Cornell Belcher (4:16)

Well, you know, I was listening to that clip about everywhere he goes, people just talk about the city of America is all they talk about. And it's so absurd, Nicole, because it's

Nicole Wallace (4:27)

like there's no way he even hears about that. I think his fear of him. Stephanie Rule had this great line on State of the Union. They said all presidents live in a bubble. He's in a gilded bubble. And even in the gilded bubble, I don't think anyone comes to him in the Gilded bubble and says, hey man, how about, how's the Save America act going? No way. No way anyone at the omelette line at Mar a Lago is talking about the Save America Act. No way anybody he ever sees is talking about the Save America act.

Kendallanean (4:57)

Right?

Cornell Belcher (4:58)

No, I've been in folks with the last couple of weeks and no, Americans aren't going stop talking about gas prices and grocery prices. We gotta, we gotta do the same America act, right? It's such a, you know, I've been in politics for a long time, but this level of just detachment and, and it's sort of a callous detachment and disregard for the concerns of everyday working Americans. Because to that point, Nicole, no one's talking about the Save America Act. And when you look at the President's numbers and you look at the, the generic that Democrats are opening up and Ameris poll is at 9 points. And at this time going into 2018, you know, most polling had it somewhere between 7 and 8 points as well. Although, Nicole, who knows what's going to happen with the generic measures anymore because all these districts are being redrawn and gerrymandered. So I don't even know what a generic means anymore. But to that point, you do see an election after election for the last year, Democrats way overperforming and winning in places that they necessarily haven't won before. And I think they can see that the writing on the wall here. And so the top priority is, in fact to rig the system to try to hold on, to hold on to power. But I got to tell you, them going all in for the SAVE act when Americans are looking at higher gas prices and grocery prices, I think they're going to pay a really high price for this level of sort of disregard, this let them eat cake level of disregard and detachment from the real struggles of working Americans.

Nicole Wallace (6:40)

Yeah. I mean, Nick, we should not underestimate the power of the lie. Right. So the lie about election fraud in 2020 sends men and women to the Capitol to carry out a violent insurrection and carry out acts of physical violence against law enforcement. Right. It is a lie that some of his supporters believed fervently. But he is now the president. At a time when 70% of Americans say the economy sucks, 64% of Americans disapprove of the job he's doing. And that is a number from before the war in Iran began. His most prominent media allies, Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly and Joe Rogan, are a big thumbs down on the war in Iran. His political coalition is blowing up sort of in full view in a way that the let them eat cake. I would extend that to John Thune and John Cornyn. Cornyn is at least running in the beauty contest against the what's his name, Ken Paxton. The two of them want the Trump endorsement because Trump has said he's going to make the other guy drop out. So there's no run up on that side. But John Thune driving sort of the car into the river, politically speaking, over the SAVE act at a time when 70% of Americans are economically distressed is a political act of malpractice that's unprecedented in modern political life.

Nick Corsini (8:10)

I think one thing too about the SAVE act is if we look at its core, this documentary proof of citizenship, there have been studies that show that this would actually harm Republicans more than Democrats, especially in the short term. The Save Democracy foundation did a study in June 2025 that found that there were much more Republican states or states that Trump did very well in that had low percentages of passports and passports under the Save America act were to pass, which is, again, an extreme long shot at the moment. There's no indication that, you know, this is on our, on the horizon. But were it to pass, you would see a lot of these states that have, that are big Trump supporting states struggle to find their documentary proof of citizenship. If they don't have passports, you then need a, you need a birth certificate and you need something else, some kind of photo id. And it's also true that a lot of older rural white voters tend to not have passports or other documentary proof of citizenship. And some more recently naturalized citizens or, or immigrants have. It's been more recent that they've gotten their citizenship and the papers are more in line. So if this entire act is indeed a political one and designed to help kind of, you know, bulwark the president against the, the tides of low poll numbers and just the historical swing of a midterm elections after a presidential. The documentary proof of citizenship provision might end up coming completely backfiring on Republicans.

Nicole Wallace (9:38)

It's such a good point to look at what's in it. You said Bulwark, and I'm going to bring in our friend, political analyst and host of the Bulwark podcast. Tim Miller's here. I'm not even sure Trump knows what's in it. Are you, Tim?

