"Glimmers of hope and reasons for alarm"

Summary

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Deadline: White House – "Glimmers of Hope and Reasons for Alarm"

Host: Nicolle Wallace (MSNBC)
Date: February 11, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Nicolle Wallace and her panel of legal experts, journalists, and lawmakers examine the latest alarming efforts by the Trump administration to criminalize dissent, centering on a failed attempt by the Justice Department to indict six Democratic lawmakers—including military veterans—for reminding soldiers to refuse illegal orders. The episode highlights both the escalation of authoritarian tactics and the enduring resilience in American institutions and civil society, framing current events as a test of the durability of democracy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Failed Indictment of Six Democratic Lawmakers

• Background & Context

  • The DOJ, led by Trump ally Jeanine Pirro, sought indictments for seditious conspiracy (a crime carrying up to 20 years in prison) against six Democratic lawmakers.
  • The lawmakers' “crime” was releasing a video reminding military members of their oath to the Constitution and their duty to refuse illegal orders—an “utterly uncontroversial” message in normal times ([00:50]).

• Grand Jury Rejection

  • The grand jury forcefully refused the indictment, demonstrating citizens’ unwillingness to criminalize dissent and drawing a line against abuse of prosecutorial powers.
  • Quote:
    • “It was remarkable that the U.S. attorney’s office in Washington, led by Jeanine Pirro…authorized prosecutors to go into a grand jury and ask for an indictment…But it was even more remarkable that a group of ordinary citizens…forcefully rejected Trump’s bid to label their expression of dissent as a criminal act.” ([00:50], New York Times, via Nicolle Wallace)

• Lawmakers Respond

  • Senator Alyssa Slotkin:
    • “So if we have to sit here and take physical intimidation and legal intimidation to uphold the country we love, we will happily do that.” ([03:22])
  • Congressman Jason Crow:
    • “We're just the first through the breach. But you'll be damn sure that we are not going to back down.” ([02:50])

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Erosion of DOJ Credibility and Separation from the White House

• Breakdown of Norms at DOJ
  • Historically, prosecutors achieve indictments 99.6% of the time when presenting to grand juries. Multiple recent rejections point to a collapse in trust.
  • Andrew Weissman:
    • “It demonstrates the loss of trust and credibility that this Justice Department has…The presumption of regularity…is something that this administration has eroded by targeting its perceived political opponents.” ([06:43])
  • Political prosecutions now extending beyond high-profile targets and eroding DOJ trust even in non-political criminal cases. ([09:38])

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Danger of Weaponized Prosecution

• Political Appointees Overriding Career Prosecutors
  • Notably, career DOJ attorneys refused involvement in these cases. Only handpicked loyalists pursued Trump’s schemes.
  • JP Cooney:
    • “There's a reason that the reporting is that the career people…didn't have anything to do with this and wouldn't have anything to do with it…they just do not have the facts.” ([10:48])
  • The panel underscores that the actions of Trump’s DOJ cross every line of prosecutorial ethics and constitutionality.
  • Andrew Weissman:
    • “The notion that a prosecutor would go to a grand jury and present not just weak evidence, but false evidence, based on the direction of a president…is astonishing.” ([17:48])
    • On legality:
      “That is illegal. And that's a Justice Department that I do not recognize.” ([18:22])

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What’s at Stake: Authoritarian Playbook and the Fragility of Democracy

• A Pattern of Intimidation

  • The current administration’s tactics—legal action, public threats, and intimidation—are not just abnormal but deliberately authoritarian.
  • Alyssa Slotkin:
    • “The intimidation is the point. Physical intimidation and legal intimidation, so that other people watch this episode and say, not for me. I'm just not going to get involved.” ([38:21])

• Chilling Effect on Participation

  • Lawmakers recognize their privilege to defend themselves in public, but average citizens become easy targets for intimidation and silencing.
  • “If the president comes for a small business owner or a community leader or a mom who goes viral on TikTok…that's enough to keep a lot of people quiet.” ([38:21], Slotkin)

• America’s Enduring Resilience

  • “Fear is contagious. But so is courage. And I just keep seeing more examples in 2026 of people just taking an ounce more risk, holding hands together. Minneapolis is a perfect example... we're going to kind of jump together, holding hands, into the breach because it's the country we love.” ([45:53], Slotkin)

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Accountability, Elections, and the Future

• Can Trump Be Held Accountable?

  • On accountability:
    • “If he commits the same crimes, could he be held accountable? He can. Unless he pardons himself.” ([34:15], Weissman)

• Panelists Reflect on Their Roles

  • JP Cooney announces his Congressional run as a direct response to the abuse of power and failure of Congress to act as a check ([25:19]).
  • Endorsement from Jack Smith underscores the importance of independent public servants entering politics:
    • “He's a man of integrity who has committed his career to upholding the rule of law.” ([24:15], Jack Smith via Wallace)

• Lessons from the Grand Jury

  • The grand jury, as a randomly selected group of citizens, emerges as a key democratic safeguard—rejecting abuses of power where elected or appointed officials might not.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Outrage of the Attempted Indictment:

