“MAGA buckles under the weight of infighting”

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "MAGA Buckles Under the Weight of Infighting"

Deadline: White House with Nicolle Wallace, MS NOW
Date: March 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the growing fractures and infighting within Donald Trump’s MAGA coalition amid deepening political, economic, and social turmoil. Host Nicolle Wallace brings together political analysts and media experts to dissect Trump’s unraveling support, the fractures playing out in right-wing media, the impact of the ongoing Iran war, rising economic anxiety, and the administration’s authoritarian overreach—especially against the free press. Rich with firsthand perspectives and pointed critique, this broadcast offers both a granular look at shifting political allegiances and a broader concern about democracy and media freedom in America.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. MAGA’s Coalition Under Pressure

• Broken Promises & Public Fractures:
  Nicolle Wallace outlines how Trump’s base, once believed to be unwavering, is finally “literally falling apart in public” due to failed promises on war, economics, and self-serving governance.

  “This afternoon, under the 10-ton weight of so many broken promises…Trump’s MAGA coalition isn’t just buckling, it’s literally falling apart in public.” (N. Wallace, 01:19)

• Right-Wing Media Dissatisfaction:
  Megyn Kelly characterizes Trump’s current polling as a “five alarm fire” for his coalition (03:58) and Ann Coulter mocks Fox News for dystopian coverage of the Iran war, comparing it to 2020 election denial (04:30).
  Marjorie Taylor Greene’s reply: “Fox News is now the fake news brainwashing boomers to support what we voted against” (04:41).

• Polling Data:
  Declining support among young people and Latinos. Independent voters are turning away at rates exceeding any previous low for Trump (04:59).

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2. Economic Pain Compounds the Crisis

• Souring Markets, Soaring Prices:
  Consumer sentiment and financial markets are plunging; gas prices are “soaring in one direction” and vacation spending is down except among the ultra-wealthy (03:12).

• Las Vegas Indicator:
  Fewer middle-class families visiting Vegas; high-rollers remain, highlighting growing inequalities (03:20).

• Insider Trading and Corruption:
  “The insider trading story is very important. I don’t think we can quite get our arms around yet whether this is a question of loose tongues at Mar-a-Lago or something a lot worse.” (D. Frum, 15:08)

  “As gas prices go up, the awareness that there are people close to Trump… making a lot of money on bets… looks… like they got [knowledge] from the president’s inner circle.” (D. Frum, 26:23)

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3. Betrayal and Alienation Among Trump’s Base

• Younger MAGA Voters Disillusioned:
  Veterans and young MAGA supporters voice betrayal over the Iran war, breaking with Trump’s “America First/no new wars” promise (Politico segment, 21:23).

  “He’s lied about everything he said. If you go into a war where there’s no end game, how is it going to end?...There is now a trifecta of stories that MAGA can’t message around; the reality is too glaring.” (E. Glaude citing J. Balak, 21:23–22:46)

• Fracturing Coalitions:
  Eddie Glaude notes that populist, libertarian, and corporate elements within MAGA are splintering, as the source of Trump’s power—alienation and grievance—is now turning against him (09:52).

  “Now, Donald Trump is the man…of the conspiracy. He’s been lying, he’s lining his pockets…those who feel this deep sort of alienation, they are now on the outside calling Trump for who he is.” (O. Darcy, 09:52)

• Disaffected to Nonvoters:
  “Some of the voters…will become non-voters…A big chunk will become nonvoters. I think some will look for someone within the America First coalition…Democrats should not count these voters out as somebody that could be appealed to.” (T. Miller, 23:56)

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4. Corruption and Grifting: The New Achilles’ Heel

• Brazen Self-Enrichment:
  “He cares about enriching his family and his kids…that is what has happened. He’s betrayed them.” (T. Miller, 05:49)

  “If I were in Qatar…we gave Trump a half-billion dollar bribe…What did we get for that?” (D. Frum, 15:52)

• Democrats’ Opportunity:
  “A Democratic candidate who has a message for these young voters, who separates himself from some parts of the Democratic brand that are unappealing…should try to reach those voters.” (T. Miller, 23:56–25:37)

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5. The Authoritarian Creep: Assault on the Free Press

• FCC Weaponization:
  Brendan Carr, Trump’s FCC head, openly boasts at CPAC about muzzling and “defunding” critical media personalities and organizations (PBS, NPR, Joy Reid, Jim Acosta, Colbert, CBS, CNN).

  “President Trump took on the fake news media and President Trump is winning.” (Carr via N. Wallace, 30:31)

  This is described as a deliberate, politically-motivated campaign to “punish critics” and “reward allies” (E. Glaude, 31:12).

  “The administration views the news media not as an institution to be protected, as an enemy to be silenced and controlled.” (E. Glaude, 31:12)

• Chilling Effect and Free Speech:
  “Brennan Carr is boasting that he’s, you know, censoring or at least attempting to chill speech in this country. And this is coming from the free speech president.” (O. Darcy, 32:15)

• Algorithmic Manipulation:
  Concern over Trump allies (Ellison, Musk, Zuckerberg) controlling major media, algorithm-driven platforms (Paramount, TikTok, X/Twitter, Meta) and shaping public discourse, with Norm Eisen’s lawsuit over media consolidation as a central battlefront (39:07–41:10).

