← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"Fight Republican fire with fire"
00:41:41
Nicolle Wallace on states run by Democrats taking a cue from California by attempting to level the playing field and take on the efforts by the GOP to redraw their congressional maps mid-decade.
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- [00:02]
Nicole Wallace
Hey, welcome into Walgreens.
- [00:03]
Mark Elias
Hi there. Hey.
- [00:04]
Nicole Wallace
All right, hon, I'll grab the gift.
- [00:07]
Amanda Carpenter
Wrap cards and oh, those stuffed animals the girls want.
- [00:11]
Mark Elias
Great.
- [00:12]
Nicole Wallace
And I'll grab the string lights and some.
- [00:15]
Billy Nolan
How about I grab some cough drops?
- [00:18]
MSNBC Announcer
This is not just a quick trip to Walgreens.
- [00:20]
Amanda Carpenter
I'm fine, honey.
- [00:22]
Nicole Wallace
Well, just in case. You know what they say, tis the season.
- [00:26]
MSNBC Announcer
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- [01:23]
Nicole Wallace
Again, Everybody, it's now 5 o' clock in New York. Californians showed up in massive numbers on Tuesday. The overwhelming Lee voted for Prop 50 as that state's way to fight fire with fire and fight back against Republican redistricting. But as they say, may very well be the end of the beginning of the process. Maryland's governor Wes Moore announced today the creation of a Governor's Redistricting Advisory Commission in his state. What you heard him refer to there was the acronym for that GRAC to take a look at Maryland's congressional maps and possibly secure more Democratic House seats there. Maryland is among a number of states run by Democrats taking the their cues from California and their voters, attempting to level the playing field and take on efforts by the Republican Party to redraw their congressional maps mid decade. They are responding, of course, to a very public and very brazen pressure campaign being waged by Donald Trump from the Oval Office. Politico reports about the energy in the Democratic Party and pressure on states to act after Tuesday's result. Quote, Virginia Democrats fresh off a resounding victory in state delegate races are advancing a constitutional amendment that would likely net the party two House seats. While national Democrats are preparing to send resources to the state to get voters to sign on. Over in Colorado, Democratic officials there are pushing forward even if the results won't be felt until 2028. Quote. We can't stick our heads in the sand, said the state's attorney general and Democratic gubernatorial candidate Phil Weiser. Quote, we've got to live in reality. Colorado, like other states, has to be prepared to take action. Following Prop 50's overwhelming win, California's Governor Gavin Newsom acknowledged how the fight was necessary to protect American democracy.
- [03:13]
Mark Elias
So tonight I'm proud, but I'm very mindful and sober of the moment we are living in. Donald Trump does not believe in fair and free elections, period and full stop. This is not complicated and it's self evident to anyone paying attention. You start to stack up all of these actions that continue to this moment and will continue in moments to come. But back to this state. Our state of mind was resolute. Our state of mind was resolved to stand firm and to stand tall, to not be intimidated, to not be humiliated, to not fall prey to cynicism.
- [04:00]
Nicole Wallace
The turnout in California, more than 8 million Californian voters cast their ballots when Prop 50 was the only thing on the ballot, the only thing they showed up to vote for shows that Democrats were not intimidated there and they were not afraid to change their minds. This was something they had a different view about last time the question was asked of voters. But the question remains now whether or not other states can replicate California's momentum. Back to Colorado's AG who said this, quote, In a world where Republican states, one after another break the norm mid of mid cycle redistricting, it is neither responsible nor appropriate for Democratic states to say I'm staying on the sidelines. That is where we start the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. Voting rights attorney and founder of Democracy Docket, Mark Elias is here. Also joining us, writer and editor for Protect Democracy, Amanda Carpenter is back with us and MSNBC senior political analyst, contributing host of Pod Save America, host of the podcast Runaway Country. My friend Alex Wagner is still with us. Mark Elias, There are a lot of news cycles that feel like a slog and I saw your post about the slog ahead on Tuesday night while we were covering some pretty remarkable results from coast to coast. So we'll deal with the slog, I promise. I have your eight point list. But first, it feels like Democrats and Gavin Newsom specifically have sort of entered, forcefully entered the conversation how did you feel Tuesday night?