  • Jason Crow: “The story is not that a grand jury rejected it. Of course a grand jury rejected it, because it's a damn joke. The real story here is that they even tried in the first place, that they have a bunch of stooges and clowns at DOJ who are just willing to do Donald Trump's bidding. That is scary, and it's also an injustice to every American.” ([23:05])

• On Prosecutorial Independence:

  • JP Cooney: “During my career, I prosecuted Democrats and I prosecuted Republicans…The way it has always worked at the Justice Department is we just follow the facts and the law.” ([32:08])

• On Defending the Rule of Law:

  • Alyssa Slotkin: “I know we will come through this moment that we're having in our history…we come through it with two things, engaged citizens and principled leaders.” ([42:43])

• Reflecting on Authoritarianism:

  • Slotkin: “This is their playbook. It's an authoritarian playbook…where you use and weaponize the federal government against people you disagree with to get them to shut up.” ([44:39])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trump DOJ’s failed indictment attempt & reactions: [00:50] – [06:43]
• Expert legal analysis on grand jury & DOJ integrity: [06:43] – [12:43]
• Discussion of video and why it provoked such a reaction: [12:43] – [16:17]
• Insights on intimidation, democracy, and institutional collapse: [17:34] – [19:50]
• Interviews with Slotkin, Crow, Cooney, and personal motivations: [22:16] – [47:00]
• Slotkin on the personal impact, intimidation, and hope for the future: [36:07] – [45:53]

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Tone and Atmosphere

The tone is urgent, passionate, and occasionally somber, but also resolute and hopeful. Wallace and the guests are candid about the scale of the threat democracy faces but are equally attentive to the acts of ordinary citizens, lawmakers, and institutions that are holding the line. Throughout, the mood is one of determined vigilance mixed with a call to action.

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For Listeners:

This episode offers a nuanced, firsthand view of the current political and legal crisis—“glimmers of hope and reasons for alarm”—and is particularly valuable for those seeking to understand not just what happened, but why it matters for the survival of American democracy.

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Transcript

[Andrew Weissman]

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[Nicole Wallace]

Hi there everybody. It's four o'clock in New York. There are both glimmers of hope and and reasons for serious alarm today when it comes to assessing the health of our democracy. Every authoritarian escalation by Donald Trump and his cabinet is being met with an equal and opposite reaction from the American people. Consider the news breaking last night that the Justice Department failed to secure an indictment against the six Democratic lawmakers who released a video simply reminding the men and women of the military that every one of them swore an oath to the Constitution and are thus duty bound to refuse any illegal orders. It's a message that in normal times would not be newsworthy, would not be controversial, frankly, wouldn't even need to be said. Our colleague Carol Lennig is reporting that prosecutors tried to charge the six with seditious conspiracy. That is a felony and it carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison. That is the same charge brought against the most violent and most organized insurrectionists behind the Capitol, behind the attack on the US Capitol on January 6th. And given that Donald Trump accused them of, quote, seeing seditious behavior punishable by death. This case was an attempt to turn the justice system into a tool for Donald Trump's vendettas. But a grand jury stood in the way of all that. New York Times puts it like this, quote, it was remarkable that the U.S. attorney's office in Washington, led by Jeanine Pirro, a longtime ally of Trump's, authorized prosecutors to go into a grand jury and asked for an indictment of the six members of Congress, all of whom had served in the military or the nation's spy agencies. But it was even more remarkable that a group of ordinary citizens sitting on the grand jury and federal district court in Washington forcefully rejected Trump's bid to label their expression of dissent as a criminal act warranting prosecution. Here's what two of those six lawmakers, Senators Alyssa Slotkin and Mark Kelly, had to say about the failed attempt to indict them at a press conference earlier today.

[Jason Crow]

Our democracy has been around for 250 years, but it is not guaranteed. From the very beginning of our nation, it has depended on the willingness of patriotic Americans to fight for it. Senator Slotkin and I, we did not ask for this. We're just the first through the breach. But you'll be damn sure that we are not going to back down.

[Alyssa Slotkin]

Some of you know that I recently lost my father a couple weeks ago. And my father taught me two things. He taught me right from wrong and he taught me to love this country. Senator Kelly and I have both served our country. We have risked our lives for our country. This country has given me everything. So if we have to sit here and take physical intimidation and legal intimidation to uphold the country we love, we will happily do that.

[Nicole Wallace]

This country has given me everything. That U.S. senator Phyllisa Slotkin will be our guest later in this hour. But in other news on Capitol Hill, Attorney General Pam Bondi faced sharp questioning and stern rebukes from Democrats today. Congressman Jamie Raskin accused her of turning the Justice Department into a, quote, vendetta factory as it pursues these cases and cases against anyone Donald Trump deems as a critic or opponent. Watch that.