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6. Media Consolidation: A Civic and Political Threat

• Not Just News, But Culture:

  “He’s actually waging a campaign against all media…what HBO is putting on air, what movies you’re going to see at the box office. That’s a big deal.” (N. Wallace, 39:11–39:30)

• Golden Age of Independent Media—But Algorithms Are Key:
  “We’re kind of in a golden era of speech…The problem is the algorithms…if you have…a small number of rich guys who got in charge of the algorithms out of a corrupt deal…that is corruption.” (T. Miller, 42:21–43:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Betrayal:
  “He’s lied about everything… If you go into a war where there’s no end game, how is it going to end? There’s no clear objective.” (J. Balak via E. Glaude, 21:23)

• On Authoritarianism:
  “Shouting about Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd on a partisan stage is insane. And it is authoritarian and it is a threat.” (T. Miller, 35:30)

• On Corruption’s Political Impact:
  “Corruption is historically a 90/10 issue, right? Like everyone is against corruption. And when Trump is committing it in public in full view, it’s pretty hard to defend against it.” (E. Glaude, 19:02)

• Defining the Crossroads:
  “The fight over the merger is, in the end, a fight over whether the American media and information systems remain pluralistic and independent of the government or whether they become further consolidated and easily influenced by autocrats.” (Norm Eisen via E. Glaude, 37:53)

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Important Timestamps

• Breakdown of Trump’s Coalition & Right-Wing Infighting: 01:19–05:49
• Economic Discontent & Corruption: 13:58–16:50; 26:23–28:14
• Disaffected Voters and Party Realignment: 21:23–25:37
• FCC’s Assault on Media & Authoritarianism: 30:09–37:23
• Media Consolidation, Algorithms, and Civic Risk: 39:07–43:29

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Episode Tone and Language

Throughout, the tone is sharp, urgent, and laced with both frustration and dark humor. The panelists blend insider knowledge with open exasperation at the state of American democracy and media.

“No one is going anywhere”—a wry motif—captures resignation that deeper fractures and further revelations are imminent.

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Conclusion

This episode lays bare how the MAGA coalition’s durability is being tested by war, economic decline, and open corruption, while right-wing and younger constituents break ranks, often publicly. As Trump’s numbers sink, his administration doubles down on authoritarian tactics, targeting critical journalism and consolidating media power. Yet, as the guests note, these cracks also present opportunities for political realignment and the preservation of democratic norms—if the public and politicians are vigilant and proactive.

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Contributors:

• Nicolle Wallace – Host
• Eddie Glaude – Princeton Professor, Political Analyst
• Tim Miller – The Bulwark, Political Analyst
• David Frum – The Atlantic
• Oliver Darcy – Status Newsletter

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Transcript

[Nicole Wallace]

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[David Frum]

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[Tim Miller]

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[David Frum]

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[Oliver Darcy]

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[Nicole Wallace]

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[David Frum]

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[David Frum]

And you know, I would love to

[Tim Miller]

believe our President and our administration, but just. Just like we talked about at the very beginning, everything that has come out

[David Frum]

has been a bait and switch.

[Nicole Wallace]

Complete 180 lie.

[Eddie Glaude]

If only anyone had warned you guys that it was all a lie. Hi again everybody. It's five o' clock now. In New York, the man who once insisted he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose any of those people, his supporters now appears determined to put that theory to the test. Because this afternoon, under the 10 ton weight of so many broken promises, too many to count, Donald Trump's MAGA coalition isn't just buckling, it's literally falling apart in public. It starts but does not end with what's going on in Iran. And yes, while most of the self professed MAGA crowd have engaged in a month long game of follow the goalposts. From no new wars to this isn't actually a war to well, it might be a war, but there are any boots on the ground to whatever the story is that Donald Trump tweets or posts or blurts out a significant portion of non maga Trump voters are coming to grips with that particular betrayal among others. Like the economy. Just open the newspaper or drive down the street and here's what you will see. Financial markets and consumer sentiment dropping sharply. Then there's the price of gas. We don't have to tell you it is soaring in one direction. Up, up, up on the doorstep of spring and summer vacation season. And if you're into reading tea leaves and sneaky economic indicators, consider the state of Las Vegas. Quote, the high rollers are still rolling in, reports the New York Times. But for the tax brackets that don't usually fly by private jet, those budget conscious customers appear to be staying away. It is a reality apparent even to prominent figures in right wing media, people like the gentleman we showed you, right wing podcaster Sean Ryan, what you just heard. Just today, former Fox News anchor Megyn Kelly shared yet another dismal and historically low poll for Donald Trump with her many, many listeners, describing it as a quote, five alarm fire, end quote. Meanwhile, another right wing personality, Ann Coulter, posted this quote, watching Fox News assure viewers that the Iran war is going super well and Trump is a total stud is like watching the same network assure viewers that Dominion Voting Systems rigged the 2020 election and that Trump was the winner, end quote. The top reply from Marjorie Taylor Greene to Ann Coulter was, quote, fox News is now the fake news brainwashing boomers to support what we voted against, end quote. A new analysis in the Atlantic puts it into context and perspective. Quote, the MAGA faithful are overwhelmingly sticking with the President. Not so for everyone else. A number of new polls show that some of the voting blocs that helped power Trump's 2024 win have lost faith in him. His support among young people has cratered. So has his approval among Latinos. According to one survey, more independent voters disapprove of the President now than they did at any point in his first term. The broad coalition that put Trump back in the White House no longer appears to exist. So much for shooting someone on Fifth Avenue. That is where we start the hour with Princeton University professor political analyst Eddie Glide is here. Also joining us, political analyst, host of the Bulwark podcast, Tim Miller is here. Also joining us, staff writer at the Atlantic video podcast host David from is here. Tim Miller, I start with you. I was gonna say I don't derive any pleasure. I derive immense pleasure in watching all these people who dragged Trump over the finish line in 2024 say, oh my God, oh my God, omg, we don't want this. Because again, I don't know what's in their heads and hearts. Some of them may actually feel some responsibility to their listeners. Again, I do not know. But all of them realize that a dude at 33% and dropping is a commercial loser.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, that's right. On Friday's show when you were on a well deserved vacation, Nicole, I told Alicia that I'm granting us as like a never Trump priest. Everybody gets five minutes a month of gloating, I told you so, smiling. And then unfortunately we have to actually like talk and communicate to those folks and offer them a different way.

