← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
“Artists bail on Trump’s ‘Freedom 250’ Concert Series”
00:42:28
June 1, 2026; 5pm: Nicolle Wallace and friends cover Trump’s social media meltdown over artists bailing on his Freedom 250 concert series. Later, Oliver Darcy joins Nicolle to talk about the internal turmoil at CBS News’ “60 Minutes” with correspondent Scott Pelley blasting his bosses Bari Weiss and David Ellison, accusing them of hollowing the news show out.
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- [00:00]
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- [01:02]
Comedian/Political Satirist
We have the right, guaranteed by the Constitution to criticize and satirize our leaders. This is a right that many of us take for granted. It's one that I took for granted for the first 57 years of my life until September of last year. We will not stand by when comedy and journalism and dissent are censored and regulated and criminalized. Thank you to Donald Trump, our commander and thief, Abraham Lincoln, Orange, Julius Caesar, Greedy McGolfey, Dopey McGropey and Pumpkin McPornhumper. Thank you for inspiring us to fight for our freedom of speech.
- [01:47]
Nicole Wallace
Hi again Everybody. It's now 5 o' clock in New York. We didn't even get to him calling Donald Trump Blob the builder and the hungry hungry hypocrite. Jimmy Kimmel accepted a Peabody Award over the weekend on the power of using humor to call out Donald Trump's autocratic impulses and tell the truth about what's happening in our country right now from his very powerful perch. And while Donald Trump has never, ever been accused of making anyone's job easier, except maybe that of the guy that puts gold leaf on everything in the Oval Office. When it comes to using satire to speak truth to power, sometimes Trump does the job for all of us. Over the weekend after artist after artist dropped out of his Freedom 250 concert series, including celebrity Apprentice winner Bret Michaels, Donald Trump took to his favorite social media platform to declare this quote. I understand artists are getting the yips having to do with their performance on Wednesday. So I am thinking about bringing the All Caps number one attraction anywhere in the world. The man who gets much larger audiences than Elvis in his prime. He does so without a guitar. The man who loves our country more than anyone else and the man who some say is the greatest president in history. Switching to All Caps the goat staying in All Caps Donald J. Trump to take the place of these highly paid, capitalized, third rate artists and give a major speech. I only want to be surrounded by happy people, smart people, a lot more odd capitalizations here, successful people and people that know how to win. So by copy of this truth I am ordering my representatives to look at the feasibility of doing and back to All Caps America is back Rally on Wednesday Washington D.C. same place, same location, only great patriots invited. It will be a wild and beautiful celebration of America. President Donald J. Trump will be wild. Last time he said that it was an invitation to come to the Capitol on January 6th. But in that whole you can't break up with me because I'm breaking up with you thing was a little bit of desperation, right? To add insult to injury as Trump fails and flails to keep young MC from running for the hills, Joan Baez has announced that she is the latest superstar to join the Power to the People festival. Curated by Rage against the Machine's Tom Morello, who's been touring with Bruce Springsteen, that event is star studded. It's going to help raise funds for pro democracy causes. It's a festival that will feature Bruce Springsteen, Public Enemy, the Foo Fighters, Dave Matthews and many more legit superstars and icons.
- [04:56]
Interjecting Commentator
And it's sold out.
- [04:58]
Nicole Wallace
Don't tell Donald. And don't worry, Trump still has the CNC Music Factory guy. I think Heilman will tell me if that's not the case anymore. Donald Trump throwing an absolute hissy fit as one hit wonder after one hit wonder flees his MAGA jamboree is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. Huck News senior political columnist and national affairs analyst John Heilman is back with us. Heilman, I felt like we had to update this story from where we were on Friday when you informed me about some of the social media posts that I had missed. This story got a lot worse for Donald Trump such that he posted this. I now at least three times a week take a Trump Post and ask to verify it to make sure it's real and not. And it used to be like half of them were real and Some of them were just floating around. Now they're all real and they're all absolutely bat bleep crazy.
- [06:00]
John Heilman
Right. Well, look in that, the post that you just read, Nicole, there was one shred of truth in it, and that I think is very high ratio for most Trump social media posts. He said that, you know, the acts that were, that were getting the yips, Donald Trump understands the entirety of the world through the prism of golf. The yips is basically a golf term. He said they were all third rate entertainers. I think that's kind of right. That's right. You know, the problem for him, of course, that the third rate entertainers are abandoning him and the second rate entertainers would never even consider coming. And the first rate entertainers are all going to be at Meriwether post pavilion on October 3rd with my friend Tom Morello and our mutual hero, Bruce Springsteen.
