"ICE Tactics in the Spotlight"

Summary

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Deadline: White House – "ICE Tactics in the Spotlight"

Date: February 3, 2026
Host: Nicolle Wallace, MSNBC NOW

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Episode Overview

This intense and emotional episode of Deadline: White House, hosted by Nicolle Wallace, brings to light the deeply troubling and violent tactics used by ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) under the Trump administration. In a live, breaking-news format, Wallace presents firsthand testimonies from survivors, family members, and experts, exposing not only the physical brutality of ICE operations but the lasting psychological damage and erosion of public trust in federal law enforcement. The discussion extends to the broader implications for American democracy, with panelists calling for urgent reform and reckoning.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Powerful Survivor Testimonies from Capitol Hill

[01:34–21:04]

• Physical and Psychological Trauma:
  Survivors who experienced ICE violence share their stories in Congressional testimony.

  • Renee Goode describes being shot five times by federal agents, recounting permanent physical disabilities, relentless pain, and deep psychological scars. She mourns for others who weren’t as lucky to survive, stressing the epidemic of official brutality:

    “The physical scars will always be there... and perhaps even worse, the mental scars will always be there as a reminder of the time my own government attempted to execute me and when they fell, they chose to vilify me.”
    —Renee Goode, [01:34]

  • Aliya Rahman, an autistic and disabled U.S. citizen, details a terrifying traffic stop and subsequent detention, including brutal treatment and lack of due process—being referred to as “a body” by ICE agents, denied medical care, and left with ongoing disabilities.

    “You have no reason to believe you will make it out alive if you are already being called a body.”
    —Aliya Rahman, [09:00]

  • Daniel Rascon recounts ICE and HSI agents’ masked, militarized assault on his family’s vehicle, the shooting at them with no identification, and the subsequent traumatic home raid where more than 50 armed agents and officers invaded:

    “How do you move on from knowing someone tried to kill you and people you love for no reason?”
    —Daniel Rascon, [20:00]

• Pattern of Escalation:
  The stories reveal increasingly militarized, intrusive, and unaccountable actions by ICE and Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), often affecting U.S. citizens as collateral.

2. Expert Panel Analysis – Breakdown of the Department and Loss of Public Trust

[21:04–34:02]

• Systemic Rot and Calls for Dismantling DHS:
  Former FBI agent Michael Feinberg and ex-DHS Chief of Staff Miles Taylor both argue that DHS (and ICE within it) have drifted so far from law enforcement norms that dismantling the agency is now a mainstream, not fringe, position.

  “We have gotten to the point where the rot at DHS is so pervasive and so deep into the structure of the organization that... we need to have a very serious, very sober conversation as a nation about how... we dismantle this department. Because what they are doing is nothing... anyone would recognize as law enforcement. What they are doing is simply meting out state-sanctioned barbarism and cruelty.”
  —Michael Feinberg, [29:09]

• Erosion of Law Enforcement Legitimacy:
  The segment underscores how ICE’s tactics have “divided law enforcement,” alienating even local police leaders and undermining public trust.

• Impact on Children and Families:
  U.S. Congressman Joaquin Castro highlights child trauma, with stories like Liam Ramos—used as bait by ICE—underscoring brutal physical and psychological consequences for children detained by immigration authorities.

3. Media Coverage and Dangers for Journalists

[31:29–33:20]

• Reporting in a Conflict Zone:
  NPR immigration correspondent Jasmine Gard likens Minneapolis to a war zone due to the violence she covers, including being tear gassed twice while reporting on largely peaceful protests:

  “I had a friend text me and say, be really careful out there. You’ve become a war correspondent now.... Hearing these testimonies, it was akin to places that I’ve been in [under dictatorship].”
  —Jasmine Gard, [31:29]

4. Grief and the Human Cost

[36:08–39:25]

• Testimony by Renee Goode’s Brothers:
  Luke and Brent Ganger eulogize their sister, expressing heartbreak that her death hasn’t brought change and using the metaphor of dandelions in sunlight to capture her spirit.

  “Dandelions don’t ask permission to grow...that was Renee in sunlight. Warm, steady, life giving. Because when she walked in a room, things felt lighter, even on cloudy days....”
  —Brother of Renee Goode, [36:23]

5. Cycle of Impunity and Lack of Federal Accountability

[45:26–47:50]

• Stephen Miller's Role & Lack of Consequences:
  Panelists condemn White House advisor Stephen Miller as the architect of much of ICE’s brutality and note that the federal government refuses to police its law-breaking agents, often shielding them with “absolute immunity.”

  “The federal government, because of people like Stephen Miller, is no longer even policing its own people. It’s literally hiding lawbreaking agents from public accountability.... Now local prosecutors are being forced to try to bring cases against the federal government just to protect the rights of their citizens.”
  —Miles Taylor, [46:06]

• Local Prosecutors Filling the Void:
  The Minneapolis district attorney is close to deciding whether to charge ICE agents for killings, with new initiatives like federaloverreach.org emerging to tackle the crisis of impunity.

