“Should JD Vance get moving boxes?”

Summary

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Podcast Summary: “Should JD Vance get moving boxes?”

Podcast: Deadline: White House
Host: Nicolle Wallace
Air Date: November 21, 2025

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Overview:

This episode centers on the extraordinary and unexpected meeting between President Donald Trump and New York City mayor-elect Alek “Zoran” Mamdani in the Oval Office. Despite their previously adversarial relationship and frequent verbal attacks, the meeting was marked by surprising cordiality, mutual praise, and a focus on shared priorities such as affordability and crime in New York City. The panel, featuring Rev. Al Sharpton, political analysts, and journalists, dissect the political implications of this détente, Trump’s unpredictable allegiances, and the wider context of Trump’s escalating rhetoric toward political opponents.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Trump–Mamdani Oval Office Meeting

• Unexpected Cordiality:
  The episode kicks off with live reaction to the publicized meeting. After months of harsh words, Trump and Mamdani appeared surprisingly friendly.

  • Trump deferred to Mamdani repeatedly on NYC priorities, lavished him with praise, and dismissed past smear campaigns.
  • Mamdani, for his part, maintained his positions while being cordial, notably not walking back previous criticisms of Trump (including calling him a fascist).
  • Both agreed on the need to improve affordability and livability in NYC.

• Panel Reactions:
  The roundtable, including Al Sharpton, Molly Zhang, and John Heilemann, expressed shock at the warmth Trump displayed.

  • Sharpton noted that Trump often gravitates toward winners, saying, "Donald Trump is one that likes a political athlete. And a winner." (16:10)
  • Analysts speculated that Trump’s embrace of Mamdani could be indicative of his attempt to align with what’s popular given his political vulnerabilities.

Memorable Moments & Quotes:

• “One of the things I would love to be someday is the mayor of New York City … being the mayor of New York … you’re really at a turning point one way or the other. It could go great or it can go in a different direction.” - Donald Trump (03:28)
• “He did not change what he was saying he wanted to do in the city. … It was all Trump [who changed].” - Rev. Al Sharpton (16:34)
• “I consider myself the next mayor of New York City, and I keep my horizons firmly on New York City…” - Alek Mamdani (03:17)

2. Shifting Political Allegiances and Strategy

• Trump’s ‘Winner’ Mentality:
  Trump’s enthusiastic endorsement of Mamdani is source of analysis—he appears to want to be associated with “winners,” regardless of past allegiances.

  • “If another guy got ahead in the third round, he was rooting for him.” - Rev. Al Sharpton on Trump’s boxing match mentality (16:11)
  • Analysts highlighted that Trump’s praise had less to do with ideology, more with aligning himself with perceived strength and popularity.

• Impact on GOP & MAGA Messaging:
  Trump undercuts the Republican attack line branding Mamdani as a “jihadist,” notably undermining Rep. Elise Stefanik’s prior smear campaign.

  • “He’s never said that about JD Vance or Marco Rubio.” - Rev. Al Sharpton (33:33)
  • Panelists described this as “politically seismic,” robbing the GOP of a key midterm narrative. (24:08)

• Cautionary Notes:
  While the mood is conciliatory, most panelists caution that Trump is notoriously capricious and will likely turn on Mamdani if it becomes politically expedient.

  • “This is not a political marriage … But would I bet on this sticking only because I know Donald Trump? I wouldn’t bet on that.” - Rev. Al Sharpton (13:39)
  • “Mamdani has not governed a day yet.” - Nicolle Wallace (26:28)

Memorable Moments & Quotes:

• “Donald Trump does not get married politically and they had a good date. That does not mean this is a political marriage.” - Rev. Al Sharpton (13:39)
• “Trump just gave one more example of how what he says isn’t true.” - Journalist (21:02)

3. Trump’s Escalating Rhetoric Against Political Opponents

• Threats and Dangerous Language:
  The second half of the episode pivots to Trump’s ongoing threats and violent rhetoric toward Democratic lawmakers—especially veterans and national security officials.
  • Trump repeatedly makes references to treason and capital punishment for political enemies, refusing to walk back threats even when prompted by Fox News’s Brian Kilmeade.
  • The network made the editorial decision not to replay threatening voicemails received by Rep. Jason Crow, highlighting the seriousness of Trump’s rhetoric.