- [06:52]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, Helmut, I sort of want to pull the curtain back, though, and explain and I want to say that we've been joined in our conversation by the executive editor of Deadline.com, dominic Patton, who I've turned to for all these conversations. Really, for the last year and a half, I have bemoaned and I've interviewed Joan Baez. You know, where is culture? And she talked about, she said to me this moment is scarier than it was when she was and I'll quote her when she said we were standing with Martin and we were there. She said we were together, we had the culture, we had the music, we had each other. And she said to me, I interviewed her about a year ago, this moment is worse. This moment feels scarier. It feels like, and I haven't talked to her recently, but it feels like that is starting to turn, that there is starting to be some safety in numbers in culture and art. There's still a lot of people, far too many, in my opinion, who are staying silent. But I think this story is a window into something we don't often get to see, and that is that no one prominent, respectable in art wants to stand with Donald Trump. And many are happy now, maybe not happy, but are willing to stand against him. Dominic?
- [08:11]
Dominic Patton
Well, I'd say, Nicole, for one thing, I find myself in the rare position of quoting Vanilla Ice, of all people. I heard a piece with Vanilla Ice recently where he talked about because he's one of the few artists who's staying in with the Trump Fest. And he said, I'll play for Putin, I'll play in Iran. And I thought, well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. You would, you would do exactly that. And that's where I think the dividing line is coming. The people who will do that and the people who won't. You know, when you talked about Joan Baez, who's obviously, as we know, performing with Tom and with Bruce and everybody else, you know, these are people who back then I think we had a much more monoculture, for lack of a better expression. The fracture we see in culture now has for so long allowed people like the MAGA crowd to divide. That I feel is changing. I feel that there are number of moves happening here. I mean, look, man, when Bret Michaels drops out, you know, the national nightmare is over. So at that point, I think we know where the tide is turning here. And also, let's be honest, Tom and Bruce have way cooler people showing up. I mean, John was right. Trump referred to them as like, you know, third Raiders. But Powell, you picked them. That's your crowd.
- [09:19]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, yeah. I mean, Halman. I feel like the political significance is in something that people are gonna forget really quickly. But part of what was happening when Paul Weiss was capitulating to Donald Trump, literally bending the knee in the Oval Office, followed by half a dozen other law firms, while smaller ones fought it even though they prevailed in court, happened at the same time that the most prestigious universities in the country were capitulating. It happened at the same time that the Tech Bros were proudly broadcasting their shoulder to shoulder presence with Donald Trump. Bezos making movies about Melania. I don't know. Doing what? Modeling? I don't know. I never caught it. The vibes felt. The vibes made Trump 2.0 feel unstoppable. Coupled with the Project 2025 momentum, the silencing of culture mattered. It mattered because anywhere you looked, other than this network in the Atlantic and the New York Times, there was nothing really pushing back against all of that. The significance of not being able to attract stars and then some of the biggest stars in music being down, as you said, down the road feels like the vibes are gone. How do you see that and do you see that?
- [10:36]
John Heilman (continued)
Well, I do.
- [10:36]
John Heilman
I mean, look, let's be clear. Donald Trump could never attract the stars. And you know, I said this on the show on Friday. It's like if you go back and look at the, at the entertainment at, at the Republican national convention in 2024, at that final big Trump rally in Madison Square Garden in October, early November of 2024, these were not, this was not a list material. Even then. You know, Kid Rock was the biggest Republican National Convention. Tony Hinchcom, the, the now much, much derided comedian who got his, his, all I could say, I think I say his ass handed to him by Chelsea Handler at the Kevin Hart roast was the big comedic talent. I mean it's not like he had Dave Chappelle up there. It's not like he had Kevin Hart up there at the Massacre Garden rally. So Trump's not ever drawn. And Republicans, as you know, Nicole, have typically had trouble. I mean Hollywood is basically liberal, Dominic will attest, and the entertainment industry is basically liberal. That's all true.
- [11:32]
John Heilman (continued)
I think that the, that, that this,
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John Heilman
when you, it's getting, as I said it last week, when the bottom of the barrel is not like these are
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John Heilman (continued)
people who would put up a YouTube
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John Heilman
channel and would be happy with like a thousand 1500 views. A lot of these people on their, on their videos and they're being offered a chance to be on national television, at least on cable tv, on some
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John Heilman (continued)
of the right wing networks, and an
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John Heilman
audience bigger at the White House than they would have seen around the mall,
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John Heilman (continued)
wherever this is going to be, than
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John Heilman
they have seen at any live event they've done in many, many, many years. And yet they think that Trump is so toxic that they're going to pass on that opportunity. That is a sign that something has shifted because that was not the vibe around Donald Trump when that you were describing at the early phases of 2025
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John Heilman (continued)
where it wasn't like the stars were flocking to him, but there was a
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John Heilman
cadre of people, as you said, in the bro culture world who were willing to stand alongside of him.
