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Deadline: White House
"Common good"
00:40:49
Nicolle Wallace talks to Senator Chris Murphy about his new book "Crisis of the Common Good".
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- [00:02]
Nicole Wallace
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David Frum
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- [01:00]
Alex Wagner
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- [01:28]
Nicole Wallace
Prices and Participation. Hi there everyone. It's four o'clock in New York. Stop me if you've heard this one before. A political candidate is dogged by fraud charges, allegations of adultery, allegations of abusing his office for personal gain. He's impeached and he's willing to go to court over baseless conspiracy theories that the election was stolen. That candidate then sails through the Republican primary and his party, including the candidate who lost to him, swallows his dignity, his pride, any qualms they had about having this particular candidate in office and pledges their support. We're actually talking today about Ken Paxton, who as of last night is the Republican Party standard bearer and one of the highest profile races in the 2026 midterms, the Texas Senate race. Of course, we could have just as easily been talking about Donald Trump and this Republican Party because the biggest story in politics today, the race in Texas, is also the story of Donald Trump and the Republican Party over the last 10 years. Here is how the loser last night, John Cornyn, described Ken Paxton back in April.
- [02:46]
Alex Wagner
He is a con man and a fraud.
- [02:49]
Senator Chris Murphy
And I think the people of Texas
- [02:52]
Alex Wagner
know that
- [02:54]
Nicole Wallace
con man and a fraud is who John Cornyn is supporting in the general election in November. Yesterday, Cornyn said he will support. Paxton gave him his endorsement after being crushed by the person he called a, quote, con man and fraud by 27 points. It all sounds awfully reminiscent of this moment from 2016.
- [03:17]
Senator Chris Murphy
There is no way we are going to allow a con artist to take over the conservative movement. And Donald Trump is a con artist.
- [03:26]
Nicole Wallace
Said it two times. No way we're going to let a con artist take over the Republican Party. And Donald Trump is a con artist. We all know what happens next, right? And now, now Rubio works for Donald Trump. He has two jobs. He's his Secretary of state, and he's Donald Trump's national security advisor. Of course, after Donald Trump would go on after that moment to win the general election in 16 again in 2024 and to clinch the Republican Party's nomination three times. But back to Texas. There would be no Ken Paxton, Republican nominee for the Senate in the great state of Texas, if there was no Donald Trump and if there was no Republican Party willing time and time and time again to look beyond one's criminal charges or corruption or comments about women or people of color or immigrants or veterans, and so on and so on and so on. But outside of the Earth 2, on which the Republican Party resides, out in the real world, Donald Trump is a deeply unpopular president, including among big and growing swaths of his own political coalition. In poll after poll, Donald Trump is less popular now than he was in the aftermath of the deadly insurrection he incited at the U.S. capitol on January 6th. Voters despise the war with Iran. They are not happy about Donald Trump's lack of focus on the cost of living and his seemingly endless appetite for grift and corruption. They do not like the ballroom that Donald Trump now wants taxpayers to pay for. They don't approve of the $1.8 billion slush fund for Trump's allies and potentially the insurrectionists. They have questions about the 3,700 trades made in the first quarter of this year alone. That corruption is something our next guest, Senator Chris Murphy, has been warning about and talking about and highlighting since the first day of Donald Trump's second term as president. For almost a year and a half now, Senator Chris Murphy has been at the vanguard of the pro democracy movement in America, highlighting the autocratic and corrupt impulses of the Trump administration while urging Americans of all stripes and all political persuasions to fight back against it. Here's what he said about the allegations of insider trading involving those in and around the Trump administration.
- [05:50]
Senator Chris Murphy
There are a bunch of millionaires and billionaires in this country who are making money off of their inside information, their access to what President Trump is going to do or what he is going to say. You as a regular person don't have access to that information. So you don't get to make those trades. You don't get to profit off of your connection to the Trump administration. But that's why we're not joking around when we tell you that this White House is a full time corruption machine. Because every week, nearly every day, something like this happens.
- [06:27]
Nicole Wallace
That is where we begin today with Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. He's out with a brand new book called Crisis of the Common Good, which we'll talk about in a minute. Senator Murphy, thank you for being here.
