← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"Are you better off than you were nine months ago?"
00:42:27
Nicolle Wallace on a campaign push in Virginia and New Jersey from the most popular and beloved president of the United States - Barack Obama.
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- [00:01]
Nicole Wallace
Our nation has always counted on us to win, to fight for what better.
- [00:06]
Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene
Could be, to secure our future together.
- [00:11]
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- [00:21]
President Barack Obama (voice clips)
Expensive and more complicated than the last.
- [00:24]
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- [00:55]
Nicole Wallace
It's 4 o' clock in New York at a moment when Donald Trump's political standing with the American people is at its lowest. So low that it's lower right now than it was after the insurrection, after Donald Trump sent a mob to storm the United states Capitol on January 6th. So at that moment, enter the most popular and beloved living President of these United States of America and watch him come out swinging. President Barack Obama, making a forceful case against Donald Trump, has only he can do, tying Donald Trump's flagrant and brazen corruption, his contempt for the rule of law and human rights and facts and science, together with a bow on top. At stops in Virginia and New Jersey over the weekend, the President was campaigning for Democratic gubernatorial candidate Mikey Sherrill. Obama called the Trump administration, quote, all tricks and no treats.
- [01:47]
Minnie Timaraju
Watch.
- [01:49]
President Barack Obama (voice clips)
It's hard to know where to start, because every day this White House offers up a fresh batch of lawlessness and carelessness and mean spiritedness and just plain old craziness. We've got a president who thinks it's okay to use the Justice Department, just, for example, to use the Justice Department to go after his political opponents. Wait, wait, wait. Here's a rule. You can't boo. You gotta vote. They won't hear you if you're booing, but they'll hear your vote. So you've got a president who replaces career prosecutors with loyalists who will do his bidding, and now he's telling them to hand over millions of taxpayer dollars that he had to pay in expenses for previously violating the law. We've got a commander in chief who has fired decorated military officers because he thinks they might be more loyal to the Constitution than they are to him. Don't boo. He's deployed the National Guard in American cities and claimed to be stopping crime waves that don't actually exist. We got masked ice agents pulling in unmarked vans and grabbing people off the streets, including US Citizens don't boo vote. Grabbing them on the suspicion that they don't look like real Americans. We've got Health and Human Services secretary who opposes proven science and then peddles quack medicine. We've got a top White House aide who calls Democrats the whole Democratic Party domestic extremists. And then we've got some poor labor economists who got fired for accurately reporting bad job numbers that Trump didn't like. It's like every day is Halloween, except it's all tricks and no treats.
- [04:28]
Nicole Wallace
No treats indeed. President Obama turning these races into a referendum on Donald Trump with a simple question for all voters. Are you better off than you were nine months ago?
- [04:39]
President Barack Obama (voice clips)
Is the economy working better for you? Because it sure has gotten better for Trump and his family since he's been in office. The family crypto business and other ventures have made hundreds of millions of dollars getting investment from foreign nationals and rich folks looking to stay in the President's good graces. The economy has been really good for some of Trump's billionaire friends, and it's been good for some finance bros and well connected corporations who've seen their tax bill go down and don't have to worry about all those pesky regulators anymore. But for ordinary families, for you, your neighbors, your friends, costs have not gone down. They've gone up. Partly because of Trump's shambolic tariff policy.
- [05:52]
Nicole Wallace
Polls show that a solid majority of all Americans feel exactly the way President Obama articulated. A CNN poll shows Donald Trump's approval rating at 30 of Americans. Donald Trump's disapproval rating is at 63%. That is the highest number of people who disapprove of Donald Trump and the history of this poll asking that question. 61% of Americans say Trump's policies have made the economy worse. 61% of Americans think Donald Trump has gone too far in using the power of his presidency. Just 10% of Americans approve of his demolition and destruction of the East Wing of the White House. Here's what President Barack Obama had to say about that.
- [06:36]
President Barack Obama (voice clips)
And as for the president, he has been focused on critical issues like paving over the Rose Garden so folks don't get mud on their shoes and gold plating the Oval Office and building a $300 million ballroom. So, Virginia, here's the good news. If you can't visit a doctor, don't worry. He will save you a dance. And if you don't get an invitation to the next White House shindig, you can always watch the festivities and all the beautiful people on Truth Social.