Tim Miller (9:53)

I'm pretty sure he doesn't know what's in it. And I appreciate the cue to Nick. I'm pretty sure he doesn't know what's in it. It was interesting. Here's just one anecdote about that kind of backs up Nick's point is Lisa Murkowski was asked about this walking through the hallway yesterday, and she said she wasn't going to support it. They asked her why and her reason was not the reason I would have given, but it was one that's relevant to her, which is that she thinks it's going to disenfranchise a lot of people in Alaska. And the groups that she mentioned are, you know, kind of rural white folks mostly, I think, as well as indigenous in Alaska. And, you know, it's Alaska. It's a red state. I think that that's obviously disproportionately going to be, you know, Donald Trump voters. And so, you know, I think that her. Her position is principled. It's not because she's trying to, like, protect Donald Trump from himself here. But I think that that kind of speaks to this point that I'm not even sure that if this succeeded, it would help them in the midterms that much politically. And. And it also seems very desperate to me, you know, doing some uncharacteristic positive spin on this. But look, they tried to. To. To not rig, and rig is being a little bit overstated. Like, they. They tried to rebalance the election in their favor with the redistricting. Right. I mean, that. That's what. That was the whole point of it. Like, they were trying to help themselves by changing the rules in the middle of the game for redistricting. It backfired, and the redistricting is probably going to cost them more seats than it helps them now. And it seems like they're kind of splashing around for other things to do. And so Steve Bannon's like, we're going to send ICE officials out to the. The voting booths. The administration had to backtrack from that. I think that might very well backfire because it motivate people to. To vote early and to turn and to mail in. And so now they have this plan that I might not actually. I think it's gonna be very challenging to pass then. Even if it did pass, I think a lot of blue states would challenge it. So I don't think it'd help them that much in the House elections. You know, maybe it helps them in a couple of Senate races, but it's. It's. I think they're kind of getting pretty desperate, looking for different tools for undermining the midterms.

Nicole Wallace (12:06)

Yeah. I also think, Cornell, it presumes that voters won't be able to notice that they're not trying to win over voters. Right. It presupposes that voters aren't going to notice that they're just letting everything suck. Right. Like, I can't help. I mean, here's what Donald Trump said about housing. This is from Jake Sherman. Quote, we had a big scoop yesterday in which Mike Johnson told his deputies, his leadership team, and his committee chairs that the President told him no one gives a bleep about housing. Okay, Maybe not in the gilded bubble, but literally everybody else does. A message that really was intended to Convey that he, Donald Trump cares more about the SAVE act, the Save America act, whatever, that they are two different bills, similar goals. But the point is Trump is trying to make is that this dust up between the House and the Senate on housing isn't as important. You find me, you can close your eyes and find me any 100 people in this country of any age, living anywhere, of any gender. And I promise you, they care more about the price of housing for themselves or their parents or their kids than they do about a non existent issue. I mean, Donald Trump went looking for voter fraud after Donald Trump was reelected and Donald Trump's Department of Homeland Security couldn't find any voting fraud. Bill Barr said it was bullshit. I mean, there is no voting fraud in this country that would have changed the outcome of any of Donald Trump's campaigns, the two he won or the one he lost. And I wonder, Cornell, how Democrats can really communicate to the country that Donald Trump doesn't care about your economic anxieties. Donald Trump doesn't care about housing prices. Donald Trump doesn't care about the price of gas. Donald Trump doesn't care about affordability. He thinks it's a, quote, hoax.

Cornell Belcher (13:50)

Yeah, well, two things. One is, you know, go back to that other point about it's hurt. It could backfire and hurt Republicans. I think that's true. But I also think there's a theory out there that this also just throws more chaos into our election system in a way that that's, that's harmful and it gives them an avenue to try to, you know, for the federal government to try to do something because it would be absolute chaos if, if this pass. And I'm always of the mind that Donald Trump is trying to sow chaos because that's what he's done for the last couple of months. Look, I think Donald Trump's language there is going to be very helpful to Democrats running for House and Senate seats all over the country because the Republicans have had to wrap themselves around Donald Trump and now they're going to have to wrap themselves around a man who says, you know, housing affordability is not an issue. These affordability things are not an issue. I'm about the SAVE act and I guarantee you, Nicole, in every battleground congressional district going into this, into the, into the cycle, you know, there will be some advertisements that paint the picture of Donald Trump and Republicans not giving a darn about affordability, not caring at all about the housing crisis or the healthcare crisis, and is going to be doing it in their own words.