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John Heilman (continued)
And, and there wasn't a sense that
- [12:29]
John Heilman
of toxicity in the way there is now. The one thing I will say though, and I would love to hear Dominic talk about this, but it's like the Joan Baez thing really points to something
- [12:38]
John Heilman (continued)
important, which is that people who were
- [12:40]
John Heilman
on the streets in the 1960s did not think that the government was fundamentally fascist. They, they thought that, that, that the Vietnam War was wrong. They thought that civil rights had to be fought for, but they thought that their pressure could move the government. And one of the reasons why I think Joan thought, and maybe still thinks
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John Heilman (continued)
that this, this moment is more dangerous and feels worse, is that there's not
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John Heilman
that same faith that public pressure will cause the administration to change its plans. And the other thing, and this is the thing I meant for Dominic, is
- [13:08]
John Heilman (continued)
it is still the case that at
- [13:10]
John Heilman
the major streaming networks and in the technology industry, some of the most powerful
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John Heilman (continued)
public facing industries in the country There is still terror in the hearts of
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John Heilman
the people who run those networks about
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John Heilman (continued)
doing anything or putting anything on the
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John Heilman
air that will upset Donald Trump.
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John Heilman (continued)
So that is still a place where the culture, the celebrities, the entertainers, the comedians, the rock stars, there is a change there.
- [13:35]
John Heilman
But at the corporate level, it continues to be the case that there is a lot of fear and a lot of intimidation and a lot of cowardice on the part of the people who run media and entertainment in America right now.
- [13:47]
Nicole Wallace
Let me ask you to deal with that, Dominic, but let me add one more piece of sound and let you deal with both. The outlier then is Jimmy Kimmel. Here's more of what he said. Last night,
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Comedian/Political Satirist
the FCC delivered a very unpleasant surprise. But then I experienced something that surprised me even more. I watched as millions of people, even some from across the aisle, objected. They spoke up, they marched. They canceled their subscriptions to Star wars because they refused to allow our freedoms to be bulldozed like the east wing
- [14:21]
John Heilman
of the White House.
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Comedian/Political Satirist
They sent a message. You sent a message that we do care and that we will stand up.
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Nicole Wallace
I mean, Kimmel's. Kimmel's been spot on. I think his ratings are higher than they've ever been. I think late night is playing a role. It's always been important. I watched it in the White House and my old boss was not popular with any of the hosts on any of the shows. But I thought it was so important to know. I stayed up and watched Letterman every night to know what he was saying. I think that he's making an important business point, though, that this admin that I think encapsulates the extremism of the Trump era and I think dovetails to Heilman's point. The government is now so extreme and it's anti free speech postures that it's activating against itself members of its own coalition.
- [15:10]
Dominic Patton
Well, I agree, and I would say, John, as one Wu Tang fanatic to another, I appreciate your statement, but I respectfully disagree. I think corporate America is starting to turn and I'll tell you where. And it actually has to do with Jimmy Kimmel. With Jimmy is Recently, the FCC decided to go on another war path against Disney and they decided to suddenly start pulling early license renewals against the Maus House. And they expected that they were going to probably get a lot of cowering and begging and pleading. But the new Disney CEO said no. He said no. You want to look at these? Fine. We'll put all the documents in we want. But we know perfectly well that this is political and we know perfectly well what you're doing. And they held that stance. There's been no stepping back or standing down on this. And I think they're finally saying enough is enough because ultimately, MAGA is bad for business. You know, some of the greatest changes in American society, for all the marches, for all the wonderful songs that Joan Baez, Bob Dylan, Paul Robson and many others saying, a lot of it happens when you follow the money, when you discover that the African American community is a major consumer, when you discover the gay and lesbian community are major consumers. You're making money off these people and you want them to continue to buy your products. And I think what we saw out of what happened to Jimmy last fall, we've seen a slight change happening now. It's small and certainly no one down at Paramount's doing it, but it's happening, I think in little increments. And those small changes can start turning everyone away from the iceberg. At least, you know, that's my moment of optimism for a Monday.
- [16:40]
Nicole Wallace
I'll go with you. But at least we all agree there's an iceberg. Speaking of icebergs, when we come back, a revolt inside 60 Minutes where longtime correspondent Scott Pelley accused his MAGA friendly boss, Bari Weiss of quote, murdering, murdering. The iconic 60 Minutes that happened after Barry Weiss fired top producers and reporters will bring you the reporting of that stunning confrontation next. Also had in another garish display of Donald Trump's massive something ego. I guess he's now turned the south lawn of the White House into an actual cage match arena. It is part of his birthday party. I guess pony shows weren't enough when you're 80 and ostensibly part of the country's 250th. We'll explain how he stands to benefit financially. We'll bring you the new reporting on that story later in the hour. DEADLINE White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. I'm Cyndi Lauper with fellow Kasentix advocate chef Michelle Bernstein. We'll share our experiences with plaque psoriasis with psoriatic arthritis. And Dr. Panico will talk about the possible connection.
