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Deadline: White House
“Roughly half of six million documents have not been released”
00:39:21
Alicia Menendez is in for Nicolle Wallace. Alicia covers the Department of Justice’s attempts to ‘move on’ from the Epstein files, which include Attorney General Pam Bondi sending a letter to Congress claiming that all the documents required by the Epstein Transparency Act have been released. However, Epstein’s victims and authors of the Epstein Transparency Act, Rep. Ro Khanna and Rep. Thomas Massie, beg to differ.
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- [00:01]
Alicia Menendez
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Alicia Menendez
Hi there everyone. It's four o' clock here in Washington, D.C. i'm Alicia Menendez in for Nicole Wallace. Donald Trump's Department of Justice is continuing their desperate attempts to move on from the Epstein files. Days after Attorney General Pam Bondi told lawmakers they should focus on the Dow instead of the heinous crimes of the deceased sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, her department sent a letter to Congress claiming that they have released all of the documents that the Epstein Transparency act required them to. That's despite the fact that roughly half of these 6 million documents the DOJ has have not been publicly released. In trying to defend the department's sloppy redactions with the files that have been released, the letter states that nothing has been withheld, quote, on the basis of embarrassment, reputational harm or political sensitivity. DOJ also released a list, as required by law, of politically exposed persons. It's a list of more than 300 notable names that appear in the Epstein files. But as Ms. Now reports, the list included people who, quote, had no direct dealings with Epstein and have long been dead, including Marilyn Monroe, Elvis Presley and Ronald Reagan, adding, quote, the letter does not differentiate between people mentioned in news stories who likely had little or no connection to Epstein and those who were shown to have communicated with Epstein, Maxwell and other associates. The co authors of the law that required the files to be released slammed the Justice Department's latest move, Congressman Ro Khanna writing, quote, the DOJ is once again purposefully muddying the waters on who was a predator and who was mentioned in an email to have Janis Joplin, who died when Epstein was 17, in the same list as Larry Nassar went to prison for the sexual abuse of hundreds of young women and child pornography with no clarification of how either was mentioned in the files is absurd. Release the full files. Stop protecting predators. Redact only the survivors names. And here's why. Republican Congressman Thomas Massie said the Trump administration wants to forget about the Epstein files.
- [03:01]
Ro Khanna
Look, this is about the Epstein class, the people who are funding the attacks against me. They may or may not be implicated in these files, but they were certainly rubbing shoulders with the people who are in these files. Donald Trump told us that even though, you know, he had dinner with these kinds of people in New York City and West Palm beach, that he would be transparent, but he's not. He's still in with the Epstein class. This is the Epstein administration and they're attacking me for trying to get these files released.
- [03:34]
Alicia Menendez
As for the survivors of Epstein's abuse, there are still so many unanswered questions in their quest for accountability from not being able to find details about their abuse and information about potential co conspirators and what has been released to their treatment by the Justice Department. Here is what one survivor, Liz Stein, had to say.
- [03:52]
Liz Stein
We want to see all of the men who were complicit in this crime to be outed and to be exposed. I think that we are also looking for the network, right? Epstein had to have a network. Every page that I've looked at has some kind of investigative lead. So I think that this should be the beginning of an investigation into the, into these crimes. And we haven't seen that yet. This isn't about politics. This is about a crime. We're victims of the crime of sex trafficking. And I don't think that anyone in our country, if this was happening in their community, could stand by and watch it. And so for us to see our Department of Justice just so willingly and willfully denying citizens of this country justice, it just, you know, it makes my brain explode.
- [04:47]
Alicia Menendez
That denial of justice is where we start today with Justice Department reporter for the New York Times, Glenn Thrush. Also with us, legal analyst Christy Greenberg. She's a former criminal division deputy chief at SDNY and host of the YouTube show Courtside. And Ben Weider is here, he's an investigative reporter for the Miami Herald. Christie, that list from the justice department, those 300 names, it smacks of, look over here, not over here. What do you think they were trying to accomplish?