- [07:16]
Nicole Wallace
It's about where we are, the Democratic Party, the Democratic candidates and President Barack Obama. Making the 2025 election choice a referendum on Donald Trump and his administration is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. New York Times White House correspond Tyler Pager is here. President and CEO of Reproductive Freedom for All, Mini Timaraju is back at the table. Also back with us at the table for like the next 72 hours, I hope, pretty much. My friend and colleague, MSNBC political analyst former Senator Claire McCaskill. We'll get to the races and the state of play, but I think everyone who is for the country remaining a democracy, which looks like those numbers are ticking up by the hour, breathes a sigh of relief when President Obama enters the chat.
- [08:05]
Claire McCaskill
Yeah, and boy, nothing's better than sarcastic Obama. He is just the best when he really hits his mark on using his incredible oratorical skills to skewer a character like Donald Trump. I think we have a lot of talent in the Democratic Party. I know everybody is teeth gnashing and worrying about who's going to emerge and do we have a leader? I think one will emerge. I think the process will demand someone who can communicate well and captures the anger and the frustration that so many Democrats are feeling. And frankly, now a really healthy majority of independents. And that's what I watch in these polls.
- [08:49]
Minnie Timaraju
Nicole.
- [08:52]
Claire McCaskill
The way you look at politics is influenced by what you went through working in the White House. I ran in a state where I could not win with Democratic voters. I had to have independent voters. I had to peel off some of the Republican voters for me to ever win in a state like Missouri. So independent voters are who decides who's president of the United States, and independent voters are who decides who represents states like Pennsylvania and Ohio and North Carolina and Michigan, all the states that we need to gain control in Congress. And what you're seeing in this polling is remarkable among independent voters. Forget about the Democrats and Republic Republicans for a minute and realize that those people that are sick of both parties, they're sick of Donald Trump right now.
- [09:39]
Nicole Wallace
Well, what's interesting, Minnie, is they're the voters. You can't become president without winning them over either.
- [09:45]
Claire McCaskill
You can.
- [09:45]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, so President Obama's, you know, one of his political, one of many of his political feats was assembling the Obama coalition, which included a lot of independent voters. And President Biden assembled a lot of those same individuals. Donald Trump appealed to them last November. And enough numbers to prevail the vast majority of them told us they voted for him because of the price of groceries, largely, and cost of living and inflation. Those are some of his lowest poll numbers. And as much as we appreciate the zingers about the ballroom and the rule of law, I think they're really important issues to a whole lot of people. Every single person in this country except the tech bros. What do you call them? The billionaire, the finance bros. The crypto guys and the lofty corporations. But everybody else is feeling the damage Trump has done to the economy.
- [10:40]
Minnie Timaraju
Yeah. And you know, the SNAP cuts going into effect are almost going to effect right now is just sort of heightening the drama. Right. You're talking about cost of groceries. And now you have many of his own base really unclear whether they can feed their kids next week. I mean, it's almost like a parody, like, how are you having a Great Gatsby party at the same time that millions of Americans could lose access to do basics like bread and milk and eggs? You know, I think the same coalition of voters, though, going to New Jersey and Virginia, going to Mikey Sherrill and Abigail Spamberger, they're the same coalition that they need. So I don't think it's an accident that this is coming down to an Obama Trump fight. It's almost like a proxy war in some of these places, but particularly in those two states where there are so many folks who depend on federal government contracts, they work for the government and they have really been. I think you can't separate what's happening right in this moment, the crisis we're seeing right now and the fact that this race is tomorrow and people don't know where they're going to get their next meal.
- [11:48]
Nicole Wallace
You know, this indifference to the suffering.
- [11:51]
Minnie Timaraju
Of.