- [17:53]
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- [18:38]
Oliver Darcy
hey everyone, it's Chris Hayes. This week, my podcast why Is this Happening? The next episode of our special miniseries the AI Endgame. I'm speaking with Timnit Gebru about inequities in artificial intelligence.
- [18:48]
Interjecting Commentator
When we lump all of these things into AI, it just makes the conversation very difficult because when we were talking about the harms of AI, which harms of which AI are we talking about? We're talking about cancer detection with specifically trained image recognition models, or are we talking about mimicking a human, which is a very dangerous thing to do?
- [19:06]
Dominic Patton
Why is this happening? The AI Endgame Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [19:14]
Nicole Wallace
Long time highly respected 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Peli today blasted efforts by his bosses Bari Weiss and David Ellison to hollow out the iconic, hugely successful, critically and commercially CBS News show 60 Minutes. In this time, in this moment that we've been talking about, it is an extraordinary thing to confront anybody. And it happened earlier today in a meeting with the 60 Minute staff. Status News reports this quote, Peli started grilling Bari Weiss's handpicked new executive producer of the program, Nick Bilton, about what he dubbed Black Thursday, referencing the day last week in which Bari Weiss carried out mass firings, terminating Tonya Simon as executive producer, ousting Sharon Alfonsi and Cecilia Vega as correspondents. Quote, she's murdering 60 Minutes. She does not love this place. She was brought in to kill it and she's doing exactly that. In the meeting, Scott Pelley pointed out that Bari Weiss has, quote, no qualifications for her job and told Bilton, the new guy, quote, you have slender qualifications for this job. Pelly, the former anchor of CBS Evening News, noted that the changes Bari Weiss has made to that program, quote, have been catastrophic. He went on, quote, so why should we expect any of this is going to be any better? Scott Pelley asked Bilton. Charles Farrell, a top vice deputy and managing editor of CBS News, interjected. Then telling Scott Pelley that he was being, quote, rude, he said this, quote, this is not actually productive. Quote, this is not an interview. Pelly shot back, quote, it's working for me. Anybody came into our house. This is 60 Minutes. Scott Pelley Added, quote, I guess you wandered in expecting to read a statement off, end quote. The veteran newsman then told Bilton and Pharrell that the way management handling the firings was, quote, cruel. Pharrell, the guy on the evening news side, interjected again, responded again by calling Scott Pelley, quote, rude. Pelly shot back, quote, I'm not being rude. I have some pretty, you know what was rude? Black Thursday. That was the absolute definition of rudeness. Pelly said, quote, telling Tonya Simon she had to be out of the building at 5 o', clock, sending Dragan Malovich to HR to get fire because nobody could look him in the eye. Not talking about Tanya's contract, not talking about Sharon Alfonsi's contract, not talking about Cecilia Vega's contract, just calling them up and telling them they were fired. That is rude. This is a conversation that is rude. And you were a part of that, end quote. Joining us at the table, the journalist who has that extraordinary history in the making moment exclusively, Oliver Darcy. He reported on that confrontation at 60 Minutes and his newsletter status, which covers all things media. John and Dominic are still with me. First of all, congratulations. I mean, I feel like I am in the right to say that I have covered everything that you've unearthed. And this feels like the biggest moment in this. I'm from California, so I always make tectonic plate references. But, you know, if the first burst and quake was the hiring of Bari Weiss, this feels like the biggest rupture since she landed there.
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Oliver Darcy
This almost feels like the big one.
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Nicole Wallace
I agree. I agree.
- [23:03]
Oliver Darcy
Yeah, analogies. Listen, I've been reporting Nicole on media for over a decade. I have covered a lot of backlash that happens in newsrooms, including from this network back when Ronald McDaniel was hired and then summarily dismissed. I can't think of any, anything, anything that is even on the same scale as this. This is something you never see. You do not see a veteran newsman like Scott Pelley, who has worked at CBS News for over three decades, go into a meeting and say that the acting CBS News chief, Bari Weiss, is not qualified for her job and that her boss, Paramount boss David Ellison, brought her in to murder the show. And that is exactly what she is doing. She is murdering CBS News crown jewel, the crown jewel of all of television news, 60 Minutes. You do not see this sort of thing happen. And I think what we're watching right now is 60 minutes in full collapse. And it's not just me saying that, it's Scott Pelley saying she's murdering 60 Minutes. It's Bill Owens, the former executive producer of 60 Minutes, who told me last week they're killing 60 Minutes. It's Steve Kroft, the longtime CBS News journalist and 60 Minutes correspondent, who told me last week that the program, as we know, is dead. This isn't me saying it. This isn't some liberal journalist or woke or whatever like I'm sure Paramount would like to dismiss this criticism as these are well respected people who have worked for CBS News for decades saying that this program is being killed by David Ellison. And the dots they're connecting are not subtle. They're saying that he's doing this so he can take over Warner Brother discovery and get his business transaction cleared by the Trump administration.
