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Deadline: White House
"Reaping what he sows"
00:41:04
July 24th, 2026; 4pm: Jackie Alemany, in for Nicolle Wallace, on incredible brand new reporting detailing Donald Trump lashing out in an Oval Office tirade.
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- [00:00]
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Ms. Now presents the chart topping original podcast the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week, Historian, professor and author Heather Cox Richardson.
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Jackie Yellin
What Americans really are doing in this
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Jackie Yellin
actually there is joy in the creation
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Max Rose
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Jackie Yellin
Hi everyone, it's 4 o' clock in New York and I'm Jack Yellimani in for Nicole Wallace. There's incredible brand new reporting today on how Donald Trump is reaping what he sows when it comes to the war that he launched with Iran. My colleague David Rhode confirming news first reported by the Wall Street Journal that Donald Trump lashed out during a recent Oval Office meeting. The Journal reports that he, quote, launched into a tirade against Iranian leaders, calling them scumbags and lunatics and unleashing a series of expletives. As the war in Iran enters its fifth month, Trump is increasingly frustrated that a conflict he once thought would be over in a matter of weeks has dragged on with no end in sight. Despite the fact that Trump announced a ceasefire in April and signed a memorandum of understanding with a pathway to an agreement to to end the war in June. Iran and the US Continue to trade strikes, and Iran's allies in Yemen are threatening to now close another key shipping chokepoint sending oil prices soaring. The Journal also reports that Trump is skeptical of reaching a peace deal at all and that, quote, some of Trump's advisers now worry that the war, which has resulted in higher prices, falling approval ratings and the deaths of more than a dozen US Service members, is consuming his presidency and damaging Republicans already dim prospects in the coming midterm elections. That deep and growing concern that Republicans are facing the political abyss as voter anger over rising prices and an unpopular war, sits in the backdrop of stories like the Pentagon lowering the death toll from the war from 18 service members to 14, removing the four who were killed this past weekend. Three officials told the Times that, quote, one reason behind the change was that the Trump administration decided to remove four service members killed from the list, three in Jordan and one in northern Iraq, because their deaths occurred after President Trump declared a ceasefire in the war in April. The acting press secretary for the Defense Department told the Times that the adjustment was due to a, quote, temporary data disruption, but it's part of a pattern of a remarkable lack of transparency around the war. One retired general telling the the administration seems to have a real hard time being honest about what is going on, not just about casualties, but about the whole war in general. And that is where we begin today with chief political correspondent for the Wall Street Journal, Josh Dossey. Also joining us, ms, now national security analyst John Kirby. He was the press secretary for the Pentagon and served as a spokesperson for both the State Department and the National Security Council. Before that, he was rear admiral in the Navy. And with me at the table for the hour, former Democratic Congressman Max Rose is here. Thank you all for joining me today. Josh, I want to start with you. Some amazing inside the room reporting. Can you just talk a little bit about maybe what was left on the cutting room floor and whether you sense there's any regret going through the sort of going through those conversations in the White House about the president deciding to embark on this war to begin with and all of the people around him who months ago in February decided not to push back against that ultimate decision that he made to embark on this.
