← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
“Shattering the Western Alliance”
00:42:23
Alicia Menendez is in for Nicolle Wallace, covering the text messages between Norway’s Prime Minister and Donald Trump amid the threats to annex Greenland. After Norway’s PM asked to take the temperature down, Donald Trump insinuated that due to Norway’s lack of support in giving Trump the Nobel Peace Prize, he was no longer interested in pursuing peace.
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- [00:00]
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Visit LifeLock.com SpecialOffer terms apply as President continues implementing his ambitious agenda. Follow along with the MSNow newsletter Project 47. You'll get weekly updates sent straight to your inbox with expert analysis on the administration's latest actions and how they're affecting the American people.
- [00:48]
News Commentator
The American people are basically telling the President that they are not okay with any of this.
- [00:52]
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Alicia Menendez
Hi everyone, it's four o' clock here in Washington, D.C. i'm Alicia Menendez in for Nicole Wallace. Donald Trump this weekend proving that the truth is often stranger than fiction, saying that he wants to annex Greenland and shatter the Western alliance that has been the foundation of US national security for decades, all because he did not win the Nobel Peace Prize. That admission was in a text message to the Prime Minister of Norway on Sunday after the prime minister urged Trump to take the temperature down and offered to talk the day before. Donald Trump had just announced tariffs of 10% on European allies who were rushing to defend Greenland from the United States, set to kick in February 1st. Norway's Prime Minister texting Sunday afternoon, quote Dear Mr. President, Dear Donald, on the contact across the Atlantic on Greenland, Gaza, Ukraine and your tariff announcement yesterday. You know our position on these issues, but we believe we should all work to take this down and de escalate. So much is happening around us where we need to stand together. We are proposing a call with you later today, both of us or separately, give us a hint of what you prefer. Alex and Jonas Less than 30 minutes later, Trump writes this quote Dear Jonas, Considering your country decided not to give me the Nobel Peace Prize for having stopped eight wars plus, I no longer feel an obligation to think purely of peace, although it will always be predominant, but can now think about what is good and proper for the United States of America. Denmark cannot protect that land from Russia or China and why do they have a right of ownership anyway? There are no written documents. It's only that a boat landed there hundreds of years ago, but we had boats landing there also. I have done more for NATO than any other person since its founding. And now NATO should do something for the United States. The world is not secure unless we have complete and total control of Greenland. Thank you, President djt. PBS reports that that message was forwarded to several European ambassadors, meaning that this. It wasn't a private conversation that was leaked. This is the official position of the President of the United States. Now we read the exchange for you in full because it's important at this point to understand exactly what Donald Trump is doing and why he is doing it. He has started a spat with our allies over a territory where the US Already has a military presence. Then he escalated it because he did not get a prize. He covets his view of America's place in the world defined only by his ego. And the United States, well, we are set to pay the price. The Washington Post reports that Trump's Greenland threat has, quote, sparked the greatest transatlantic crisis in generations. That European allies are fed up, maybe ready to inflict economic pain on the US from that reporting, quote. After months of trying to keep Trump onside, European policymakers are weigh options to retaliate. The continent's top leaders still stress they would much rather avoid an escalation. Trump's threats are fueling a growing chorus of calls from lawmakers and politicians for European leaders to stand up for the continent and fire back. A policy crisis of Donald Trump's own making is where we start today. Joining me at the table, Ambassador Bill Taylor. He is a distinguished fellow with the Atlantic Council's eurasia Center, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. And Lt. Gen. Mark Kirtling is here. He served as the commanding general of the US Army. It is good to see you both. Ambassador Taylor, the Washington Post says the greatest transatlantic crisis in generations. Do you agree, Felicia?
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This would be a disaster for transatlantic cooperation and working together that has been so important. And General Herling can talk about this in much greater detail than I, but that NATO alliance is what gives us strength and it's what allows us to do. What we're trying to do is defend Greenland. So this would be a disaster if this were.
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Alicia Menendez
General Hartling, your name was invoked. So speak to me about what this crisis means for the US Military, for national security.