- [06:38]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah, great to be with you.
- [06:40]
Nicole Wallace
What does it say about the Republican Party that it's now throwing in behind Ken Paxton?
- [06:47]
Senator Chris Murphy
It says a lot about this party, but nothing terribly new because the party, unfortunately, has been essentially a cult of personality for the better part of the last decade. It's certainly more acute today. There is just zero wiggle room. I mean, John Cornyn is a conservative, pro Trump Republican. Yes, on one or two issues over the last 10 years, he may have believed differently than the president. But the message is simply, if you don't line up with me 100% of the time, 24, 7, you have no room in this party. I think you're right, though, to point out that he, you know, is endorsing Ken Paxton, somebody who he believes is fundamentally corrupt. And I think that says something else about the Republican Party. They don't care at all about corruption. They don't seem to care much about democracy these days. What they do care about is the destruction of the left. They believe that the left, the progressive Democrats, are an existential threat to the country. Why? Because we believe in civil rights. We believe that this nation is not simply a white, Christian, patriarchal nation. And to them, that's unacceptable. So they are going to use any tactics, including endorsing con men, lionizing and celebrating corruption, destroying democracy in order to eviscerate the modern left from the body politic. It says a lot of really troubling things about this, this party, just more confirmation of how broken they are.
- [08:24]
Nicole Wallace
What does it say about the stakes then about the midterms, if that is the contest?
- [08:29]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah. I mean, again, just in the last few weeks, you are seeing I mean, I guess we didn't think it could get any worse when it came to corruption. But you know, what Trump has done in the last couple weeks in terms of stealing $1.8 billion from the treasury in order to feed his political friends and cronies, in order to pay money to those who carried out violence in his name. I mean, it is pretty radical. And the stakes of this election, you know, listen, probably our democracy is on the line. I don't know that we recover in time for the 2028 election if Republicans win. But also, you're just gonna see the wholesale theft of taxpayer money for Trump's purposes. If he can get away with what he's doing to the irs, essentially suing himself. And then when the judge says this isn't a real lawsuit, settling out of court with himself for $1.8 billion, he can do that with any agency, and he'll ultimately have hundreds of billions of your money at his disposal for his political purposes. That's what this election is about.
- [09:37]
Nicole Wallace
What do you think about his political standing? I mean, Trump is generously, you know, at 32, 33, 34%. He's lost a big chunk of his own base, largely over the economy, coupled with a deeply unpopular war that he explicit promised his base and the country he wouldn't get the country into, even at 32, 33, 34%. You've got Republican voters heeding his endorsements in all of these Republican. Only their closed primaries where he's influential. But what does it say about the stickiness of that, you know, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34%.
- [10:25]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah, well, I know we'll get to the book later, but I do talk about this in crisis of the common good, because this is a problem we have to diagnose. In Connecticut a couple decades ago, we had a corrupt governor, but his corruption was kind of quaint compared to this. He basically had a state contractor install a hot tub in his house, and he had a couple card games fixed by lobbyists that he always won at. And he was at 70% approval before that happened. And overnight, he went to 24. He was impeached. He was out of office and ultimately in jail. And yet Donald Trump has engaged in levels of corruption a hundred times. Governor Rowland in Connecticut, and he still has a sizable amount of support from his base. And I think it's important for us to ask why that is. Some of it is that the positive ways that we found and have historically found identity, you know, local identity, masculine, feminine identity, work identity, have vanished. And so more people find their identity in politics. And so when your entire identity is based around being a Republican, being part of Trump's movement, it's you. You filter everything he does through a different lens because you're contesting your own identity. Second, Nicole, I think we've normalized corruption in government because we've normalized it in the private sector. If the winners in the private sector get to make trillions of dollars and just take everything that they can and leave the scraps for us, well, then maybe the winners in our politics get to just take everything they can grab and leave the scraps for us. Trump uses his power to make himself three times richer than he was before his presidency. And a CEO of a big tech company uses the power he has to make himself a billionaire or a trillionaire. I think we have to ask a lot of these questions, and that's what Crisis of the Common Good really does say, how did we get to this place where the way Trump is acting hasn't caused him to go to 10% approval, as I think would have happened just a couple generations ago?