6. Closing Reflections – American Identity, Resistance, and Hope

[50:21–52:54]

• Celebrity Resistance and Breaking Trump’s Narrative:
  Public demonstrations—celebrities wearing “ICE OUT” pins, critical Grammy speeches—are impacting the President’s image and narrative, indicating growing public resistance.

• Call for Civic Engagement and Solidarity:
  Feinberg invokes Teddy Roosevelt’s “man in the arena” to call all Americans, regardless of partisanship, to stand in defense of rights and against creeping authoritarianism:

  “Now is the time that every American, regardless of their political leanings...needs to become that person. It’s not an exaggeration to say that our rights and our liberties are very much at risk.... I’m heartened and emboldened by what I see in Minnesota. The citizens of Minneapolis are doing exactly what American citizens have done since the revolution when their rights and their way of life is threatened.”
  —Michael Feinberg, [51:34]

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Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• “The mental scars will always be there as a reminder of the time my own government attempted to execute me and when they fell, they chose to vilify me.”
  —Renee Goode, survivor [03:28]

• “You have no reason to believe you will make it out alive if you are already being called a body.”
  —Aliya Rahman, survivor [09:00]

• “How do you move on from knowing someone tried to kill you and people you love for no reason?”
  —Daniel Rascon, survivor [20:00]

• “I am as resolutely pro law enforcement as they come. I carried a badge and a gun for most of my adult career.... What they are doing is simply meting out state sanctioned barbarism and cruelty.”
  —Michael Feinberg [29:09]

• “Dandelions don’t ask permission to grow.... That was Renee in sunlight. Warm, steady, life giving.... She chose to look for what was good, what was possible, and what was worth loving.”
  —Brother of Renee Goode [37:03]

• “If this is how American citizens are being treated in broad daylight...what is your best answer to how asylum seekers and immigrants and migrants are being treated without cameras and without accountability?”
  —Nicolle Wallace [25:20]

• “When this administration is done with those of Hispanic descent, they're going to move on to another group. And it’s time for us to all stand up and resolutely shout that it is not acceptable.”
  —Michael Feinberg [51:50]

• “I think it’s more important than ever...to trust their eyes. I think it’s also important to pick wisely whose eyes you trust.”
  —Jasmine Gard [49:08]

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Important Segments and Timestamps

• [01:34–11:58]: Survivor/eyewitness testimonies (Renee Goode, Aliya Rahman)
• [11:58–21:04]: Daniel Rascon’s account of ICE violence against his family
• [21:04–34:02]: Panel discussion on the implications, expert and journalist analysis
• [36:08–39:25]: Testimony from Renee Goode’s brothers on grief and perseverance
• [45:26–47:50]: The lack of federal accountability, local prosecutors stepping in
• [51:34–52:54]: Closing call for collective action and historical perspective

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Episode Tone & Language

This episode is urgent, raw, and resolute—mixing the matter-of-fact testimony of survivors with the sober, sometimes incredulous assessments of experts and journalists. There’s a strong undercurrent of grief, determination, and ultimately hope, with the repeated reminder that civic action and solidarity remain powerful tools against state overreach.

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This summary conveys all major topics, memorable quotes, and the emotional impact of the episode for those who did not listen.

Transcript

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[Host Nicole]

It's 4 o' clock in New York. Happening right now in Washington, D.C. an extraordinary accounting of the violence and brutality that the Trump administration has inflicted on people living in all corners of our country. People who have either experienced firsthand the violent handling and tactics of federal agents or have lost loved ones because of those tactics. They're testifying on Capitol Hill right now. We're going to listen in.

[Survivor Renee Goode]

As I struggle, I struggle every day with the physical pain and the suffering. I cannot close my hand yet to hold the pen. I try to play with the children at my school and I am in a significant pain as I attempt to do things I was easily able to do before October 4th. I attend weekly physical therapy sessions to work on these issues and hope one day I can move in the same way I was able to move prior to October 4th. I know that what happened to me in the matter of seconds on October 4th will unfortunately be with me for a lifetime. The physical scars will always be there in the mornings and evenings when I get dressed and I stare at my body, now permanently disfigured by the five lead bullets X on fire into me. They will be there this summer when I head to the beach with my dogs and family. They will be there when I get down on the floor with my students and work with them on their motor skills. And perhaps even worse, the mental scars will always be there as a reminder of the time my own government attempted to execute me and when they fell, they chose to vilify me. I am Renee Goode I am Alex Preddy. I am Silverio Viega Gonzalez. I am Keith Porter. They should all be here today. I know each of them will trade my bullet wounds, a lifetime of mental distress and a heartbeat to be able to be back with their loved ones this afternoon. And we must also remember the countless other souls who lost their lives at the hands of these entrusted with authority. I know that by being a survivor, it is my duty to be here today to let you elected officials know what is happening on the streets of our country. Because silence is no longer an option. This needs to stop now. Why do we continue to wait for more public executions when we have already seen the evidence in our TVs and computer screens? We have heard the testimonies. We have watched the pain unfold in real time. How many more lives must be lost before meaningful action is taken? The United States is and will always be a country of immigrants built by immigrants. We are a country of love and tolerance. This is the land of the free, the land of the opportunity, and the great nation that people around the world aspire to call home. And prior to this recent war on immigrants, we were a country where law enforcement acted lawfully and appropriately with respect of all human life. I am happy to see people of different nationalities speak up. This is the spirit of love, unity and courage. This will make America great. I am asking you today, pleading with you to please help bring back the America I grew up loving and idolizing. An America that values human dignity, protects life, and lives up to the ideals our founding Fathers proudly proclaim. If there's no justice for the people, let there be no peace for the government. Thank you for your time.

