← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"Cabinet flattery"
00:42:50
4pm, May 27, 2026: Nicolle Wallace on Trump's cabinet meeting this week.
Loading summary
Transcript94 lines
- [00:00]
OnDeck Commercial
Your home holds the story of your life. Renewal by Andersen Windows are built to weather every season with you. They frame the little moments and the big ones, from first steps to graduation to new beginnings. While life keeps moving our window stand strong through every chapter. Let Renewal by Andersen be part of your story. Windows Built to last. Visit renewalbyandersonhome.com to learn more.
- [00:31]
Ondeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team or bridging cash flow, Gaps on Deck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star Trust pilot reviews, Ondeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes@ondeck.com depending on certain loan attributes. Your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
- [01:00]
Cornell Belcher
That speaks to the strength of your leadership.
- [01:02]
Michelle Norris
It has never been a better time
- [01:04]
Cornell Belcher
to be an American.
- [01:05]
Pete Hegseth
I think actually your efforts on the Reflecting Pool are actually a great segue. Just like you talked about with the Reflecting Pool. We didn't do the same old thing the way we'd done it in the past.
- [01:14]
Angelo Carusone
Just a reminder of another war you helped to settle. Mr. President, it's just, it's exciting to see your vision.
- [01:20]
Martha Raddatz
You're leading us to the greatest economy that the world has ever known. And that's why they tell you to tell me to tell you, Mr. President, thank you and they love you.
- [01:32]
Nicole Wallace
I had to make sure that was real. I did not believe that was real. You know, AI is everywhere and I thought that was AI. I didn't think that that was real. I didn't think people could actually act that way in front of a president sitting at about 32%. Hi again everyone. It's now 5 o' clock in New York and that was real. And with hard hitting cabinet officials like those, it's no wonder Donald Trump thinks the country's hot right now and that America is experiencing some sort of golden age. It's just one of the many signs that Donald Trump is either willfully staying in the dark by having them talk to him like that, or completely unaware that people are actually really, really mad and they don't all want them to tell him that they love him or he's in denial about how angry and frustrated millions of Americans are now with him and his presidency. He went out and talked to his own voters. He would get a very different account. Donald Trump is continuing to hit record polling lows as voters express disgust with his economy. We should tell you that the Economist. You go poll out today finds that just 34% of all voters approve of the job Donald Trump is doing as president. Here's what they say about those numbers. Quote, only one third of Americans approve of how Donald Trump is handling his job as president. Trump. That's lower than Trump's approval in any weekly Economist YouGov poll over his two terms as president. Two terms. Trump's net approval of minus 26 is also a record low for either of his terms or Joe Biden's term as president. Donald Trump hit record low net approval for either of his terms among Democrats minus 96 and independents minus 44 and a brand new low for his second term among Republicans plus just 61. Donald Trump's record low approval ratings come as concerns about the economy are as high as they've been in years. For the second week In a row, 63% of all Americans say the economy is getting worse. Just 13% of Americans think that the economy is getting better. The only time since 2017 that more Americans said the economy is getting worse was in the summer of 2022 during a surge in inflation. And that anger and blame is now being directed beyond Donald Trump toward members of his MAGA Republican Party. Here's just a tiny slice of the questions Republican Congressman Mike Flood of Nebraska faced at his town hall meeting last night.
- [04:05]
Paul Rykopf
Why do you continue to protect the
- [04:07]
Nicole Wallace
pedophiles and Trump's DOJ as they continue
- [04:09]
Paul Rykopf
to break the law they were all
- [04:11]
Uber Commercial
supposed to release on December 19th?
- [04:14]
Angelo Carusone
Trump architect returning the pool, the reflecting pool renovation, slush fund for crooks and the farm bill. How do we pay for all this? It says how can your morals let you fall into like with Trump.
- [04:31]
Nicole Wallace
It's an anti weaponization fund which allows
- [04:37]
Paul Rykopf
all Those people on January 6th who
- [04:39]
Angelo Carusone
broke into the Capitol to benefit from that fund. It also gives the president the right to go after that many.
- [04:45]
Nicole Wallace
Last year you talked about fiscal conservatism. How is that fiscally conservative?
- [04:50]
Angelo Carusone
The next three questions here are all the same. It's what do you think about the new slush fund of tax dollars that Trump has?
- [04:57]
Cornell Belcher
And I think we addressed that 20 minutes ago.
- [05:02]
Nicole Wallace
I took the slush fund question. I did that 20 minutes ago. Let's see how that works out. That growing anger from voters all across the ideological spectrum and deep inside the MAGA coalition, all while Donald Trump's cabinet tells him that America loves him and wants them to tell him how much is where we start. The Hour with some of our most favorite experts and friends. Democratic pollster and political analyst Cornell Belcher is back. Also joining us, senior contributing editor Michelle Norris. And Media Matters for America President Angelo Carazone is with us as well. Cornell, what do you see in the numbers?