- [12:27]
Nicole Wallace
Well, and the book left me wondering about something I have wondered about since 2015, and that's the asymmetry. So Trump rises to the top of the heap in 2015, 16 in the Republican primaries, and stays there after the Access Hollywood tape after refusing to release his taxes, after all sorts of important behavior, Democrats still exist. In a party where the laws of gravity apply and candidates rise and fall based on news cycles, based on ethical questions, based on norms of democracy, how do you solve for the political asymmetry?
- [13:05]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah, I think that's a really important question. I do think that one of the central features of what's broken in our country today is the fact that all of our politics are corrupt. Trump is specifically corrupt. But it is important to understand that money matters on both sides of the aisle. And in the end, the book is about, how do you make Americans feel more spiritually powerful? I don't mean religiously powerful. I mean that they have meaning and purpose in their lives. They think that all of our politics is bought and sold. That is true, but it is much more true on the Republican side. The Republican side has become pretty fully captured by a handful of billionaires and corporations. Their individual candidates really don't raise a ton of money any longer. They rely on these big super PACs to fund them, which I think means that they have become a party that excuses a lot more bad behavior, because it's really all about those handful of donors The Democratic Party is still more accountable to our electorate because we still fund ourselves mostly by small contributions. That means that some of the old rules still apply to us.
- [14:14]
Nicole Wallace
When you look at what you've written in this book, and you take Bruce Springsteen's Hope and Dreams tour and you take the things that the people of Minneapolis wrote on their signs when they walked out into the streets before, during, and after the murder of two American citizens during those ICE occupations of those cities, do you feel like the Democratic Party writ large should be led by the grassroots things that are happening, the things that are drawing huge crowds? I mean, do you think a playbook exists now for how to get out of this and win elections?
- [14:48]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah, Nicole, we've talked a little bit about this in the past. For the last year and a half, I've been raising a lot of money politically. And instead of doing what we all generally do, just squirrel that money away in your campaign account. I've been spending it. I've put about a million dollars into citizen led organizations all around the country, one of them in Minneapolis, but some of them in South Dakota and rural North Carolina, just empowering citizens all over the country to take control of this movement. And I think that's the right thing to do politically, but I also think it's the right thing to do in this cultural moment. What I talk about in this book is that real happiness and purpose comes from being engaged with your neighbors in common cause, that it ultimately feels empty to just work for your own material betterment. And those people in Minneapolis did something exceptional. But I know, having talked to many of them, that they believe it's the most important thing that they did in their life that has left them leaving, feeling fulfilled. And they are going to do more of that, more community action, more engagement with community groups in the future. So how do we structure a culture in which we don't wait for a crisis for people to step up and serve? One of the ideas I talk about in this book is, you know, is it time for mandatory national service? Should we, you know, ask every young person in this country to give six months of exercising that selflessness muscle? I think they'd find that it's inspiring, that it's fulfilling, that it feels a lot better than scrolling on your phone or buying the latest upgrade on an iPhone. And it would build a long term culture in which more people are giving back, more people are caring about the common good, more people are feeling better rather than empty, and less people are susceptible to the demagoguery of somebody like
- [16:41]
Nicole Wallace
Donald Trump and to all the disinfo. I mean, it's sort of, it sort of gets at the root cause. I want to ask you about that. I want to ask you more about your plans for the future. We have to sneak in a quick break before we do that. We're going to talk more, though, about action and the people taking action to deal with our divisions across our country. Plus, we'll look deeper into last night's results in Texas. And while it was technically a win for Donald Trump's preferred and deeply flawed candidate, there are a lot of people in the Republican Party who are saying out loud that they are very worried about the talent of the Texas Democrat who could now very well prevail in the general election in November. Later in the broadcast, we'll look at the voter outrage growing beyond Texas and why Donald Trump and the group of loyalists he's isolated himself with and around are continuing to ignore and dismiss the very vocal concerns of American voters, including many in Trump's political coalition. We'll get to all those stories and much more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. We're back with Senator Chris Murphy. Senator, you write this. Everything in America not nailed down has become a commodity, even middle school hockey. Every minute of our lives is fodder for profit maximilization. And when everything exists primarily for someone else's gain, even your child's Saturday afternoon game, it breeds emptiness and resentment. That discontent doesn't stay contained. It spills inevitably into our politics. Donald Trump is a symptom, not the cause, of America's spiritual unraveling. Make no mistake, he is no ordinary symptom. He could prove fatal to our 250 year experiment in multicultural democracy. But our nation would make a grave error if we believed we could repair what is broken within us simply by defeating Donald Trump or his successor at the ballot box. No. A deeper rot festers in the American soul. A callousness toward our neighbors, a me for selfishness, a relentless focus on getting mine, even if it leaves others behind. Today, we worship false cults, profit at any cost, consumerism instead of citizenship, a blind faith in technology, a winner takes all, politics that leave us feeling empty and devoid of purpose. I remember reading George Packer's the unwinding back in 2013, and he's one of these folks who kind of was reporting it ahead of it, warning that the disconnection from one another and from our communities and from our towns and from our churches was sort of putting us on this path. I wonder if you think the solution is in a leader, I mean, will you use this book as a launch point for a bigger role for yourself in national politics?