[Eddie Glaude]

Five minutes seems excessive, right? I take your point. And you can't mock them because for whatever the reason, they're now telling the truth. And that's a good thing for sure.

[Tim Miller]

And yeah, we did warn them that they shouldn't trust Donald Trump, but it's also true that Trump lied to them and Trump betrayed them. And I think that's an important message for Democrats and anyone in the pro democracy movement going forward is that these voters were betrayed by him and that he made them a series of promises that he's not followed through on. He doesn't care about the forgotten man, he doesn't care about prices. He doesn't care about not sending young men to war. What he cares about is his new ballroom and the new armrests on the Kennedy Center. He's been talking about that a lot. And he cares about enriching his family and his kids. And those are all just facts. That is what has happened. He's betrayed them. And that's why his numbers are lowering, because some people notice it. I don't think it's that surprising that the last people into the boat are kind of the first ones out and the first ones to notice it. And that was a lot of these kind of manosphere podcasters, but also younger folks and more working class folks that weren't quite as engaged as the Kamala Harris coalition was. People who had legitimate frustrations with cost of living and had fond, maybe mistaken memories of the pre Covid economy. And that kind of explains that. And I think those folks that came in are looking around right now and going, what the heck? And I think that we're gonna continue to see this is the thing. And that's why I'm trying to put a limit on the amount of gloating, because it's gonna get worse and it is going to get worse. Like even if Trump, as we are talking right now, decided, hey, I'm gonna give some sham deal to Iran, I'm gonna cut some deal where they get a bite out of my crypto coin and I get a cut out of the Strait of Hormuz and he does some corrupt deal and turns around right now like the long term ramifications of this, we all lived through this in Covid. You can only disrupt the supply chains in a global economy so much before. There are all kinds of ramifications you can't predict. And if you look and read the news from newspapers around the world, Italy, Korea, Japan, England, people are already feeling real pain, and we're feeling it here at the pump. But I think that it's going to expand beyond that. And I think that there's going to be more people jumping on the bandwagon and sounding quite a bit like Sean Ryan sounded in that clip.

[Eddie Glaude]

I have not been reading the newspapers from Japan and China and around the world, but I do watch basketball. Here's what Charles Barclay had to say in terms of sort of permission structures. And again, I don't know if there is. I mean, Charles Barclay has enough power and enough standing to say whatever he wants whenever he wants. But these comments come and they sort of coincide this moment of unprecedented political weakness for Donald Trump. Eddie, let me play this.

[David Frum]

The way some of these other immigrants are getting treated in our country right now is a travesty and a disgrace. I think there is a difference between amazing immigrants and criminal immigrants. And I think what's going on in our country, what we're doing to some of these amazing immigrants is really unfortunate

[Tim Miller]

and it's really sad.

[David Frum]

And that's a great immigrant story.

[Tim Miller]

We have a lot of great immigrant

[David Frum]

stories out there who their stories need to be told. But some of the stuff that's happening

[Tim Miller]

to immigrants in our country right now

[David Frum]

is really unfortunate and it's really unfair. But immigrants built this country and we should admire them and respect them.

[Eddie Glaude]

So, Eddie, it is one thing to hear that on a political broadcast, and it is another thing to hear it from a candidate. And again, if you were trying, paying attention to Harris and Trump trying to decide who to vote for. Only one of the candidates said that. It is another thing to hear that from one of the biggest and most powerful and popular voices in sports in our country in the middle of a broadcast about sports. Your thoughts about what's going on right

[Oliver Darcy]

now, right against the backdrop of one of the biggest sporting events in the country. We all are still reeling from that UConn Duke game, as it were. So I think it's really important for us to understand the size of the audience that heard Charles Barkley's words the other day. So I think what we're witnessing, of course, is the crack in Trump's coalition, but we're also seeing kind of the effect of deep seated worry that, you know, people are feeling that the ground beneath their feet doesn't feel as sturdy. Nicole, because of what's happening at the gas pump. What's happening in the grocery stores. Their lives seem not to be so certain. And then when we telescope that and try to think about what's going on with Trump's coalition, we've been talking about it for a while that that coalition has consisted of populists, libertarians and corporatists. If the populist had any ideology, Nicole, it was kind of an isolationism, a nativism and a kind of conspiracy driven ethic. Right. And what was so important about it is that that populism attracted those low propensity voters, those low propensity white voters who were alienated, who felt a sense of grievance. That's the source of Donald Trump's power. Now, Donald Trump is the man, he's the object of the conspiracy. He's been lying, he's lining his pockets. And so the folk who've been grifting and the folk who feel this deep sort of alienation, they are now on the outside calling Trump for who he is. And so we see it converging with this sense of anxiety that the country is in a tailspin, as it were.