Memorable Moments & Quotes:

• “I’m not threatening them, but I think they’re in serious trouble. In the old days, it was death.” - Donald Trump (36:55)
• “He never denounced even the idea that these threats were coming. … he missed an opportunity or he intended to not save what he could have said to defuse a very dangerous situation.” - Rev. Al Sharpton (37:35)
• “These are not just people that are in the Senate or an opposing party. They serve the country. I mean, some of them war heroes. And you are just letting this go like they’re guilty of sedition, you who never served in the military and that in the old days they would have been shot.” - Rev. Al Sharpton (45:27)

4. The Panel’s Reflections and Broader Political Consequences

• Media & Political Fallout:
  Panelists emphasize that Trump, feeling vulnerable and “on his heels,” is shifting strategies rapidly, which destabilizes Republican messaging and could have major implications for the 2026 midterms.

  • “I think the takeaway … is that Donald Trump totally deferred to Mandani. Mandani said, ‘we don’t agree on a lot, but we can agree on this.’ … Trump threw Miller and everybody else under the bus.” - Rev. Al Sharpton (32:08)
  • “His political survival now hinges on pulling the mask down on all the BS that MAGA has been smearing Democrats with.” - Journalist (26:12)

• Cynicism About Lasting Impact:
  The table discusses whether Trump’s praise for Mamdani represents lasting change or a fleeting “lovefest.” Most agree a reversion is likely if political winds shift.

  • “I just don’t want to … think that somehow Trump will feel like he’s bound by consistency of what he said here.” - Nicolle Wallace (27:06)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|----------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:28 | Donald Trump | “One of the things I would love to be someday is the mayor of New York City … being the mayor of New York … you’re really at a turning point one way or the other.” | | 03:17 | Alek Mamdani | “I consider myself the next mayor of New York City, and I keep my horizons firmly on New York City…” | | 16:34 | Rev. Al Sharpton | “He did not change what he was saying he wanted to do in the city. … It was all Trump [who changed].” | | 21:02 | Journalist | “Trump just gave one more example of how what he says isn’t true.” | | 26:12 | Journalist | “[Trump’s] political survival now hinges on pulling the mask down on all the BS that MAGA has been smearing Democrats with.” | | 32:08 | Rev. Al Sharpton | “Donald Trump totally deferred to Mandani. Mandani said, ‘we don’t agree on a lot, but we can agree on this.’ … Trump threw Miller and everybody else under the bus.” | | 36:55 | Donald Trump | “I’m not threatening them, but I think they’re in serious trouble. In the old days, it was death.” | | 45:27 | Rev. Al Sharpton | “… These are not just people that are in the Senate or an opposing party. They serve the country. I mean, some of them war heroes…” |

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Structure & Flow of the Episode

00:50–09:52

Oval Office Meeting:

• Press Q&A with Trump and Mamdani; focus on New York affordability, crime, and campaign attacks
• Trump’s effusive praise for Mamdani
• Mamdani holds his ground, highlights affordability agenda

09:52–18:35

Panel Reaction:

• Recap and analysis of the ‘love fest’
• Discussion on Trump’s instincts and winner-chasing tendencies
• Reflection on the media’s and GOP’s next move

18:35–34:14

Strategic Shifts & Political Dynamics:

• Impact on MAGA messaging, Fox News, and 2026 midterms
• Notes of skepticism about lasting significance
• Comparison between Trump and Mamdani as political talents

34:14–51:24

Escalating Rhetoric, Threats, & National Stakes:

• Trump’s violent rhetoric toward lawmakers
• Panel reflects on the dangers and implications for political violence
• Discussion of business and public backlash, durability of support coalitions

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Conclusion

This episode captures an unusual and revealing day in American politics, pivoting between Trump’s praise for a left-progressive NYC mayor-elect and his ongoing embrace of dangerous, anti-democratic rhetoric. Both the Mamdani meeting and Trump’s subsequent statements are dissected for immediate and strategic implications—underscoring Trump’s volatility, the GOP’s uncertainty, and the political opportunity for Democrats as 2026 midterms approach.