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Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling
Well, Ambassador Taylor's a good friend and he speaks too highly of me. But it means a significant loss of confidence from our allies because the letter reflects truthfully a worldview in which sovereignty is negotiable, alliances are conditional, and territory can be claimed by personal assertion rather than law. There are laws and actions which dictate this kind of stuff. And Truthfully, I spent about a third of my four decades long career in Europe, worked with every One of the 49 countries that are in that region. And they are all taking this with just surprise and, and anger. And it eliminates the trust within our alliances. And that trust has been earned over the past 70 years by exercises, deployments after deployments, even disagreements. But it all has developed a shared framework with the largest security alliance in the world. And it all was geared toward working stronger together. We've lost that. That foundation is now strained and it's at the breaking point.
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Alicia Menendez
So with that in mind, General Herndling, let's talk through the potential scenarios here. If the US Insists on Greenland, they put up economic pressure, even the military action, your sense of what comes next?
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Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling
Well, I'm going to look at it from the military perspective, Alicia, because that's where I worked. But I don't claim to be an expert in treaty law, but I do know that the Constitution gives the President the power to make treaties with advice and consent of the Senate under Article 2. Here's the interesting part, the Supremacy Clause, Article 6 gives the Senate the opportunity to sign those treaties, and they did way back in 1949, after Truman actually was one of the ones that negotiated this treaty with the European, with the 12 European nations at the time. It's 32 now. But it was ratified by the US Senate about a month later in 1949 by a vote of 82 to 3. So given that the US is bound by both international and domestic law, this isn't something the President can just say, this is where it gets into the military aspect of this. If the military is ordered to do something with Greenland, I would suggest there's certainly an illegality associated with that, that you're asking the military to violate both international and domestic law unless those laws are changed. And as a military commander, that's what I think. Anyone that might be commanding troops that are considering to go into Greenland better think twice about the legalities of attacking a country that's part of an alliance.
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Alicia Menendez
That's the military angle. Speak to me about it diplomatically.
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LifeLock Advertiser
So diplomatically, it's what we've talked about that is the importance of having the rest of NATO with us when we're trying to do things around the world. And what we're trying to do right now, much more important than this issue with Greenland, is keep the Russians, get the Russians out of Ukraine or stop the Russians in Ukraine. And that was to have been the diplomatic discussion this week in Davos. President Zelenskyy and President Trump were going to have a conversation with others, and that now has been at least sidelined. I hope it still happens. But the focus is now on this less important. This is the Greenland issue, is not the crisis, not the issue. It's really Russia and Ukraine.
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Alicia Menendez
What do you think Russia is thinking as they watch this unfold?
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LifeLock Advertiser
Russia is loving this. Russia would love to see and has always tried to get a problem, a division within NATO, and they've always failed. They've tried and failed. Now this division is a possibility, is a real possibility, and that has got to make them happy.
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Alicia Menendez
I just want to underline the fact that none of this is necessary. And by that, I mean even the ends that Donald Trump imagines, which is more American troops in Greenland, extended mining rights in Greenland. The Danes have effectively said, we are willing to honor the 1951 agreement. You are welcome to bring more troops. We can expand your mining rights. That does not seem sufficient to him. I mean, I know he's spoken about sort of psychologically feeling as though ownership is important here. Then you had this tell today with him texting about the Nobel Peace Prize. What do you think this is actually about? The size is an answer in and of itself.
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LifeLock Advertiser
The size and an answer. The size, sadly, is an answer. But the security aspect has to be important. He raises it. It may not be the main thing, but that is the issue that General Hurling was just talking about. That's the issue that NATO has can do best. If we're really concerned about the Russians and the Chinese and the Chinese attacking or trying to take over Greenland. NATO is the answer. NATO is the answer.
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Alicia Menendez
Okay, so, General, if it is not about that, then what do you believe it is about?
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Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling
Yeah, it's tough to say, Alicia, but I'm going to just reinforce what the ambassador just said. When Russia attacked Ukraine, you know, I had a conversation with Ambassador Taylor that I thought there were five strategic objectives by Mr. Putin. Four of them had to do with Ukraine, one of them had to do with dividing NATO even further. He wanted to see how NATO would react to that attack in 2022. And early on, we actually reacted really well. NATO came together, they increased their funding. It was because of Russia, not because of anything Mr. Trump did. And we were really acting as an alliance.
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Congresswoman Madeleine Dean
And.