Nicole Wallace (15:12)

Nick, what is Your sense of their next move on the chaos, disruption, you know, Tulsi Gabbard in Georgia, raiding offices in Arizona. What is your sense? What does your reporting suggest their next target for their disruptive efforts might be?

Nick Corsini (15:29)

Well, we reported over the weekend that a bunch of election activists in Michigan have obtained copies of ballots from Detroit in 2020. So that's now a third city that we know that images of ballots, not necessarily the physical ballots like there were in Fulton county, but images of ballots are now in the hands of these right wing election activists who make up all the conspiracy theories, continue to push, you know, falsehoods about the 2020 election. And especially in Michigan, where there were, say, a few administrative errors that were quickly corrected and had no impact on the results. That's the kind of stuff that keeps the lie alive. And so the fact that they have these ballots and, you know, they're talking in meetings that they're posting to rumble about their eagerness to draw parallels with Fulton county and the fact that the FBI, you know, recently subpoenaed Arizona for similar digital data, I could probably expect that in Michigan. But then also more broadly, as, as we're looking and talking about, you know, the SAVE act and what impact it happened to Cornell's point about, you know, causing possible chaos. There's a key provision in the SAVE act that would require every state to upload their voter list to the SAVE database of dhs. And that gets at another, like, major, major goal that the Trump administration has right now to get voter data, whether it's through the DOJ lawsuits, whether it's through uploading through save. And so I think that effort is going to kick into even higher gear than it already has. And with the, with the SAVE database and with the push for the SAVE act, that could be another way to kind of really intrude in what's clearly, as the Constitution states, a state based electoral process.

Nicole Wallace (17:06)

Yeah, I mean, Tim, this is rolling along as though it's all legal. It's not all legal. And I think with the number of judges who have cracked down on that, which is lawless, the number of Trump prosecutors who are now found by judges to have been acting illegally, the number of Trump sycophants in DOJ to be under investigation, this is an area where people should expect and anticipate that, where they cross the line into doing that, which is lawless, they will pay a price eventually.

Tim Miller (17:40)

I think so. And they're forcing prosecutors and investigators to act lawlessly because they're looking for imaginary crimes. That's the craziest part about all this, if you take them at their word, the election was stolen in 2020. It was the great theft in history. Now they control everything. They control the FBI. They, you know, have access to any data, any information that they want and they haven't indicted a single person. They've been rejected by some, by grand juries, but you know, they haven't found anything because there's nothing there, you know, and so they will continue to act lawlessly because they can't use, you know, the normal functions of the law that you would use even if they were, you know, acting inappropriately to go after political foes when the political foes had done something. That's not the case here. They haven't, nobody's done anything so that, so they are going to act lawlessly. I just would add one other thing that I think to as far as a look ahead and Mar and I have talked about this is to me I'm a little bit more worried about like the post election than the, than the pre, you know, and I think that's another thing that they're planning and that's why they want some of the voter data, is that, you know, they want to try to make it seem like there was more fraud than there was and you know, put out a lot of smoke and mirrors about how there were people on the, on the rolls that weren't, that were dead or whatever. And then I think that they're going to try to make the case like in the period of time between the election and when like California for example, counts, which takes a long time, that you know, the ballots are illegal and these people shouldn't be sat in Congress. Like I think that is another thing

Nicole Wallace (19:15)

that they're eyeing another period to be on full alert. Nick and Cornell, thank you so much for starting us off this hour and helping us keep this story in focus. Tim sticks around a little bit longer. When we come back, the danger around Pete Hegsess climb clamp down on reporters covering the Pentagon. They are an essential part of understanding what's happening at any time for our country, but especially when our country is at war. We'll tell you how the thin skinned Secretary of Defense is moving to restrict journalists even further. And we continue to follow. The breaking news that started our first hour, including the shooting at Old Dominion University that our colleague Kendallanian is reporting on was carried out by a former army service member who in 2007, 16 pleaded guilty to helping ISIS. The FBI will be holding a briefing on that coming up. This hour Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