- [05:15]
Glenn Thrush
I mean, look, putting people like Elvis and Marilyn Monroe on there, it's a massive f you is the only way I can think to say it. It's very clear that they don't want you to be able to interpret the list in any meaningful way. You can't distinguish certain names from other names. There are a number of names of my former colleagues on that list. That doesn't really tell you a whole lot because clearly they didn' have a role in this. They were prosecuting. So I really don't think, in looking at that letter, that they have complied with the law and certainly the spirit of the law. And so when you have so many documents that are being withheld for bogus claims of privilege, things like their deliberative process, which was the whole point of this act, was to find out what decisions were made to prosecute or not prosecute and why those decisions were made. When that is the purpose of the law. That's the legislative intent. That's very clear. And they're withholding documents on that basis to protect that information. That's when you have a clear dispute. That's when you have a clear violation of the law. And that's where these members of Congress need to take this up in court. They need to file a lawsuit and move to compel the release of the files. There have been clearly files that have been withheld in. In violation of the law, and they need to not just post on X but actually file a lawsuit in court.
- [06:45]
Alicia Menendez
Well, Glenn, on this question of privileged material, the rationale that we're hearing from the Justice Department, I want you to take a listen to what Congressman Massie had to say about that.
- [06:57]
Eddie Glaud
Yesterday.
- [06:58]
Dan Goldman
The DOJ sent Congress a letter explaining.
- [07:01]
Christy Greenberg
The reason for all these reactions.
- [07:03]
Alicia Menendez
So you are not satisfied with that? No.
- [07:07]
Ro Khanna
They're citing deliberative process privilege in order not to release some of the documents. The problem with that is the bill that Ro Khanna and I wrote says that they must release internal memos and notes and emails about their decisions on whether to prosecute or not prosecute, whether to investigate or not investigate, help me.
- [07:28]
Alicia Menendez
Understand the excuse that DOJ is using and whether or not it would cover the millions of files that they still have not released.
- [07:38]
Christy Greenberg
I think the simple answer to that is we don't even know the excuse that DOJ is using. They have had so many missteps, not only in the Epstein fiasco, but in every single other controversy that they have been involved in. I would just remind everybody out there, we've just had in the last 10 days, several instances in which the DOJ and Department of Homeland Security have been caught dissembling, making things up in significant law enforcement actions. And in the course of covering this department over the past year, over and over, they've made assertions in court, never mind assertions to the press, that have turned out to be patently untrue. So I would just like to start off from the top and say even this assertion, I don't even know what they're talking about in terms of the deliberative process. The other thing I want to point out is, is Pam Bondi's appearance before the House Judiciary Committee last week was a catastrophe. It was probably, and I've gone to dozens and dozens of these things, probably the most self damaging performance I have seen before a congressional committee. And that is because the tone that she needed to have, that she needs to strike, is one of understanding, contrition, listening. She did none of these things. She used the same cut and paste approach she used in the Senate last year. Attack. It's the Trumpian book. Attack, attack, attack. It works for Donald Trump. It doesn't work for Pam Bondi. That is not the stance that the American people want to see out of the Justice Department.
- [09:15]
Alicia Menendez
Right, Ben, this actually, she could have taken it as an opportunity. She could have said, of course we care about survivors. She could have acknowledged the survivors. She could obviously, in action, follow through by actually meeting with the survivors, many of whom say they have volunteered numerous times to meet with the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice has not taken them up. I am struck by some of the sound we heard from Liz Stein, who we've had on this program many times, who says, look through the files that have been shared and it becomes obvious that there are investigative leads in file after file. Why aren't you tracking those down?