- [05:37]
Michelle Norris
I see doom and collapse. And I did have to laugh with you, Nicolette, at that cabinet meeting. It's like it's so disconnected from reality. Only 13% of Americans think the economy is getting better. And they're telling him it's a golden age. And at some point, you know, is he doing this because he believes his cabinet and he's really that insulated from what's happening out there in the real world? Because they're not doing him service by this disconnection? Because what he's doing is deeply unpopular. His war is deeply unpopular. His terrorists are deeply unpopular. All of his policies are deeply unpopular. Him, you know, ballrooms for hundreds of millions of dollars, deeply unpopular. There's nothing that, that, that's on his agenda, the top of his agenda that we're talking about, that American people say, that's for me, that's gonna help me and my family. It's gonna empower my family. It's gonna help bring down gas prices. None of this is for the American people.
- [06:41]
Nicole Wallace
You know, Cornell, I'm struck by the corruption story I used to have David Farenthalt on. He was at the Washington Post, he's now at the New York Times. And he wrote brilliant investigative, deeply, deeply reported stories about violations of the emoluments clause. And I remember asking him to explain that the corruption in Trump one point. Oh, was unprecedented. The corruption in 2.0 is, like, off the hook. I mean, we're out of PG rated superlatives for what he's doing in the second term. But I wonder how much of it is the more brazen corruption and how much of it is what a safety net the perception of a strong economy was for him in 1.0. Do you have a diagnosis and does it matter politically?
- [07:23]
Michelle Norris
I think if Americans are feeling confident about the economy, they're feeling confident about the direction of the country. I think they're, they're more likely to turn away from this. But what I'm hearing in focus groups is, is how can you be spending, you know, a couple hundred million dollars on a ballroom when I can't put groceries on our table? Right? He's got the. And so the corruption has meaning for them now. Right? You could always argue that a little bit of corruption. Voters would turn their, turn their face or turn their eye away from a little bit of corruption if they were benefiting. There is absolutely no benefit for the American people. And what's happening in Washington right now, they're only hurting because of it. So, no, corruption is a part of front and center. There's a culture of corruption that's permeating this White House. And American people do see it connected to their inability to get ahead and get the system to work for them. That, that one makes it a little bit different.
- [08:23]
Nicole Wallace
Nicole Angelo, I went back and listened to something that you and I have talked about a lot, probably more than my audience wanted to hear about it. And that is the manosphere bump that Trump got ahead of the 2024 election. And I think I misunderstood some of that as people really vibing with him. And there was some of that, but it was like equal parts vibing with Trump because he showed up hating the left and misrepresenting all of the left with some policies that were unpopular politically. And then the third piece really was like economic viability, or I'll be more blunt, being rich. I mean, there really was a luster to aspirational wealth. And that makes up sort of the manosphere vibes that boosted Trump. I personally think it was determinative in his ability to win in 2024. There is no more shining the economy. It sucks. And a lot of Republicans think it sucks as well. There is no more vibes. I mean, Trump falls asleep in. I mean, the White House is the most press controlled White House in terms of where they let the cameras in. He is asleep in all of his own events and there is so much makeup on his face, but they can't find enough to cover the bruises on his hands. So there's no more vibing on the manliness of Trumpism. And the third piece of that is evaporated as well. I mean, the whole idea that he was this good choice for young men seems to be gone. Where do you see his political coalition today?
- [09:58]
Angelo Carusone
Yeah, I mean, that part of the coalition is fractured and certainly gone now whether they'll ultimately be aligned with his interests and they overlap over time. You kind of hinted at it, which is that they're not really going to support Democrats right now, so they may stay home. They're going to lean toward anti establishment candidates. Right. And anti establishment figures. And that's kind of the direction they're going to go in. And that fetishization piece on, on sort of their own pockets was a big factor. They thought that Trump was going to do things to the economy, or at minimum, he was going to be really good for the speculative investments around Cryptico, that they'd be able to, you know, pump and dump, ride the wave, make some money, make a quick buck and move on. Right. Like there was a financial interest there. And that seemed to overlap and with Trump. And they're also mad at Biden because they felt like, hey, here they're out here telling us how great the economy is when we don't feel it. And they're even further detached and disconnected. So that part of it is, you know, they're not going to be with Trump anymore, but they're not going to be with Democrats. So the. So one of it is that it doesn't have a huge political effect. You know, to the extent that the midterms are going to be a referendum on Trump, some of them may peel off and vote against Trump locally. But I. I just don't think they're going to be as big of a factor. And this is where the flip side comes in. There's going to be a little bit of bread and circuses along the way. They'll come back around or temper on things related to Maha. And we see that every so often with, you know, peptides and other things where they bring in Rogan or they tout out our RFK junior to sort of just, you know, appeal to them a little bit, give them something to distract them, to engage them. There'll be some stuff around, UFC and that cultural part of it, but he's not getting them back. And that's the reveal here, because then what does Trump do? He goes back to his old playbook, which is organize and build power on what used to be considered the fringes. So he's lost the kinetic energy of this third part of his coalition, this sort of manosphere piece. He needs to replace it. And that slush fund isn't just purely corruption. It is. It certainly is, but it's also calculation, which is that I am going to incentivize a whole bunch of extremists to be confident and comfortable and get out there and get excited, because I'm going to need them to do things. I'm going to need to reactivate that part of my coalition and grow it, because I need to replace some energy that I've now lost as a part of the manosphere. And so I think those two stories are actually linked. He's lost that one piece of it. He's replacing it with these extremists. And that's the way that that conversation has been activated in that part of the media landscape. Enrico Tario, who's former head of the Proud Boys, for instance, has been talking about how much excitement There is from J6ers, and he has people being able to dip into those funds. So, you know, that part of the coalition is going to. They're going to keep taking shots on the sidelines. They're going to make Trump not cool, and they're going to make fun of him, but they're not going to help Democrats in terms of they shouldn't rely on them or beyond that. And Trump is going to replace that with something much scarier and, frankly, more violent.
