Paul Rykoff (6:27)

I think it starts with understanding. This has always been the plan, right? This has always been the plan to seize the levers of power and start with the military. And what you've got now is Trump crossing every single barrier that has been in place for hundreds of years. And it's unprecedented, it's unacceptable, and it's deeply dangerous, whether it's overseas or it's domestic, because you have no clear mission, whether it's Venezuela or the National Guard. You have no clear end state. You have no even budgeting for these sorts of things. Importantly, you don't have the American people behind it. Anytime you commit the troops before you commit the American public, you put them in a very dangerous situation. So, just to use Venezuela as an example, they're talking a lot about the drug smugglers. They're Talking about the 11 that were killed, but they're not talking about the American troops that were put at risk. And the commander in chief has an obligation to explain to the American people, to Congress and to the public why he's putting American troops at risk, whether it's on the streets of Chicago, for example, or overseas in Venezuela. And he's not doing any of that. There's no accountability, there's no responsibility, there's no transparency. And everything about it is bad. And I think it's the most important story in the country and potentially the most important story in the world, because this is the same thing that happened with the Iran strikes. It's the same thing that's happening in Venezuela. It's happening over and over again overseas, and now in more and more cities in America.

Nicole Wallace (7:47)

Well, let me just follow up. I mean, with the Iran strike, when he went to the country to ostensibly explain, he said that Iran's nuclear capabilities were obliterated. And when the actual intelligence from the military didn't bear that out, he fired the people in charge of military intelligence. So what confidence do the men and women of the military have that they're being asked to do things that are based on actual factual threats less and.

Paul Rykoff (8:19)

Less by the day? Because it's so many different things with so many different rationales. But the consistent theme is a lack of transparency and a lack of accountability. Congress is just getting steamrolled here. But he's also attacking something that's very important. They're attacking the truth. They're attacking the understanding of what happens, what happens on our city streets, what happens in Venezuela, what happens in Iran, and even boiling it down to the National Guardsmen on the MALL In Washington, D.C. the morale is going down because you're asking infantry soldiers from to pick up garbage on the Mall. This is not what they were designed to do. And it's abuse and abuse of power. It's an abuse of the responsibility of the commander in chief. And fundamentally, it's an abuse of our troops. This is not what they signed up for. Young men and women didn't sign up to join the army to police garbage on the Mall or be sent in any other number of missions. So it's a break of the most sacred compact he has as commander in chief. And that's why I say this was the most dangerous course of action with Trump. And remember, it can go further. He has nukes. So what if he wants to, for example, do a nuke strike and doesn't think? He has to provide transparency or reasoning or accountability. He just keeps going up on the ratcheting and the danger keeps getting higher.

Nicole Wallace (9:26)

Tom Nichols, we were warned men who say very little describe Donald Trump as, quote, a fascist to the core. Mark Milley, Jim Mattis. And when asked if he agreed with that, John Kelly said that Donald Trump met, quote, all the technical definitions of a fascist.

Tom Nichols (9:52)

Donald Trump's instincts. I wrote shortly before he took office that he has the soul of a fascist and the mind of a disordered child. He is. If there were absolutely no limits to his power, he would exercise his power without limits. And, you know, Paul's right. That's what he's trying to do. And he's trying to get Americans acclimated to this. I think that's another important thing here, is that he wants there to be lots of video of soldiers walking around American streets. Because when the time comes, when he wants to do that, perhaps during an election or for some other reason other than supposedly crime, he wants Americans to be used to that scene. He wants Americans say, okay, that's just normal. I guess that we've always done that, because people, I think, unfortunately, and this is where as mad as we all want to get at Donald Trump, you know, the American people just aren't paying attention and aren't really thinking this, thinking about this in the way they should. So he's getting away with it. And he's doing things like, you know, blowing up drug boats and putting soldiers in the streets that are gross violations of the American civil military compact going back all the way to, to George Washington. And you know, there is no, there is no limit to this. I mean, you know, I hate to say it, but Paul's absolutely right. There are no limits even to his use of a nuclear weapon. That's why it's called the President's weapon. He can pretty much do what he wants, especially if Congress is so afraid of its own voters that, that they simply won't speak up and act. I mean, you know, it's getting kind of tiresome hearing senators talk about how disappointed they are in Bobby Kennedy or Pet Hegseth or someone else. Well, you know, we're all looking for the guys who created this situation, apparently. But you know, the answer lies in the hands of Congress if Congress wants to act like the article 1co= branch of government that it is.

