"Companies that are choosing to side with this administration and everything they stand for"

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House

Episode Title: "Companies that are choosing to side with this administration and everything they stand for"
Host: Nicolle Wallace (MSNBC/NOW)
Date: June 17, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Nicolle Wallace leads a searing discussion on corporate complicity in the Trump administration’s latest controversial public spectacle: a widely criticized, corporately-sponsored UFC event staged at the White House. The episode examines the normalization of bigotry at the highest levels, corporate America's silence in the face of racist attacks, and how these shifts contribute to the corrosion of democratic norms and public values. Wallace is joined by civil rights attorney Maya Wiley, legal expert Mark Elias, Media Matters President Angelo Carusone, and journalist Greg Bluestein. The conversation is anchored in current news cycles and provides sharp analysis on the implications for democracy, business ethics, and the political landscape, including a look at the hotly contested Georgia Senate race.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The White House UFC Event: Corporate Complicity and Public Outrage

• Backdrop (00:49-07:13): The White House hosted a UFC event sponsored by major brands (Meta, Budweiser, Monster Energy, Ram Trucks, Crypto.com), featuring Trump’s branding everywhere.
• Notable Scandal: After winning a fight, UFC fighter Josh Hokutt made a transphobic and racist slur about Michelle Obama (“Michelle Obama is a man.”) (03:14).
• Silence of Sponsors: Despite public condemnation from unlikely figures like UFC CEO Dana White and Barstool’s Dave Portnoy, none of the event’s corporate sponsors denounced the remarks (03:14-13:18).

Notable Quotes:

• Nicolle Wallace [03:18]: “It’s been met with silence from Donald Trump, from Joe Rogan there... from all the high ranking people who were there, from all the successful companies...companies sponsored the event and… have said nothing about the guy that won the fight screaming ‘Michelle Obama is a man.’”
• Dana White (read by Wallace) [04:20]: “Everyone knows my position on free speech, but I hate that kind of nonsense.”
• Dave Portnoy [11:47]: “When you have that on the White House lawn on [an] event you put down, I don’t care what you think about the Obamas...that has to be an immediate denounce.”

2. The History and Impact of Racist Tropes Targeting Black Women

• Maya Wiley (07:13-09:49): Outlines the racist, dehumanizing stereotype used against Michelle Obama, placing it in the historical context of attacks on Black women.
• Tangible Consequences: Wiley stresses that when corporations choose silence, they grant public permission for broader discrimination and signal to marginalized communities that their safety is secondary to profits.

Notable Quote:

• Maya Wiley [07:13]: “Black women since the days of slavery have had their femininity taken away from them for the purpose of abusing our labor...that’s quite candidly part of what the Trump administration has so actively done.”

3. Corporate America’s Changing Rules Under Trump 2.0

• Analysis by Oliver Darcy (quoted by Wallace) [05:55]:
  • Business leaders believe close ties with the administration are “necessary to advance their broader business goals.”
  • Many companies opt for silence, fearing retribution from an increasingly vindictive White House.
  • "Corporate capitulation to Donald Trump as his approval ratings plunge is where we begin the hour…”
• Mark Elias [15:55-17:45]: Details a pattern of hypocrisy among corporations—statements against insurrectionists post-Jan 6, followed by resuming support quietly.
• Angelo Carusone [21:15-25:47]: Explains how enabling fringe, hateful speech at the White House mainstreams extremism—from the “fringes to the front lawn.”

Notable Quote:

• Mark Elias [17:45]: “When they say they care about democracy, they are lying. When it becomes convenient for them… they will be lying then.”

4. Polling and Public Sentiment

• Poll Results (20:28): Reuters/Ipsos poll shows only 16% of Americans approved of Trump’s UFC event at the White House; 84% found it inappropriate or were unsure.
• Carusone’s Take [21:15]: Despite overwhelming public disapproval and the obvious “grift,” powerful actors did nothing because, structurally, the incentives now favor enabling or ignoring Trumpism.

5. The Trump White House “Ballroom” and Taxpayer Grift

• Bombshell Reporting (28:51-32:48): Wallace highlights a Washington Post exposé that Trump’s promised “no taxpayer money” for his gold-plated White House ballroom is false—over half the project's $600 million costs will come from public funds.
• Mark Elias [31:09]: Connects the “smash and grab” governing style to Trump’s broader anti-democratic, anti-accountability approach—preparing to suppress votes and subvert elections, as in 2020.
• Maya Wiley [33:28]: Argues the administration is “surpassing” autocrat playbooks—every policy move demonstrates disregard for both rules and ordinary Americans’ well-being.

Notable Quote:

• Mark Elias [31:09]: “If you want further proof that Donald Trump is going to try to suppress the vote and subvert the election results, just look at how he is acting… He is not acting like a man who thinks that they are going to win the elections through the persuasion of voters.”