- [12:56]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, I think that is something that we should keep our eyes wide open to. I do think that is the intent of, of the slush fund, and I think that's why they're so willing. I think that's why Todd Blanche is willing to burn up whatever's left of his character and integrity trying to sell this thing to Senate Republicans. They laughed and shouted him out of the room. Michelle. But I think politically, there are a lot more voters pissed off about the economy than there are extremists excited about the slush fund. And I wonder if you sort of step back from the tactical impact of the things Trump's doing and you look at the political detriment he's done to himself and his party, how do you see the moment?
- [13:37]
Paul Rykopf
I don't think he cares about the party. I mean, he said in his Cabinet meeting today that, I don't care about the midterms. Have you ever heard a president say that, you know, he cares about himself and not his party when he loses support in his core Republican base? One of the reasons that he actually got a lot of support also is because he made people afraid of a future that was browner than, frankly, they were comfortable with. And his immigration policy was part of that. And that's one of the reasons why he's losing support also, is that people see the backdraft from that now, farmers see it because they don't have people to go out and put crops in the ground or pull them out of the ground in the fall. People see it because they're building these detention centers in their backyard and they don't want them. So certain things that sounded good, like applause lines on the campaign trail are rather open to people, and they're not interested in that. And you add that to the economy, and then you add that to a president who seems to live in a state where he is in total disconnect. With the public. I mean, he dismisses any kind of bad news as fake. He goes on the attack, he shifts blame, and he changes the subject, which he can do because he can use the bully pulpit of the presidency to pretend that he is popular into perpetuity. And in trying to change the subject, he can do that, but the American public can't do that. They can't just change the subject when the bills come due. They can't change the subject when their health care costs are rising. I mean, in that sense, he reminds me of the character, I don't know if you remember the film being there, where Chance the Gardener was thrown out into the world after spending all his time cloistered, working for a very wealthy family. And he goes out in the world and he encounters things that he doesn't like, and he reaches for his remote control and tries to change the channel. And it was, you know, wonderful satire written by Jersey Kaczynski. And he was making a point.
- [15:28]
Nicole Wallace
It.
- [15:28]
Paul Rykopf
It's what we're seeing right now is someone who sees himself as a political savant who needs to be fertilized, you know, with, with compliments all the time. And if you think about what we actually use as fertilizer, I think that's what we saw in the cabinet room there, a lot of bs. But he's trying to change the subject because he's creating his own reality. And that's what you see in autocracies. That's not what you see in the. Someone who is interested in democracy would care about the midterms.
- [15:57]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. I mean, I also think that his autocratic ambitions are clear. It's undeniable that he's made a lot of progress. But for better or for worse, as we sit here today, we still live in a democracy or we wouldn't be having this conversation. And I want to show you, Michelle, what voters say about the Trump economy.
- [16:17]
Voter Testimonial
When I take something off the shelf, that there are so many people who can't afford it, and it breaks my. And more people than not can't. And I know that when they go shopping for themselves and the kids, between the gas prices and the grocery prices and the health insurance, I know so many people who are in that situation. They have to make real hard choices. It's really crazy that the billionaires are saying, oh, it's no problem. It's just, you know, for a little while. Well, if they had to suffer for a little while, I think. I think they are all, by three months being poor.
- [16:53]
Nicole Wallace
There's an overkill Right. Like the billionaires have overplayed their hand. The oligarchs who stood and faced out at us, the American people on the night of the inauguration. I mean, they've all signaled that they're with Trump and that Trump is with them. And now that the economy is cratering, people have internalized all that, Michelle.
