Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House — “Everyone Wants This to End”

Host: Nicolle Wallace
Guests: Malcolm Turnbull, Sue Gordon, Susan Rice
Date: August 18, 2025

Overview

This episode centers on the most pivotal day yet in ongoing diplomatic efforts to end the war in Ukraine. Nicolle Wallace covers an extraordinary summit taking place at the White House, featuring Donald Trump, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, and key European leaders. The conversation dissects President Trump’s shifting positions regarding a ceasefire, his relationship with Vladimir Putin, transatlantic anxieties, and explores the prospects—and pitfalls—of the diplomatic process. Featuring insights from former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, former Deputy Director of National Intelligence Sue Gordon, and former UN Ambassador Susan Rice, the episode offers a pointed look at global power dynamics and America’s evolving global role.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Summit and Shifting American Policy

• Background & Dramatic Turnarounds
  • President Trump convenes a multilateral meeting with Zelensky and European leaders, following a highly publicized U.S. reception for Vladimir Putin.
  • Trump’s public stance veers from demanding a ceasefire to downplaying its necessity after a meeting with Putin in Alaska.
  • Nicolle Wallace: “Notably, Donald Trump went from being for a ceasefire to indifferent to a ceasefire.” (03:05)

Notable Quote

“Trump looked like the subservient party and Putin looked dominant, being restored to polite society after an illegal invasion and a heinous war.”
— Nicolle Wallace (06:30)

2. Trump and Putin: Analyzing the Relationship

Guest: Malcolm Turnbull (Former Australian PM)

• Putin’s Influence & Trump’s Affinity
  • Turnbull describes Trump’s admiration and fondness for Putin, which appears unyielding despite Putin’s record of war crimes and aggression.
  • Trump frames himself and Putin as “equal victims” of the “Russia hoax,” which strengthens their unusual bond.
  • Malcolm Turnbull: “He does admire Putin, he likes Putin, he's very fond of him...he seems to have a better relationship with Putin than he does with any other world leader.” (05:25)
  • Concern that Trump’s unwillingness to pressure Russia leaves Ukraine with few options—potentially toward “concession, surrender, defeat.” (05:58)

Notable Quote

“What we've all been praying for, Nicolle, is that at some point the scales will fall from Donald Trump's eyes and he'll work out that Putin is not his friend. But he does. The affinity is very real.”
— Malcolm Turnbull (05:25)

3. European Perspective & Security Dilemmas

• European Leaders’ Charm Offensive
  • Allies attempt to flatter Trump, but none build the rapport Putin enjoys.
  • Turnbull warns: If Putin’s expansion is unchecked, the Baltic states—NATO members—could be next. (08:32)
  • Europe’s underinvestment in defense is acknowledged, but so is their dependence on U.S. security leadership.
  • Malcolm Turnbull: “If it doesn't step up to push Putin back, the consequence will be that his aggression will be rewarded and he will then be looking—you know, the crocodile will be looking for its next meal.” (10:59)

Notable Quote

“If Trump is not prepared to use his leverage against Russia, then he uses his leverage against Ukraine, which is effectively pushing Ukraine into ... a defeat.”
— Malcolm Turnbull (06:33)

4. America’s Role: Ally or Unreliable Partner?

• Eroding Trust
  • America is perceived as less reliable under Trump; this is presented not as a failure but as an intentional policy direction.
  • J.D. Vance and Trump invoke Charles de Gaulle to argue for European self-reliance, not perpetual U.S. military support.
  • Consequence: If the U.S. won’t help push back on Putin, it’s “potentially leading into a wider conflict and even a nuclear conflict.” (13:28)

Notable Quote

“If America's allies feel lonelier and less supported, that's not a bug, that's a feature of the administration.”
— Malcolm Turnbull (13:04)

5. Putin’s Appeal to the Right

• Putin’s image as a “tough guy” with selective conservative values resonates with parts of the Western right, despite his brutality.
• Authoritarian style attracts those dissatisfied with liberal democracy’s results.
• Malcolm Turnbull references books by Ezra Klein and Edward Luce to frame the Western vulnerability to strongman appeals (16:00–18:00).

Notable Quote

“There are people who are attracted to the strong man, you know, the tough guy...if you ask what can liberal democracies do to protect themselves against authoritarianism, the answer is they have to deliver.”
— Malcolm Turnbull (15:45)

6. Inside U.S. Intelligence: Trump's Approach Debated

Guest: Sue Gordon (Fmr. Deputy Director of National Intelligence)

• Assessment of Trump’s Strategy
  • Gordon would ask, “What data do you have that suggests that Vladimir Putin has any intention of doing anything other than he has said he was going to do?” (22:10)
  • She finds no evidence of U.S. pressure on Moscow; sees a president chasing a personal win—a “peace deal” rather than substance—and embracing “Putin’s talking points.”
  • Trump offers “thin gruel” on security guarantees, rebuffing European calls for a genuine ceasefire. (24:30–26:00)

Notable Quote

“He basically walked into Alaska saying he was mad at Putin … and he walked out with, essentially, Putin's talking points.”
— Sue Gordon (24:05)

7. Putin & Zelensky: Winners and Losers?

• Putin has ceded nothing; played Trump on issues like election interference; caused turmoil in U.S. politics by reactivating debates over voting security.
• Zelensky, Gordon notes, gets only another meeting and vague promises with “no conditions stated.” (28:30)
• The episode closes with Gordon’s pointed rebuke of Marco Rubio’s claim that the war “doesn’t affect Americans’ lives.”