- [19:35]
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- [20:36]
Senator Chris Murphy
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- [20:46]
Nicole Wallace
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- [21:05]
Senator Chris Murphy
Well, he predicted it and it has come true. I know it may sound a bit controversial for somebody who spends all of his time confronting and opposing Trump to say that Trump is a symptom as much as the cause, and that the actual cause is something much deeper. But I think we have to understand the gravity of this moment. We have to beat him at the polls, but we also have to confront what we all feel in our lives. That there's a coldness about our economy and our culture today. The fact that my kids hockey league is owned by a for profit company that bans parents from live streaming the games for their kids grandparents because they've commoditized the streaming service. They literally buy our kids sports and sell it back to us. The fact that work doesn't feel like it has dignity any longer because we are just pawns in a game to make massive amounts of profit for people that we'll never meet. Technology that is designed to isolate ourselves and to withdraw our kids from socialization, all of it feels broken. And when you feel less meaning and purpose and connection in your life, you seek out these demagogues. So, yes, I'm saying that we have to do both beat him and fix the culture. And what I argue in crisis of the common good is that it's a crisis, but the things necessary to regulate technology and build a common good, capitalism, those are actually things that right and left have a lot more agreement on. Yeah, they might disagree on climate and abortion and immigration, but there's some commonality between right and left on this crisis. Yeah, obviously. I wrote this book because I want to be influential in rising this challenge to fix our culture. And, you know, it's interesting, I've gotten, you know, a couple texts just in the last 24 hours from some of my friends and colleagues who I know are running for president in 2028 who say, listen, I think you really hit on something. And I text back, well, let's talk about this. Let's do something together. And if we can build this conversation in the left about the spiritual disintegration of the country and what we have to do to build, to build a common good, to bring Trump's base into this conversation, to maybe create a bigger coalition, well, that would be. That'd be a great success in and of itself.
- [23:23]
Nicole Wallace
You're describing a role as in the conversation. Are you ruling out running yourself?
- [23:29]
Senator Chris Murphy
Oh, I don't know what I'll do in the future. I guess I do want this to be at the center of the conversation. I do want us to, to rise to this moment. And I also think that it's kind of inappropriate for anybody to be working on their own political agenda right now. As I said, I've spent all the last couple of years putting my money, like, not into an account that I can use to run for future political office. I've been literally putting it all out onto the streets of this country to support citizen led groups, because I just think that that should be what we work on right now, is saving our democracy and supporting citizens and, like, not worry right now about what comes next for each of us personally.
- [24:11]
Nicole Wallace
Is the decision to put the money into citizens taking direct action a rejection of the Democratic Party structure?