- [17:12]
Paul Rykopf
Yeah, they have internalized it. And I don't think we understand how steep that hill is moving downward. I mean, as we move into the third and fourth quarter of this year, we can expect a lot of pain because a lot of the things that are driving the economy downward are things that we don't have control over. I mean, you know, gas prices, if we were, if he was able to negotiate an end to the war in Iran tomorrow, it will be months before we see relief in terms of gas prices, in terms of prescription prices that are rising. Because, you know, all that moves through that, that narrow strait on the other side of the world. And so you don't see the kind of thing that you would want in a leader in the White House to show some sort of empathy. I just don't think that is in his DNA. And sadly, even, you know, a good manager manages to their weaknesses. If you don't have that, you find someone else who can speak to the people who can show some sort of empathy and understanding of the predicament that they're in in this economy. There is no one in that room. I mean, maybe you thought I didn't see it. Anyone in that room who projects any kind of empathy or sympathy or understanding of what's going on in the American public right now when it comes to the economy.
- [18:25]
Nicole Wallace
I have to sneak in a break, but I'm going to show you how not to midterm the sound from Donald Trump that Michelle talked about. Also ahead for us, former Fox News weekend host turned Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth gave the commencement address at Western Point this weekend. And this won't surprise any of you. He used the speech to subject the graduating cadets to a laundry list of culture war grievances, blasting wokeness and dei, even lecturing them about the use of gender neutral pronouns. It is a far cry from the stories of military service and heroism Longtime correspondent Martha Raditz shares in her brand new book. She'll be our guest later in the hour. Daylighthouse continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [19:11]
Uber Commercial
With share my trip from Uber. You can send your live trip location to the ones who matter most, like Dan and Hannah, who always wait up to make sure their daughter gets back to her college dorm room. Or Tiffany, who's running late as usual and her friends are tracking her trip to make sure she's actually on her way.
- [19:26]
Paul Rykopf
Look, she's right there. She's three minutes away.
- [19:28]
Uber Commercial
Or Sam, who never goes anywhere without her roommate knowing exactly where she is. Some journeys are meant to be shared. Share your ride in real time with ShareMyTrip on Uber. One more way Uber is putting safety at every turn. Learn more on the Uber app.
- [19:42]
OnDeck Commercial
OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, Ondeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star Trustpilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at OnDeck.com, depending on loan attributes. Your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic bank on Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amount subject to lender approval.
- [20:11]
Love's Rewards Commercial
Out on the road, it's nice to have a partner who can help you make the most of your journey. A partner like the Love's Rewards app. With Love's Rewards along for the ride, you save 10 cents on every gallon of gas every time you fill up at Love's, and up to 25 cents on every gallon of auto diesel. That's why it's the best fuel discount program on the road. Download the app today, then watch those savings add up mile after mile. Love's Rewards save and earn at every turn. Terms apply. Not available in all states.
- [20:43]
Michelle Norris
He's got the midterms. I don't care about the midterms. Look what happened last night, that was the prelude to the midterms. People understand that. They know that. Very simple Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. I'm doing that for the world. I'm not doing it just for us.
- [20:58]
Nicole Wallace
Cornell the most, I think, newsworthy thing in that statement is this part quote, I'm not doing it just for us. Who's us?
- [21:09]
Michelle Norris
Yeah, certainly the American people look at that and go, well, you're not doing it for us. Because overwhelmingly American people don't wish to be at war with Iran right now. And they're dealing with the devastating impact of what it's doing to energy prices. And they're seeing that impact every day when they go to fill up their cars. So I don't know who the US Is, but the American people, I think, are fairly clear that the US Is not necessarily them, because it's not a war that they all at all think America should be, should be engaging in right now. And in fact, it has grown even more unpopular the longer it goes on and the more he tries to sell it to the American people. What are what they're selling the American people are not buying right now around the war.
- [21:58]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. Angela. The New York Times writes this. Trump is the only person who can save America according to his Cabinet, quote, compared with his first term when some of his top aides push back against the president's impulses. Trump has emphasized the importance of loyalty this time around. Officials have declared on camera that he is single handedly ending global conflicts, winning the race for AI, motivating troops to enlist and lowering gas prices, among a number of other claimed accomplishments. Pete Hegseth trying to, I don't know what he was trying to say about the Reflecting Pool. I mean, this is the stuff of like spoof and satire. I mean, this will live forever. And I think that's Kelly Loeffler was saying. Everyone wants me to tell you that they love you like 13. I mean, I don't know what they think they're doing to help the situation for a president at historic lows for himself and lower than Joe Biden ever was. I mean, what is your sense of the production of sycophants and who they think they're helping?
- [23:03]
Angelo Carusone
I mean, that's what it is, right? I mean, it is a production. I mean, they're suck ups. They are reinforcing the narrative. Not for the public. I don't think that's to convince the public or Trump supporters.
- [23:14]
Nicole Wallace
If it is, it isn't working, right?
- [23:15]
Angelo Carusone
No, it's not.
- [23:16]
Nicole Wallace
The public is like two thumbs down.
