“Georgia redistricting rejected”

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House

Episode: “Georgia Redistricting Rejected”

Host: Nicolle Wallace (MS NOW)
Date: June 17, 2026
Main Guest: Senator Raphael Warnock (D-GA)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around Georgia Republicans' surprising decision to halt plans for congressional redistricting ahead of the pivotal 2028 elections. Nicolle Wallace discusses the implications with Senator Raphael Warnock, exploring the intersection of democracy, voting rights, faith, and moral leadership in contemporary American politics. The conversation also reflects on Warnock’s new book, “The Crooked Places Made Straight: Reflections on the Moral Meaning of America,” and broader themes such as hope, civic engagement, poverty, and the contrast between recent and previous American presidencies. Later, the grand opening of the Obama Presidential Center in Chicago is discussed, emphasizing the importance of moral clarity and public service in leadership.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Georgia Redistricting Decision & Its Significance

• Background:

  • Georgia Republicans decided not to pursue a redistricting plan, defying their own governor. The move came after significant pressure from Democrats, voting rights groups, and concerned Republicans who feared the political repercussions.
  • [01:02] Senator Warnock describes his continued advocacy against gerrymandering:

    “I will continue to leave the door open for my colleagues in the Georgia congressional delegation to join me in banning gerrymandering.” – Raphael Warnock

• Nicolle Wallace explains the stakes:

  • Decision could energize Democratic voters and affect the crucial upcoming election ([01:40]).
  • Sets the stage for MAGA vs. mainstream Republican contests in Georgia.

• Historical Context:

  • Warnock and Ossoff’s landmark 2021 election; their unique places in history.
  • Warnock’s blending of personal narrative and national significance, tied to the events of January 5th (runoff wins) and January 6th (Capitol insurrection).

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2. Moral Leadership & Democracy: Warnock’s Perspective

• On the Book’s Message:

  • Warnock describes “The Crooked Places Made Straight” as a “sermon in the public square.”
  • Reminds listeners that building democracy is a generational, unfinished project, likened to constructing a cathedral:
    • [05:36]

      “America is a grand cathedral. It is unfinished. But it is our job. It is our time to keep building brick by brick. Don’t give in to those who are trying to loot and burn the cathedral. Let’s strengthen it so that everybody has a voice.” – Raphael Warnock

• On Hope vs. Despair:

  • Despite dark times, moments like the redistricting decision show democracy can be defended by public action.
  • [07:44]

    “It’s easy to give in… to those who are trying to weaponize despair. This was just one example that when you stand up to Donald Trump and you stand up to his enablers in Congress, you can win.” – Raphael Warnock

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3. The Republican Party, Trump, and Moral Inflection

• On Republican Senates’ Compliance:
  • Warnock criticizes Senate Republicans for enabling Trump and sacrificing dignity for power.
    • [09:53]

      “Why would you work so hard to get the influence that comes with being a United States senator and then just hand it over to Donald Trump… you end up confirming people like RFK to Health and Human Services. And he’s literally… killing people…” – Raphael Warnock

  • He argues change will only come when the public demands it:

    “Republicans will not respond until the American people stand up. That’s what they respond to. A change in the public mood on this issue.”

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4. Public Service & Presidential Ambitions

• Refuting Personal Ambition:

  • Warnock states he's focused on his current roles, not presidential aspirations:
    • [12:33]

      “We’ve made politics in our country about the politicians, literally… The people in Georgia… they’re saying, who cares? … I sent them to Washington… to work for me. … For me, it’s a sacred honor… to represent 11 million people.” – Raphael Warnock

• The American Covenant:

  • Warnock emphasizes a “sacred trust” between elected officials and their constituents.
  • He calls for centering “ordinary people”—not simply political maneuvering.

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5. Fight for Voting Rights & Response to Suppression

• Supreme Court’s Voting Rights Decision:

  • Wallace references Warnock’s statement that court decisions may unintentionally inspire greater voter turnout.
  • Warnock brands current Republican efforts as “robin hood in reverse,” shifting wealth and power from the poor to the rich.
    • [17:51]

      “This is Robin Hood in reverse. This is what Dr. King calls socialism for the rich.” – Raphael Warnock

• GOP Policies & Moral Contradictions:

  • Critiques religious right for supporting anti-poor policies ("socialism for the rich") and using faith as a weapon rather than a bridge.
  • Warnock describes his own upbringing in poverty, highlighting diminishing opportunities for social mobility:
    • [20:13, 21:55]

      “I try to lift them up… here I sit a United States senator. But I’m a kid who grew up in public housing… What keeps me up at night is the realization that it would be harder for that kid to do that now than it was then.”