- [11:53]
Nicole Wallace
Anyone that relies on snap as well as the gutting of the supplies to food pantries. Tyler Pager it feels like these are the sorts of things that because the corruption has always been there. I mean, it was what's her name, Ivanka and Jared who were there. And they were, they had their roles in the White House. They had obviously had roles in the private sector. The boys, the sons ran the company. I mean, there's always been a grift where Trump has been involved, but it seemed from the outside like figures like Steve Bannon were protective of benefits that largely aided or also aided what he would call the MAGAs, the MAGA voters. It is clear that he either has zero influence or he too is in one of these categories of uber wealthy people who no longer care and I wonder if anyone's looking over their shoulder at Marjorie Taylor Greene and the people who might reassemble the political coalition that got Trump there.
- [12:52]
Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene
Yeah, I think there is concern whether it's coming from directly the mouths of, you know, lawmakers and governments, government officials, or it's more in back rooms as they try to figure out a path out of this shutdown. But we're seeing the real world impacts of the government shutdown playing out in communities across the country, and that is a cause for concern for both parties. And we're seeing it. Nicole, as you said from a source, we may, you know, we don't usually associate with criticizing Donald Trump, which is Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who has been a loyal and staunch ally of the president, but has increasingly become critical of the party in the direction that it's going. I think there is some optimism here in Washington that a government shutdown, progress can be made towards lifting it after the elections. I think those are often windows of opportunity when each party tries to regroup and declare victory or try to figure out a path forward after winning or losing races. So I think there is some optimism in Washington that this week could, could mark a turning point. But you're right that there are. You know, early in the government shutdown, the Trump administration tried to reallocate funds to pay the troops and cover some other essential services, but those funds are running out. SNAP is, is a good example of one where that really impacts people of all political leanings all across the country, urban, rural, and that is coming home to roost. And that is a huge political pressure point for people all across Washington and the country.
- [14:24]
Nicole Wallace
Claire, there's been this, I think, parallel conversation, right, that Trump has assaulted the rule of law again since the first day of his first term. And the people that swung over to him in 16 had good vibes. They had good feelings about the economy. Basically, the tariff regime erases all of that. And there are other ways that he's damaged the economy. People feel just as bad, if not worse in some polls. Actually, I think tariffs is his lowest economic number, but inflation is right there, too. People feel terrible about both. But I wonder if you think that feeling betrayed, he ran on lowering the price of the grocery in front of melting meat and groceries at Bedminster. In a summer press conference taken by every network, including this one, everything is more expensive, not just groceries, but everything. And I wonder if that very public and brazen lie opens up the door for seeing the lies on other fronts and questioning his credibility on other matters.
- [15:21]
Claire McCaskill
I will tell you from talking to people in Missouri, I do think that's happening. And keep in mind that the highest use of food assistance benefits, of SNAP benefits in this country per capita is in the smallest rural communities. And when you're in a small rural community, you know who needs help and you know they're getting help and you know that this is impacting them. Then you add on to that what's going on with soybeans and the fact that the markets they spent years building in China disappeared in an instant. And then they go down and give Argentina $20 billion and Argentina is the ones providing China with the soybeans. Then he says, we're going to import Argentinian beef. And so all the ranchers in red rural America are going, what? And then add on to that health care, Nicole. I mean, no one is feeling the crunch of increased health care costs more than people in Rudd R America. This is his base. Now, you can say it's the MAGA people at his rallies, but many of them come from rural America. And I do sense in the parts of Missouri where I spend time, where there's a lot of MAGA support that people are beginning to scratch their head. What are we doing? Starting a war, threatening a war with Nigeria? What are we doing bombing Venezuela? Why? I thought we weren't going to get entangled in foreign wars. Why can't he get prices down on anything? It's hurting him.
- [16:52]
Nicole Wallace
Right? Let me show you a little bit more of what President Obama said just around this issue of how much worse it is basically than what people thought.
- [17:02]
President Barack Obama (voice clips)
You know, a lot of people have asked me lately whether I am surprised at the direction the country has taken. And even though I'm the hope and change guy, I want to be honest with that. And so I admit to them that I have cause for deep concern. I admit to them that I'm worried about how quickly basic democratic rules and norms have been weakened. We don't need to speculate about the dangers to our democracy. They're here. We don't need to wonder if harm is going to be done to vulnerable people or whether the public conversation will become meaner and coarser. We're witnessing it. Elections matter and they matter to you and they matter to your family. We are being tested. And what is remarkable about America is that it gives us the power as citizens to change this country. We all have more power than we sometimes imagine. We just got to use it. So if you believe in that better story of America, you cannot sit this one out.