- [24:50]
Nicole Wallace
Tell me, just explain to me and our audience the significance and the difference between Scott Pelley doing it from the inside and the statement Sharon Alfonsi made when she sort of knew her fate was, you know, that she that they hadn't renewed her contract. Cecilia Vega had a very pointed statement. Anderson Cooper made a very emotional and powerful statement his last broadcast. Scott Pelley is still inside.
- [25:15]
Oliver Darcy
He's still inside, and I think in many ways he's sort of the face of CBS News. Everyone knows Scott Pelley. He was the anchor of CBS Evening News for a while. He's worked at 60 Minutes for forever, I think, you know, almost as long as I've been alive, he's been on 60 Minutes. Everyone associates CBS News with Scott Pelley. So for Scott Pelley to stand up in this meeting and tell the new executive producer of the show that you have slender qualifications to grill him, to say, were you aware of this stuff? Why did this happen? You have no answers. Why don't you have answers? I mean, it was a very contentious meeting. I obtained the audio to this and I listened to it earlier a few times. It is as explosive of a meeting as I've ever heard. And for Scott Pelley to do this, of all people, I think shows how contentious or how strained the relationship is in the newsroom between Bari Weiss and David Ellison and the journalists who are actually trying to, despite all the turbulence around this company, deliver the news in a truthful way.
- [26:16]
Nicole Wallace
What is your sense of, and I don't know if this is apparent on the audio. I mean, does Scott Pelley, I mean, I don't want to gloss over the fact that he describes the evening news as a complete catastrophe.
- [26:29]
Oliver Darcy
Again, something you don't hear from the former anchor of the CBS Evening News. Also, by the way, today, Dan Rather, the former other Anchor of CBSNB News signed his name on a letter calling for the merger between Warner Brother, Discovery and Paramount to be blocked. I mean, again, I've reported on this stuff for a long time. It is extremely rare for journalists to take these kind of stances. They don't like to be considered to be in the advocacy space. But I think they all feel this is very important. And that's why you have, I mean, someone like Anderson Cooper delivering remarks, saying not so subtle ways to management, leave your hands off 60 minutes. Sharon Alfonsi, Cecilia Vega, Bill Owens, Steve Kroft, Scott Pelley. These are not names who just go out there and criticize the institution for the hell of it. They think that it is dying before us and they're sounding the alarm.
- [27:21]
Nicole Wallace
Not dying, being murdered.
- [27:22]
Oliver Darcy
Being murdered.
- [27:22]
Nicole Wallace
Being murdered in the name of by David Ellison.
- [27:26]
Oliver Darcy
No one should forget that this is Bari Weiss doing it. But David Ellison over at Paramount is allowing this to happen and he is not commenting. And I think that's something that's going left unsaid. He's not in the headlines. Barry Weiss normally is. He hired Bari Weiss and according to Scott Pelley, not me, she was brought in to kill the show to murder. That's what she's doing.
- [27:47]
Nicole Wallace
And none of this happens in a vacuum. This is happening as part of the story. We started the hour with Donald Trump's rampage against the First Amendment. We'll bring our other friends in and talk, talk about these forks in the roads for democracies under great strain. Don't go anywhere. We're back with Oliver Darcy, John Heilman and Dominic Patton. I want to read more from this extraordinary reporting and then I want to bring John and Dominique in. This is from the audio. Quote, this is Scott Pelley. What was wrong with Sharon Alfonsi, one of the 60 Minutes correspondence, who was fired. As Bilton started to say he would defer, Pelly interrupted. This is not the crowd to dodge. Nick Bilton insisted he wasn't dodging. Nobody talked to you about that? Peli continued pressing him on the firing. They're taking away one of your correspondence and nobody mentioned to you what was wrong with Sharon Alfonsi. Nick Bilton acknowledged that he, quote, had conversations with people. Question what came of those conversations? Scott Pelley asked. They are private conversations. Nick Bilton reiterated that he, quote, did not fire Sharon Alfonsi or Cecilia Vega. So he doesn't want to be stained with the stench of firing Alfonso or Vega. But who is he?
- [29:03]
Oliver Darcy
I mean, he accepted the job. He's the new Executive producer.
- [29:06]
Nicole Wallace
The job is he fired two award winning correspondents for no reason.
- [29:09]
Oliver Darcy
And it should have been an obvious question. In fact, I've been trying, I would love to talk to Nick Bilton where one, I think I might be the only media reporter on planet Earth. He hasn't called yet. But that was one of my questions was what do you think about the firings of Sharon Alfonse and Cecilia Vega? Do you agree with them and why do you think they should have been fired? It sounds like he doesn't want to answer those very obvious questions. And the fact that he would go before the 60 Minute staff and not have answers ready for. I mean that.