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6. America’s Spiritual Crisis & Need for Moral Courage

• Division and Demagoguery:

  • Warnock frames national polarization and zero-sum thinking as a spiritual crisis.
  • [23:53]

    “My faith is not a weapon. It’s a bridge… Demagogues of division want to convince us that my interests are somehow counter to yours… while we’re attacking each other, they're moving the wealth from the bottom to the top.”

• Call for a New Covenant:

  • Invokes the American motto "E pluribus unum – out of many, one" and calls for collective action:
    • [24:45]

      “The preacher doesn’t talk and the congregation sits there silently … This is my call to the nation. I hope that we will respond with moral courage.”

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7. Obama Presidential Center & Public Service

• Grand Opening:

  • The episode celebrates the imminent opening of the Obama Presidential Center ([29:18]) as a symbol of optimism and dignity.
  • President Obama discusses the emotional impact of reading letters from Americans as his favorite part of the exhibit:
    • [29:40]

      “People are really raw on their emotions in some of these letters… Whenever I watch that, I get choked up… I think that as much as anything captures what I always hoped the spirit of my presidency was.” – Barack Obama

• Moral Leadership:

  • The Obamas are held as a standard of moral leadership, contrasting sharply with Trump-era politics.
  • [34:21] Michelle Obama, speaking on her husband’s legacy:

    “Thank you for, for doing this for the south side of Chicago. I love you.”

• Reflection on History:

  • Panelists debate the contrast between public service and self-service in the presidency.
  • Norm Eisen and Basil Smichel reflect on the need to rekindle optimism and civic purpose.
    • [39:54] Eisen:

      “We had a run of presidencies… dedicated to public service… we've always managed to resume the path toward achieving our promise as a nation.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On pushing the nation forward:

  “…the continuing struggle for people of goodwill in this country must be to help push this nation closer to the hope of January 5th.” – Nicolle Wallace, quoting Warnock ([03:00])

• On leadership and power:

  “…why would you… get the influence… and then just hand it over to Donald Trump…” – Raphael Warnock ([09:53])

• On present political dangers:

  “We are literally witnessing the most corrupt administration in American history. They are… looting and burning the cathedral, if you will, and selling it for parts.” – Raphael Warnock ([17:07])

• On moral faith:

  “My faith is not a weapon. It’s a bridge.” – Raphael Warnock ([23:53])

• On the promise of America:

  “America is a grand cathedral… It is unfinished. But it is our job… to keep building brick by brick.” – Raphael Warnock ([05:36])

• On the Obama legacy:

  “If there’s one exhibit that people should take the time… it’s those letters… as much as anything, [they] capture what I always hoped the spirit of my presidency was.” – Barack Obama ([31:03])

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Segment Timestamps & Structure

• [01:02]–[04:31]: Opening discussion; Georgia redistricting, Warnock’s book, setting up the historical context.
• [04:27]–[07:27]: Warnock discusses his book and the unfinished work of democracy.
• [07:27]–[09:53]: The GOP, Trump, and the dynamics of power in the Senate.
• [12:03]–[15:07]: Public service, presidential ambitions, the “sacred trust” of representing constituents.
• [17:07]–[20:06]: Voting rights, Republican strategies and their consequences.
• [20:13]–[24:45]: Faith, social justice, and American opportunity.
• [26:06]–[26:27]: Closing reflections from Senator Warnock.
• [29:18]–[31:32]: Obama Center preview, Obama on letters from Americans.
• [32:02]–[35:01]: Reflections on the Obamas, public service, and what the center symbolizes.
• [39:18]–[42:38]: Panel reflections on moral leadership contrasts, concluding thoughts.

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Final Thoughts

This episode weaves together urgent political news with deep reflections on leadership, morality, and civic duty. Senator Warnock stands out not only as a policy-maker but a moral and spiritual leader, challenging the audience to reclaim hope and unity against cynicism and division. The Obama Presidential Center’s grand opening and the contrast it offers to current leadership serve as a thematic anchor, reminding listeners of the possibility and necessity of public service and moral courage in American life.

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For listeners wanting a guidepost through complex times, this episode offers not just analysis, but a call to action.

Transcript

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[Senator Raphael Warnock]

I'm standing here in Georgia. I'm a voice for Georgia. The people of this state asked me to fight for them, and so I'm going to continue to do that. So this is in the Legislature's hand. It's in the governor's hand. I hope he will hear from his own people. In the meantime, I will continue to leave the door open for my colleagues in the Georgia congressional delegation to join me in banning gerrymandering.