- [23:18]
Angelo Carusone
Yeah, yeah, it's a convict. It's to reinforce it for Trump because he's not going to change course. And a big part of his philosophy has always been sort of the power of positive thinking. You sort of manifest it and then you just keep acting that way and eventually it happens, you know, and, but my thought as you sort of talked about it is that somebody is lying. And by that I mean at the beginning of the segment, right, you, you point, you, you played some clips from that town hall and there have been others that have been very similar to that. Now that's one room. And then you have this other room which is the one with the president and all of these, in theory, these leaders who are totally sucking up and telling a radically different story about how great everything is. Those two things can't be true. People can't be going to their local representative and saying, everything is bad. I'm having, I'm having difficulty in my day to day. And then at the same time with the comments from all those public servants in the room that the economy is great, things are doing better, it's a golden age. They're incompatible. So somebody's lying and who is it? And obviously it's the people in the room. And then it gets to the, so what? To what end? And this is sort of ties in with Michel was referencing before. You know, he is acting like an autocrat now to your point, we're not there yet. We still have some, and hopefully some, some Democratic, you know, leg to stand on here. And that's what the midterms are about, is to sustain that and hopefully grow it and nurture it. But he is acting like he's already on the other side of that. And that's what that room reinforces, that the people around him are not just, you know, you know, sucking up in their words. What's worse is that they do it in their actions. And that's where the, you know, the slush fund comes in and all these other things. It is all designed to reinforce Trump's autocratic tendencies in his worldview while everybody else suffers. And the laws of political reality at least aren't going to be stopping him, at least until the midterms.
- [25:03]
Nicole Wallace
Looking ahead to the midterms, Michel, this is more from the YouGov polling on Trump reaching new lows. Quote, 43% of Americans say they and their family are worse off financially than they were one year ago. It's the highest since 2024. It's the first time, 2024, that the share of Americans say they are about the same financially as they were a year ago. 42% hasn't been higher than the share saying they're worse off. Only 10% say they're better off than a year ago. I don't care who you are and I don't care how many of the autocrats tools you've deployed. If only 10% of Americans say they're better off than they were a year ago, you're not just talking about a wave, you're talking about a whole sort of infrastructure of who turns out to vote. If 10% of the country, 10% of voters say they're better off than a year ago, I mean, you're talking about an unprecedented possible potential. If the Democrats and the pro democracy side does everything right. Rejection, forget about everything else we've been talking about, but of Trump's economy alone.
- [26:04]
Paul Rykopf
Well, you know, Cornell is our resident pollster in this conversation, but I think we should understand that this is also probably a lagging indicator that we're, these are questions that were asked at a point when people were feeling a little bit better. The, the numbers are probably just going to continue to move because gas prices are now about above $4 in many parts of the country. I mean, you're starting to see that wave hit as prices continue to rise. This is, this should be bad news for the Republicans, but as I said earlier, Donald Trump isn't really interested in building the Republican Party. Just to reach back to the cabinet meeting, I think it's important also to remind people that what Cabinet meetings are usually for, it's usually when the members of the cabinet talk about business of the people, the business of government. And one of the symptoms of an autocracy also is a government that generally doesn't function beyond lining the pockets of the people who are in power. And when you have people who are there who are running all of our agency, our agencies, you know, they work for the American public and they're there primarily to pat his back and make him feel good and not take care of the business of the American people, that is also something that merits our attention, that this is a country that is run for, run by someone who fundamentally doesn't seem interested in governance. And, you know, it's, it's, it's not always sexy, it's not always interesting to a lot of people. But government is important. It's what keeps the world, you know, the balls rolling. It's what keeps things running on time. And we see all kinds of indications that that's just not something that our president is interested in.
- [27:37]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I mean, it's another piece, though, of people turning around and asking these questions. And some may say too late, but I would argue it's never too late. Cornell, of why is there Ebola? And why are people dying of measles? And why can't I get a vaccine? And why isn't it covered anymore? And why is my health care suddenly 400% more than it was a year ago? People don't always focus on the things that affect their lives in a political cycle the way those of us do. Political practitioners and political reporters, they sometimes focus on the politics when they go looking for answers for why something is broken. And there is not a single thing that's gotten better for families out there, either economically or financially or for the country's health and well being. And I wonder who you think is doing a good job telling that story?
- [28:35]
Michelle Norris
Well, I think. Well, I don't think any of the Republicans are doing a good job. And it gets us back to this idea of the midterms is. And you know this well, is what you have to have something to run on. And I'm, I scratch my head at thinking, what exactly is it that House and Senate Republicans run on? Because I have no idea, because they haven't done anything that I think is particularly popular. So they're entering a midterm where a president with historical low numbers, the Americans, people thinking that the economy is headed in the right direction and consumer confidence at a historic low, and they're running on a ballroom and reflecting pool.