- [24:20]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah, a little bit, yeah. I mean, I wish more of my colleagues did what I'm doing. I mean, I don't think all of us need $10 million, $20 million in the bank when our democracy is literally at risk. And there are a lot of citizen groups that badly need money. You know, when these no Kings events started popping up, I found out that there were a lot of really small groups of citizens that, like, couldn't even find enough money to, you know, rent a stage or a speaker system or get, you know, liability insurance for a protest. And so, you know, I just wrote a check for a big check to those little no Kings groups, those little indivisible groups all across the country. And yeah, I think we should be doing more of that and maybe putting less of our money into official party structures, at least right now when the democracy seems at risk and it's citizens, not politicians, who have the most legitimacy in fighting back.
- [25:14]
Nicole Wallace
I am very familiar with the voices that were available in the hours after Donald Trump won a second time. And yours is one of the few. You were one of the few people who was still speaking out about the dangers his second term represented. You were one of the few people communicating directly to voters. You were using your social media, sort of direct to camera videos like the one we played in our intro. And I went back and watched some of them. And every single thing you warned about the corruption. I think some of the early ones after he, after the inauguration were about doge, around the oligarchs, around him, around every single thing has come to pass. As someone who predicted a lot of what he would do and has already done it in year one, what are your warnings about what else he'll do in the next three years?
- [26:05]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah, I mean, in a lot of those warnings that I was issuing in those early days, you know, some of my colleagues said, hey, tone it down, like you're gonna scare people. I mean, you're saying that he's trying to rig the election. People will give up if they think that there's maybe not gonna be a free and fair election. My contention was, no, it's exactly the opposite. People in this country aren't ready to give up on democracy. They think it's broken and corrupted, but they're not ready to give up. And so if we tell them that it's at risk, people will actually show up. And that's exactly what has happened over the last year and a half. I just think we have to level with people about what the stakes are. I mean, make no mistake, he's building that ballroom because he doesn't think he's going anywhere. You know, even if he may not run for another term, he thinks his family is gonna still be in charge. He thinks he's building a monarchical structure in which he and his family and his cronies never leave the White House. And so, yes, if we don't stand up for our democracy, if we don't win this November, he is gonna feel empowered, emboldened. There are gonna be more people who are scared of him, more institutions in this country who will fold. And it might be the end of our democracy. But that's not where we're heading right now, Nicole. We're heading on a path to actually have a free and fair election. We have defended most of his attempts to try to rig the rules. More citizens are involved than ever before. They're making horrible mistakes. And so as alarmist as I have been, I am optimistic. I'm also optimistic about the stuff I talk about in this book. How do we rebuild the common good? You know what? Church membership is up. There are more independent bookstores being launched. Some kids are throwing out their smartphones and starting to use these dumb phones. Right?
- [27:49]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. I mean, the Star tacit, it makes you feel 100 years old. When they ask you what a startech is, you're like, what?
- [27:56]
Senator Chris Murphy
I know, I know. But so I the book is about policy that we need to rebuild, a sense of common good, a more humanitarian, more communitarian nation. But I also see the same citizens that stood up for our politics and our democracy in Minneapolis starting to say, you know what, I want to shop at a local retailer. I don't want to spend all of my time online. And so the book, in the end, is a book that gives a positive prescription about how we can beat this guy and build a community in which we care more about each other.
- [28:28]
Nicole Wallace
Senator Chris Murphy, someone who has never shied away from these conversations, thank you so much for spending time with us today. The book is called Crisis of the Common the Fight for Meaning and Connection in a Broken America. It is out right now. When we come back, Donald Trump's all out revenge tour against a member of his own party backfiring bigly, only helping to lift up Democrat James Tallarico. We'll dig into it with our political panel next. Donald Trump's latest political purge in Texas is keeping hope alive for Democrats that they can flip that Senate seat blue in November. Ken Paxton's victory last night hands the Democratic nominee, Texas State Representative James Talarico, the matchup he wanted heading into November's general election. While Republicans in Texas were battling ahead of yesterday's runoff, Talarico has been building his coalition and political star power. As a sign of the advantage, Tall Reno could now have. Politico reports this quote. Within two hours of Ken Paxton's GOP primary win Tuesday, Talarico had hauled in $600,000, the strongest two hours of his entire campaign. And if there's any indication that Talarico is a tough candidate to run against, it's these attempts by Ken Paxton to attack him last night as a vegan.