[Jamie Raskin]

You and the president nominated Eric Siebert, a 15 year career prosecutor, to be your U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. But after five months of investigating Letitia James and James Comey, he found no evidence to justify criminal charges. So, so you forced him out. You replaced him with Lindsey Halligan, Trump's personal lawyer from the Mar A Lago documents case, who had zero prosecutorial experience and no qualifications. And then you were humiliated when a federal judge found that this corrupt appointment was blatantly unlawful and threw out Halligan's indictments entirely. And grand juries of American citizens have repeatedly rejected your vendettas and baseless indictments brought by the hacks left at doj. Now, with two different grand juries in Virginia voting down indictments against Letitia James in a single week. And just yesterday, another grand jury shut down your vendetta factory by rejecting indictments against the six members of Congress who had spoken out to remind all service members that they have a duty to refuse illegal orders. You tried to get a grand jury to indict six members of Congress who are veterans of our armed forces on charges of seditious conspiracy simply for exercising their First Amendment rights. I hope you will heed the wisdom and the constitutional patriotism of those grand jurors and not try it again by doubling down on that humiliation as your best lawyers are sacked for having participated in the January 6th case or just flee for the exits.

[Nicole Wallace]

That is where we begin today. Joining me now, former top DOJ official legal analyst Andrew Weissman is here with us. We with me at the table, New York Times investigative reporter Mike Schmidt, who is byline on that New York Times reporting. We read from. And JP Cooney is here. He was deputy to former special counsel Jack Smith, prosecuting both federal cases against Donald Trump. Today he announced that he is launching a congressional bid in Virginia. We'll talk to him about that race in a minute. But we start with this extraordinary of all the things that shouldn't become normal, it seems like federal prosecutors failing in front of grand juries to achieve indictments when they go in with just one side of the case is one thing that shouldn't become normal. I think we saw a rate of like 99.6% before the Trump era. This is not normal to go in and not get indictments.

[Andrew Weissman]

It is not normal. And it demonstrates the loss of trust and credibility that this Justice Department has with, I think all the American people, but with the citizens of the District of Columbia who were in that grand jury. The presumption of regularity of grand jury proceedings, of prosecutors going in good faith with evidence to a grand jury to seek charges is something that this Justice Department, this administration, has eroded by targeting its perceived political opponents, the people it disagrees with, with indictments like the one that they sought in the District of Columbia yesterday.

[Nicole Wallace]

But it's also happened in the Eastern.

[Andrew Weissman]

District of Virginia, which just illustrates again, this, this starts all the way at the top with the president, United States, and through his hand picked attorn, they are directing political prosecutions, ones not based on evidence, but based on people's beliefs and their disagreements with this administration. They're targeting their political opponents.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, Mike, take us to what you and your colleagues are reporting because it seems like, I mean, my understanding from the story is that and from covering a few of these now is that they go in and literally present one side of the case and grand juries hearing one side are saying, no.

[Mike Schmidt]

Yeah, look, this is something that we've never seen before, starting with the political prosecutions. So that that effort is clearly set off something with the average citizen. We now have several different examples of grand juries, including, you know, the individual who threw the sandwich you know, the cases of James and Comey, this case, there are different examples of the average citizen not taking the Justice Department at their word and not going along with the indictments that they want. And this comes back to a very simple thing. And Donald Trump was told this repeatedly by his aides in the first term, which is don't talk about prosecutions because whatever you say is the most powerful person in the country will cast a shadow on that case because everyone will think it is being done for you. So even if those prosecutors walked in yesterday and thought that they had all the evidence in the world and the greatest case that that could be, they are trying to overcome.

[Nicole Wallace]

Did they though think that they, the prosecutor.

[Mike Schmidt]

I don't know what they thought they had. But at the end of the day, the Justice Department can't do what Donald Trump wants cuz they're trying to overcome what he has said because no one is going to take the Justice Department at face value with when they are coming in to try and make a case against someone who he has publicly identified not just as an enemy, but someone who should be charged. And that is, and having to try to convince a jury of something when you're up against that, I think is shown to be a very difficult thing.

[Andrew Weissman]

And extends down not just to cases like the one that was presented in D.C. yesterday, but anecdotally I'm hearing in the District of Columbia that grand juries are no billing meaning refusing prosecutors indictments in cases involving guns and violent crime and things like that. And when, because they don't believe them, because they don't believe the prosecutors, it.

[Mike Schmidt]

Erodes the trust in the Justice Department. And this is the whole thing. It's like, well, why is the President of the United States supposed to have an arm's length distance from the Justice Department? It's because if he starts weighing, if he or she starts weighing in about it, then it casts a shadow on what they do. And the average person can't accept at face value that they are doing things simply based on the law and the fact.

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, Andrew Weisman, let me pull you in on this. I mean, I think that's because the average citizen is right. There is no crime in the six members of Congress using their First Amendment right to say something that I think is so accepted. It is the norm to say to the military, do not accept illegal orders. I think it's etched on a building somewhere. I mean it is the, the most non controversial thing you can say to and about the military.