- [29:20]
Angelo Carusone
The other point I think I said
- [29:23]
Michelle Norris
is, Michelle, I want to go back to the cabinet for a moment because, Nicole, those are the people who can change it, right? And if they were really doing their job, as opposed to saying, Everything's great, Mr. President, everyone loves you. They're the people who are supposed to sound the alarm and say, no, this isn't great. We have Ebola breaking out. We have economic angst, and we have to do something different. But no one in that room seems capable of doing that. So they are also doing the American people a disservice and doing him a disservice, I would argue, as well, yeah,
- [30:01]
Nicole Wallace
they should be protecting his standing with the American people. And instead, I would imagine they show up with, like, paint swatches for the new ballroom because that's what he cares about. Cornell Belcher, Michelle Norris, Angelo Caracon, thank you for joining us today. When we come back, Pete Hegseth brings the culture war to West Point in a graduation speech in which he bashed everything from diversity to. To pronouns, to great inflation. How, Pete Teg says, is changing what has been the most revered institution in American life. Longtime Pentagon correspondent Martha Raddatz has covered the Pentagon for decades. She will join us right here at the table after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [30:47]
Pete Hegseth
Our diversity is our strength. The single dumbest phrase in military history. We had generals saying this with a straight face on national television. It was absolute nonsense. These ideas are what get people killed. Diversity is not our strength. Unity is our strength. The call is send us not send. He not send. She not send. They themselves.
- [31:20]
Nicole Wallace
Hurts my guts to listen to him, but we should all know what he's saying in our name as Americans. That was our country's Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, subjecting this year's best of the best graduates of the United States Military Academy at West Point to what has become his routine political diatribe of lies wrapped in culture war grievances. And he did that on one of the most important days in their lives. The cadets in attendance represent some of the best and brightest young people our country has to offer to the world. They are patriots. Some of those cadets in attendance are future heroes, future politicians, future leaders of the military this country will depend on, and potentially the very near future. As Donald Trump's war with Iran continues to drag on, longtime Pentagon and international affairs correspondent Martha Raddatz is out with a brand new book detailing the other side of that, the bright side, the service, the sacrifice, the greatness of American heroes and patriots, people like neurosurgeon Rocco Armanda. At 17, in the fall of 1982, Rocco Armanda began his plebe year at West Point. He recalled being one of the youngest there. He had never met a West Point graduate and had no idea what he was getting into, but he quickly realized it was where he belonged. The values and character traits that the academy promoted were precisely what he sought. Teamwork, challenge, and the whole idea that you can't just focus on one particular area, you must maintain fitness to fight. Mental resilience, physical strength, emotional fortitude, along with academic and technical skills, Armanda had it all. Armanda helped treat ABC News journalist Bob Woodward in the aftermath of his brain injury from a roadside bomb in 2006 and more recently was on the front lines in Ukraine, sharing his expertise with Ukraine's military doctors. I want to bring in the author of that beautiful story, co anchor of this Week with George Stephanopoulos and ABC News chief global affairs correspondent Martha Raddatz. Her new book, the Hero Next Stories of Patriotism and Purpose, is out right now. Also joining our conversation, Paul Rykopf is back. He's of course, the host of the Independent Americans podcast, the founder and CEO of Independent Veterans of America. It's so nice to get to talk to you.
- [33:43]
Martha Raddatz
Nice to get to talk to you, too.
- [33:44]
Nicole Wallace
It's great being here and I'm so happy. It's about something beautiful and important and real. Talk about why you wrote the book and why you wrote it.
- [33:54]
Martha Raddatz
Now, first of all, exactly what you said about Rocco. He believes that today that is who he is. That is why he does what he does, not only when he was an army neurosurgeon but now in Iraq. I wrote this book for precisely the reason that I want Americans to know these stories. These are not political. It does not matter what you think about any War at this point, it's the men and women who go voluntarily to serve our country. And I've done it for so long. I've seen them for so long. I have such a connection to so many of them. And quite frankly, it's because of we could embed with those troops for a long time and see them up close. And they opened the doors to us talking to those troops to know what was truly happening in those wars so we could report on that. But I have seen them for so long, and I, early on in the war, Paul Urell remembered this. It's thank you for your service. Thank you for your service. I think now we've kind of forgotten about them. And the same people who suffered injuries, who lost legs or had ptsd, still have lost their legs, and they're dealing with it and they're finding purpose and they are fighting to serve the country in some other way. Some of them in the book are still serving active duty, but others have gone on to do just remarkable things. And it's also the home front, and I think that's really more important than anything that we. That we give credit to those here at home who are caring for wounded soldiers who've been wounded for 20 years and are still doing that, and that we just remember that. I think it's a way to bring a divided country together. These are not political people. They don't want to hear about politics. They want to serve their country. They want to make what they do matter. And these people are shining examples of that.