[Eddie Glaude]

You know, David Fromm, I've done all sorts of things lately that I don't do very often. This is another one. Tucker Carlson has been criticizing the war in Iran a lot. So I'm not going to play you that. But to my knowledge, Tucker Carlson has never criticized the lack of humanity or character that he sees on display from Donald Trump, ostensibly because, well, I don't know. Again, I don't know why, but let me show you what that sounds like.

[Nicole Wallace]

I've noticed even since the war began,

[David Frum]

a lot more talk like that president saying he's glad Mueller's dead. Good.

[Oliver Darcy]

Right.

[David Frum]

And I thought as someone who, you know, vocally opposed the Mueller investigation, like every night that it was ongoing every single night. So obviously not for the Mueller investigation. Yeah, I was more opposed to it than anyone else. But when a man dies, even if

[Nicole Wallace]

it's someone you disagree with or even

[David Frum]

hate, like, there's a certain reverence in death that's required if you're going to have reverence for life.

[Nicole Wallace]

Absolutely.

[David Frum]

There's something awful about that.

[Eddie Glaude]

I made it three times. I thought that was a stunning critique from none other than Tucker Carlson. David Frum.

[David Frum]

Well, I wouldn't say none other. It is not astonishing to me that the leading pro Putin voice in American media was unhappy to see Trump, the Trump Putin relationship investigated. Of course, he was against the Mueller investigation. Investigation. It was embarrassing. Both of his best friends in politics, not just One of them and one of the, one of the reasons that people like Tucker Carlson are getting and the others are getting off the bus now is because if you're going to preserve a future neo fascist movement in the United States, it's going to be very important to localize the blame for what's happening to Trump to just the Iran decision to suggest that everything was going fine until the end last week of February of 2026. But we are approaching the one year anniversary of the Trump tariffs being applied in full force. The economy was bad in 2025. Job creation was bad in 2025. The prices were bad in 2025. And the people who are looking to jump now onto the JD Vance ticket are going to be arguing, see, it was all about Iran. The decision that J.D. vance will discover later that he opposed all along and not about everything else that Donald Trump did in the second term, including the stealing, including the extreme crackdown in immigration and above all, the tariffs.

[Eddie Glaude]

Let me pull out some of those economic indicators for you, David Frum, because you're right, there were signs a year ago and there was some attention paid to it. But then I think this phenomenon Trump always chickens out presented itself and the story kind of came off the maybe the front pages, but the economic distress that people feel certainly, as you point out, precedes the Iran war. Gas prices financial markets fall to new 2026 low as oil rises again. Investor concerns were driven by energy prices, with gas prices at the pump shooting up to a national average of $3.98 dollar higher than one month ago. Prices are expected to worsen in coming days. The jobs information is troubling at best. The tariffs are still creating sort of a morass. What is your view on the worsening economic picture and the more brazen corruption? The reports about insider trading based on geopolitical knowledge.

[David Frum]

I think the insider trading story is very important. I don't think we can quite get our arms around yet whether this is a question of loose tongues at Mar a Lago or something a lot worse and more sinister. We don't know how inside the inside traders were. But I think one of the things that happens when a president falls to such a low level of popularity is he loses some of his protective shield. It is reported. I don't know this for a fact. I just know what I read in the papers that Corey Lewandowski, when challenged about some of the grifty stuff he was doing at dhs, said, I don't worry about it, Trump will pardon me. Now, Trump at 50% may pardon Corey Lewandowski or Kristi Noem if he needs to. A Trump at 30% is going to be conserving, is going to be saying I need to expose myself less to fire. And the Corey Lewandowskis and the Kristi Noems may realize if we're going to save ourselves, we have to turn on the big guy. And that will be true for a lot of the other people in the Trump ambit. You know, one of the things that if I were in Qatar, if I were in the United Arab Emirates, I'd be thinking, if I were in Qatar, I gave Trump a half billion dollar bribe in the form of a jet plane. If I'm the United Arab Emirates, we gave Trump a half billion dollar bribe in the form of a state led investment in his ridicul crypto company. What did we get for that? That's like a billion dollars of bribes just from two people in the range of Iranian rockets. What did we get? They may turn state's evidence too.

[Eddie Glaude]

It's fascinating to say nothing to Miller of the investments in American media companies that are aligned with Donald Trump. Your thoughts about people being more interested in the grifting and the corruption and the insidery storylines as the economy falters?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, look, the story I'll tell is kind of similar to one that David says, but I think I'll put a little bit more of like a campaign lens on it, which is, you know, I was noticing this weekend that Ron DeSantis, Republican governor of Florida, was posting kind of obliquely but about the downturn in the economy. He was talking about how the bond rate was going up, mortgage rates are going up. I think he also highlighted energy prices and that caught my eye. And he's done a few of those recently. Not criticizing Trump by name per se, but obliquely criticizing the economy. And to me that is interesting because he's not a pundit who has an audience to care about. He's a politician that is looking at the future. And we've talked for so long on the show, Nicole, for years about how all the incentives, if you're a Republican politician, was to look the other way at all Trump's misdeeds and focus on the areas where you agreed with them because that's what the voters wanted you to do. Right. And we're starting to see some signs. I don't want to overstate it because it was early, but we're starting to see some signs where those incentives might be switching. And what is an area that you could turn to, in addition to the Iran war, as David laid out, if you wanted to say, hey, I was on board for the policies and the good stuff and the MAGA and the nationalism and whatever, the immigration. But it seems like the corrupt dealing began to get too serious. Right? And I heard that the liberals said stuff and they always accused him of it. And it was. But late in the second term, we started to see, look at how much Jared Kushner is making from Saudi Arabia. Look at how much the Trump family is making from this cryptocurrency. I was against this because I was betrayed, because I trusted him. And they betrayed me and they stole. And I still am America first. I'm still maga. But Trump started to steal and he started to let us down. And whether it was Iraq or Epstein or the theft, for those reasons, I'm starting to move off the train. I think that we're gonna start to see that more and more of that, and I think that that is something that some of these guys will at least try out and we'll see if it works with the base.