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Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling
But in the last 10 months, that alliance has gone south. And NATO, as the ambassador said, or I'm sorry, Russia, as the ambassador said, is applauding this. They love this because it is damaging the alliance of NATO, not just with Russia, but as you just said with China as well. When you have the President or the Prime Minister of, the President of Canada going to China and having discussions with President Xi about shifting, you know, ev vehicle manufacturing, that that tells me it's another break in the alliance. Canada is part of the NATO alliance. But you're also seeing Europe saying we can't trust the United States anymore. We can't pass them intelligence. We can't give them the kinds of things we always have over the last 70 years. And that's going to be problematic in the near future because it's going to advantage Russia.
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Alicia Menendez
Ambassador, this morning I was rereading the 2025 National Security Strategy Memo. It's available on the White House. Anybody who wants to read it to try to contextualize what it is we are watching in the larger thinking of this White House as it relates to national security. Let me read you just part of that memo. They write, after years of neglect, the United States will reassert and enforce the Monroe Doctrine to restore American preeminence in the Western Hemisphere, to protect our homeland and our access to key geographies throughout the region. We will deny non hemisphere competitors the ability to position forces or other threatening capabilities or to own or control strategically vital assets in our hemisphere. This trump corollary to the Monroe Doctrine is a common sense and potent restoration of American power and priorities consistent with American security interests. What is the problem with this idea of just hemispheric thinking and thinking of the entire Western Hemisphere? As I'm sure you remember the meme that the White House posted.
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This notion of a sphere of influence, ours is the Western Hemisphere, suggests that China has one, suggests that Russia might have one. Spheres of influence have a bad history. They lead to bad things. They intersect and they conflict and that leads to war. That's not what we're after. What we're after is a system where, where we respect the sovereignty of nations of Denmark and of Ukraine. That's how to get to a peaceful solution.
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Alicia Menendez
General Hartling, I wonder as a military commander, what it says to you when the President of the United States says that peace is no longer the sole ambition.
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Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling
Well, when someone who hasn't gone to war says that they are asking for problems, as the ambassador just said, you know, the Monroe Doctrine was not about controlling this hemisphere. It was geared towards stopping imperialism from the European nations inside this hemisphere. It wasn't about ownership, it was about protection. So even the read of the Monroe Doctrine is wrong by the current administration. But the other thing I'd say when you're Talking about war or peace not being the primary reasons. You know, what I've learned over my years in the military, Alicia, is that families just want to be safe. They want to have a job, they want to protect their children, they want to live in harmony. And that may sound like a lot of fluffiness, but truthfully, that's what every citizen of the world wants. So when you're not caring about whether or not peace continues and you're asking for war, which, as the ambassador says, is exactly what you're going to get when you put up these barriers and you continue to invade other countries, like Russia did with Ukraine, and there have been tens of thousands of deaths. You know, the individual that says something like that isn't on the front lines, he or she is not suffering the death or the chaos or the trauma. So I'm sorry, but when I read statements like that coming out of the administration, it's coming from people who have not been there, who have not seen the elephant, as Rudyard Kipling once said.
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Alicia Menendez
Well, and it sets up a false dichotomy where fundamentally, the argument that they are making inside this administration is that there has to be a choice between peace and economic dominance, as though the United States, for a long period of time, has not enjoyed both.
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LifeLock Advertiser
And you have pointed out we can have that. This doesn't require forces. It doesn't require tariffs. We can have that. We can have that peace, as well as the economic development in Greenland that's there for the asking. So this, as you pointed out earlier, Lisa, this is unnecessary.
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Alicia Menendez
General Henry, I just want to come back to something that you said earlier, because it is sticking with me, this question of the legality of orders, your sense of, of how that plays out, how that gets litigated.
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Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling
Well, it's playing out in a variety of ways right now, Alicia. And it's just what is legal, what is required under the rule of law and great societies, and I've been in countries, and I'm sure the ambassador has, too, where rule of law is not premier. And in those societies, there's chaos, there's trauma, there's unfairness. And when you start taking away that rule of law, not only in international affairs, but in domestic policy issues, you're only asking for trouble, and especially with the military, because the military takes that solemn vote, oath, excuse me, to support and defend the Constitution of the United States that is based on laws. That's what we do. We do not suffer from a dictator or a king or authoritarians. When you look around the world, countries that do that are not running very smoothly. It's the democracies that are sometimes very tangled, but when they live by the rules of law and justice and fairness, it contributes to that piece that we're talking about that some people may not think is all that important.
