← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"A welcome dose of facts"
00:41:29
Nicolle Wallace on former special counsel Jack Smith testifying on Capitol Hill behind closed doors.
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Nicole Wallace
Situations make this the year you took their breath away only with Goldbelly. The year you surprised them with the lobster rolls from their main honeymoon. The year the grandkids tried the black and white cookies that defined your brother and childhood. The year they got to stay up late eating the cotton candy cake you sent. The year they learned that true Texas barbecue really is that much better. Because with 20% off your first Goldbelly.com order, sending core memories nationwide has never been easier. Use promo code gift and make this year one to remember. Hi there everyone. It's four o'clock in New York. In the midst of a steady drumbeat of news of Donald Trump's retribution campaign continuing to target his political opponents and anyone and everyone who has ever sought to hold him accountable, comes something different. A welcome dose of reality, courage, facts and fealty to the rule of law from the prosecutor who brought two of the most significant cases against Donald Trump happening right now. Former special counsel Jack Smith is testifying on Capitol Hill behind closed doors. He had asked to do this publicly, but was rejected by the Republican chair of the House Judiciary Committee, Jim Jordan, who said, no, you can't answer these questions in public. But then he proceeded to subpoena Jack Smith so he could testify today in secret. That means this may be as close as the public gets to an accounting of the two investigations run by Jack Smith, both the federal investigation into Donald Trump's efforts to overturn his 2020 election defeat, as well as the classified documents case. Our Capitol Hill team obtained excerpts of Jack Smith's testimony. He told the committee this quote, I was taught as a young professor to follow the facts and the law and to do so without fear or favorite to do the right thing, the right way for the right reasons. For nearly three decades, I have been a career prosecutor. I've served during Republican and Democratic administrations, and I have been guided by these principles in every role I have held. If asked whether to prosecute a former president based on the same facts today, I would do so regardless of whether the president was a Republican or a Democrat Jack Smith also defended both of the cases he brought against Donald Trump, the cases that now form a lot of the terrain in Donald Trump's twisted mind for his retribution campaign. More from his testimony, quote, our investigation developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that President Trump engaged in a criminal scheme to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election and to prevent the lawful transfer of power. Our investigation also developed powerful evidence that showed President Trump willfully retained highly classified documents after he left office in January 2021, storing them at his social club, including in a bathroom and a ballroom where events and gatherings took place. He then repeatedly tried to obstruct justice to conceal his continued retention of those documents. The decision to bring charges against President Trump was mine, but the basis for those charges rests entirely with President Trump and his actions. Now, while we did not hear any of those words from Jack Smith ourselves today, we have heard from people across the ideological spectrum. You've heard them testify to the strength of those cases that Jack Smith brought against Donald Trump. Those voices corroborate a lot of what Jack Smith said today behind closed doors, and they even include Donald Trump's former Attorney General, Bill Barr.
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Michael Feinberg
You have to remember, a conspiracy crime is completed at the time it's agreed to and the first steps are taken.
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Carol Lennig
That's it.
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Michael Feinberg
That's when the crime is complete. From a prosecutor's standpoint, I think it's a legitimate case.
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Nicole Wallace
That's where we start today with Democratic Congresswoman Zoe Loughlin of California. She was a member of the House select committee investigating January 6th. She sits on the House Judiciary Committee. Congresswoman, thank you for being here.
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Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren
Of course.
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Nicole Wallace
Tell me what you heard from Jack Smith today.
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Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren
Well, I've spent most of today in the committee room with the depositions. The members of the committee are asked not to reveal the testimony. I will say this, that I believe the entire transcript will be released at some point. I'll just say this. You know, it is a shame that this testimony is going on in secret. There's no reason for it. And in the past, when special prosecutors have finished their cases and written up their reports, they always come to the Judiciary Committee in a public session, and not only the committee members, but the public gets to find out what went on. I'll just say this. If you want to know what Jack Smith was able to prove, just go back to the January 6th committee report and read the report or even the executive summary. And that's what he was prepared to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, with a lot of evidence. I'll say this you know, the Judge Cannon in Florida has enjoined the release of volume two of his report, which relates to the classified document case. And consequently, he did not go into anything in volume two because he's prohibited from doing so by Judge Cannon. And she's got a deadline in January to release that. And we'll see what happens next.
