"A new agreement with Iran"

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House – "A New Agreement with Iran"

Host: Nicolle Wallace
Date: June 18, 2026
Main Guests: John Heilman, Sue Gordon, Angelo Carusone, David Frum, Cornell Belcher

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Overview

This episode of Deadline: White House dives into the political and geopolitical fallout from President Donald Trump's newly negotiated agreement with Iran. Nicolle Wallace leads a charged, incisive roundtable featuring prominent analysts and former intelligence officials dissecting the deal’s origins, terms, hypocrisy, criticisms from both the right and left, and the broader implications for US credibility, security, and domestic politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Context: How Did We Get Here?

• Recap of the Obama-era Iran nuclear deal (JCPOA) and Trump’s long-standing criticism of it.
• Trump's new deal comes after a short, destructive war with Iran, which failed to produce clear US military or diplomatic gains ([03:36] Wallace).

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2. Universal Criticism—Mostly (From the Right, Too)

• The new Iran agreement has generated brutal criticism across the ideological spectrum:

  • Right-wing voices (e.g., Fox News’ Mark Levin, Senator Bill Cassidy) condemn Trump’s concessions ([02:44] Wallace).
  • Even typically loyal supporters like Ted Cruz can no longer “keep quiet,” indicating just how controversial the deal is on the right.
    • Quote: “The regime has not changed. They're just richer.” – Sue Gordon ([02:30])
    • Quote: “This is the worst foreign policy blunder in decades.” – Sen. Bill Cassidy (as read by Wallace [04:16])

• Major points of right-wing outrage:

  • The up-front release of $300 billion to Iran.
  • The permanent cessation of military action and dropping of threats before Iranian compliance.

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3. Military Failure Preceded Political Bargaining

• David Frum offers a harsh military assessment: The US lost control of the Strait of Hormuz, and the war was a strategic disaster.
  • Quote: "Iran took America's best punch ... and never relaxed its hold on the Strait of Hormuz. They won." ([05:22])
• Frum and others argue the deal is not a sellout of a military victory, but the political aftermath of a badly played and lost war.

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4. Conservatives Fracture: The ‘MAGAs’ and the ‘Hacks’

• Angelo Carusone distinguishes factions on the right:
  • “MAGA hawks” cheer initial shows of military force but decry the end result.
  • “MAGA hacks”—media personalities and loyalists—parrot Trump’s justifications even without specifics.
• Trump’s absence (due to travel) has left the propaganda machine unsupervised, leading to stronger public criticisms ([07:06] Carusone).

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5. Hypocrisy: Trump's Attacks on Obama’s Iran Deal vs. His Own

• Trump previously excoriated Obama for giving Iran money, but his deal releases 100 times more assets ([09:12] Wallace).
• Quote: “You could make an incredible supercut showing all the times he attacked [Obama] for giving money… pallets of cash… Trump's given them by a factor of 100 more.” – John Heilman ([10:01])
• Trump argues the funds are from allies and not directly US dollars—panelists reject this as meaningless spin: “Iran doesn’t care where the money comes from, they’re just richer ... and they’re stronger.” – Heilman ([10:01])

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6. Lifting of Banking Sanctions: A Quiet Huge Win for Iran

• Trump dropped banking sanctions, so, unlike Obama, he can wire transfer the funds rather than send physical cash.
  • Quote: “They're getting the money upfront. This time in bank transfers because they're back in the banking system. That's a huge win for them.” – Wallace ([13:57])

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7. Trump's Worldview: Might Makes Right, Personal Mythology

• Wallace reads a passage from the new Haberman-Swan book, unveiling Trump’s self-image as a world-historic brute force leader in the vein of Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, and even Hitler and Stalin ([15:44]).
  • Carusone: “He’s playing by a different set of rules... Might makes right and this self-mythology.” ([16:47])
• Trump’s approach is power-centric, dismissive of norms, and unmoored from policy consistency.

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8. The War’s Results: Ceasefire, Scarcity, and Lost Opportunity

• Sue Gordon (former Principal Deputy DNI) gives a sobering assessment:
  • US credibility, alliance trust, and global standing are badly diminished.
  • Iran’s people now face increased scarcity, empowering the regime to crack down on internal dissent.
  • The “deal” is just a temporary ceasefire with undefined terms; it's unclear how (or if) nuclear verification or meaningful limits will be achieved.
  • Quote: “We have... created legitimacy for Iran as a nation… We have given them standing that they didn’t have before.” – Gordon ([27:13])
  • Quote: “The world is not better off, the US isn’t better off, and Iran, though damaged, is in weirdly a stronger position than it was before.” – Gordon ([27:58])

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9. Public & Political Backlash: Economic and Political Consequences

• Polling shows 64% of Americans disapprove of the war ([33:10] Belcher).
• Trump’s approval on the economy is at a record low, even among white non-college and rural voters—constituencies he previously dominated.
• Gas prices and inflation are squeezing Americans, making summer plans and daily life dramatically more expensive.
• Trump’s own words (from his press conference): “Every time we talked about the possibility of peace, the stock market shot up like a rocket ship. ... The stock market is more brilliant than anybody there is, including the people on this stage other than me, of course.” ([30:44])
  • Wallace skewers the admission: Trump’s overriding concern was the stock market and not becoming another Herbert Hoover.