- [09:53]
Ben Weider
No, I mean, I think that the survivors have made it very clear that they want accountability that they're not getting from the Justice Department. And it's important to go back, you know, 20 years to the fact that the Justice Department cut them out of the initial prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein and the deals that were being struck. And not much has changed 20 years later. Liz Stein, I should point out, was one of the few survivors who made the trek every day, nearly every day of Ghislaine Maxwell's trial in 2020, and had to fight sometimes with the administrators of the court, the federal court in New York City, to get access. And on the day that the jury rendered their verdict in that case, there were no victims present. And the reason I bring that up is to say that victims have been fighting for access to the judicial process for years, have been fighting for access to the Justice Department for years. And this would seem to be a pretty easy thing for Pam Bondi to address the victims, to center her comments on the victims and say, hey, we're trying to get to the bottom of this. We are committed to figuring out what's happening here. That's what the Republican Party is calling for. That's what Donald Trump promised on the campaign trail. This seem to be an easy thing, and yet they can't seem to get out of their own way. You know, they're more concerned, you know, in that hearing, at least, you know, she seemed to be more concerned, Pam Bondi, with scoring political points than with addressing, you know, what the Justice Department is doing. You know, they still haven't addressed the many alleged co conspirators, what they. What choices they made about who to prosecute and who not to prosecute. Liz Stein first met Ghislaine Maxwell in the store Henry Bendel in New York, which was owned by Les Wexner. Les Wexner is someone who has appeared all over these files as someone who is an alleged co conspirator in the eyes of the Justice Department at one point. Why they chose not to prosecute Les Wexner is a question that I think survivors like Liz Stein would like to know, the public would like to know. Donald Trump's voters would like to know why they can't answer that question. I just don't understand.
- [11:44]
Alicia Menendez
Well, it's gonna be interesting, too, when he shows up on Capitol Hill, whether or not there is a way to pose that question to him. Christy, I'm very struck by the messaging that we're now hearing from Congressman Massie. Right. This idea of there being an Epstein class, that as much as we have talked about the. That appear in these files, that he is almost positioning it as though there is a universe of powerful people who are protecting the people whose names may or may not be in these files. And I wonder what accountability looks like. Because fundamentally, yes, we are interested in investigating and litigating what has transpired specifically, but I think we're also interested in interrogating these circles of power that continue to protect the most powerful and make it hard to protect the most powerless.
- [12:36]
Glenn Thrush
I think that's right. Unfortunately, you have a situation where these are victims showing up to Congress and you have an Attorney General who won't even turn around and look at them. I mean, if you ever needed a picture vividly drawn for you of how powerless the victims are seen by this Justice Department. Not that they are, because I actually think they have a lot of power. The fact that this act was able to be passed was a show of not only their power, but how much the American public supports them, but of how this Department of Justice perceives them to be powerless, to not even be worth the dignity and respect of turning around and looking at them and saying, we want to hear from you. If our department has not spoken to you, we will reach out to you. Make sure to give your contact information to me before you leave. I will make sure somebody contacts you. I mean, this is very basic. It's not just a courtesy to these victims. It is actually the law. There is a law, the Crime Victims Rights act, which requires that the government confer with victims in cases. There are two criminal cases. Maxwell case is technically still pending. She has a pending motion before the court. They need to be conferring with these victims. They need to treat them with fairness, dignity and respect. And the fact that they aren't, and yet they are so concerned with redactions of various alleged perpetrators, that tells you everything about the power imbalance and how this Department of Justice, who it is that they are responding to, who it is that they actually care about.
- [14:19]
Alicia Menendez
Glenn, I want you to read to you something that Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace wrote online this weekend. She wrote, despite the memo released by DOJ last night, not all the Epstein files have been released. And the excuses provided for not releasing all the files will not hold up in a court of law. This isn't going away until people go to jail. I wonder if that is your read on the public's appetite to really get to the core of this. And I also go back to the question I was asking, Christy, for those of us who are covering this story, in as much attention as there has been to the files and what is happening inside of doj, if part of our attention and curiosity needs to begin to shift to what Congressman Massie is going to classifying as an entire class of people who are now wrapped up in this.