6. Georgia Senate Race: Ossoff and MAGA Endorsements

• Greg Bluestein on Election Dynamics (37:13-40:14):
  • Jon Ossoff, once considered an underdog, now favored against hardline MAGA candidates.
  • Discussion on why Trump keeps picking “the worst general election candidates,” hurting broader Republican chances.

Notable Quote:

• Greg Bluestein [38:42]: “Trump continues to sort of gravitate towards the folks who were the most MAGA warrior in Georgia… and now we’re seeing it again with Mike Collins.”

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Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• [03:18] Nicolle Wallace on silence from Trump, Rogan, and corporate sponsors.
• [04:20] Dana White’s rebuke of the anti-Michelle Obama remark.
• [07:13] Maya Wiley on racism and the history of dehumanizing Black women.
• [09:59] Sen. Raphael Warnock: “This idea that black women aren’t really women and black people aren’t really people harkens to the darkest days in our country’s history. This is not political speech. This is immoral speech.”
• [11:47] Dave Portnoy: “That has to be an immediate denounce.”
• [15:55] Mark Elias: “Corporate America has been coward in the face of Donald Trump...Corporate America… has turned its back on democracy.”
• [21:15] Angelo Carusone: “All the people with power, all the entities with power to draw a line decided not to.”
• [28:51] Wallace (quoting Trump): “We didn’t ask for any tax money. We have no taxes as taxpayer free.”
• [31:09] Mark Elias on election subversion and taxpayer grift.
• [33:28] Maya Wiley: “Once you say we don’t care about the rules, we don’t care about the norms...We only care about ourselves.”
• [38:42] Greg Bluestein: “He possesses the unique ability to offend female voters…but also with the hardest right abortion stance you can have, he will lose the Atlanta metro in unprecedented fashion... Trump continues to... pick the worst general election candidates.”

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Additional Insights

• Normalization Warning [25:47-27:28]: Both Carusone and Elias warn against normalizing racist, fringe behavior enabled and underwritten by mainstream corporations.
• Host Accountability Pledge [27:28]: Wallace promises to ask every day if corporate sponsors are “good with” the racist comment made at their event.
• Ossoff’s Evolution [40:02]: Bluestein and Wallace reflect on Jon Ossoff’s evolution as a combative, mood-matching candidate.
• Structural Concerns: Guests lament the deepening entanglement of corporate and political interests, which profits from enabling extremism and silencing dissent even as the vast majority of Americans disapprove.

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Concluding Reflections

This episode is a powerful indictment of corporate and institutional cowardice in the face of rising authoritarianism, naked bigotry, and grift. The panel and host call for accountability—not just from politicians, but from every institution claiming a role in upholding American ideals. As the battle for the soul of democracy continues, the episode closes by promising continued scrutiny, especially on those corporations enabling corrosive politics by choosing silence over principle.

Transcript

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[Host]

What a God awful mockery of an

[Panelist 1]

event that somehow managed to find a

[Host]

way to devalue both combat sports and our national dignity.

[Panelist 1]

Who even aired this embarrassing the event

[Host]

aired on Paramount plus

[Panelist 1]

and what a

[Political Reporter (Greg Bluestein)]

fine event it was.

[Legal Expert (Mark Elias)]

Once, once again, the leaders of Paramount

[Host]

plus providing us all with incredible content at

[Panelist 1]

reasonable prices.

[Host]

I get Everybody. It's now 5:00 in the east, the one and only Jon Stewart calling out his own parent company for its coverage of Sunday's gross display of USC UFC fighting at the White House. And while he may have been making a joke there, his message about the companies that are choosing to side with this administration and everything it stands for, especially this birthday party excess, is serious. What Trump posted at the People's House was a massive, massive sponsored event. The huge logos of Meta, Budweiser, Monster Energy, Ram Trucks, Crypto.com and others were plastered everywhere, everywhere the eye could see. It was all over that garish structure that was erected on the White House lawn. California's Governor Gavin Newsom called it un American, saying, quote, the White House was built to serve the American people. Tonight it was used to promote a company the president owns stock in to sell subscriptions to promote corporate sponsors to push Trump crypto and enrich the President and his family. The founders warned us about kings enriching themselves from public office. They did not fight a revolution for this. And then the financial backing of this event became even more disturbing, even more gross after the winner of one of the fights, Josh Hokutt, made this disgusting comment following his win. I would prefer to ignore this, and I did yesterday. But for this to be broadcast from the White House with all these corporations sponsoring it on a day supposedly celebrating our country and patriotism, this has to be called out and covered and lastly,

[Panelist 1]

Michelle Obama is a man.