- [18:52]
Nicole Wallace
As someone who worked on a campaign against him and as someone who is now lucky for me, been on the same side as him. There is, there is no one better. We'll look at the polls on how motivated people are to vote. We have to sneak in a break before we do that, but no one's going anywhere. Also ahead for us today, from bursting people's car windows to deploying chemicals at schools, arresting people in hospitals, the Trump administration says it's just getting started. Just says Donald Trump himself. He said the aggressive ICE tactics being deployed around the country that the public largely disapproves of, quote, haven't gone far enough, end quote. We'll talk more about what that means, plus a closer look at how the Justice Department under the weight of Donald Trump, has had to adjust and has had to reckon with a man who is putting himself and his administration above the rule of law. Two of the best reporters on the beat will join us. And later in the broadcast, another consequential Election Day fight. We'll be watching tomorrow how Democrats have succeeded in fighting back against GOP efforts to rig the game ahead of the midterms. We'll get to all that and much more today when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [19:58]
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- [20:04]
President Barack Obama (voice clips)
Expensive and more complicated than the last. Be pretty stressful.
- [20:09]
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- [20:30]
Claire McCaskill
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- [20:43]
Nicole Wallace
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- [21:10]
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- [21:17]
Nicole Wallace
We're back with Tyler, Minnie, and Claire. So, Tyler, these are the sort of the energy numbers, I think is the best way to read this poll. A year out motivated to vote in 2026 midterms, Democrats and Democratic leaning voters, 67% GOP and GOP leaning voters, 46%. You can read, you know, the country into like an origami, you know, design laid out flat. And if you've got a deficit of 25% in terms of enthusiasm to vote for your side, it doesn't matter if your districts look like the Little Dipper. I mean, you cannot go out and find voters to bridge that gap. What's plan B after they're done rigging the elections?
- [21:59]
Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene
Yeah, I mean, look, the redistricting fight is still underway, and it's unclear exactly how many seats both sides will end up with. You know, we'll see tomorrow if California gets the five that Newsom is pushing. There's a bunch of seats still at play. But, you know, Nicole, you're right. There is an enthusiasm gap at this point, and Democrats are salivating at the opportunity to take back the House. At the same time, we haven't seen President Trump really get out on the campaign trail. He's doing telerally tonight in Virginia and in New Jersey. But there is an expectation that he will play a more forceful role in trying to gin up excitement in a similar way that we saw in 2024 when he was running and framed it as a campaign for his personal freedom and tying that to his own supporters. The message, you know, I'm hearing from sources in the White House is that this is not just about, you know, Republicans keeping the House, but this is about Trump being able to continue to exert control over Congress and execute his agenda. So I think we're expecting to see a more forceful role From Trump, from J.D. vance, from other surrogates. But as you said, Nicole, they are starting at a clear deficit here. And historically, the party in power does not do well at the ballot box for midterm elections. And I think we'll have a better sense of exactly what the landscape looks like tonight or tomorrow when. When we have these election results in some states.
- [23:23]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I mean, I think there's one or two times that a president's party hasn't lost seats in the midterms. But you add to this what Tyler just said, which is really important. He ran for his own freedom. He also promised things that he has now clearly gone back on publicly. He says, in the transition, no Prices aren't basically, things aren't going to come down. The tariffs make all the things go up. The country has not gone along with him. And I think, as we've all seen, with the future of the democracy, of the democratic experiment on the line, it's clear that President Obama is now part of the conversation. And I want to show you I interviewed two of his former senior advisors, Jon Favreau and Tommy Vidor, for the podcast. This is what they said about President Obama's role in this.
- [24:09]
Jon Favreau
Every time he gets back out, like knowing him, every time he gets back out on the trail to campaign, he's really into it. He does not seem like a person who feels like he's been forced to go there. I think he realizes, like very successful Democratic politician, I care a lot about these issues. I care a lot about the country. I care a lot about what's happening to the country right now. I know he's very alarmed at what's happening right now. And I don't think the choice has to be do nothing or get out there every single day and be in Trump's face. There's a whole lot of space in between. His argument is. Or one of his arguments is like he does. He's a, he's a big figure. Right. And every time he gets out there and speaks, it doesn't allow for a new generation of Democrats to go out there and sort of grab the spotlight. And that is true in a sense, but in a vacuum, which is when we're in right now, I think we need every voice.