- [35:43]
Nicole Wallace
These people had as their leaders people like Mark Milley and Jim Mattis and General Kelly, all the way through Trump's first term. Those men tell harrowing stories of what Trump thinks of the men. You describe, people who are injured, who lose their lives. General Kelly tells the story of Donald Trump saying to him at Arlington, why do they do it? Quote, what's in it for them? End quote. General Milley talked about how Trump didn't want amputees at ceremonies where they were open to the press. What does it mean to the military to have a commander in chief who thinks that people who served their country and sacrificed or were injured are, quote, losers and suckers?
- [36:24]
Martha Raddatz
Well, I think it depends on who you talk to, of course. And the one thing I will say is I think they try to tune out all of that noise. I think whether it's the Biden administration in General Milley or whatever, and perhaps that speech at West Point, I think they just want to do their job and serve their country. Men and Women, no matter who they are, they want equality. They want to be fit. They want to serve well. They want to go into battle and do the best job they possibly can. But I think they want to leave politics and they have to just tune out that noise. They volunteered to serve our country. That is the single job that they want to do. And they want to do it well for all of us.
- [37:08]
Nicole Wallace
Do you think they want to tune out General Milley?
- [37:13]
Cornell Belcher
I do. I think they want to tune out anybody out of Washington. And it's an honor to be here
- [37:17]
Nicole Wallace
with Martha and you, Paul.
- [37:19]
Cornell Belcher
She's a legend.
- [37:19]
Angelo Carusone
We're old friends.
- [37:20]
Cornell Belcher
She's a legend. And we're old friends in part because she is so revered and respected across the community. And only Martha could write a book like this because they trust her, because she has integrity, because she's independent, because she stands for all the things that our military stands for. And she's in very rare error. That's why people are so candid with her in this book. And this is the kind of book we need because it celebrates our values, our shared values. And I think that's what people in the military want most of all, is people who respect and share and honor those values. And what we've seen out of this administration is crossing lines that have never been crossed before. No matter how you feel about Pete Hegseth, everything he said this weekend was wrong. It was out of bounds. Just you don't do that there. And I think that's a really important message to convey. You know, whether it's at Arlington for Memorial Day or at a West Point graduation, you leave your most extreme political voices out of that place. And this is where they blurred the lines. What I really worry about is it kind of contaminates people's trust in the military. They worry that it is Trump's military, it is Hegsett's military, and it's not. It's everyone's military. And that's the important.
- [38:19]
Martha Raddatz
That is a very good point. That is a very good point. They don't want anybody to think that they're political either. And what we want to do is to make sure you look at it in a pure way that the military is non political, that they just as
- [38:35]
Nicole Wallace
you said, Paul, what does it do to the ability to do that, though, when a speech is given at West Point?
- [38:42]
Martha Raddatz
Paul's going to take that question.
- [38:45]
Cornell Belcher
The fact that Martha is kicking that one over to me just underscores why, frankly, she's trusted and I think vital right now because she can tell these stories, she can hold them accountable. Look, I mean, I've called Hegseth the acting secretary of culture war. He is always a culture warrior, every day, everywhere, all the time, including at West Point. And I would hope that the commander chief would say, all right, you know, sit this one out. We're going to keep it middle of the road. But they don't. I mean, this is an opportunity for them to expand the culture war, to elevate Hegsef to turn it up to 10 instead of turning it down. And I think the downside is that it's driving people away from the military. Even if you agree with their kind of politics, you probably don't want politics invoked into every single thing. And that's what's continuing to happen.
- [39:26]
Martha Raddatz
Nicole, can I tell you one culture war story?
- [39:28]
Michelle Norris
Sure.
- [39:28]
Martha Raddatz
You know, I've been around a long time, and I covered women getting into combat, and former Captain Rosemary Mariner tried to get women in combat aircraft. She did it successfully. She testified on the Hill. And I remember covering fighter pilots, and they're, you know, we go through this too. What's it like to be a woman? And so I'm asking that question to this female fighter pilot. She's like, everybody's great. I thought, oh, yeah, well, let me ask the guys. And they're like, I don't even think about it. I just don't think about it. And I don't think they think about it in general. The majority of people there who I talk to just don't think about it. They don't. It doesn't bother them in many ways. Absolutely. There are some loud voices out there who say, wait, wait, wait. We can't have these people or those people in here. But if they do the job and they do the job well, they just forget about it.
- [40:17]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, Yeah. I want to ask you more about that and what's going on and what it's like to cover the Pentagon in this moment. We have to sneak in a quick break. We'll be right back. On the other side.
- [40:29]
Uber Commercial
On any journey using Uber, it helps to know you're getting into the right car. Pin verification adds an extra step to make sure your ride is your ride before the trip begins. Your app gives you a unique pin. Just tell it to your driver, and they'll enter it in their app before the ride can start.
- [40:43]
Nicole Wallace
Hey, what's your pin? 2538.