[Host]

Am I right, America? Importantly, Joe Rogan, in an inexplicably bizarre short tie, says nothing. Nothing. Obviously not someone who can think on his feet. It's a despicable thing to say about the former first lady of our country and yet something that has been met with silence from Donald Trump, from Joe Rogan there, who was holding the microphone, literally holding it, could have pulled it away, could have said, that's too far, could have said, no, she's not. It's been met with silence from everyone who attended. It's been met in silence from all the high ranking people who were there, from all the successful companies that lots of people support by buying their products. Those companies sponsored the event and those companies leaders have said nothing about the guy that won the fight screaming, michelle Obama is a man. Someone did push back and I'll admit I was somewhat surprised by who it was. UFC's CEO friend of Donald Trump, Dana White, denounced that comment. He said, quote, I understand that the Obamas are public figures, but I'm completely against saying nasty and false things about people's families. Everyone knows my position on free speech, but I hate that kind of nonsense, end quote. So for once, good for that statement from that person. But it makes it all the more stunning that none of the companies have said anything. And that lack of condemning those comments, the lack of outrage from anyone else, speaks volumes. Our friend Oliver Darcy at Status is covering this and he writes this, quote, the rules governing corporate America have changed in Trump's second term. Business leaders like Ellison and Zuckerberg have concluded that maintaining a cozy relationship with the White House is necessary to advance their broader business goals. Others have opted to keep their heads low, fearful of becoming targets of a vindictive president. It has all led to Trump and allies like Hokut being enabled to shred basic norms of decency and conduct themselves and conduct themselves in reprehensible ways, all with the support of billion dollar corporations. While Trump and Hokut are ultimately responsible for their appalling conduct, major titans of business putting their dollars behind such events and refusing to stand up for basic civility are complicit too. Oliver Darcy reached out to the companies we just mentioned, the sponsors, and as of late this afternoon before we came on the air, none of them have condemned the comments. None of them have even responded. Corporate capitulation to Donald Trump as his approval ratings plunge is where we begin the hour with voting rights attorney and founder of Democracy docket, Mark Elias. Also joining us, Media Matters for America President Angelo Caracones here, and civil rights attorney and president of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights. Maya Wiley's here. Maya, the Obamas are in the news in a way that the whole country is remembering everything they loved about them and miss about them. They are, if not the two most popular and respected people in the country than two of the most popular and respected people in the country. And that has always driven Donald Trump crazy, absolutely out of his mind. So that's just a data point. I don't know if that's because this UFC fighter person just had this on his mind or if it's because they're in the news in such a prominent way that inspired him to say what he said. But your thoughts about this kind of speech being platformed by Donald Trump and all of his corporate allies?

[Civil Rights Attorney (Maya Wiley)]

Well, let me start by saying this. This is racist. This isn't just an attack on Marshall Obama because she is significantly more popular than Donald Trump, which happens to be substantiated from poll after poll after poll. It's that she's a black woman. And I'm saying this plainly because the truth is this trope against black women is not new, and this trope against Michelle Obama is not new. In fact, Joan Rivers said it In 2014, Alex Jones was one of the perpetrators of extending this racist trope. And I'm the reason I'm saying racist is because black women since the days of slavery have had their femininity taken away from them for the purpose of abusing our labor. And that's quite candidly part of what the Trump administration has so actively done, including with his executive orders from the beginning of this term, where it's literally said anything that suggests diversity, equity, inclusion should be celebrated should be protected. Anything that understands it as a way of protecting people from employment discrimination or ensuring that they're getting a fair chance for a promotion or any other number of ways in which we have a Civil Rights act of 1964 that we have been saying, including the corporate sector that we champion is about allowing and giving permission to racist stereotyping and tropes. It is what we've seen from Pete Hegseth when he has said and blocked promotions of black women who white men in the military have said are qualified for those promotions. It is to give permission and to give permission in a very public way that says you are now allowed to discriminate. You are allowed to do all of the kinds of attacks. And the truth is, it is awful that this happened to Michelle Obama. It is not only happening to Michelle Obama. But if you allow it to happen to Michelle Obama, it is the rest of society that continues to suffer without any of the protections that we have fought the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights have fought for for 76 years. And as we talk about where and how we ensure we have a multiracial democracy, this is what we cannot allow. Corporations are staying silent because they think their bottom line is protected by capitulating. The truth is, none of us are safe if this is allowed.

[Host]

Let me show you what Senator Raphael Warnock said. It's very much in line with the points you're making, Maya.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

This idea that black women aren't really women and black people aren't really people harkens to the darkest days in our country's history. This is not political speech. This is immoral speech. This is bigotry. This is evil come alive in words because words have power. And if you can diminish people, if you can say that there's something other, then that opens the door for you to unleash the kind of cruelty that we're seeing under the Trump administration. Donald Trump has unleashed a kind of evil in the ether of the American experience. And this is a moral moment in America, and it's time for people to stand up. We know who he is.