- [29:54]
Senator Chris Murphy
My opponent is the most extreme radical the Democrats have ever nominated. He's even running a vegan campaign, whatever that is. I've even heard some people call him James Talafrico and others refer to him
- [30:07]
Nicole Wallace
simply as Low T. Talarico.
- [30:09]
Senator Chris Murphy
He's a threat to our very way of life and our values.
- [30:12]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, he's a vegan who thinks
- [30:14]
Senator Chris Murphy
God is non binary. And
- [30:17]
Nicole Wallace
I'm not sure any of those things are true. Talarico, for his part, took those petty insults in stride. Watch his response.
- [30:26]
Senator Chris Murphy
Well, Ken Paxton is morally unfit for office. He'll lie to you with a straight face. He's failed the character test. He's the most corrupt Attorney General of our lifetime and he puts the interests of himself over the laws of Texas. Those aren't my words. Those are the words of Ken Paxton's fellow Republicans. This November, working Texans, Democrats, Independents and Republicans alike are going to come together to defeat the most corrupt politician in America and the broken political system that he represents.
- [31:00]
Nicole Wallace
I want to bring into our conversation. Staff writer at the Atlantic video podcast host David Frum is back and joining me at the table, senior political analyst, host of the podcast Runaway country on Crooked, Alex Wagner is back with us. Let me show you just sometimes it's he said, he said, Sometimes it's he said, the Democrat said. And Joe Rogan agrees with the Democrat. Let me show you Joe Rogan and Talarico.
- [31:28]
Senator Chris Murphy
Look, if you have so much interest in getting to the bottom of this, like universally on both sides of the aisle, and yet nothing gets done, that, that tends to give people this, this, this fear that cynicism is the correct perspective. And, and I want to, I want to validate that, that there, there is reason and good reasons to be disillusioned. I guess I'm, all I'm pushing back on is that second step of it's always going to be this way. Right. It doesn't have to be this way. That is the key step. Right. So I, I, I'm not on, you need to run for president.
- [32:08]
Nicole Wallace
We need someone. Again, David from I play that because Talarico is never going to be successfully caricatured the way Ken Paxton wants to. When you've got Joe Rogan sort of pre endorsing him as such a good person, he should, quote, run for president. What is your sense of what happened last night?
- [32:33]
David Frum
I'm going to be a bit of a downer on this one.
- [32:35]
Nicole Wallace
For many of the folks watching, that's okay.
- [32:39]
David Frum
I don't think in today's hyper polarized American politics that character matters very much. I really don't. Yes, there are Roy Moore's. I mean, if you're as bad as Roy Moore and if you're running in a special election, then you might lose by what did Roy Moore lose by 20,000 votes. And then the person who beat you, Doug Jones, might hold office for a couple years until your state reverts to form. But I think people vote highly ideologically and highly tribally. And to any Democrat who does that, look, look what's happening in Maine. The argument in Maine is the Senate seat is too important for character to matter very much. And that argument is probably going to work. So there are going to be all kinds of questions about the Democratic candidate, but the Democrats are going to rally anyway. And because of the disaffection of President Trump and the general climate of Maine, Maine voters are probably going to look, aside from character, Texas voters are the same. Every argument that is going to be made for Paxton you can make in the mirror and make it about sorry for Platner will be made in the mirror about Paxton and people will vote tribally. And the question I have about Talarico is I remember once talking to someone who was an expert on a very obscure area of art. And I said, how do you know when something is real or fake in your area? And he answered, if you like it right away, it's not going to work because they didn't make it for you. And one of the things I am a little alarmed by is Talarico is perfect for the national liberal fundraising audience, but is he perfect for law and order, culturally conservative Hispanic men, the people who swerve to Trump in 24 and who need to be pulled back if the Democrats are to take back the Senate and take back Congress? I think he's a little too perfect for the donors and a little too not perfect for the people who actually will decide the race?
- [34:30]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, I think Alex forces us to grapple with another question, which is how big of a wave does it take? And when you look at the polls out today, it suggests that the wave will be massive. I mean, the elections that are being had in deeply red pockets of deeply red states. Martin Taylor Greene's race swung 24 points. Other specials are swinging well beyond any sort of margin that would have swept Republicans in a place like Texas in safely. Maybe you have to just have both conversations when you're talking about Texas. Yeah.