[JP Cooney]

Yeah, I mean I, I agree Essentially with all of you. Not to sound like a Pollyanna, but I mean, it is absolutely right what Mike is saying. But it is also worth remembering they just don't have the facts. You know, there's. There's no crime there. There's a reason that the reporting is that the career people in the DCU Attorney's office, just like the career people in the Eastern District of Virginia, U.S. attorney's office, didn't have anything to do with this and wouldn't have anything to do with it, that it had to be handpicked people reporting to Janine Pirro, who went to the grand jury. That tells you everything as well as, of course, all of the people resigning because they can't stomach this. But just let's remember, they just do not have the facts. What it tells you is, of course, the grand jurors are just looking at the facts in the law. This isn't a question of jury nullification. This is a question of actually looking at the law and the facts and saying there's no there there. But what it tells you is how completely out of control and authoritarian Trump 2.0 is. And it tells you that the people who we were hearing were sort of on the Inside in Trump 1.0 really did have an effect. As bad as things were, as we saw from the outside, there is no one saying, no, no respectable prosecutor would ever, ever have presented this. And I know it sounds like people are thinking, oh, this is Democrats and Republicans. It isn't. And that's where people need to know, like, JP Is a career prosecutor who worked under, you know, administrations, Republican and Democratic. And so when we're talking about this, it has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with, you know, adhering to your oath of office and presenting a case only when the facts support it and the law supports it.

[Nicole Wallace]

Let me remind everyone what the issue was. This is the video that six Democratic lawmakers released.

[Alyssa Slotkin]

We know you are under enormous stress and pressure right now.

[Nicole Wallace]

Americans trust their military, but that trust is at risk.

[Jason Crow]

This administration is pitting our uniform military.

[Mike Schmidt]

And intelligence community professionals against American citizens like us.

[Jason Crow]

You all swore an oath to protect.

[Alyssa Slotkin]

And defend this Constitution.

[Jason Crow]

Right now, the threats to our Constitution aren't just coming from abroad, but from.

[Mike Schmidt]

Right here at home.

[Andrew Weissman]

Our laws are clear.

[Jason Crow]

You can refuse illegal orders.

[Alyssa Slotkin]

You can refuse illegal orders.

[JP Cooney]

You must refuse illegal orders.

[Nicole Wallace]

So, Andrew, after that video came out, Washington Post broke a story about a second strike on a strike that was publicized, actually, by Pete Hegseth. He released it on Twitter and Then went on Fox News to promote it. But there was a second strike that seemed to, according to members of Congress, violate the actual handbook definition of where the line exists. The example for crossing the line is to strike shipwrecked survivors of an initial strike. What is your sense as to how close to the nerve the six lawmakers got when they spoke directly to the men and women of the military?

[JP Cooney]

Well, let's add some extra facts to that. You remember when this administration started in 2.0 that the career leading military lawyers were all fired. Why would you do that?

[Andrew Weissman]

Yep.

[JP Cooney]

The Jacks. Why would you do that? Why do you not want that independent voice looking at the facts and the law as Just Security has reported? Every credible international law expert who looked at what this administration was doing in Venezuela thought that what was happening was illegal. Illegal. And everyone on the video that you just played has put their life on the line for this country. They, they have walked the walk. They, they are entitled to make that video. They're entitled for what they've done for this country to say those things. And you can imagine having served in that capacity, the feeling that you are asking people who they've, they've been in those shoes that they are, can understand what it would be like to have senior people pressuring them to do something that they feel and that is widely viewed as illegal. And so what they stated was the law and the fact that there were people who were willing to present this to a grand jury, that's the story. It's, it's, of course, it's great that the grand jurors did their duty. Of course they should do their duty. It's nice to know that people act out of principle. It's a shame that none of the people who presented it adhere to their oath of office, because this is just nothing normal in any, I just want to make sure people understand in any administration, Republican or Democratic, this would not be done.

[Nicole Wallace]

So who is it that they get to present this case against six Democratic lawmakers to a grand jury?

[Mike Schmidt]

I'm not exactly sure who presented the case itself. The office is run by Judge Jeanine. Judge Jeanine has some deputies, at least one deputy that she brought in with her. Look, the thing that sticks out to me as the most important thing and the larger arc of the story here is that Donald Trump is struggling to create criminality about his enemies. And coming into his administration, that was a big fear that Democrats and other folks had, was that he was going to come in and be able to put his enemies in prison. And we now have several different examples of him, the administration, running into major roadblocks around that. And if he cannot create criminality and he cannot put his enemies in prison. I realize that that doesn't sound normal, but it does reduce some of his power and how he wants to use power. And that is not an insignificant thing. As you try to understand what is going on with the Trump story and what he's trying to do.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, the flip side of that might be that it's amazing that we're even there where a person is trying to manufacture phony. I mean, it's something that happens in bad movies and banana republics.

[Andrew Weissman]

It is astonishing. I mean, I worked in the justice department for almost 18 years across Republican administrations, Democratic administrations. The notion that a prosecutor would go to a grand jury and present not just weak evidence, but false evidence based on the direction of a president of the United States or based on a campaign against enemies is astonishing. Is not even the word. It's a. It's a.

[Nicole Wallace]

Is it illegal?

[Andrew Weissman]

That. That is illegal. And that's a Justice Department that I do not recognize.

[Nicole Wallace]

So how. How are there. Do you still know people in the office in which you served?

[Andrew Weissman]

I do.

[Nicole Wallace]

And how are they sort of getting up and going there in the morning?

[Andrew Weissman]

I cannot tell you how much I admire the fact that they can get up and continue to do their jobs every day, because I do. The career prosecutors that I know at the Justice Department, in the D.C. u.S. Attorney's office, throughout the country, they are committed to the rule of law. They're committed to the Constitution. And in a circumstance like this one, it's my understanding that not a single career prosecutor signed on to that proposed seditious conspiracy indictment or went before the grand jury, much like in the indictment of James Comey, that career prosecutors simply wouldn't sign on because they will stand up because they stand for the rule of law. They stand for the Constitution.