[Moderator]

Thank you, Ms. Martinez, Ms. Rahman. And I'm going to suggest to the witnesses that we stay to five minutes because we're running a little bit behind. Thank you.

[Guest or Interviewee Aliya Rahman]

Thank you, members, for taking time to be here today, and thank you, staff, for making this happen. My name is Aliya Rahman, and I am a resident of South Minneapolis. I'm a Bangladeshi American born in Northern Wisconsin, and I'm a disabled person with autism and a traumatic brain injury. Not all autistic brains do this, but mine fixates on sounds, numbers and patterns. While what the world saw happen to me exactly three weeks ago today on video was a terrible violation, it is still nothing compared to the horrific practices I saw inside the Whipple Center. So I am here today with a duty to the people who have not had the privilege of coming home. And I offer this data because these practices must end now. On January 13th on the way to my 39th appointment at Hennepin County's Traumatic Brain Injury Center, I encountered a traffic jam caused by ICE vehicles and no signs indicating how to get around it. I had not wanted to pull into a blocked, chaotic intersection, but verbally agreed to do so and rolled down my window after an agent yelled, move. I will break your effing window. His first instruction. Agents on all sides of my vehicle yelled conflicting threats and instructions that I could not process while watching for pedestrians. Then the glass of the passenger side window flew across my face. I yelled, I'm disabled. At the hands grabbing at me, and an agent said, too late. I felt immersed in a pattern and I thought of Genoa Donald, an autistic black man killed by police during a traffic stop in 2021. I remembered Mr. Siberio Gonzalez, who was killed by ICE in his vehicle last year. An agent pulled a large combat knife in front of my face, which I thought was for cutting me and later learned was used to cut off my seatbelt. Shooting pain went through my head, neck and wrists when I hit the ground face first and people leaned on my back. I felt the pattern and I thought of Mr. George Floyd, who was killed four blocks away. I was carried face down through the street by my cuffed arms and legs while yelling that I had a brain injury and was disabled. I now cannot lift my arms normally. I was never asked for id, never told I was under arrest, never read my rights and never charged with a crime. Approaching the Whipple Center, I saw black and brown bodies shackled together, chained together, being marched by yelling agents outdoors. I continue to hear the word bodies because that is how agents refer to us. We're bringing in a body. They're bringing in bodies. Seven, eight at a time. Where do I put them? We can't use that room. There's already a body in there. You have no reason to believe you will make it out alive if you are already being called a body. Agents repeatedly had to stop and ask how to do tasks. I received no medical screening, phone call or access to a lawyer. I was denied a communication navigator when my speech began to slur. Asians laughed as I tried to immobilize my own neck. I asked for my cane and was told no, pulled up my arms and prodded forward in leg irons by agents, laughing and saying, walk. You can do it walk. Agents did not know if the facility had a wheelchair. When I was finally placed in one to be taken to interrogation, an agent taunted, you were driving, right? So your legs do work. I pleaded for emergency medical care for over an hour after my vision had become blurry, my heart rate went through the roof and the pain in my neck and head became unbearable. It was denied. When I became unable to speak, my cellmate pleaded for me. The last sounds I remember before I blacked out on the cell floor were my cellmate banging on the door, pleading for a medic, and a voice outside saying we don't want to step on ice'. When I opened my eyes at Hennepin County's emergency room, I learned I was brought there to be treated for assault. The impacts of DHS detention on my physical, mental and financial well being and safety have been very severe. But I do not deserve more humane treatment than anyone else US citizen or or not. And I am here today with a strong spirit and a duty to the many people who haven't had the privilege to tell their stories or see their loved ones come home. I am extremely distressed by the pattern that violence from law enforcement has been happening to black and indigenous communities for centuries and to DHS survivors for over 20 years. We call ourselves a civilized nation, but we lack rules and accountability around what a person claiming to be law enforcement is permitted to do to another human being. I am not afraid and I'm not afraid to keep working on this problem even after ice is gone. Thank you for your time.