- [35:02]
David Plouffe
And I think the notion that's so resonant right now is the notion of corruption. And you see that resonating in red states across the country, in Senate races across the country. And nobody better exemplifies corruption than Ken Paxton, who has Donald Trump's endorsement. Ken Paxton who was impeached by 60 Republicans in the Texas State House. Ken Paxton, who was accused of adultery by his wife. Ken Paxton who was impeached. Ken Paxton who has charges of security fraud and bribery. I mean, he embodies the, the degradation of public office. That is, I think, you know, a powerful narrative, but especially so now when people can't afford to fill up their tanks and they can't afford to put groceries on the table. That's why corruption, you know, circa 2024 versus 2026 is much more powerful, I think, as a narrative. So, I mean, setting aside James Tallarico and whether he's perfect, too perfect or not, I'll tell you who ain't perfect, and that's Ken Paxton. And James Tallarico is beating it by 13 points on shepherding the economy and on 15 points on values. So, you know, he's got some points in his favor in addition to an incredibly weak candidate he's running against.
- [36:10]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I mean, of all the Democrats, he might be the most talented. And of all the Republicans, Paxton might be the most flawed. It would have to almost be, to David's point, a purely tribal frame that a majority of voters put around it. We'll keep this conversation going. We have to sneak in a quick break. We'll all be right back. On the other side,
- [36:37]
Alex Wagner
Why does Ken Paxton go easy on child predators? A Waco attorney, Adam Hoffman, sexually abused a child for three years, and Paxton gutted the case, offering him just a slap on the wrist. 11 fine homes for Ken Paxton to keep. Now Texans ask how that wealth run so deep. There were LLCs stacked in a tangled up heap, some hidden from sunlight and buried down deep. A shell game of wealth all twisted from view, built so the people could not follow through. Ken Paxton was focused on his own scandals instead of running the Attorney General's office. Cheating on his wife with multiple women, tearing apart his family and the family of A married woman, he was involved with private travel and buying luxury properties across the country with wealth his government salary can't explain. The Democrats are not going to play nice because they see a chance. The Democrats believe they have a chance to win the general. And I got a message to Republicans in Texas and nationwide. Do not take this general election for granted.
- [37:50]
Nicole Wallace
Amen to that.
- [37:51]
Alex Wagner
It is easy to say, it's Texas, it's red, we're gonna win, and I believe we are gonna win. But I also think the Democrat nominee, James Tallarico, is a dangerous candidate.
- [38:05]
Nicole Wallace
Alex, who needs Democrats when you've got John Cornyn's paid ads and Ted Cruz's podcast. But I just thought it was interesting. I'm guessing most of our viewers didn't see the paid media that John Cornyn was running against Talarico. Deeply, deeply personal. Telling the story of personal corruption, to David Frum's point, the character flaws, and then Ted Cruz saying to his own party, like, be careful. This is not a gimme.
- [38:33]
David Plouffe
Yeah. I mean, let's keep in mind that Ted Cruz, one of the least likable people maybe in America, maybe in the universe, has a higher favorability rating than Ken Paxton in the state of Texas. I think the Republican concern about this isn't just that Ken Paxton could actually give Democrats control of the upper chamber, but now the Republican Party is gonna have to spend, by some accounts, up to $250 million to defend Ken Paxton, to defend that seat. I mean, that is money that could be used in important, critical elections in, I don't know, Michigan, Ohio, North Carolina, Georgia, places they want to. Either Republicans either want to flip or hold onto. I mean, this is going to have a ripple effect across the party, to say nothing of the damage it's gonna do Trump in terms of his own agenda and getting it through Congress with the enemies he's made just in the last few weeks. I mean, it is a catastrophically bad decision to put Ken Paxton on the general election ballot. And it is, I really, honestly, I think a dictionary definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Sorry John Cornyn didn't kneel. More at a lower elevation.
- [39:40]
Nicole Wallace
To kiss the negative 90% instead of 99.5%.