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Josh Dawsey
Yeah. What we're going to now reporting, Jackie, is that the headaches have just piled up for the White House since this war has begun. The president, as we reported, is frustrated with the Iranians who he's struggling to make a deal with because they kept reneging on the terms. That's something that many of his advisors feared would happen, that if the president just signed a deal, the Iranians may not stick to it. But there are other problems as well. Right. A lot of his staff members, senior staff members have been told, but they're under threat from the Iranians and not to take car services and to be, you know, particularly alert. You saw the episode with the plane last week where he had to change from his beloved plane overseas because of potential threats against his life. He's really frustrated about gas prices over $4 a gallon. Now, again, Republicans are concerned about those in the midterms. The president's convened a series of meetings in the white with his aides to talk about how to get gas prices down. They want a job on a cajole with all executives. But, you know, it's unclear if that's going to be successful or not. You see the fatalities, the casualties piling up. You saw the president obviously went to Dover this week for the somber ceremony with the families. So it's really five months into a war where the president hoped it would end within three or four weeks. He had been buoyed by success in Venezuela, where they quickly took out the leader there and thought this would be easier, frankly, if you talk to people around him. And getting the strait open has been hard. Getting gas prices down has been hard. Managing it, the Iranians has been difficult. And this is not where the White House would hope. Would hope to be at this point. You know, a few months ago, the President kept saying, you know, we have totally demolished them. We totally demolish them, where they're sending missiles in, you know, to kill. To kill soldiers. They obviously clearly have some capabilities. It's not right now the happiest time. If you're in the West Wing.
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Jackie Yellin
And Admiral Kirby, I want to ask you about something else, a graph that Josh penned that really struck me, which is that as the war has lingered, Trump has grown less confident that the US And Iran can find a diplomatic solution. He's complained to advisors that it's difficult to know who speaks for top leadership. And every time the US Thinks it's made progress at the negotiating table, Iran continues its attacks. I mean, you were in an administration that was dealing with active threats, again to the US that were coming from Iran. Isn't this negotiating 101 with the Iranians? I mean, what was. I mean, when I first read that, my reaction to that, those two sentences were, duh.
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John Kirby
Look, the Iranian regime is not and has never really been monolithic. And the irgc, the hardliners, the mullahs, they often act on their own agenda and on their own timeline, from the quote, unquote, elected leadership or the civil servants in the government. My big concern here is that the folks that Mr. Witkoff and Mr. Kushner are talking to are not the folks, pragmatists though they may be, not the folks that own the drones and the missiles and have an incentive to keep fighting. That's the irgc. And quite frankly, from all appearances, it also includes the Supreme Leader, who is doing nothing to rein in the IRGC and appears to be siding with their view of this, their sort of extremist view of this conflict. So I'm glad to see that the President is seeing this challenge. I'm sorry that it's taken this long for him to see it, but it's exactly the right concern. The negotiating folks are not the same as the fighting folks. And it's the fighting folks you have to deal with here as he begins to escalate this conflict.
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Jackie Yellin
And Max. And yet everything that the Admiral just laid out. Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff still think a deal is possible despite their boss thinking the opposite. This, this is according to Josh and the Journal's reporting. Is it time for a new negotiating team? Is that, is that what's going on here? Or, or is this, are we in a multi year long conflict at this point with the Iranians realizing that having this leverage on the Strait of Hormuz only works to their benefit and they should keep it going and, and instill these delay tactics as long as possible?
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Max Rose
The answer is yes and yes. Right? I mean, it would be, of course, wonderful to have a negotiating team that was not simultaneously also negotiating multibillion dollar deals from GCC countries for their real estate funds and investment funds. This is the definition of conflicted interest. But on the same hand, you are absolutely correct. This is not only what it looks like for America to surrender in the region, but this is also what forever war looks like. Because what we have revealed to not just Iran, but to the entire world is that they could experience a myriad of different defeats. And all they need to do is bomb one ship in the region whenever they like, and they exact leverage over the global economy and over oil prices. And that is not a tool that they are going to relinquish very easily. Due to this President's recklessness, we are now locked in this regional conflict for months, if not years to come.
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Jackie Yellin
Well, and because I want to stick with you for a sec, Max, because you use that term forever war, but you have this Pentagon saying that actually, let's discount the deaths of these four service members who died in the line of duty, killed in Jordan and northern Iraq, because there isn't actually a war going on. So what are we supposed to call it when American troops come home in caskets?