[Moderator]

Thank you Ms. Rahman. Mr. Ascohan, hello, hello, Good afternoon and thank you for allowing our story to be heard. I am Daniel Rascon, a 23 year old US citizen from SoCal. I'm the eldest of three brothers and father to a nearly three week old baby girl. I operate a forklift for work and currently have my CDLA license and dental assisting certification. I'm no celebrity, but I am loved by many in my community and there are many that I love and I'm thankful for the morning of August 20th August 16th, 2025 would quickly become unforgettable, especially because my future father in law, Francisco Longoria, wanted me to run an errand with him and his son Jonathan when all I really wanted to do was just sleep in. We took Jonathan's truck with him sitting in the passenger seat, Francisco driving and me sitting behind Francisco when we were just two minutes away from home at 8:49am, two unmarked trucks suddenly boxed in our car. I had been looking down at my phone, but when our car abruptly stopped I looked up thinking we must be at a red light or in a traffic jam. But to my surprise I was instead met with four with four men in face mask, sunglasses and baseball caps and guns drawn, pointing straight at us, walking towards our car. These four men then tried forcing their way into our car by pulling on the handles, pounding on the windows and yelling at us to roll down the windows, all while failing to answer our repeated requests for their identification and what they wanted. I did not know who these men were. They were refusing to identify themselves. And the only thing I felt I could do, I could control, was capturing this event by recording it on my cell phone. There were two men on either side of the car and they were not wearing any uniform. I cannot tell who these men surrounding our car with guns were. We again asked them to show identification and why they were approaching us with so much aggression. Only seconds after they started pounding on the windows, one of the men broke the driver's side window, punched Francisco in the face and began reaching into the car. At the same time, a man on the other side of the car broke the passenger window where Jonathan was sitting and began reaching into the vehicle. They shattered the windows and in that moment, the world, the whole world felt like it was the size of the inside of our pickup and we were sitting in harm's way with nothing to do but record the horrifying experience. Terrified for our lives. Francisco brave. Excuse me. Francisco bravely drove through the straight through the only open pathway down the street, hoping to be driving towards safety when we were instead met with gunfire after we had passed the men. One of the four men attempted to murder us after we passed by as he fired and made contact with the passenger side of our car multiple times. I will never forget the fear and having to quickly duck my head as the shots were fired at the car. Any one of those bullets could have killed me or two people that I love. We narrowly escaped as pieces of glass fell on our heads as we drove down the bumpy road. Three minutes changed our lives forever. The incident began at 8:49am and we were home by 8:52am we left home that morning with the truck in good condition, but we returned home with that. Excuse me, I'm sorry. Was I. We were in. Sorry I lost myself here. Yes. We were home by 8:52am left that morning with the truck in good condition. But we returned home with a truck that had two shattered windows and bullet holes. We then called 911 to report that four men who were hiding their identity assaulted and shot at us. By 9am a police helicopter was flying over our property. Next thing we know, local officers showed up at our home, handcuffed. Francisco put him in the officer's car and began individually questioning us. The officers then allowed the same four men who had just attacked us to come to our home. Those four men were asked to identify who they were looking for but they had zero idea as to who they were even targeting, pointing to me as the driver. These masked men had just shot at us and they were now in our home treating us as the people who had done something wrong. The man who shot at us went to my future brother in law, asked him questions about the video we took of their attack and lied saying those were not shots. When the officers left our home almost three hours later, we were told that the FBI would continue the investigation. However, almost immediately after the officers left our home, two men walked out up to our gate and told us to let them in. We could immediately tell this was not the FBI but instead ICE and HSI agents. The HSI agent then said is he here? But they never clarified who he was. I said we were told the FBI would be coming and would be waiting for them to arrive. The HSI agent looked at me and said for all intents and purposes, we are the FBI. As time passed, more and more eyes and HSI agents arrived in unmarked vehicles with no license plates. They had gear on and walked around our home with submachine guns, assault rifles and holstered pistols, making sure to keep their hands on their weapons for fast drawing. The agents blocked every exit out of our home and shut the entire block of our neighborhood. More than 20 HSI, ICE agents and more than 30 police officers were banishing weapons ranging from paintball guns to a manned drone, flying and mapping out the layout of our home. Our home that used to be our safe place now being used as a weapon against us to trap us and take advantage of our surroundings. Once the agents finish asking us questions and watching our recordings of the terrifying event, they left. But we no longer felt safe. We didn't feel like we could leave our home or operate normally in the world. How do you move on from knowing someone tried to kill you and people you love for no reason? Then just two weeks later, on August 28, 2025, I was sleeping on the couch when I was woken up at 4am by horrified family members telling me that men were entering our property through our gate and surrounding our entire home. These men had weapons, were wearing night vision goggles and utilizing the bright green laser beam from their assault rifles. An armored truck was in front of our house and one of the men used a megaphone to announce we needed to come outside of our home with our Hands up. Our hearts were racing, and we tried getting everyone in the house awake since it was the middle of the night. Again, we were placed in a position of pure terror and did not know what to do. We called our lawyers because we did not understand what was happening. But then the men breached our front doors by breaking the locks and yelling that we needed to come out of the house with our hands up. The agents pointed the bright lasers attached to their rifles at each of us inside the home. They even pointed their weapon at my fiance, who was pregnant at the time. We kept telling them she was pregnant and we would comply. I was surrounded and trapped in a room full of the ones I love and fearing for every single one of our lives. We kept asking for a warrant, and eventually they showed one, and we listened to their commands. Francisco was in his sleeping attire, and we begged them to allow us to give him a shirt and socks since it was cold outside and we did not know where they were taking him or what they would do to him. We then watched as they took him away, breaking our hearts. Eventually, Francisco went in front of a federal judge who validated that the incident was scary to watch from the recording inside our vehicle. Despite the lies and misinformation given by the agents, the judge believed our truth, and eventually the federal charges were dismissed. However, Francisco was taken to immigration custody and held for three months, where he was held for months, where he had to endure horrible conditions. Months later, Francisco was released on bond and able to witness the birth of his first grandchild. My daughter. Yet our fight for justice is not over. We will carry this incident with us forever. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal and Senator Garcia. Thank you very much, Mr. Escohn.