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Nicole Wallace (22:07)

we are learning more today about the Iranian drone attack in Kuwait that killed six U.S. service members last week, and the details suggest that the injuries to US Service members from that attack are more severe than previously revealed. According to CBS News reporting, dozens of troops suffered, quote, injuries, including brain trauma, shrapnel, wounds and burns. At least one may require the amputation of a limb. And more than 30 military members remained in hospitals Tuesday night. That kind of reporting underscores how crucial the journalists covering the war and the Pentagon are, especially at a moment like this. Yet Pete Hegseth's department is intensifying its restrictions on journalists after Pete Hegseth appeared at a press briefing last week, three days after the initial strikes on Iran, his first appearance at a briefing since June. Photographers were banned by the Pentagon. Washington Post reports that Quote, several outlets, including the Associated Press, Reuters and Getty Images, sent photographers to the briefing from Hegseth and General Dan Kane, who chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. But after they published photos which have broad reach because they are licensed by publications globally, members of Pete Hegsess staff told colleagues that they did not like the way the secretary looked. Pete Hegsess aides decided to shut out photographers from the two subsequent briefings at the Pentagon on March 4 and March 10, according to the two people familiar with the decision. The Pentagon says that the journalists were banned in order to use the space more effectively. I want to bring in politico pentagon reporter Paul McCleary. Tim Miller is still here as well. Paul, what do you hear? The state of the Pentagon, or tell me from your experience, what is the state of being in the Pentagon press corps?

Paul McCleary (23:57)

Well, we're not allowed in the building anymore really, except for briefings like this. And we're kind of escorted in and then escorted out right after the, right after the press conference. And Hex has generally been calling on his kind of new favorite outlets, the, you know, the, the new Pentagon press corps, I guess you could call it, of, you know, conservative and right wing outlets that they, they've brought in and, and, and credentialed. And he's been calling on them for these press conferences. And I mean, the, the thing with the photos, it's, it's, Hex's tenure here has been a lot of it has been performative. Right? I mean, I think since the beginning he's, he's kind of camera ready, ready to do this stuff. But then if, you know, they're very concerned about image, you know, and if something doesn't look right, if it's not produced the way that they wanted to produce it, then they clearly don't want it out there and they, and they don't want it to happen. That's why it's so tightly controlled. I mean, he doesn't bring reporters with him on trips. Not that he travels really overseas anymore, but they've, they've shut all that down. Unless they can control it, you know, every moment.

Nicole Wallace (25:02)

What were the pictures that he didn't like?

Paul McCleary (25:05)

It's unclear exactly what, what these photos are. I mean, you know, when you see Hexeth out there, he, he looks, a lot of times when he speaks, he kind of furrows his brow. He kind of looks, looks angry. A lot of times I think they probably don't like that. It's not a good look. But wherever he goes, there's Several people, staffers following him around with video cameras and still cameras and they're, they're constantly filming these kind of campaign style ads for him.

Tim Miller (25:28)

Right.

Paul McCleary (25:29)

He does his very tightly scripted two or three minute videos from his office once or twice a week announcing his, you know, the new initiatives that he's pushing out. So they don't like anything that they don't control, which is not surprising. I mean that's, every administration does that to a certain degree, but they are really clearly, if they don't even allow photographers that they don't pay into the room, they want to control everything, every image and every utterance.

Nicole Wallace (25:55)

What is your understanding of why it took so long to inform the public about the 140 men and women who've been injured?

Paul McCleary (26:06)

I mean it is a, it's a huge number, right? And things like that, I will say always take time. They, they need to get it right, they need to get the right number. So this always takes some time. But it was days right before we had any sense of how bad some of these attacks were. We really didn't know then it's usually a little faster than this. And they finally came out with a number several days after the fact.

Tim Miller (26:28)

Right.

Paul McCleary (26:29)

And I think some of these soldiers, as we've seen and, and we've reported, are pretty critically injured and it's, it's pretty, pretty gruesome stuff, you know. So I think again, this was supposed to be a clean war from the US Perspective, right? Airstrikes, no boots on the ground, things like that. So they were not counting on casualties, I think, and they, I think they didn't really know how to handle it. I mean in Venezuela obviously the one pilot was, was shot in the leg. He got the medal of honor. But most of these U. S military operations under Trump have been without casualty, casualty free. And so that's tough. Once you start taking casualties, people start raising questions and it's, it's tough to, it's tougher to justify. And you have to make the case to the American people, which I think the administration still hasn't fully grappled with.

Nicole Wallace (27:20)

Tim Miller, let me bring you in on this. I will just say from my experience that when a public figure becomes indiscernible in real life from their caricature on snl, you're like Bruce Willis in the Sixth Sense. Politically speaking, in the public's mind, you're dead. You just don't know it. The depiction of Pete Hegg says on SNL is now discernible. I have to stop in front of a TV and turn the sound up to see if I'm watching Colin Jost or pet Pete Hegseth. And that's Pete Hegseth's fault, right? I mean, Colin Jost is brilliant, but Pete Hegseth walks into a caricatured version. He seems to be playing who he thinks a secretary of defense should be, and shielding anything unflattering or human doesn't seem to be working for Pete Hegseth.