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Max Rose
It's called the casualty of war. And to think that this administration, you know, bringing us into another reckless, forever war, not planning for it in advance, not bringing the country along with you, not involving Congress, that is one thing disgraceful in and of itself, but it is a whole other level of not just tragedy, but also, I think, just gross political action. To take a soldier's service member's death in combat, the ultimate sacrifice that they could make and put rare politics on top of it, because you want the American people to somehow think that what they're looking at on TV is not war when it very obviously is.
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Jackie Yellin
And Josh, I want to get back to again, not to belabor this, but your excellent reporting and you have you included a quote from Steve Bannon that essentially goes scorched earth against this war and what the president's decision to ultimately get into it at the encouragement and the behest of Benjamin Netanyahu. He told you Netanyahu has led us into a horrible conflict filled with lies. People can see with their own eyes what is going on when there's obviously a lot of conversations that we have all been having about whether or not these MAGA influencers actually speak for the broader Trump constituency and the MAGA movement, people like Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene, or are they just talking to each other? I'm wondering if you can give us a status update on whether or not you think this kind of feeling is now reflected in the broader movement.
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Josh Dawsey
Well, I think it was more of a reflected to be sure. I mean, I talked to pollster Whit Ayers the other day, a long time Republican pollster, who was saying to me the worst so broadly remain popular among Republicans, but there has been some erosion and some notable erosion. Right. And some loud erosion from the right. And as this has gone on now, you have a total cost of north, north of $35 billion.
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Max Rose
Right.
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Josh Dawsey
You have more FATA, you have gas prices up, you have the global economy sort of taking some hits and you have a lot of uncertainty. You can't imagine that the war becomes more popular as time goes on. I don't think history shows us that wars traditionally become more popular the longer they last. So you've seen folks like Steve Bannon who are willing to speak out publicly and repudiate what's happening. But there's been a lot of others behind the scenes as well. And what I've heard from talking to several White House officials In the last 24 hours, it's just how many Republican members of Congress want this war to end ahead of the midterms. They're calling privately to try and convince the president to make some sort of deal or to de escalate or, you know, whatever. But they want this so badly to go away. Because look, at the end of July, right? You have August, September, October, president's on the ballot in November. But these guys are on the ballot in Approximately, you know, 100 days. And whatever happens with the war and with the president standing really reflects on them. And right now it looks like a challenging situation for some of these members.
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Jackie Yellin
Yeah. And Admiral Kirby, just a short Time ago, A little bit over a year ago, you were working for Joe Biden when the Trump campaign was going around messaging on the fact that Joe Biden and his defense secretary, Lloyd Austin, also your old boss, and Kamala Harris, were personally responsible for the death of 13American service members in a suicide attack on Kabul in 2021. He told a podcaster, Lex Friedman, in 2024 that they died because of B and Kamala. Is Trump responsible for these deaths?
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John Kirby
Now, ultimately, the commander in chief, of course, is responsible for the manner in which men and women in uniform are deployed, the risks that they take, and certainly in this case, the wars that they fight. The buck stops at the Resolute desk. President Biden understood that, respected that responsibility and shouldered it. So did Secretary Austin. So, yes, absolutely, President Trump is responsible. He's the one who made the decision to start this war. And it bothers me back to what Max was saying just a few minutes ago, that he's willing to trivialize the deaths of some of them just because he's fixated on the death count, which is ghoulish all by itself. Each of these lives lost is a sacrifice to the nation, certainly a sacrifice to their families, and deserves to be honored for that.
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Jackie Yellin
And Max, just jumping off of some of what Josh shared with us, that there are members of Congress right now that are actively still encouraging the president, calling him, asking him to come to a deal. Although based on our reporting, I don't even know if there's any plans, even at this moment, for another round of negotiations. But as a former lawmaker, as someone who has navigated situations similar to this in the past, I mean, has Congress completely neutered any real power that they have to actually push the president to go to the negotiating table other than these behind the scenes channels that they've been engaging in?