[Eddie Glaude]

Well, it's so interesting. I mean, corruption is historically a 9010 issue, right? Like everyone is against corruption. And when Trump is committing it in public in full view, it's pretty hard to defend against it. If you're Trump or any of his traditional defenders, no one's going anywhere. Also ahead for us, another sign of America's lurch toward autocracy under Donald Trump. The head of the fcc, Brendan Carr, is again saying it out loud that he's happy to wield the powers of the state to crush journalists and journalism and news outlets that he persists as being anti Trump. He's already bragging about what they have achieved so far in this area. But for First Amendment advocates, the alarming question right now is what do they do next? We'll have that conversation later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

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[David Frum]

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[Eddie Glaude]

we're back with everybody. Eddie Glad I want to push sort of behind these abysmal poll numbers and even within the Trump coalition, picking up on Tim Miller's point. Sort of the last ones in or the first ones out. This is an emerging age gap in terms of the soft coalition that assembled in 24. This is from Politico. Quote he's lied about everything. Iran war puts Trump on shaky ground with young MAGA men Quote Joseph Balak feels betrayed by Trump. It's because of the war in Iran. The 30 year old veteran served in Iraq and Afghanistan and voted for Trump in 24. But at CPAC he sported a hat emblazoned with America First, a slogan Trump championed during his campaign along with the promise not to start new wars in foreign countries. He's lied about everything he said. If you go into a war where there's no end game, how is it going to end? There's no clear objective. I'm not going to ask you to weigh in on the import of a 2024 Trump voter. I'm going to ask you to weigh in on this rationale. What he's saying is, quote, there is no end game. How's it going to end? That's not information that they're broadcasting on Fox News. It to me blows up the idea that MAGA is not that you can't penetrate with facts and reality. It has been the case for a long time. But with the war in Iran and with the economy and with gas prices, it feels that there is now sort of a trifecta of stories that MAGA can't message around the reality is too glaring.

[Oliver Darcy]

I think that's absolutely right. And it's particularly the case, Nicole, when the issues center around the very things that they care about, the very things that motivated them to get involved in politics in the first place. So you can't lie about the Epstein files because that matters to them, right? It matters to them. You can try to avoid, say it's a non issue, it's a Democrat. No, it's going to come back because that was motivating a lot of their political energy. You can't lie about Iran, right. In the forever wars, that was part of what motivated them. And part of what we have to do is to understand the source and the depth of the alienation. And so what we're seeing with Donald Trump is a deepening of that alienation among a certain segment of his base. And so that's going to be, I think articulated or expressed in a way that, that, that, that, that morphs or morphs or grasps onto the deep grievance that motivated how they engaged in politics in the first place. And so you can't message that out of, out of this, out of, out of view. That's actually at the heart of the, of the very reason why they engaged in politics in the first place.

[Eddie Glaude]

I mean Tim, to that point, what happens to these voters?

[Tim Miller]

Well, it's a good question. I think that there is some of the voters who kind of become non voters. For starters, young voters are the least likely to vote in general. And I think Donald Trump activated a lot of people who felt disconnected by the two party system. And so I think that a big chunk of these voters will become non voters. I think some of them will look for somebody within the America first coalition who can carry that banner, whether that be God forbid, Tucker Carlson or an MTG or if JD Vance can refashion himself as an anti war candidate, somebody who is trying to stop it from the inside. I think he will struggle to do that, but that might be something he tries. And then I do think that Democrats should not count these voters out as somebody that could be appealed to. Not all of them, probably not the guy in the America first had at cpac, but some of their counterparts who are young men who are disaffected, who are anti war. Look, if you look at the successful Democratic candidates of my lifetime, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama both ran kind of against the Democratic Party, against the two party system in different ways. Right. Obama ran against the war, but then also kind of from the Middle is a uniter, somebody who's going to do racial healing. Clinton ran from the middle middle as a Southern governor, so it could look a lot of different ways. But I think that a Democratic candidate who has a message for these young voters, who separates himself from some parts of the Democratic brand that are unappealing, who has clear kind of moral framework about how they talk about foreign policy in the wars, I think that Democrats should try to reach those voters. I think that some portion of them will be gettable.

[Eddie Glaude]

David from I think I asked you maybe six, seven months ago. You've been reporting on the corruption and the grift for months. Maybe it was around the East Room being knocked down and all the corporations that paid for the destruction of the east east wing. I think I asked you something like how do you make people care? And you said, well, I don't know, but we just sort of keep putting it out there. It seems like we're at a moment where a lot of the things that have been true about Trump for nine years are longer, are now more believable, I guess by people who once supported him or people who thought it was all left wing hysteria, which is hilarious considering the three of us worked in Republican politics. What is your sense of sort of the salience of the information and the stories about Trump's corruption?