Tim Miller (28:09)

Yeah, well, Colin just doesn't have a recessed side profile like Pete Hegseth. And so he wouldn't have to. He wouldn't have to stop people from taking pictures of him. He's always looking good in the pictures. But look, on the serious part of this, they're covering this stuff up. I mean, they've kicked Paul and others out of the Pentagon. We live in a free country. It's ridiculous that reporters are being escorted in and out of the Pentagon during wartime. Reporters should have access to other members of the military, not just, you know, the secretary spokesperson who's a former TV host who wants to spin. The American people deserve to know what's actually happening in this war. And. And they're also obviously covering stuff up. The fact that there were more injuries than they had said was bubbling around. Any military blogs or kind of any of the, you know, social media feeds you follow that, you could follow that, have kind of insider coverage of. Of military affairs. And this was something that. That we're seeing for days before they actually reported it. They lie. The president has lied several times about our complicity in the Tomahawk attack on the girls school. Just lied to people's face. And so, like, that's what we're seeing. We're seeing people that care more about their image, and they're lying to the American people.

Nicole Wallace (29:28)

I'm asking you guys to stick around. We're going to dip into this FBI briefing along with local law enforcement in Norfolk, Virginia, about the shooting today at Old Dominion. One person was killed. Two were injured. Two of the victims were members of the university's ROTC program. The shooting suspect is deceased. Let's listen in.

FBI Official (29:46)

Additionally, we are conducting other investigative steps into Jalo and the specifics of the shooting. We have dedicated analytical and tactical support. We are aiding in this investigation throughout the entire time. We will continue to work alongside of our partners and those in the community to find answers. The FBI continues to ask for the public's help, providing any information that could lead us in resolving this investigation. And we remind the public that any Detail, no matter how small, could be useful. A collection of those small details may help paint a complete picture. We ask that the public submit their tips to www.FBI.gov odush. Do you have any questions for me

Nicole Wallace (30:40)

or for my partners here?

FBI Official (30:42)

Yes.

Tim Miller (30:43)

With still little details that we know about this shooting so far, how. How are we able to confirm that this or this was an act of terrorism?

FBI Official (30:51)

How it was an act of terrorism? I can tell you that we have confirmed reports that prior to him conducting this act of terrorism, he shouted, stated Allah Akbar. And he was formerly a subject of a FBI investigation in material supporting terrorism.

Tim Miller (31:14)

Agent, were there explosives in his car?

FBI Official (31:16)

We have no information about any explosives in his car or anywhere else at this time.

Tim Miller (31:20)

Did he have one weapon?

FBI Official (31:22)

As far as I know, we only know of one weapon that he had on his person at this time.

Tim Miller (31:28)

What kind of aid was he getting to isil?

FBI Official (31:31)

Ten years ago, he wanted to conduct a terrorist attack similar to that in Fort Hood, Texas.

Tim Miller (31:39)

Is there any mention of the war in Iran?

FBI Official (31:44)

None whatsoever.

Nicole Wallace (31:47)

How was he to see the.

FBI Official (31:50)

There were students that were in that room that subdued him and rendered him no longer alive. I don't know how else to say it, but they basically were able to terminate the threat.

Tim Miller (32:04)

So he was not shot?

FBI Official (32:06)

He was not shot.

Tim Miller (32:07)

He shot three people.

FBI Official (32:10)

Correct. We have information that he shot three people.

Tim Miller (32:13)

The one that went to Virginia beach for treatment was that person who's winged or grazed.

FBI Official (32:20)

So I don't have any information at this time about the specific, you know, life threatening or not otherwise to the two that are still alive. But at this time, we're respecting the victims of the shooting. That includes not only the ones that were shot, but all of the people here at odu I consider our victims. This is a tragic event, and I do ask that you, like, look, look at that. You're all part of our community too. And so I just want to throw that out there too, to give the respect and the time needed to provide that additional information about the victims.

Tim Miller (32:54)

Did you say he was released in 2024?

FBI Official (32:56)

Correct.

Tim Miller (32:57)

What was the Bureau's intelligence level on him since then?