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Max Rose
Sure. Interestingly enough, in this situation, the Republicans have and always will be under this president, neutered in terms of their legislative power. They gave that up a long time ago. But the Democrats have been building power, particularly under Hakeem Jeffries leadership as it pertains to this issue. Just look at when the war first started, war powers resolutions were not necessarily even passing the House. Now they are, in fact, on a regular basis, continuing to raise the fact that it's not just Democrats calling out the fact that this is an unconstitutional war, a reckless war, but also Republicans are coming on board. I think that pressure will continue to mount and you'll see those votes start to gain further momentum in the Senate as well.
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Jackie Yellin
And before we are out of time, I do want to play some sound that we have from Alex Tabett who's been talking on the ground with voters about their feelings about this war. Let's give this a listen. The Nadiral Kirby. I want to ask you about it on the other side.
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When you think about this war almost five months in with no clear end in sight, how does it make you feel?
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Josh Dawsey
Just disgusted. Every morning I wake up, I don't even want to look at the news. Another soldier, airman, sailor getting hurt, killed for something that's not even declared in the books.
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Commercial Announcer
Where are we heading in this war?
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Josh Dawsey
Honestly, I believe in my heart and my soul and my gut. I mean, I think the American people gonna have enough. They're gonna stand up. I just, I don't know when. But I do believe, I know, I believe that sooner or later somebody gonna say enough is enough and then somebody gonna stand up against them, stand up beside them and that number is going to grow. It's not about a Democratic thing, it's not about a Republican thing. It's about the Congress and Senate doing what they've been elected to do. Stop this madman, stop them clowns. He got to surrounding himself and do the right thing, just do the right thing.
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Jackie Yellin
So where do you think the direction this is headed in, Admiral Kirby? Any tea leaves you can read about whether there is any realistic shot of this war concluding before the November bird midterms?
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John Kirby
Jackie, it's real hard to see an exit ramp right now. My biggest concern is that both sides are misreading the other. I believe the Iranians may risk overplaying their hand. I think they think that Mr. Trump wants out so badly and he's under such political pressure that he won't go back to all out war. I don't think I would make that bet if I were them. They're setting the stage, they're setting the theater for increased military operations. I obviously don't know whether he's going to do it or not, but I think he's making sure that he's got all the options to do that and I don't think he's afraid to do that. I don't think he's that worried, quite frankly because he's not on the ballot about the midterms as it refers to him. And I think the Trump administration misreads the Iranian position, particularly the role that the hardliners have inside the regime. They're willing to be martyrs. For them, survival is success. All they want to do is keep going and keep fighting. And they don't showand haven't shown any proclivity to want to sit down and negotiate a peaceful end of this conflict. Nor, as Max has said, have they shown any interest in giving up the control that they already have over the Strait of Hormuz. So I see that we're kind of barreling right towards an escalation here. I hope I'm wrong about that. But it's hard to see right now that there's a, there's an easy off
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Jackie Yellin
ramp for negotiations, something that we have all followed closely and will continue to do. So. My former colleague Josh Dawsey and John Kirby, thank you so much for joining us today. And Max is stuck with me. When we come back, more layoffs at an agency that has been a target of Donald Trump. Look at the damage done by the political loyalists running the nation's spy agencies. Plus, Trump's voter fraud claims have been debunked over and over and over again, much to the administration's disappointment. Now, there's new reporting this morning on the pressure they're putting on the Justice Department to turn these debunked claims to criminal charges. And later in the show, with the war showing no sign of showing down, slowing down, there's also no sign of economic relief coming either. That's thanks to Trump's third attempt to introduce across the board tariffs that will only lead to higher prices for American consumers. All of those stories and more when Deadline White House continues after this. Don't go anywhere. Bill Pulte's short tenure serving as the acting director of National Intelligence appears to have made a lasting impact on the agency with new reporting on a wave of fresh cuts that have cost hundreds of American intelligence officials their jobs. According to the Washington Post, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence has shrunk more than it is more than is publicly known in recent weeks, losing about 200 personnel to firings and reassignments since June 1, according to data the Trump administration shared with Congress this week. The Post reports that the odni had about 2,000 employees at the start of Trump's second term. It's now little more than half that size, according to congressional aides. Jay Clayton, Trump's next choice to run and serve as director of the National Intelligence, is poised for Senate confirmation after his nomination was advanced out of committee on Wednesday. Joining our conversation, former assistant special agent in charge at the FBI, Mississippi. Now, national security and intelligence analyst Mike Michael Feinberg. Michael, thanks for joining the conversation today. Let's talk a little bit about what exactly this part of the DNI does. The National Intelligence Council, it's obviously a very, or at least has been in the past a prestigious analytical body and it provides these community wide assessments on key topics, everything from COVID 19 to foreign interference in US elections. So when you first heard this news of these cuts, what is your takeaway about what it means for US intelligence gathering and does it indicate anything to you about the motivation behind why the administration would go after this body in particular?