- [39:44]
David Plouffe
It's a prolific fundraiser for the party, raised 400 million DOL dollars for other Republicans. A member of Republican leadership was behind every tax bill that Trump wanted to pass. I mean, you look at someone who stood in line, and that was John Cornyn. But no, in favor of the person who is the adulterer, the person guilty of bribery, the person who's been impeached and is wildly disliked. Ken Paxton's the name on the ballot.
- [40:09]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I mean, I understand your point, David Frum, about tribalism and about what's broken. I mean, it's the conversation I just had with Senator Murphy. But I wonder if you think there's a floor, right, where enough voters could be discontent about the economy and the war in Iran and the way things are going, that this could at least be an open question in your mind.
- [40:31]
David Frum
I think it will be discontent. It'll be an open question in many places. But Alex's point about the waste of money that Republicans will have to do to defend taxes applies to Democrats, too, is they will waste a lot of money in an attempt to gain taxes. I mean, the basic Democrat. What I see, what I worry a lot about coming into the cycle is the Democratic plan seems to be give away winnable seats in Maine and Michigan and gamble everything on this desperate chance in Texas. And I think it would be a better use of both resources, time and emotional energy to say, why don't you nominate winnable candidates in Maine and Michigan, where the discontent really will make a difference, rather than do this enormously expensive reach in Texas, which is going to be one of the most difficult states, or with a candidate who's not aimed. Where Democrats have to be aimed in order to change Texas. Texas will go Democratic when there is a culturally conservative Latino Democrat at the head of the state ticket. That's what will change the state, and that's not what they're doing. Instead, they're taking risks elsewhere that they shouldn't be taking and gambling everything on spending their $250 million in the very difficult terrain of tax.
- [41:36]
Nicole Wallace
You're shaking your head.
- [41:37]
David Plouffe
I just think. I mean, I've had. Getting Ken Paxton to be a viable candidate is going to be a lot more expensive than getting James Talarico to be a viable candidate. And I do not think anybody in the Democratic Party is taking for granted what's happening in Michigan. We have a primary in August. I'll be moderating a Senate candidate for him on Crooked Media with all of them. I think that the, you know, there's been a lot of discussion and debate about what's happening in Maine. That is absolutely a priority. And the reality is James Talarico has $27 million in the bank and Ken Paxton has like two. So if we're talking about expenditures, I'd rather be a Democrat in this race than a Republican.
- [42:08]
Nicole Wallace
And I think Democrats, we've talked a lot about Trump vibes. It'll be an interesting test to see if Democratic vibes can translate to Democratic electoral outcomes. I think that's another one of the open questions that we'll all be watching. David Frum, Alex Wagner, thank you for joining us today. After the break, Kash Patel fires another career FBI official for what our reporting again finds purely political reasons.
- [42:36]
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Nicole Wallace
At DSW, we ask the important questions like what shoes are you going to wear? Whether you're prepping for wedding season, festival season, or just planning the ultimate vacay, the right shoes can make or break an rsvp. So own the moment. You've got big plans, and we've got just the shoes at the perfect price, of course. Get ready to get ready with designer Shoe Warehouse. Head to your DSW store or dsw.com today and let us surprise you. FBI Director Kash Patel has done it again. He has reportedly ousted another analyst over a partisan grudge. That's according to brand new reporting from our own Kendelaneon. This grudge is almost a decade old. It ties Back to the 2017 Republican Congressional Baseball shooting. The FBI analyst, Deputy Assistant Director Emily Morales, played a role in the FBI's report that did not label the shooting an act of domestic terrorism, which upset House Republicans. Kandelanean sources tell him that her removal was widely perceived inside the bureau as the latest in a series of firings of nonpartisan FBI agents who did their jobs in a way that drew disfavor from Donald Trump or Republicans. Now the FBI is down yet another experienced agent. And by our count, those numbers are stacking up. The number was already at 300 as of March. After the break, it's not just Democrats. Republicans, too, are showing real anger at feeling completely ignored and dismissed by Donald Trump's administration. We'll dig into that new reporting and a whole lot more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. Don't.
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Alex Wagner
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Nicole Wallace
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Alex Wagner
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