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For listeners: This summary encapsulates the important themes, dramatic exchanges, and insightful commentary from the episode, letting you follow the logic and emotional highs and lows without sitting through the entire recording.

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Transcript

[Host]

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[Donald Trump]

Elected to Congress, and more who are.

[Host]

Helping to shape the future of the party.

[Donald Trump]

The Blueprint with Jen Psaki Season 2.

[Host]

All episodes available now.

[Political Analyst]

Mr. President, I was wondering if you.

[Journalist]

Could clear up some confusion around a Washington Post report. There was this explosive report that the Coast Guard is no longer going to characterize swastikas and nooses as hate symbols. DHS called that a lie and fake news. Can you clear up?

[Donald Trump]

I don't know anything about it. When was this written?

[Journalist]

I think yesterday.

[Donald Trump]

Well, look, the Coast Guard's an incredible group of people I know very well. We just ordered a lot of new Coast Guard cutters. Beautiful. The most magnificent ship. They look like yachts with lots of guns on them. So I don't know. I haven't seen any report like that. But certainly we want them to remain a great force and they are.

[Host]

And you did the peace in all the nine months around the world.

[Alek Mamdani]

I would like to ask, Mr. Mandani.

[Host]

You'Ve accused the US government of committing.

[Donald Trump]

Genocide in Gaza while President Trump was working on peace.

[Host]

Why? Why that?

[Alek Mamdani]

I've spoken about the Israeli government committing genocide and I've spoken about our government funding it. And I shared with the president in our meeting about the concern that many New Yorkers have of wanting their tax dollars to go towards the benefit of of New Yorkers and their ability to afford basic dignity. And what we see right now is we're in the ninth consecutive year of more than 100,000 schoolchildren being homeless in our city. And there's a desperate need not only for the following of human rights, but also the following through on the promises we've made New Yorkers and I appreciated the meeting we had and the work that we can do that President Trump.

[Host]

Did do a peace and work hard to make the peace because he worked.

[Donald Trump]

Hard to do the peace in the.

[Host]

Middle east and everywhere. What do you agree with that?

[Alek Mamdani]

I appreciate all efforts towards peace. And I shared with President Trump that when I spoke to Trump voters on Hillside Avenue, including one of whom was a pharmacist, that spoke about how President Trump's father actually went to that pharmacy not too far from Jamaica, states that people were tired of seeing our tax dollars fund endless wars. And I also believe that we have to follow through on the international human rights. And I know that still today those are being violated, and that continues to be work that has to be done no matter where we're speaking of.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Mr. President, question for Mr.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you.

[Host]

Mr. President, do you view the mayor.

[Alek Mamdani]

Elect as the true leader of the.

[Host]

Democrat Party, and do you think Leader.

[Alek Mamdani]

Schumers and Leader Jeffries, you know, have.

[Donald Trump]

To follow his lead? Well, look, I hope they have great leaders. This is a man that right now I think, is focused on New York City. I really think he has a chance to do a great job. We're going to help him, but I really think he has a chance to do a great job. But I'll let you answer that. Do you consider yourself the leader of the Democrats? I think it's more appropriate for him.

[Alek Mamdani]

I consider myself the next mayor of New York City, and I keep my horizons firmly on New York City, and I appreciate the meeting with the president, which focused again on the five boroughs and whether New Yorkers could afford to live there.

[Donald Trump]

By the way, being the mayor of New York City is a big deal. I always said, you know, one of the things I would love to be someday is the mayor of New York City being the mayor of New York, and especially now, because I think you're really a turning point one way or the other. It could go great or it can go in a different direction. And I think you really have a chance to make it great.

[Host]

Mr. President, you said you love New York City. Mr. Mandani, does New York City love President Trump?