Nicole Wallace (11:58)

You know, to Miller, the old explanations don't apply anymore either though, because to Paul Rykoff's point, this isn't where the American people are. This isn't where MAGA is. I mean, there isn't some mandate to put troops trained for war or natural disasters on the streets picking up garbage. There's no mandate for that. The argument that Democrats have begun advancing about crime and violence, I think we heard at the beginning of the week from Governor Pritzker and the mayor of Chicago when they said our cities will continue to have a violence problem as long as red states have a gun problem. I wonder what you make of the extreme confidence in acting well outside the mandate of even the MAGA voter.

Tim Miller (12:48)

Yeah, they're actually probably acting in an anti mandate stance, at least when it comes to the military part of this. Maybe not the troops in the streets, but there was at least some. Trump had this weird coalition where there were some people that were excited about his violent rhetoric and authoritarianism and saw him as a tough guy. And then there were other people that saw him as a peace candidate. And you heard this, this was part of the RFK Tulsi coalition and part of the Manosphere coalition. They, they didn't want, they wanted, they thought, they believed Trump. And he was like, I'm going to get us out of wars. Right. And so here he is renaming the Department of Defense the Department of War. Not exactly subtle. And to use Pete Haggs as language, smoking random drug boats, allegedly drug boats in the Caribbean. And so like, this was absolutely not what, at least what some segment of his elect voted for. And I mean, again, I think that if people had the courage to speak out against it, there would potentially be vulnerability here politically, particularly on the military side of things. I think that the law enforcement side of things in the streets of the cities maybe is more probably appreciated among his supporters. But look, and I think that we can even, should even step back and not even really grant that it was a drug boat that they, that they took out in the Caribbean until we know the facts. I mean, these are the same people that lied and sent these Venezuelans to a foreign torture prison based on their tattoos and the Trump. It's the same president went out and said that they had sent a regular Garcia there because he had MS.13 on his, on his knuckles and he was looking at a photoshopped image. It's too stupid to realize that the photoshopped image was not real and that those weren't his real knuckles. So you can't trust these guys to be telling us the truth. And I think that watching them act with impunity doing summary executions and renaming the Department of Defense Department of War is something that. I think there could be a backlash among some segment of his base if folks were willing to speak out about it.

Nicole Wallace (14:54)

It's so interesting that you use that word, summary execution. Can we just play the image? I don't want this to roll as B roll because this should never be viewed as normal. It is a declassified image, a video of the operation that killed what is alleged to behere. It is watch. So it is a careful and usually tedious process to make a decision about releasing something like that because people die. It is the gravest thing that the men and women of the military are asked to do. That that is part of this propaganda reel is a scandal inside a scandal. Joining our coverage, Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois is here today. She visited Naval Station Great Lakes on the outskirts of Chicago, which is reportedly set to be used by ICE agents ahead of the expected ICE crackdown in the city of Chicago. Senator, first tell us what you observed and what you're bracing for in your state.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (16:04)

Well, what we saw this morning was actually cooperation from the Navy. I really appreciated the commander of Great Lakes Naval Base. This is where every single recruit, every single sailor that joins our nation's Navy goes through training there. Then they also do some advanced training there as well. And they showed us the building that ICE is going to be occupying. It is just an office building. Interestingly enough, we also requested a tour and a visit with the ICE leadership that are going to be there and have been there and they very quickly gave all of their people the day off. Today, after Senator Durbin, Congressman Bradschnider and I made the request, they gave them the day off, they locked up the building and they fled out of there. And so we were not able to speak with them. You know, those are kind the kind of actions that you take when you want to hide something, when you're doing something illegal and when you're ashamed of what you're doing. And so we were able to speak with the Navy. We were able to establish that they will only be able to use the office spaces, that there will be no barracks made available to ice, so that there will be no detainment of individuals there, and then that they can only store non lethal ammunition on the base itself. And so we were able to have a very long 90 minute conversation with the Navy, but DHS and ICE was nowhere to be found. It was crickets around where they were, the building that they're supposed to be occupying.

Nicole Wallace (17:25)

If they had been there, DHS or ICE personnel, what would you have asked them?

