had how judges continued to hold the line and push back against Donald Trump and his deeply unpopular policies, including his mass deportation agenda. The latest a federal judge is holding an actual Justice Department lawyer in contempt. Right now it's over an ICE detention case in Minnesota. It comes as a new DOJ report finds dozens and dozens of orders by judges are being ignored by Trump's team. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

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Nicole (20:52)

Miles Taylor, you have to be bursting. This is all your area of expertise, your thoughts and just take us through how much of this he endeavored to do, wanted to do, aspired to do in a first term.

Tyler Redicure (21:07)

A lot of it. I have to say I was bursting at the seams on Georgia, but everyone else put it so well, Nicole. But I have to say this on Georgia. I can't not say to you guys that in my mind this looks very simple. This is the continuation, Nicole, of a criminal conspiracy that Donald Trump started five years ago. People forget when they hear about this story that he was indicted on 13 felony counts in Fulton county for trying to meddle in that election. Five years later, he's back at it. They said it was foreign interference. They said it was irregularities in an affidavit. And then Trump said the truth in that interview a couple weeks ago with NBC. He said, those agents are going to find out who really won in 2020.

Vaughn Hilliard (21:53)

There it is.

Tyler Redicure (21:53)

He gave up the plot. It's like these people want to go to prison. He basically admitted that the federal government is conducting an illegal and unconstitutional federal recount of a state's election results. Now, Marco Lias would be better positioned than me to make that legal determination, but it sure as heck looks like an illegal federal recount of an election if that is what the President is saying is the reason they are there. And I would say if I was on Capitol Hill right now and preparing for a Democratic majority, this would be at the tippy top of my investigative list.

Nicole (22:26)

Well, Miles raises such a good point. He's so obsessed by his own criminal exposure and Fulton county is the only jurisdiction other than the federal government, Jack Smith's cases to indict him.

Mark Elias (22:39)

Yeah. And so I want to address a couple of things about this. The first is you ask how many times the ballots were recounted. So Brad Rattenberger conducted a full hand recount of every ballot in the state of Georgia in the aftermath of 2020 election. I know because I was representing President Biden and I objected to it because the fact is what he was supposed to do is a risk limiting audit, which was a selection of the ballots. And instead Brad Ratzenberger decided that he would hand, hand recount with full observation from both parties, both campaigns, one ballot at a time until all of them were counted. Then when that was done, Donald Trump's campaign sought another recount.

Nicole (23:22)

And I think Biden picks up a few votes.

Tyler Redicure (23:24)

I believe that's right.

Mark Elias (23:26)

And then they sought another recount. So then there was a full machine

Nicole (23:30)

recount of every ballot, or at least three.

Mark Elias (23:32)

Yeah, so. So these ballots have been counted and recounted and recounted. And then of course, there's been litigation after litigation. And so to Miles's point, there is no way that at this point the federal government is going to do anything with these ballots other than contaminate them, other than degrade them. They are not equipped to do a recount. They don't have the protocols, they don't have the outside observers, they don't have the trained people on how you handle and count ballots. So what we are watching right now, as you said, is a continuation of a crime which was an effort to overturn a free and fair election state of Georgia and then to systematically lie about it. Well, right now he's using the power of the federal government, the power of the criminal process, the US Attorney's office, the FBI, and occasionally apparently the head of the dni. The DNI to do this. And people need to understand this for what it is.

Nicole (24:33)

I mean, Miles, just jump in on what it is. I mean, what it is is the most profound and pathetic displ of political weakness and terror. Like, how is that playing in the manosphere?

Mark Elias (24:45)

Well,

Tyler Redicure (24:48)

look, I will say I don't work in the White House Counsel's office, but I remember when Don McGahn and even Pat Cipollone sometimes had the spine to go to the President and tell him what he was planning to do would be against the law. I've got to imagine if those guys were still in the counsel's office, they would be saying, you know, Mr. President, this is a bad idea. Last time you got charged with crimes in a state. You couldn't be pardoned for those. You can't pardon yourself for those. Why on earth are they even letting him do this? And we know the answer because he's brought in sycophants and flunkies who will not stand up to him. And I do have to comment on another thing that Mark just said about the DNI. The DNI's reason for being there was Executive Order 13,848. She says that gives her a reason to be there investigating ballots. Well, guess what, Director? I wrote Executive Order 13848 when you were not in the executive branch. And it does not give you the authority to be at domestic FBI raids of elections. It gives you the authority to write a report 45 days after an election to tell the President whether or not a foreign bad guy interfered. We never envisioned the DNI going to those places. And in fact, that Executive Order, which anyone can look up, includes language that there should be a separation between intelligence and law enforcement. And those determinations for this reason, because you don't want the nation's spy chief, as Jon Ossoff said, showing up to root around in Americans ballots. So they're lying to the American people. They're lying to the Congress when they write letters to them with those types of justifications. And the president has made it very obvious why they're lying. It's not about any of these other things. It's all about him relitigating an election that he lost fair and square. He wishes he doesn't. And he's trying to hijack and destroy our democracy over his knee because he's so vengeful about it.