- [25:06]
Nicole Wallace
What do you think?
- [25:07]
Minnie Timaraju
So most of the, the expected 2028 field has actually been campaigning in these states. We've seen, you know, Pritzker more. I mean, Newsom's been obviously focused on California, but you've seen a lot of them and their proxies. And what we think is going to already be shaping up is, I think, a really robust primary with some of the most exciting talent we've seen in generations for the Democratic Party. So I think Obama will always be that person who is able to bring the independents and that Obama coalition together. But there's a lot exciting voices out there campaigning. My governor, Wes Moore, was out there just recently, this weekend, I think, with both Abigail and Mikey. So we're going to see, I think, a lot of engagement, enthusiasm, but it's also important for them to show their value and to show that they can talk to independent voters and not just the Democratic base. So I think there's a ton of opportunity. It's always Great to have Barack Obama, particularly since we're having this fight about the ACA in health care. I think it really does bring home to folks. What do think you you voting for? You want this legacy, right? You want what's been proven to be successful. And what are you going to lose if we let these Republicans steal our election?
- [26:18]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. I mean, the benefit of having President Obama out there is that it occupies all of Donald Trump's headspace. I mean, just to pull the curtain back a little bit, I mean, what I understand Donald Trump to be obsessed with in the attempts to prosecute John Brennan and maybe some of the comey obsession, although I don't really know what's in his head on that one, is this desire to describe as criminal conduct the accurate intelligence assessments in 2016. I mean, he's so obsessed with Obama at every level that it seems that whatever role President Obama plays, he occupies all of Donald Trump's headspace.
- [26:56]
Claire McCaskill
Yeah, it's very. I think, first of all, this is a guy who's living in safe space that he has designed. Protected by his ego. Yeah, yeah, he's protected by his ego and the spineless minions he has surrounded himself with. So they're telling him every day how wonderful he is and governments are giving him gold crowns and he is the best. And so when Obama hits the stage, it's gotta be jarring to him that somebody that is respected around the world and in this country by independent voters and maybe not as much by Republicans, but certainly the majority of Americans, I think, see Barack Obama as somebody that's worthy of respect. I think it probably gets to him. Right. And if he wants to prove that the whole thing about the Russian hoax, you know, he's got this problem, and that's one of his candidates to replace him. That's Marco Rubio. Marco Rubio's name is on the report. Report from the Senate Intelligence Committee saying, yes, he's the chairman.
- [28:05]
Nicole Wallace
He's the chairman of that committee.
- [28:07]
Claire McCaskill
He and Mark Warner together issued a scathing report that, yes, the Russians were trying to influence our elections to favor Donald Trump.
- [28:18]
Minnie Timaraju
Period.
- [28:18]
Claire McCaskill
End of discussion. And by the way, Marco Rubio is going to have to explain that at some point in time if he thinks he's going to step into the massively small, tiny shoes of Donald Trump.
- [28:32]
Nicole Wallace
All right, we'll leave it massively small and tiny. Tyler Pager, thank you for your reporting from the White House and for starting us off today. Minnie and Claire, stick around tomorrow at 7pm Eastern. I'll be here along with all of my friends and colleagues for special election night coverage. It's tomorrow night at 7:00pm Eastern, right here on MSNBC. After the break, Donald Trump says his aggressive immigration raids that you see all over the news and social media are just getting started. What that means? What does that even mean at this point?
- [29:02]
Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene
That's next.
- [29:05]
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- [29:11]
President Barack Obama (voice clips)
Expensive and more complicated than the last.
- [29:14]
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- [29:35]
Claire McCaskill
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- [29:53]
Nicole Wallace
You know what's more nerve wracking than.
- [29:55]
Dara Lind
Waiting for qualifying results?
