Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House

Episode: "Jack doesn’t want to go in the box"
Date: October 23, 2025
Host: Nicolle Wallace with guests Glenn Thrush, Mark Harris, Alex Wagner, Ken Delaney, John Heilemann

Episode Overview

This episode dives into two pivotal fronts of American political life under Donald Trump’s second administration:

1. The escalating political and legal battle around Special Counsel Jack Smith—his investigations into Donald Trump, Republican attempts to discredit and punish him, and his offer to testify publicly.
2. The shocking and symbolic demolition of the East Wing of the White House, replaced by a massive ballroom, which the panel sees as emblematic of Trump's disregard for democratic norms and American history.

The roundtable of journalists and former investigators discusses the weaponization of the Justice Department, challenges to the rule of law, and the rapid reshaping of American institutions—both physically and institutionally—by the Trump administration.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jack Smith Offers Public Testimony (01:01–12:00)

• Breaking News: Nicolle Wallace reports that Jack Smith has offered to testify in public before Congress about his investigation into Trump’s classified documents handling and efforts to overturn the 2020 election. He seeks DOJ assurances he won’t be punished for speaking.

• Reason for Public Hearing: Smith’s team states, “Given the many mischaracterizations… Mr. Smith respectfully requests the opportunity to testify in open hearings…” (01:36)

• Republican Accusations: Republicans allege Smith unlawfully tapped Congressional phone records relating to January 6. Smith counters: The toll data collection was “narrowly tailored… from Jan 4-7, 2021” (02:36), focusing only on verifying reports that Trump and his surrogates contacted senators to delay election certification.

• Smith’s Evolution: Panelists note that Smith, typically a “do your talking in the courtroom” prosecutor in the Mueller mold, is recognizing that “we communicate differently now” (Jack Smith, 08:47–10:13) and must counteract widespread public misinformation.

  “He does not want to give Jim Jordan and the House Republicans the opportunity to distort what he says or even to characterize what he says.” —Mark Harris (06:24)
  “If he does not speak out and represent himself, he is going to be in a considerable amount of trouble.” —Mark Harris (07:40)

Notable Quote:

“Trying to stop the democratic process... 1,500 [participants] in January of this year were pardoned by the president because they committed their crimes in his name and in his interest.”
– Jack Smith, reflecting on January 6 and Trump pardons (04:37)

Timestamps:

• Smith's public statement on pardons: [04:37]
• Smith on DOJ tradition of silence: [08:47–10:13]

2. The Rule of Law and Trump’s Retribution (11:05–22:51)

• Old vs. New Approach: There’s debate among former federal prosecutors about whether the DOJ must now confront misinformation and efforts to weaponize justice.

  “Former prosecutors... are revisiting it and thinking we do need to get the story out.” —Glenn Thrush (11:05)

• Why Subpoena Toll Records?: Glenn Thrush explains it would have been “malpractice” not to track phone calls between the Trump White House and Congress on January 6—“it’s just toll records, date, time, and duration, not content” (13:00).

• Hostility and Purges: Panelists describe a climate where Trump lists enemies, DOJ staff are purged or fired if not compliant, and even basic fact-finding is criminalized.

  “Trump doesn’t give people any choice... [Cash Patel, FBI director]... created an enemies list... to go after political opponents...” —Mark Harris (19:28)

• Speaking Out as Self-Defense:

  “In another decade, they didn’t want to be the story. But if you are really interested in preserving the institution you’re a part of, you have to speak out. That is both tragedy and reality under Trump.” —Alex Wagner (16:48)

Notable Quote:

“Teddy Roosevelt once said, no man is above the law, and no man is below it... When we say we have no kings in this country, that’s what we’re talking about.”
– Jack Smith (18:30)

3. Political Weaponization of the Justice Department (25:30–32:19)

• Adam Schiff Investigation: Nicolle Wallace and Ken Delaney reveal that federal prosecutors again found weak evidence in Trump’s bid to indict Senator Adam Schiff. DOJ higher-ups are frustrated as career prosecutors resist partisan pressure.

