Deadline: White House

Host: Nicolle Wallace (MSNBC)
Episode: "Difficult to use superlatives"
Date: November 7, 2025

Episode Overview

On this episode of Deadline: White House, Nicolle Wallace leads an urgent and incisive discussion on the intensifying politicization of the Department of Justice under Donald Trump’s administration. The central theme is Trump's continued efforts—nine years after the 2016 election—to leverage federal power against perceived enemies, especially through investigations into key figures involved in probing Russia’s interference in the 2016 election, such as former CIA Director John Brennan. The episode also explores the implications of an ongoing government shutdown, congressional efforts to constrain executive military action, Democratic Party resilience after significant electoral victories, and the retirement of Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Politicization of DOJ and Renewed Russia Probe

• Trump's Influence Over DOJ:
  Nicolle Wallace opens the program highlighting the “dangerous” level of Trump’s control over the DOJ and criminal investigations, emphasizing the administration’s efforts to revive conspiracy theories around the Russia probe and target Obama-era national security officials, such as John Brennan.

  "[I]t is challenging to find the right superlatives to... Describe Donald Trump's politicization of both the immense power of criminal investigations and the complete takeover of the Department of Justice's prosecution decisions." (00:20)

• Grand Jury Subpoenas & Targets:
  Ken Dilanian, MSNBC justice & intelligence reporter, details his scoop about upcoming grand jury subpoenas in an investigation focused on the CIA’s and FBI’s 2017 probes of Russian election interference, specifically scrutinizing John Brennan—despite past exhaustive reviews finding no wrongdoing.

  "[The investigation] is being led by the U.S. attorney in Miami... because the Mar A Lago search took place in that district. And so that's the criminal nexus, we are told." (06:37) "The issue, of course, as everyone on this panel well knows, is there's no evidence to support any of this." (07:36)

• Lack of New Evidence:
  Brennan’s previous exhaustive interviews (over 9 hours with investigator John Durham) yielded no evidence of misconduct, a point Brennan himself reiterates:

  "I think Bill Barr said that it appeared as though CIA stayed in its lane... it was very surprising that this is happening now. I don't think there's any new evidence that's been uncovered at all." (03:50, John Brennan)

2. Theories & Motivations Behind the Investigations

• Origins of the Probe:
  The investigation was reportedly initiated after a criminal referral by Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard, who held a highly-publicized press conference alleging a "treasonous conspiracy" by Obama’s team—a claim not substantiated by prior investigations.

  "[I]t was reported that Pam Bondi had initiated it pursuant to a criminal referral from the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard." (05:07, Ken Dilanian)

• Disinformation & Narratives:
  Panelists express skepticism about whether those driving the probe believe the conspiracy theories or use them to punish enemies, highlighting the role of narrative dominance and political retaliation:

  "I'm not sure in my own mind right now whether the folks that articulate the theory of this case actually believe this stuff or whether this is just a technique designed to punish their perceived enemies." (05:23, Ken Dilanian)

• Forum Shopping & Legal Irregularities:
  Legal experts like Andrew Weissmann call out the procedural violations and "forum shopping" by moving the case to South Florida, aiming for a favorable judge, compared to the careful venue decisions by Special Counsel Jack Smith.

  "Announcing and leaking that you are issuing subpoenas is in complete violation of FBI and DOJ rules... you have a real dichotomy in terms of the way in which you’re supposed to behave and the way in which they are behaving." (12:17, Andrew Weissmann)

3. Impact on Law Enforcement/DOJ Culture

• Chilling Effect on DOJ/FBI Staff:
  Michael Feinberg warns that such politicized prosecutions dissuade career FBI agents and prosecutors from taking controversial cases, out of fear that a future administration may target them personally:

  "No FBI agent and no line prosecutor is going to want to work on anything remotely politically controversial...a president can now come in and essentially say, well, the facts that you cite aren't true...This isn't how a country, let alone an investigative agency, is supposed to function." (16:37, Michael Feinberg)

4. Government Shutdown & Congressional Dynamics

• Clash over Shutdown Blame:
  Nicolle spotlights Sen. Jackie Rosen (D-NV) confronting Sen. Bernie Moreno (R-OH) regarding responsibility for the ongoing government shutdown, sharply framing Trump as the ringleader.

  "Donald Trump is in charge of the White House. He's actually speaker of the House these days, as he alleges himself, and he's pretty much in control of the Senate. He could stop this shutdown right now by calling a group of Democrats and Republicans together..." (27:15, Sen. Jackie Rosen)

• Impacts on Essential Services:
  The shutdown’s effects, such as threats to air traffic control and SNAP (food assistance), are discussed as intentional pain infliction by the Trump administration, a departure from previous presidents’ tendencies to reposition after midterm losses.