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Nicole Wallace
Let me show you what your colleague, Congressman Jamie Raskin said about today's briefing.
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Jamie Raskin
I just want to say that Chairman Jordan made an excellent decision in not allowing Jack Smith to testify publicly, because had he done so, it would would have been absolutely devastating to the president and all the president's men involved in the insurrectionary activities of January 6th. So, you know, I can't get into any further particulars, but I'll just say that Jack Smith has just spent several hours schooling the Judiciary Committee on the professional responsibilities of a prosecutor and the ethical duties of a prosecutor. And he's a sensational and honorable public servant, and we are lucky to have him in the bar in the United States.
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Nicole Wallace
Can you agree or disagree with that description of what happened from Congressman Raskin?
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Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren
No, I completely agree. And subsequent to Jamie's statement there, we had another session where he went through the evidence relative to the criminal conspiracy that Trump was at the head of relative to overthrowing the government on January 6, and the evidence that he had that would have allowed him to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury that those crimes had been committed. So, yeah, no small wonder that Jim Jordan and the rest of those who are trying to pretend that Trump was not guilty of those crimes didn't want that to come out in public. Why they subpoenaed Mr. Smith at all to go through and rehash the guilt of President Trump about that illegal effort to overturn the Constitution is really a question. I wonder about what.
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Nicole Wallace
What in their telling or over on Earth 2, did they think they were doing today, the Republicans on the committee?
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Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren
I have no idea. I will say that I think their line of questioning has been unfocused and not very useful. I don't know what they're trying to prove honestly from their questions. And the few times they've made assertions, they just fell flat because the evidence doesn't support it. So it's pretty lame. And ultimately, as I say, I believe the transcript will be released and people will be able to make their own conclusions based on what they read. But it would have been compelling to see Mr. Smith. I did see him. But for the public to see his very composed, logical evidence, legal and fact, based conclusions as he led this important investigation into Mr. Trump's efforts to overturn the Constitution and our democracy.
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Nicole Wallace
Because it's been a minute, let me just refresh our viewers recollections of the specific evidence that Jack Smith had developed to prove his two cases against Donald Trump beyond a reasonable doubt, but specifically the January 6th insurrection case. This is from Jack Smith's indictment about lawmaker phone calls which were reported to have been of interest. The defendant, through White House aides, attempted to reach two US senators at 6pm from 6:59pm until 7:18pm, Coconspirator One placed calls to five US senators and one United States representative. In one of the calls, Coconspirator One left a voicemail intended for a US senator that said, we need you, our Republican friends, to try to just slow it down so we can get these legislatures to get more information to you. And I know they're reconvening at 8 tonight, but the only strategy we can follow is to object to numerous states and raise issues so that we get ourselves into tomorrow, ideally, the end of tomorrow. In another message intended for another US senator, co conspirator 1 repeatedly knowingly alleged false allegations of election fraud. Co conspirator 1 also claimed that the vice president's actions have been surprising and asked the senator to object to every state and kind of spread this out a little bit like a filibuster. What was the react? Was there any rebuttal of actual facts or was there a debate about prerogatives and immunity and protections?
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Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren
Not that I heard. And if you read volume one of his report, you know, he talks not just about what happened on January 6, but the events leading up to it, the fake elector scheme and the conspiracy that kept falling apart until finally at the end, there was only the violence and the effort to overturn through pressure and violence. You know, it's a remarkable thing that almost five years ago this happened. Some Americans may have forgotten about it. I certainly have not. But this is a good reminder that our democracy came perilously close to being overturned just five years ago. And given Trump's current lawless behavior in so many arenas, it's clear that we're not out of the woods yet.
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Nicole Wallace
Do you have any thoughts about the revelations in Susie Wiles own words that she opposed and tried to prevent Donald Trump from pardoning the most violent insurrectionists on January 6th? She lost, but she hums along. She rallied support after those 11 interviews that she gave on the record to journalist and author Chris Whipple were published. And even Someone who opposed pardoning people who physically beat up cops, members of law enforcement, Capitol police continues to work for someone like Donald Trump. How does that sit with you?