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Commercial Announcer
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Max Rose
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Max Rose
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Max Rose
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Just phone service that's there when it matters most. TextNow we've got your back. Download TextNow in your app Store today. Wireless plans require the purchase of a SIM card. Is a TextNow.com for terms and conditions? Well, I would assume that they're going after this body because of the role that ODNI has played in the past. Documenting foreign influence efforts which have generally benefited President Trump and not finding foreign influence in the made up cases that he cites where he claims people were working against him without evidence. You know, it's interesting to note ODNI is a somewhat controversial agency within the community. There are a lot of individuals at various intelligence organizations who think that the creation of odini BNI was a mistake. It's actually an argument I personally have some sympathy with. But it's now been an entrenched part of our intelligence apparatus for over two decades. And if you want to dismantle it, it should be done in a sober, prudential manner. After intensive study about what is really needed and what is not. This sort of sweeping firings and reassignments back to home agencies. It's just reckless, I don't know what other word to call it. And the National Intelligence Council, generally referred to as the nic, is the organization that sort of put the best imprimatur the intelligence community has on various theories of what's going on that could affect the national security of the United States. So by cutting off the Council at the knees, you're really only handicapping your own administration. So I don't fully understand what reason they could possibly have for doing this other than just spite towards things ODNI has found in the past that the President doesn't like.
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Jackie Yellin
Yeah, and you are exactly right. I mean, we have had this conversation on the weekend show several times with former CIA Director John Brennan about some necessary trims maybe being helpful to that chain of command. But. But this number in its totality seems again, fairly steep. Max, Nicole actually had the opportunity to interview Sue Gordon this week, the former deputy DNI who under Trump, who reacted to Jay Clayton being asked about who won the 2020 election. Let's listen.
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Commercial Announcer
That was heartbreaking to me. I believe it is 100% disqualifying. 100%. And again, I was heartened by Jay Clayton's nomination because I think he has a lot of experiences that could be good in that role.
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Max Rose
But the only job, the only job
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Commercial Announcer
of the intelligence community is truth to power. You're seeing what happens when you don't have an intelligence community and a state and a diplomatic community that is in full fighting trim. And then he comes in and says that that is so weak ass.
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Jackie Yellin
I want to dig in a little bit more to what it means to not have an intelligence community in full fighting trim, especially at a time when. When this house cleaning is going on while the US is at war with Iran.
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Max Rose
Sure.
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Jackie Yellin
What does it mean?
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Max Rose
Look, it's all part of a larger story here that this administration is weak on national security. They have thrown us into a forever war that has not just resulted in the surrender, for all intents and purposes, of the US military and the US government in the fate in the. You Know, in the face of a regional power, look at our military bases throughout the region. Some have been decimated, others have been significantly weakened. At the same time, here at home, they're waging war on their own intelligence agency that was established in the wake of 911 to prevent a calamity like that, where intelligence agencies were not sharing information from ever happening again. This is an administration that is disregarding security overseas and at home. And what they are prioritizing instead of is perpetuating the big lie that is the trade off that every single administration official has to make. You want to be a part of maga, you have to give up on your allegiance to the Constitution and a belief in our elections. And Clayton, he made that trade off a long time ago, and it is no surprise he's continuing to do so.