[Host Nicole]

Whatever else happens from this day forward, in the effort to cover and hold accountable Donald Trump and his cabinet, the individuals who testified before today gave us something we've never had before. Firsthand witness accounts of, well, let's quote them, of an attempt to, quote, be executed by my own government. The testimony came from Miramar Martinez or by Alia Rahman, who gave us our first testimony of how detainees inside the Whipple Building are described. Quote, they're bringing in bodies. Quote, there's a body in there already. We need another room for this body. Martin Daniel Rascon, the last individual testifying there, describing the scene. Weapons and armored trucks outside his house. Night vision goggles, guns pointed at them. Quote, pure terror for his family, all of them US Citizens. So if you think this story is a story about something happening far away, or if you think that what ICE is Doing doesn't affect you or couldn't affect you. If you think you can drive into an intersection as Aaliyah did and was, quote, cut out of her car with a knife thrown onto her face, you're wrong. Stories about all of us. All this is being done in our name to other American citizens. Joining our coverage, former assistant special agent in charge of the FBI and national security and intelligence analyst Michael Feinberg's here. He's also a fellow at Lawfare. Also joining us, former DHS chief of staff during Donald Trump's first term as president. Miles Taylor's here and immigration correspondent for npr. Jasmine Gard is here. She is just back from reporting on the ground in Minneapolis. We're also joined by Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro of Texas. Congressman, I want to start with you. You're here to talk about efforts to return Liam Ramos to his family, a five year old boy used as bait to try to entrap his mother who was inside his house. A good news story in the sea of so much horror.

[Political Commentator]

Yeah, it was wonderful to be able to take he and his father back to Minnesota from rural Texas, from Dilley, Texas. But his story is just one of hundreds of children who are in detention right now, including a two month old baby who's been there for several days and kids of all ages who are suffering incredible trauma. And the testimony that we just heard talks about the brutality, the physical brutality that we're seeing from ICE on the streets. But there is also a physical and psychological brutality going on inside detention centers, leaving scars for kids that will last them a lifetime.

[Host Nicole]

The judge was scathing in his rebuke of the seizing of Liam Ramos and his father. He was also able to tell a story about the traumatic damage that ICE is doing to children. What is your sense of why that damage is seen so clearly by this judge in this case hasn't been able to stop the practice of detaining children and keeping them in these conditions.

[Political Commentator]

I think that Donald Trump and Stephen Miller and others in the administration are determined to carry out this very brutal, often unconstitutional deportation, mass deportation machine. And for the American people, they are seeing what's going on in the streets. And I think that with the murder of Alex Preddy, for example, it shocked the conscience. And the story of Liam Ramos also shocked the conscience and captured the attention of the country and the world about what's going on. But yeah, I mean, there are more people out there who are suffering. And those of us that believe this is wrong, whether you're a Republican or Democrat, need to continue to fight this system right now.

[Host Nicole]

I asked this question the day that Renee Nicole Goode was killed. If this is how American citizens are being treated in broad daylight with dozens, sometimes hundreds of people watching, what is your best answer to how asylum seekers and immigrants and migrants are being treated without cameras and without accountability and without scrutiny inside detention centers?

[Political Commentator]

I think that there are people that are being brutalized, that are being physically hurt and also psychologically damaged. It is a very vicious system that is set up right now and that they're carrying out. And I do think that we're going to look back upon this time as a shameful period in American history where we let our guard down in terms of protecting people's constitutional and human rights.

[Host Nicole]

Congressman Joaquin Castro, thank you for the work that you did with your colleagues to bring Liam Ramos back. As we said at the top, sort of a rare good news, good guys winning story. Thank you for your role in that, for joining us to talk about it.

[Moderator]

Thank you.

[Host Nicole]

Miles Taylor, I was going to ask you what this agency was that showed up at Martin Daniel Rascon's house. Hsi, Homeland Security investigators. Why would all those units have been at his home?