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Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren
Well, I don't know her, but he pardoned all of the violent criminals convicted. Over a thousand, including the people who murdered Officer Brian Sicknick. Many of the people that he pardoned have gone on to commit other crimes, including sexual abuse of children, assault, robbery, murder. So he has unleashed this group of violent felons onto America, where they're continuing to menace American citizens because these are violent thugs and they should never have been pardoned.
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Nicole Wallace
If the Democrats take back control of the House, is there an opportunity for a public hearing into the evidence that was gathered in these two investigations?
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Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren
Well, there's always an opportunity. We'll have to see what is the most important thing on our agenda. Obviously, we did that in the January 6 committee. The results of our investigation are still available to the public. We were careful to post not only the written report, but the video evidence in repositories all over the United States so that a Trump administration could not sit on them and suppress them. Whether we want to redo that or whether we want to move on to other issues, for example, the affordability crisis, that's smack gobbing the American people. Probably the latter.
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Nicole Wallace
Congresswoman, just remind us if there were things that Jack Smith developed, improved, as he said, quote, beyond a reasonable doubt that the committee didn't have access to.
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Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren
Well, there were some people who wouldn't talk to us, and they did talk to the Department of Justice. I think that's been made clear in the public statements that, for example, the vice President spoke, but it was in a grand jury proceeding, so he couldn't discuss it. Mark Meadows refused to talk to the committee, but he did talk to the DOJ and some others. So, yes, the committee wasn't able to compel all the testimony, but we certainly had enough to reach the conclusions that we did. And Jack Smith's investigation only reinforced what we were able to discover.
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Nicole Wallace
Congressman Zolofkin, thank you so much for being here to talk to us about all this. Again today, I want to bring in former acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department of Justice, Mary McCord. Mary, you know Jack Smith, but most of the public does not, and we haven't seen or heard from him very often. So I want to just put up a little bit of his. I think it's his only interview he's done so far, and it's with our friend Andrew Weissman.
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Michael Feinberg
The Robert Mueller view of how to do this. That's where I come from. That's my view. And that's really how the Department of Justice does it. I've seen throughout my career. And there's a reason for it. The reason is you do not want to be saying things before trial that are going to make it hard for the defendant to get a fair trial. Right. I think that it is worth a conversation going forward about how we move things and how we handle things and how we think about these things. Now, I'm not arguing in favor of a sort of wholesale, you know, one side blasts something out on social media and then the other side does and we do that, that sort of thing. But I do think we need to think about it differently because we're in a different age now and communicate with each other differently.
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Nicole Wallace
I heard that and I took it one way when the interview happened. I heard it differently after reading about, reading his prepared statement in front of the committee. And I wonder if you think Jack Smith is the kind of person who thinks that because the evidence he developed was intended for a trial and that only because of the extraordinary, unprecedented and historic moves of the Supreme Court reaching into that ongoing process, if you think that, that he would ever try to make public what he shared with the Judiciary Committee today.
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Mary McCord
I mean, I think there's no question he's the one who, I think you indicated at the top of the hour who originally said, I will come and talk to you about this, and this should be a public hearing, and I want it to be a public hearing. And, you know, Chair Jim Jordan, rather than saying, okay, let's make this public. And as Z. Lofgren said, you know, other special counsels have participated in public hearings after their. They've completed their investigations, including people like Robert her right. Who investigated President Joe Biden while he was a sitting president. I think that, you know, that is what he wanted. And instead, Jim Jordan subpoenaed him. And if he'd have failed to come to that subpoena for a closed hearing, you can, I can bet dollars to donuts that the committee majority would have made a referral to the Department of Justice for a prosecution for failing to, you know, comply with the subpoena. So he was kind of put in between a rock and a hard place in terms of having to do this in a closed proceeding. But he wrote these reports so there would be public accountability. And, you know, the, the report of the January 6th investigation is available. We've all been able to read it and assess the evidence for ourselves but, but volume two, that has to do with the Mar a Lago case. Not just the mishandling of national defense information, classified documents stored all over in odd places of Mar a Lago, a place that is open to members of the public, including including foreign officials and others in countries that even are our adversaries. But it also included very significant obstruction of justice counts. This information should be made public, redacted for classified information that needs to be redacted to protect national security. But there's much there, particularly with respect to the obstruction counts that should be made public. And there has been pending for almost a year motions before Judge Cannon to release volume two or to allow the government to release volume two. And her original rationale was for not allowing the release is because the case was still pending against the two co defendants, Walt Nada and Carlos de Oliveira. Those, the appeals of the dismissal of those cases were dismissed by the Department of Justice way back in February. And that was the only basis for the this not being public. So even the 11th Circuit, when those who were seeking to make it public took a mandamus position petition up to the 11th Circuit, the 11th Circuit said in, I think November 3rd or November 4th, we're going to give, you know, the judge 60 days to rule on these motions that have been pending since February about making this public. And, you know, if she doesn't do that, that's coming up in early January, maybe the 11th Circuit will order them to be made public. And to your, to your key question, yes, this all should be available. It's part of accountability.