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Jackie Yellin
And, you know, before we're out of time, Michael, I mean, it's not just the American people that are potentially at risk here due to the administration's moves like these, but it's also the President and his staff. As Josh was saying, there's been a new wave of assassination threats and threats to people's lives, people who work to him, people who've been told not to get into cars and to be careful about their surroundings and their whereabouts. I mean, how much do things like this impact Trump and his own people?
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Commercial Announcer
Are you asking objectively or in Trump's own mind? Because I really do believe that none of this impacts his worldview or puts any pressure on him to revise his opinion in the face of facts. But what was just said, I really want a footstep. I am unaware of another administration in my lifetime that has been as weak on national security and so willing to gamble away America's advantages, give strength to its enemies, and alienate its allies as this one. The war in Iran has accomplished not a single strategic goal. There's this misconception among the administration that if military objectives are being met, the war is being won. You don't go to war in order to win battles. You go to war in the hopes that the battles you win will change the political landscape in a way that favors your country on the global stage. And where are we now? An international navigable waterway is now functionally closed at the pleasure of the Iranians and will quite likely never be free to use again. We have been given zero evidence that their nuclear program has been hindered. The, quote, hardline regime that we were going to overthrow has been replaced by one even more theocratic and even more authoritarian. We are putting our allies in the Middle east at risk. And what have we gotten for it other than American families grieving for their children who will not come home?
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Jackie Yellin
And that is a good time to remind our viewers that we still haven't even heard a definitive answer from this administration among the half dozen rationales that they've given about why we are in this war to begin with. But to hear the rest of Nicole's conversation with Sue Gordon on the Best People it's available tonight, just scan the QR code on your screen to become a premium subscriber. The episode will be out for everyone starting Monday. Michael and Matt are staying with me. And after the break, the hunt for voter fraud continues as Trump turns up the heat on prosecutors to make his claims of illegal voting a reality. That story next. As Donald Trump works overtime to make his debunked voter fraud lies a centerpiece of November's midterm elections, even his own DOJ is finding that there's no there there. The Washington Post reports this quote, president Trump's pressure on federal prosecutors to charge noncitizens with voting illegally has produced just a handful of cases, with others falling away as investigators find innocent explanations or struggle to prove bad intent. That's according to current and former officials. And it's not just prosecutors who are acknowledging that Trump's election fraud claims are B.S. it's also Republican election officials. CNN reports that more than a dozen election officials from both parties said that Trump's address surfaced little new in terms of evidence. Several GOP officials even scoffed at his presentation, pointing to the data that the administration released to try to bolster its case that there are massive numbers of non citizens voting in U.S. elections. Matt Crane, a Republican who runs the Colorado County Clerks association, said that his text chat with a bipartisan group of colleagues was filled with a lot of laughing emojis and like, you gotta be kidding me, that this was all it was. I want to bring in Ms. Now senior White House reporter Vaughn Hilliard. Michael and Max are still with me. Vaughn, good afternoon. Can you talk a little bit about the strategy if we take a step back here that the White House is employing? Because it seems like they're trying to argue two things simultaneously and maybe hoping that the American voter gets confused. They're trying to prove that Trump's grand claim of conspiracies actually exists, that the 2020 election was stolen from him and that he truly won, while also now pushing this idea that prosecutors need to charge all of the non citizens of voting illegally and that they should actually be pursued in a real way. So does the non citizen voting push that doesn't actually really exist. Let's be clear, be clear here. Function less as law enforcement and or more as scaffolding.