- [05:43]
Mark Elias
Oh, Tuesday night was great. You know, I was on with you, remember the day before and I predicted we were gonna sweep across the country. You didn't do away with that tape. And it exceeded my wildest expectations. Cause it's not just that Democrats won in New York City and in Virgin and in New Jersey. It's not just that Prop 50 was passed, but look at the two Public Service Commission seats that were picked up in Georgia in a landslide. Look at what happened in Mississippi where Democrats broke that state's supermajority. And look at the margins. I mean, just look at the margins. We were talking about people thinking that Cittarelli might win New Jersey or that Mikey Sherwood win by a small amount. She won by a double digit landslide. Prop 50, as you point out, didn't just win because relia Democrats turned out. It was a high turnout election in California and also, by the way, in Maine where Republicans put voter ID on the ballot. And having been lectured for decades by Republicans about how popular voter ID is, it fell by double digit margins and was rejected by the voters of Maine. So look, I said, and I'm sure this is what you're referring to, that my job is not to provide happy talk or to sugarcoat things, but to focus on the challenges ahead. But I agree with you, it was a great night and we should take some time to celebrate.
- [07:01]
Nicole Wallace
Well, and just to underscore and then I promise we'll get to the work ahead. But to see that the voters are so far ahead of some politicians. I mean, certainly the candidates that ran and Gavin Newsom who championed Prop 50 were right where the voters were. But if you meet them in the fight, the voters are ready to fight for our democracy.
- [07:22]
Mark Elias
Yeah, that is really the big takeaway. Right. And I think that one of the underreported stories is not just how, you know, how turnout was really high in California and it passed, but in Virginia, you know, people thought that Virginia was starting to slip backwards. Right. There was talk that the AG race might go the other way. There was talk that the House of Delegates might not see a big shift for Democrats. And what did Democrats in Virginia do? They leaned into the redistricting fight. They leaned into the fight for democracy. And what happened is we saw Democrats in the state House in Virginia pick up 13 seats, an unprecedented majority for Democrats in that state leaning into saying we're going to do something about redistricting. We saw Democrats when all the statewide elected officials there. And I think it goes to your point, if voters See that Democrats are willing to stand up and fight hard for democracy. Voters are already there. Voters want Democrats to meet them in that place. And that is what we saw happen. And I'll just add, by the way, Politico says that Democrats will gain two seats in, in Virginia. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It should be a 101 map. Democrats should shoot for four more seats in Virginia.
- [08:34]
Nicole Wallace
Amanda, the fight is underway. I think Republicans count on, actually Gavin Newsom said it, so I'll just quote him. Gavin Newsom said at an event, I think on election night or the night before election day, he said, I think what Republicans thought we would do is write an op ed and go on TV and talk about it, not that we would actually act. And what California does electorally is historic and important. What it does psychologically is transformational.
- [09:07]
Alex Wagner
Yeah, I think there's a lot of truth in that. Gavin Newsom, I mean, he essentially got this win out of nowhere. I think there's a lot of trepidation in the reform community about going about these redistricting fights. But I think one reason it was so successful is the way that he framed it. It wasn't a pure escalation. It was a response. It was self defense. It was protecting representation. And if you look at the people who really organized this campaign, they're talking about how we did redistricting raft and reform burrito, so to speak. You know, they put it on the ballot, they gave it for voters to decide. They talked about how this should be a temporary measure. And so I think there's a lot of things that made that a big win in California that I'm a little nervous about. The way some other Democrats are reading that. Yes to leaning into the fight, yes to taking on the Trump administration, these abuses of power. But at the same time, this was a response to what Texas did. I don't view it personally and maybe other people on this panel disagree, as a green light to say, okay, we're all going to go engage in this partisan gerrymandering. At this point, I saw that Kansas decided to abandon their redistricting measures. I view that as a positive measure. Maybe, maybe the effect on this is that Gavin Newsom, what he accomplished in California is sort of like a brushback pitch for other Republican states who were considering these measures. And that would be a really good outcome. Right. If that sort of partisan mess stopped. And then we got into by the path for reforms to make voting truly free and fair for everyone down the road.
- [10:42]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, Alex, I think that is probably the moral debate to have. I think a lot of Democrats view the house as burning and being on fire. And we've already lost the second and third story. And so are we going to let them burn down to the foundation, down to the studs? I think most Democrats right now, especially after Tuesday, say, hell no.
- [11:08]
Amanda Carpenter
Yeah. I was interviewing David Clough for my podcast and he said, conjure the worst case scenario because they're already acting on that. They are going to try and steal the 2026 midterms. They're making it plain as day. This redistricting effort is, is a plainly undemocratic effort on the part of Trump to pressure states to give him a map that he can win without much effort. You know, this is not how politics is supposed to work, but it is rules by, I don't even want to say rules. It's the game we're all now playing. I think people have to get acclimated to the fact that we are truly in terra incognito. He could use the renewed districts to sort of legitimize a win, but he also could call in military troops to blue cities and states. He's installed in election deniers at various levers of the federal holding, various levers of the federal government apparatus. And at the state level, they could cry election fraud. I mean, there are any number of ways in which he is going to try and steal this election. And I think woe be to those. I mean, I respect the moral high ground, but I feel like that's playing baseball against someone who's still following the rules. And I don't know that a brush bat pitch is going to work this inning. As to further the metaphor, what do.