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10. Political Theater and Trump’s Decline

• The roundtable reflects on the pettiness of Trump’s recent attacks (e.g., “Jerk Off” nickname for Sen. Ossoff) and his declining rhetorical abilities—a metaphor, perhaps, for the splintering of his coalition and grip on the party ([37:28], [41:17]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Military and Political Loss:

  • “The United States lost the war on the battlefield. The war was mismanaged... This political debacle is the consequence of military failure.” – David Frum ([05:22])

• On Trump’s Hypocrisy Over Iran Payments:

  • “Trump gave him, like, by a factor of 100, more money.” – Nicolle Wallace ([09:12])

• On Iran’s Gains:

  • “They're just richer and they're stronger.” – John Heilman ([10:01])

• On the Current Deal:

  • “It’s just one little slice to show you... the Trump administration’s hallmark of saying one thing at one time and then doing the opposite or moving the goalposts...” – Nicolle Wallace ([21:26])

• On International Standing:

  • “The loss of standing, the loss of reliability of the United States as a partner... has been our standing as a consistent force for sovereignty.” – Sue Gordon ([22:41])

• On Missiles and Security:

  • “[Iran’s] ability to launch missiles has been... substantially degraded.” – John Heilman ([21:20])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:36] – Nicolle Wallace situates the new Iran deal in recent history.
• [05:22] – David Frum’s scathing critique of US and Trump.
• [07:06] – Angelo Carusone on MAGA media factions and Trump's absence.
• [09:12] – Wallace lays out Trump’s hypocrisy on Iran and the money.
• [13:57] – Wallace and panel explain the real “cash” issue is lifting sanctions.
• [15:44] – Haberman-Swan book excerpt on Trump’s self-image.
• [22:09] – Sue Gordon’s blunt analysis of the agreement’s consequences.
• [27:13] – Gordon: the US inadvertently “legitimized” Iran.
• [30:44] – Trump’s press conference: stock market obsessions.
• [33:10] – Cornell Belcher: polling data on war and economy.
• [37:28] – Senator Ossoff handles Trump’s childish nickname.
• [41:17] – John Heilman on Reflecting Pool algae as metaphor for Trump era.

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Tone & Language

• Crisp, biting analysis: Wallace and guests bring trademark wit and clarity.
• Direct language: Frequent use of sarcasm and sharp, unsparing critique.
• Balanced expertise: Mix of policy, military, political, and polling perspectives.

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Summary: Why This Episode Matters

This episode captures a unique moment where both allies and critics of President Trump condemn the Iran deal for rewarding coercion and military failure with immense (and immediate) concessions. It exposes the myth of “deals from strength,” highlights hypocrisy, and paints a sobering picture of diminished US global power and trust. The panel’s conversation connects the geopolitical to the personal, tying the war’s unpopularity to everyday economic hardship and shaping the political landscape leading into the presidential race.

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For listeners and non-listeners alike, this episode offers an unusually bipartisan, clear-eyed post-mortem on a signature Trump foreign policy move—linking it to broader patterns of leadership failure, political theater, and America’s shifting global reputation.

Transcript

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[John Heilman]

Today, because America negotiated from a position of strength and principle, we have stopped the spread of nuclear weapons in this region. Because of this deal, the international community will be able to verify that the

[Nicole Wallace]

Islamic Republic of Iran will not develop a nuclear weapon.

[John Heilman]

This deal meets every single one of

[Nicole Wallace]

the bottom lines that we established when

[John Heilman]

we achieved a framework earlier this spring. Every pathway to a nuclear weapon is cut off.

[Nicole Wallace]

Hi again, Everybody. It's now five o' clock in the east. President Barack Obama's 2015 Iran deal was a feat of careful diplomacy, an agreement reached with a regime that numerous presidents before him had tried to rein in unsuccessfully. But just three years later, President Obama's success pulled out of that deal. Now here we are eight years after that, and Donald Trump has reached a new agreement with Iran. When he is touting is better. Yet that does not seem to be the conclusion of anyone else who has examined it. Criticisms of Donald Trump's Iran agreement are coming in quickly and loudly from every single direction on the ideological spectrum in our country. Take a listen to how people on the right see it.

[Sue Gordon]

They're better off than they were before the hostilities began and that should not

[John Heilman]

be the consequence of war.

[Sue Gordon]

The regime has not changed. They're just richer.

[John Heilman]

If they down blend, that means they can up blend and just bring it

[Nicole Wallace]

back to weapons grade.

[John Heilman]

So if it stays in there, it's a.

[Nicole Wallace]

It's not acceptable for anyone that wants

to make sure they don't have a

[John Heilman]

they want to make sure they have nuclear weapon bill. It's a terrible deal. I mean, we have to wait to see like how it gets implemented, but just on its face. First of all, it acknowledges and the president's statement yesterday, he acknowledged Iran's coercive power over the global economy.