[Alek Mamdani]

New York City loves a future that is affordable. And I can tell you that there were more New Yorkers who voted for President Trump in the most recent presidential election because of that focus on cost of living. And I'm looking forward to working together to deliver on that affordability agenda.

[Donald Trump]

I got a lot of votes. One more. Go ahead. One or two more.

[Host]

Go ahead, one more.

[Alek Mamdani]

And, you know, open.

[Donald Trump]

The press has eaten this thing up. You know, I've had a lot of meetings with the heads of major countries. Nobody cared this meeting that you people have gone, you know, outside you have hundreds of people Waiting. This is just a small little group. For some reason, the press has found this to be a very interesting meeting. The biggest people in the world, they come over from countries. Nobody cares. But they did care about this meeting, and it was a great meeting. Go ahead.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Yeah.

[Donald Trump]

Mr. President, I was going to ask exactly that.

[Alek Mamdani]

Why do you think there's so much more, you know, so much excitement around.

[Donald Trump]

This than even some for? I think he's different. All right? I think he's different, and that can be in a very positive way, but I think he's different than, you know, your typical guy, runs, wins, becomes mayor, maybe, and nothing exciting, because he has a chance to really do something great for New York. New York is at a very critical point, and he does need the help of the federal government to really succeed. And we're going to be helping him. But he's different than, you know, your average candidate. He came out of nowhere. I said, he has a great campaign manager standing over there. He came out of. He came out of nowhere. What did you start off at? 1 or 2, and then I watched. I said, who is this guy? He was at 1, then he was at 3, then he was at 5, then he was at 9, then he went up to 17. I said, let's get a little bit interesting, right? And then all of a sudden he wins a primary that nobody expected he was going to win. It's a great. A great tribute. It's an amazing thing that he did.

[Alek Mamdani]

I'm sorry, I'll just add one thing to what the said is one thing I also appreciated is in. In our meeting to. To appreciate a portrait of FDR and the incredible work that was done with the New Deal. And also in thinking about what it can look like when the federal government and New York City government work together, deliver on affordability can be transformative.

[Donald Trump]

You know, we have a great portrait of FDR that I found in the vaults that was missing for years. I found it and I put it up. He's a Democrat. To the best of my knowledge, he's a Democrat. And when the mayor saw that portrait, he said, sir, do you mind if I have a picture taken by that portrait? It's an amazing portrait. The picture comes out good, but it's an amazing portrait in the Cabinet Room. So he's a big fan of the New Deal, I guess, and of FTR. Yes.

[Journalist]

Thank you, Mr. President. You said that you both spoke about crime. There are many police officers set to come off the rolls at the end of this year in New York City. Are you Going to allow those police to be replaced with police officers, actual cops? Are you going to require that that happens?

[Political Analyst]

Would there be some consequence if the staff happens?

[Donald Trump]

But again, that's going to be ultimately the mayor's decision.

[Political Analyst]

What's your answer?

[Alek Mamdani]

Is that I look forward to delivering public safety with the nypd. And I've said over the course of our campaign that we have the number of police officers today. They are the ones that's budgeted about 35,000 headcount. And I think the key thing is that we have to make it easier for police to focus on police work, not ask them to respond to 200,000 mental health calls a year.

[Journalist]

So is that a reduction from what you're at right now? Are you committing to maintaining the same level?

[Alek Mamdani]

I've committed over the course of the campaign to maintain the 35,000. That's the headcount that we had through the campaign.

[Journalist]

Replace them with caseworkers, social workers.

[Alek Mamdani]

No, I've said that's the headcount that we want. What we need to do is make sure they can focus on serious crime.

[Donald Trump]

And he just retained a great police commissioner, I believe, right?

[Alek Mamdani]

Yes, we did.

[Donald Trump]

Commissioner Keshe, if the newspapers are correct.

[Alek Mamdani]

That one, they're correct about he.

[Donald Trump]

He retained, I think, somebody that is a. She's a good friend of some of the people in my family of Ivanka, and they say she's really good, really competent. And he just retained her. So that's a good sign.