[Host]

I mean, Maya, I like to think that people, American people, are standing up in this moment. People of Minneapolis stood up for each other. I think people are nodding along with everything you just said. I nodded when I saw Senator Warnock say that last night. But what's so stunning is that corporations that depend on people that are protected by massive amounts of money and insulation won't denounce what people inside this fighting world will denounce. I mean, that quote I read you was from one of Donald Trump's good friends. It's from Dana White, I think has an office in the White House. He condemned the comments. This is Dave Portnoy, the founder of Barstool Sports. Here's what he said about the smear against Michelle Obama.

[Dave Portnoy]

He won the fight. He took the microphone and he made a derogatory comment about Michelle Obama. To me, that on the. The White House lawn. Now, these are UFC guys, all right? They're crazy. They're idiots. You have Sean Strickland, who's one of the craziest people of all time, to the point you can't even pay attention to what he says. Snuck in. But when you have that on the White House lawn on event you put down, I don't care what you think about the Obamas or anything, that has to be an immediate denounce.

[Host]

So again, I'm not, I'm not quoting Dana White and Dave Portnoy for any reason other than to illustrate how completely out of step these corporate sponsors are with all of America if they've lost Dana White and Dave Portnoy. I mean, this is speech that is so appalling that shame on those corporations for not being out with statements. And it's not too late. I mean, if they release the statement in the next 45 minutes, I'll read it. But the fact that they have stayed silent while people from inside the coalition have not made points as powerful as yours, but they've said this is wrong. I mean, and again, don't come after me. If you like the ufc, this is your guy calling them quote, idiots, quote crazy to the point you can't pay attention to what they're saying. But saying you have to call it out. It's an immediate denounce. Where are we that these corporate sponsors or to the wacky of Barstool Sports and Dana White?

[Civil Rights Attorney (Maya Wiley)]

I think these corporations are thinking about their immediate self interest rather than their long term economic positions. Because as we have seen, first of all, black people, Latinos, people of color in this country have a tremendous amount of purchasing power and we've seen that put to use. We saw it with our protests on target when it dropped its own diversity, equity, inclusion commitments. We saw it from the Congressional Black Caucus, the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights. We supported the Congressional Black Caucus when it called on corporations to support voting rights, something we have long been able to rely on corporations to be vocal about because it's just fundamental and central to having a free and fair democracy, which means they are also free to have a free economy and do business without undue influence from the federal government. But that's exactly what we've had is under influence. And to your point, there are a lot of us standing up and asking for our corporate allies to be allies. There are a lot of corporations we've been able to celebrate, like Costco, who have stood up. But it's also important to acknowledge that it is bigotry, as Mr. Portnoy so rightly said and Mr. White did not, and it must be called out for that. But that extends into the variability of our communities to have a voice over who leads us to have voting rights, to have the power that a civil war and decades of civil rights struggle have ensured that we all have a fair opportunity to have people in the White House or in the State House or on the school board who are also going to see that we matter and that we have a voice. And corporations are going to feel the implications from black people if they don't do right.

[Host]

They should, he should hear from what they should hear from all of us. Let me just name those corporations again. Mark Elias. The Trump hosted event was sponsored by or there were logos plastered everywhere from Meta. This is the new name for Facebook, I guess, Budweiser, Monster Energy, Ram Trucks, Crypto.com and others who again, to me, the man bites dog of this story is that you've got prominent people inside the MAGA coalition saying these comments were appalling. And you've got all these corporations with lawyers and PR people that have said jack diddly squat. Your thoughts?

[Legal Expert (Mark Elias)]

Yeah, look, we've talked a lot on this show about the cowardice of large law firms. The large law firms are just taking it from their clients. I mean, corporate America has been coward in the face of Donald Trump, frankly, going back to his first term. Like, you know, after January six, all these corporations, you know, issued nice statements saying how they were not going to support any of the insurrectionists or candidates that, that, that, that voted to not certify the election. They now all support those insurrectionists and the candidates and office holders who support that, you know, corporate America, you know, which once claimed to be able to do anything. You know, when it came to voter suppression laws in 2021 under Joe Biden, they announced that they couldn't do anything. And so we over and over and over again see that corporate America is turned its back on democracy. You know, you mentioned Paramount, Paramount owns CBS News. Paramount is soon to likely own cnn. Have we heard anything from, from the, from Barry Weiss who's been put in charge of those companies, has she denounced this? Has David Ellison, the owner who, who sought these approvals, has he said anything? You know, I mean, there's just an absolute deafening silence on the part of the large corporations like the large law firms, like, you know, too many of the other large institutions of society in the face of what Donald Trump means. And it is absolutely immoral, it is absolutely wrong. And it just goes to show that when they say they care about democracy, they are lying. When, when it becomes convenient for them in two years or four years for them to say that they stand with the American people, they will be lying then. And we should remember not to celebrate or believe their lies.