[David Frum]

Well, here are some things that are coming home to people that are very closely linked to the corruption. As gas prices go up, the awareness that there are people close to Trump and we don't know how close, who are trading on information about oil and gas and making a lot of money on bets that look, as I think it's been said, no one bets a billion and a half dollars if they're not sure of how the bet is going to go. So you're paying more. Other people are profiteering off knowledge that they have they somehow got from the president's inner circle. I think the decline of crypto is going to bite. Crypto was unusually appealing to young men and especially to minority young men. They were sold a bill of goods. Crypto is deflating. And again, that's where Trump made a lot of his dirty money out of. I think one more thing that is going to go on is we should also bear in mind the Iran war is a moving story. And the story that we're going to be telling today is not the story we may be telling in four weeks. Now, I presume the United States is doing a lot of damage to Iran's war making capability. But the trend of this of this war is the president is on truth social more or less begging the Iranians for a face saving exit from the war. And if they just keep denying him the face saving exit, he has to keep doing stuff. Maybe it's escalating or maybe it's pretending. I don't know what the stuff is. But every time that Iran fires a rocket at somebody, they give the lie to Trump's claim that he's achieved a successful end. And they can keep playing the game in the Strait of Hormuz. They can keep giving special favors to shipping that is protected by the Chinese in ways that is going to look more and more humiliating. And we'll remind people the Gulf states and Saudi Arabia put a lot of money in the pocket of the Trump family. A lot. Uae, Qatar, Saudi Arabia. And we may begin to hear from them. What did we pay all this money for if we're not getting a higher level of customer service than we're getting?

[Eddie Glaude]

It's such a good point and it's sort of why what in 2017 Trump tells his voters, don't believe your eyes, don't believe your ears, just believe me. David from Eduard, thank you so much for starting us off on these stories today. Tim sticks around a little bit longer. When we come back, a break glass moment as America under Donald Trump now looks and sounds like something much closer to an autocracy. Donald Trump's handpicked head of the FCC publicly and openly bragging about Donald Trump's assault on free speech and a free press. And they're worrying signs about what they're going to do next. We'll have that reporting for you next.

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[David Frum]

Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster? I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires. I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet nibbles after his untimely end. This is very strange, Angie. The one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail]

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[Eddie Glaude]

the Trump administration continues to show all of us that atop their agenda is their war on journalism and press, any press that might cover them truthfully and critically. Donald Trump's henchmen at the fcc, Brendan Carr, made clear that he views the Trump administration's attempted takeover of the media as a success story. Watch.

[Nicole Wallace]

President Trump took on the fake news media and President Trump is winning. Look at the results so far. PBS defunded, NPR defunded. Joy Reid gone from msnbc. Sleepy eyes, Chuck Todd gone. Jim Acosta gone. John Dickerson gone. Colbert is leaving. CBS is under new ownership, and soon enough CNN is gonna have new ownership as well. So we're not.

[Eddie Glaude]

So this is, we're not at the

[David Frum]

point yet raising the mission accomplished flag.

[Nicole Wallace]

But President Trump is taking on the fake news media and President Trump is winning.

[Eddie Glaude]

As if we needed another reminder that we do not live in normal times. That is something that in normal times you would never hear. The head of the agency tasked with enforcing the country's media laws say, as status news reports, quote, the administration views the news media not as an institution to be protected, as an enemy to be silenced and controlled. And that is exactly what they're doing. Carr wasn't speaking hypothetically or abstractly. He was boasting about a deliberate, politically motivated campaign to reward allies and punish critics. For the first time, the FCC chairman made clear that the free speech he claims to protect is being wielded as a tool in a partisan battle over who controls the nation's most powerful media platforms. Joining me at the table, Oliver Darcy. He's the author of the newsletter Status, which covers all things media. Tim Miller is here as well. There's something disarming about the way they say it out loud and make that list right. That's a list that autocracy and democracy Watchers might assemble. They make it and then repurpose it for political gain.

[Nicole Wallace]

At cpac, he just says the quiet part out loud. At cpac, on the stage, it's obviously highly disturbing because this isn't how things are supposed to operate in a free country. The FCC chairman is supposed to be even handed in the way he Enforces policy, Nicole. But, you know, it's somewhat chilling at the same time because he's not entirely wrong there either when he lists these things that have happened. A lot of it does stem from the pressure that Donald Trump and Brennan Carr have placed on these news organizations. And so, you know, I'm watching this clip of Brennan Carr and I'm thinking, you know what, it's obviously very disturbing. It's really frankly an American, what they're doing. But also a lot of these news organizations, a lot of these media organizations have bowed to pressure and they have defunded public media. They have done these things. It's just jarring to hear them brag about it as if it's a good thing. And what's also surprising as well is they were supposed to be the free speech White House. What happened to that? Brennan Carr is boasting that he's, you know, censoring or at least attempting to chill speech in this country. And this is coming from the free speech president.

[Eddie Glaude]

I mean, the entire war against social media companies was around this issue of free speech. And Ted Cruz and Charlie Kirk and Tucker Carlson were its vanguards.