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Nicole Wallace
Will it be public? I mean, I think I tracked with the explanation about the cases that were pending against Walt Nada and Francisco de Oliveira. But it sounds like between Donald Trump and his control, command and control, the Justice Department and the ally that he seems to have in Judge Aileen Cannon, it seems less likely. Do you think it will ultimately be made public?
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Mary McCord
Well, you know, I think it depends on if she rules against disclosure, then the, you know, and it's not, it's not the government who's brought this request. It's too outside, not nonprofit organizations who are seeking, you know, to have it be made public. They could take that up to the 11th Circuit, just like they filed this petition for Irida Mandamus. That petition for Irida Mandamus. What that's doing is it's going to the Court of Appeals and saying the judge below has committed clear and indisputable error because she has sat on these pending motions for us to intervene and to require the disclosure of these documents required Department of Justice to disclose this report. She's sitting on this motion for months and months and months and months and months.
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Nicole Wallace
Months.
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Mary McCord
And the 11th Circuit said there has been undue delay. We're going to give her 60 more days. So if she doesn't act in that 60 days, the 11th Circuit could order it. And then, Nicole? Yes, I think, you know, the well, who knows this administration, maybe they'll go to the Supreme Court because that's what they like to do. But ultimately, I do think properly redacted to make sure that, you know, still sensitive and classified national security information is redacted and other maybe per, you know, certain other things about personal identifier information where it would not be fair to a person to have that in there might be redacted. But I have some confidence that this will ultimately be made public.
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Nicole Wallace
All right. Mary isn't going anywhere. On the other side of a break, we'll talk to one of the best journalists who's covered Jack Smith and the cases he brought against Donald Trump as well. Also ahead for US agents are counting down the days, according to some brand new reporting from Caroline again Delaney and of Ms. Now. And they won't have to wait much longer. The number two at the FBI, Dan Bongino, is quietly talking about his imminent departure from the FBI. And later in the broadcast, potential confrontation appears to be escalating between the United States and Venezuela. The very latest on that and much more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. Want the same expert advice from the pros at a discount tire store while shopping for tires online. Meet Treadwell, your personal tire guide. Treadwell is an online tire buying guide that gives you personalized recommendations. Shop for tires with Treadwell@discounttire.com at Capella University. Learning online doesn't mean learning alone. You'll get support from people who care about your success, like your enrollment specialist who gets to know you and the goals you'd like to achieve.
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Nicole Wallace
I want to bring into our coverage. Ms. Now senior investigative reporter Carol Lennig. Mary is still with us. Carol, it is not often that I get to say this, but it seems that on the larger strategic question of whether it was good or bad for Jack Smith to testify publicly, the Republicans knew that what Jack Smith would say would be very bad for Donald Trump, that he somehow couldn't present that evidence because it would hurt Trump. And that in and of itself feels like a big part of this story.
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Carol Lennig
I think you're absolutely right there, Nicole. And you know, from reporting behind the scenes, it's clear to me that Jack Smith was more than eager to get a public hearing where he could lay out the facts which he and his team view as devastating for Donald Trump, both on the effort to overturn and block a free and fair election result, which was the victory of Joe Biden, and in his effort to willfully retain national defense information and try to conceal it from the government after he'd been served with a very reasonable subpoena, asking him to return classified records. The evidence there, even that which is in open sources and public, as summarized by the prosecutor, would be pretty powerful and not something the Republicans wanted to see happen on an open stage.
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Nicole Wallace
How does Donald Trump pursue retribution against Jack Smith if his information is viewed as so credible that the Republicans didn't want it aired publicly?
