Deadline: White House – “A Watershed Moment”
Date: September 25, 2025
Host: Alicia Menendez (sitting in for Nicolle Wallace)
Guests: Ken Dilanian, Tyler Pager, Liz Oyer, Sen. Maria Cantwell, Claire McCaskill, Oliver Darcy
Main Themes: The accelerating politicization of the Justice Department under President Trump, the looming indictment against James Comey, political retribution, the crackdown on dissent and media, and mounting cultural and political backlash.
Overview
This episode explores what Alicia Menendez repeatedly calls a “watershed moment” for American democracy: President Trump's campaign to use the Justice Department to pursue indictments against political enemies, most immediately former FBI Director James Comey. The conversation digs into the mechanics, risks, and unprecedented nature of these moves—both within the legal system and across the political landscape. As the discussion widens, attention turns to further efforts to silence critics, notably in the media, and the resulting cultural blowback.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Indictment Against James Comey: Political Prosecution in Real Time
[01:07–04:17]
- Alicia Menendez frames the episode by highlighting the impending indictment of James Comey and Trump's denials about involvement, set alongside credible reports of persistent pressure on DOJ officials to bring charges.
- Trump’s statements (declarations that Comey is a “bad person” and “sick person”) set a hostile tone for the DOJ’s actions.
- Reporting from the Wall Street Journal and MSNBC reveals DOJ line prosecutors have objected on evidentiary and ethical grounds, but Trump-aligned U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan intends to proceed.
- The supposed crime centers on conflicting congressional testimony by Comey and McCabe regarding leaking information.
Quote:
“There is simply no there, there.” – Alicia Menendez, referencing DOJ line prosecutors’ doubts (04:03)
2. The Collapse of DOJ Independence
[05:08–09:34]
- Ken Dilanian likens the Trump DOJ approach to Stalinist Russia: “Find me the man and I’ll show you the crime.”
- The Comey/McCabe leak controversy has been exhaustively investigated with no previous charges; bringing it now, with the statute of limitations looming, is seen as nakedly political.
- DOJ standards require “a prosecutor should believe they could win a conviction” to indict, not just have probable cause.
Quote:
“The idea of a president ordering his Justice Department to charge his political enemies, whether they think there’s evidence or not— that is a very dangerous place we’re in as a country right now.” – Ken Dilanian [07:14]
- Liz Oyer describes career DOJ personnel as caught between duty to the law and loyalty to leadership:
“People in the Justice Department now are in a very hard situation ... I hope that they choose to lead with integrity and not to let their principles and duties be compromised to achieve a political objective.” [08:30]
- Tyler Pager reminds the audience that Trump campaigned on the promise to “be your retribution”—now manifest in overt White House interference.
3. Pam Bondi and DOJ Leadership: Loyalty and Retaliation
[11:16–13:27]
- Ken Dilanian clarifies that DOJ leadership (Pam Bondi, Todd Blanche) are aware of the legal risks but prioritize Trump loyalty—mirroring the political “purge” of less compliant officials, e.g., Eric Siebert, who was forced out for refusing spurious prosecutions.
- Bondi has told DOJ staff “we all work for Donald Trump,” underscoring the collapse of DOJ independence.
Quote:
“She believes this is an army of lawyers that amount to Donald Trump’s personal law firm.” – Liz Oyer on Pam Bondi [13:27]
4. Grand Jury Mechanics and the Limits of Resistance
[14:07–15:34]
- Could the grand jury stop a weak Comey case? Ken Dilanian notes it’s rare, but not impossible. Grand juries sometimes reject overtly political prosecutions, but the process is stacked in the prosecutor’s favor.
- Even a “no true bill” would represent a dramatic, public rebuke to Trump’s DOJ.
5. Republican Response: Complicity and Concerns
[16:19–17:46]
- Tyler Pager’s reporting shows Republicans divided—some endorse Trump’s actions, reframing them as retribution for supposed Biden DOJ overreach, but others are “deeply concerned about the politicization of the Justice Department.”
- Polling: 54% (including 30% of Republicans) think it’s unacceptable for a president to direct the DOJ to investigate political rivals.
Quote:
“He promised to do this very thing when he was running for president.” – Tyler Pager [16:27]
6. The Pattern of Political Prosecutions
[17:46–20:20]
- The Comey case is not isolated: similar probes are targeting Letitia James, Adam Schiff, John Brennan, John Bolton, Chris Krebs, Miles Taylor, even President Obama.