- [29:34]
Nicole Wallace
Just let me ask a more basic question. I mean, and let me ask you this, Almond. How do you lead a group of journalists you can't measure up to as a subject of an interview from Scott Pelley?
- [29:48]
John Heilman (continued)
Nicole, I think the question answers itself. You can't is the answer. And, and I think, you know, I don't want to be parochial. I, I have worked in magazines, I've worked at newspapers, I have worked on cable television, I've worked on streaming television. I've done it all. And so there's no, you don't need to have television background to, to, to make, to, to run it to. You don't need to have television background to be a success in television. You can transition from one to, from one field to another. It is very hard to walk into 60 Minutes, a program founded almost 60 years ago in 1968 that has been the crown jewel not just of CBS News, but the crown jewel of television news essentially since the moment it was founded. And that at a time when linear television, we'll leave cable news aside for the moment. But linear news, broadcast news is struggling with a profound secular decline. A show that continues to put up better numbers year after year. Not. This is not a show in decline. This is an anomalous show. A show that is so powerful and has done so much work and established such a beachhead and not just over at 60, near 50s, eight year career history, but in the last couple of years has run up its best numbers ever that if to come into that show. And again, I don't know, Nick Bilton, I'm not, I'm not trashing the guy, I'm just saying I can remember when
- [31:22]
John Heilman
I first started doing television and if
- [31:24]
John Heilman (continued)
someone had come to me and said, hey man, you're a pretty good magazine journalist, you've written some books, how'd you like to run 60 minutes? I would have Said, are you out of your effing mind? I'm not qualified to run that show. That this show is, you know, that, that you were walking into. It's a suicide mission for someone like that to walk into this, to this environment. And the other thing I'll say so I think Nick Bilton, this is a poison chalice. Again, I don't know the guy. He doesn't sound like he's handling this particularly well. But I don't think the best person with no television background, given this job, was going to be faded to succeed in it. And the second thing I'll say, and I want to credit Oliver for this, but he hasn't done enough to, to highlight one quote from his newsletter last week. He mentioned Steve Croft. But the Steve Croft quote is really pretty. I would pop when I saw it last Friday. It popped out of me. He said, since I retired, I often. Croft stopped at 60 Minutes in 2019. He said, since I retired, I often wondered what would happen to 60 Minutes. But I never expected it would be executed by the President of the United States. And that's the one thing that we're leaving we're talking about. David Ellison is to blame. Yes. Barry Weiss is to blame. Yes. But you know who's really to blame here? Donald Trump. And that brings it back to, to
- [32:40]
John Heilman
the, to the, to the top of
- [32:41]
John Heilman (continued)
our discussion, Nicole, that, that is the thing. You know, there's no one forcing David
- [32:46]
John Heilman
Ellison to capitulate to Donald Trump, but
- [32:48]
John Heilman (continued)
Donald Trump has made it very clear to all these people that capitulation is what's required in order to do business and to be able to make mergers happen. So that his Croft goes on to say there is no conclusive DNA testing, but Donald Trump's fingerprints are all over this, this murder of 60 Minutes.
- [33:04]
John Heilman
And I think it's important to remind
- [33:05]
John Heilman (continued)
people that it's not just the cowardice
- [33:07]
John Heilman
of David Ellison and, and the, the ham handedness of Barry Weiss and whatever, whatever Bilton brings to the table.
- [33:14]
John Heilman (continued)
This is the work of Donald J. Trump.
- [33:17]
Nicole Wallace
This is the work of Donald J. Trump. Dominic and I've said this for nine years, Donald Trump doesn't get out of the bathroom from what she tweets without the enablers. And in this story, the enabler is the son of a rich guy who's funded Republicans since I was one. And I wonder how insulated the rich kids of the Republican donors are that they don't mind murdering the most iconic news program this country has ever known for a guy at 32% in the polls.
- [33:51]
Dominic Patton
Well, one thing, Nicole, I mean, the problem with this, and we talked about this last week, is if you can just for a second, strip all the ideology off. This is just bad management. 60 Minutes was not broke. It did not need to be fixed. And to take onto what John was talking about so correctly about its rating success in an era when that's almost an anomaly, it's also had a tremendous success digitally, which is something that all, all outlets aspire to. They want to grow in that arena, what have you. It has. So this is clearly a homicide, and it's a homicide that is based on. Again, I'll defer to John. And by the way, I have to say, Oliver, full respect, great scoop, great scoop. But I have to say, too, like, they are doing this to close a $111 Billion deal. That's what they want to do. They want Warner Brothers discovery. This is tech, bro business. Move fast and break things, and they are breaking them left, right, and center. There isn't much thought, I believe, of what's going to happen next. And again, I, maybe I'm the broken record on this. But here's the thing. Everything comes around like it ain't going to be Trump land forever. And once all the, all the carnage is put, is. Is taken off the streets and the buildings and the institutions are rebuilt, these guys, well, hopefully this will end up just being like that infamous season 11 of SNL, which was a disaster and almost killed the show, but they got their mojo back. Hopefully that's where this is going, because 60 Minutes has hours left in its lifespan.