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Alicia Menendez
Congressional Republicans had an opportunity to rein in this president in the form of their War Powers Act. You had a few Republicans at the last minute who absconded. If he's not going to listen to Congress, who is it that he is going to listen to? Who is it possible that could still walk this back?
- [17:38]
LifeLock Advertiser
Congress has a voice still. They may gain it, they may regain it. The American people have a view. When you ask the American people, they don't want to see military in our military, General Hertling's military in Greenland. No, the American people will have a view that will, that will get through to President Trump.
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Alicia Menendez
It's amazing the number of answers that come back to the American people making their voice heard. Ambassador Bill Taylor, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thank you both so much for starting us off. When we come back and talk with one of the lawmakers who was just in Denmark to try and take down the temperature. Also still to come for us today, the Trump administration appears poised to send troops into the streets of a US City. We're going to go live to Minneapolis, where protests continued despite the threats of even further federal escalation. Plus Governor Tim Walls calling the investigations into him and Mayor Jacob Fry an authoritarian tactic. We'll look at the latest attempts at weaponizing the Department of Justice. And later, remember in 2016 when Ted Cruz questioned the judgment and temperament of a President Trump and imagined we could wake up one morning and he, he would have nuked one of our NATO allies? Well, that was then why Ted Cruz and many others in the Republican Party are backing Trump on acquiring Greenland. We're going to get to all those stories and more when Deadline White House continues right after this. Flowers die in three days. Matching underwear from Meundies. That's a gift that lasts. Meundies creates matching prints for couples and friends. Same adorable designs in different cuts for each of you. All made from their signature ultramodal fabric that feels impossibly soft. With 90,000 five star reviews. Me undies, these matching prints are the perfect gift. Valentine's Day is February 14th, so don't wait. Get exclusive deals up to 50% off at MeUndies.com sxmcodesxm that's MeUndies.com sxmCOdesXM the.
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- [19:57]
Alicia Menendez
The US military deployed on the streets of America.
- [20:00]
Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling
Whole communities targeted for removal. And when accountability finally came knocking, the burn order to cover it all up.
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- [20:14]
Alicia Menendez
It's the question on the lips of almost everyone in Washington, D.C. and in capitals across Europe, is Donald Trump serious? Here's what Treasury Secretary Scott Bessen had to say about it on Meet the Press. I want to delve into everything that you said, but I just want to ask you, big picture, is this a negotiating tactic, Mr. Secretary, or is President Trump serious about annexing Greenland?
- [20:38]
LifeLock Advertiser
President Trump strongly believes that we cannot outsource our security because, Kristen, let me tell you what will happen. And it might not be next year, might not be in five years, but down the road. This fight for the Arctic is real. We would keep our NATO, our NATO guarantees and if there were an attack on Greenland from Russia, from some other area, we would get dragged in. So better now, peace through strength. Make it part of the United States and there will not be a conflict because the United States, right now, we are the hottest country in the world. We are the strongest country in the world. Europeans project weakness. The US Projects strength.
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Alicia Menendez
What is the national emergency that justifies these new slate of tariffs?
- [21:26]
LifeLock Advertiser
The national emergency is avoiding a national emergency.
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News Commentator
That it is.
- [21:31]
LifeLock Advertiser
It is a strategic decision by the president. This is a geopolitical decision. And he is able to use the economic might of the US to avoid a hot war. So why wouldn't, why wouldn't we do that?
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Alicia Menendez
Let's bring in Democratic Congressman Madeline Dean of Pennsylvania. She is a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. She was part of the group of lawmakers who traveled to Denmark over the weekend. Congressman, first, just your response to what we just heard there from Secretary Besant.