Notable Quote

“There is nothing that Putin hasn't achieved...he is a careful, studied, practiced professional who knows exactly what he's doing and that words matter.”
— Sue Gordon (28:40)

8. Trump and Putin: Direct Line, Direct Consequences

Guest: Susan Rice (Fmr. U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., National Security Advisor)

• Trump’s Immediate Contact with Putin
  • Trump is reported to have called Putin directly amid the day’s proceedings, bypassing Zelensky after the Alaska meeting.
  • Rice calls this symbolic of who drives the agenda: “Trump quickly ascertained that he wasn't gonna get a ceasefire out of Putin ... and so he melted like a puddle of ice in the Alaska sunshine.” (37:41)

Notable Quote

“He melted like a puddle of ice in the Alaska sunshine ... here we are, days later, and even today...Trump refused to embrace [a ceasefire].”
— Susan Rice (37:41)

9. Election Interference, Disinformation, and Policy Failures

• Trump continues to push the debunked “Russia hoax” narrative, despite bipartisan U.S. intelligence findings.
• Instead of pressuring Putin or providing Ukraine with support, Trump “is rolling out the red carpet, doing military flyovers, giving [Putin] a ride in the presidential limousine and getting none of what he went to Alaska to get.” (41:23–42:52)

Notable Quote

“We are in 2025 and Donald Trump professes to be committed to trying to bring peace to Ukraine ... [but] he is rolling out the red carpet ... and getting none of what he went to Alaska to get.”
— Susan Rice (42:12)

10. Democracy, Voting, and Domestic Implications

• Trump leverages suspicion about voting machines and mail-in ballots, strategies Rice describes as “garbage” and “another attempt to tilt the playing field,” undermining faith in U.S. elections. (43:23)

Notable Quote

“Some 30 countries in the world have mail in voting and guess which one is one of them? Russia. So this is garbage.”
— Susan Rice (43:30)

Memorable Quotes with Timestamps

• “He does admire Putin, he likes Putin, he's very fond of him...he seems to have a better relationship with Putin than he does with any other world leader.”
  — Malcolm Turnbull [05:25]
• “If Trump's not prepared to use his leverage against Russia, then he uses his leverage against Ukraine, which is effectively pushing Ukraine into a… defeat.”
  — Malcolm Turnbull [06:33]
• “If America's allies feel lonelier and less supported, that's not a bug, that's a feature of the administration.”
  — Malcolm Turnbull [13:04]
• “He basically walked into Alaska saying he was mad at Putin … and he walked out with, essentially, Putin's talking points.”
  — Sue Gordon [24:05]
• “There is nothing that Putin hasn't achieved. … he is a careful, studied, practiced professional who knows exactly what he's doing and that words matter.”
  — Sue Gordon [28:40]
• “He melted like a puddle of ice in the Alaska sunshine … here we are, days later, and even today...Trump refused to embrace [a ceasefire].”
  — Susan Rice [37:41]
• “Some 30 countries in the world have mail in voting and guess which one is one of them? Russia. So this is garbage.”
  — Susan Rice [43:30]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:37] Nicolle Wallace opens with summit overview, Trump’s changing policies.
• [05:02–06:51] Turnbull on Trump’s loyalty to Putin, risk for Ukraine.
• [10:04–12:35] Turnbull on European defense dilemmas, U.S. responsibility.
• [15:35] Turnbull on Putin’s appeal to Western right.
• [21:07] Trump’s comments on “everyone wanting to end the war.”
• [22:10–26:45] Sue Gordon critiques Trump’s lack of leverage, adoption of Putin’s talking points.
• [28:32–31:51] Gordon: Putin’s gains, Zelensky’s limited options, effects on U.S. security posture.
• [34:53–37:41] Susan Rice responds to reports Trump called Putin directly, ceasefire diplomacy.
• [40:56] Rice underscores the reality of Russian interference and Trump’s reactive, weakened approach.
• [43:23] Rice on Trump using election “garbage” to distract and undermine.
• [45:26] Closing thoughts.

Conclusion

This episode paints a sobering picture of the state of U.S. global leadership and the perils for Ukraine and European security as Trump’s unpredictable diplomacy and affinity for Vladimir Putin overshadow coherent strategy. Allies are uneasy, the war grinds on, and America’s reliability is questioned. The guests argue that what’s at stake is more than geopolitics—it’s the project of liberal democracy itself in the face of resurgent authoritarianism.