- [35:19]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, what happened? You know, networks are propped up by all sorts of people. I mean, Scott Pelley, I believe, is speaking for the newsroom, but there are all sorts of consultants and PR people propping up Barry Weiss. And Nick will probably have his own army of PR people propping him up. At what point do some of those people say, I mean, it isn't worth it to be part of the destruction of 60 Minutes in the news division?
- [35:44]
Oliver Darcy
I'm not sure, but I think you've seen at least some of the journalists. I think that's what actually matters is they're just saying it's not worth it. I'm curious what's gonna happen to Scott Pelli here because he has not quit 60 minutes as long as I, as
- [35:56]
Nicole Wallace
far as I know, since we've been on the air. Yeah, but can they fire him?
- [36:00]
Oliver Darcy
I assume they can. Barry Weiss has fired a lot of people. Barry Weiss was very upset at Anderson Cooper over the good pie package that he made when she subtly said to her, 60 minutes is independence is important.
- [36:13]
Nicole Wallace
Let me just read what he said. There are a few things that have been around for as long as 60 minutes has and maintain the it has. And things can always evolve and change. And I think that's awesome. And things should evolve and change. But I hope the core of what 60 Minutes is always remains. She was upset about that. She was livid about Scott Pelley.
- [36:29]
Oliver Darcy
People associated with that package, that online package were fired last week. She was livid at that. And so she was upset about that. What is she thinking about Scott Pelley and what is she going to do? Is she going to fire Scott Pelley, arguably one of the most iconic 60 Minutes correspondence of all time? That's not a good.
- [36:47]
Nicole Wallace
Will she be more mad that he calls her project, the evening news, a disaster? Will she be more mad that he calls out the firings and the murder of 60?
- [36:54]
Oliver Darcy
I imagine she's probably most mad that he said she that he said she has no qualifications for the job she holds.
- [37:00]
Nicole Wallace
All right. Incredible, incredible reporting. Congratulations on the scoop. We look forward to seeing where this story goes next. From all of you, Oliver Darcy, John Heilman, Dominic Patton, thank you so much for spending time with me today. When we come back, Donald Trump's other big birthday present to himself, the cage fighting thing on the southbound of the White House. That's what that is. I thought it was a roller coaster they were going to put him on, but I've been informed it is not. We'll bring you that story. How bad is it? It's so bad. Joe Rogan isn't into it. That's next. I'm Cyndi Lauper with fellow Kasentix advocate chef Michelle Bernstein. We'll share our experiences with plaque psoriasis with psoriatic arthritis, and Dr. Panico will talk about the possible connection.
- [37:47]
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- [38:32]
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- [38:42]
Nicole Wallace
Every small d Democratic muscle that we have is flexing.
- [38:46]
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- [39:04]
Michelle Bernstein
The White House thing is odd. I don't like it. I don't like the idea of fighting outside at all.
- [39:11]
John Heilman (continued)
There's problems with it.
- [39:12]
Comedian/Political Satirist
And then too many times June and
- [39:14]
Michelle Bernstein
it's D.C. and we looked it up the last time like last year, Same day was 100 degrees.
- [39:19]
Comedian/Political Satirist
Yeah, yeah.
- [39:21]
Bob Costas
Hot.
- [39:21]
Nicole Wallace
As you add the lights.
- [39:23]
Michelle Bernstein
Oh yeah, the lights.
- [39:24]
Dominic Patton
You add the lights, that attracts bugs.
- [39:25]
Michelle Bernstein
How about dehydration? Oh yeah, yeah. The bugs are a big one.
- [39:32]
Nicole Wallace
So if you, like me, are learning some of the specifics here, it is important to know that things can't be great on this story for Donald Trump when he's lost Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan there forecasting the pitfalls and potential for disaster at the UFC 250 MMA fighting event. It is set to take place on the south Lawn of the White House at first on June 14, which is flag Day, which also happens to be the stand in party plan for Trump's 80th birthday. These are images of the monstrosity that has been erected. It is a temporary fighting octagon and stadium that's being erected on the White House grounds. Again, a first. And of course there's potential financial benefit for Donald Trump in this story and in this instance as well. To tell you about, HuffPost reported that Trump purchased somewhere between $15,000 and $50,000 worth of stock in TKO Holdings. That's a parent company that owns the UFC. Trump purchased the stock as he was actively promoting the UFC event at the White House. I want to bring in senior writer Jack Crosby, who's covering this story for Rolling Stone. Also joining us, national sports columnist and professor of journalism at the University of Maryland. Our friend Kevin Blackistone is back. All right, Jack, take me inside. What's going on here and talk to me like I don't know that much about.