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Congresswoman Madeleine Dean
I'm disappointed. The secretary knows better. The reason there is a national emergency is there may be a national emergency that is not a legal predicate and he knows it. And this idea of peace through strength, the president wants to blow up NATO and that represents strength. The president has made a mistaken statement, which is that Denmark cannot protect Greenland in its strategic importance. He makes the mistake of forgetting Denmark is a part of NATO. It is NATO that will protect Greenland. We, as part of NATO, will protect Greenland. And we are here. I want you to know that we just came from Copenhagen. A delegation of 10 members, members from the Senate, from the House, Republicans and Democrats, it was a really robust group who wanted to be on this trip that you might have noticed, was put together very quickly at the last minute to get into Copenhagen and to meet with the leaders there. And what we know is they're baffled. They're absolutely baffled. Why would their strongest ally, the United States of America, a 225 year relationship, 75 years, founding members of NATO. Why would the United States turn on Greenland? As you know, Greenland is a territory, it's a sovereign territory, part of the Kingdom of Denmark. And so when we met with Greenlandic members of Parliament, members of Parliament from Denmark, the prime ministers of both Greenland and Denmark, they said, we do not understand it. We are your greatest ally. We fought and died alongside you in Afghanistan, in Iraq. There is no immediate strategic impediment or threat to Greenland right now. That's something we wanted to find out. But the notion that the President needs to simply have it, that he simply needs to possess it, is such. It doesn't make any sense to me and it certainly doesn't make any sense to our allies.
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Alicia Menendez
So that is what you heard from our allies. They are baffled. What did you tell them in response?
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Congresswoman Madeleine Dean
We told them, Republicans and Democrats, House and Senate, we are your ally, we are your friend. We have been for 75 years of peace through Europe, peace through strength. And we will go home and continue to convey to the members of Congress. After all, it is Congress who has the constitutional authority for military action. We should never, ever take military action against Greenland and its people, its population, many of them indigenous, its beautiful culture. I think it's just wrong headed. And I wish those around the President could remind him that it is wrong headed. It wouldn't make any fiscal sense. Number one, the place is not for sale. Number two, if it were for sale, it would be $700 billion or more. What does the United States need investment in? Ourselves. The other thing that we met with business leaders, we met with Parliament leaders, we met with foreign ministers, and the business leaders said, you're our strongest trading partner. What is it that we have done? They literally said, alicia, we have always considered you our big brother. We cannot understand how our big brother has turned on us. The final thing that I want to make sure you know is that the Greenlandic parliamentarians said to us, we have children going to bed at night, afraid, afraid of the United States of America, our greatest ally. It is heartbreaking, and it must never happen.
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Alicia Menendez
Heartbreaking, baffling. As you spoke to our allies, are they talking at all about those text messages where the President of the United States says, well, since I wasn't awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, I'm no longer thinking predominantly of peace?
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Congresswoman Madeleine Dean
Yes, that happened. In the timeframe that we got here, that had not happened. Both the tariff threat, the 10%, and then the 25% threat followed by, I have to admit to you, a journalist showed me that today, that tweet by the President about he doesn't any longer have an obligation to peace because he didn't win a prize. That's not a leader that I even recognize. It's not a leader that I understand. And so when I was shown that tweet, I actually thought, that can't be true. That cannot be from the President of the United States. And then when it was confirmed, it was from the President of the United States. We met tonight with the President of the European Commission, and they are baffled also, but they're fortified. The one thing they said, and I hope the President hears this, is that the President criticized NATO, the EU for not investing enough in security. And you know what they've done over the past three years, and largely because of Ukraine, their belief in Ukraine and making sure Ukraine is free from Russia and Russia's invasion and slaughter, frankly, and taking of children, they said, you know what, the President was right on that. We needed to invest more. And we have, and we will continue to do that. And so I hope that we have conveyed to the EU and to the NATO allies that we are your friend, we will remain your friend, and we will convey that as we go back to Congress. Because we, Congress, must exercise our Article 1 authority as a member of Appropriations and of Foreign Affairs. That's the message we're going to take back. And I believe many Republican members, both House and Senate, will be on our side.
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Alicia Menendez
Do you think it is possible that we are headed for a constitutional crisis here?
