Deadline: White House — “One of the most troubling things I've seen”

Date: December 4, 2025
Host: Nicolle Wallace, MS NOW

Episode Overview

This episode dives deeply into growing scandals surrounding the US military’s operations in the Caribbean, specifically the controversial “double tap” boat strike that killed shipwrecked survivors, and the fallout rocking the Pentagon, including Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s alleged mishandling of classified information (“Signal Gate”). Nicolle Wallace leads a panel of national security experts, lawmakers, and journalists in dissecting the political, legal, and ethical implications, highlighting rare bipartisan condemnation and the mounting pressure for transparency and accountability.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Boat Strike Scandal: Facts, Law, and Outrage

• Two high-ranking military officers, Admiral Frank Bradley and Joint Chiefs Chairman Dan Kane, testified behind closed doors about the deadly double-tap strike on a drug-smuggling vessel in the Caribbean (00:57).
• Video Evidence: Lawmakers who saw unreleased video described it as deeply disturbing, depicting US forces attacking shipwrecked, defenseless survivors — a possible violation of the Laws of Armed Conflict.
• No “Kill Them All” Order: Admiral confirmed under questioning there was no explicit order to kill all survivors (02:51).
• Legal Framework: Wallace reads directly from the DoD manual, which explicitly prohibits firing upon shipwrecked individuals (06:43), emphasizing this is “clearly illegal.”

Quote — Jim Himes (Ranking Member, House Intelligence Committee):

"What I saw in that room was one of the most troubling things I've seen in my time in public service... Any American who sees the video that I saw will see the United States military attacking shipwrecked sailors." (02:00, 02:32)

Bipartisan Condemnation:

• Republicans and Democrats alike (Mike Turner, Thom Tillis, Rand Paul) called the second strike illegal or a war crime.

"If someone knowingly launched a second missile at that boat, which led to the deaths of the other two, then they have to be held accountable, and they shouldn't be in whatever role they're in." — Senator Thom Tillis (13:14)

Republican Pushback In-Context:

• Notable that prominent conservative news outlets (Newsmax) called the action a war crime, signaling how politically volatile the situation has become (16:56).

2. Accountability Debate: Who Orders, Who Answers?

• Arguments emerged over whether responsibility rests with Secretary of Defense Hegseth or Admiral Bradley; Senators pressed for clarity on the chain of command and whether illegal orders were given or interpreted (14:08, 25:35).
• Lawmakers, military attorneys (JAGs), and experts stress the requirement not to obey unlawful orders — and raise concern over morale and legal liability throughout the chain of command.

Quote — Ret. Rear Admiral Bill Baumgartner:

“When you start a campaign of lethal force on a bad premise, with bad legal justification, you end up with bad decisions as you go down the line... Applying rules of engagement for terrorists to survivors clinging to wreckage doesn’t end up well.” (05:30)

Quote — Senator Gary Peters:

“If we're not at war, of course what they did was actually commit murder... And folks involved in that need to be held accountable for it.” (25:35)

3. White House & Pentagon Responses — Shifting Stories, Political Fallout

• Trump’s Response:
  When pressed on releasing the video:

  "Whatever they have, we'd certainly release, no problem." (03:32)
  But also observed trying to shift blame onto subordinates, claiming ignorance about specifics.

• Blame-Shifting Culture:
  Discussion highlights a reluctance at the top (Trump and Hegseth) to accept responsibility, with accusations of “passing the buck” down the chain (10:44, 14:57).

  “The tone is set from the top of the chain of command. And for him to try to shirk accountability and push this on to a commander, I think is something that should be appalling to Republicans" — Ben Rhodes (14:57)

4. Signal Gate Scandal: Mishandling of Classified Info

• Inspector General's Report:
  Confirms Hegseth used personal messaging apps to transmit classified operational details, directly contradicting months of denials by the Trump administration (29:59).
  The IG warns that such behavior risked mission security and the lives of US troops.

  “Hegseth did not comply with Pentagon instruction, which prohibits using a personal device for official business... The secretary's actions created a risk to operational security that could have resulted in failed US mission objectives and potential harm to US pilots.” — IG Report summarized by Nicolle Wallace (29:59)

• Lax Attitude at the Top:
  Trump downplays the signal story, displaying ignorance or dismissiveness about digital security.