FBI Official (33:01)

So I don't have any of that information right now. That's because this is an ongoing investigation. After we learned of his name, we confirmed that he was formally subject of material support to terrorism investigation and obviously was sentenced for that. But I don't have any information indicating that he was known or an ongoing problem.

Cornell Belcher (33:24)

Specifics on how he was subdued?

FBI Official (33:27)

Yeah, the. The brave ROTC members in that room subdued him and if not for them, I'm not sure, you know, what, what else he, he may have done, but that's exactly. They, they confronted him and they subdued him and he was, was no longer able to conduct any further attack. Go ahead.

Nicole Wallace (33:51)

Okay.

FBI Official (33:52)

Yeah.

Paul McCleary (33:52)

ROTC students involved.

Tinder Advertiser (33:54)

Is there any reason to believe that they were targeted?

FBI Official (33:58)

Well, I believe that at this time we have to take all the information that we will receive from the victims. So I don't want to make any, like, preemptive judgments or anything to this at this time. Exactly. Keep in mind we're going to look at forensic information, you know, anything that he may have had interest specifically for any targets. And because I don't have that yet, I can't confirm that at this time.

Kendallanean (34:23)

How many people are in the classroom?

FBI Official (34:25)

I don't know the exact number of the people in the classroom.

Tim Miller (34:29)

How long do you suspect this investigation will last?

FBI Official (34:33)

It's a fair question. It, it really completely depends. So we obviously are going to dig in and this is why we need the public support to where he may have been before this, who he may have been in contact with, if he had any other supporters, anybody providing him information. So we have to track every single lead down, and that is exactly what the FBI will do. Every single lead. We are going to track down the veracity of the information and make sure that we have a full investigation with as much information again to ensure that there isn't anyone else that he may have been receiving support from as well.

Tim Miller (35:10)

Do you have any evidence that he was self funded?

FBI Official (35:13)

No, I don't have anything at this time.

Nicole Wallace (35:15)

Thank you, everyone.

FBI Official (35:19)

Thank you.

Nicole Wallace (35:25)

We've been listening to an official at the FBI provide an update on the shooting at Old Dominion University in Virginia this morning. It left one person dead and two people injured. The FBI there saying that it is investigating today's shooting as an act of terrorism, adding that they commend the ROTC students at Old Dominion who they described there as subduing and killing the shooter. As we reported before, the suspect had served time in prison for providing support to isis. Former Assistant Special Agent in Charge at the FBI and National Security Intelligence analyst Michael Feinberg is back with us. Michael Feinberg, let me ask you about what we learned here. For the first time, that person saying that the shooter shouted Allah Akbar before carrying out the shooting was something we heard for the first time, but no answer seemed pretty definitive. She was definitive that there was no apparent tie to the war in Iran, but no information about whether the FBI was tracking this individual who had served time for Providing support to ISIS between the time that Kyndolinian reports that the shooter was released from prison in 2024 and today's act at Old Dominion. Your thoughts?

Nicole Wallace (36:49)

Look, if this was an individual who had been convicted of a material support charge to a known terrorist organ and was in the FBI office's area of responsibility, I would certainly hope that they were expending all necessary resources to do what they needed to do to make sure that that individual did not lapse into the same sort of behavior.

Nicole Wallace (37:19)

What does that mean?

Nicole Wallace (37:23)

Basically, if this individual was living in the field office's territory and he had been prosecuted and convicted by the same U.S. attorney's office with whom that FBI office works, which is the Eastern District of Virginia, it would be not overreaching to say it would be negligent if they were not at least aware of the situation and if they were aware, expending resources to make sure that this individual was not planning this sort of event or anything like it. In other words, it was somebody who'd been convicted of a terrorism charge, served his time, moved to a new region. That is somebody who should have set off red flags.

Nicole Wallace (38:16)

Edva was the target of a purge after Eric Siebert, the US Attorney, refused to bring the cases against Jim Comey and Tish James to a grand jury. That's where Donald Trump now, illegally, we know, because judges have rendered judgment, installed Lindsey Halligan. We know though, as part of that purge that several national security prosecutors and others left that office. Would those be the kind of individuals that might have had responsibility for monitoring or investigating an individual who served a 10 year sentence for providing material support to ISIS?

Nicole Wallace (39:00)

There are certainly people who would have been aware of his existence and that the possibility for some sort of relapse could have occurred. The head of EDVA's national security practice, Michael Ben Ari, was fired. A number of the criminal chiefs, which is another high ranking position in the office that has oversight of national security matters, have been demoted. There has been regular revolving doors of appointed officials to run that office who, as you noted, many of whom were not properly appointed. It's not unreasonable to say that that prosecutorial office has been in a state of chaos pretty much since the inauguration.