[Host]

The other thing is, you will not, I have to sneak in a break. But you will not believe how few Americans approved of this event at all. I mean, it is a sliver of Trump's own sliver of support among the American people. Less than half of the people who remain enthusiastic about his presidency thought it was a good idea for Trump to host this event. I'll put that question to Angelo. On the other side of a very short break. Also had for us, Donald Trump's other big obsession these days, his gilded White House ballroom. That too is deeply unpopular. And now it turns out it is going to cost the taxpayers, all of us, way more than Donald Trump told us. We'll have bombshell new reporting from the Washington Post on the cost and the corruption of Trump's extreme makeover or what is supposed to be the people's House ahead. Also ahead, Georgia Senator Jon Ossoff is a rising star in the Democratic Party and the country. He's up for re election this year ahead of what many are hoping could be a run for president. Tonight, Senator Ossoff will learn which Republican he will be facing in November. And Democrats are hoping it's Trump's guy. I'll tell you all about that race jet then. White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

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[Host]

We're back with Mark Angelo and Maya Angelou. These are the polls I was talking about. Reuters Ipsos asked, quote, is it appropriate for Donald Trump to host the event, the UFC event, at the White House. Just 16% of Americans said yes, 46% said no, 38% said neither. They were unsure. So 84% of Americans either think it's inappropriate or aren't sure about its appropriateness. So you've only got 16% of Americans who are enthusiastic about this event. And then you've got Dana White, the president of the ufc, attacking the comments, attacking Michelle Obama. And you've got Dave Portnoy, sort of the poster boy for the manosphere, the original, condemning the lack of people denouncing the comments. What a mess.

[Analyst/Commentator]

Yeah, I mean, look, a couple of things. One, obviously 84% of the people don't want this, but yet doesn't really matter, right? Because 100% are going to pay for it in some way. And that's part of the, there's sort of a few mechanics or machines sort of operating in simultaneous here. And that's why I think this is a, is actually a significant story, because it puts a spotlight on a few things. One, it puts a spotlight not on what, you know, these comments from this sort of gross doofus, but on the fact that all the people with power, all the entities with power to draw a line decided not to. And so now in this one off, if that was the end of it, it would just be a one and done. But part of the issue here is it puts a spotlight on the second thing, which is how something, as Maya noted 10 years ago, was relegated to the fringes, makes its way to the front lawn of the White House. That's this larger right wing media ecosystem. And when you have people in power to draw a line that don't draw a line at these significant one offs and in fact think it's in their business interest not only to not draw a line, but maybe to help clear the way so that these, that the machinery supporting Trump's lies and storylines, that right wing ecosystem can operate with impunity, that people can get away with this kind of stuff, in fact, even make it a business model, you actually help make it. You speed that process along, you enable it, you make it possible for things to go from the fringes to the front lawn of the White House. You mainstream These ideas. And like I said, it isn't just about this. It's about how so much has transformed. This is just a reflection of the larger sort of corruption and grift that's happening underneath the surface. And that then gets to the final point that you were making with those, that stats. I mean, it's remarkable that only 16% of the country doesn't want that, thinks it's inappropriate. Although certainly I bet those numbers are worse now. And yet it still happened. And yet still, still people are paying for it. And you can look across the spectrum and that's the case in all kinds of places. Iran, the ballroom, these monuments, all the gilding he is doing. I mean, this was supposed to be a public event and it was behind a paywall. I mean, the grift is so obvious now that people are anticipating it. They didn't know that some ridiculous comment was going to be made. They, they just, they were responding to the grossness of the event itself. And that's sort of, to me, the big through line. Everybody knew, the public knew, but so did all the participants. This is not the first time this guy has said that. Pocket has said that. He started saying that a year ago after he won fights. Dana White knew that he was saying this afterwards. This is not, this is not a new thing. He's been saying this. He says it on right wing media podcasts. They could have told him to knock it off beforehand, but nobody did. And that's it. The people with power to draw a line are not only not doing it, they're enabling this. And so even when it's stopped, you know, the real question of who's going to, we're going to end this party will be in November. There's going to be a lot of cleanup even if we do end the party. And that to me is what I see when I look at this whole picture. Spotlights on a few things. This engine of corruption and grift and grievance that is sort of polluting our day to day lives.

[Host]

What are they, what is the grievance? What are they mad about literally doing? I don't like their thing. I don't think they look like they're doing anything great, but they must be happy in their tights. Like what are they so pissed off about? Angela?