[Host]

Are there still topics that you see.

[Journalist]

The two of you disagreeing on in the future? And do you think you'll have more meetings like this?

[Donald Trump]

There will be topics that we disagree on. I think we'll probably come to a conclusion and ultimately he'll convince me or I'll convince him. You know, it's for the good of New York. Ultimately, it's for the good of New York. I don't care about affiliations or parties or anything else. I want to see if this city could be unbelievable. If he could be a spectacular success, I'd be very happy.

[Political Analyst]

Do you think you guys will meet.

[Alek Mamdani]

More in the future, too?

[Journalist]

Do you think you'll meet again in.

[Donald Trump]

The future, you know, throughout the administration? I think we will. I think we. I hope we do. I enjoyed the meeting. We had a Great meeting.

[Journalist]

Please, Mr. President.

[Alek Mamdani]

Republican Elise Stefanik has campaigned multiple times by calling Zoramdani a jihadist.

[Journalist]

Do you think you're standing next to.

[Alek Mamdani]

A jihadist right now in the Oval Office?

[Donald Trump]

No, I don't. But she's out there campaigning and, you know, you say things sometimes in a campaign.

[Journalist]

Isn't that sort of.

[Donald Trump]

She's a very capable person, but you really have to ask her about that. But I don't particularly. I think I met with a very. I met with a man who's a very rational person. I met with a man who wants to see, really wants to see New York be great again. And I can say again, because New York was great. You know, when I came down to Washington initially, the city was so hot. It was doing great. We were having some telltale signs of problems. We had a mayor that was not doing a great job, but still it was moving along. And it went bad. It really went, you know, pretty bad. And he can, I think it's been at lower points, but it went pretty bad. I think he can bring it back. Now the question is, will he bring it back all the way? Will he bring it back greater than ever before? Which is. I guarantee that's his wish. I think he wants to make it greater than ever before. And if he can, we'll be out there cheering. I'll be cheering for him. Okay, thank you very much.

[Host]

Everybody chose not to answer the question.

[Alek Mamdani]

About the synagogue protest in Jewish state of 26.

[Journalist]

Now I've seen everything. Hi again, everybody. You've been watching Donald Trump fall in love with New York City's mayor Alex Zoran Mamdani in the Oval Office after a meeting with high stakes for the country's largest city. The two men have before just now lobbed vicious verbal attacks at one another frequently. Mamdani, in his victory speech earlier this month, told Trump, quote, to get to any of us, you will have to get through all of us. Today it was an alternate reality, completely different story. The two men struck a cordial tone, initially talking about lowering the cost of living for New Yorkers. And it got more affectionate on Trump's part, at least as it went on. When pressed by journalists on whether he had called Donald Trump a fascist, Mamdani said, yes, he did. Trump, for his part, who was sitting next to him, said, go ahead, you can answer the question. It's okay. This extraordinary meeting is where we start today, with me at the table. Host of Politics Nation, president of the National Action Network. The Reverend Al Sharpton's here. He spoke with the mayor elect ahead of this meeting yesterday. We can ask him exactly what he told him to drop into Donald Trump's Diet Coke. Also joining us, the host of Fast Politics, New York Times contributing opinion writer and political analyst Molly Zhang. Fast is Here. Also joining us, Puck News senior political columnist, Ms. now national affairs analyst John Heilman is here. Rev, welcome. What was the plan and what do you think?

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Well, I talked to the mayor elect last night. He called me and I told him that I've dealt with Donald Trump 40 years. He will either be very cordial and charming and may attack you on truth Social before you get out of the grounds of the White House, or he may use it as a confrontation that you should keep your eye on what it is you're trying to do in terms of affordability, in terms of representing segments of New York that are been neglected and don't bite debate because I think that it's clear that Donald Trump will go either way, that he thinks is to his advantage. I mean, we just sat here and saw him in effect attack his future gubernatorial candidates. Characterization of Mandani, that's going to be one of the headlines. Trump says he's not a jihadist. I mean, there'll be many.