- [15:07]
Christy Greenberg
The phrase that struck me was the Epstein administration. That one is gonna. Look, it's really fascinating to watch Trump being wounded by his basic populist elite's message. Look, from the very beginning, you know, I covered politics for a long time. He has skated on very thin ice, both being one of the world's, you know, being conspicuously wealthy, but also being anti elitist, which is a seemingly contradictory position. And this Massey is. Is forming that wedge in between these two images of Donald Trump, both as the rich, ostentatious guy and the Guy who's with the working class, guy who hates the elites and the elites who are being predatory against regular people, people who are going through that, who are occupying that middle space between those two Donald Trumps, Massie, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Nancy Mace. And the other thing I'd like to point out here is none of this really would be happening if Donald Trump were at 45 or 46% in the polls. He is sub 40% 30s right now. He is a lame duck. And his own sort of maximalist view of both controlling the Justice Department and everything else, I think is emptying the tank of his power in the second term. We're only a quarter of a way through this, but I think the Epstein thing, which was he believed was a peripheral matter, has now actually become a central drain on his power.
- [16:32]
Alicia Menendez
Ben, I want to focus on something that Glenn said. This idea of supposed populace or faux populists who find themselves connected to very rich and powerful people. You have the New York Times reporting this today about Steve Bannon. The 3 million pages of Epstein related documents released by the Justice Department on January 30 reveal for the first time the extent of Mr. Bannon's efforts to advise Mr. Epstein when many of his friends were abandoning him in the six months before Mr. Epstein was arrested and charged with the sex trafficking of minors in July 2019. Mr. Bannon's name appears nearly every day in the files, often because the two men exchanged texts. In a statement to the New York Times, Mr. Bannon said his relationship with Mr. Epstein was strictly professional. You had Mike Flynn today saying that Bannon should be brought in for questioning. I wonder if you think that will happen.
- [17:21]
Ben Weider
I mean, whether he's brought in for question, I can't say. But it's a remarkable relationship. And to me, I think it is so incredible that one of the real architects of the MAGA movement had such a close relationship with Jeffrey Epstein when obviously this has been a hugely animating issue for the MAGA movement. And so I have been, and this really months ago, when the first files started to be released here, and we started to have a real understanding of just the depths of the relationship between the two of them. I mean, this went beyond just occasional emails you might exchange with a colleague or a contractor. I mean, this was dinner plans and travel plans and making introductions. I mean, they seem to have a real relationship, and Steve Bannon can claim it was purely business, but clearly they blurred those lines. And perhaps Epstein wanted to blur those lines, but the point is that their relationship was extensive, far greater than anyone has known before. And I do believe that politically at least, Steve Bannon, I think does face a reckoning. You know, can this, can he still claim to be, you know, one of the architects, one of the major figures in the MAGA movement when he had such a close relationship with Jeffrey Epstein?
- [18:34]
Alicia Menendez
Ben Weeder, thank you so much for being at the table. Glenn Thrush, Christy Greenberg, thank you both so much for getting us started. When we come back, Democrats accused Attorney General Pam Bondi of improperly redacting the Jeffrey Epstein files to protect Donald Trump. One of those lawmakers was Dan Goldman. We're going to ask him what is next now that the AG says case closed. Plus, the stark contrast playing out over this President's Day weekend with Trump flailing about from behind his social media posts. Wait until you see where former President Barack Obama spent his weekend and how a sold out crowd reacted. And later in the show, the terrifying fallout from Trump's immigration crackdown sending 4th and 5th grade kids fleeing from their school bus stop. Although stories and more when Deadline White House continues after this. Try angel stuff for your tushy. It's made by angels soft and strong. Budget friendly. The choice is simple. Pick up a pack today. Angel soft. Soft and strong.
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- [20:20]
Alicia Menendez
Pam Bondi's Justice Department's handling of the Epstein files has been above all else, a slap in the face to the victims of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse, whose rights to both justice and privacy should have been paramount. But as our next guest pointed out last week, it seems that this DOJ remains much more committed to protecting someone else.