[Cornell Belcher]

I will say that the early returns do not look wildly promising at this point.

[Nicole Wallace]

I don't want to see theocratic Islamists who want to kill us made stronger. So if this deal is giving them $300 billion, that's a mistake. I mean, for Ted Cruz to say that he's swallowed a lot, including insults against his wife Heidi over the years, that he has been sycophantically loyal to Donald Trump. So that's how bad this deal is. It's so bad that even Ted Cruz can't keep quiet. Over on social media, Fox News host and ardent Trump supporter and backer and booster Mark Levin went on extensive tirades calling out the deal, of which I'll just read a sampling quote, before a deal is finalized, we just declared a cessation of military action permanently and we committed to not even threatening force. Why would we agree to immediately drop the most important leverage we have over the regime in advance of it complying with MOU requirements and whatever else is decided in 60 days can, like hear him shouting through all those exclamation points. And then there's this searing takedown from another Republican, this one Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, who writes this quote, ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave. Iran's nuclear ambitions were not curbed. And they have learned that threatening the Strait of Hormuz works and will undoubtedly leverage that in the future. Now Iran gets to build brand new infrastructure under this deal. Before the war, the strait was open, Iran was being crushed by sanctions and 13 service members were still alive. Now 13Americans are dead. Families have paid billions at the pump, sanctions will be lifted and the bombing has stopped. This is the worst foreign policy blunder in decades. The worst foreign policy blunder in decades is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. Media Matters for America President Angelo Carazone is here. Also joining us, Puck News senior political columnist and national affairs analyst John Heilman. Also joining us, staff writer at the Atlantic, video podcast at the Atlantic. And video podcast host David Frum is here. David, I was reading your commentary and I couldn't figure out who was more mad, you or Mark Levin.

I think on this one I may be more mad because Mark Levin is focused on the things that happen after the 60 days expire. We may never get there. I'm mad the United States, actually, Mark Levin has an idea that the United States won this war on the battlefield and gave it away at the negotiating table. I think the truth is the United States lost the war on the battlefield. The war was mismanaged. Trump had no the way to maybe imagine this. Before February 28, the world dealt with a mystery. Iran's best move was closing the Strait of Hormuz. But everyone knew if the united, if Iran did that, the United States would do something, and no one knew who would win. Which was stronger, the Iranian move against the Strait of Hormuz or the American reaction? The world now knows the answer to that, which is Iran took America's best punch, kept shooting its weapons, kept shooting its missiles, kept shooting its drones, and never relaxed its hold on the Strait of Hormuz. They won. They won on the battlefield. The United States was not able to reopen the Strait of Hormuz by force. So what I think a lot of people on the right are getting wrong. And I, by the way, this is my tradition. I come from them, and on this issue, I'm still associated with them. What they got wrong is they think there's been some kind of political sellout of a military success, when in fact, because the war was so badly planned, because there were no allies, because there was no public buy in, the war is a military failure first, and this political debacle is the consequence of military failure.

Angelo, there is a distinction and a difference between the criticism on the right and what David's articulating, but it is just as bruising. I mean, the swipes against Trump over the Iran deal are some of the most aggressive and frontal that have been levied at him in this second term.

[Angelo Carusone]

Yeah, and I think there's two things to consider here that sort of strike me as I sort of, sort of plays out. One is that the lines between MAGA hawks and MAGA hacks, it becomes a lot clearer here because there are people that really are buying into something that Pete Heggs had said, who himself, again, is sort of part of the right wing media. We shouldn't ignore that fact when he basically said, no, the difference between this and Obama's deal is that we started from position of strength. We bombed them first, and then we negotiated as opposed to just straight up negotiating. We didn't just use words. We showed them our power or our potential power out of the outset. We used our military first. And that is part of what is tantalizing to some of the MAGA hawks is that they get to use military might before they, as a pretext, even before they do anything. And that is what they're furious about, as David so eloquently sort of articulated. But it does help draw the line because you have people like Benny Johnson who are a good MAGA hack. Weathervane. He's already celebrating it. And in the same sentence where he celebrated the MoU, he said it hasn't been released yet. Nobody's seen it, so it's all just speculation. And then went on to again reiterate his celebration. So I think that's relevant. And to me, one significant. The second thing is I think this is important. Trump is away. He's away. You know, one of the things we've talked about in this show many times is that he's always up late at night watching reruns of Fox News or a DVR version of it and then posting all these things. He's working the refs. He's being like an assignment editor. He's getting in the heads of people. He's not been doing that because he's been out of the country. He's been busy. He's not watching tv. And that means he's not posting on Truth Social. He's not helping keep people in line. Would he still be getting this criticism? Yeah. Would it be the same? I don't think so. I don't. Because when he's away and he's not out there using his audience and that as a cudgel to get people sort of in line, would it be sandpaper on the edges of the critiques? You know, they. They start to say more things, they're more willing to go a little bit further. And I also think that is somewhat revealing as to how the larger narrative engine works, both when he's available and when he's not.