[Analyst/Commentator]

Yeah, I mean, look, the Michelle, the Michelle Obama stuff started a way back. Rush Limbaugh, this is a, this is a bridge between the old school Rush Limbaugh and sort of the fringe, the fringe ideas because he did two things there. He didn't just say that she was a man, which is sort of a fringe conspiracy. He used the moo shell comment, which is what Rush Limbaugh used to call her. And that's where it started. A lot of the conservative, the right wing, the part of the Maha people back then, their frustration with Michelle Obama was all on the dietary stuff and all the food. They said she was controlling their food there. She was trying to manipulate them and control them. And it became sort of a way to attack the Obamas broadly, not just about control, but then it got into all the other racial elements to it. And then the last thing we can't ignore it is that she is wildly popular. I mean, in 2021, Joe Rogan not once, but several times predicted that if she ran in 2024, she would beat Donald Trump because she's smart and likable and she represents the right things. I mean, he was a Michelle Obama booster. And so of course, they attack the strengths and there is no actual real grievance underneath it. It's just that they have to go after what they see as popular. And it's a reinforce that they're, you know, even if they can't drive the culture, they can at least tear things down, as they demonstrated both with physical monuments, but also so much of our norms.

[Host]

I just don't ever want it to be normal that the men in tights without shirts on are screaming into mics to a guy wearing a tie that goes to here racist smears about Michelle Obama. And some of the biggest corporations in America with people who still very much would like to float around in polite society have said nothing. I mean, that should never become normal. Marcolaes.

[Legal Expert (Mark Elias)]

No, it shouldn't become normal. But, you know, look, this is what Trumpism has done to the corporate leaders of this country. I mean, it shouldn't be normal that they sit behind him on the stage at a swearing in. It shouldn't be normal that they make up awards to give Donald Trump. It shouldn't be normal that, that they, they, they act like his policies make any sense. It shouldn't be normal that they give parts of their companies to, to, to him and, and buy his crypto trash. Like, none of this should be normal. But here's the thing. We're not going back to the days of Joe Biden and Merrick Garland and the norms. So what we have to do is we have to accept that we are where we are and we have to wake up every single day and figure out how are we going to combat this how are we going to stand up against it? How are we not going to bend a knee to it? How are we not going to give it an inch? And how are we going to hold accountable when we have the opportunity to the people who have in fact become not just complicit in this, but have become collaborators in it, they are not just letting it happen, but they are profiting from it happening.

[Host]

So for my part, I will ask every day then if the sponsors and I only know the ones I saw in the images. I don't actually have Paramount plus, so I just saw the clips on the Internet, but I saw the images of Meta, which I think is Facebook, Budweiser, Monster Energy, ram trucks and crypto.com. so I guess I'll ask every day if they're good with the guy that won the fight saying what he said about Michelle Obama. What did they say? What did the kids say? TikTok when we come back, that blockbuster new reporting about the soaring price tag for Donald Trump's tacky gold gilded ballroom that no one was asking for. The price is going up and how much of it taxpayers are now responsible for is too. We'll bring you that new reporting next.

[Panelist 1]

It's a donation that's being given by companies, very rich companies, very rich people, so that for 150 years they've wanted a ballroom here. We didn't ask for any tax money. We have no taxes as taxpayer free. We have no taxpayer putting up $0.1,300 to $400 million depending on finishes. If I use very expensive marble, if I use very expensive wall coatings, if I, I could bring it up to 400.

[Host]

How many of you knew that, that we've been wanting a ballroom for 150 years. Literally nobody has been wanting a ballroom for 150 minutes. That was back in March. Five months have passed since that nonsense, since Donald Trump actually took a bulldozer, an actual bulldozer, to the actual east wing of the White House with plans for a massive tacky gold plated ballroom in its place. But today there's bombshell new reporting that reveals that publicly Trump has significantly lowballed the cost to taxpayers and has lied to, to the American people by promising us that we would not as taxpayers be funding any of this ballroom. From that new Washington Post report, quote, a detailed project summary prepared for the White House by the contractor more than three weeks before Trump's comments estimated the total construction cost at $600 million, with more than half of that coming from taxpayers. According to a copy of the contractor estimate obtained by the Washington Post. In fact, according to the reporting, quote, multiple project summaries provided to the White House by Clark Construction show that internal cost estimates have been significantly higher than administration officials have acknowledged in public comments or court filings. They also show that the work was projected to rely heavily on taxpayer dollars from the moment it was announced. Washington Post is also reporting that the White House refused to answer questions about the internal cost estimate or taxpayer funding. We're back with Mark Angelo and Maya. Mark, I know no one is going to be shocked watching this program that one, Trump was lying the whole time and two, that the taxpayers are going to fund this. But if you look at Trump's existential political crisis right now is that he's so deeply unpopular he's likely to drag Republicans down in House and Senate contests and spend the next two years, to quote John Cornyn in the, quote, most miserable two years of his life. That is a crisis that is exacerbated by his indifference to what taxpayers are going to fund at the same time that those very same Americans are paying exorbitant prices both for gas and groceries and housing and everything else. How do you take in this new reporting on this story?