- [12:10]
Nicole Wallace
You think of Gavin Newsom? Politicians in this moment are sort of characteristically low risk. He threw In, I think, 90 days ago, something that had very high level disapproval from Arnold Schwarzenegger, which had, to your point, Alex, not cross this Rubicon into what was viewed by a majority of voters as maybe not the perfect solution, but the necessary one. And he brought it looks like 8 million voters along with him.
- [12:48]
Amanda Carpenter
Well, first of all, I mean, I think we need to. The fact that 8 million people came out for something like redistricting, I mean, I'm old enough to remember Nicole when it was like, don't do segments on redistricting because nobody really knows what that is.
- [13:00]
Nicole Wallace
I never got that memo. I feel like I, I've been doing segments on redistrict for eight years.
- [13:06]
Amanda Carpenter
You're fine, you're fine, you're Fine. I'm not worried about you. I just mean, you know, gerrymandering was not something that you could have an off year election, no candidate on the ballot, and just this. People are clued in. People understand that this president is trying to steal democracy. And by the way, they understand it on both levels because in Missouri, there has been a partisan gerrymander at the hand of the Republican legislature and the Republican ag. And there is a citizen led movement that I think is going to work to get a ballot referendum to overturn that gerrymander in the deep red state of Missouri. People understand, they are wise enough to see that the, the overall anti Democratic inclinations of the Republican Party are made manifest across this country in different ways. And that should hearten everybody who's worried about citizen participation and citizen awareness in terms of democracy. The 8 million Californians coming out to protest effectively reject Trump's gerrymander in Texas. Like, when has that ever happened? People are fired up about this. And to your, you know, initial of like, how hard Democrats should fight. I mean, I think that that's the sign that if they need a sign that people care about this, they're motivated and they reject the attempts to steal democracy. Just look at Tuesday night's results.
- [14:18]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I mean, Amanda, that is the point that voters are now engaged in the fight that is before us. It's not the fight that I think any of us would have chosen. Right. Like who wants to be having these conversations? Who wants to be doing blocks about the end of the rule of law in America or the possibility that Trump is inching toward former President OB but that's what they're saying out loud and from podiums paid for by the US Taxpayer.
- [14:45]
Alex Wagner
Yeah, I mean, I think the big takeaway from this is that there should be a lot of ways to fight against Donald Trump's authoritarianism. Gavin Newsom made an issue, like I said, out of nothing, raised a ton of money, took something that was unpopular and made it popular. But there's all kinds of different issues happening in the states and there's a lot of dissatisfaction. Trump is extremely unpopular, and the thing that the Democrats really do have going from him right now is that they are supported by a grassroots, genuine, authentic protest movement that is extremely powerful. I mean, the sort of magic happens in politics when you have that on the ground, organic action, and then that movement produces leaders who can campaign and win on the right issues. And so both things are happening and there's so much dissatisfaction. One of the things that we talk a lot about in Democracy circles is like, how do you explain the consequences of authoritarianism? How do you make it real? Well, now people are seeing it. They're seeing it with the ICE detentions. They're seeing with the National Guard deployments. They're seeing it with the tariffs hitting the home. They're seeing it in planning Thanksgiving travel and wondering if the airlines are going to be screwed up and they can actually go home to see their loved ones safely. And so now that these effects are coming home, it's sort of on the elected representatives and say, like, okay, this is how we can change it. This is why it's bad, and this is why you have to get behind me to do that. So maybe you do that with the redistricting fight, but I think there's many ways to do that. And I think we're going to see a lot of what I'm sort of thinking of as the new federalism, a lot of innovative solutions coming from the states to protect voters in those states from these executive power abuses.