[Commercial Announcer]

It's a great question, Nicole. It's a question we're going to be asking is DHS has now taken this investigative agency within ice, Homeland Security Investigations, hsi, and turned it into another arm of the administration's oppression. In fact, I will add a data point in here, Nicole. A lot of people didn't notice this, but in the reporting about the arrest of reporter Don Lemon, it wasn't just the FBI that was there. It was hsi. What on earth is an investigative agency that's supposed to be focused on foreign threats doing, helping to arrest American journalists? And you and I talked about this a little bit the other day. I think you can say in all seriousness that DHS is now spending more time, more effort and more money undermining US Homeland Security than protecting it. And the trust, of course, because of all of these incidents, has evaporated in the agency and for good reason. They have destroyed the reputation, whatever was left of it, not just of the agency, ice, but of the whole of the department. And as you and I talked about before, I think for that reason, it can no longer exist, not in this form, not without accountability, not without measures to prevent them from acting like a lawless secret police. So I think, Nicole, the only silver lining here is that is now a realization that's no longer a fringe realization in American politics. That's a mainstream position. It's a mainstream position now that because of this, we have got to deconstruct that department and reconstruct it. It's gotten that bad. And I can't listen to testimony like you played at the top of the show and think there's any other path.

[Host Nicole]

Yeah. I mean, an American citizen testifying to this Michael Feinberg, quote, my own government tried to execute me. She was shot five times. She described her injuries. She described her, quote, disfigurement. She described how even with all of that trauma, physical and mental, she knows that Alex Preddy and Renee Nicole Goode would trade places to be back with their loved ones. We have a body count in terms of the number of American citizens who have paid with their lives for exercising their First Amendment rights.

[Political Commentator]

Yeah. The thing that struck me the most about the testimony which we just heard is that those victims of ICE were able to understand and articulate a greater understanding of the ideals and promises upon which this country was founded than I've ever heard come out of Kristi Noem's mouth or out of Stephen Miller's mouth. I am as resolutely pro law enforcement as they come. I carried a badge and a gun for most of my adult career. But I want to echo what Miles said as he was speaking. We have gotten to the point where the rot at DHS is so pervasive and so deep into the structure of the organization that I think we need to have a very serious, very sober conversation as a nation about how in the long term, we dismantle this department. Because what they are doing is nothing that I or any of my former colleagues would recognize as law enforcement. What they are doing is simply meting out state sanctioned barbarism and cruelty.

[Host Nicole]

Jasmine. To underscore that point here is Hennepin County Sheriff Dewana Witt. We're going to look for that. But what she said in a. In a new interview is, quote, we are traumatizing kids. We are robbing them of their futures. They should not be having the worries of adults at their young age. It's going to have an everlasting impact on them. Is the federal government listening? Are they hearing you when you say our children are being robbed of their futures? Our communities are living in fear. They are. I haven't seen any responses saying anything other than, this is your fault. You know, blue cities, blue states, this is your fault. No, it's everybody's fault. If you're an adult and if you're in a position of power, it's your fault. Because things could have could be done. That is the Henneman County Sheriff's assessment. So this idea that law enforcement is on one side, that is not true. ICE has divided law enforcement, and by and large, they are lining up with people who think this is no way to operate.

[Journalist Jasmine Gard]

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. As I was hearing these testimonies, I was thinking about how a couple of weeks ago when I headed over to Minneapolis, I had a friend text me and say, be really careful out there. You've become a war correspondent now. And I have covered civil conflicts. I've gone to war zones. My own parents grew up in a very brutal dictatorship. And hearing these testimonies, it was akin to places that I've been in. People being dragged out of their cars, people not understanding what's happening, talk of bodies. Something that I kept thinking about, which you referenced, is what happens when the cameras aren't on. And as we know, Kristi Noem has said that now agents are gonna be wearing body cams. But I don't think that addresses the issue of total impunity. How many videos do we have? How many shots do we have of Alex Preddy bystander videos? How many accounts Americans have been seeing these videos of complete brutality for the last year? How many times has this appeared on your social media feed? You know, how many times do we have to look, watch Alex Prady being shot from different camera angles by bystanders before it's okay to believe our eyes?

[Host Nicole]

Jasmine, what was your level of feeling safe being there, as you said, with a friend, putting this in your head, that it was akin to going to a war zone?

[Journalist Jasmine Gard]

Well, I have to apologize for my voice. I've been running around in freezing temperatures, and I've been tear gassed twice. I think that, you know, there was an understanding that this was escalating. The morning that we found out Alex Preddy got killed, I mean, it was just this feeling of dread of how. How did this happen again? And, you know, there was just a sense among my colleagues and I that, you know, this was suddenly a very dangerous assignment.

[Political Commentator]

Yeah.

[Journalist Jasmine Gard]

Very dangerous assignment.

[Host Nicole]

I'm so grateful to all of you. I'm going to ask all of you to stay with me. I have to sneak in a break, but I want us to listen together to the brothers of Renee Nicole Good, who also testified before we came on the air. Renee Nicole Good, of course, was the first ICE watcher American citizen who was shot and killed. It happened on January 7th by an ICE agent. Her brother's testified not just about the loss that their family now lives with, but their message for Americans. We'll bring that to you next.

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[Host Nicole]

One of the families at the center of this ongoing American tragedy was also on Capitol Hill today testifying the brothers of Renee, Nicole Goode, Luke and Brent Ganger. They spoke about their sister and their family in the wake of Renee's killing. Watch.