- [29:56]
Nicole Wallace
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- [30:09]
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- [30:18]
Nicole Wallace
On Friday, residents of Evanston, Illinois took to the streets to protest after yet another violent assault by ICE agents. Shocking video captured an ICE agent repeatedly punching a man in the head as the agents have him pinned down on the street, his face down. Doesn't look like he represents much of a threat in that position to anybody. Your taxpayer dollars, folks. The man pinned down is telling the agents in that moment that he cannot breathe. The situation quickly escalated from there, with officers punching an onlooker who approached the officers and then another agent pointing a gun toward the crowd. Three US Citizens were arrested here. It is just the latest. Just the latest. And there are so many. It is just the latest incident of what seems like disproportionate, I think it's fair to say, unjustified use of violence on the part of ICE toward U.S. citizens. The LA Times is reporting that a U.S. citizen was shot in the back by ICE agents near Los Angeles. The Times writes this, quote, leaving his home in Ontario to work at a food bank. Thursday morning, Carlos Jimenez pulled over to warn a group of federal agents that they should wrap up their stop of a car quickly because school aged children would soon gather there to take the bus. That's what his lawyer said Sunday. Quote, in the following moments, the attorney said an ICE agent shot him, Jimenez, a U.S. citizen and father of three, from behind. All of this in service of Donald Trump and his wildly unpopular mass deportation scheme. But now Trump says that these acts, these violent tactics used in Evanston, near Los Angeles by ICE agents, quote, haven't gone far enough. That's despite the evidence that the majority of people arrested have no criminal records. Take a look.
- [32:18]
Claire McCaskill
Have some of these raids gone too far?
- [32:20]
Nicole Wallace
No, I think they haven't gone far enough because we've been held back by.
- [32:24]
President Barack Obama (voice clips)
The judges, by the liberal judges that were put in by Biden and by Obama.
- [32:29]
Claire McCaskill
You're okay with those tactics?
- [32:31]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, because you have to get the people out. For the record, there are some judges appointed by Donald Trump who've objected to some of the things he's done in the bucket of immigration enforcement. Joining our coverage is senior fellow at the American Immigration Council, Dara Lind. Minnie and Claire are still with us.
- [32:47]
Minnie Timaraju
Dara.
- [32:50]
Nicole Wallace
What can you tell us about whether or not there's any accountability for the acts of really brutal physical handling of either people suspected of being here illegally or American citizens who are being targeted by ice?
- [33:10]
Dara Lind
So I want to start actually by saying that I know that we've kind of all been using ICE casually as a synonym for anyone who's doing immigration enforcement right now. It's actually very important that there are multiple agencies involved. And the reason it's very important is because last week there was a major purge at ICE with a lot of career ICE officials taken out of leadership roles and a lot of Border Patrol and Customs and Border Protection officials being put into oversee ICE offices in their place. The reason that that's really important, a lot of the most aggressive tactics we've seen have been from Border Patrol. That Evanston video that we showed earlier, that was you actually saw the U.S. border Patrol patch on the sleeve of the man who was pinning down that protesting US Citizen. So it's not just that there isn't a whole lot of interest in holding agents accountable, but that there is affirmative rewarding of the agency that's been engaging in the most aggressive tact.
- [34:11]
Nicole Wallace
So, Tara, to your point, let me read you this from NBC's reporting about what happened in Chicago On Halloween, quote, the Halloween immigration enforcement operation began a few hours before trick or treating started Friday, just steps from Chute Middle School. Quote, it was awful. There were ICE agents and Customs and Border Patrol cbp, you're talking about right now, agents pointing guns at community members. Pepper spray in the face of, of community members within eyesight of our Shute Middle School students. And that is not okay. That was Allie Harnett, a Shute Middle School social worker. Neighbors in the area began shouting and blowing whistles. Quote, they were brutalizing people who were yelling at them. It's legal to yell in America. That was Evanston Mayor Daniel Biss. I lived in Evanston. The idea of this brutal sort of occupation by Customs Border Patrol agents there alongside ICE agents in Evanston, Evanston seems so, just wildly jarring to what life had to have been like there a year ago on Halloween. What is the reason for their presence in Evanston? Why is Evanston being targeted?