- Ken Dilanian: Claims of equivalence to the Biden administration are “the big lie”—no evidence of political interference in Biden-era DOJ investigations.
Quote:
“The idea that there’s any equivalence ... is the big lie.” – Ken Dilanian [19:15]
Expanding the Crackdown: DOJ Targets Soros Groups
[22:47–25:58]
- Liz Oyer and Tyler Pager discuss reporting that DOJ leadership is now ordering investigations into groups funded by George Soros—expanding the reach of political retribution.
- The intent is to find “any” charge, possibly via tax exemption revocation or even RICO statutes. Oyer calls the approach “chilling,” noting this is a direct reversal of established DOJ procedure and an attack on the rule of law.
Quote:
“The justice system ... is not a toy. It is not a tool of revenge ... But that is how Donald Trump is using it.” – Liz Oyer [23:17]
Media & Cultural Backlash: The Jimmy Kimmel Saga
[30:24–46:22]
- Widespread preemption of Jimmy Kimmel Live! on more than two dozen ABC affiliates (including in major markets like Seattle) is linked to Trump-aligned FCC pressure.
- Senator Maria Cantwell calls out improper political threats and vows to hold FCC leadership accountable.
- The decision to pull Kimmel has generated broad public interest, with even some Republicans (like Ted Cruz) speaking out against censorship.
Quote:
“How come I can’t watch Kimmel? ... Is this going to happen to everybody that people don’t like his free speech?” – Sen. Maria Cantwell [34:09]
- The entertainment industry, including Disney and Kimmel himself, respond with open defiance and further political satire.
- Oliver Darcy explains that Disney is waiting for Sinclair and Nexstar to “come back to the table,” underscoring the contractual and financial consequences.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “Find me the man and I’ll show you the crime.”
— Ken Dilanian likening DOJ conduct to Stalinist Russia. [06:15] - “This Justice Department has no independence from the President.”
— Liz Oyer, on the state of DOJ under Bondi and Trump. [13:27] - “They are going after Donald Trump’s political enemies using the tools of government.”
— Ken Dilanian, on the broader campaign of political prosecutions. [19:05] - “The idea that the White House and the Justice Department would have this wall between them ... has just fallen completely.”
— Tyler Pager, on the eroded norms post-Watergate. [10:47] - “It is not a toy. It is not a tool of revenge.”
— Liz Oyer, on the Justice Department’s role. [23:17] - “We don’t want an FCC that is going to do the bidding of the President and push content off the air just because he’s mad about it.”
— Sen. Maria Cantwell [33:13] - “All that stuff’s really, really important. But this [Kimmel] is something that really touched people...especially people who don’t do politics.”
— Claire McCaskill, on the resonance of the media crackdown. [41:36]
Important Segment Timestamps
- [01:07–05:08] – Laying out the Comey indictment; Trump’s role; legal context
- [05:08–07:30] – DOJ pushback, legal standards, Stalinist parallel
- [07:30–10:11] – DOJ ethics, risk to career prosecutors, precedent
- [14:07–15:34] – Grand jury process, possibility of “no true bill”
- [16:19–20:20] – Divisions in the GOP, poll numbers, historic context
- [22:47–25:58] – DOJ targeting Soros groups; expansion of retribution
- [30:24–37:11] – Jimmy Kimmel preemption; FCC controversy; Sen. Cantwell interview
- [39:36–46:22] – Kimmel’s monologue; Disney’s role; media/advertiser pressures; cultural/political symbolism
Conclusion
This episode paints a stark, detailed picture of American institutions under stress: long-standing norms around prosecutorial and media independence are under siege, replaced by loyalty demands and political vendettas. The Comey prosecution is framed not only as a test of the Justice Department but as a warning sign for the erosion of democracy. The ripple effects—crackdowns on prominent media figures and the eruption of public and industry backlash—suggest that “watershed” is no exaggeration. The cross-section of legal, political, and cultural voices all echo the same alarm: America is at a dangerous and unprecedented precipice.
For Listeners Who Missed the Episode:
This summary captures both the factual events under discussion and the episode’s palpable urgency. It exposes the intricacies of DOJ manipulation, the embattled state of independent American institutions, and the mounting public demand for accountability and transparency.