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Vaughn Hilliard
scaffolding that folks are starting to see through the paint chips of. And I say that because this is a moment where time and history ultimately err on the side of facts. And when folks have the opportunity to look back, they are able to see that the fraud claims that we should be clear. Donald Trump claimed that he won millions more votes in 2016 than he actually did. And he set up a commission in 2017 run by Chris Kobach, who's the current attorney general of Kansas, and made these claims of mass numbers of undocumented people, noncitizens voting. But that never materialized. That group disbanded in 2018, frankly, because they weren't able to prove it. Fast forward. We're now in the year of 2026. And yet what this Washington Post report lays out is the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security have been unable to come up with individuals who truly had intent of registering under false pretenses of being non citizens and casting ballots. We reported back in February, Jackie, along with Carol Enig and Laura Barone Lopez, that HSI investigations were underway by the Department of Homeland Security looking at thousands of names that they suspected of being noncitizens voting. Five months later, Kristi Noem, who was leading that effort, she's no longer the head of dhs. And there are no names that have been materialized from those investigations to the American public to prove what the administration for a year and a half has so far tried to claim to the masses as existing.
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Jackie Yellin
And Michael, obviously, as Vaughn noted, and we've written really extensively about it, I mean, it's not just a litmus test for someone to become a cabinet member of Donald Trump's administration to say that the 2020 election was stolen, but it's also overall sort of the operating thesis of every single policy behind the Trump administration and what they are doing in so many different ways. But do you see the DOJ actually trying to manufacture a new legal standard here when it comes to, to prosecuting these, again, very rare cases of non citizen voting?
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Commercial Announcer
Yeah, of course they're going to try and manufacture a new legal standard. I don't even view that as a question. You know, all but anointed Attorney General Todd Blanche said in public that he thought there was nothing wrong with having ICE officers at polling places. There's a federal law explicitly forbidding armed federal agents from being at polling place specifically because of worries that they will be used to intimidate political enemies of the party in power. If the Attorney General is willing to elid that statute and give his approval to the idea of federal law enforcement staffing polling places, then I have zero faith that there will be any sort of urge to decency or impulse to legality on DOJ's part that would prevent them from doing whatever they had to do to at least try and make Trump's paranoid, delusional fantasies have some sort of foundation in reality.
- [37:38]
Jackie Yellin
And Vaughn, before we're out of time, in your conversations with sources at the White House, are there any growing signs of dissent here? Anyone pushing back against this, your long false claims?
- [37:53]
Vaughn Hilliard
I would say that it's not so much dissent, Jackie, but it is less willingness to parrot, echo and propagate the conspiracy theories of election fraud. The folks that are in the White House were largely folks that were on the campaign trail with Donald Trump in 2022, 2023, 2024, and were very eager to go on the record and on camera and make the case that Donald 2020 election wrongfully stolen from them. It was essentially a litmus test for whether you were going to be a part of the campaign and whether you were going to be a part of this White House. We even had during the transition reporting that some folks that were being interviewed for political jobs inside the White House were being asked a question about what they thought of the 2020 election. And fast forward to where we are now. I think it's notable that those same folks you didn't hear last week come out on the airways around it. And you didn't even hear Donald Trump himself really explicitly. Fraud took the election from him. And so I think we're at a moment where the conspiracy theories have maybe run their course. And folks that have been were the first to be out on the front and echoing the president are notably silent. Maybe not walking it back, but notably silent.