[Nicole Wallace]

But I guess in your telling that it's illegal and something you don't recognize, would you guess that they're only able to get up and do this thing that you're proud of until they're asked to cross that line?

[Andrew Weissman]

I think when they're asked to cross that line, they will not cross that line. And I think the career prosecutors who go to work every day presenting the majority of the cases, like throughout the country, to protect public safety, they're doing it in good faith. They're doing it based on the evidence. But they are hamstrung by this administration because grand jurors or jurors in criminal jury trials no longer trust U.S. department of Justice.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, yeah. All right. No one's going anywhere. We're just getting started. We'll talk more with JP about the purge at DOJ and why he's decided to jump into politics. We think that's a good thing. Also ahead for us, Senator Alyssa Slotkin will be our guest following the Justice Department's failed attempt to indict her and five of her comments colleagues for manufactured crime for simply exercising her right to speech to remind members of the military to follow the law. Plus, more from the Pam Bondi hearing today. Facing several of the survivors from Jeffrey Epstein's atrocious child sex trafficking abuse, the attorney general was unwilling to apologize over her and her department's handling of the release of the files. Lawmakers at the hearing today called it a failure and nothing short of a cover up. We'll get to all that and more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

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[Jason Crow]

Every American should be raving pissed that they're using taxpayer dollars in the public trust of the Department of Justice to go after political opponents weaponizing their justice system. Who's supposed to be going after real criminals and keeping our communities safe? That's one. Two. If these do think they're going to intimidate and bully me and get me to back down from doing my duty, they have another thing coming. I went to war three times for this country in Iraq and Afghanistan as an Army Ranger and paratrooper. I took an oath. It is a lifetime oath, and I'm never backing down from.

[Nicole Wallace]

What do you think it says?

[Andrew Weissman]

Firstly, that federal prosecutors made this attempt to indict you guys, and then secondly, that a grand jury rejected it.

[Alyssa Slotkin]

I mean, what does it say about both the administration and the grand jury.

[Andrew Weissman]

And the charges that were attempted to be levied against you?

[Jason Crow]

The story is not that a grand jury rejected it. Of course a grand jury rejected it, because it's a damn joke.

[Mike Schmidt]

Right?

[Jason Crow]

The real story here is that they even tried in the first place, that they have a bunch of stooges and clowns at DOJ who are just willing to do Donald Trump's bidding.

[Alyssa Slotkin]

Right?

[Jason Crow]

That is scary. And it's also an injustice to every American. Thank you.

[Nicole Wallace]

That was Congressman Jason Crow today reacting to the news that DOJ tried and failed to indict him and five other lawmakers for the video that we played you a couple minutes ago, simply urging men and women of the military to refuse to follow any illegal order. The stand that those lawmakers have taken, the stand taken by Americans from all walks of life, is inspiring more people to get into the arena. Our guest, J.P. cooney, has served. He's been a public servant for years. But he says that the shocking and tragic shooting of VA nurse Alex Preddy by federal agents was the moment he decided he had to jump into the fray and run for Congress. He told the New York Times this, quote, never has there been a Congress that has been such a weak and ineffective check on a president's abuses of power. I lie awake every night worrying that Donald Trump does not have the best interests of our country in mind. And that's a seismic shift in American leadership and politics. Former special counsel Jack Smith is out with a statement about his colleague's run for Congress. About that, he says this, quote, I've known JP For a long time. I think the world of him As a person and as a public servant, he's a man of integrity who has committed his career to upholding the rule of law. And he is the model of who our country needs in public service. We're back with Andrew, Mike and jp. It's quite a ringing endorsement. I think it is really interesting that someone who saw Donald Trump's criminality and investigated a case to a point where Jack Smith just recently testified before Congress that it was a case he would still bring, based on the facts and believes that he would have prevailed at trial, to jump into electoral politics. Just say a little bit more about the impact of the killing of Alex Preddy and the current political moment on your decision to do that.

[Andrew Weissman]

Well, when I saw the killing of Alex Preddy by Border Patrol officers in Minnesota, and I saw with my own two eyes what occurred there, and then heard the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security get out and tell lies and slander him who is engaged in lawful, constitutionally protected activity. I just, I realize that people with me, with my experience, with my background, really have to get in the fight here because our country faces the gravest threat that, that I am ever aware of, and it is in the hands of a president who threatens our democracy. Our rule of law are fundamental values that when people work hard, when they play by the rules, that they can uplift themselves and provide a more secure future. And while that's going on, we have a Congress, a Republican controlled Congress, that is enabling the lawlessness of this president, that is complicit in his abuses of power. And that's why I wanted to bring my 18 years of experience in the Justice Department to bear on it. And I'm asking people to join the fight. And they can do that. If they go to couneyforcongress.com, they can join us in standing up to this president and enforcing the rule of law and getting back to the work of the American people.