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Carol Lennig
Well, credibility isn't really the coin of the realm right now with the White House or the Trump administration. In fact, sort of rewriting and recasting history is the most powerful way that Trump has found to tap into his base of supporters, to inflame potentially new supporters, but also MAGA influencers and conservative leaning influencers. And he has found that to be extremely successful. I mean, just take the example from yesterday, which is now being discussed a lot today. And that was what was clearly a coordinated effort by the FBI leadership in the form of Kash Patel, Grassley on the house, I'm sorry, on the hillside, to claim somehow that there was not probable cause to raid Donald Trump's home in Mar a Lago in August of 2022. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've looked at those documents, the partial ones that Kash Patel and the FBI and Grassley released, but also the others in which the FBI concluded, you know, for weeks that the probable cause was now absolutely overwhelming and a Federal judge signed a warrant concluding that the probable cause was justified for an unannounced surprise search at the former president's home.
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Nicole Wallace
Carol, let meanother. I think issue is the phone records. Let me read you Jack Smith in his own words on the phone records accessed by his investigation. Quote, toll records were lawfully subpoenaed and were relevant to complete a comprehensive investigation. January 6th was an attack on the structure of our democracy in which over 100 heroic law enforcement officers were assaulted. More than 160 individuals later pled guilty to assaulting police officers that day. Exploiting that violence, President Trump and his associates tried to call members of Congress in furtherance of their criminal scheme, urging them to further delay certification of the 2020 election. I didn't ch those members. President Trump did. What is the purpose, if the Supreme Court has given Trump immunity and if Jim Jordan in the majority can have this hearing behind closed doors, of continuing to keep this in the news? It seems that the more that Jack Smith is questioned, the more he has to prove why this was central, the more he incriminates the members who were aiding him in obstructing an official proceeding.
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Carol Lennig
You're getting right down to the nub there, Nicole, which, you know, I can't be inside the heart of Jim Jordan or Donald Trump, but I can tell you what sources of mine are concerned about who have worked on these investigations for a long time or been ancillary to them. And what they're concerned about is by forcing a private deposition, two things are going on for Republicans. Again, I emphasize this is the concern of people who were involved in these investigations. They also are not inside the heads and hearts of Donald Trump and Jim Jordan. But you ask the smart what could be the purpose? The concern is the purpose is to get Jack Smith to speak about something about which he's not authorized to speak by the Department of Justice, which gave him some vague guidance recently, or to trip up in some way and comment on 6e material that this could be essentially, as one source said, a trap set to have a justification to charge Jack Smith. It hasn't been too much of a stretch for Donald Trump's Justice Department to charge people with crimes despite evidence being, as career prosecutors found in those cases, slim to non existent.
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Nicole Wallace
It just seems like tripping up Jack Smith feels like a foolish undertaking. But I hear what you're saying. You could say the same of Jim Comey. And here we are. Carol, you have reporting on Dan Bongino. We're going to ask you to stick around to talk to us about that. Mary McCord, thank you for starting us off this hour after the break. As we said, we'll get to Carol's scoop today. The MAGA conspiracy pusher who went from the podcast booth to being the number two most powerful authoritative person at our country's premier law enforcement agency is reportedly talking about moving on. Bring you that story next.
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Jamie Raskin
I don't know what people think me and Cash are doing all day. I mean, I gave up everything for this. I mean, you know, my wife is struggling and I'm not a victim. I'm not Jim Comey. It's fine. I did this and I'm proud I did it. But if you think we're there for tea and crumpets, I mean, Cash is there all day. We share our offices are linked. He turns on the faucet. I hear it. He's there at he gets in like 6 o' clock in the morning. He doesn't leave till 7 at night. You know, I'm in there at 7:30 in the morning. You know, he uses the gym. I work out in my apartment, but I stare at these four walls all day in D.C. you know, by myself, divorced from my wife. Not divorced, but I mean separated divorced. And it's hard.