[Nicole Wallace]

Do you remember the Twitter files? I was, I mean, I'm long, I'm old enough to remember the Twitter files. And that whole thing was about government pressuring a private company to police speech. And this is exactly what they're doing right now. It's just not happening in secret. It's not. They're not quietly doing this. They are loudly doing this. They're thumping their chests as they attempt to scare news organizations and media companies away from coverage that's going to be critical of Donald Trump. I mean, we've talked about this in your show. The fact they've gone after comedians on late night programs. There are no ends to this. They really like to censor critics. That's really what it comes down to. They do not believe in free speech.

[Eddie Glaude]

You know, Tim, we have a lot of these conversations about the watchful eye I keep on the manosphere. It is harder to find a defender inside sort of those late arrivers that you talked about than it is to find a critic. Do you think that they will like it's an applause line at CPAC to say, you know, they defunded PBS and they took these sort of normal journalists off the air. Do you think it will extend if their censorship extends into one's friendly terrain?

[Tim Miller]

I don't think so. I don't know. We'll see where the blowback comes from. I think in some ways There is this overlap between people we've been talking about the crowd that was anti war that cared about the Epstein files. They also said at least that they cared about free speech. That is different from the CPAC crowd. That is different from the people that have put on the Trump hat and are going to cheer everything. But it should be chilling. It is chilling what he's doing. I mean, people. You're not really even supposed to know who the head of the FCC is. It's not really a great sign of what the FCC chair is up to. If you know who that person is and can name them like that.

[Eddie Glaude]

We've got a Brandy Carr beat reporters.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, right. I mean, you worked in the Bush administration. Can you name the FCC chair for the Bush administration? I'd be impressed if you could. Don't put me on the stage. Look, that's. Yeah, exactly. No, but that's the point. Because they're bureaucrats are doing a job. They're trying to make sure that people don't break the laws. That's not what this is. Shouting about. Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd on a partisan stage is insane. And it is authoritarian and it is a threat. And, you know, I think that these guys should probably be a little bit concerned about where this goes because I think if the Democrats ever take back power and if you look at the way that they have corruptly consolidated media, the way that the algorithms are being abused by Elon Musk on X or by the Ellison family potentially, we'll see with the purchase of TikTok, the lies that are being spread on some of these outlets like Newsmax and fox. The Democrats in the past have pulled a lot of punches on this in the spirit of free speech, because they want to protect free speech. And. And these guys are changing the rules of the game in a way that I think is pretty ominous and I think might actually boomerang back on them.

[Eddie Glaude]

I mean, their tools, though, are conventional. And right now their biggest political problem is that if you add up the listeners of Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly and Sean Ryan, it's more than Fox News on fox's Best day. I mean, do you see them expanding the censorship to other platforms?

[Nicole Wallace]

I don't know. I mean, you can't rule anything out with Brendan Carr. I do think it's a problem for him, though, because there are, you know, as Tim has been saying, there are a lot of people that did support the president and have turned against him in some ways. And I think the free speech thing was a really defining principle for them, like we are free speech absolutists. This was a whole thing like lighting up the right.

[Eddie Glaude]

I remember. Yeah.

[Nicole Wallace]

For many, many years. It wasn't just something that came and Donald Trump embraced it and it kind of helped him get elected. But now he's really betrayed that principle. And I do wonder, you know, like the people, like when Joe Rogan is constantly railing against you. That is not without an effect. And we haven't seen it entirely yet. I think we'll see it during the midterms. But like, this stuff does have political consequences. People do listen to what Joe Rogan is saying. And I don't know, if I were the president and his political advisors, I'd be very worried about losing that crowd.

[Eddie Glaude]

Yeah. And it does. It cross pressures them completely. That is sort of the First Amendment crowd. No one's going anywhere. There's much more to tell you about, unfortunately, on this story. We'll be right back. We're back. Let me read this to you guys. This is Norm Isen writing on Substack about a lawsuit against the merger. No Kings of America or of media either. What's at stake here is not simply another corporate combination, but rather a profound shift in who controls the production and distribution of news and entertainment in the United States. When a handful of firms dominate both creative output and the channels through which Americans understand the world, the risks aren't just economic, they're civic. The assumption that the merger is a FAI accompli deserves to be challenged. That's because the fight over the merger is in the end a fight over whether the American media and information systems remain pluralistic and independent of the government or whether they become further consolidated and more easily influenced by autocrats. Now, I guess I have a two part question for you. One, on its merits, what do you think of the lawsuit? And two, just having this sort of cacophony of really basic autocracy versus democracy themes around it. What does that impact?

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not a lawyer,

[Eddie Glaude]

so I can't tell you what I'm saying. We'll leave the legal.

[Nicole Wallace]

I do trust Norm, but I do think this piece is so interesting is we often focus on the news media and how Donald Trump is applying pressure there. And it's bad when news media organizations bow down to it. But it's so much bigger than that. He's actually waging a campaign against all media. He wants. You know, when you talk about David Ellison potentially controlling Paramount and Warner brother Discovery, those two movie studios really shape how we understand culture.