[Nicole Wallace]

Heilman, you would have to have been, like, not just asleep, but under a rock to have missed Donald Trump's, I think, decade of attacks on President Obama for the lie that he gave Iran money as part of the deal. What he did was to unfreeze Iranian assets. Trump gave him, like, by a factor of 100, more money. And I wonder where you think. It's always interesting to see where the line is. The criticism has been brutal. The attacks from Kennedy probably the most eloquent. But all the vibes against Trump are extremely negative. I wonder if you think it's just sort of like, belching out their disgust or if it creates, like, a real divide.

[John Heilman]

I think those can be the answer can be both on those. On that front, Nicole, and through some of that period of time over that 10 years, I was in fact asleep under a rock. And I still didn't miss Donald Trump attacking Barack Obama. And you could make an incredible supercut showing all the times he attacked him for giving money, for the lie of giving money, pallets of cash and all the rest of it. I mean, I'll just say that that is clearly one thing that people on the right, and I would say of, of all stripes, I mean, there are clearly, to Angela's point, there are clearly some, what I think of as not even, I guess, MAGA hacks is right. The grifters who are, and the hardcore isolationists whose attitude is, we never wanted this war and we're glad to be out of it and we don't really care what it costs us in terms of blood, treasure, international prestige, etc. They're just happy to be out. Right. But most of the rest of the conservative universe is against it and the money is a part of it. And I think what they see very clearly, and I'm not sure whether what voters will say about this, because Trump is clearly playing a political game on the money, Nicole, which is to say, you know, we're not. The United States is not giving Iran any cash. It's all coming in a fund that, you know, yeah, maybe in the MoU we say we guarantee this money, but it's all coming from a fund. It's coming from the allies. And if they meet the certain things, if they lived up to certain standards, they're going to get the money. You know, who doesn't care about that? Iran doesn't care about that. Or from Iran's point of view, their attitude is if unfrozen assets equals this much in the Obama deal and the what the half a trillion dollars, half a trillion dollars that we're going to get from this deal with, whether it comes from American allies, whether it comes from some kind of an arm's length fund that, that Trump can say isn't direct subsidy to the Iranians. They don't care because you know what they are, they're just richer. They're richer and they're stronger. And just to go back to another point that had been made here, a smart point that David Frum was making at the beginning, here's the way in which this is not just a failure of politics, but a failure on the battlefield. You listen to Trump talking in that press conference a couple days ago about what is the means of enforcement of this deal. Well, if they deviate from the deal, if we don't get the deal signed in 60 days or if they then deviate from the deal, we're going to bomb them and we're going to bomb the hell out of them. I'm going to bomb them, bomb Obama, bomb them. You know what bomb we have already, according to Donald Trump and Pete Hexith, we have already bombed the hell out of them. And you know what bombing the hell out of them did? It killed. It killed a bunch of civilians. It damaged some amount of Iranian infrastructure. But what it did not do was win the war. And if there's any lesson that can be learned from this war that people will teach in history departments, political science departments, that the Naval war College everywhere 30 years from now is about the limits of air power, about how you could do a lot of damage by bombing a country, but you can't win a war with air power alone. This is why people like Bob Kagan said from the very beginning, the only way you're going to win this war is with ground troops. And no one has the stomach for that. So what are we doing here? But Trump continues to say, well, we're going to bomb them if they don't do what we. What they've agreed to do. To which I say, you have bombed them by your own account back to the Stone Age, like five times. You've threatened to bomb them out of existence multiple other times and then didn't do it. And they're still standing and extracting control, the Strait of Hormuz, half a trillion dollars. And. And basically they're in a better position, as we've said, a bunch of people have said today, better position they were than when the war started. It's not just the status quo ante, it's the status quo ante plus. And yet Trump continues to think that somehow, I think he seems to actually believe this, that standing up there and pounding his fist about how the ultimate penalty will be, will bomb them, will bomb them three times harder. It's like, dude, have you learned nothing from the last four months?

[Nicole Wallace]

There's something that needs to be said about the cash. There's something that needs to be said. Trump, the reason Obama sent pallets of cash, which he did, was because Iran was cut off from the world banking system. So the only way you could get money to them was by physical cash. One of the things that Trump has done with this deal is dropped banking sanctions against Iran. So he's not sending cash because he doesn't need to, because he's let them back into the world banking system as he's dropping other kinds of sanctions, even if they never get the $300 billion it's supposed to happen after 60 days. The fact is he's dropped American sanctions because as they're getting the money upfront once again, they're getting at this time in bank transfers because they're back in the banking system. That's a huge win for them.