- [16:23]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, Mark, to Amanda's point, there are more people who identify themselves as participants in the no Kings movement than as part of MAGA, the MAGA party, which is amazing. MAGA's down at 30%, and I think it's 43 or 46% who describe themselves as fans of the no Kings movement, a movement that didn't exist 12 months ago, didn't exist 10 months ago, and has no sort of known or identifiable national leader. But I want to get to your piece of what we should be prepared for. You write this. One, Republicans will falsely claim they lost because of fraud. Two, Trump will try to ban several popular methods of voting. Three, Republicans will further exploit the levers of federal power. Four, Trump will claim the power to count ballots, tabulate results, and certify elections. Five, extreme Republican gerrymandering will accelerate. Six, Republicans will ask courts to delegitimize their actions. Seven, political prosecutions will increase. Eight, the legacy media will fail us. You decide which one you want to dig in on today.
- [17:29]
Mark Elias
Look, I think the overarching theme here is that there is no governor on Donald Trump. The Department of Justice is under his control. So we'll see political prosecutions. The entire federal government bows and scrapes to him. So we are going to see more efforts by them to interfere in free and fair elections. We are going to see the military, which is those. Those deployments expand. We're going to see him try to ban voting methods like early voting. Right. He has said he wants to ban early vot.
- [17:59]
MSNBC Announcer
Voting.
- [17:59]
Mark Elias
He has said he wants to bail ban mail in voting. This is not me saying this. This is me quoting him back to you. So, you know, we need to celebrate where we are, but we need to steel ourselves for what's ahead. I would love to think that that what has happened so far is a brushback pitch. But the truth is Donald Trump only knows one speed, and it is full speed straight ahead. And we need to be prepared for that. And we need to meet that with just as much determination and fight as he's going to bring to it it.
- [18:31]
Nicole Wallace
All right. No one's going anywhere. We have much more with our esteemed panel as Democrats go on the offense to protect our democracy after their big, big wins Tuesday night. Also ahead, Donald Trump seems to be triggered by the blame he's getting from voters for the souring of the economy and the length of the government shutdown. Now his administration is looking to hurt even more people by cutting flights ahead of the busy holiday travel season. We'll get to that later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [19:05]
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- [19:35]
Nicole Wallace
The connection between the guests on the show is the show. All that we do is put together people who are smart, people who are brave, people who are honest, and lots of times people who've never met each other to have a conversation that has never happened before. But on that day deepens everyone's understanding about the moment in which we gather.
- [19:57]
MSNBC Announcer
Deadline White House with Nicole Wallace, weekdays from 4 to 6pm Eastern on MSNBC. Start your day with the MSNBC Daily newsletter Each morning, read sharp insights from the voices you trust. Catch standout moments from your favorite shows.
- [20:15]
Nicole Wallace
The second Trump administration has gone to.
- [20:17]
Amy McGrath
Unprecedented length to radically transform America.
- [20:20]
MSNBC Announcer
Stay up to speed with our latest podcasts and documentaries and get fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. It's everything you love about MSNBC delivered to your inbox. Sign up now@msnbc.com.
- [20:38]
Mark Elias
The problem that we are seeing right now is that our current president and his administration is explicitly saying that we want to change the rules of the game midstream in order to insulate ourselves from the people's judgment. They want to change around the maps, not the way it's always been done every 10 years after a census. They want to do it before any election in which they're worried they might lose.
- [21:20]
Nicole Wallace
Alex, President Obama sort of in the spirit of our last conversation in the last hour about Nancy Pelosi is sort of epitomizes the both and right both really strong new leaders in the Democratic Party who are now governors like Abigail Spamberger and Mikey Sherrill as well as the biggest sort of all star in the Democratic Party, the most the sort of all star political athlete that the party in the country knows, President Obama. All of them making this argument that in the state campaigns obviously included more granular state specific issues, but all under the umbrella of this assault on democracy at a time when, as Amanda says, people are experiencing it, they have restored sort of the credibility of arguments that may have fel detached from people's day to day lives. And now the betrayal on the economy, the fact that nothing went down after Donald Trump stood in front of melting meat and groceries at Bedminster and promised that everything behind him would go down. What do you make of what has also been proven by Tuesday night's results that Democrats can make both arguments about democracy and about kitchen table issues? It's a false choice in the eyes of the voters.