[Journalist]

Fox News covers three things with Trump down at 33%. They cover crime in America's cities. They cover really two things. They cover immigration, but that's pretty unpopular right now too. And they cover this line, this lie, this smear that New York's mayor elect is a jihadist. What are they gonna do now?

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

They're either gonna have to attack Donald Trump or find a new script. And I think he did a lot of things in he being President Trump that was interesting how New York had gone down. Well, I thought he said under Eric Adams everything was fine and that he and Eric were working together. He threw everybody in front of the bus. But again, Zoran Mandani is not off the grounds yet. Don't think that Donald Trump dates. He does not get married politically and they had a good date. That does not mean this is a political marriage. I hope, though, it benefits the city of New York. I'm glad that we're not talking about him sending Vice in here and doing what he did in la. I think that's the positive. But would I bet on this sticking only because I know Donald Trump? I wouldn't bet on that.

[Journalist]

I have never watched a public meeting. Even with Putin. Trump didn't go on for as long where he lavished that much praise, affection and admiration on anyone.

[Political Analyst]

So I have a theory that some of what's happened is that Donald Trump sees how popular Zoran is and he wants to get on that affordability train. Right? He sees his numbers. He knows inflation is plaguing him. I mean, maybe I'm ascribing too much sort of political acumen to him. But I just wonder, cuz when he was talking, he said, you know, many Bernie Sanders voters voted for me. And then you had Zorin go back and say, you know, they voted for him. You know, a lot of people in New York City voted for him. Yeah. And then he said more people voted for me. You know, I just wonder if he, I mean, look, obviously he has some, he really did clearly like him. And I think that it speaks to the talent, the political, the raw political talent that Zorin has that he can go in and sit there and just make this guy his greatest cheerleader. But I also wonder if he's trying to get on that. You know, he ran as a populist. He said he was going to make things cheaper.

[Journalist]

We're ascribing to Trump like a multi step process when all that we've ever witnessed is like a hunting dog's reflexes. And I just think there was a winner in the Oval Office today who won something that Donald Trump just told us he'd always wanted. Donald Trump said, quote, one of the things I would love to be is mayor of New York. And this is someone who won again. We'll quote Donald Trump today on this came out of nowhere. And Trump was obviously tracking his poll numbers. So Trump is endorsing Cuomo, is flipping Adams or whatever the hell he did with the Adams criminal bribery case at doj. And I wonder how all those lawyers feel about ruining their integrity to spring Adams when Trump was obviously in love with Mamdani the whole time. And he's tracking his polls. He says you were at 1 and then 4 and then 9. He's obviously been following his meteoric rise. And the guy is sitting there saying, you can call me a fascist or desp, but you just answered the question. I mean, I've never seen him sort of care for his children, his vice president or his cabinet's credibility. The way he seemed committed to honoring Mamdani's credibility.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I've never seen him do that before. But Donald Trump is one that likes a political athlete.

[Journalist]

Winner.

[Political Analyst]

Right.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

And a winner, I mean, back when sometime we would get along, I would sit at ringside at boxing matches because he had the license in Atlantic City, he would go in rooting for one boxer and if another guy got ahead in the third round, he was rooting for, rooting for him. He's going to walk out of the place with the winner.

[Journalist]

Should, like JD Maris, get some juicing boxes.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Exactly. But I think what is critical here, let's not forget, is that Trump changed a position on Mandani. Mandani did not change what he was saying he wanted to do in the city. And I think what a lot of us were looking for is whether Mandani, even when they ask questions, well, what are you saying about Trump? He says people voted for affordable. Some of them voted for Trump. You did not see Mandani become the guy that changed at all, at all. It was all Trump. And so I could say from having talked to Mandani several times, including last night, that he held the line on what he said. It's Donald Trump that changed the script, and he did so rightfully. He ought to be working with the mayor of New York. He ought to be talking like this. I just don't know how long it will last. But I think that Zahran McDani did not change anything other than he was cordial to a man who had called him everything but a child of God, and he had no reason to confront him because Donald Trump said, no, he's not a jihadist. No, he's going to do great things. No, he's going to be a great mayor. This is a guy who said, let's vote to save the city, to vote for somebody else.