- [20:40]
Dan Goldman
Also found an email that I have right here from Jeffrey Epstein to Ghislaine Maxwell that was unredacted and it included notes of statements that Donald Trump made about his prior relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Now, there is no reason for this to be hidden from the American people. There is no privilege. There is no attorney client privilege. And I see you're checking with your staff and I can assure you staff, this is not under attorney client privilege because it was sent from Jeffrey Epstein to Ghislaine Maxwell. Will you commit to publicly providing the unredacted version of this so that the American people can understand the extent of Donald Trump's lies about his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein?
- [21:27]
Alicia Menendez
You're about as good of a lawyer today as you were when you tried to impeach President Trump in 2016. Have you apologized for that in 2019?
- [21:35]
Dan Goldman
So will you, will you unredact this?
- [21:37]
Glenn Thrush
Will you undred this or lead counsel on that privilege?
- [21:39]
Ben Weider
I'm asking.
- [21:42]
Alicia Menendez
Democratic Congressman Dan Goldman of New York joins us now. He is a member of the Judiciary and Homeland Security Committee. As congressman, thank you for taking the time to be with us. That email you referenced, has it been unredacted yet?
- [21:54]
Dan Goldman
Nope, it has not. And there will be more to come. And I the importance of it is far greater in my mind than simply what is in there. It is clearly not permitted to be redacted under any privilege. And the fact that it is redacted from public view, but allow for members to see when it relates to statements that Donald Trump made makes it very, very clear that it is a part of a cover up. And that's why the two and a half to three million documents that are being withheld without any explanation are so important to be uncovered and to be handed over to Congress and for the American people to see because we have evidence that they are covering up for Donald Trump. So that's what we can actually see, what members of Congress can unveil by going over there. Imagine what we can't see in those two and a half to three million files. And you know, if Trump wants to put his name on everything as he does, then let's start calling this the Trump Epstein files.
- [23:06]
Alicia Menendez
Let's talk about that list they released over the weekend. I'm sure you've seen it of, quote, politically exposed persons. It included figures like Elvis Presley, Marilyn Monroe. What's the Justice Department's goal here?
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Dan Goldman
It's to muddy the waters. It is to lump in obvious people who have nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein's crimes and his sex trafficking ring with other people who may be accomplices or may have been involved. And it's a further effort to cover up for the pedophiles and the co conspirators and juxtapose that with the limited efforts, failed efforts and I believe intentional efforts to out the survivors and the victims to violate the law and reveal their identification, to intimidate them so they will not come forward. And as you also saw in that hearing last week, none of them have been able to speak with the Department of Justice, even though all the ones in the room have asked to speak with them. And they've been all denied, but they're all willing to do it. And the idea here is let's just wash our hands of this case closed and we'll move on because we don't want to collect any more evidence.
- [24:28]
Alicia Menendez
I mean, Congressman, I think you, your colleagues have been very clear that the DOJ is out of compliance with the Epstein Files Transparency Act. And so then the question becomes, well, what now? What efforts are left that can actually get them to comply? So let's start with a conversation that you and I have had before, your sense of the appetite among your colleagues to hold Pam Bondi in contempt.
- [24:51]
Dan Goldman
Well, look, I think it's growing and you're starting to see Republican senators and members of Congress speaking out against what is such an obvious cover up. And it is particularly egregious when you hear them talk about the deliberative process privilege. The bill very specifically requires them to turn over all of the types of documents that would be included in the deliberative process privilege. Now, it's one thing for Congress to demand that, it's another thing in a piece of legislation and that Donald Trump signed into law for him to then turn around and say, no, I'm not complying with the law because of some other privilege that I have. He very expressly waived that privilege by signing that bill. And if they're going to rely on that for so many of the redactions and for so many of with the withholdings, even though we don't know what the basis is for the withholdings, then they're just completely violating the law. So our first step is to make sure that the American public understands the degree to which this is a massive, massive cover up that is trying to protect at least Donald Trump and others in his orbit and Jeffrey Epstein's orbit and at the sacrifice of the survivors and the victims who have suffered so much from this massive, massive sex trafficking ring.