- [22:35]
Amanda Carpenter
Yeah, I mean I think the affordability question seems to be the argument that closed the case with voters in this election. Right. All three of the big wins. And that's not to shortchange what happened in Georgia and Mississippi and California and Pennsylvania. But if you look at Mamdani and Spanberger, affordability was the central argument of their, of their case. And that's what voters responded to. I mean the electricity grid, electricity prices, grocery prices, inflation, the job market not being what it was. And I do think people are tuned in to the federal government shutdown and the fact that their health insurance premiums may go up by hundreds and hundreds of dollars if they haven't already. Right. We're like at the beginning of the open enrollment period, people see what is doing juxtaposed with these horrifying pictures of what he's done to the White House, this sort of new Gilded Age, the Gatsby parties, the crypto bros, the corruption, the fact that he is not subtly trying to turn our democracy into a kleptocracy, his allegiance to the rich and the powerful at the expense of the poor and hungry what he's doing on SNAP benefits, I mean, it's not. It's not a hard contrast to make. And so I think you look at the sort of sum total of all of this, it's not just affordability, it's the sort of inherent cruelty of being so tight fisted with the American people. Right, right. That fits into the suite of behaviors around a fascist, an authoritarian, a dictator, someone who doesn't want to be held accountable because he doesn't particularly care about the American voter. And I think often we shortchange voters ability to hold two big ideas in their heads at once. And this election clearly shows they understand the authoritarianism as it is made manifest on the streets, in their own communities, with ICE raids. They also understand that they can't afford the lifestyle that they maybe had three years ago. And that is not okay. None of it is okay with them. It is reassuring that we can bring a certain complexity back to American politics.
- [24:23]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. And I think, Amanda, something that I heard a lot, anecdotally, and I picked it out of the polls because I was so fascinated and so eager to understand it, is that it wasn't that arguments about democracy didn't resonate with people. It was that if there was any chance, if there was any chance of their kid having a better prospect at getting a job after all that they'd spent on college, if they was any chance that they could save some more, if there was any chance that their personal economic security would be improved by Donald Trump, by rolling the dice on Donald Trump again, it trumped their concerns about democracy. And when you see the indifference to the lavishness with which Donald Trump and all of his friends, I mean, it's like a bad remake of Entourage. Right. He brought in all the tech bros. Just before I came on there, I saw a headline with Elon Musk and the word trillion in it. I don't know anyone who even knows what that number means. And they are making trillions of dollars off the Trump presidency. What do you make of this moment in terms of sort of the gluttony of Trump and his rich family and rich friends and the economic anxiety that he's ushered in for every American?
- [25:39]
Alex Wagner
Yeah, I do think people are seeing that. But another factor that is amazing that we kind of overlook so frequently is the fact that we had a major election during a government shutdown. I mean, can you imagine the prospect of that with any other president before? I mean, they would be terrified. And this administration just steamrolls on like, no big deal. Nothing to see here. And they keep on having their parties. But one point I do really want to make is that it gets to, you know, there has been such an intense intimidation campaign coming, coming from this White House, not Trump, but all his people, too. You see the way they carry themselves. You see the way everyone from the FCC to ICE guys on the street just routinely threaten people with this arrogance and bravado and condescension. And you know what the voters said, we don't care. We're still going to show up and vote. I mean, they were hoping this massive intimidation works not only against their main targets that we talk about a lot, like in the media, academia, etc. But a lot of that was directed at the voters, too. I mean, he essentially said, if you elect this guy in New York, I'm going to cut off funding. And the voters said, you know what? We're going to take our chances because this guy fights. We're going to take our chances on this proposition because we want to fight back. And so I think that's really important. And I just want to reiterate, I share all of Mark's concerns about the elections threat ahead. And my eyes are wide open to what the possibilities could be with these National Guard deployments and sham investigations and previews we've seen before. But we just had a successful election. It worked. People turned out and they turned out in massive numbers so that there could be no question where they stood. And that is just a huge victory that we should all take some time to celebrate.
- [27:23]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I mean, I think, Mark, what's interesting, and we've all been having these conversations for so many years that I always try to sort of guard against same. This is not the same story. Right. I mean, no, Kings didn't exist in any previous year that we've had any of these conversations or that we've all gathered together political indictments over the objections of MAGA friendly career prosecutors in the Eastern District of Virginia. That is a new story. And voters are not numb. Voters are not disengaged. And to Amanda's smart point, they are not afraid.
- [27:57]
Mark Elias
Yeah. And also I think we need to be careful about overreading polls. I mean, you know, there was a poll over the weekend going into this election that it was actually an NBC News poll that showed that democracy was actually the top issue that would affect people in the midterm elections. There was a CNN poll that said it was number two behind prices. And, you know, to run successful campaigns, you don't just run one message like there's no question costs and affordability are prominent messages that Democrats run on, in part because if you're looking at the median voter or the less engaged voter, that's a, a very, very important message. But honestly, you also have to turn out the people who care most passionately about any issue. And for a lot of them that are these, that is this democracy issue. And it is seeing the National Guard on the streets and it is watching ICE disappear people into black vans and it is watching as, as migrants are sent to foreign gulags and, and as the rule of law is being disregarded and as political enemies are being indicted for no evidence. And so I don't think we can really appreciate that, that both of these things are essential. And it is not just that like voters are all think the same thing and that they only care about one thing. Both of these things are true at the same time. And it is important that Democrats and people who care about democracy are worrying about the real life economic costs, but also understanding that everyday Americans also care about whether or not they are raising their children under a rule of law and in society that is fair, right?