- [39:06]
Jackie Yellin
Now, Jackie Vaughn Hilliard, all over the story. Thanks for joining us today and I'll see you back in Washington. Coming up, former prosecutors say there's not a lot to the GOP criminal referral of Jack Smith. Smith what they're saying about it. What about it? And is there a chance the DOJ tries to move forward? We'll look at that next. House Republicans criminal referral of Jack Smith could set the stage for yet another face plant for the Justice Department's pursuit of Trump's perceived political enemies, should they follow through on Jim Jordan's recommendation. Former prosecutors see an uphill battle if the DOJ does try to prosecute Smith, telling CBS News that because the GOP allegations lack any evidence that he committed a crime, he was just telling the truth. Quote, the referral letter is an embarrassment, said Kyle Freenie, a former federal prosecutor who now works for the Washington Litigation Group. This is just a case of a mismatch between what they claim they wanted to know and what they actually asked, ferney said. And if they have bad questions, they do not get the answers that they want. It's almost like deposition 101. We're back with Michael and Max. I mean, Max, I don't, I think Jamie Raskin couldn't have said it better. He put out a statement, he is the ranking member of the House Judiciary, that this referral, if ever brought before a judge, will get laughed out of court. But success on the merits is not the goal. It is meant to harass Jack Smith. It is meant to please their FOX News viewership. I mean, I've covered congressional investigations now for quite some time. You are, I'm sure, well acquainted with it. Yes, sure, there is real legal subpoena power, but they are also extremely polarized and partisan exercises that sometimes come at very convenient times. And Republicans, I want to remind everyone, have actually had the subpoena power for years now. They had it with James Comer under Joe Biden, but decided to subpoena people like Hunter Biden, not Jack Smith, because they knew that relitigating Jack Smith's case in Congress was not going to be good for the Republican Party. So why are they doing it now?
- [41:12]
Max Rose
You can always leave it to Jamie Raskin to perfectly distill a legal and constitutional matter. Let me just add some political context, please, to this, and that is that the Republican Party are a bunch of political losers right now. Look at the polls. Look at this disastrous war in Iran. Look at the price of gas. Look at all of the failed efforts to meet the promises of the Trump 2024 presidential campaign. And in the context of that political failure, they are grasping at straws and seeking any measure whatsoever. Like one of those horrific concerts you see in Atlantic City where they resurrect old bands. They're trying to bring back these old efforts to incite their base because that's all they have left. It's not going to work, but they're still going to try.
- [42:07]
Jackie Yellin
Michael, you get the last word. Is Todd Blanche going to actually go through with this referral from Jim Jordan?
- [42:13]
Commercial Announcer
I think there's little Todd Blanche won't go through with if it's in the service of maga. But look, let's point something out here. Jack Smith is a career public servant who has a reputation of being one of the sharpest and most aggressive prosecutors in latter day Department of Justice history. He is represented by Covington and Burling, which is one of the single best law firms in the world. And Jim Jordan is a former wrestling coach, gym teacher, whatever he did before he became a MAGA cheerleader. I don't actually have any doubt about who's going to prevail in this contest.
- [42:57]
Jackie Yellin
Michael Feinberg, former Congressman Max Rose, thank you both for spending so much time with us today. We appreciate you. And when we come back, Canada is no longer celebrating the opening of a new bridge with the United States. And no surprise, the reason, of course, has everything to do with Donald Trump. What would have normally been a celebration of the United States close relationships with our neighbors to the north became a Canada only event today as they marked the opening of the Gordie Howe Bridge connecting Windsor, Ontario and Detroit, Michigan without U.S. officials. Canada canceled the planned cross border ribbon cutting ceremony after Trump announced 50% tariffs on a variety of Canadian products Back in February. Trump threatened to prevent the opening of the bridge and has continued to use threats as negotiation tactics, all while referring to Canada as the 51st state. Windsor's mayor told the Washington Post this about the bridge's opening quote, under different circumstances, the opening of a once in a generation project could have seen the US President and the Canadian prime minister shaking hands in the middle of the bridge. Regretfully, we're not doing that. The mayor said it's hard to celebrate a relationship when the president of the US Continues to lob insults and tariffs at Canada unnecessarily. We'll be keeping an eye on that. And when we come back, the American consumer just can't catch a break and this administration isn't making it any easier on them. The next hour of Deadline White House starts right after this quick break.
- [44:37]
Commercial Announcer
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