- [35:21]
Dara Lind
So I think that it's not necessarily that Evanston is being targeted per se. I think that this is all a little bit downstream of the decision to go after Chicago and the Chicago area. In any metropolitan area, there are going to be some outlying suburbs where you're going to have, you know, the local mayor, the local law enforcement more resistant and therefore maybe you want to put up more of a fight. You're also going to have some where you're going to have local law enforcement willing to help you out. And so that's a place where you can quietly get your numbers up. The Trump administration in this iteration is much more interested in the former than the latter. They appear to want these very confrontational visuals. They appear to want the, you know, they want people shouting them down so that they can say that they're fighting the enemy with it. And I think that, that as much as, if not more than any actual immigration policy objective is what's driving what's going on in Chicago right now.
- [36:16]
Nicole Wallace
So, Dara, what does it mean then, if that's where we are right now, that Donald Trump said in an interview last night that they don't, quote, go far enough?
- [36:25]
Dara Lind
I mean, I think that to a certain extent that's just a, that that may very well just be a knee jerk response to of course he's not going to ground on this. We have absolutely seen that, even more so than under the first Trump administration. There is no interest in this administration to dialing things back just because they appear to be unpopular with the public. They appear to be convinced that anyone who really matters in The United States already agrees with them and that it doesn't particularly concern them if other people are being radicalized against them. But I do think that it's not, you know, not for nothing that even though, though a lot of this is about the flashiness and the show of force and the optics, that there are real people who are being caught up in this and that the more people who are, you know, not just aggressively arrested, but detained in facilities where their loved ones may not be able to locate them for several days, who are subject to deportation without a court hearing, who are subject to deportation to countries that they don't know anything about. You know, even if those are all happening because Donald Trump wants his sizzle reel, they're happening to real people, and they're happening to real families and American communities.
- [37:31]
Nicole Wallace
I want to ask both of you guys about the dehumanization that had to take place for us to even have a conversation like this. I have to sneak in a quick break first. We'll all be right back on the other side. We're all back. I mean, Claire, I want to ask you to pick up on the immigration political piece, which obviously we focus a lot on the human toll and all of the dehumanization that happened in our politics ahead of Donald Trump's rally, featuring people waving around their mass deportation now signs even. I sat at this set together, watching it. The first time I saw it, I was shocked. But even as someone covering it, it became the thing that you saw at the Republican Convention over those four nights. Here's what Jon Favreau said in the same interview about dehumanization and this, this word that I invented for the purposes of conversation, rehumanization.
- [38:25]
Jon Favreau
Rehumanization is actually, that needs to be a goal of ours now because we are dealing with an authoritarian threat where they are trying to dehumanize people. Look, there isn't a difference between people saying, I support tighter border security, more asylum restrictions, no public benefits at all for noncitizens. I'm not surprised that those things are popular. Those things are not. Do you support federal agents, masked armed federal agents in the street shooting pepper balls at priests, breaking people's ribs and disappearing people. And I get that there's not a lot of research about those polling questions because it hasn't happened in the country before. So, like, we're sort of, we're operating as if, like it's normal times, and it's not. And I do think that, like, if the, if the polling and the strategy started reflecting what's actually happening. I think you would see that more people would be appalled by this if you asked them.
- [39:22]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, the other part of it is I think you would see that Democrats are on the right side of all the immigration questions actually before the country. And Democrats have been in a defensive crouch around questions around the border and whether people here illegally receive federal benefits. They don't. But on this question of disappearing people, the Democrats are on the right side of history. People being disappeared without receiving due process by men. And I've seen very few women in masks has about a 5% approval, actually about a 10% approval rating. I mean, that is an issue where Democrats could speak about immigration and stand with the vast majority of Americans.