- [29:28]
Nicole Wallace
And that they're not dropping them off at preschools where ICE agents are roaming around or feel free or emboldened to barge inside. Mark Elias, Amanda Carpenter, thank you for starting us off. Alex, thank you for sticking around over two hours today. When we come back, Donald Trump doesn't want Americans to believe what they see with their own eyes, that prices are high and going up so that jobs are being cut in big numbers and that the economy is on very shaky ground. And now his administration is about to make things even worse ahead of the holiday travel season. We'll bring you that reporting after a short break. We don't have to tell any of you, any of you this program. There are mortgage payments, car payments, hospital bills, child care, elder care, science fair, the need for dry cleaning, babysitter, and oh yeah, the church bake sales on Sunday. You got to buy stuff for that. On and on and on and on and on. You can recognize a potent political issue when it breaks through all of that, when it registers for people consumed with just getting through the million things they have to do every single day. So when the Trump administration says that it will cut 10% of air traffic at 40 airports starting tomorrow, three weeks ahead of Thanksgiving, people look up from all of the things they're juggling in their day to day lives and say, wtf? Trump and his allies are already losing the blame game in the eyes of the voters over the government shutdown and if Tuesday was the barometer of anything, they're losing any sort of ability to make an argument about the economy as well. One top advisor to Donald Trump told POLITICO this, quote, I think you'll see him be very, very focused on prices and cost of living. However, at present, that strategy appears to be grounded in convincing people just trying to get by that this is, we'll use his words here, a quote, golden age of America, end quote. I want to bring in MSNBC aviation analyst and former acting FAA administrator Billy Nolan. And joining me at the table, retired U.S. marine Corps Lt. Col. Amy McGrath. She's a candidate for the open Senate seat in Kentucky. Let me start with this news that I saw it on my phone and I was walking on the sidewalk, as I often am, and I moved over to the side so I could read the whole thing. Air traffic control is this thing that they make movies about because it's just this thing that that no one wants messed with. It's sort of a third rail in the psyche of anyone that gets on an airplane or loves anyone that gets on an airplane. And it's also always been viewed as sort of this untouchable thing. You know, don't mess with them, don't withhold their pay, don't overwork them, don't understaff them. And all of that seems to be on the political table for Trump. What does it mean for anyone who flies or loves someone who flies?
- [32:35]
Billy Nolan
Well, let me start by saying, Nicole, that, you know, when you look at our aviation system, right, what we must have for it to be considered really safe is an amount of predictability, right. So when the FAA is forced to, to make a move or pause, right. That, that has a ripple effect across the entire aviation ecosystem. It affects everybody passenger, every airport, every airplane. So, so this is, but at the same time, having said that, right. One of the things that you, you have to do if you're, if you're the secretary, if you are the FAA administrator, is look out there and say, am I doing everything I can? Are we, the agency, doing everything it can to keep the flying public safe? So this is a, it's a stark call to say we need to do this. And it certainly has some other, other effects that we could talk about later.
- [33:32]
Nicole Wallace
Let me show you what travelers are saying, Amy. I mean, people are paying very close attention to the news. I think Tuesday's election showed that. Here's some travelers at airports this morning as this news broke. There's a concern for all, everybody traveling.
- [33:47]
MSNBC Announcer
We spend a lot of money and just we need to get things straightened out.
- [33:50]
Nicole Wallace
Any part of the shutdown, has it affected us until today when we tried to travel?
- [33:54]
Alex Wagner
Yeah, I mean, people want to live.
- [33:55]
Nicole Wallace
Long and part of living life is traveling.
- [33:58]
Alex Wagner
And this is a big piece of us being able to go out there.
- [34:01]
Nicole Wallace
To watch her play. We have plans to travel again in.
- [34:03]
Alex Wagner
Two weeks, so hopefully we're not affected then either.
- [34:09]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, anyone that flies knows that when your plane is late, sometimes it is because it's late arriving from wherever it was before. So it is an interconnected system and everybody that spends time at airports waiting for their planes to take off or land knows that.