Nicole Wallace (39:52)

Kendallanean has rejoined us. Kendelane, a lot of the things that Michael and I are talking about is reporting we learned from you. Your thoughts on what we're learning this afternoon.

Kendallanean (40:03)

Well, Nicole, since I was last on with you, I've been checking in with sources about what is the procedure for a situation like this, because after all even convicts have civil rights. This man served his sentence, he was released from prison. But as Michael was just alluding to, the FBI has a lot of tools short of a full FISA warrant to sort of check in on people that they think might be troubled or might have need monitoring short of full surveillance. They would need probable cause to sort of tap his phones, but they don't need probable cause to do a walk and talk, knock and talk, for example, just to go visit and see how he's doing. It's not clear whether any of that was done, but there's a lot of concern among people I'm talking to about how this could possibly happen, how someone could. And they were wondering why the FBI agent at that news conference kept saying he was the subject of an investigation and didn't say. He was convicted and sentenced for the crimes of material support to terrorism and other terrorism charges, served 10 years of an 11 year sentence, was released. And then what happened? That those questions just haven't been answered. And this is not the first time this has happened. There's precedent for these kinds of things. There are people who serve terrorism sentences and get released into the community. And so there are procedures for how to handle this and just not clear whether they were followed here. And then the other big question is this is an administration that talks about denaturalizing and deporting criminals who weren't born in the United States. That's not something that previous administrations really talked much about doing. But these guys have. So did they consider that in this case, was this person even on their radar? We don't know.

Nicole Wallace (41:44)

I mean, Kendallane and it brings up, I guess, a line of reporting that we'll look forward to watching what it produces. But do we have any sense that the national security purges, I mean, we should explain this because it was explained to me, you know, 14 months ago. The reason the FBI has been gutted in terms of its national security capabilities is because especially the documents case into Donald Trump. What Donald Trump took to Mar A Lago was national defense information. So a lot of the people that touched that case had national security experience. Email Boba, Todd, Blanche, Donald Trump they have demanded and Kash Patel has responded gleefully in purging the people that touched the case. Looking at the national defense information that Donald Trump took to Mar A Lago. So when we talk about a hollowed out FBI, just talk about how deep and vast those purges are. And not to be awkward, but that's the reason you're here. Michael Feinberg. Right I mean, those were your capabilities, and you now lend them to. To us instead of the FBI.

Tim Miller (42:54)

Yeah.

Kendallanean (42:55)

Michael is a living example of this purge. And I mean, the most recent example, last week or the week before, I lost track now, is when a group of people who essentially made up a counterintelligence squad who happened to have all worked in some form or fashion on the classified documents case, were walked out or forced out or fired. And that's the latest of a string of these examples. So you're right. The people. A lot of the people that worked on particularly classified documents case were national security agents. Either they had counterterrorism in their background, or they were counterintelligence, and they're gone now. And, you know, as we got some numbers the other day, more than 300 national security agents, FBI agents, who work principally on national security, have left since the beginning of the Trump term, including 42, I believe it was, or 45 who were fired and 50 in leadership. And then I saw different data after we published that story that more than 1,000 agents in total have left either through the early departure, early retirement, all the ways in which they've been purging agents in the last year, and that's only out of about 14,000 FBI agents. So there's been a huge sort of drain of talent. And our understanding is they have not hired to keep pace with that drain. And even if they did that, that's not an equivalent thing. A trainee out of Quantico doesn't bring the same capabilities to bear that a veteran agent like Michael does. And so when you combine that with tasking FBI agents who normally do that kind of work to do immigration raids or to walk the beat and do violent crime patrols, there is, as we understand it, a significant reduction in the level of effort directed at these counterterrorism counterintelligence probes. Now, Kash Patel and his people respond, and they say, well, actually, the number of counterintelligence arrests, for example, are up. And when I published that stat the other day, one of our stories, I got a lot of feedback from people that said, you know, those cases take years to make. So if that's a true stat, that certainly wasn't anything to do with the Trump administration. These were cases that were germinating for years and maybe have come to fruition now. But few people doubt that there are just simply fewer agents working these problems. And the FBI is not a big place anyway. It's not an enormous organization. It's focused. And so Michael said in the last segment that it's indisputable that Americans are less safe because of this. As a taxpayer and as a journalist, I can't see how you can argue with that. I mean, it seems to be the onus is on the Trump administration to explain how we're not less safe when they have forced out or fired are allowed to leave hundreds and hundreds of national security experts and agents in the FBI and the intelligence community.