  "It could be that signal is not very good... There was no harm done because the attack was unbelievably successful that night. Hegseth is doing a great job. He had nothing to do with this." — Trump (36:47)

• Panel’s Consensus:
  Both scandals (boat strike and Signal Gate) reveal a “wanton disregard” for standard military conduct and the welfare of service members, shaking trust inside the ranks and among top commanders (33:27, 34:16).

5. Broader Impact — Pentagon Culture, Morale, and Congressional Oversight

• Morale & Division:
  Military sources report growing divisions within the Pentagon, with some defending Hegseth, others fearful of retaliation for speaking out, and many disillusioned by toxic command climate (19:58, 21:18).
• Bipartisan Congressional Action:
  Lawmakers announce new bipartisan oversight investigations, with several committees demanding video release and transparency from the Department of Defense (23:20, 24:44).

6. Press Freedom at Stake

• The New York Times sues the Pentagon over a new press policy that allegedly violates freedom of speech and due process, further demonstrating the administration’s attempts to limit scrutiny (42:25).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jim Himes (D-CT):

  "One of the most troubling things I've seen in my time in public service. You have two individuals in clear distress... who are killed by the United States." (02:00)

• Ben Rhodes (Fmr. Deputy NSA):

  "There’s no spin that can describe how people hanging on to a burning boat posed a threat to US Military forces whatsoever. That’s physically impossible." (10:44)

  “It's not what we think about it. It's the fact that these institutions, that they're going to have to rely on, they can't do anything without these institutions. People in them are going to have their own views.” (41:00)

• Senator Gary Peters (D-MI):

  "You're trained... you have a responsibility not to carry out unlawful orders. This appears to certainly be an unlawful order to launch a strike on defenseless folks who are the result of a shipwreck." (27:43)

• Rear Adm. Bill Baumgartner:

  “Trying to apply rules of engagement for terrorists to survivors clinging to wreckage... doesn’t end up well. And I think that we've got confirmation that it doesn't end up well, and it doesn't look good.” (05:30)

• John Heilemann (MSNow Analyst):

  "He's fundamentally just not a serious person... not seriously qualified either in terms of history, experience, intellect, temperament, anything to be the leader of the Pentagon." (32:27)

Timeline of Important Segments

• [00:57] Episode tee-up: background on the closed-door Congressional briefing about the boat strike.
• [02:00]–[02:51] Rep. Jim Himes describes the leaked video and the incident’s gravity.
• [03:32] Trump claims willingness to release video, deflects responsibility.
• [05:07]–[06:39] Admiral Baumgartner critiques the entire premise and legal basis of the mission.
• [06:43]–[08:34] Detailed reading of the DoD manual; bipartisan legal concerns aired.
• [09:26]–[09:47] Senators Rand Paul and Mike Turner voice legal concerns.
• [10:44] Ben Rhodes details limits of White House spin and the dangers of expanding executive war powers.
• [13:14]–[14:08] Sen. Thom Tillis calls for accountability, focuses on the chain of command and who ordered the strike.
• [16:56] Newsmax legal analyst calls the action a war crime.
• [17:44]–[19:58] Panel discusses Pentagon internal tensions, morale, and civil-military relations.
• [23:03]–[25:35] Sen. Gary Peters discusses oversight investigations and the clarity of the illegality at stake.
• [29:59]–[33:27] Report on “Signal Gate” dropped; Heilemann and Rhodes analyze pattern of recklessness.
• [36:47] Trump trivializes the scandal, displays ignorance of security protocols.
• [38:22]–[40:57] Heilemann and Rhodes dissect disregard for military law and resulting institutional backlash.
• [42:25] Lawsuit over press freedom at the Pentagon.

Overall Tone & Language

• Serious, urgent, and bipartisan anxiety runs throughout.
• Lawmakers, experts, and even conservative outlets use stark, unsparing language: “war crime,” “murder,” “atrocious,” “reckless leader.”
• Discussion is unflinching about institutional and ethical consequences.
• Host and guests show clear concern for rule of law, military morale, and American accountability.

TL;DR Takeaway

This was a bombshell episode highlighting how a single military incident — the apparent illegal targeting of shipwreck survivors — has upended political alliances, exposed a Pentagon leader’s reckless disregard for rules and security, and triggered multiple investigations. Bi-partisan voices unite in outrage, likening the events to “war crimes,” and the episode underscores how leadership style and accountability—or their absence—reverberate from the highest offices to the lowest ranks.