Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House
Episode: "Donald Trump's vengeance and retribution campaign has a new target"
Date: November 26, 2025
Host: Nicolle Wallace (MS NOW)
Key Guests: Michael Feinberg (former FBI assistant special agent), Tom Nichols (The Atlantic, Naval War College), Melissa Murray (NYU Law Professor)
Episode Overview
In this episode, Nicolle Wallace and her panel discuss the latest escalation in what they describe as Donald Trump’s “vengeance and retribution campaign,” now targeting six Democratic lawmakers, including Senator Alyssa Slotkin, for participating in a video advising US military personnel to refuse unlawful orders. The analysis dives into the unprecedented FBI investigation, the use of government power for intimidation, and the broader implications for American democracy and the rule of law.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Trump’s Retaliation Against Lawmakers
- Main story: Six Democratic lawmakers, all veterans or with national security backgrounds, appear in a video urging service members to uphold their duty to refuse illegal orders.
- Trump's response: Publicly labels the act as "punishable by death" and pushes the FBI and Pentagon to investigate these lawmakers.
- Senator Alyssa Slotkin’s situation: Slotkin, a former CIA analyst and Pentagon official, reveals she is under investigation by the FBI’s counterterrorism division and now has 24/7 security due to threats.
- "A source tells us the FBI has contacted Capitol Police to try to schedule these interviews." (01:50)
2. FBI and Military Investigations
- FBI Director Kash Patel’s statement (paraphrased at 02:29–03:00) claims only career agents make investigative decisions; Michael Feinberg disputes this, stating investigations are politically motivated and led by a partisan group.
- Feinberg: “We know for a fact that a lot of the more controversial decisions… have not been made by career agents. They've been made by this odd group of retired agents who share Patel's political beliefs.” (06:34)
- Intimidation of Senator Mark Kelly: Pentagon threatens to recall him to active duty for court martial, with Trump allies publicly mocking his service and medals.
- Sen. Kelly: “I've had a missile blow up next to my airplane... I've flown a rocket ship into space... But I'm not going to be silenced here.” (04:37)
- “He didn't like what I said... I'm going to show up for work every day, support the Constitution, do my job, hold this administration accountable.... He’s not going to silence us.” (05:10)
3. Constitutional and Legal Perspectives
- Feinberg on FBI practice: Investigating solely on the basis of First Amendment–protected speech is unprecedented and forbidden by FBI policy.
- “...this is actually, I think, one of the most problematic things we've talked about on this show since the inauguration... if the FBI is opening investigations solely on the basis of constitutionally protected activity, at this point, we've really crossed a Rubicon...” (08:06)
- Melissa Murray: Emphasizes Congress's constitutional role in military oversight and the legitimacy of lawmakers’ comments.
- “...there is a good argument to be made not just with the First Amendment, but with the basic oversight powers that Congress has in this area...” (10:48)
- On process as punishment: “The process, though, is the punishment here. It's making you worried, making you have to lawyer up... it's intimidation all the way down.” (17:56)
4. Broader Implications for Democracy and Public Service
- Tom Nichols: Trump and allies view the military as a personal tool and see public dissent—even in defense of the Constitution—as betrayal.
- “Donald Trump believes the US Military should be his personal muscle... not to Congress, not to the Constitution, not to the American people.” (13:35)
- “...It's meant to generate death threats... They want to release the flying monkeys to swarm these people with anger and death threats and just make their lives miserable...” (25:41)
- Discussion on the chilling effect: The strategy is about intimidating not just current dissenters, but anyone thinking of standing up to Trump.
- “That's the whole point of all of this. It's intimidation all the way down.” (17:56)
- Nichols on leadership: Trump’s appointees engage in “peacocking” to show loyalty, regardless of constitutionality (12:45).
5. The Human Cost: The DOJ Purge
- Wave of resignations at DOJ and FBI: Career staff purged or driven out amid political pressure.
- Farewell letters cited: Staff recount loss of dedication to justice, trauma of public service under hostile leadership.
- “There is no mission, no matter how important, that cannot be done with compassion and respect. And that's something that is totally lost upon current FBI and DOJ leadership.” – Michael Feinberg (36:07)
- Melissa Murray: Erosion of civil service protections, upcoming Supreme Court case could worsen the purge.
- “We're literally going to purge the federal government... These are experts, career professionals being pushed out on a whim.” (42:03)
6. Reflections on Government Leadership and Public Trust
- Feinberg on current administration: “These are the most immature people who have ever occupied the executive branch in the history of the United States... they care about trappings of power in as much as they can leverage them for personal aggrandizement.” (29:27)
- Call to action for voters: Murray and Wallace emphasize the importance of voter accountability and public engagement to defend democracy.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- Sen. Mark Kelly: “Is it stressful? I've been stressed by things more important than Donald Trump trying to intimidate me into shutting my mouth and not doing my job... He’s not going to silence us.” (04:48–05:10)
- Michael Feinberg: “If the FBI is opening investigations solely on the basis of constitutionally protected activity, at this point, we've really crossed a Rubicon whose significance people may not get right away, but is going to be a seismic event in the long term.” (08:06)
- Tom Nichols: “Donald Trump believes that Article 2 means he owns the military like he owns buildings or owns anything else.” (13:35)
- Melissa Murray: “The process is the punishment... this is no way to run a democracy... the idea of a government where everyone just sort of acquiesces and says yes... that's not a democracy. That's a monarchy... an autocracy...” (23:13)
- Feinberg on purged agents: “To have that ripped from you the way so many have… it's the most heartbreaking thing that's ever happened to me. And every person I've spoken to…feels the exact same. It's a wound that is never going to heal.” (38:13)
Important Timestamps
- 01:09 – Episode proper begins: Six Democratic lawmakers investigated for video telling military to disobey illegal orders.
- 02:29–03:00 – FBI Director Kash Patel’s evasive response regarding the investigation.
- 04:37–05:10 – Sen. Mark Kelly’s powerful response to threats and intimidation.
- 06:34–08:06 – Michael Feinberg details politicization of FBI investigations.
- 10:48 – Melissa Murray on Congress’ constitutional role in military oversight.
- 12:45 – Tom Nichols dissects why Trump views lawful dissent as treachery.
- 13:35 – Nichols: Trump sees military as his personal muscle.
- 17:56 – Murray: “The process is the punishment.”
- 25:41 – Nichols: The smears and threats are the point—intimidate into silence.
- 29:27 – Feinberg: Trump’s team “most immature people… in history.”
- 36:07–38:13 – Feinberg shares the emotional toll of being purged from public service.
- 42:03 – Melissa Murray: Dismantling civil service is being normalized in public discourse.
Tone & Language
The conversation is urgent, analytical, and direct—reflecting deep concern for constitutional norms and the health of American democracy. The guests use vivid imagery to convey the stakes (“crossed a Rubicon,” “release the flying monkeys,” “process as punishment”), balancing legal expertise with personal stories of public service and sacrifice.
Conclusion
This episode provides a detailed, sobering look at the intersection of politics, law enforcement, and democracy in the current era. From live threats and intimidation against lawmakers, to the politicization of federal investigative agencies and the purging of career professionals, the panel warns of escalating authoritarian tactics and calls for public vigilance and institutional resilience.