- [39:58]
Claire McCaskill
And I think you're going to, I think you'll see that in the, in the presidential campaign that is going to happen over the next several years. I do think there is a small sliver of the country that thinks it's a great idea to get anybody out of this country that doesn't look like them. And those people think Donald Trump is just the best thing that's ever happened. I think one of the cracks that may occur, you have the Marjorie Taylor Greene, you have a small community in rural Missouri where a woman that everybody loved at church and was a waitress was swept up when she was, you know, a valuable member of their community. They all know that happened in that small town. Once again, getting back to these small towns where there's a lot of Latina and Hispanic people that have come to this country and lived here for generations and they're being tormented. So I think the crack may be around the faith community. Before this is all said and done. We all have, frankly, stood in abject horror watching the twisting of the New Testament around some of Trump's policies. I don't know if you can twist it so far that you're, you know, using chemicals in grade schools and raiding churches and raiding hospitals and catching people when they come to court to do what they're supposed to do to stay in this country legally. I don't think that the evangelical community should stand for that. And I think the faith community over the next couple of years, you see the Pope doing it, but you need to see a lot more than the Pope. You need to see the American bishops, you need to see the leaders of all the major denominations. You need to see the Jewish and the Muslim communities. They all need to come together and say, you know what? This is not how we treat our fellow man. This is not what we do. And I think it could be powerful if somebody uses it the right way. I think it could be a very powerful pushback on what is a very shameful episode in our country.
- [42:06]
Nicole Wallace
Well, you've also got the people who think they care about law and order. The people getting rounded up in court are the law and order, asylum seekers and immigrants. I mean, they are the people who have such reverence for our laws and our order that they have gone to court and that is where they've been rounded up and disappeared from.
- [42:26]
Minnie Timaraju
But this is so, it's so important that you were talking about dehumanization. And I just have to take a step back and say it has happened in our country before, actually many times more recently. You know, comes to mind what happened to Japanese Americans in World War II. So we have a history actually of demonizing immigrants. Sometimes even Democrats do it right. We're casual about it. When you say illegal versus undocumented, you know, and then we have folks say, don't tone police folks. That's a turnoff. But actually words mean something. And we casually allow for demonization of communities over long periods of time. People, innocent people get caught in the net and it allows for, frankly, this monster in the White House to go after our communities. You know, I'm a first generation immigrant and I'm traveling with my passport everywhere I go in my purse. You know.
- [43:20]
Nicole Wallace
When did you start doing that?
- [43:22]
Minnie Timaraju
As soon as Trump got elected. And I started getting harassing calls at my house.
- [43:26]
President Barack Obama (voice clips)
House.
- [43:27]
Minnie Timaraju
So. Which I know you've had. I know you've had. We've all. Anyone in the public space who criticizes Donald Trump has to be concerned. But also when there were ice raids just down the street from me in the Maryland suburbs of Washington, D.C. so I just think historically we need to be, we need to be a little, we need to own it. We're part of the problem and going forward we can absolutely be part of the solution. As you said, rehumanize.
- [43:55]
Nicole Wallace
Thank you for sharing that about your passport. You've given me a pit in my stomach that belongs there. Dara, thank you for sort of ballasting us to all of the facts and all the best information at your disposal. We appreciate you. Minnie and Claire, thank you. We appreciate you for being here for the whole hour. For more from Jon Favreau and his co founder of Crooked Media and co host of Pod Save America Talk, Tommy Vidor, check out this week's episode of the Best People podcast. Scan the QR code on your screen to listen or download it. Wherever you get your podcasts you can also subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access to future episodes. Take a listen, let me know what you think on Instagram or Blue sky and I'll write you back if I see it. Another break for us. We'll be right back. An important update this afternoon FOR THE those 42 million Americans who rely on SNAP food assistance for their next meal for the family. In response to a federal judge's ruling, the Trump administration said today in court filings that it would tap into contingency funds to restore partial benefits, about half of the total needed. And just for this month. It's a meager improvement for families like these relying now on food banks during the government shutdown. Here's what that looked like in front of Louisiana Food pantry today. About 50 cars waiting in line. Our MSNBC colleagues there observed people wearing veterans hats as well as parents with infants and toddlers. We will, of course, stay on top of this story. Look at that.
- [45:26]
President Barack Obama (voice clips)
Wow.
- [45:26]
Nicole Wallace
What a shame in America in 2025. After the break, a closer look into Donald Trump's Justice Department and what is really taking place inside of it. The next hour of Deadline Whitehouse starts after quick break.
- [45:40]
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President Barack Obama (voice clips)
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