- [34:25]
Amy McGrath
And it's really going to affect all of us. And it's not just the business aspect or it's not just delays. I mean, anytime you put a stress on the system, which is what's happening right now, and we know the air traffic controllers were already stressed prior to the government shutdown, but you put more stress on the system, it's just another potential factor in, you know, another potentially a mishap. And in aviation that could be very deadly. I mean, in my state, in just the last 48 hours, we have experienced a massive tragedy in aviation. So, I mean, we're all affected by this happening right now.
- [35:09]
Nicole Wallace
And Billy, before you get to a tragedy, you get to holiday travel. I mean, what is the norm as opposed to, you know, because I read somewhere it's not just a cut on top of a baseline, it's a cut at a moment of a surge in travel and demand.
- [35:26]
Billy Nolan
Yeah, we are definitely moving as we move into the holiday season, if you will. And Thanksgiving is the busiest, the weekend before Thanksgiving is the busiest travel weekend for the year on average. What we're seeing is that the TSA is screening on average somewhere between 2.4, 2.6 million passengers a day. So that means we're closing in on a billion, a billion passengers that we are moving in the US Alone every year. And so you, then you take that and put those folks on 45 to 50,000 flights per day, commercial flights. So to see a 10% that the FAA, this is not something that the secretary or the administrator takes lightly. You look at everything you have in control. What's the staffing level? We recognize that there are stress, there are strains in the system itself. And so I believe this was a call the secretary felt that he had to make to ensure that amount of predictability that I spoke to earlier.
- [36:33]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, even the sort of Trump hand picked Secretary Sean Duffy saying it's going to be rough out there, really roughly. So again, in their own words. Billy Nolan, thank you for joining us. Amy sticks around. We're gonna do some fact checking on Donald Trump's turkey talk next.
- [36:54]
DSW Announcer
Come to DSW for the shoes, stay for the fun, because let's be honest, if shoe shopping isn't fun, are you even doing it right? So go ahead, try something new. Try something different, good different. Try something that feels like you, you know, the real you, and then definitely brag about it later because at dsw, you've got unlimited freedom to play. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget at DSW stores or@dsw.com Let us surprise you.
- [37:24]
Nicole Wallace
The connection between the guests on the show is the show. All that we do is put together people who are smart, people who are brave, people who are people who are honest, and lots of times people who've never met each other to have a conversation that has never happened before. But on that day deepens everyone's understanding about the moment in which we gather.
- [37:46]
MSNBC Announcer
Deadline White House with Nicole Wallace, weekdays from 4 to 6pm Eastern on MSNBC. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access. Add free listening and bonus content to all of Ms. MSNBC's original podcasts, including the chart topping series the Best People with Nicole Wallace, why Is this Happening? Main justice and more. Plus new episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows ad free and ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddows original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.
- [38:26]
Nicole Wallace
We're back with Amy, who's herself a candidate. So we wanted to ask you about some of what's showing up in the polls about Trump and the economy. Trump's movement, which is 12 of the last three presidential elections, has always had a lot of things in the coalition. But people who choose him over Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris choose him because they are led to believe that the things he says about the economy will come to pass for them. It is nine months in and he has lost that edge. Let me read you this from the New York times. Quote, Only 30% of voters believe Trump has lived up to their expectations for tackling inflation and the cost of living. That's according to a recent NBC poll, his lowest mark for any issue asked. And a meager 27% of voters in a CNN poll in late October said Trump's policies had improved the country's economic conditions. Less than half of those who thought he had made matters worse just two years ago, in September of 2023, voters gave Republicans a 20 percentage point edge on the economy in the NBC poll. Now, Democrats and Republicans are statistically to.
- [39:33]
Amy McGrath
Yeah, and we're really seeing this here in Kentucky, you know, where I'm from, because a lot of people voted for Donald Trump to make their lives better on the economic front. And there were a lot of promises made. For example, that he promised not to go after Medicare and Medicaid, so broke those promises. And not only did he not make their economy and their lives better, his policies are actually making things worse for people. This one trick pony that he has on the economy, which is the tariffs, of course, really hurt Kentucky, hurts our bourbon industry, hurts our farmers, hurts our manufacturing, and it hurts Kentuckians at the checkout line. So if I go to Kroger, I'm just a normal Kentuckian like everybody else, right? I go and I buy milk and all these things for my family and I go and I see in the checkout line, whoa, you know, that's a big bill.
- [40:27]
Nicole Wallace
Groceries are really high.
- [40:28]
Amy McGrath
Yeah. And I think this is what people are looking at and they're saying, wait a second, second, this isn't what I voted for. I don't really understand tariffs, but I know that prices are going up. And I don't really know why he's doing this. And I think that is something that is really real in Kentucky.