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Congresswoman Madeleine Dean
Congressman, I think we're already in a set of constitutional dilemmas. I've had the privilege of serving in Congress for seven years now, sadly, coming in and serving through two impeachments, having one of the saddest, highest honors of my career being an impeachment manager. Impeachment, too. So our Constitution has been challenged. But you know what? I've seen the fabric of our Constitution hold firm, and I believe it will hold firm against these extraordinary challenges to the rule of law, to our Article 1 power to what should be the judicial third branch of government and what they should be doing to uphold the rule of law. Remember that the president, the Article 2 power, he's supposed to make sure that the laws are faithfully executed. He's not supposed to take over the powers of the purse or the power to declare war. I believe, I hope that people will surround the president and say, Mr. President, this makes absolutely no sense for the United States of America to somehow possess an ally, a sovereign nation. It makes no fiscal sense. It makes no NATO sense. It makes no world peace or prosperity sense. I hope cooler heads will prevail as he comes to Switzerland this week.
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Alicia Menendez
It is bullying masquerading as statecraft. Congressman Madeline Dean, thank you so much for joining us today. After the break, the Trump administration amping up its aggressive posture in Minneapolis. The very latest there where protests have been continuing. Stay with us.
- [29:47]
LifeLock Advertiser
As President Trump continues implementing his ambitious agenda. Follow along with the MSNow newsletter, Project 47. You'll get weekly updates sent straight to your inbox with expert analysis on the administration's latest actions and how they're affecting the American people.
- [30:04]
News Commentator
The American people are basically telling the president that they are not okay with any of this.
- [30:08]
LifeLock Advertiser
Sign up for the Project 47 newsletter at Ms. Now. Project 47.
- [30:18]
Alicia Menendez
Donald Trump appears ready to further escalate the situation in Minneapolis where already we've seen 3,000 federal officers deployed putting residents on edge in the tragic deadly shooting of Renee Goode almost two weeks ago. The AP reports that 1,500 troops are now on standby for possible deployment to Minnesota. Defense official telling Ms. Now that the order went out on Friday for the active duty soldiers to pack their bags one day after Trump threatened to invoke the Insurrection act to quell the sustained protests against ICE operations. That would be an extraordinary escalation and a first from a US president acting without a state's consent since 1965. In response, Minnesota's Governor Tim Walls is readying hundreds of National Guard troops focused on, quote, protecting life, property and First Amendment rights. Joining me today, former field office director for ICE Enforcement and Removal Operations, Darius Reeves and political analyst, columnist for the Boston Globe and writer of the newsletter the Gavel, Kimberly Atkins Stores with me at the table. But first, let's bring in our reporter on the ground in Minneapolis, Rosa Flores. Rosa, what do we know about these active duty soldiers preparing for deployment?
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Rosa Flores
Felicia, what we know is that this is the 11th Airborne Division out of Alaska, and that it's two battalions and each battalion is about 500 soldiers. Now, they're known as the Arctic Angels because they specialize in operations in cold weather, which would be very necessary here in Minneapolis. Here in Minnesota right now, it's about zero degrees. Now, from checking their website, you also learn that they were activated during World War II and that they had a major role in the Pacific theater. Now, those are active duty troops. And this is important to note because as you mentioned, Governor Tim Walls activated the National Guard here through executive order after the death of Rene Goode. And over the weekend, he mobilized some troops alongside the Minnesota State Patrol for traffic support only. And they noted, Alicia, this is important to note that these National Guard members are not on city streets. And if and when they are in city streets, that they will be wearing yellow reflective vests to make sure that they are distinguished from any other troops or any other agencies that are in Minneapolis.
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Alicia Menendez
Imagine public service actually having a face and denoting costumers. What are you hearing from people in Minnesota as they listen and hear and prepare for these new threats?
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Rosa Flores
You know, there's a lot of protesting still going on, Alicia. There's a lot of people who want to use their First Amendment rights. And, you know, I talked to some protesters who said that they just feel so much anger and so much rage, and they're trying to direct that anger in a positive way to try to speak out for a lot of the people who are too afraid to be out on the streets. And then we're also seeing Minnesotans open their hearts and their wallets. I talked to a pastor who said that, you know, in a few days he got 700 volunteers to deliver food to about 2,000 families who are too afraid to leave their homes to go buy groceries. And so he says that they delivered groceries to moms with young children, to pregnant women, to the elderly who haven't left their homes, some of them in weeks. So much so, he says they're not just getting requests for food now. They're getting requests for rental assistance, because the person from the home that used to go out and work, they're not working anymore because they're too afraid. And I've talked to people who've told me that they just can't go to work because they're very afraid. They're afraid that they're going to be picked up by ice. And then the last thing I'll mention is I talked to another faith leader who said that for her, the most emotional thing, Alicia, is the family separation. She says that the stories that she hears is that sometimes children are left at the bus stop and their parents are taken by ice, and those children are left alone. And so there's a lot of pain, there's a lot of anxiety. And Minnesotans coming out not just to protest, not just to exercise a First Amendment right, but also to care with their hearts.