[Nicole]

Hi again Everybody. It's now 5 o' clock in east the power of the soul Today, Republicans in Georgia went against their state's Republican governor and opted to scrap plans to redraw that state's congressional map ahead of the 2028 election. As to why they did that, the Atlanta Journal Constitution reports this quote, the decision comes after weeks of mounting pressure from Democrats, voting rights groups and even some uneasy Republicans who warn that reopening redistricting could energize Democratic voters and overshadow a pivotal stretch of the campaign season. Speaking ahead of that special session, as you just heard, was Senator Raphael Warnock, a fierce defender of democracy and voting rights in his state and in the country. Following today's move by Georgia Republicans, Senator Warnock said this quote, john Lewis never backed down from getting into good trouble, and I won't either. Senator Warnock was first elected to the US Senate alongside fellow Georgia Democrat Jon Ossoff at the end of Donald Trump's first term as president. And now Ossoff is up for reelection in November. Last night he and we learned who Ossoff will face in the general election. Georgia Congressman Mike Collins, who Trump endorsed three days ago, setting up a true test of MAGA's power in the Peach State. Senator Warnock and Senator Ossoff, two historic senators in their own right, one being the first black Democrat from the south to serve in the US Senate and and the other, the first Jewish senator from Georgia, stand out at this moment in our country's story for many reasons, one of them being that they were elected on January 5, 2021, just one day ahead of the deadly Capitol insurrection on January 6. Senator Warnock writes about this dichotomy in his new book, the Crooked Places Made Reflections on the Moral Meaning of America. He writes this here's the thing. Like all families, our America is complicated. Our beloved country is both the hope of January 5th and the horror of January 6th. But the miracle of democracy and the oppression that runs counter to democracy are right there in our charter documents. Our Declaration of Independence, our Constitution and our Bill of Rights are all evidence of the enormous possibilities we represent as well as our brutal human flaws and failures. Both days are at the very core of who we are and who we might yet become. The continuing struggle for people of goodwill in this country must be to help push this nation closer to the hope of January 5th. The hope of January 5th is where we begin the Hour with Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia. Thank you so much for being here.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Great to be here with you, Nicole.

[Nicole]

There's so much news to get your thoughts on, but I want to start with the book, if I may. Let me read this to you. You write this on becoming the first black senator from Georgia. Even before I began preaching one Sunday morning in June 2023, I thought about the miracle of that moment. I was about to deliver a sermon recognizing Juneteenth as a federal holiday. From the pulpit of Washington National Cathedral, US Presidents had addressed the nation. From where I stood, others have been mourned by dignitaries from across the globe in this sacred space. A decade earlier, I had stood there delivering the closing prayer for the ecumenical service at President Barack Obama's second inauguration. And there I was again, a black boy raised in public housing who in the years since Obama's inauguration as the first black president, had become the first black United States senator from Georgia. I love that you let us sort of grapple with our story by sharing your story, and I wonder if that's part of the hope of the conversations that emanate from the book.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Well, thank you again. Listen, this book, the Crooked Places Made Straight, is a sermon in the public square. I guess that's what you get when you elect a pastor to the United States Senate. And, and quite literally, it began as a sermon that I preached at the Ebenezer Baptist Church. And then I found myself preaching iterations of it, not only in churches, but in synagogues and temples, in high steeple churches and small storefronts, in rural communities, urban communities. And as I reflected on the coming 250th anniversary of our country, I decided that I wanted to offer this sermon to the nation. You know, sermons lift us up in dark times, and these are dark and difficult days. These kinds of preachments, if you will, hopefully help to put things in perspective. They help us to take the long view. And as I point out in the passage that you read there, I was standing in the National Cathedral, and America is like a grand cathedral. Cathedrals take a long time to build. They don't pop up overnight. They take decades. And over the course of that, there are fluctuations in the economy. War might break out. And here's the thing. The folks who sign up to build a cathedral, they start and they know that they will not be the ones to finish. And yet they dig in because they have a vision of what might be possible for the next generation. America is a grand cathedral. It is unfinished. But it is our job. It is our time to keep building brick by brick. Don't give in to those who are trying to loot and burn the cathedral. Let's strengthen it so that everybody has a voice.

[Nicole]

I think what makes people so drawn to your message right now is that people feel like the general contractor of the cathedral is an arsonist. How do you keep hope and keep reality both in focus?