- [40:47]
Nicole Wallace
There's, I mean, in this vein, there's a lie that he's telling. So Trump is telling some audacious lie about the price of Thanksgiving dinner. And again, I don't know, I think this only works on people who don't do the grocery shop shopping. But this. So he posted this 2025 Thanksgiving dinner under Trump, 25% lower than 24, according to Walmart. My costs are lower than Democrats and then a bunch of nonsense. So here's the fact check that. Walmart's 2025 holiday meal contains 15 items, while Walmart's 2024 holiday meal included 29 items. Literally half as many things. Of course it's cheaper. I mean, I guess, let's hope it's cheaper. This year's basket of Thanksgiving food nixes multiple Thanksgiving staples including pecan pie, cranberry sauce, whipped cream, mini marshmallows, corn muffin mix, as well as fresh sweet potatoes, fresh celery and fresh onions. Additionally, many of the name brand items have been replaced by Walmart's great value items. A quick trip to Walmart's website reveals that while the price of Walmart's holiday meal has decreased by removing items. The actual grocery prices have remained pretty much the same. So again, you may fool people who never grocery shop at Walmart, but you won't fool anyone in charge of buying the Thanksgiving meal unless what you plan to serve is something with half as many items, right?
- [42:11]
Amy McGrath
I mean, you can say whatever you want, you can lie all the time, but people feel it. I'll give you another example. Farmers, okay? When the SNAP benefits are cut, a lot of people look and they're like, okay, the President has said we can't move this money over to cover SNAP benefits for, you know, people in Kentucky who need them. But yet we have $40 billion to bail out Argentina. And people see that and they're like, well, that doesn't make any sense. How come we're bailing out Argentina and we're not? How is that America first? And so you talk to farmers who are like, how come he cares more about, you know, China and Argentina than he does about our soybeans crop? I mean, this is, this is stuff that I hear all the time in Kentucky. They feel like, this isn't America first. What is he doing? Very chaotic.
- [43:02]
Nicole Wallace
You are friends with two of the governors elect. What have you heard from Mikey Sherrill and Abigail Spamberger this week?
- [43:11]
Amy McGrath
Well, both of them are amazing patriots, amazing Americans. I served with Mikey and both graduated from the U.S. naval Academy. I think to see them become governor of New Jersey and Virginia, for me, is just awesome because they're patriots, they love this country, and they're true public servants. And so many times you look at politicians, you're like, oh, God, can we really get, can't we just get somebody that is good in there who does it for the right reasons? And both of those win given started in politics for the right reasons. See them rise to this position is just amazing.
- [43:51]
Nicole Wallace
It's amazing.
- [43:51]
Alex Wagner
It's awesome.
- [43:52]
Nicole Wallace
Both of them serve their countries in national security capacities. A little bit like your journey. So thank you for being here this week to talk to us. One more break. We'll be right back. House Democrats investigating Jeffrey Epstein are not taking their foot off the gas. They are now officially requesting to interview Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, otherwise formally known as Prince Andrew. It comes as he is formally stripped of his prince title by his brother, King Charles, in order to move out of his Royal Lodge mansion in Windsor, following growing controversy over his ties to Epstein. In a statement, House Democrats on the Oversight committee said this, quote, rich and powerful men have evaded justice for far too long. Now former Prince Andrew has the opportunity to come clean and provide justice for the survivors. If he is innocent, then he can clear his name. And if not, our investigation will show that and the victims will receive long overdue justice. The Royal Family's actions stripping Andrew of his titles show there's more to the story. Keep you updated on that. One more break. We'll be right back. Before we go today, we want to invite you to listen to this week's episode of the Best People podcast. My guests are two former White House House advisors who now host the immensely popular podcast Pod Save America, Jon Favreau and Tommy Viter. You can watch our conversation right now on YouTube by scanning the QR code on your screen or listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. And as always, let me know what you think on Blue sky or Instagram. Thank you for letting us into your homes today. We are grateful.
- [45:33]
DSW Announcer
Holiday PSA from dsw. This is your reminder that shoes are a gift.
- [45:38]
Amy McGrath
Literally.
- [45:39]
DSW Announcer
So unwrap something good, like boots that inspire your next big adventure, or cozy slippers that give you an excuse to stay in, or sneakers that feel like pure joy. Because shoes aren't just shoes, they're exactly what you wanted. Let us surprise you so you can surprise them. Find shoes that get you and everyone on your lips at prices that get your budget at DSW stores or dsw.com.