- [26:21]
Alicia Menendez
Okay, I hear you on the fact that the first step is communicating the breadth and depth of the COVID up, that there may be emerging appetite to hold Pam Bondi in contempt. We just had Kristi Greenberg on a program I know you have been on with her before, former sdny. And her big question was, will Congress take DOJ to court for having violated this act. I'm not sure whether you see that as a potential path forward. If you see that as being more of an escalatory act than holding Pam Bondi in contempt, your sense as you talk to your colleagues of whether or not that is one potential off ramp here.
- [27:04]
Dan Goldman
Well, it's definitely something that we're going to need to pursue. Obviously, we'll have to use a discharge petition since Mike Johnson is completely in the pocket of Donald Trump and has been in on this cover up from the very beginning. But you're starting to see more and more members. We got a discharge petition on the floor for the original bill and there's that's certainly a pathway that we can take to hold Pam Bondi in contempt and to refer this to the lawyers to file civil litigation. That's the point, though. Let's be real that Donald Trump is just trying to get this hung up in the courts because this is all part of the COVID up. And ultimately what our pressure is going to do is similar to what it did with the original bill when all but one members of the House voted for it and every senator voted for it. The reason is that the American people want to see what is in there and they are clearly covering it up. And if Donald Trump wants the Democrats to have a majority of 50 plus members in the next term and have free reign to do all sorts of oversight and accountability, which I certainly intend to do, then he can keep going down this path or he can just uncover everything, lay it out there and let the American public see what he's trying to hide.
- [28:29]
Alicia Menendez
Congressman Dan Goldman, thank you so much for joining us today. After the break, a public outing this holiday weekend for former President Barack Obama. Serving as a split screen and a reminder of how commanders in chief used to act on the job. We're gonna bring that to you next. Try angel stuff for you. Touchy. It's made by Angels soft and strong. Budget friendly. The choice is simple. A roll that feels like paradise and always at a heavenly prize. Angel soft. Angel soft. Soft and strong so it simple. Pick up a pack today. Angel soft, Soft and strong Simple.
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- [30:20]
Alicia Menendez
A timely, lessening contrast this President's Day weekend. On one hand, Donald Trump stress testing that office threatening powers not afforded to him, seizing the public's attention through the sheer force of social media rantings and ravings. And on the other, President Barack Obama doing nothing more than appearing in public, speaking on the issues and in doing so exhibiting the gravitational pull of of pure political magnetism. Start with his podcast conversation in which he addressed the blatantly racist video on social media, shared, then deleted, but never apologized for by Donald Trump.
- [30:57]
Barack Obama
First of all, I think it's important to recognize that the majority of the American people find this behavior deeply troubling. It is true that it gets attention. It's true that it's a distraction. There's this sort of clown show that's happening in social media and on television. And what is true is that there doesn't seem to be any shame about this among people who used to feel like you had to have some sort of decorum and, and, and a sense of propriety and respect for the office.
- [31:42]
Alicia Menendez
I want to bring in Democratic strategist and Columbia University professor, political analyst Basil Smichel, plus Princeton University professor and political analyst Eddie Glaud. Eddie Glaud, what a tale of two presidents.
- [31:56]
Eddie Glaud
Indeed. You know, there is a sense, it gives us a measure of how far we've come. Alicia, first of all, it's great to see you. But it's also, I think, how can I put this? And this is going to sound strange, but flip the two sides of the same fantasy wish. Those who support Donald Trump long for a world that never was. They have a nostalgic longing for a world where white folk dominate and black folk and other folk play their minor bit parts. And then I think the way in which President Obama has often figured it's this idyllic moment when the nation wasn't explicitly racist.
- [32:33]
Basil Smykeler
Right.
- [32:33]
Eddie Glaud
When we had our better angels were in evidence. And we know that moment wasn't true either or either. So, you know, it was a moment of contrast. Indeed, indeed. But I think it's two Sides of the same fantasy wish, perhaps.