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Well, I think you need not look any further than what happened in Georgia today. I mean, Donald Trump is just, you know, obsessed with power for the sake of, not for serving people, but for the sake of enriching himself, his own self aggrandizement. He began this terrible race to the bottom that we're witnessing with gerrymandering in our country right now. The Supreme Court poured fuel on the fire and the Georgia legislature, of all the things that they could have been meeting to do today, they were meeting at the governor's. He called them into session, and the meeting was about redistricting, redrawing the lines. Well, we stood up and the people raised their voices. They've been raising their voices for weeks about this issue. And I Think the Republicans lost their nerve, at least for now. They hear the thumping of people of feet, they hear the thud and thumping of feet moving towards November, and they rightly discern that the people intend to hold them accountable. And so for now, they've tabled the issue. I think it's important because I think it's easy to give in, in a moment like this to say, well, we can't win, to give in to those who are trying to weaponize despair. This. This was just one example that when you stand up to Donald Trump and you stand up to his enablers in Congress, you can win. And we had a small victory today, an important victory today.

[Nicole]

Well, I mean, it is true, and the pattern bears it out, that when people stand up to him, he just moves on because there are plenty of people all too willing to roll over. I think it makes the Republicans in the Senate all the more pathetic. As an observer of them, do you see anything up close as. As one of their colleagues that suggests that they're at an inflection point with Trump's unpopularity, with his being on the warpath against senators like Cassidy and Cornyn? Do you see anything changing behind the scenes that we don't see yet?

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Listen, my hope is with the people. I have watched Republicans now for more than a decade. I mean, Nicole, how many opportunities have they had to get off of this bus?

[Nicole]

Endless. Endless.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

You know, when do you say enough is enough? When do you say, you know, my dignity, my sense of what's right and wrong, that I cannot. I cannot countenance this, this kind of just ugliness, brazen bigotry unleashed in our public, the gross incompetence, having to. I mean, why would. Why would you spend the time that we have to spend? Let me tell you, it's not easy getting this job. You do a lot. Why would you work so hard to get the influence that comes with being a United States senator and then just hand it over to Donald Trump, no matter who he appoints? You find a way to contort yourself into a pretzel to say that this is okay. And so you end up confirming people like RFK to Health and Human Services. And he's literally. His policies are literally killing people. And all of a sudden we're dealing with measles, hecseth over Defense, or the Department of War, as he likes to call it. And now this. This. This effort where Donald Trump is determined to put Bill Poltay over our national defense. Clearly, there's no part of his job that he takes seriously we know who Donald Trump is. This is about the character of the country. Who are we? And Republicans will not respond until the American people stand up. That's what they respond to. A change in the public mood on this issue. Donald Trump has chased all of the Republicans, you know, the folks that we used to enjoy fighting with, you know, the people you worked for, Nicole, he's chased all those people out of the party. And you don't really have a party, you have a cult. And it's really about the people. But I have confidence that the American people, as they stand up, can rescue their own democracy. And I'm certainly going to be doing everything I can as a United States senator to be their voice.

[Nicole]

Well, filling this vacuum with hope and with character and with moral leadership is something that people are so hungry for. A lot of people are hoping that you will throw your. It feels beneath you to say hat that. Throw your. Consider a presidential run. Is that anything you think about, or are you going to sort of take the temperature while you're. While you're talking about the book and bringing this message to the country?

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Listen, I have two big jobs. I'm the pastor of Ebenezer Church, father of two small children, and a US Senator. So I'm focused on that. And while anybody would be gratified that your name gets tossed around in that kind of discussion, let me be really clear. Part of what I point out in the book, and I do mean this, it may, this is not a dodge. I mean it, that part of what ails our politics is that we are always obsessed with the next election. Not even the one we're in, but the one after that. And I understand, you know, the pundits do what the pundits do, but in a real sense, we've made politics in our country about the politicians, literally about the politicians. Who's up, who's down, who's in, who's out. And I think the people in Georgia right now who are watching the prices on their groceries spikes, the price of gas spike, healthcare, unaffordable, housing, unaffordable, they're saying, who cares? I didn't send them to Washington. I didn't send them to the state capitol to work for themselves. I sent them up there to work for me. And I can tell you, and I really do mean this, for me, it's a sacred honor that I get to represent 11 million people in the great state of Georgia. They didn't all vote for me, but I get to fight for them every single day. It is for me. A sacred trust similar to my other job as a pastor. It's about walking with the people, working for them and for the people of your state to say that since we can't all go to D.C. but we're concerned about our children, we want to make sure that they have a path towards prosperity. We're concerned about our parents, our aging parents, as they deal with both the blessings and the burdens of getting older. We're going to send you to D.C. and we're going to trust that in rooms of power where tradesmen, you know, folks are trading and doing the things that politicians do with all of the special interests that you're going to be thinking about us, that at the end of the day you're going to center ordinary people. And we may not even agree on every vote that you take, but we're going to trust that you're going to try to do the right thing for ordinary people. That's my calling. And there are various ways to do that. And it's the thing that drives me every single day.

