Deadline: White House – “Legally Incomprehensible”

Date: October 24, 2025
Host: Alicia Menendez (in for Nicolle Wallace), MSNBC
Guests: Tom Nichols (The Atlantic), Helene Cooper (NYT), Ben Rhodes (MSNBC / former Obama Deputy NSA), Paul Rykoff (Independent Americans podcast)

Episode Overview

This episode addresses the Trump administration’s escalating military interventions in the Caribbean and Venezuela, a corresponding lack of legal or congressional justification for these actions, and an alarming erosion of press and congressional oversight at the Pentagon. The conversation pivots between sharp legal critique, historical context, and the personal impacts for military families, with significant reflections on information control and American democracy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Escalation of U.S. Military Operations in the Caribbean & Venezuela

• The Trump administration has authorized ten kinetic strikes on alleged drug-smuggling boats, killing at least 43 people (though unconfirmed). (03:06)
• The USS Gerald R. Ford, a top aircraft carrier, is being redeployed from the Mediterranean to the Caribbean, signaling possible expansion of airstrikes from maritime to land targets, notably Venezuela. (01:38)
• President Trump is publicly considering land strikes, with no commitment to seek congressional authorization. (03:06)

Notable Quote

“The land is going to be next and we may go to the Senate, we may go to the, you know, Congress and tell them about it, but I can't imagine they'd have any problem with it.” — Donald Trump, (03:06)

2. Lack of Legal Justification & Congressional Oversight

• Administration officials cite drug overdose deaths and the President’s Commander-in-Chief powers, but have offered no substantive legal answers in briefings—even behind closed doors. (03:24)

Congress’s Passivity

• The Supreme Court has recently extended a wide degree of immunity to the President—but not to military officials potentially carrying out unlawful orders, heightening anxiety within the Pentagon. (04:54, 07:37)
• There is growing, but still tepid, Republican dissent (e.g. Sens. Rand Paul and Lisa Murkowski). (04:54)

Notable Quotes

“We have not gotten any kind of congressional authorization for this...This has left many people at the Pentagon very concerned.” — Helene Cooper (04:54)
“You are starting to see a little bit more of [questioning]...But we have yet to see any real, you know, real accountability or any explanation.” — Helene Cooper (04:54)

3. Military, Diplomatic & Legal Incoherence

• Tom Nichols: The redeployment of the carrier away from Europe, amid an ongoing war affecting NATO allies, is “militarily incomprehensible.” (09:21)
• Ben Rhodes: The legal justifications have shifted incoherently—from “self-defense” to “war with drug cartels” to vague assertions of executive authority with no real rationale. (10:10)
• Potential War Crimes: There is grave concern that strikes on alleged drug runners, absent due process, could constitute war crimes under U.S. and international law. (15:30)

Notable Quotes

“It’s militarily incomprehensible...He’d rather pick a fight in Latin America than protect our NATO allies.” — Tom Nichols (09:21) “There’s just no legal basis for this. And if they're falling all the way back on, well, he’s commander in chief, can do whatever he wants, that tells you that there's no rationale.” — Ben Rhodes (10:41)

4. Normalization of Executive Overreach & the “Private Army”

• The panel warns of a dangerous trend: Trump’s use of the military with minimal oversight, normalizing the idea that the U.S. military is at his personal disposal.
• There’s fear this can lay groundwork for domestic military use against American protesters, especially with the administration’s rhetoric conflating protest with terrorism. (15:58, 17:20)

Notable Quotes

“The American President has said, I can point the US Military anywhere I want and kill anyone I want. That is going to become a principle in the domestic use of the military.” — Tom Nichols (15:58) “They have blended the rhetoric… calling the Democratic Party a terrorist organization. They're creating one big other, one big enemy: the enemy within, the enemy without, terrorists and the radical left.” — Ben Rhodes (18:03)

5. Information Control: Press and Congressional Lock-Out at the Pentagon

• Recent Press Restrictions: The Pentagon, under Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, is restricting access to the building and favoring right-wing outlets willing to accept new rules, excluding longtime mainstream and independent journalists. (22:48)
• Impact: This limits transparency and undermines democratic oversight, especially with large military deployments and potential for U.S. casualties. (24:53, 29:29)

Notable Quotes

“It just means…another roadblock between what officials are doing and the American people on whose behalf they are conducting their business.” — Helene Cooper (24:53) “This is actually the most serious thing happening in America. If the President wants to do whatever he wants with the most powerful military in the world, this is what you do. You remove anyone who asks hard questions. You remove anyone who provides oversight. You remove congressional access. This is on plan. They're ahead of plan.” — Paul Rykoff (31:40)

• Media Pageantry: Administration is engineering “pageantry”—briefings dominated by friendly questioning, legitimizing official narratives and further insulating decisions from scrutiny. (29:29, 31:14)

Notable Quotes

“A lot of Americans are going to see that…To us, it may look like North Korea and may look ridiculous, but they are controlling the pageantry. There's an awesome amount of power to the backdrop of the Pentagon.” — Ben Rhodes (29:29)

6. Personal Stakes for Military Families

• Military families are left in the dark as their loved ones are deployed with no public explanation of the mission’s objectives or risks. (14:34)

Notable Quotes

“You need to tell the families of American troops why they might die… There is a chance every time you deploy American troops, our people might die. And what are they dying for?” — Paul Rykoff (14:27)

Memorable Moments & Sharp Takedowns

• Summary of Administration Logic by Ben Rhodes (10:41):
  “If you’re saying that they’re drug dealers so we can kill them, that’s like saying you can just go and shoot somebody on the street corner selling drugs. Right?”
• Press Gaggle as SNL Skit by Tom Nichols (27:30):
  “Every one of these press conferences becomes a Saturday Night Live cold open…This whole thing is lunacy.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Dispatch of Aircraft Carrier, Escalation Context: 01:38 – 04:54
• Legal Rationale/Trump Administration’s Justification: 03:06, 03:24, 10:10 – 12:53
• Pentagon Anxieties & Officer Concerns: 04:54 – 08:04
• Discussion of War Crimes Potential: 15:30 – 15:58
• Congressional/Civilian Oversight Breakdown: 24:53 – 31:40

Episode Close: The Stakes Laid Bare

Paul Rykoff delivers a searing summary: (31:40)

“Imagine how much farther they’d be on their plan if Hegseth wasn’t screwing up all the time. But this has always been part of it—to remove the Pentagon press corps and attack them and diminish them and delegitimize them and replace them… So not only are they controlling access here, when caskets come home with dead Americans in them, it will be the MyPillow Guys TV network covering it. That’s how serious this is.”

Takeaways

This episode bluntly warns of how unchecked executive military power, normalized information control, and degraded legal accountability threaten both U.S. foreign policy and the democratic system itself. With military actions expanding under tenuous legal pretexts and increasingly opaque decision-making, the episode issues a clarion call for renewed oversight:

“Nothing is stopping him. And nothing has stopped him so far.” — Paul Rykoff (13:25)

For listeners and policymakers alike, the warning is clear: Democratic institutions, from Congress to the free press, are being sidelined at a moment of maximum peril.