- [40:47]
Uber Commercial
That way you know you're in the right car taking the right trip, and your driver knows you're the right passenger. Make sure Your ride is your ride with pin verification from Uber. One more way Uber is putting safety at every turn. Learn more on the Uber app Ondeck
- [41:00]
OnDeck Commercial
is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team or bridging cash flow gaps. Ondeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star Trustpilot review, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes@ondeck.com depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
- [41:28]
Love's Rewards Commercial
Out on the road, it's nice to have a partner who can help you make the most of your journey. A partner like the Love's Rewards app. With Love's Rewards along for the ride, you earn points on food, fuel, drinks and more every time you scan. Then you can see spend those points at Love's just like cash, so every stop is even more rewarding. Download the app today and watch the points roll in mile after mile. Love's Rewards save and earn at every turn. Terms apply. See website for details.
- [42:00]
Nicole Wallace
We're back with Martha and Paul. So Martha, Paul describes you accurately and I've observed and respected your coverage as a colleague at ABC and as a subject. Yeah. Oh, it was so n. But as a subject, I mean, you know, I worked in the administration and to Paul's point, you are trusted and you have unprecedented, almost singular access to the people making decisions, as well as the men and women affected by them and their families. What is it like covering the Pentagon right now with unprecedented restrictions on press access?
- [42:32]
Martha Raddatz
It's much more difficult. I obviously have people that I can still talk to from building trust over years, but can't really get into the building. And the thing that I think is really too bad is that we have not been out there to see anyone involved in this war. We have 50,000 troops out there. You haven't seen any reporters on a ship. You haven't seen any reporters on a base. I understand and I respect that it's difficult to get us out there in the middle of a conflict, but it has almost always happened before. And it's not just embedding with the troops. I talked about that, and that has been a big thing in my life to actually see them and go out with them and report on them. But it's really important for Americans to know why we go to war. I mean, I'm proud of our coverage in Iraq and Afghanistan because we could point out things that were going well and that were definitely not going well. And to see it with your own eyes, to smell it and live it, there's just nothing that replaces that. So I think until we really get out there and see it ourselves for as long as possible, I've been told maybe that will happen. I'm waiting to see if it does because I want to know who those people are out there. And it's not asking them, what do you feel about the war? I've never really asked that question. That is not their decision. But to see what they're doing and how they think things are going and to see for yourself is really important.
- [43:59]
Nicole Wallace
And it doesn't serve the minimum of the military to have that access blocked.
- [44:03]
Cornell Belcher
No, I mean, we need just to remind people we're there. You know, Memorial Day weekend is always kind of a stunning contrast when a lot of folks go to the beach or go camping and we go to Arlington. And that's part of how you build trust with folks like Martha, you know, who's there every year, who's covering it every year, and who you can trust as an embed. I think it's a strategy. If I were Pete Hegseth, I would not want Martha Raddatz embedded with any units.
- [44:25]
Martha Raddatz
Oh, thanks. Now you've really done it.
- [44:27]
Cornell Belcher
But I think it's true. I mean, she's going to call it like it is. And the easiest way to stop the truth is to not allow access. And that's what they've been doing. And it's very dangerous, not just to our troops, but to our democracy.
- [44:37]
Nicole Wallace
Thank you both for being here together. You guys need a podcast together.
- [44:40]
Cornell Belcher
She'll be on mine tomorrow.
- [44:42]
Nicole Wallace
Amazing. Thank you both for being here. The book is Chicken Soup for the Soul. Doesn't do it Justice. It's really important, especially right now. The Hero Next stories of patriotism and purpose. And it's out now. Quick break for us. We'll be right back. On this week's episode of the Best People podcast, I got to chat with a fellow White House comms veteran, POD Save the World's Ben Rhodes, about his brand new book on the speeches that have changed and made our country. Listen to what he told me about Martin Luther King Jr. S I have a Dream speech.
- [45:17]
Ben Rhodes
It's almost like he's levitating, you know, and people at the time knew it. Like I read the contemporary people in prison with tears streaming down their cheeks. Teddy Kennedy was on the D and said, I became a convert to the cause of civil rights that day, like John F. Kennedy. King went to see him after that speech, and they'd had a complicated relationship. Kennedy greeted him and was like, I have a dream. Gave a knowing smile like one athlete to another, like, I see what you did there. And the reason it answers your question, Nicole, is we've been shaming people negatively. I do it all the time, so I'm counting myself. You do it. But two we should Shame on Jeff Bezos. Shame on Elon Musk. Shame on Republican members of Congress. What King understood, though, is sometimes a powerful, positive vision is more shameful than just speaking about the racism of Bull Connor. That in other words, how can you listen to what King said and not want to believe that?
- [46:28]
Nicole Wallace
The entire conversation is out now on YouTube. Just scan the QR code on your screen or download it wherever you get your podcast to listen. Let me know what you think on Instagram or Blue Sky. One more break. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes tonight.
- [46:45]
OnDeck Commercial
We are grateful On Deck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team or bridging cash flow gaps, On Deck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star Trustpilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes@ondeck.com depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans an amount subject to lender approval.