Senator Tammy Duckworth (17:32)

Well, I would have asked them what exactly they're conducting out of the office building, what type of missions. I would have asked them whether or not all the ICE agents would be properly identified or would they be masked. I will ask them if, what else are they planning on doing? Because we are not going to allow them to bring detainees onto Great Lakes Naval Base and detain folks there. I would want to see exactly what type of ammunition that they're going to be using as well, basically to hold them accountable and let them know that we are watching what they're doing. Overall, the city of North Chicago and the surrounding communities have made it clear to their law enforcement officers that they will not cooperate with DHS and ICE unless there is a federal warrant, not one of these fake ICE warrants, but a federal warrant, and that they're not going to participate and support ICE actions in basically harassing and intimidating everyday people on the streets of our cities.

Nicole Wallace (18:29)

Let me ask you about something that former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said today in a New York Times article. Actually, and he served as Pentagon General Counsel before he was Homeland Security Secretary for President Obama. He noted that Congress had not authorized force against drug cartels and that the Coast Guard and Navy had long interdicted suspected drug smuggling boats. Quote, here the President appears to be invoking his amorphous constitutional authority to kill low level drug couriers on the high seas with no due process, arrest or trial, quote, viewed in isolation, labeling drug cartels as terrorists and invoking the national interest to use the US Military to summarily kill low level drug couriers is pretty extreme. Do you believe it's legal?

Senator Tammy Duckworth (19:18)

No, it's not legal. I also think that this is just the first step towards him potentially setting the groundwork to do something within US Territory. So he's doing it international waters now. But you know, what is he, what what's next in Americanin our territorial waters on US Soil? What exactly is next? I agree with, you know, the discussion that's already been ongoing. This president is setting the conditions so that he can actually unilaterally occupy the streets of our cities and interfere in the next election, do what he wants. And I am absolutely disgusted with my Republican colleagues who, you know, on top of confirming the likes of Pete Hegseth and, you know, Secretary Kennedy are not holding them accountable, have a chance here to stop them. I hope that my colleagues will step forward and stop them. But let's see what they're going to do. So far, all they've done is been collaborators and co conspirators in the Trump attempts to basically undermine the basic law and order of our nation.

Nicole Wallace (20:17)

Senator, do you hear from any whistleblowers or people concerned inside the military?

Senator Tammy Duckworth (20:24)

Oh, significantly, I served in the Illinois National Guard for 17 years and in the reserves for another six years on top before that. The military does not want to be used in this way. And I do want to say something to the folks who are watching. Please respect the men and women of the National Guard. They are being used as a political pawn by this president. They don't have the option of saying no. And so we need to make sure that we understand that the National Guard is being abused and disused. They should be out there preparing and training for their wartime mission or to respond to natural disasters, you know, when a tornado hits Southern Illinois. But instead they are being used to intimidate fellow citizens and people on the streets of our cities. And simply that is an abuse of the National Guard and the men and women who swore an oath to defend this country.

Nicole Wallace (21:15)

Senator Duckworth, every word of everything you said today, thank you so much for all of it. We really appreciate you much more as Donald Trump busts through rules and norms and laws governing the US Military that that haven't been broken in 250 years. We'll bring our panel back into the conversation after a quick break. Also ahead, in a world in which universities and law firms and cultural institutions are capitulating so quickly to Donald Trump that we don't even cover all their capitulation and acrobatics on this show on a daily basis. There are precious few pockets of light and humor and people using their platforms to do good and confront the excesses and extremism we are living through from this White House. We'll show you what that looks like later in the hour. Deadland White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

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Nicole Wallace (23:42)

We're back with Paul Tom and Tim Tom, let me come back to your piece about the other big piece of news on this Pete Haig says Department of Cringe is the title of your new piece, quote Last month, when the plan was still just a hypothetical, the president was asked why he favored it. He said that Department of War quote just sounded better, and that it would be a callback to the name under which US Forces fought in the two world wars. But the change is also a reflection of how much Trump and Secretary of Defense his title for now, Pete Hegseth think of themselves as tough guys, real fighters who will no longer trifle with silly names about defending things. Hegseth in particular, is obsessed with war fighters, a clunky Pentagon term that's been around for far too long, who will engage in war fighting with great lethality. This is, you know, sort of toxic masculinity run amok. Married to the unlikely and unfortunate command of the entire US Military. What could go wrong? Tell me what happens next. Pull the thread on what you've written today.