[Legal Expert (Mark Elias)]

Now, look, if you want further proof that Donald Trump is going to try to suppress the vote and subvert the election results, just look at how he is acting, right? He said that, you know, he's, he's happy with inflation. He's now sticking the cost of the ballroom that nobody wants to the taxpayers. You know, you put up before the, how unpopular this whole UFC fight was, even before the outrageous comments, you know, every time Republicans on the Hill ask him to do something to pass a popular piece of legislation, instead he, he tries to attach the SAVE act to it, right? He is not acting like a man who thinks that they are going to win the elections through the persuasion of voters to vote for Republicans. Instead, he's acting like an autocrat, someone who thinks that when the time comes, it comes to it, he will prevent the postal service from delivering mail in ballots to voters he doesn't want to, that will perhaps seize ballots through the FBI or the Department of Justice, will investigate and indict his political enemies, and if necessary, will try to overturn the elections first in court and then through extrajudicial means. Now, if that sounds familiar, it's because it's what he did in 2020. It's, you know, how many of you who are watching this came to know me because I represented President Biden and the DNC in defeating those efforts and court. And we are setting up once again a structure in which Donald Trump does all of these unpopular things because he thinks he has an ace in the hole in voter suppression and election subversion come this November.

[Host]

Maya, the conduct certainly all connects in the way that that Mark Elias articulates. The rub, though, is that an autocrat, well, at least the autocrats that we've studied in modern history, Orban, move more strategically and frankly more slowly. I mean, there's such a smash and grab to this that the people who are revolted. We covered the New York Times story yesterday. I mean, white, non college educated voters have swung more dramatically in the last 18 months than at any point in modern history against Trump. What is your sense of where this is all taking us?

[Civil Rights Attorney (Maya Wiley)]

Well, I think you just said it. Nicole and Mark certainly said it to look, voters, no matter the voter, is often voting on their well being. They're often voting on whether their problems are getting solved and whether their lives are getting better or worse. And right now we are talking about an administration that has, to your point taken, what was Project 2025, remember Project 2025, which basically said it was going to weaponize government, it was going to decimate government's ability to do some of the services and investments in people that are quite frankly, quite popular. And it was going to do it driving a form of extremism. We were just talking about in your previous segment when we were talking about bigotry and racism that includes Michelle Obama and the capitulations around it. I mean, this was a playbook and a plan to, to your point, what happened when they got in is I think they've surpassed it because once you say, once you say we don't care about the rules, we don't care about the norms, we don't share the principles, the fundamental principles of a democracy. And it's not just about whether we disagree on policy, is that we don't care about people. We only care about ourselves. And they're making that plain to the American people, even people who might agree with some of their policy positions, maybe a lot of their policy positions, but yet they can't put gas in their gas tank. Their Head Start programs have been cut. They can't afford to see a doctor when they're sick. They're wondering if they're going to be able to pay their mortgage. Some folks can't get insurance against the weather. The hurricanes that this administration has said are fake news. I mean, you just go down the list and there's simply no measure of life that I can certainly find where mainstream Americans would say we're going in a great direction, we're much better off. My life is so much better.

[Host]

Right. And even that he says out loud, you know, I love the inflation numbers and I don't care about people's economic situation. I paying attention in front of it's all in front of all of us. I could talk to the two of you for the whole two hours. We'll have to do that next time. Mark Elias, Angelo Caracom, Maya Wiley, thank you so much for starting us off this hour. When we come back, why Democrats consider Senator Jon Ossoff a candidate to watch, even a potential presidential contender in 2028. First, he needs to win re election in Georgia. And tonight he and we will find out who he's going to be running against, how today's elections could show us who has the edge for control of Congress. We'll explain after a short break. In just a little over an hour from right now, polls will close in Georgia and incumbent Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff, a rising star in Democratic politics, will learn his Republican opponent in that state's crucial Senate contest. Once again, this Republican primary runoff is a referendum on the power of Donald Trump's endorsement. Donald Trump has endorsed Republican Congressman Mike Collins. Mike Collins is running against former college football coach Derek Dooley, who himself was endorsed by Georgia's Republican governor Brian Kemp. Democrats are feeling hopeful about Ossoff's chances. Back in April, the nonpartisan Cook Political Report shifted the Georgia Senate race from a toss up to a lean Democrat contest. Joining our coverage, Atlanta Journal Constitution chief political reporter and our contributor Greg Bluestein's here. Greg, take us inside the dynamics. This feels like Texas 2.0.

[Political Reporter (Greg Bluestein)]

Yeah, it's very complicated. But I think we lead with the fact that if you had told me a year and a half ago that Jon Ossoff was being considered the favorite in November, I would have thought you were crazy because he's the only Democratic incumbent running in a race in a state that Donald Trump won in 2024. But that's the that's the mood on the ground. And Governor Kemp, he didn't just endorse Derek Dooley. He kind of almost created him from whole cloth as a candidate, at least recruited him, drafted him, surrounded him with his team, helped clear the field for him, all that and tried to get Donald Trump to stay on the sidelines. And that worked until Sunday. And so now it's a battle over electability with both candidates saying that they're the only candidates who can beat Jon Ossoff in November.