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Nicole Wallace
A full day's work is hard. Our colleague Caroline, today broke the news that that man, who in his own words said it was, quote, hard, divorced, divorced from my wife, from my friends, all day staring at those four walls. That guy, the number two official at the FBI for less than a year, is preparing to vacate that position as soon as Friday. Dan Bongino, who as we just showed you, made no secret of the struggle he faced in doing that job, has, according to Carolinig's reporting, quote, quietly told confidants he plans to formally le job early in the new year and will not be returning to headquarters to work this month. That's according to eight people briefed on his account. Several people said some of Bongino's personal effects have been cleared out of his office as of last week. Carol's still here. And I want to bring in former assistant special agent in charge of the FBI, national security and intelligence analyst Michael Feinberg. Carol, he said he was, quote, divorced from his wife, but then he said he meant separated physically, not divorced legally. But tell us what you are reporting about Dan Bongino.
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Carol Lennig
Well, we first started hearing that Bongino was telling his inner team that he was leaving on Friday. Initially, Mr. Bongino declined to really engage on the record about this. We kept doing More reporting. And as you see, we now have eight sources saying that he told his inner team and some senior FBI supervisors that he's leaving. And I will add, Nicole, that. And the President has just recently confirmed our reporting, which is always nice to have the President confirm your work when others would not. Basically saying Bongino did a great job and is going, according to the president, under his understanding, is going back to podcasting. What we heard over and over again was that Bongino was not going to come back to the Bureau at all as of December 5th, and that he planned to publicly announce this December 19th. And I can understand why Bongino probably did not want others to break this news. He wanted to break it first, but we've done that now.
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Nicole Wallace
Michael Feinberg, your reaction?
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Michael Feinberg
It was a short, tumultuous tenure, but in many ways, at the time he was appointed, Dan Bongino was the perfect man for the job, in that he combined the emotional temperament, government, and impulse control of the President who appointed him with the intellectual rigor and operational savvy of the Director to whom he reported and the respect for the rule of law and constitutional norms of the Attorney General who directly supervised them both. So in that sense, his complete lack of dedication to the Constitution, law enforcement norms, and the apolitical nature of the FBI fit right in with the past year in the executive branch. But that said, I have not spoken to a single soul at the FBI who is not overjoyed at this news, because Bongino's impact on the organization has been wholly that of a bull in a china shop. And a great number of people have lost their jobs due to his fickle inability to recognize that people can hold one view in their personal life and not bring it with them to work and execute on their job solely on a professional, apolitical basis.
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Nicole Wallace
If you both indulge me. I mean, I think Carol is one of the country's most respected journalists because for objectivity, Michael, you've spent your career in the FBI, and so let it fall to me. This guy is a freaking joke. He wears T shirts that are obviously too small. And he went on Fox News and complained about how long the workday is as the number two at the FBI. The FBI, as you two know better than anyone, protects children from child sex traffickers. And on that topic, Dan Bongino had a successful podcast in part because he peddled conspiracy theories about Jeffrey Epstein and then got to the FBI and let Pam Bonney roll over him when they decided to cover up the files. Because Donald Trump's name is in them, a fact confirmed by Susie Wiles. This week in eleven on the Record interviews with Chris Whipple. I want to know if either of you can speak to the lasting damage or the danger that we're in because a guy that is a joke was the number two at the FBI. Michael.
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Michael Feinberg
Yeah, look, I was obviously being completely sarcastic in my initial praise of him. He's influenced his influence on the FBI and his impact on the safety of our country's communities has been wholly negative. He is personally responsible for the jettisoning of a great number of senior executives who dedicated their lives to the service of this country, who had collectively between them centuries of subject matter, expertise in how to disrupt terrorist plots, stop foreign spies, and unravel criminal enterprises. And he got rid of them because he was concerned they did not vote for the right person. That sort of justification for raising an entire institution is something that we have never seen before in our country's history. The FBI is a worse place because of him. The country is less safe because of him. And the damage he caused is going to take us decades to rebuild if we ever get the chance.
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Nicole Wallace
You know, I pray to God that when, I don't know, cooler minds doesn't even seem like the right word. But when an appreciation of the centuries of experience that he purged from the FBI makes its way back, that in the intervening period, nothing happens to this country. Nothing bad. But that's a wish. That is me wish casting. And nobody that has worked in national security thinks that there's a very strong chance that nothing will happen. I want to press both of you on the current threat environment that this country faces at the end of Bongino's tenure there. No one's going anywhere. We'll be right back.