[Nicole Wallace]

You also worked at the highest levels in combating corruption. Talk about that, if that'll be part of the story you tell voters in Virginia.

[Andrew Weissman]

Absolutely. Corruption is one of the greatest threats to economic security, to democracy. And the thing that I am most proud of in my career at the Justice Department is my independence, my integrity. And that, that was something that career prosecutors throughout the department carried with them all the time. You know, when I informed friends that I was going to get into this race, when I made my announcement, many of them asked me, wait a minute, which party are you going to run in a Republican primary or a Democratic primary. And that's because at the Justice Department, politics played no role whatsoever in our work. And I want to bring that perspective to bear in the United States Congress to confront the challenges that Donald Trump is putting right before us.

[Nicole Wallace]

Do you believe Donald Trump was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of the charges that were brought against him?

[Andrew Weissman]

I would not have participated in a prosecution of Donald Trump or any person if I was not convinced that we had the evidence to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And it is really devastating for the American people and for our justice system that we never had the opportunity to present that evidence. Because I am confident that had we had the opportunity to present the evidence of his unlawful handling of classified documents in the Southern District of Florida and his efforts to overturn the valid results of the 2020 election in the District of Columbia, that juries in both jurisdictions would have found him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Mike Schmidt]

What do you say to those people who say that the Justice Department moved too slowly to investigate Trump and because of that, has some responsibility for the fact that he's president now?

[Andrew Weissman]

Well, at the Justice Department, we always operate based on the facts in the law. And like I said, it's unfortunate, and not just unfortunate, it's devastating for the American people that, you know, as a matter of fact, we just ran out of time. But that question.

[Nicole Wallace]

But you run out of time because Merrick Garland doesn't bring Jack Smith in until many, many months after January 6th.

[Andrew Weissman]

We ran out of time because of the court system, because of the 2024 election. But throughout the course of that case and that prosecution, there was never an effort to get to a certain point of time or to beat an election. Because the only thing that animated that prosecution, the only goal was to get the evidence before a court, to follow the facts where they led and to apply those facts to the law. And where that led us to was a decision that he should be indicted both in Florida and in Washington, D.C.

[Nicole Wallace]

Andrew Weissman, how much do you think this belief by career prosecutors, whose partisanship is unknown even to some of their closest colleagues, how much do you think that drives Donald Trump's obsession with revenge?

[JP Cooney]

I think that he basically has a sort of very sort of base level of, if you came after me, I'm going to come after you. Because if you're trying to run an autocracy and an authoritarian regime, and let's just get real about what we're talking about just on just today, we're talking about a baseless prosecution of sitting members of Congress that was rejected we have just yesterday, the affidavit where the FBI went in to get ballots in Georgia. And my reading of that affidavit is not only did it not state probable cause, but it woefully left out all of the exculpatory material that the department had an obligation to tell the court. Um, we're, We're. This is just not normal. This is an authoritarian regime. But to your point in the question, Nicole, is anybody who stands up to that is going to be flattened. And you see it in all, all sorts of ways, whether it's the legal profession, whether it's businessmen, whether it's people on air, whether it's people like Jack Smith and people who worked for Jack Smith, anybody who is a Czech. And that is why you were seeing Jeanine Pirro and Pam Bondi do whatever it is they're told to do and have zero pushback. I did have a question for JP Though, if you don't mind, which is, what do you say to the people who say, oh, look, see, you're political. You were engaged in a political endeavor when you were working for Jack Smith, and now you're just taking it on the road. And I wonder if you could try and put. People sort of know you because of the work you did for Jack Smith. And I wonder if you could talk more about your career and if there are any examples of being apolitical since you worked at the department under various administrations.

[Andrew Weissman]

Well, thank you for the question, Andrew. And the. I think the work that I did at the Justice Department, the work that Jack Smith did at the Justice Department, other career prosecutors, it speaks for, for itself. It was independent, it was nonpartisan. And during my career, I prosecuted Democrats and I prosecuted Republicans. I prosecuted Senator Robert Menendez, one of the most powerful Democrats in the United States Senate, the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. And I also happened to be on the team that prosecuted Donald Trump. And the way it has always worked at the Justice Department is we just follow the facts and the law. But throughout Jack Smith's investigation and throughout every investigation that I always worked on, our independence rang in the way in which we conducted our work. And I gotta tell you, it wasn't just me that people didn't know my politics, I didn't know theirs. It was not a subject that came up at the office.

[Nicole Wallace]

Let me ask you one more question about the case you worked on around January 6th. When you see Donald Trump going into the Georgia election office. How much of the evidence that you developed around his guilt in the election interference case is conduct that you see him repeating now as president.

[Andrew Weissman]

It's exactly what he is doing as president. He's engaged in a campaign of falsehoods to try and discredit valid election results, to try and intimidate people who would challenge him, people who would stand up to him. And it's also part of a pattern of his political conduct. Donald Trump is engaged in this because he knows that he has lost the support of the American people, he has lost their trust, and he is just returning to a tired playbook that he tried to run in 2020 and that he's run throughout his both of his administrations. That when he's on the run, when he's on his heels, then he turns to lies, he turns to falsehoods, and he targets the electoral process when he knows he can't win in a straight up election.