[Moderator]

The deep distress our family feels because of Nay's losses in such a violent and unnecessary way is complicated by feelings of disbelief, distress and desperation for change. In the last few weeks, our family took some consolation thinking that perhaps Nay's death would bring about change in our country. And it has not. The completely surreal scenes taking place on the streets of Minneapolis are beyond explanation. This is not just a bad day or a rough week or isolated incidents. These encounters with federal agents are changing the community and changing many lives, including ours, forever. And I still don't know how to explain to my 4 year old what these agents are doing when we pass by. Our family is deeply grateful for the outpouring of love and support from the community in Minneapolis and from people across the country and around the world. The prayers and words of support have truly brought us comfort. And it is meaningful that these sentiments have come from people of all colors, faiths and ideals. That is a perfect reflection of Renee, who carried peace, patience, and love for others wherever she went. When I think of Renee, I think of dandelions in sunlight. Dandelions don't ask permission to grow. They push through cracks in the sidewalk, through hard soil, through places where you don't expect beauty. And suddenly, there they are, bright, alive, unapologetically hopeful. That was Renee in sunlight. Warm, steady, life giving. Because when she walked in a room, things felt lighter, even on cloudy days. Renee had a way of showing up in the world that made you believe things were going to be okay. Not because she ignored the hardship, but because she chose optimism anyway. She chose to look for what was good, what was possible, and what was worth loving. Nene loved fiercely, openly, and without hesitation.

[Host Nicole]

The panel's back with me. Michael, I want to come back to something you just said. You carried a badge and a gun most of your adult life. I keep thinking about what's being done in our name as Americans, what's being done as a citizen, what's being done as a voter. Right. And I didn't vote for Donald Trump. But what is normal is that the person that prevails understands that the mission is to be the leader of the whole country. And then at the FBI, it's never really thought of in terms of anything political. But the people that work there work there through Democratic and Republican administrations. Many of them spend their whole careers there. They could go make loads of money. They choose a different life. They choose to carry a badge and a gun. Donald Trump has made such extraordinary progress at destroying all of that. Right. The idea that public servants and leaders represent every last one of them. He said at Charlie Kirk's memorial about his political opponents, quote, I hate all of them, that the FBI is made up of the best of the best, the best people at protecting us from child sex traffickers, from international cartels, from cyber attacks, from China, from Russia, from Iran. That wasn't the mission. Right? The people now who carry badges and guns are, in the words of one of their victims, quote, the government there to, quote, execute me. What does it mean in America to work for the federal government and carry a badge and a gun? Today.

[Political Commentator]

The first week I was at the FBI Academy, in one of my classes, we were given an essay, and it was by somebody who had taught at Quantico. And the essay was sort of deep exegesis of our oath of office. And there was an entire section delineating and explaining and elaborating upon why the oath is to the Constitution and not to an individual. And it went through a couple of historical analogies from other countries. You can probably guess which ones and which time periods. But that point was really driven home to us. We're not there because we're political officers supporting a president. We are there because, to use the cliche, we are a thin blue line existing between citizens and those who would do them harm somewhere along the way. And I don't know if it's some twisted perversion of the unitary executive theory or too many people have gotten enamored of wearing the Punisher insignia or whatever, but somewhere along the line, it became acceptable to argue that an organization like the FBI should be dedicated towards carrying out the president's policies. Now, certainly the president can dictate what violations the FBI should focus on. I don't know anybody who would disagree with that. Some administrations cover down on white collar crime, others violent, others counterterrorism. But the notion that a deputy chief of staff like Stephen Miller should be dictating the priorities of the nation's law enforcement agencies in an effort to create some bastardized ethnostate that they've dreamed up in some sick fantasia is so far beyond the pale of everything America has always stood for and what apolitical civil servants are supposed to do that there are times it is difficult for me to comprehend and acknowledge that this is our reality now. And I don't know where we go from here if and when we get a chance to rebuild trust in institutions.

[Host Nicole]

Yeah, look, I think that's so important and I have to get a break, but I mean, Myles, when we come back, I want us to take what Luke and Brent Ganger said to heart. He said he hoped that his daughter's. His sister's death would have brought about change, but, quote, it has not. It has not. And I sort of want us to sit with that on the other side of a break. We'll all be right back.

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[Political Commentator]

I want to remind the American public of Stephen Miller. There is probably no single person in this government has done more damage than more damage and more harm to people across this country, immigrants and U.S. citizens and the terror that is happening across this country than this man right here. And it's our job as a House, a Senate, and a united Congress to.

[Commercial Announcer]

Hold him responsible for the crimes that.

[Political Commentator]

Are happening to United States citizens as a country. We have to do better.

[Host Nicole]

We're all back. Miles Taylor, you worked with that individual Stephen Miller. Your thoughts?