Tom Nichols (24:47)

Well, I think the first thing is that Trump has cleverly here tried to make it so that you can call the DOD the Department of War, but it's still officially also the DoD because he doesn't want to tangle with Congress about having to rename this, so he wants to be able to just say Department of War, Secretary of War. I suspect that the only people who don't think this is completely inane and completely vapid are Pete Hegseth and Donald Trump and maybe two or three other guys. My assumption is having, again, having worked with military officers for more than 25 years, I cannot imagine there's a constituency anywhere in the military or in the Pentagon for referring to our national military establishment as the Department of War. In part because. Because it's not only childlike. And that's the thing, you know, it's not just toxic masculinity and sort of macho stunt, you know, kind of a macho stunt. It's childish. It's the kind of thing a 9 year old would do if you said you're in charge of the Pentagon. But the, the other problem is that people who understand military affairs and national defense understand that it's not about war every day, that the national defense is an ongoing thing that is conducted with military training, military operations with our allies, diplomacy, all kinds of other things. And to call it the Department of War is just stupid. I mean, it's just a reflection of flat out ignorance about how a superpower is a superpower and what the Pentagon does every day.

Nicole Wallace (26:34)

I mean, Tim, there's so much to say Tom's piece and off of Tom's analysis, but I'll bring it back to stupid. I guess my roll around here it is the height of stupid politics for Donald Trump, who beat both of our old boss, I mean, who wins in the Republican primary in 2016 because he is the most anti war person and then drives a wedge between Hillary Clinton and some independent voters over issues of national security and war. His entire identity is wrapped up in being an anti war figure. And so as he's shedding voters over his crappy economy and shedding voters who were really, really looking forward to reading all of the gigabytes of data. And since I asked how big a gigabyte is, my feed is full of explanations of how many documents that is. This is a lot of documents they're waiting for all of them. Not One book, he's shedding another little layer of the onion here. And I'm not saying he's gonna lose the MAGA coalition, and I'm not saying anyone in Congress is gonna wake up tomorrow morning and find their spines or any other body part, but it is not good for him politically to be wrapping all this up in the thing that is part of his political strength and identity.

Tim Miller (27:53)

Yeah, look, let's just set aside the merits of his foreign policy and of isolationist foreign policy for a second, because I'm pretty much against all of Donald Trump's foreign policy instincts. Maybe not every sing, but darn close to it. And just look at the politics of this purely. I don't think you could argue with the fact that Donald Trump clearly benefited politically and the Republican Party benefited politically from being positioned as being a more anti war party over the last eight years. Maybe it was. That was bs, you know, obviously, maybe people that were Palestinian advocates who kind of went along with that might look back at that and think, think, ooh, that was a bad deal that we made. But, like, just pure, out of pure politics, he positioned himself with the electorate as somebody that was going to be more skeptical towards these wars that people are frustrated with and tired of. And, and he did that effectively in both 2016 and 2024 in his victories. And, and I think that the Democrats, you know, because a lot of times Democrats get stuck in this bind where they want to defend institutions for good reason, want to defend the Defense Department, want to defend the FBI. That's like, found themselves at times kind of being more defensive over this foreign policy, bipartisan foreign policy establishment that people weren't that fond of. And so to me, I think it's a stupid name change. Obviously it's childish, it's silly, but it also, I think, provides Democrats a little bit of a propaganda opportunity back to kind of say, no, actually these guys are who you thought they were. They are the war candidates. They're the ones that are acting recklessly. They're the ones that are going to create problems in foreign affairs. And I think it'd probably be smart for Democrats to try to take that mantle back a little bit.

Nicole Wallace (29:40)

You get the last word.

Paul Rykoff (29:41)

It's more on brand fake tough guy bullshit. And it is central to him because it's about being tough, it's about being strong, and it's about optics right. This is what people want from him in his base, and he likes that. He likes to feel tough and strong, but it, again, undermines our natural security and it hurts our troops, because how can our troops be trusted as peacekeepers overseas if, for example, they're standing with NATO, if now we're called the Department of War? And we haven't even talked in this entire segment about the news today from the New York Times that There was a 2019 operation by Navy SEALs in North Korea. He also operated in North Korea.