I want to read something else that's come out today because I think it, I don't know that anything explains Trump, but I think it's an incredible window into Trump. The new Haberman swan book which we've been talking about here, that embargo is lifted. We have it here. And I want to read a section of this to guys. This is about how Trump sees himself not as benevolent, not as being on the right side, but of just being the person with brute strength. This is from the epilogue. And the reporters are interviewing Donald Trump and he has his assistant bring him a document. He thinks it's from historian, but in reading the passage it sounds like it's from they describe him as an acolyte. It sounds like someone in his golf world. And the document says this or the book excerpt says this. Trump gestured for Harp, his assistant, to bring us the journalists copies of the two page document. Trump began reading from it, reciting the names of some of history's most powerful figures, explaining how each fell short of his own power as US President. Alexander the Great, the Caesars, William the Conqueror, quote, they didn't have airplanes.

Right.

You couldn't travel around. That's what Trump said about, about Alexander. I'll keep going. Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Tamerlane, Napoleon, he said with relish. Hitler, Mao and Stalin, these leaders maintain power through fear, he said. Who would ever do a thing like that, right? Trump lingered on the document central argument that each leader, however fearsome in his day, had no global reach. Their power was local, but his was not. It is a lot of things that I think over the coming days as people make their way through this new body of reporting, they'll have all sorts of observations. But Angelo, it has to be another just data point, if you will, that he's not viewing himself the way we cover him. Right alongside other American presidents at times of war, alongside Obama and the Iran deal, he views himself in league with Hitler, Mao and Stalin.

[Angelo Carusone]

Yeah, and he's all over the place, but he's never really had a central core policy and that's been long observed in his politics. He's all over the place there. But I've studied Trump a long time. And there are a few things that are consistent and one of them is his adherence or fidelity to the notion of might makes right. He's long believed that. And this is a tie in there because that's how we view those figures, is that they had power, they flex muscle, they were able to impose their will. That means they're right automatically. And then the other part that sort of struck me here is this sort of, this part of this larger mythology he is self mythologizing. That's what these memorial, that's what these, all these buildings are about, the gilding, the new ark. It is part of this larger story that he is telling himself of what he is and he's building that mythology. He's sort of basically high on his own supply now. You know, he's gotten those sort of whiff of QAnon that he's the singular figure that can fix it all and trust the plan. And that does give him some steadiness in some ways or at least the ability to ignore what are typically the rules of politics as John has noted in the past is like, you know, he doesn't really care about the day to day ebbs and flows of politics. He cares about personal grievance because that fits into the might makes right side of it. But he doesn't have to be as tethered to those individual roles because for him he's playing at a different level. He is in a different field and arena and he's playing by a different set of rules. And I think it's important for all of us to think about that and to internalize it because that is really what's guiding him. Might makes right and this self mythology.

[Nicole Wallace]

Angelo, thank you so much for joining us to start off. David Fromm, thank you for joining us to start off the hour. John will be back with us in a few minutes. When we come back, from Iranian missiles to regime change, even whether Iran can have a nuclear weapon team, Trump cannot move the goalposts quickly enough when it comes to its much criticized deal with Iran. The former principal deputy director of national intelligence and friend of the show, Sue Gordon is our next guest on all of that. Plus, the downward spiral in Donald Trump's political standing shows no signs of slowing or stopping today. Brand new polling shows that Americans really, really, really do not like Trump's handling of the economy. Economy as Americans continue to feel the pain from rising costs. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

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[John Heilman]

Iran possesses a very large number of ballistic missiles, particularly short range ballistic missiles that threaten the

[Nicole Wallace]

United States and our bases in the

[John Heilman]

region and our partners in the region. This operation is a clear, devastating, decisive mission. Destroy the missile threat, destroy the navy. No nukes.

[Angelo Carusone]

The objective of this mission is the destruction of their ballistic missile capabilities and of their naval capabilities.

[Nicole Wallace]

It was one of the only mildly consistent things that anybody said about the war with Iran. And it was described as you heard there, as an absolute must from the Trump cabinet. Destroy all of Iran's missiles. So now the deal has been reached, that must mean we got all the missiles right?

[John Heilman]

Other countries have them.

[Nicole Wallace]

It's a little bit unfair for them not to have some.

[John Heilman]

Their ability to launch missiles has been some substantially degraded.

[Nicole Wallace]

Is it zero?

[Cornell Belcher]

No, but it's substantially degraded.

[Nicole Wallace]

And in that sense we haven't abandoned the mission.

We've accomplished that particular part of the mission. It's just one little slice to show you pretty easily and quickly and simply the Trump administration's sort of signature move here. Their hallmark of saying one thing at one time and then doing the opposite of moving the goalposts when things don't go their way. This concession though in Iran's missiles is just one of many in the so called peace deal with Iran to take us through where things stand. I want to bring in former principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence, our good friend Sue Gordon. Thank you for being here today. Hey, Nicole, how are you doing?

[Sue Gordon]

I'm great. I'm well, I don't, you know, are any of us great in a world where it's hard to know what to believe, where I think we've decidedly made the world more dangerous and it's not clear what we accomplished despite spending lots of money to create havoc in the Middle East. But other than that, it's a great day.

[Nicole Wallace]

Well. And the lives of 13Americans that have been lost.