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Michael Feinberg
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- [38:38]
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- [39:08]
Nicole Wallace
Carol, I want to play for you what Dan Bungino, the number two at the FBI said on Sean Hannity's program a little less than two weeks ago.
- [39:19]
Jamie Raskin
You know, I don't know if you remember this. This is before you became the Deputy FBI director. You put a post on X right after this happened and you said there's a massive cover up because the person that planted those pipe bombs, they don't want you to know who it is because it's either a connected anti Trump insider or an inside job. You said that, you know, long before you even thought of as Deputy FBI Director. Yeah, that's why I said to you this investigation's just begun. We are pretty comfortable. We have our guy. I think again, legal process starts to surface and information, facts start to come out. The public's gonna be very comfortable with the investigation that was conducted under Director Patel and his leadership. He's been great on this. But I don't wanna, you know, listen, I was paid in the past, Sean, for my opinions. That's clear. And one day I'll be back in that space. But that's not what I'm paid for now. I'm paid to be your deputy director and we base investigations on facts.
- [40:23]
Nicole Wallace
Carol, I guess more important than me saying it, is him saying it, that I was paid for my opinions. But that's not what I'm paid for now. I'm paid to be your deputy director and we base our investigations on fact. What's amazing about that clip, in light of the Susie Wiles 11 on the Record interviews, is that unlike in 1.0 when they were caught lying or caught admitting they were being political, there was attempt at cleanup or backpedal. They're just saying it all out loud that what they say isn't rooted in fact. It was rooted in opinion, which Bongino seems to be saying is in conflict with. I want to quote him accurately quote. We base investigations on facts. Your thoughts on what he did in 11 months as the deputy director of the FBI.
- [41:14]
Carol Lennig
You know, Dan Bongino, a former Secret Service agent I knew when he was an agent had never worked in the FBI. And his position and his role as Deputy director was always going to be controversial because no Deputy Director in modern history has not been an FBI agent. With actual operational experience. So he was always going to have this huge thing hanging over his head. But he exacerbated that dramatically by before he joined the FBI, he and now Director Patel pushing, promoting conspiracy theories about the FBI suggesting the FBI was involved in instigating January 6th, suggesting that and I say this about the two of them together, not separately instigating conspiracy theories that claimed that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered when the government said, including Bill Barr, the attorney general said that he had committed suicide instigating conspiracies to suggest that there was a cover up about the pipe bomb and the FBI was sitting on information because they didn't want people to know that it was likely an anti Trump person who had started all of this. Actually, now we know that the pipe bomb suspect actually he told FBI agents in his recent confessional interview that he was generally aligned with Donald Trump and believed that there was fraud. As Donald Trump said in the election, the fact that he did not renounce those earlier claims by him and by Director Kashbattel made him a suspect leader of day to day operations. And very soon into his tenure, Donald Trump arranged to install a co deputy director. Never has happened before. And what we are told by sources is that co deputy director was doing that hard job of actually being the CEO of the Bureau.
- [43:26]
Nicole Wallace
Caroline Michael Feinberg, thank you for being here and talking through these developments with us today. After the break for us, Nick Reiner was in court today. We'll bring the latest on that story next. Nick Reiner, the son of Rob Reiner and Michelle Singer Reiner, made his first appearance in court today after being charged with two counts of first degree murder and the death of his parents. His lawyer told the court it was too early to enter a plea and that the prosecution had agreed to delay the arraignment that is now scheduled for January 7. We also received new security camera videos from the Arco station showing Reiner just moments before his arrest, purchasing a Gatorade and walking across the intersection to stand at a bus stop. We heard from the couple's other children speaking out publicly for the very first time since their parents death. Jake and Rami Reiner's statement reads in part. Words cannot even begin to describe the unimaginable pain we are experiencing every moment of the day. They weren't just our parents, they were our best friends. We now ask for respect and privacy, for speculation to be tempered with compassion and humanity, and for our parents to be remembered for the incredible lives they lived and the love they gave. After the break, one of the Democrats working to put a stop to Donald Trump's unauthorized strikes off Venezuela will be our next guest. The next hour deadline White House starts right after quick break.
- [44:56]
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- [44:58]
Jamie Raskin
You brought it back. Ranch snack wrap.
- [45:01]
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- [45:03]
Jamie Raskin
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