[Host]

What is it about Donald Trump and guys that are crummy general election candidates? I mean, the. This is, this is something that we have from our reporter Hunter Whittall. Quote, if you went to a laboratory and tried to create the worst general election candidate for this state and environment possible, you couldn't do better than Mike Collins. That was from a prominent Georgia Republican strategist who spoke anonymously. Quote, he has a ton of personal baggage and won't be able to raise money. He possesses the unique ability to offend female voters with that personal baggage, but also with the hardest ripe abortion stance you can have, he will lose the Atlanta metro in unprecedented fashion, and we have to hope he doesn't take everyone else down with him. Why does Trump keep picking these terrible candidates?

[Political Reporter (Greg Bluestein)]

That is strong quotes. And, you know, that's not as sharp as Derek Dooley's argument, but that's essentially Derek Dooley's argument, which is that someone like Mike Collins, someone, anyone with a political record, can't be Jon Ossoff. It has to be an outsider. But with Mike Collins in particular, he has a long and contentious history of social media, provocative and very controversial social media remarks. And of course, he has a pending ethics investigation in the House Ethics Committee right now that Republicans from really, from both camps have been saying could come back to haunt Mike Collins if he is the nominee. But Trump continues to sort of gravitate towards the folks who were the most MAGA warrior in Georgia. And we saw that with Herschel Walker. We saw that with, with David Perdue back in 2020 and 2021, the runoffs. And now we're seeing it again with Mike Collins.

[Host]

What do people make of Ossoff's really sort of finding his voice and matching the mood not just of Georgia, but of the country?

[Political Reporter (Greg Bluestein)]

Well, if you go to any of his rallies, and he has these rallies on weekends every maybe four or five weeks, and they're attracting huge crowds. And you're seeing a lot of Democratic voters who are saying exactly that, that he's matching their mood. They want a more combative tone. They want more confrontational approach. And, you know, if you.

[Legal Expert (Mark Elias)]

Again, same thing.

[Political Reporter (Greg Bluestein)]

If you had told me, I don't know, when I first met John ossoff back in 2017, that he would be this avatar for that, I would have been stunned. But he has evolved into this sort of candidate over the last decade.

[Host]

You and I have been having those conversations since 2017. We've been stunned together. News cycle after news cycle. And we're so glad to have you there on the ground for us. Greg Bluestein, thank you for joining us today. We'll circle back tomorrow. Ali Velshi will be at the big board tonight as these results in Georgia start to come in. So don't miss that. One more break for us. We'll be right back. My guest on this week's episode of the Best People podcast is our friend, the journalist Don Lemon. Many of you probably already know him from his long tenure at cnn. But he's gone independent, which for him he says has been both exciting and sometimes pretty scary. Take a listen to what he told me about that. What are the pros and cons?

[Don Lemon]

Well, I think it's great. It's a lot of work.

[Host]

I mean, you feel exposed. I mean, you don't have.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Of course.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, yeah, I feel exposed because, you know, when you're working in the corporate structure, you're their lawyers.

[Thumbtack Advertiser]

Are your lawyers.

[Don Lemon]

Right. Their security is your security. Um, their standards and practices are your standards of practice. You're a researcher, all of that. So, you know, you're, you're in this protective bubble. But now you're exposed, which is good because you're closer to the bone. You're, you know, you're not in a high rise. You're living down where the, where the people are. And I think that there's tremendous benefits to that. But, you know, there are some drawbacks because you are exposed and people can attack you and the administration can come after you and the government never runs out of money, so they will do whatever they can. The government never runs out of money, but so, you know, Paramount is never going to run out of money or News Corp is never going to run out of money. So you have those resources, but not when you're an independent person. But I think the thing that feels great about being independent is that you

[Thumbtack Advertiser (continued)]

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[Host]

I got you.

[DSW Advertiser (Sierra Miller)]

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[Don Lemon]

There are no gatekeepers.

[Host]

I loved this conversation. The whole thing is out now on YouTube. You just scan the QR code up on your screen right now to watch. Or you can download the best people wherever you get all your podcasts. Take a listen. Let me know what you think. Another break for us. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes tonight. We are grateful.

[DSW Advertiser (Sierra Miller)]

Why have we asked our contractor we found on Angie.com to be our kids legal guardian? Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust him to care for our kids.

[Host]

We only met a month ago.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Angie.

[Don Lemon]

The one you trust.

[Legal Expert (Mark Elias)]

Define the ones you trust.

[Host]

Find pros for all your home [e-mail].