- [32:49]
Alicia Menendez
Well, I just think about the words Basil Smichel that former President Obama spoke about. Right. Decorum, respect for the office. I mean, those sound like they're from a yesteryear.
- [33:04]
Basil Smykeler
Yeah. To my friend Eddie's point, decorum for the office, yes, he had it, but a lot of people who were on the opposite side of the political aisle didn't have it for him in that office. And so the question of decorum, I guess, is relative at that point. Right. And, you know, just listening to him, you long for the days of a president that could speak in a very thoughtful manner, someone who was aspirational in a sense, whose ideas and delivery, and even the way the gravitas that he carried with him, that there was something about who he is now, but certainly who he was as president. To remind you about what a president should be. I'm a member of an organization called 100 Black Men, and the motto is they are what they see. And so when you reflect on this moment and we think about Donald Trump, what are you supposed to tell young people about? How do you aspire to that? How do you explain to young people what his presidency has been like and what message that sends to the next generation that is looking at the presidency? How do you explain what you're seeing? And so I think with President Obama, it was never easy, but it was always something that you, that you, that you wanted, which is a person that really was about. That had an aspirational quality to them, I should say.
- [34:41]
Alicia Menendez
The former president was also at the NBA All Star Game. He got a standing ovation. But then there was this. Take a look.
- [34:51]
Dan Goldman
The deflection out of bounds, right?
- [34:53]
Ben Weider
Look at Barack, Mr. President, Barack Obama.
- [34:57]
Basil Smykeler
He's even cool when the ball's coming at him. No problem.
- [35:00]
Ben Weider
Look at him.
- [35:00]
Dan Goldman
Look, just cross the leg.
- [35:03]
Alicia Menendez
I mean, Eddie, I like, I, I, Eddie, your point is so thoughtful, and I totally get it. And I, but at the same time, like, we used, we used to have that.
- [35:13]
Eddie Glaud
Oh, yeah, we did it. By the way, you see how Devin Booker, my homeboy, he's from Moss Point, Mississippi, by the way, knocked Jokic out of the way. And you know, it was, it was wonder, right? But we, so, you know, you're right. It would be, it would be really nice to have a politics that, that wasn't overrun by bile and vitriol, that it would be nice to have a president that wasn't so obviously narcissistic and implicated in Epstein files. But I want us to be careful here.
- [35:42]
Ro Khanna
Right.
- [35:42]
Eddie Glaud
Because the average cost of the average price of a ticket at that NBA All Star Game was about $2,000. So, you know, in a moment of affordability crisis, that's not a representative population. And so, yes, I want us to be to see what was. But unlike my friend Basil, I don't long for it. And why am I saying that? Because we are in the midst of a five alarm fire with regards to our democracy. All hell is breaking loose around us. I don't want propriety, I don't want decorum. I want reasoned arguments to call these people out for what they're doing to our republic. And I think it's incumbent not only on president. Not only on President Obama, given his cachet, but on all of the living presidents to begin to speak out because our democracy's at stake. And, you know, I think I'll say this really quickly, Alicia. I think it's really important that if you listen to the entire video interview, Barack Obama was giving us that Nibarian political realism stuff. You know, you got moralism on the other hand, and you got political reality on the other. We're in the midst of a five alarm fire. Either you're for democracy or you're not. And we need to speak in those melodramatic, stark terms because a lot is at stake in this moment. It seems to be.
- [37:00]
Alicia Menendez
Professor Glaud, you want reasoned arguments? I got more of that coming for both of you after this break. Let's sneak it in. We'll be right back. We are back with Basil and Eddie and that reasoned argument that I promised all of you. I want you guys to take a listen to what the former president had to say in that podcast interview about Democrats.
- [37:23]
Barack Obama
They are doing such crazy stuff that it shouldn't be hard for our side to coalesce around the areas where we agree on and focus on that. And I think that that is going to happen if we are effective in winning the midterms. If we then have a robust primary for who's going to be the next Democratic president, we shouldn't be afraid of having a robust debate.