[Nicole]

Well, that sacred and basic covenant between a voter and the people who represent them is under attack as well. You've spoken out about the Supreme Court's role in that. I want to ask you about that. On the other side of a break. We're going to ask you to stick around. We'll delve more deeply into the book as well. And we'll get back to those headlines I mentioned. The book is called the Crooked Places Made Straight. We'll talk about it more. The senator sticks with us. Also ahead, former President Barack Obama and former first leader Michelle Obama are celebrating the opening this week of the Obama Presidential center in Chicago. Seeing them in the spotlight reminds millions of Americans about the gaping divide between their accomplishments and their dignity. And the current occupant of the White House, what the former president says about how he stayed connected to the American people. That's later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere today. We're back with Georgia Senator Raphael Warnock. Senator, you said this about the Supreme Court's decision to essentially gut the Voting Rights act to the New York Times, quote, I think that Republicans have unleashed something potentially that they did not anticipate, the deep offense that people will feel, not just black voters, but people of moral courage, people who have a sense that everybody's voice needs to be heard. I think we may witness turnout that could completely change the math of gerrymandering. I think that's what's showing up and we have a lot of models to ask about the economy, and that's, of course, top of mind for every American. But it's hard to measure what makes you decide to vote. If you maybe skip the last election or don't always vote or weren't sure you're still registered, but you make sure you register. What are youwhat are you seeing turned on in people's sort of desire to participate in the process that is this perhaps unintended consequence of the Republicans voter suppression efforts?

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Well, I think the Republicans are doing a good job at unleashing a kind of righteous anger that is going to stand up and say no to what they're trying to do. I mean, look at the moment we're living in. We are literally witnessing the most corrupt administration in American history. They are stealing the people's money. They are looting and burning the cathedral, if you will, and selling it for parts. And so folks are witnessing this large redistribution of wealth. I love it when folks on the right talk about a redistribution of wealth. They're not against it. The issue is which direction

[Jay Uso]

they are

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

moving the money from the bottom to the top. This is Robin Hood in reverse. This is what Dr. King calls socialism for the rich. And so folks who are watching people take their money and give it to billionaires do not take kindly now to watching them take their vote and their voice. And you're seeing that in turnout in Georgia, all across the state and so in the country. And so Republicans ought to be running scared. But what would be better, actually, is if they would actually do something for the people. Georgia, you know, they called a special session today. They should have been calling a special session to expand Medicaid in Georgia. 500,000 people in the health care coverage gap. I go to rural red districts all across Georgia where there are folks who didn't vote for me, but you know, they welcome to preach, and I'm glad to see them. And I stand there, you know, at their hospital, you know, near Claxton, Georgia, and some of these rural places where their hospitals are barely hanging on because Georgia refuses to expand Medicaid. And then the Republicans turned around in the one big ugly bill and cut a trillion dollars out of Medicaid. So these rural hospitals are suffering. I might point out, as I think about the work that I'm trying to do in this book, you know, that right before they passed that ugly bill that cut a trillion dollars out of Medicaid, cut snap, cut veterans and seniors and children literally taking food out of the people, out of the mouths of people while giving billionaires a tax cut. Right before doing that, the speaker of the House joined with other legislators. They said a prayer, and then they went and voted for that bill. I just want to know what was in that prayer. What were they praying about? What were they asking God to do? The scriptures that I read center those who are on the margins, who are on the margins of the community. And for me, the depth of your faith, the authenticity of your faith is the depth of your commitment to those that Jesus was always hanging out with, the lepers, the folks who are on the margins, women, people who were despised and rejected.

[Nicole]

What perversion has happened on the right that people of faith support the things that they're doing?