[Nicole Wallace]

So if he commits the same crimes, could he be held accountable for those crimes in the future?

[Andrew Weissman]

He can. Unless he pardons himself.

[Nicole Wallace]

Oh, God, that feels like Candyland. Several steps down the game board. Andrew Weissman, thank you for being part of this conversation. Mike and JP Stick around a little bit longer. After the break, we will have a chance to talk to Senator Lissa Slotkin. There's much more ahead. Please don't go anywhere.

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[Alyssa Slotkin]

Some of you know that I recently lost my father a couple weeks ago. And my father taught me two things. He taught me right from wrong, and he taught me to love this country. Senator Kelly and I have both served our country. We have risked our lives for our country. This country has given me everything. So if we have to sit here and take physical intimidation and legal intimidation to uphold the country we love, we will happily do that.

[Nicole Wallace]

Wow. Joining us now, Democratic Senator Alyssa Slotkin of Michigan. She's a member of the Armed Services Committee, one of the lawmakers that Donald Trump's Department of Justice tried and failed to indict yesterday over a video message simply advising the men and women of the military to reject illegal orders. Thank you for being here.

[Alyssa Slotkin]

Sure. Happy to be here.

[Nicole Wallace]

You got me with this. That the country has given you everything and that you doing your job includes telling the men and women of the military that they must not follow in a legal order. Do you have any better understanding today than you did when you made the video or the last time we talked about as to why that was so triggering for Donald Trump to say those things?

[Alyssa Slotkin]

No. I mean, it was a 90 second video where we were restating current law and he went high and right, as we'd say at the Pentagon, and tweeted about us over a dozen times that we should be investigated, arrested, and ultimately hanged. And part of what happened yesterday was his people, you know, his political folks following up on what he said. You know, we were investigated, and then they tried to get a criminal indictment against us yesterday, trying to get us arrested. So, you know, the heroes of Yesterday were these 20 anonymous grand jury members. I don't know who they are. They were picked at random. And they taught us more about just basic democracy and rule of law than the President of the United States and the Attorney general. So, you know, it's a positive thing the way it came out, but it should have never happened.

[Nicole Wallace]

Do you worry that he'll take the case against the six of you to other jurisdictions and try to achieve an indictment?

[Alyssa Slotkin]

Yeah. I mean, look, we knew doing a press conference, we knew pushing back on this, you know, the voluntary inquiry, we knew that going on offense could easily piss him off and piss them off and result in more legal action. But the truth is, by sitting on our hands and doing nothing, we Also were incurring risk, right. That the investigations kept coming when we were quiet. So if it's going to be bad when you're quiet, you might as well go on offense and have this conversation publicly. And to me, I just, I think that, you know, look, I'm a sitting senator. I have, you know, I could create a legal defense fund. I could, I could go on TV shows like this. The average person, you know, sitting home in Michigan can't do that. You know, if the president comes for a small business owner or a community leader or a mom who goes viral on TikTok, you know, that legal intimidation and the threat of having to get a lawyer and pay for that lawyer, and the physical intimidation when his followers follow what he says and threaten you and threaten your parents, that is enough to keep a lot of people quiet. And that's the point. The intimidation is the point. Physical intimidation and legal intimidation, so that other people watch this episode and say, not for me. I'm just not going to get involved. I'm not going to push back on Trump. So I think, certainly for me, I was more than happy to take this on and to do it on behalf of just basic things like the rule of law.

[Nicole Wallace]

Do you have information that suggests men and women are receiving illegal orders?

[Alyssa Slotkin]

So, certainly, certainly for me, the reason why I organized the video in the fall was because we were getting lots of folks, veterans, but also people in uniform, both in active duty and National Guard, who were like, I'm really worried that I'm going to be asked to do something that is illegal, or I'm hearing that that's happening, or I'm not sure. And I went to my JAG officer and I tried to be sure that what I was being asked to do was legal. And certainly, if you look at what's going on in places like Minneapolis right now, that's not uniform military, but it certainly could be. The president was sending National Guard all over the country, and that was the fear was that you would have uniformed military in our city streets asked to do something against American citizens. And I know the military doesn't want to be doing that. They're not trained for that. So we were certainly hearing a chorus of voices, both in the United States, but also folks in, you know, you know, in the Caribbean and the Pacific. So it was a chorus of voices.

[Nicole Wallace]

When you look at the way Donald Trump is talking about the midterms, do you worry that that dynamic is very much a possibility in our future, our near future?

[Alyssa Slotkin]

I don't think anyone should kid Themselves. The President of the United States tells you what he's going to do before he does it. He's been talking about, he said we should federalize the elections, okay? That means the federal government, that means him, run all of our elections in 50 states, literally opposite to how our founding fathers set up our voting system so that no one could become a king. He's been talking about and members of his cabinet have been talking about we may have to deploy federal law enforcement around voting locations if there's a problem. He sent the federal government into Georgia to go collect ballots from 2020 because he hasn't accepted that he lost that election. The man tells us what he's going to do. So at this point, I mean, there are certainly groups of us up here who take that, take him at his word, and are working to make sure that we have free and fair elections come November. It's the most important thing we can do. So, no, I take him at his word.