5. Congressional Oversight & Military Strike Accountability

• Effort to Restrain Executive Military Action:
  Senator Rosen describes bipartisan attempts to force the Trump administration to justify and get Congressional approval for strikes in the Caribbean and Eastern Pacific, criticizing the White House's lack of transparency:

  "[The president] needs to come to Congress. You need to show us that intelligence...this is going to hold him accountable. We hope that this passes." (30:35, Sen. Jackie Rosen)

6. Democratic Victories, Pelosi’s Retirement, & The Path Forward

• Hope After Electoral Wins:
  Nicolle highlights renewed Democratic optimism after sweeping victories, including California’s Prop 50, sparking hope for retaking Congress and defending democracy.

  "[I]t's almost hard to recognize the feelings of hope that have emerged among the Democratic Party after Tuesday's landslide victories..." (33:59)

• Celebrating Nancy Pelosi’s Legacy & Leadership:
  Panelists, including former Biden aide Mitch Landrieu and Alex Wagner, reflect on Pelosi’s transformative career, her fierce opposition to Trump, and her role in championing both resistance and positive agendas.

  • Memorable quote:

    “She is one of the greatest public servants and really one of the strongest speakers that we've ever seen in the history of the United States...She is as proud as anybody that we swept the field on Tuesday night.” (35:46, Mitch Landrieu)

  • Alex Wagner recalls Pelosi’s tenacity:

    “She looked at me and she said... 'Alex, I eat nails for breakfast.' I just remember thinking, yes, Lady Warrior, you sure do.” (38:26)

• Lessons for Democratic Strategy:
  Pelosi’s “both/and” message—fight Trump, but also offer tangible policy alternatives—is emphasized as key to maintaining momentum.

  “...you got to fight hard and you got to fight back and you got to work hard and it will pay off.” (41:23, Mitch Landrieu)

7. Federal Judge Orders Full Restoration of SNAP

• Judicial Pushback:
  Breaking news segment: Judge John McConnell orders the Trump administration to fully fund the SNAP program, castigating them for “irreparable harm” caused by the shutdown:

  “People have gone without for too long. Not making payments to them for even another day is simply unacceptable.” (44:26, Judge McConnell statement shared by Nicolle)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On DOJ Politicization:
  • “Announcing and leaking that you are issuing subpoenas is in complete violation of FBI and DOJ rules.”
    — Andrew Weissmann, 12:17
• On Trump’s Narrative Control:
  • “Trump's grip on narrative dominance, at least with his supporters and clearly inside the political appointees at the Department of Justice, is near absolute.”
    — Nicolle Wallace, 16:10
• On the Consequences for DOJ Staff:
  • “No FBI agent and no line prosecutor is going to want to work on anything remotely politically controversial...a president can now come in and essentially say, well, the facts that you cite aren't true.”
    — Michael Feinberg, 16:35
• On Pelosi’s Tenacity:
  • "Alex, I eat nails for breakfast."
    — Nancy Pelosi (as recalled by Alex Wagner, 38:26)
• On Democratic Strategy:
  • “You have to push [Trump] back. The way that you push him back is to win elections...But you have to be, you have to do both. And, and she [Pelosi] has never shied away from either one of those things.”
    — Mitch Landrieu, 40:42

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment/Topic | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Opening framing of Trump's DOJ politicization & Russia probe | 00:20–03:44 | | John Brennan responds to investigation | 03:44–04:32 | | Ken Dilanian explains his DOJ investigation reporting | 04:59–08:11 | | Andrew Weissmann and panel on evidence & forum shopping | 09:51–14:25 | | Michael Feinberg on politicization’s effect on DOJ/FBI culture | 16:35–17:48 | | Panel discussion on “Mike Davis” and grand jury irregularities | 18:06–19:58 | | Sen. Jackie Rosen v. Sen. Moreno: shutdown blame | 25:14–26:54 | | Rosen on shutdown impacts/Trump’s role | 27:15–28:27 | | Discussion of midterm lessons and Trump’s lack of self-reflection | 29:08–30:04 | | Rosen on war powers and Congressional oversight | 30:04–31:47 | | Pelosi’s career and impact celebrated by Landrieu & Wagner | 35:42–39:14 | | Lessons for Democrats: Pelosi’s “both/and” approach | 40:42–41:29 | | Federal judge orders SNAP restoration | 43:25–44:26 |

Final Thoughts

This episode provides a wide-ranging analysis connecting DOJ politicization to broader democratic and institutional challenges under a Trump administration, while also spotlighting stories of political resilience and strategy among Democrats. The panel underscores the extraordinary stakes of DOJ investigations targeting public servants, the dangers of narrative manipulation, and the essential role of seasoned leadership—with Nancy Pelosi’s legacy as both a cautionary and inspiring case study. The episode concludes on hopeful notes of judicial accountability and Democratic momentum, while remaining vigilant about ongoing threats to institutional norms.