[Commercial Announcer]

Well, look, I mean, I think one of the biggest indicators, Nicole, of how bad it's gotten is that accountability is completely gone from the federal government. I mean, you asked before the break whether Renee Nicole Good's death had brought about any change. And here's one thing I wanted to point out is Mary Moriarty, who's the district attorney in Minneapolis, said last night that they're close to a decision on whether to charge federal officers in in Renee Nicole Goode's death and Alex Preddy's cases. They're getting close to a decision there. That's the good news, that they're moving toward accountability. The bad news is that local prosecutors are having to do this in the first place. And she announced that last week that they've come together to launch this thing called federaloverreach.org they were on Ms. Now last night talking about it, and they're holding an emergency meeting this week in D.C. to talk about how to best prosecute lawbreaking federal agents. And I want you to think about that, Nicole, because what this says is that the federal government, because of people like Stephen Miller, is no longer even Policing its own people. It's literally hiding law breaking agents from public accountability. It's excusing it. It's saying that they have absolute immunity and that Americans will never know their names. That's what Greg Bavino said. Remember that? After Alex Preddy, he said, you'll never know the names of those agents. And so now local prosecutors are being forced to try to bring cases against the federal government just to protect the rights of their citizens. That's like if after 9, 11, the US military refused to show up and we had to send local cops into Afghanistan to get bin Laden. They are not doing anything to hold their people accountable. And so I'm awed at the courage of these local prosecutors standing up, but I'm infuriated that the federal government is doing nothing.

[Host Nicole]

Jasmine, what were the circumstances in which you were tear gassed twice?

[Journalist Jasmine Gard]

I mean, I think this is really interesting. I think someone used the word bizarre. Unreal. What happened was I was at protest. I was at protests that were overwhelmingly peaceful. People marching, people had signs. People were saying mean things and yelling and singing. And on both occasions, we were met with an amount of force that felt ludicrous. You know, on both occasions, there was tear gas and these kind of like pepper balls and flash grenades. And the second one was right after Alex Freddy died. It was Saturday morning. I went to the site with some of my colleagues, and people were angry. People were not happy. They were standing around and they were yelling things and they had banners. But the level of force and of repression this was met with, I mean, it was pretty extraordinary.

[Host Nicole]

Jasmine, do you feel any differently about being on the ground after the arrest of Don Lemon and other journalists who were covering the church protest?

[Journalist Jasmine Gard]

I feel that it's more important than ever, and I think it's more important than ever. That much like I've been telling listeners and readers to trust their eyes, I think it's also important to pick wisely whose eyes you trust.

[Host Nicole]

Wow, Michael. I mean, this really is a moment where people are looking for information they can see with their own eyes. And it is also, in parallel, a moment where Donald Trump, for some reason, as his popularity plunges, feels emboldened enough to do all of this in broad daylight. What does that say to you, Michael? Froze on us. Are you there?

[Political Commentator]

Nice moment. At which.

[Host Nicole]

I think we're gonna. There he is. Can you hear us? Yeah, I think you're still glitchy, Miles. I'll give that one to you.

[Commercial Announcer]

But look, I think he hasn't learned his lesson, Nicole. I mean, he has not learned the lesson that the American people are infuriated by all of this. But you know what I find really strange, Nicole? There are folks that Donald Trump listens to. He can't stand it that celebrities are no longer supporting them. And I got that message after the Grammys on Sunday. I didn't watch the Grammys, but Donald Trump was watching the Grammys. He didn't like that people wore ice out pins. He didn't like that Trevor Noah said things about him. And so I would actually say anyone who's ever rolled their eyes at the idea that celebrity in this country can be used as a tool of political resistance is wrong. Or at least they don't know Donald Trump. And I will say those things are getting under his skin. And the message is breaking through throughout the mainstream, in the public and in grass top circles. And I think that is starting to show the President Trump that his support is weakening. But unfortunately, what we've learned, Nicole, is when he feels like he's losing and he's backed into a corner, he does crazier and crazier things. It happens every single time. And I think everything we've seen with the deployment of ice is an example of that in this country.

[Host Nicole]

Michael, you back?

[Political Commentator]

I am, yes.

[Host Nicole]

You get the last word.

[Political Commentator]

You know, there is a famous Teddy Roosevelt speech called the man in the arena. John McCain was very fond of quoting it from time to time. And now is the time that every American, regardless of their political leanings, regardless of whom they may have voted for in past elections, needs to become that person. It's not an exaggeration to say that our rights and our liberties are very much at risk. Because anybody who's read a history book knows that when this administration is done with those of Hispanic descent, they're going to move on to another group. And it's time for us to all stand up and resolutely shout that it is not acceptable. So, you know, to end on an uncharacteristic bright note. I'm heartened and emboldened by what I see in Minnesota. The citizens of Minneapolis are doing exactly what American citizens have done since the revolution when their rights and their way of life is threatened. So let's stick with them in solidarity. And when it comes to our own cities, let's do our best to emulate them.

[Host Nicole]

I love that it fell to you today to be my sunshine. Michael Feinberg, Miles Taylor, Jasmine Guard. Thank you all, really, from the bottom of my heart. We didn't know what we were going to be covering because it happened while we were all already here. But I'm so lucky that it was the three of you. Thank you so much. After the break, we'll switch gears a bit. As Donald Trump, as Miles indicated, escalates, escalates, escalates. His rhetoric ahead of the midterms, pushing for Republicans to, quote, take over our elections. We'll tell you about that next.

[Journalist Jasmine Gard]

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