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Alicia Menendez
Marissa, I am struck by the fact that I have seen you offer almost this exact report from Louisiana when this sweep was moving through New Orleans. Reminder that this is not isolated to Minnesota, that we have seen this cruelty all across this country. Rosa Flores for us in Minneapolis. Rosa, thank you so much for joining us. Darius, I want to bring you and Kim into this conversation. Both your reaction to this threat from the president to invoke the Insurrection act, specifically on this question of whether or not that makes Americans safer.
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LifeLock Advertiser
You want me to go first?
- [35:07]
Alicia Menendez
Yeah. Darius, you first.
- [35:12]
LifeLock Advertiser
It's heartbreaking to see. It's heartbreaking to hear. I understand it to the point where if there are federal facilities that are needed, protected and defended, for lack of a better word, then I understand that in that sense. Well, overall, for targeted enforcement operations.
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News Commentator
It.
- [35:39]
LifeLock Advertiser
Seems that the wheels are falling off. It's just terrible. Once again, I'm going to stress that the rhetoric on both sides needs to be tampered down. I think overall, we can do a much better socialization if it's truly targeted, of the individuals that are being targeted. Although I hear a lot of people say this individual has lived here for a certain amount of years and has never committed a crime in this country. But that doesn't mean that they have not committed a crime in their home country, and there's an actual Interpol warrant for that individual. So there just seems to be a lack of communication. I would rather see more engagement with the state and local jurisdictions, and I would rather see these operations maintain targeted and be safe. And people are going to have to. We're going to have to have some serious conversations.
- [36:44]
Congresswoman Madeleine Dean
Right.
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Alicia Menendez
I mean, I think part of the reason that it is difficult to assess is because we've all seen so much video footage now of the way in which ICE has conducted its operations, whether that was the shooting of Renee Goode, whether that was video we've seen from other parts of the country where they have been pulling people out of their cars, where they have been tackling people to the ground, a lack of context, a lack of humanity, a lack of understanding, and a real sense that they are not doing this by the book.
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News Commentator
Right. I mean, if you Add what we've seen with our own eyes in that coverage that you've seen that is in all of our social media feeds. When you add reporting like the report from the Wall Street Journal that says there has been an essentially a quot put on these ICE officials as to how many criminals they're supposed to be arresting. But when you actually look at the numbers of immigrants in the greater Minneapolis area and you do the math, given the number of them who may have committed crimes in the United States, which is what? Yes, they may have committed crimes otherwise, but under our law, it's about who commits crimes in the United States, that there literally aren't enough people to make those quotas. So instead you have these roving stops based on how someone looks come to be known as Kavanaugh, stops based on the Supreme Court order that are stopping people who are citizens, people who are indigenous people, all kinds of folks, because these are also ICE agents often coming who aren't from Minneapolis. They don't know the community. They don't know what is going on. So this is just a problem that was created by the federal government, and now they're reacting as if now they have to come in and quell a situation. Minneapolis didn't have this issue until the surge of ICE that is the cause of this. And now you have a situation where you have the state trying to mobilize people while the federal government is mobilizing in a completely different way. How are the residents supposed to know which official is safe and which one is not? It's a mess. It makes everything less safe. And this is all the doing of the administration.
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Alicia Menendez
Mass indeed. Kimberly, Darius, you're both sticking with me. After the break, Kristi Noem disputing her own agency's ICE data on live television. Stay with us. Every single individual has committed a crime, but 70% of them have committed or have charges against them on violent crimes and crimes that they are charged with or have been convicted of. It's not 70%. Yes, it is. It absolutely is 70%. Okay. Well, our reporting is that 47%, based on your agency's own numbers, 47% have criminal convictions against them. But let's talk about the other numbers again. Absolutely. We'll get you the correct numbers so you can use them in the future. Well, that's from your agency. That was Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem over the weekend insisting the administration has kept its promise to go after the worst of the worst, claiming the violent criminal arrest numbers are far greater than what's been widely Reported and widely disseminated, you know, by her own agency. We are back with Darius and with Kimberly. Interestingly, given sort of the number of people in the administration who are behind this deportation machine, whether it is Stephen Miller or Tom Homan, that the articles of impeachment are being drafted against Kristino.