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[Nicole Wallace]

What HBO is putting on air, what movies you're gonna see at the box office. That's a big deal. And then you talk about TikTok, you know, what videos are gonna show up when you're scrolling through your phone. You talk about Meta. And now how Mark Zuckerberg is best friends with Donald Trump after Donald Trump literally threatened to jail him during the 2024 campaign. You think about X and how that's now under control of Elon Musk, and you start thinking about how we consumer information and who is shaping that. You know, how are the algorithms being written? Who's in control of that? Is it Mark Zuckerberg who, you know, took down fact checking because Donald Trump didn't like it? Is it Elon Musk who's obviously in the MAGA camp, although he's kind of exiled from Donald Trump's good graces, but, you know, he's still pushing things that direction, who's making the movies? And it all does come back down to, you know, these are mostly Trump allies. And when you only have a few major corporations, media moguls who are deciding what millions and millions of people, not only in this country, but across the world see, I think that is disturbing and certainly makes it easier for Donald Trump to influence them and to push them around. And I think that's really what he'd like.

[Eddie Glaude]

Tim, you've talked about this before, specifically the algorithms. Your thoughts about protesting the merger?

[Tim Miller]

Look, I think it's important. I think that it's important to frame it in the context of politics and corruption. That's what this is about. I think you can have a policy disagreement over two companies merging and where antitrust should kick in and what's the right number of media companies. You know, I think that Norm would probably be more anti merger in general than I would be. You know, I think that there's a lot of media companies out there right now. I don't know if consolidation in itself is the biggest problem, but the problem is corrupt consolidation, political consolidation. This is unprecedented. This is something we haven't seen in a century in this country. The idea that the President would choose who the owner is of media companies, but also these tech companies. And in the tech companies, it's particularly stark because of the algorithms. I think if the Democrats get back in charge, yes, they should try to think about antitrust and disaggregating some of these, particularly the ones that came about as corrupt deals like the Ellisons, but also making rules around what they can do with the, with the algorithms, because that is controlling a lot of what people see. So, you know, to me, this is a corruption story. And I think that it's important, important to really focus it on that because that can bring in the broadest possible options for disentangling it.

[Eddie Glaude]

I mean, the two of you are sort of leaders of independent media, of creating it and of creating the content and of drawing massive audiences. Isn't that the check on the corrupt consolidation on the other side, Tim?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. To me, this is why I do think in some ways, we're kind of in a golden era of speech. You can get speech from so many places. TikTok from the Bulwark. You can get it from MSNBC now. You can go, you know, yeah, like, they're beehive subsec now is a competitor now. So that's why I'm like, a little. You know, there is a group of people who are very concerned about consolidation, and they think that consolidation is a problem in its own. And I think we can have that debate. My issue is, okay, sure, there are a lot of places where people can go get information, and they should sign up to be a Bulwark plus member. You know, you can get independent information anywhere. The problem is the algorithms, right? And if you have a small number, big of rich guys who got in charge of the algorithms out of a corrupt deal, because that was the thing with the. The Ellisons. Like, this was a corrupt deal. It was an illegal deal that we had banned TikTok in this country, and Trump did this, you know, by fiat, and he put his friend in charge of the platform, which now has an algorithm that can impact what people see. I mean, that is corruption. And so, yeah, there. There are opportunities out there in independent media, but that shouldn't make us any less vigilant. I want you to fight against the corrupt part of us.

[Eddie Glaude]

So important. What you guys both do is so important. Tim Miller, thank you for spending the hour with me. Oliver Darcy, thank you for reporting on all this. I mean, it's your reporting that allows us to have these conversations. Thank you. Thank you for that one more break. We'll be right back. I absolutely loved this conversation. On this week's episode of the Best People. My guest is my dear friend, longtime journalist and anchor and reporter Alex Wagner. We got to do what we do when she sits here at the table in the breaks, without taking any commercial breaks at all or any restrictions on our free speech, if you know what I mean. Take a listen to what she had to say about what we've been talking about. This hour, Donald Trump's fracturing support from inside his own media. Media echoes. You go back to things being done in our name. The strike on the girls school is something that isn't sitting well even with those high profile members of Trump's co.

[Commercial Announcer]

I can't believe I'm gonna say this sentence. I wanna give Megyn Kelly and Tucker Carlson credit that it's about the moral stain and not just, oh, we're involved in foreign adventurism. But I genuinely think it's a betrayal of the isolationist policy that he wrote into office on.

[Eddie Glaude]

Right.

[Commercial Announcer]

And the notion of betrayal is so piercing right now. I think in the wake of the Epstein stuff, this idea that you sold Isabella goods, you are not who you said you were gonna be. This, I think war represent, it ties into the Epstein betrayal. It's its own sort of betrayal. And that's what's riled MAGA's hack much. Or at least some MAGA folks. It's an emotional sense that, you know, Daddy, Daddy said something to us and then he lied to us, and then he lied again to us. And we are mad at Daddy.

[Eddie Glaude]

She is, as always, brilliant. You don't want to miss the rest of that conversation. To listen. You just scan the QR code on your screen right now or download wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to let me know what you think on Instagram or Blue Sky. One more break. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes. I also want to thank my dear friend and colleague Alicia Menendez for helming these two hours in addition to her own anchoring responsibilities. Last week, while I enjoyed some family time, why have I asked my h

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vac guy I found on Angie.com to change my grandpa's trachea tube? Because I was so amazed by how quickly he replaced our air ducts, I knew I could trust him to change Pop Pop's tube while I was on vacation.

[David Frum]

Make it quick, young man.

[Oliver Darcy]

Aw.

[Eddie Glaude]

See? Pop Pop trusts you.

[Tim Miller]

Uh, I think we should call a doctor.

[David Frum]

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