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Well, you know, this is not a new thing. It's deeply concerning. And, yeah, I mean, because we watched this a decade ago, and initially, what we heard from folks on the right was, yeah, we know Donald Trump is not a holy vessel, but he's doing the work that we think needs to be done, and so we'll tolerate it. But have you noticed that over time, that explanation has evolved? And there are those who speak of him as if he were the second coming. Whatever Donald Trump is, he's not a man of faith. Come on, give me a break. We know better than that. But we have seen this kind of thing before. I'm a Christian, but I. And which means I know my story. I know that Christians, many Christians, were on the wrong side of slavery. There were Christian abolitionists, and there were Christians who were justifying slavery. Martin Luther King Jr. As he was pushing back the shadows of segregation and trying to liberate this country from its worst self and free it into being its best self. He says over and over again in the letter from a Birmingham Jail and other places that I'm so disappointed in the church, he said, as I drive through the south and see its massive churches with its spires pointing heavenward, I ask myself what kind of people worship there and who is their God? That's the question that I would ask of my Christian sisters and brothers. There's data that shows that evangelical Christians are more likely than any other group to blame poor people for being poor. And so it's unsettling to me when you see an expression of faith in which people are angrier at poor people than they are with poverty. Meanwhile, we're witnessing in real time the kinds of policies that crush the poor. And I try to lift them up, not only in this book, but in my work. You know, here I sit a United States senator But I'm a kid who grew up in public housing, and my family needed snap. I'm a Head Start, baby. A program called Upward Bound, sponsored by federal government, put me on a college campus as a high school student every weekend and during the summer. So I knew I could go to college because I was already there then. Pell grants, low interest, student loans. In other words, I had a narrow path from the projects to a great education. And now I sit in the United States Senate. What keeps me up at night is the realization that it would be harder for that kid from Cape street to do that now than it was then. Our country's moving in the wrong direction. The American people feel it in their gut, people on the left and the right, which is why, you know, they hired somebody to tear it up because they were frustrated with things as they are and for good reason. The problem is, Donald Trump said that he would look out for families. And I guess since charity begins at home, he started with his family. He just forgot about the rest of us.

[Nicole]

Do you think people are too hardened and too distracted to thaw their hearts and see so clearly how. I mean, I went to college because of Pell Grants, too. I mean, do you think people are still capable of seeing themselves in the American story? Or do you think our politics has people so walled off from one another and from their own humanity?

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Well, that's what I'm calling on us to do. We have demagogues in our country right now with big microphones, and they're doing everything to divide us. They're even using the religion to divide us. My faith is not a weapon. It's a bridge. And as I talk about this spiritual crisis that confronts our country, and we really are in a spiritual crisis, I believe that the predictable, trite language of partisan politics is too puny a vocabulary for what really confronts us. And there's a kind of soul weariness and the demagogues of division. They want to convince us that my interests are somehow counter to yours. And if you get what you need, I'm not going to get what I need. That is a kind of zero sum game, and that's the game they're playing with us. And while we're looking at each other and attacking each other, they're moving the wealth from the bottom to the top, which is why I spend a lot of time in rural, often red districts trying to talk to my neighbors. I still believe in the American covenant, E pluribus unum out of many one. And I offer this sermon to all of us. To say that we ought to fight for each other's neighbors. That when my children are. The only way my children can be safe is for other people's children to be safe. Now, I know this sounds like a sermon, and, you know, that's what happens again when you elect the pastor to the Senate. But in my church, we have something called call and response. The preacher doesn't talk, and the congregation sits there silently and listens. They talk back to me while I'm talking. It's called call and response. This is my call to the nation. I hope that we will respond with moral courage. People of faith, people of various faith traditions, people who claim no faith at all, but have moral courage, who believe in the covenant that we have with one another as the American people, that we will stand up in this moment and save our country and move it forward. Indeed, the people are the only ones who can.

[Nicole]

Senator, I could have listened to your wisdom and your answers to these questions for the whole two hours. I hope you will come back and continue this conversation. I'm so happy to have you here to talk about your book. I think it's really important and the timing couldn't be better. Thank you so much for your time today.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

So great to be with you. Keep the faith.

[Nicole]

We'll try. We'll try. The book is called Crooked Places Made Reflections on the Moral meaning of America. When we come back. It is the eve of the grand opening of the President Barack Obama Presidential center in Chicago. And with the Obamas back in the spotlight this week, we're getting a very clear reminder of the dignity and moral clarity of we should have a right to expect from our leaders that we don't have in Washington. We'll show you what the former president told our colleague Michelle Norris about how he stayed connected to the American people while he was serving as president. We'll have that for you after a short break. Don't go anywhere.

[Kiana]

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[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Start your free [e-mail].

[Jay Uso]

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[Senator Raphael Warnock]

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[Norm Eisen]

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[Senator Raphael Warnock]

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[Norm Eisen]

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[Nicole]

tomorrow in Chicago, a project that has been nearly a decade in the making will come to fruition with the grand opening of the President Barack of President Barack Obama's Presidential Center. You'll be able to watch that event tomorrow live right here on Ms. Now. And unlike the current occupant of the White House, President Obama has found no trouble securing top level entertainment and artists for tomorrow's ceremony. They will include performances from a star studded lineup featuring Stevie Wonder and Bruce Springsteen, Christina Aguilera, John Legend, Jennifer Hudson, Common, the Roots, Eddie Vedder, and U2's Bono and the Edge. My good friend and colleague Michelle Norris got an exclusive preview of the Presidential center and had a wide ranging conversation with President Obama. In this clip, President Obama describes his favorite exhibit at the Center. It showcases some of the 40,000 letters he would receive from the American people every day.