- [37:53]
Alicia Menendez
So he's talking about legislating, and then he's talking about a presidential debate. But it would seem to me that we're already seeing the early signs of Democrats coalescing around some core arguments.
- [38:05]
Basil Smykeler
Yeah, I agree with that. With particularly around affordability, which Eddie talked about before the break. We saw during the shutdown, the earlier shutdown, that there was a lot of attention on the cost of health care. So I think in some Ways, yes, there has been an emphasis on some of the policies, as long as we can get out of our own way. And one of the things he also referenced there was the age of people running for office or who are in office. That actually really does need to be part of the conversation as well. And I think that's where a lot of the tension has been. Right. It's the Institute, the establishment institution versus the movement that the party is undergoing, which, to be honest, happens every 30 years. But around the policy issues. Yeah, I think there is some coalescing around that.
- [39:00]
Alicia Menendez
All right, Eddie, I've mostly made you speak to Vibe, so I want you to take a listen to one more piece of sound from the former president.
- [39:08]
Ben Weider
Are aliens real?
- [39:10]
Barack Obama
They're real, but I haven't seen them. And they're not being kept in, what is it?
- [39:16]
Ben Weider
Area 51.
- [39:17]
Barack Obama
Area 51. There's no underground facility unless there's this enormous conspiracy and they hid it from the President of the United States.
- [39:28]
Alicia Menendez
Okay, that was not the sound I was talking about. I would love to hear your thoughts on aliens, especially since I just real quick wanna say that the former president did release a statement saying, I was trying to stick with Spirit of the Speed Round, but since it's gotten attention, let me clarify. Statistically, the universe is so vast that the odds are good there's life out there. All right, you get the idea. Do we have time to play the other piece of sound? All right, let's play it.
- [39:51]
Barack Obama
The rogue behavior of agents of the federal government is deeply concerning and dangerous. But we. We should take a moment to appreciate the extraordinary outpouring of organizing, community building, decency, not just randomly, but in a systematic, organized way. Citizens saying, this is not the America we believe in and we're going to fight back.
- [40:30]
Alicia Menendez
Eddie, take your pick there. I mean, that message of hope. Look around. Look at what your neighbor's doing. Look at the organizing. You want to touch on the aliens? You can do that too.
- [40:39]
Eddie Glaud
No, no, no, no. I think it's really important. The organizer that was, you know, the Aries foundation, that was Obama before he became a politician came out. He's right to point to the power of everyday, ordinary folk. The expression of democratic energy that we've seen, that we continue to see in the Twin Cities. The insistence on a large number of Americans that this. The behavior of ice, the behavior of the federal government isn't consistent with our understanding the power of we the people. That's important. I just, you know, I understand the measured tone, but it's not enough. Just to appreciate. It's to understand that they're going to try to steal the election. It's to understand that we're on this road to authoritarianism, that neo fascist forces, white nationalist forces, have seized the executive branch. And we need the voices of people like President Barack Obama to be even more forceful in their description of our current malaise because a lot hangs in the balance, it seems to me, the.
- [41:41]
Alicia Menendez
Urgency of this moment. Eddie Glaud, thank you so much as always for joining us. Basil Smykeler, you're going to be back with me in the next hour. After the break, an update to a shooting this afternoon in Rhode Island. Stay with us. Some breaking news to bring you out of Rhode Island. Officials just briefed on a shooting that happened this afternoon at an ice rink in Pawtucket where a high school hockey game was taking place. The police chief confirmed that two people were killed, that the shooter is dead from what appears to be a self inflicted gunshot wound. Three people are in the hospital and all are in critical condition. The police chief says that the shooting is believed to be targeted was possibly a family dispute. We're going to continue to monitor this, bring you any updates. But when we come back, how more and more Americans are saying enough to what the Trump administration and ICE are doing to their communities and now to their children. We've got much more to come right after this quick break.
- [42:41]
Ro Khanna
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