[Sue Gordon]

13Americans.

[Nicole Wallace]

Go ahead.

[Sue Gordon]

Loss of trust of our allies and partners. I mean, listen, no one should be confused just because people said hi to the President at G7. The loss of standing, the loss of reliability of the United States as a partner. And that impact, not just with Iran. And we can talk about, does Iran believe anything we say? Does it feel beholden to keep their word because we have not seemed to be able to keep ours? And then going outward to the people we really care about. Allies. And I think one of the most profound, damaging aspects of this has been our standing as a consistent force for sovereignty, for not the big guy beating up on the little guy, for having our word mean something. And I just think it is a. I'm glad we've reached some sort of cease fire because I don't want our women and men in harm's way. But we should be pretty clear that if things have happened here, they have not happened to make the world safer or the US More trusted over the course of this.

[Nicole Wallace]

What is your sense of what we have agreed to? I mean, the conservative press that is usually cheerleading. Donald Trump is disorientingly disgusted with the deal. Trump himself, never a hostage of hypocrisy the way normal humans are, because he has no capacity for shame, doesn't seem to have any issue with doing what he criticized Obama for in the releasing of Iranian assets. The Strait of Hormuz seems to have been what motivated Trump to come to the table. But it was open before, so that's not in a better place. I mean, what is your sense of what America gained from this war?

[Sue Gordon]

Let's see. So Iran is physically decidedly worse off. Well, I will say the bombing campaign didn't create a good secure ending. It certainly damaged a regime that has been affecting malign influence over the region for a lot of years. So Iran is weaker in terms of their capabilities. But let's even talk about that. We have created scarcity within the Iranian nation. So those people who may have wanted to uprise before are unlikely to be able to, because scarcity helps authoritarian regimes. Right? They don't have all the power they had, they don't have all the services, they don't have the buildings they had. I mean, and this is a heyday for a authoritarian regime to say we are going to have to control you because we're in tough shape. So we've actually diminished one of the great moments that I think we had, which was Iranian people that were ready to do something and we in fact have set that movement back. So we've, we've done that. We haven't improved the nuclear security because this isn't an agreement. This is a agreement to stop fighting for a period of days, to come back to the table and to talk about what we're going to do. The agreement the Obama administration had on JCPOA was much narrower than President Trump talks about, but it had real teeth. And Iran might have gotten money in the course of it, but they got money as they achieved some milestones. I have no idea who's going to verify anything if we can come to it. We don't even know what's been agreed to in terms of actual limits or who's going to verify it or when we're going to release money. All we know is that they're going to come back to talk to about it. And then I think the last thing is we have, oddly, unbelievably, in the course of the way we've conducted this, created legitimacy for Iran as a nation.

[Cornell Belcher]

Right?

[Sue Gordon]

We've shown them that they have economic leverage. We've negotiated in the opening, in the open with them. Our president has signed documents, not with the president of another nation. We have given them standing that they didn't have before. And then when you get to just incomprehensible statements like it would be unfair for Iran not to have ballistic missiles in the Wayback Machine, that was one of the big criticisms of the jcpoa. It was too narrowly focused on nuclear and the money that Iran got was used for their conventional programs. Now we have this president saying, yeah, you know, it's only fair if they're able to use those things. The world is not better off, the US Isn't better off. And Iran, though it is damaged, is in weirdly a stronger position than it was before. So I don't know how to tell the American people what their billions of dollars and their daughters and son lives accomplished. I will hope that somehow magically career diplomats get in the fray and we come up with something that is verifiable. But we are a long way from that.

[Nicole Wallace]

We are a long way from that. Feels like the title of your next book. Sue Gordon, thank you so much for it all. Feels very gaslighty, so you bring immense clarity. Thank you so much.

[Sue Gordon]

It is gaslighting. Don't. Yeah, you keep doing it because people need to hear the truth. Go get them. Nicole.

[Nicole Wallace]

Thank you my friend. Thank you for your time today. Coming up for us, how Donald Trump killed summer vacation for many, many Americans and is paying a steep political price for doing so. We'll talk about some devastating new economic polls for Donald Trump next.

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Rather than possibly going into a depression, rather than having your favorite president be Herbert Hoover, I was always the one I didn't want to be. I didn't want to see economic catastrophe. If you kept this going, that could have happened. But all I know is every time we talked about the possibility of peace, the stock market shot up like a rocket ship.

[John Heilman]

It never went down.