[Barack Obama]

And so there's a display that has a sampling of those letters, but the exhibition team made this wonderful short video, this vignette of a few of those letters. And whenever I watch those, because it's mother talking about, you know, Mr. President, I'm struggling and it's a a vet who's still trying to find his path after he's no longer serving. And people are really raw on their emotions in some of these letters, partly because they don't expect the President's actually going to read it. It's almost like a meditation for them, a way of getting stuff off their chest. And so whenever I watch that, I get kind Of.

[Nicole]

Yeah, I can see that.

[Barack Obama]

Yeah, I get choked up.

[Basil Smichel]

You're getting a little.

[Barack Obama]

Yeah, choked up. Now, if there's one exhibit that people should take the time right after the Oval Office, which everybody will go to, just so they can take a picture of the apples and everything else that might be in there.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Sit in your chair.

[Barack Obama]

Sit in a chair. Just come around on the side and there'll be those letters and there will be a video that's looping. And take the time to watch that because I think that as much as anything captures what I always hoped the spirit of my presidency was.

[Nicole]

Well, what a difference. Joining us from Chicago, Norm Eisen. He worked for President Obama as special counsel for ethics and government reform. He's now the executive chair and co founder of Democracy Defenders Fund. Also joining us, Democratic strategist and Columbia University professor, political analyst Basil Smichel, who is a trustee at the FDR Presidential Library. Norm, what's it like to see this unveiled for the whole country to see?

[Norm Eisen]

It was amazing to have the run of the building today. President Obama was there with Michelle and his daughters. He was showing it to his daughters for the first time. The artists were there, the curators, and it was incredible. My favorite exhibit was there's an original print of the Declaration of Independence. And I love the way the Presidential center tells the story of American history and the act of becoming America and then locates the Obama presidency in the. In that trajectory. It gave me a great deal of hope for the future of our country despite these challenging times. We always discuss Nicole.

[Nicole]

Yeah, Basil, it's certainly a perfect moment to have the Obamas back in the news. Let me show everyone. Because Michelle Obama has been in the news this week because of the heinous comments at the UFC fight. Let me just remind people why she's so beloved and why the right is so obsessed with her. Here she is last night talking about her mom and her husband.

[Kiana]

I am so proud of my husband. He's really messed up. I'm giving him some time because this beautiful skirt that my stylist Meredith Coop picked out, that is a portrait, my favorite portrait of my mom. He didn't know it existed until just a few minutes ago. Marian would have been so proud. She was so proud of her son in law and the man that he is and has been to our family. Always dreaming, probably way too big, but always pulling it off. Thank you for, for doing this for the south side of Chicago. I love you.

[Nicole]

I mean, Basil, they're everything that the country is hungering for. I Mean, Senator Warnock's book is about being vulnerable enough to want our moral center to lead us out of this moment. Really, the Obamas really on the receiving end of some of the most vulnerable, vile attacks from the most powerful people in our politics right now. The Trumps and all their enablers are their corporate enablers who've been silent in the smears of Michelle Obama this week. And there they are this, this week, still putting themselves out there in service of the country. It's a remarkable thing to see.

[Basil Smichel]

Well, I think you hit it on the head. It's in service to the country. It's not about self. And that's why actually it's really important to note that this is a presidential center, not just a presidential library muse, necessarily a testament to them. It's really an open door to let the country in, to remind them of a moment in our history when we were all incredibly optimistic about the future. Right. You know, it's kind of hard to remember that moment in time given what the last 10 plus years have been like. But there was a time when we were all talking about hope and change. And even if you were skeptical about the ability of America to be post racial, it's at least something that we were talking about. And so that's why the center is so important, because it honors that optimism. It just doesn't honor the president and the former president or first lady. It also honors the community that he came from. And that's something that, you know, listening to your interview with Senator Warnock really resonated with me because the senator talked about this narrow path that he felt that he was on. And I think in some ways, for so many people, including me as a black man in this country, that you feel that you have to consistently walk this narrow path, that there is a fine line between success and prison. Not just failure, but prison or death. So you have to be so very careful in every step you make, in every turn that you take. And in many ways, that was the Obama presidency, right. Balanced on the head of a needle or head of a pin. But he walked that line. He did everything he needed to do and still was excoriated by, you know, so many people that were just out to bring him down and to sully the name and the country that he. That he represented. And I think this center is able to create this kind of opportunity for a pilgrimage for people to come and remember what is possible in this nation,

[Nicole]

to remember what's possible. And I think if you look at everything that President Obama has said, in the context of the last three presidential elections to understand what's on the line. What's on the line in this fight for our democracy? No one's going anywhere. We'll continue this conversation on the other side, but I want to remind everybody that we're going to have live coverage of the grand opening of the Obama Presidential center in Chicago. Join us for that if you tomorrow at 11am Eastern. Then on Friday at 9pm Eastern, our colleague Michelle Norris will host a special behind the scenes look at the center. It'll feature the interview I just played for you, the full interview with former President Obama and former First Lady Michelle Obama. We will be right back.