Amanda Carpenter (26:42)

Can I add a point to that, Nicole?

Nicole (26:44)

Please.

Amanda Carpenter (26:45)

Sorry. Yes, we rightly are concerned about the optics and presence of Tulsi Gabbard there as an intelligence official. But the FBI did the raid in. They shouldn't have been there in the first place either. If you look at the search affidavit, they had the stuff that they had listed in there were items that, to Mark's and Miles's point, had already been investigated. So when you want to do a raid and do a search, you have to have evidence of a crime or suspicion. And all the claims in there had already been investigated. So, you know, Tulsi Gabbard has a lot of responsibility. But I don't want to let the FBI off the hook either. And if we are going to have some kind of congressional oversight or otherwise look back at that, because that search warrant should have never been issued.

Nicole (27:30)

Well, and the claims in the affidavit are adjacent to the very same claims that cost FOX News, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars because they were lies. When we come back, there's been a major escalation in the federal judiciary's efforts to stop Donald Trump's deportation policies as Rock Legends U2 release a brand new song, an anthem really, which pays tribute to Renee Nicole Cole. Good watch.

Tyler Redicure (28:09)

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Nicole (28:18)

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Tyler Redicure (28:23)

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Nicole (28:31)

It seems that judge's patience with Donald Trump's Justice Department has finally run out. Expired after a year of repeated non compliance with judicial orders. A judge in Minnesota has held a Trump DOJ lawyer in contempt. New York Times reports this quote. According to the ruling by Judge Laura M. Provenzino, a federal district court judge in Minnesota, the government failed to return, quote, identification documents belonging to Rigoberto Soto Jimenez, a detained immigrant whom she had ordered to be released. With all of his property returned. The judge ordered a $500 daily fine to be imposed on Matthew Izhara, an Immigration Administration lawyer, for each day the documents were not returned. Beginning Friday. New York Times is reporting that Mr. Izahara is a military judge advocate at JAG who has been detailed as a special assistant U.S. attorney. DHS responded by calling the judge's order a, quote, abuse of judicial power. It is part of a broader thwarting of judicial orders. Politico reports this quote, the Trump administration acknowledged violating court orders issued by New Jersey's federal judges more than 50 times over the past 10 weeks in cases stemming from the Trump administration's mass deportation push. Judges in Minnesota recently assessed that the administration violated 94 court orders in January. In one month, judges across the country have described rampant and purposeful violations of their orders. And if there's any doubt about the man responsible for the lawlessness at his Department of Justice, once again, look no Further than that banner we showed you earlier in the hour, unfurled today on top of the Department of Justice headquarters in Washington. We're back with the panel. This seems to be the point.

Mark Elias (30:19)

Yeah. Look, if we don't start holding the lawyers accountable who are doing this, then we are not going to make it through the next few years.

Nicole (30:27)

How do you do that?

Mark Elias (30:28)

Well, I mean, look, I'm glad this judge held this lawyer in contempt for $500, but what about all those other lawyers? You know, you just listed a whole bunch of contempt.

Nicole (30:39)

94 in January in New Jersey.

Mark Elias (30:41)

And so, you know, I've beaten this drum before, Nicole, when we've gotten on this subject. Judges need to stop deferring to this Department of Justice as if it is a normal Department of Justice. These presumptions of regularity, presumptions of good faith that where they assume that if you are from the Department of Justice and you tell them something, it is probably true. And if you have an excuse, it's probably a good one, it's just not true. And so I'm glad that judges are getting frustrated, but spare me your frustration and start taking action. Hold these people in contempt, hold their clients in contempt, hold the administration in contempt, and put real teeth behind this, because otherwise we're just going to see more and more of it. And then one final thing I want to say. You know, you worked for a White House that didn't always like what judges ruled. I've been on the losing end of cases that I didn't like. Have you ever, could you ever have imagined an administration lawyer or an administration official disparaging judges? I mean, say, you know, you would have insisted that an apology go to that judge. We did. We're sorry that we didn't get the man, the individual's personal effects back to him. It won't happen again. Right. This administration villainizes judges. And think about how abnormal that is from the White House you worked in.