[Nicole Wallace]

They didn't like it. The people. You know, the stock market is more brilliant than anybody there is, including the people on this stage other than me, of course. That is the person who represents all of us Americans on the world stage. That was Donald Trump on the world stage yesterday, rambling, insulting his own cabinet, praising the stock market, confessing that his foreign policy is driven by the stock market's reaction to it, and importantly for this conversation, admitting that more than anything else, he does not want to go down as Herbert Hoover or a president whose war caused an economic calamity. Fear that he said he told us, pushed him to reach a deal to finally end his wildly unpopular war with Iran without any geopolitical or strategic gains for the United States of America. But four months into that war, there's a devastating new poll out today that shows Donald Trump's economic approval rating has hit a remarkable new low, with a large majority of the country dissatisfied with him. On the economy, one third of Americans say they approve of how Trump is handling the economy. That's lower than his predecessor, President Joe Biden, was at any point. That's lower than Donald Trump was at any point in his first term, including the COVID pandemic. Overall, just 36% of Americans approve of how Donald Trump is handling his job as president. I want to bring in Democratic pollster and political analyst Cornell Belcher. John Halman is back with us. Cornell, I'm running out of the will to ask insightful questions. I mean, what, wtf? I mean, I don't even know what to say about what Donald Trump says anymore about not wanting to be Herbert H. Revealing that the stock market is stronger than his cabinet, in his view, maybe that's why he asked another world leader about going to war with Iran. But the truth is found. Anytime you go shopping for anything, whether you do like your family's big, you know, fill the fridge shopping or whether you run in to get something you forgot for dinner, everything is a whole lot more expensive. And even if gas prices come down, you've been paying so much more for, for so many months now, people are already changing their summer plans. What does the pro democracy side, the Democratic Party, do with that?

[Cornell Belcher]

Well, first, Nicole, don't you often wonder during those press conferences? I always find myself watching Secretary Rubio. And then you always say Rubio's, what's going on in Rubio's mind during these ramblings? And he just, to me, it's hilarious. But picking up on that topic about the peace plan and that conversation interview just had, devastating interview just had laying out how problematic this war is. In that Fox poll, we have 64% of Americans who disapprove of the war. So it's not really the one thing. It is the tie. It is the economic. But it's also these other, all these other things that are just weighing it down. And I think it really becomes he's being stripped bare because now it's not just independence. Look, you know, 64% of independence is you have the vast majority of independence group. But what I think is remarkable in the new polling that out over the last couple days, Nicole, is, look, Trump won non College White Group by bedroom 34 he won rural voters by Bedford. His job on the economy is now underwater with both of those that the voter.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah.

[Cornell Belcher]

And he just barely broke a head in 2024among suburban voters. And 60 some percent of suburban voters now disapprove of the job that the president's doing. So it is not just cracking, but it's crumbling around it.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. I mean, Halman I too wonder what Rubio, who got in a fight with Donald Trump about the size of his hands, is thinking when he stands there. But I think it has a whole lot to do with measuring the drapes in the Oval Office. But what do you

[John Heilman]

think he's thinking, Nicole? He's thinking, Nicole. I think he's thinking, Nicole, about whether he could top his own rhetoric earlier this week when he compared the UFC to America landing on the moon under John F. Kennedy. I think that's, he's kind of trying to think up the next great rhetorical flourish that will guarantee him the spot in the world.

[Nicole Wallace]

Who needs USAID when you've got the UFC insulting former first lady.

[John Heilman]

He's also sitting there thinking, thank God I'm not. J.D. vance My God, just praise the Lord that I can stand back here quietly in the back and look like I'm on ebo gain like one of those very heavily dissociative hallucinogens that people take and they don't move for hours where they're like stuck in one place like a tree trunk. That's, you know, I think he's just basically saying, you know, at least they're not fitting me for cement shoes like they are. JD VANCE

[Nicole Wallace]

and what about the economy? HIGHLAND

[John Heilman]

well, I just want to talk about Hoover a little bit because why not? You know, I mean, first of all, what president wants to be like Herbert Hoover? Not none that I've ever heard of before. I think Hoover's got to be on Trump's mind, though, because he knows that as soon as his presidency ends, the discussion of who is the worst president in American history will begin. And as of now, I would say there's kind of a consensus. Hoover, you know, is right at the bottom of everybody's list. And there will be a long going debate that will, you know, probably for the rest of Donald Trump's years on planet Earth and long beyond, there'll be a question about who is worse for America, Herbert Hoover or Donald Trump. And so he's clearly already playing that competition out in his mind. NICOLE I think that's, that's, you know, as always, Trump confession Or projection. One or the other. Always. In this case, I think a little bit of both.

[Nicole Wallace]

Totally. Oh, I want to be part of those conversations, though, because I think the guy that brought back the measles, that destroyed usaid, that destroyed America's standing on the world, that destroyed America's economy, that destroyed the Justice Department, the military, and the FBI, like, in one week beats Herbert Hoover running away. All right, no one's going anywhere. We can pick up that debate on the other side, or we can show you what Democratic Senator John Ossoff had to say when he responded to the pretty lame nickname that Donald Trump gave him. We'll show you that on the other side. Don't go anywhere.

[Sue Gordon]

He called you a failed Democrat and

[John Heilman]

then has a new nickname for you. He called you us Jerk off.

[Sue Gordon]

Your response to that?