[Journalist]

Hi. I'll tell you, I just have to say, I've covered Donald Trump for nine years. This might be one of my favorite live Trump events I've ever covered.

[Host]

One of the greatest things just to think back on over the course of our week. If I had asked you all a week ago, what was more likely that Donald Trump would capitulate on the Epstein files and would urge everyone to vote for the discharge petition and that Marjorie Taylor Greenery, Lauren Boebert would stand up to all those things. You would have said, oh, that's pretty unlikely, John. What's less likely? That or this mom diary. You would have been a stumper that Trump would end up having a love.

[Journalist]

Story with mom Donna.

[Host]

You would have been like, oh, my God. I don't know which one of those is like. I often tell the story of my first encounter with Trump when he decided to run. Trump and I have been fighting on Twitter for years and years and years. He decided to run for president the day after he announced for president. I was at Trump Tower. I came back, we covered it on live television. I tweeted out a thing that said, everybody who thinks that Donald Trump can't win the Republican nomination, you should think twice, because the Republican Party is becoming more Racist, more xenophobic, more populist, more this, more that. Trump tweeted backhiles. Finally started to understand Donald Trump. And I really was like, oh, he's binary. Like, at that moment, there were all these political reporters and correspondents and analysts saying he can't win. And it didn't matter why. I said, I could have said, you.

[Journalist]

Said he could win because people are becoming as racist as it is.

[Host]

But it didn't matter. If I had said, the whole country is secretly in the Ku Klux. That's why he can win, he would have been like, thank you for saying that. Because winner, loser.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

That's right.

[Host]

Your thing is the binary. At any moment, there's you're with me or against me, you think I can win that? Winner.

[Political Analyst]

Yeah.

[Host]

Zoram Hamdani. In 2024, Donald Trump was on the presidential ballot here because he ran for president right in New York City, won 786,000 votes in a presidential election year. 786,000 votes. So arm Hamdani won more than a million votes the other day. That, in Donald Trump's mind, is a very simple scorecard. That guy looks at, that guy goes, he's a winner. He's a winner. And I don't think any of it guarantees anything, because you will recall after the election in 2016, he sat there in the Oval Office with Barack Obama. They didn't have a love fest like this, but it was cordial. And Trump came out afterwards and said he really liked Obama. He thought Obama was really good. He said all kinds of nice things about Obama. Not like this, because he was. Was just coming in, but they had a very cordial meeting. And now, as you know, Donald Trump has been trying to try to investigate Barack Obama ever since. Two months from now, we could be in a totally different place, but right now, Trump is feeling, like, weak and like a loser. Zorat Mamdani is a winner, and he wants to be in that.

[Journalist]

I was about to say, oh, I agree with you.

[Host]

I'm saying thanks for two days, two months, two weeks, who knows? None of it means anything except for today. But today, Donald Trump is on his heels. This week. Zoram Donnie is on his. Is on the opposite of what on his toes. He's like, I just want to sit here and, like, bask around in the warm glow of winter right now because he's probably feeling not very winterish at the moment.

[Journalist]

But let me just say the thing that I think is revealed at a more substantive level, in addition to all these things we are seeing on display from Trump to the rev's point, the mayor elect compromised nothing. He pulled back nothing. He denied, he did not deny calling him a fascist. He stood there. Donald Trump said, I didn't mean anything. I said, you say stuff in campaigns. Donald Trump, who's facing a credibility crisis with his own base, said this about, are you standing next to a jihadist? No, I'm not. You say things in campaigns. Donald Trump just gave one more example of how what he says isn't true, I'll tell you.

[Host]

Well, that's. I mean, Trump doesn't care about that. He doesn't care whether about Trudeau.

[Journalist]

Yeah, but he's in a credibility crisis politically.