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News Commentator
Yes. I mean, look, just in that exchange alone, the fact that the gaslighting that takes place, which we've seen across this administration when they're talking about criminals and immigrants, I still question that 47% number because for decades and decades and decades, the data has shown, federal data has shown prior to this administration that you are far less. People who are here, particularly without legal status, are far less to commit a crime for fear that they would be deported than American citizens. So I am also looking at that original number askance. But when somebody is basically telling you, don't believe your eyes, don't believe what you hear, don't believe reality, just believe what we say and. And nothing adds up, that is a dereliction of duty. I am not surprised that articles of impeachment have been brought up. I think other cabinet members would have had that for doing less. But at this point, Congress is so, you know, the administration does not fear Congress at all. They believe that the Republicans and the majority will protect them. And that is giving them carte blanche to not only carry out these sort of raids that are really destroying communities, but giving them the ability to go on television and just lie to the public's face.
- [41:16]
Alicia Menendez
There's where we have seen bad behavior from mice. What do you think is the best check from congressional authorities?
- [41:25]
LifeLock Advertiser
Yeah, investigations have to be had. If you have alleged criminal activity involving the agents, that's going to be an inspector general. And from there, if they deemed it not criminal, then it'll go down to the Office of Personal Responsibility and in groups like that. So I want to make a very a distinction here. Everyone keeps saying ISIS is a uniformity. ICE consists of only two law enforcement entities, Enforcement Removal Operations and Homeland Security Investigations. Confidence in Border Protection consists of two entities, Office of Field Operations and Border Patrol, all of whom have various different degrees of training and all of whom, as it appears, are operating on the streets of Minneapolis. More so, the Border Patrol has a very distinctive mission and how they operate. And I've said this for decades, that they shouldn't be the lead agency in internal. Not internal, but interior beyond 100 miles of the border. They should be followed under the direction of either. If it's going to be a Title eight of the United States code, immigration enforcement. They should be under the guidance of the local Enforcement Removal Operations Field office or the Homeland Security investigations. So. You're seeing what you're seeing Based upon the training that's had coming up, the ranks and enforcement Removal operations. We prided ourselves on being known as the silent service. I remember I spent time in the Buffalo, New York field office, a border city. And people had no idea who ICE was. And it was, there was, it was pride. There was pride in that. Now it's just, it's, it's in your face and it's, it's, it's, it's really boiled over and it's, it's, and it's tearing the law enforcement communities apart. Like I said, we have to have some form of relationship with the locals. Yeah, man. And this is, you know, this is, this has gotten out of control.
- [43:59]
Alicia Menendez
The Buffalo field office, indeed, the Buffalo field office. A reminder that the US does in fact have more than one border. Darius Reeves, thank you so much for joining us today. Kimberly Atkinstore, you're staying with me through the next hour. Up next, a rare display of public support. We're going to tell you what the Fed chair says is going to do as Trump seeks to stack the Fed with political loyalists. Stay with us. Fed Chair Jerome Powell is making a high profile appearance this week after publicly bucking the Trump administration over the Justice Department's investigation into him. We can report Powell will attend Supreme Court oral arguments in Fed Governor Lisa Cook's case fighting Trump's attempt to fire her. That's according to a person familiar with the situation. Powell's attendance would be highly unusual in a much more public show of support for Cook than he has previously shown her. But it follows his own extraordinary statement last week calling out the Trump administration's investigation for what it political intimidation. Gonna be back watching that on Wednesday after the break why Republicans won't stand up to Trump over Greenland. I'm gonna sneak in a quick break. We'll be right back home to the Rachel Maddow Show.
- [45:11]
News Commentator
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- [45:21]
Alicia Menendez
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News Commentator
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- [45:28]
Alicia Menendez
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- [45:30]
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