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[Jay Uso]

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[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Only available in permitted states.

[Norm Eisen]

No purchase necessary.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

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[Norm Eisen]

BGW Group would be prohibited by law

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

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[Kiana]

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[Nicole]

we're back with Norm and Basel Norm, when you watch the Obamas and you watch Obama get choked up talking about the letter sent to him by the American people. And people don't always write the president, you know, with comments that are happy. Lots of times they're upset or grieving or frustrated. And that that's the most meaningful exhibit to him. Like the contrast isn't even in the same arena as a president who foists an octagon on the South Lawn and takes paid sponsorships for a pay per view cage match to celebrate himself. How did we get here?

[Norm Eisen]

Well, I think that the contrast that you described between a presidency dedicated to the public service and, you know, putting political differences to the side. We had a run of presidencies like that. We were very lucky in a sense, in the post World War II era, Nicole. And through a series of, of really tragedies, including a failure to reckon with the effects of globalization on the American people and a con man par excellence who exploited some of those American tragedies, we've ended up with a presidency that for the first time, whatever party you may be affiliated with, the first time that we've had a presidency that is principally dedicated to the personal interests Donald Trump, his cronies and his enablers. So that is a tragic accident of history. But when I walk through that Obama presidential center today, I spent hours there, I really did was reminded that we've had a kind of roller coaster ups and downs in American history and we've always managed to resume the path towards achieving our promise as a nation. And I think, you know, when I look at the courts in our over 300 cases and matters at Democracy Defenders Fund in action, they're pushing back, they're helping us get back to that place.

[Nicole]

Basil, your last thoughts on this day?

[Basil Smichel]

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. We've got to, you know, you know, I always talk about this, you got to go local. I heard a podcaster say the other day that this president is so focused on Caesar Rome and not Pope Rome because he thinks that the sort of pugilistic path in policy and politics is the thing that's going to make America great. But again, going back to Senator Warnock, you know, one of the things that he's done extraordinarily well and you could see others like Ossoff or Talarico and others take the, take the, take the mantle from this is how do you deploy faith in a polarized America, right? How do you talk about stewardship and justice and reexamining that social contract, incredibly important. And that's what the center is going to remind us of.

[Nicole]

Norm and Basil, thank you so much for joining me today. A quick break for us. We'll be right back. My guest on this week's Episode of the Best People podcast is journalist Don Lemon. We talked about everything, including the state of the media to the state of Donald Trump. Take a listen.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

He doesn't really know what's going on. He doesn't read his briefings.

[Norm Eisen]

You know that.

[Nicole]

But he has this picture of the reflecting pool next to a bunch of buildings, and he's like, my pool is bigger than New York City's building.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

It looks like a swimming.

[Nicole]

Isn't even a picture of like. Like a longer body of water than three buildings.

[Jay Uso]

But.

[Nicole]

But to me, it's like, again, like, who made that for him? Like, he wanted a picture of the pond compared.

[Basil Smichel]

One of those people.

[Shannon Maldonado]

Buildings.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Yeah, one of those people. What is it a picture to be in there?

[Nicole]

What is it a picture of?

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

It's a picture of a hole in the ground. It's the cement pond.

[Nicole]

It's a picture of a body of water that is longer than not other bodies of water, but three buildings. Not in D.C. they think it's good

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

and they like, he'll have a prop. Give him a prop. He's like a kid. It's like when you. You have a kid, right? When you hand your kids the iPad. That's what they're doing.

[Nicole]

We should update that because now that body of water has turned green. We'll bring you that story tomorrow. We had a lot of fun in the conversation. If you want to hear the whole thing, just scan the QR code on your screen to listen now or download the best people. Wherever you get your podcast, listen to it and let me know what you think on Instagram or Blue Sky. One more break. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes tonight. We are grateful.

[Jay Uso]

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[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Only available in permitted states.

[Norm Eisen]

No purchase necessary.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

See terms and conditions for details.

[Norm Eisen]

BGW Group would be prohibited by law

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

21+ sponsored by Chumba Casino.