Nicole Wallace (30:20)

That he approved.

Paul Rykoff (30:20)

That he approved in North Korea without congressional approval, without transparency. There's not much talk about it today. Right. And so if we're going to call the Department of War, let's face the fact that we haven't had of lot a formal declaration of war since it was renamed after World War II. We haven't had a formal declaration of war in a generation. So if he wants to call it the Department of War, let's go back to Congress and get formal declarations of war every time you want to send troops to Venezuela or Iran or North Korea.

Nicole Wallace (30:45)

You know he won't, though.

Paul Rykoff (30:46)

I know, but we should demand it.

Nicole Wallace (30:49)

Is there a legal mechanism to slow this down or is he running on open?

Paul Rykoff (30:56)

I think there may be a legal mechanism because he seems to be violating the Constitution and the use of our military. But the question is, can anybody stop him? And so far, the Democrats haven't and the Republicans won't. So I continue to go back to, you know, conscientious American people who need to stand up and understand national security is the most central piece because the stakes are higher here than everything else. And this is not a distraction from other things. This is. This is the thing. This is the thing.

Nicole Wallace (31:23)

Yeah. You and Tim Miller both made that point. Paul Rykoff, Tom Nichols, thank you for starting us off. Tim sticks around with me. When we come back, how entertainment and pop culture continue to pull no punches in some corners when it comes to Donald Trump as other institutions bend the knee, fold up their tents, whatever you want to call it, it is comedy. The it has emerged as the loudest voice of resistance against a guy who hates being laughed at. We'll have that conversation and show you the newest examples what we can of them from south park and beyond. Viewers of this program know it well. Institutions across our country are buckling and self censoring on a daily, sometimes hourly basis in the face of Donald Trump's reelection and his clear, brazen public commitment to pursuing authoritarian tactics and quest for power. Just this week, Northwestern lost its president who had clashed with Republicans. Harvard is still negotiating a massive settlement with the Trump administration despite a big win in court this week. Law firms are quietly working for the Trump administration. Now, as part of their quote unquote deal, CBS is on the precipice of a legacy altering set of decisions. But amid all of this cowering and shape shifting, one group, rather inexplicably remains completely undaunted. Emboldened, actually. They're comedians and comedy writers. Case in point, the cartoon. South park has been merciless, more provocative than ever since its new season began earlier this year, and skewering Trump and his administration and those figures and institutions who have fallen in line, highlighting the absolute absurdity of that complicity in the process. Take a look.

Dominic Patton (33:22)

The president has just returned from his.

Tim Miller (33:24)

Historic tariff summit overseas. There's the President now, looking handsome as ever.

Nicole Wallace (33:29)

Oh, and there's the prince of dinner.

Dominic Patton (33:31)

Who'S been traveling with the President as of late.

Nicole Wallace (33:34)

The President has made his way off.

Tim Miller (33:36)

Of Air Force One and will now speak to a diverse crowd of reporters.

Dominic Patton (33:41)

Mr. President, how did the tariff meetings go?

Nicole Wallace (33:43)

Uh, they weren't great, buddy.

Tim Miller (33:47)

Mr. President, we're all dying to know something. Your wife Melania has been staying in New York and away from the White House.

Nicole Wallace (33:53)

That's right.

Tim Miller (33:55)

Well, what Fox News really wants to know is, are you Satan? No, I'm not Satan.

Dominic Patton (34:03)

We're just sort of hanging out. Oh, come on, President Trump, with everything.

Tim Miller (34:08)

You'Ve been doing, pretty much the whole country thinks you're Satan now.

Nicole Wallace (34:12)

I'm not Satan.

Dominic Patton (34:14)

Can we go, please?

Tim Miller (34:19)

He is Satan. That guy's definitely Satan.

Nicole Wallace (34:23)

What a student. That was literally all we could show you. Joining our conversation is Dominic Patton. He's the executive editor of Deadline.com Tim Miller is still with us. I think we've talked about south park every time there's been a new episode because it's south park and it's brilliant, but also because it's such an outlier. What is fueling this?