Nicole (32:01)

Yeah. I mean, Miles, the piece of the Trump story, the fabric that he's sewing across the country that I can't get my brain around. Trump is Trump and we should cover him as a phenomenon. I'm choosing my words carefully. That does what he does. Everyone around him knows better. Everyone. Everyone. And I guess, I wonder. Comcast helped pay for the demolition and destruction of the East Wing of the White House. Paul Weiss goes down, capitulates to Donald Trump. The lawyer who did that has now been fired because he's in the Epstein fil, emailing with Jeffrey Epstein about, I don't know, visas or something. Kathy Rumler was a very, very powerful person in the legal world. Worked for President Obama, had inappropriate emails with Jeffrey Epstein. She has lost her job. Things that you do that are wrong come to light eventually. Now, I don't know when either of those emails with Jeffrey Epstein happened. I don't know if they felt bad about them at the time. I don't know if they had anxiety as the Epstein Transparency act roared through Congress with bipartisan support, was then signed by Donald Trump. But people that are doing the wrong thing usually know that. Except Donald Trump. Again, I'm cleaving him out of this conversation. Everybody else knows they're on the wrong side. Not of history, but of right now. Why do you think they don't do the right thing?

Tyler Redicure (33:29)

Well, look, people are real short term thinkers. Unfortunately, it's why the voters put Donald Trump back into office. They forgot at how exhausted they were after four years. And the people inside of his administration are short term thinkers and they have this feeling and are acting like he'll be around forever, he'll be around forever to protect them. But I will say when they're reminded that he won't be around forever to protect them, their behavior starts to change. And as Mark notes, with the sanctioning of lawyers, that's a good first step because when other lawyers in the department start seeing their colleagues getting sanctioned and hopefully with harsher sanctions than he even we've seen, they start to get a little bit nervous about signing their name on that next brief. Ooh, I don't want to be the one to lose my law license. Eventually. That really matters. And when you look at the magnitude of this, Nicole, there's a lot of places where a lot of people should be nervous. It's not just the contempt rulings. Thousands of federal judges, thousands of rulings from federal judges have found that this administration, not just doj, has broken the law. Hundreds of those rulings were from judges appointed by Republicans who said the administration engaged in illegal acts from DOJ to DOD to dhs. And dozens of constitutional, fundamental constitutional violations were found to have been committed with direct ties to the White House. There is a vast landscape of investigative activity that could occur now. I think, unfortunately, a lot of that accountability won't happen until perhaps power changes hands in Congress and then perhaps until changes in the White House. But that doesn't mean there can't be accountability between now and then. And maybe I'm getting too far over my skis here, but I've talked to a couple of People in this space. I wanna talk to Mark Elias and others about it that I think there needs to be a project that I would call the Onnotice Project where we have a couple of great law firms in Washington D.C. and elsewhere assess Trump administration policies and impartially assess whether the execution of those would be lawful or not. And then some good Samaritans can email all the people in the department and agencies who might be responsible for carrying out those orders and say I want to make you aware and the public is aware of these legal assessments that you might be engaged in activity that could violate the law. I think if you're a person in government who's on the receiving end of that email that you see a policy you're part of executing might be illegal, you might think twice about doing it. We've got to get creative about putting people on notice that the Constitution isn't going to be forgotten three years from now. It's going to come back with a vengeance.

Nicole (36:08)

Yeah, I mean, and I think this inability to see a horizon is a real sort of design flaw in how this moment is covered. They will be gone in three years. He will be gone, he will be voted out and a Republican or a Democrat will replace him in less than that in the November elections of 2028. And the flagrantly illegal act of sending people to seekot in defiance of the United states Supreme Court's 90 ruling on people's right to due process citizens and noncitizens. The act of killing two American citizens on the streets of Minneapolis, the act of demolishing the east wing of the White House without any knowable permits or any process of review. I mean the acts that are flagrantly in violation of the laws that exist now, to say nothing of the reforms that could be put in place after, are mind boggling. All the people sort of sleepwalking over the cliff of that which is knowingly illegal. Speaking of, there's some breaking news I'm going to read in a very short break and tell you about on the other side. I don't know if it's illegal or not because I haven't read it, but we'll get to the bottom of it and tell you about it on the other side.

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Nicole (37:48)

Amanda, you raised the role of the FBI being carrying out that raid in Georgia. Here's what its director is doing today. This is new reporting from my colleagues Carol Enig and Ken Delaney, and quote, FBI Director Kash Patel flew today on the FBI's Gulfstream jet bound for a trip to the Winter Olympics in Italy to watch one of his favorite sports, men's ice hockey. That's according to three people. Patel, an avid hockey player and fan, will be at the Olympic festivities, plans to attend the bronze medal competition in men's ice hockey Saturday and the competition for the gold medal on Sunday. An FBI official confirmed Kash Patel's travel plans, but said he has several official government purposes for attending, including a meeting with an ambassador, briefings on Olympic security, and other government meetings. Government accounts estimate it costs US taxpayers at least $5,000 per flight hour for the FBI Gulfstream to fly, meaning Kash Patel's trip to Milan is likely to cost as much as $75,000. One of the many reasons Donald Trump is at 36% in the approval polls and sinking like a rock is because tariffs have made many things more expensive for the American people. But Donald Trump has a new jet, lots of money in his bank account from his crypto plan and cash. Patel is taking a $75,000 trip to the Winter Olympics.