  • U.S. Attorney Kelly Hayes told her superiors the case was too weak; career prosecutors expect possible termination for defying expectations (27:08–30:30).

  “The point is just to have it out there in the ether... saying ‘potential indictment’ and ‘Adam Schiff’ over and over...” —Alex Wagner (30:40)

• Pattern of Firings: Previous prosecutors who resisted weak or politicized cases against Tish James and Jim Comey were ousted, leading to a “gutting, a hollowing out of really essential offices” (30:40).

Timestamps:

• Delaney on Adam Schiff case: [27:08–29:07]
• DOJ purges: [29:30–31:17]

4. Demolition of the East Wing: Metaphor for Institutional Destruction (01:01, 32:00–46:09)

• White House Demolition: The East Wing has been torn down to make way for a 90,000 square foot ballroom, larger than the residence itself.

  • “The erasure of our history is now unmasked and very much the central mission of Trump’s second term.” —Nicole Wallace (36:22)
  • Only 24% of Americans (and 16% of independents) approve of the demolition (34:54).

• Not His House:

  “It’s not his house... None of this, including neither one of his presidential terms, are about him. You are there to serve the country. The state is not me.” —John Heilemann (36:22)

• Autocratic Aesthetics and Warnings

  • The planned ballroom is compared to those of Russian oligarchs or autocrats, laden with gold, symbolizing personal aggrandizement over public service.
  • Alex Wagner: “To unwind the damage... it’s going to take time... This is systematic destruction that is not easily resurrected... People need to buckle up and dig in for the long haul because that is what it is going to take to preserve democracy.” (41:33)

Timestamps:

• Visual of demolished East Wing: [32:00]
• Ballroom as metaphor and scale comparison: [40:59–43:24]

Notable Quotes

• Jack Smith ([18:30]):
  “No man is above the law and no man is below it... When we say we have no kings in this country, that’s what we’re talking about.”

• Mark Harris ([19:28]):
  “Trump doesn’t give people any choice. He is pursuing a campaign of vengeance against people...”

• John Heilemann ([36:22]):
  “It’s not his house... The state is not me. That’s the fundamental thing wrong with Trump’s attitude towards governance.”

• Alex Wagner ([41:33]):
  “This is systematic destruction... People need to buckle up and dig in for the long haul because that is what it will take to preserve democracy.”

Memorable Moments

• "Jack doesn’t want to go in the box"
  Mark Harris, invoking his tabloid past, sums up Smith’s cautious but defiant stance:
  “Jack doesn’t want to go in the box.” (06:10)

• Public Testimony Gambit
  The panel recognizes Smith’s offer to appear in public as a calculated move to avoid GOP-controlled misrepresentation.

• Symbolism of the East Wing Demolition
  The panel uses the destruction as a metaphor for the systematic unraveling of institutions.

Major Segments (with Timestamps)

| Segment | Time | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Jack Smith's public testimony offer & statement on pardons | 01:01–06:10 | | Panel reflects on Smith's evolving public posture, DOJ investigative tradition | 06:10–12:38 | | Context of January 6th, use of phone records, Giuliani’s role | 12:38–14:37 | | Trump’s effect on DOJ, targeting of perceived enemies, staff purges | 14:37–22:51 | | Breaking: Prosecutors resist weak case against Adam Schiff | 25:30–30:30 | | The symbolism of demolishing the East Wing, panel reactions | 32:00–39:09 | | Heilemann's insight: “It's not his house” | 36:22–39:09 | | Ballroom scale, autocratic design, and wounds to democracy, long-term perspective | 40:59–46:09 |

Conclusion

This episode delivers a sobering but incisive analysis of the double-pronged threat facing American democracy: the overt destruction and personal repurposing of its physical symbols, and the more insidious corrosion of the institutions and rules that undergird justice and accountability. Nicolle Wallace and her guests consistently warn that while today’s news may seem outrageous, its long-tail consequences for democracy, justice, and national identity will require generational vigilance and restoration.

This summary captures the key events, attitudes, and anxieties of a political era defined by unprecedented executive action and institutional fragility.