Nicole Wallace (45:40)

Nicole Right. And that is just in the one year that he's been back. You know, the attack on the FBI was something Trump worked at and on in the first term as well. Let me do two things to you, our beloved viewers. Let me thank Paul McClary and Tim Miller on that conversation about Pete Hegseth. To be continued, I am sure. Let me ask Ken and Michael to stick around a little bit longer. We are expecting to learn more more about the other attack today, the shooting and truck ramming into a Michigan synagogue. There's a press conference scheduled for the top of the hour. We'll remind you what we know at this hour after a short break. Don't go anywhere.

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Nicole Wallace (47:55)

Law enforcement officials in Michigan are getting ready to hold a news conference about the attack on the Temple Israel Synagogue in West Bloomfield, Michigan. So far we know that the suspect is dead and officials say that a vehicle crashed into the building driving through the doors and into the hallways. One security guard was hit by the vehicle. He is expected to be okay. Police say that security guard shot the suspect. Police have spent the afternoon working to identify the suspect and and determine his motive. We're back with Michael and Ken. Ken, do you have any sense of what we'll learn in this upcoming news conference?

Kendallanean (48:31)

To be honest, I don't, Nicole. I've been focusing on the other attack and so I haven't done reporting on this one. But presumably we'll hopefully they've had time to learn some facts about the suspect here and that will shed maybe some light on motive.

Nicole Wallace (48:48)

Yeah, I mean, Michael Feinberg, I think there's a real sense that the sort of the tragedy of the constant threat that perhaps exists around the synagogue led to some preparations and protections that could have been life saving today.

Nicole Wallace (49:06)

Yeah, I mean, look, we can't say that today's events in detail in where they occurred and who was victimized were predictable. But we can say, knowing what we know about the shift in resources of the government, about the war in Iran over the past, you know, few weeks with respect to the war in the past year and a half, roughly with respect to the resources, we can say that events of this type are, were entirely foreseeable. And it is a sad commentary on how the intelligence and law enforcement community's management now views their responsibility to the populace, that this attack was stopped by private security, not by law enforcement, not by the intelligence community, but by individuals with no affiliation to the government. That's not how it is supposed to be.

Nicole Wallace (50:10)

You know, Michael Kandelane has pointed out twice that there's been this massive sort of relocating of expertise and resources into a non expert area for a lot of FBI personnel. The mass deportation, sort of arbitrary mass deportation targets that are politically motivated, not predicated on any facts on the ground pertaining to anything, even immigration. What does that do? I mean, I think that people see the stories of the firings, they understand the purge because of the investigations into Donald Trump. But Ken has raised a couple times the reorientation of the FBI which was the tip of the spear for all those years after 9 11. That we didn't have another 911 style attack on this country wasn't luck. It wasn't good fortune. It wasn't because they didn't want to. It was because under Robert Mueller and then James Comey and Chris Wray picks this up after that, the FBI oriented itself to be the best, the most competent, the most capable counter terror counterintelligence agency in the world. What does it mean? That it isn't that anymore. By design.

Nicole Wallace (51:33)

Simply that we're less safe and our political leaders don't care about us. I hate to be that blunt, but the FBI has not had an increase in personnel in quite some time, nor has it had an increase in funding. In fact, Cash Patel withdrew his request for an increase in funding when the White House told him it wasn't a good opportune time. Or when he was slapped down by Congress. He actually withdrew a request he had made. And when you have those limited resources and you add an entirely new violation that takes 25 to 30% of the entire investigative workforce on any given day, by definition, the things you were previously doing are going to fall through the cracks. And that's what happened today. Not just in Michigan, but also in Virginia. And we can only hope that as the world becomes more dangerous and we become more enmeshed in a war with Iran, that it doesn't happen tomorrow or the next day too.

Nicole Wallace (52:45)

Michael Feinberg and Ken Delaneyn, it is impossible to cover these stories without the two of you. Thank you for being here for us across the two hours. Again, that news conference on the Michigan synagogue attack is coming up at the top of this hour. Quick break for us. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes today. We are really grateful. With VRBoCare, help is always ready before, during and after your stay. We've planned for the plot twists, so support is always available because a great trip starts with peace of mind.