Dominic Patton (34:48)

Well, I think in many ways, Nicole, what's fueling this is, I think the south park creators, Trey Parker, Matt Stone, want Donald Trump to have a temper tantrum. They want to push him to that place where he can't take it anymore. And as you saw by the episode by which viewers can see on Paramount plus or other places, and you could only show a little bit of here, they're really pushing it. And trust me, there's a big announcement later in this, too. At the same time, though, and I think you brought this up in the intro, they're pushing the sycophants, Fox News in this episode and and other cabinet members in past episodes, we're seeing it again and again and again, the fear of lawsuits, what have you. So I think that they're trying to. And this is what satire excels at when it does it well. They are trying to, like some of the late night hosts are trying to, like Mark Maron has been relentlessly trying to do is really get under the skin of MAGA about what they're doing and put them in the absurd light that many of them deserve to be in. The question is, of course, is what is the effect? What's surprising in many ways, it might be a disappointment to some is, is Trump has yet to respond significantly. The White House has responded to south park, but Trump himself has not yet quite put out that true social tweet post that everyone's looking for to show that he just can't take it anymore. And that, I think, is when south park feels they're gonna hit success.

Nicole Wallace (36:05)

Let me show you what some of those other folks have been creating. This is Seth Meyers on RFK and Colbert on windmill.

Tim Miller (36:16)

They want to praise Trump for producing the COVID vaccine while simultaneously on that same vaccine, which led to this awkward exchange during RFK Jr. S Senate hearing today.

Paul Rykoff (36:25)

Do you agree with me that the President, that the president deserves a Nobel Prize for Operation Warp Speed?

Dominic Patton (36:31)

Absolutely, Senator.

Nicole Wallace (36:33)

Phenomenal.

Paul Rykoff (36:33)

Let me ask you.

Tom Nichols (36:35)

But you just told Senator Bennett that.

Paul Rykoff (36:38)

The COVID vaccine killed more people than Covid.

Tim Miller (36:43)

Wait, that was a statement.

Dominic Patton (36:44)

I did not say that.

Tim Miller (36:46)

I did not say that. Senator. My brain worm said that.

Dominic Patton (36:52)

Speaking of diseases Americans caught from Florida, Donald Trump, the President Trump is concerned with something he finds far more dangerous than disease. Big, ugly windmills, they ruin your neighborhood. The windmills. The windmills that don't work when you need them.

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The windmills are driving the whales crazy.

Nicole Wallace (37:23)

Obviously.

Dominic Patton (37:24)

You want to see a bird cemetery, just go under a windmill. You want to see a bird cemetery. You want to see a bird widow in her veil crying over the casket, an open casket. I don't know why they made that choice. It looks like a mess in there. She's squawking. It should have been me. All while throwing up in her little baby's mouths because they're hungry. And Papa Bird isn't there anymore. He was murdered. It was bird murder. It was birder. Rest in beak. Everybody.

Nicole Wallace (37:57)

I mean, and they do it every night. Seth Meyers does it every night. Colbert does it every night. I wonder if Dominic, if there's any chance that Trump is part of the audience. But it's for the rest of us just to say, lighten up, get off your doom scrolling get out of the, get off the couch and do what you can. I mean, it's so effective to just laugh at all of them.

Commercial Announcer (38:24)

Well, yeah.

Dominic Patton (38:25)

I mean, I think this is one of the places where, for instance, Gavin Newsom has been really effective because he's turned Trump's absurdities in terms of his posting in all caps is one example against him. And now they've started using AI and other ways like that to mock. That definitely is getting under the president's skin. And you know, he can't help but respond to it. I think the governor of Illinois has had some success at that. But I guess what, I guess what we're all waiting for Nicole. And you know, I'm interested what Tim thinks about this is what's the next level? Like when is the comedy going to be enough? When are we going to see, for instance, like, I don't know, President Obama, President Clinton, when are we going to see them out front really taking this, taking this momentum and really hitting it home?

Nicole Wallace (39:07)

Yeah, I wonder the same thing. Where does it funnel into in terms of political energy or is it not that. We'll let Tim answer that question after a very short break. We'll all be right back.

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Nicole Wallace (40:08)

The American people are basically telling the president that they are not okay with any of this.

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Nicole Wallace (40:37)

We'Re back with Dominic and Tim. I mean, Tim, Dominic put the $64 million question to you. Does any of it matter politically?