[Nicole Wallace]

You talked today about losing your dad a couple weeks ago. We are so sorry for your loss. But you also talked about the two things he taught you right from wrong and to love your country. I've talked to people who served in the military, or as you did, alongside the military as an intelligence officer, and they say this privately, that they've never loved their country more because now it feels like it needs us to love it back, that it could slip away. Does that resonate with you?

[Alyssa Slotkin]

Yeah. I mean, I do not feel pessimistic about our country. I know we will come through this moment that we're having in our history. We've come through really tough moments before. And every single time, we come through it with two things, engaged citizens and principled leaders. Every single time, people on the ground like we see in Minneapolis or these grand jurors yesterday, do a little bit more than they're used to doing on behalf of their country. And then there are principled leaders of both parties ready to receive the ball and do something about it. I have no doubt that we will go through this chapter of our history the same way we've gone through other troubled chapters of our history. We're going to have to fight for it. And right now, instead of leadership coming from the top and leading the country the way I grew up and you grew up during the Cold War, you look to the president to lead. You look to senior cabinet members to lead, to tell you how to be, it's the opposite. Now, if you want to see leadership, it's happening on the ground, from citizens who aren't in the halls of power, but who understand that this is existential for our country.

[Nicole Wallace]

Did a single Republican approach you today to talk about what Donald Trump's Department of Justice tried to do yesterday in indicting you?

[Alyssa Slotkin]

You know, a number of my Republican Senate colleagues have been asked in the hallways. Some have put out, like Senator Thom Tillis have put out good statements. Others have been asked in the hallway and have said, you know, decently good things. This affects every single one of us. If a sitting senator can be, you know, potentially indicted for a 90 second video on free speech, so, so can others. So it should be a universal effort. But, you know, I'll take what I can get from the handful that said something smart.

[Nicole Wallace]

Are you surprised that they tried to indict all of you with seditious conspiracy?

[Alyssa Slotkin]

We don't know exactly what they, what their real, you know, criminal allegation was. We just have hearsay from the, from the media. We're like, you know, of reporting. But it doesn't surprise me. It doesn't surprise me because this is their playbook. It's an authoritarian playbook that I could show you from a bunch of countries I've served in abroad and a bunch of places I've studied my whole life. There's a playbook where you use and weaponize the federal government against people you disagree with to get them to shut up. So, you know, seven days ago, they were asking us to voluntarily come and sit for this inquiry. When we said no, they went again, what we'd call high and right, and they went to court. So it doesn't surprise me. It shouldn't surprise anyone anymore. The president believes the federal government is a tool of his political machine, and he's acting that way.

[Nicole Wallace]

You talked a little bit about the access you have to lawyers to establish a legal defense fund to use the media to talk about what they're doing. Where do we sort of protect or move to protect ordinary citizens who are being targeted or detained for simply exercising their First Amendment rights to protest, for example?

[Alyssa Slotkin]

Yeah, I mean, first of all, we have to be good partners and allies and actually defend people, you know, who are, who are being taken into custody. Right. We saw in the case of journalism Don Lemon. But there was a lesser known kind of online news person who got picked up as well. We have to defend those we know and those we don't when we hear about those stories. But I will also say, I think, you know, in 2026, just the vibe feels different. And, you know, fear is contagious. But so is courage. And I just keep seeing more examples in 20, 26 of people just taking an ounce more risk holding hands together. Minneapolis is a perfect example of just people saying, I'm just not going to put up with it anymore. And we're going to kind of jump together, holding hands, into the breach because it's the country we love. And I've seen that more a lot lately. And it is, it is contagious, that courage.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. Yeah. Minneapolis definitely feels like change, something for all of us. Senator Eliza Slotkin, thank you for joining us on this and all this, all these topics today. We're grateful. I want to thank Mike and JP hopefully. To be continued as you head out there and launch your campaign. We'll talk about that in the coming days and weeks. We'll continue to cover it here. Thank you for being here on your reporting. One more break. We'll be right back. The search for Nancy Guthrie, the mother of TODAY show anchor Savannah Guthrie, continues today with several updates in the last 24 hours, but still no arrests. Eleven days after the disappearance of today's show anchor Savannah Guthrie's mom, authorities say they've received more than 4,000 calls since releasing these photos and videos of a subject in the investigation with the FBI director saying they've made, quote, substantial progress and that he believes they are, quote, looking at people who are persons of interest, end quote. Overnight, we learned that as part of follow up on incoming leads, authorities detained, questioned and then released one man. They also searched his home about an hour south of Tucson, Arizona. The FBI said today that agents are conducting an extensive search along the roadways near Nancy Guthrie's home. They continue to ask that anyone with any information call 1-800-call FBI. You could also call 911, or you could call the Pima County Sheriff's office at 520-351-4900. When we come back, from covering up the names of billionaires to releasing the names and addresses of the survivors, the Trump administration's handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files were the focus of a contentious hearing today on Capitol Hill. We'll show that to you next.

[Andrew Weissman]

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[Alyssa Slotkin]

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[Alyssa Slotkin]

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[JP Cooney]

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[Nicole Wallace]

I'm so relieved.

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[Andrew Weissman]

I'll be with you every step of the way.

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