[John Heilman]

He is a disgrace President humiliated on the world stage by his failed war, raking in billions for himself and his family while he makes you pay more for gas, for groceries, and for health care. And if you want to help me defeat his Trump puppet opponent, it's electjohn.com

[Nicole Wallace]

we're back with Cornell and John Cornel. My expectations are so low that I was just impressed. He didn't take the bait on jerk off. But the whole frame around which our politics is viewed, and this was so clear after watching the Obamas today, is so in need of politicians like Ossoff. I mean, that this is what Trump does, is sit around trying to think of lame nicknames for people that he finds truly threatening. Is now, as Heilman just said, both a projection and a confession.

[Cornell Belcher]

Nicole, as campaign hacks, can we just for a moment, just sit back? Oh, magnificent John Ossoff as a campaigner, like, he was like, he's really good. Exactly how you want to ask. He didn't take the bait. He was 110% right on message. Even dropping in where you could donate to his campaign at the end, I mean, that is. That is excellent.

[Nicole Wallace]

He's very, very good. Yeah,

[Cornell Belcher]

he's among the best I've seen. But it's like the scene from where father was talking to the kids and he was saying, you know, you're just not serious people. And at some point, it is like the President of the United States and his patent people around him, Nicole, they're just not serious people. And when you look at the hang right and all the polling data right now, where most Americans think things are heading up by a lot and they struggling with getting ahead and they're pessimistic about the future, of America, how they have been in our lifetime. And you have this kind of foolishness going on and it's just a humongous disconnect from the seriousness and the leadership at the moment needs and deserves right now.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, I mean, there's also something going on in Georgia. I mean, I had Senator Warnock on yesterday and he's extraordinary as well. Senator Ossoff is very quickly has this national profile as well. And there has to be a piece. I mean, I'm not through the Haberman swan book yet, but there is such a piece of desperation that they're reporting captures. I mean, like these little folded up memos of letters people wrote him saying, you're so great, you're so powerful. The pictures of the Gold Ballroom, the pictures of the. I still don't understand. Someone's going to have to explain to me why the length of the reflecting pool, which is now green and covered with algae blooms, is on a piece of paper with tall buildings. I don't even understand that one. But it's something about Trump's obsession with size and the length of things shaped that way. I mean, he's so obviously being pandered to by a staff that views him as a petulant child. And so they're just helping him build himself up with graphical things to show the press when people can't afford all the groceries they want, they can't buy all the stuff they want, they can't take the trips they want with their family this summer. I mean, it's such a disconnect. Forget about your politics, forget about which party you prefer in normal times. He doesn't care about your pain. He doesn't care about your problems. He doesn't care about your anxieties, doesn't care about your future. He doesn't care about your kids.

[John Heilman]

Man, there's so many ways to go with this topic, Nicole. And I'll tell you, I was in Washington this week and when I was told about the algae blooms, I decided I would after I'd taken in the claw over the White House at dusk, the inspiring scene of that. I went down to the reflecting pool. I, I was, I took, I took my malaria pills before I went down there and went down like, you know, mosquito netting. Fair. Fairly, fairly soon, fairly soon they're going to be like alligators and crocodiles and like, you know, hippopotamuses are going to be. Because that whole that's, that swamp situation is so bad. And it's such a great metaphor for the whole Trump administration because it's like totally having this, having this crazy E Day fix where we're going to do this thing, number one. Number two, doing it really, just because I got a pool guy that I got to write it. I want to write him a contract for a few million dollars. Dismissing any expert who said, you know, the blue is going to absorb more heat, the blue is going to absorb more heat, and the. And there's going to be an environmental problem which is going to lead to this algae bloom. He was told that, you know, people were like, this could be a problem. He didn't listen to them. And then just the stunning kind of amateur hour incompetence of everything which you see in the Iran war and everything else. I find it, like, really kind of compelling. But the other thing about the, about the Swan Haberman book, just to say, and I don't want to take the, that I want to make sure we just hover on the nicknames for a moment. Little Marco, Low Energy, Jeb, Lion, Ted. Those were good nicknames. I think that, I think these new nicknames, Marjorie Taylor Brown, that you had to kind of explain it. Democrats. And now the Third Strike. John Os, Jerk Off. There is no clearer sign of Trump's cognitive decline than the decline in the quality of his nicknames. These are just bad nicknames, man. It's time to hang it up.

[Nicole Wallace]

He has lost his nickname game. This is so true. This might be the most astute political observation of the week. Hellman, thank you for that. Cornell. Thank you for your time and for joining us today. One more break. We'll be right back. My guest on this week's episode of the Best People podcast is journalist Don Lemon. He was charged in January by Donald Trump's Justice Department for covering a protest inside a Minnesota church amid the uproar over ICE's presence in Minneapolis and the killings of Alex Preddy and Renee Nicole Goode. We talked about that. We talked about the future of the press and Donald Trump in decline. Don is brilliant and funny and you won't want to miss the conversation. Just scan the QR code on your screen to listen or download it. Wherever you get your podcast, be sure to let me know what you think on Blue sky or Instagram. That does it for us tonight. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes. We are grateful. You know what's worse than a long wait? Flipping through old magazines in a waiting room.

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