Tim Miller (40:46)

Yeah, well, I think there are two parts of this. One is can it give other people the backbone to get to speak out? And that's like the most frustrating part about all of this is you would think that south park would be showing the way that, like, there's not risk here that all of these people say there is, that you can speak out against Trump, especially if you come from a place of power and privilege. I think that's the most frustrating thing about watching all these tech execs go there and slobber over him yesterday as if the richest people in the history of the world could not survive and keep their dignity intact at the same time. But hopefully I'm not counting our chickens on that. To me, I think the political implication that is maybe more powerful, which is true, especially of south park, is you're seeing this trickle down into other more kind of comedians that appeal more to people in the maga. Right. Particularly the kind of manosphere type comedians. I'm thinking of Tim Dillon in particular and Andrew Schultz. I don't. Your viewers might not be familiar with them or they might, but I've been watching a lot of their shows lately and they are pretty, they're starting to get pretty skeptical of this administration and they want to be outsiders. They don't, you know, comedians don't want to be talking heads and mouthpieces for the administration like a Charlie Kirk might. They, you know, they want to be contrarian. And Trump's given a lot to work with, whether it be, you know, the military stuff or whether it be, you know, there's a lot of funny material out there about JD Vance I've been watching and how and Peter Thiel and his four speeches on the Antichrist he's giving RISA coming up and how maybe we should be a little bit concerned if one of the most influential people in MAGA is giving four speeches on the Antichrist in the next month. So I think that like the south park and the Tim Dillon starting to poke fun at these guys, I think could have a real political impact because it might pop the bubble of invincibility that Trump has had with some part of his base.

Nicole Wallace (42:34)

Yeah, I mean, Dominic, the tricky part of sort of covering the Trump story with clear eyes is there. And I agree with Tim's analysis, I mentioned this earlier, it's not a distraction. It's all the thing because to Trump, there aren't important parts of the job and frivolous parts of the job. To him, the most important parts of the job are what to probably every prior president seem frivolous. He cares what people look like. He picks people based on facial hair. Like that is the whole thing. And I wonder how Much of sort of the entertainment industry is scared or is frozen or is paralyzed because of the projections of strength. And how much of the industry is just sort of waiting to see if there are consequences for those who are speaking out.

Dominic Patton (43:21)

Well, I think Nicole Owen, one thing to look at that is just look what happened today when CBS News, after getting some pushback from Secretary Noem about a piece they did with her with a standard edit that everyone does when they do interviews like this for time and clarity, suddenly come out and say, yeah, we're not going to have any more. We're not going to do any edits. Everything's going to be live or live to tape now on these news magazines, Sunday news magazine shows, you know, as if somehow like, oh, sorry we offended you in your attempt to just tell your version of reality. Now I would also say more poignant perhaps to your point is maybe the job is of the journalist to actually push back as opposed to just go for an edit. You could actually challenge these people on their facts or lack thereof. I think that there is still a hesitancy, a great hesitancy for the very reason that Tim just brought up. You just saw these tech guys and what was Basically the Apprentice 2.0 at the White House last night, you know, waiting to get hired and fired or who gets tariffed or not. This is a reality show playing itself out into a dystopian reality. And we need actually bigger stars. And that's why I keep coming back to where's Barack Obama? Where's Bill Clinton? Why don't they show up on the floor of the Senate? Suddenly you're gonna find all the attention pulls away from the man in the White House to the men who used to be in the White House.

Nicole Wallace (44:42)

It just feels like at a moment like this, it all matters more than it should, but it definitely matters. Dominic, thank you so much for joining us. Tim Miller, thank you for spending the whole hour with me. One more break. We'll be right back. We wanted to send you off on this Friday with some serious political mojo. A pep talk for anybody in the pro democracy movement from someone who knows how to fight for democracy. We have to reclaim the patriotism that.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (45:12)

We all say spurs us.

Nicole Wallace (45:14)

We have to call the cowards what.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (45:16)

They are and we have to defeat.

Nicole Wallace (45:17)

Them at their own game by showing up despite what they tried to do to stop us. That was voting rights activist and all around badass Stacey Abrams. She is my guest on the new episode of the Best People. Scan the QR code on your screen and subscribe to MSNBC Premium if you want to listen right now. And a reminder, the one and only Martin Sheen will be my guest on October 11th at MSNBC Live 25 for a live in person taping of the best people. Go to msnbc.comlive25 for tickets. One more break. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes for another week of shows. We're so grateful.

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