Amanda Carpenter (39:15)

Can we bring back Doge and can I run it? Because I have some ideas. You know, on one hand, I guess we can all be glad that he's not doing bogus investigations, but there's absolutely no reason for the FBI director to be abusing taxpayer resources to go watch a hockey game at the Olympics. Dude, watch it on tv. Quit wasting our money.

Nicole (39:38)

I want to just come back to and sort of recenter us on the rule of law and this idea that the laws that currently exist absent any sort of post Watergate like reforms, which I think there will be a public appetite for people that don't get rich while in office. I do think the public will be disgusted by how much wealth Donald Trump and his immediate family gobbled up in just the first year, it's almost incalculable. It's actually unknowable because they also violate every existing ethics norm and rule and law. What do you make of the visible displays of excess?

Mark Elias (40:14)

I think it's disgusting. And I'd ask the people who voted for Donald Trump, you know, the people who work hard every day For a living. This is how you want your money being spent, right? You pay tax, you work hard, you pay taxes so that Cash Patel can fly on a private plane. Look, if Cash Patel wants to go to the Olympics, let him book a plane, like, take it like anybody else. You know what I mean? The Kristi Noem jet, You know, I saw pictures of that.

Nicole (40:37)

Her blanket.

Mark Elias (40:38)

Yeah. I mean, it's absolutely outrageous. It's disgusting. And again, if you are a Republican who says you want smaller government, this is what you're paying for. If you're someone who thought Donald Trump was gonna drain the swamp, this. This is what you got. It's not just that Donald Trump is looting the treasury, he's letting everybody loot

Nicole (40:58)

the treasury, but this is who they are. Why does Tim Cook go to the White House in a tuxedo the day after two Americans are killed in Minneapolis

Mark Elias (41:05)

and give them an award? Right?

Nicole (41:06)

And like a real or fake. Is it a real gold brick or a fake one?

Mark Elias (41:09)

I don't know. The Swiss guys came in with some kind of gold brick. Everything is gold. Everybody's got gold. I mean, look, at the end of the day, for all of these people who are. Who are showing up and sucking up to Donald Trump or working in this administration and constantly telling lies about. About how great he is, history is going to remember you. You know, your, Your. Your time is going to come and go in power. Your time is going to come and go. You know, you've been in the White House. It's the fast four years. You know, it's a fast period of time. But your children and your grandchildren are going to be asked about you. And this is what they're going to know about you. They're going to know that when everything was on stake, when democracy was on the line, when you had this guy in the White House, you were sucking up to him and you were getting free trips.

Nicole (41:54)

And let the Epstein Transparency act be the current example. No one thought the files would ever be released. They put out a memo in June saying nothing to see here. Pam Bondi made the big white binders and then refused to release any information to their own influencers, their own most rabid backers and supporters in sort of MAGA media. And then the public got a whiff of what was in there. They had an intuition that the women were telling the truth. The women were always telling the truth. In this case. And today, a prince was arrested.

Mark Elias (42:23)

Yeah, and look, I don't happen to think highly of Pam Bondi. I didn't think that she ought to be confirmed the attorney general. But I sometimes think about it like Pam Bondi could have been remembered as an attorney general in Florida. And instead, she's going to go down in history for what she's done for this.

Nicole (42:39)

Amanda Carpenter, Miles Taylor, Mark Elias, thank you all so much for spending the hour with me. When we come back, Donald Trump's signature economic policy isn't working very well, and Trump's top economic adviser is blaming the messenger. We'll bring you that story next. Despite Donald Trump's promise scam to reduce US Imports and make us rich with his aggressive tariffs policy, we Learned today that US imports only grew during 2025, with the trade deficit in goods hitting a record high. Meanwhile, Donald Trump's top economic adviser is complaining, whining to CNBC about a research paper that matched other sources with similar findings that says American taxpayers are bearing the brunt of the cost of Donald Trump's tariff. As the Washington Post editorial board puts it today, quote, having access to more information is a good thing, but Kevin Hassett would prefer to, quote, discipline researchers whose calculations are inconvenient. And while even our closest ally has dealt with Donald Trump's threats of debilitating tariffs, according to a new Politico poll, Canada's concerns about the US Are not just about the trade war anymore, but nearly half of all Canadians now viewing the United States of America as a bigger threat to world peace than Russia. The reality of Donald Trump's presidency and policies. To be continued. Another break for us. We'll be right back. Quick reminder, Professor Scott Galloway is my guest on this week's episode of the Best People podcast. You just scan the QR code there on your screen to listen now or download it wherever you get your podcast. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes tonight. We are grateful.

Tyler Redicure (44:23)

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Mark Elias (44:45)

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Tyler Redicure (44:47)

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