- [40:54]
Jack Crosby
So this is an event that's been in the works for about a year, but the relationship between Dana White, the president of the usc, and Donald Trump goes back decades at this point. They became friends in the early 2000s, when Donald Trump kind of gave Dana White a favor and let him host some of his first UFC events at Trump's casinos in Atlantic City. But their relationship really solidified when Dana White introduced Donald Trump at the 2016 Republican National Convention. And that's really when there are sort of political relationship began. But the reason that we're having a fight on the White House grounds is really simple. And it's because Donald Trump loves the ufc and he wants this to happen at the White House, and he wants to have a massive event and as you can see, you know, a massive stage. And he wants this spectacle to take place in somewhere that he very much feels like he owns now.
- [41:50]
Nicole Wallace
So, Kevin, he of course doesn't own the White House. That is the people's. He didn't own the East Wing that he knocked down. And I have to say, it is impressive that he can build. It's an octagon or a hexagon. An octagon.
- [42:04]
Jack Crosby
It's an octagon.
- [42:05]
Nicole Wallace
He can build an octagon because he can't end the war in Iran. He can't lower gas prices, he can't lower coffee, groceries, meat, or eggs, but he can build an octagon.
- [42:18]
Kevin Blackistone
And he also can't put on a great MMA card because some of the better fighters, for whatever reasons, aren't coming here there that had many championship fights. And people who love MMA have really not embraced this particular card. But you know what this is all about, and Jack kind of alluded to it, is Donald Trump's continued compensation through combat sports with his own fragile masculinity. I mean, even before mma, you know, he was. He was tied into and a champion of professional wrestling, which, as we know, is. Is theater. And the McMahons, in his first run for the presidency, were his biggest financial contributors, for which Linda McMahon has been awarded a second cabinet position nowadays. And so for me, as a. As a Washingtonian, this is just another blight on our architectural landscape. I've never seen anything like this at the White House, and it's all behind chain link fences. Now, I should point out that this won't be the first time that sports have been played a professional sport on the White House grounds, per se. Way back in 1865, there was a baseball tournament on what we now call the Ellipse, which back then was the white lot of the. Of the White House. But interestingly enough, Elliot Asinoff, who's written a lot about baseball, pointed out that Baseball was played there because it was a much more pleasant and civilized sporting activity than the other two sports at the time, which were boxing and horse racing. And a lot of people have said that MMA was a combination of boxing and cockfighting. Well, there you go.
- [44:13]
Nicole Wallace
There we are. I'm going to do this on live tv, which makes it hard for you to say no, but I'd love to understand this story better. Especially the military has been brought into this. Washington Post is reporting that Trump's asking for fit troops. They have to have the right, I don't know, hip to waist ratio or something. So can this conversation be continued as we walk up to this spectacle? Jack Crosby, thanks for reporting on this. Kevin Blackistone, thanks for being here today. One more break. We'll be right back. Some things, I would argue a lot of things in politics are just a matter of common sense. That's how my guest this week on the Best People podcast, the legendary sportscaster Bob Costas, looks at what is happening in our country in the news right now. Costas has called balls and strikes throughout his entire illustrious career, and he has a few apt analogies for what the Trump administration is doing right now. Take a listen to what he said about Donald Trump's pressure campaign on the media and about the now dead $1.8 billion slush fund.
- [45:14]
Bob Costas
If you're Paramount and CBS and Paramount, you want to affect a merger and his FCC can stand in the way, then, okay, this is like paying a toll. This is like, you know, you park your car and a kid comes up and says, watch your car. And that really means give me 20 bucks, go in and have dinner. But if you don't give me the 20 bucks, when you come back, your windshield's going to be smashed. O that's what this is. There's not any merit to it. I'm going to sue for $10 billion. The case has zero merit, could never be won. This is like the manager is the umpire in a game in which his team is playing. You know what could be more ridiculous than this? So now we'll settle for 1.7 or $1.8 billion. And this is all happening right in front of us. This is not stuff on which there should be two sides.
- [46:14]
Nicole Wallace
To listen to the entire conversation, scan the QR code on your screen or download the episode. Wherever you get your podcasts, give it a listen. Quick break for us. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes. We are grateful.
- [46:30]
MSNBC Podcast Promoter
Thursday, June 25 Join Rachel Maddow and Ally Velshi in Philadelphia for a dynamic evening. Ms. Now live presents we the People, America 250. Get tickets at Ms. Now, America 250 today.