[Host]

I don't think think he sees it quite that way. I mean, Trump doesn't. We correctly think he is in a credibility crisis with a lot of his voters. I think Trump just believes his own bullshit pretty much all the time. He doesn't ever see that. But, I mean, I think he hears from Steve Bannon has been saying incredibly complimentary things about Mamdani, about not just on affordability, but on the populism of it and on how the ground game of the Democratic Socialist for America. I think Trump is getting the sense that this guy's an outsider. Trump is an outsider, and he did that. He conquered this place, that Trump, he looks at that and thinks, okay, game recognizes game a little bit here. Will it last 48 hours? Will it last four weeks, four months? Again, he could do. They could be sending ICE agents, they could be sending a flotilla of ICE people up the Hudson, you know, by the time we get to Christmas. But for today, I think there's just this moment of sort of like, you know, the other thing we don't know, by the way. And I'm not suggesting that Mamdani has compromised anything substantively, but, like, if you were advising Mamdani, Rev did a little bit. But if you were Mamdani advised madam, you'd say, hey, you know, what has worked for a lot of people like Kathy Hochul. Well, and for a lot of European leaders is go into the Oval Office and just agree with him, tell him he's great. We don't know tonally how Mamdani buttered him up in the Oval Office. I'm not even saying that would be a bad thing. If you substantively hold your ground. You can imagine Mamdani looking smartly in the private meeting for ways to say, we're on the same team, we're aligned. And if Trump feels like someone's been Flattering him in private. He walks out with that warm glow of he's a winner, and he was flattering me in private. And so why not just give him a lot of love?

[Journalist]

But I think the tectonic piece that Trump moved today is that Fox News and the Republican Party have very few party tricks right now.

[Political Analyst]

Right.

[Journalist]

They cannot brag on the raids because they're wildly unpopular. Even Joe Rogan hates them. They cannot point to prices because they have all gone up. They cannot point to ending wars because every day it seems Trump has dropped a bomb on another fisherman boat they allege is carrying drugs. One of the only plays they have right now is branding the Democratic Party with the smears that are untrue and racist that they've launched against the mayor elect. Now, for the better part of a year, Trump took all that away. That is politically seismic.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

It is very much so politically seismic. Two things. One, if the Democrats have any operatives at all, they should be cutting a commercial right now of Trump saying this and putting next to a Trump saying. You say things in campaigns to prove that he's disingenuous. He admitted it. He confessed on national television that don't believe anything I say. You say anything in the campaign. Secondly, Mandani, according to their strategy, was to be the face that was going to turn the midterm election elections from Democrat back to Republican. They just lost that. He just removed that. The midterm elections just went up for Hakeem and Chuck Schumer in a seismic way, for sure. So I think that I don't know what Madname said in private. From what I've seen of him, I don't think he said anything he didn't believe. He's a cordial guy and he knows how to do this.

[Journalist]

I've seen him do another. I can't imagine he said a noun and a verb and affordability.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Absolutely. And if he had said something, Donald Trump would have been the kind of guy to say, tell him how you told how great I was about. He would have quoted him if he said, I think that he's just cordial, he's respectful. He came in there focused, and he walked out having sold out nothing. Donald Trump, who spent half the week demonizing Marjorie Taylor Greene, ends the week praising Zoran Mondame. This is Donald Trump's world.

[Political Analyst]

And can I add just one more thing? One of the biggest losers there was least Stefano, because not.

[Journalist]

I forgot about her.

[Host]

Right.

[Political Analyst]

Because not only was he like, he's not saying he's disingenuous. He's saying she's disingenuous that she said this, but she doesn't really believe it. And so a lot of the. I mean, it's like separating her from Maga, saying she doesn't really believe the stuff she says, it's separating her from him. I mean, it's just for her, it's a disaster.

[Journalist]

What's amazing about that is that his political survival now hinges on pulling the mask down on all the BS that MAGA has been smearing Democrats with. And maybe I consume more Fox News than everyone here, but they spend a lot of time.

[Host]

Yeah, but let's not forget one thing. Mamdani has not governed a day yet. And so I just, I don't want to be like, I think this is an incredible scene that we've just seen. Does anybody at the table really think that if Mamdani comes into office and his approval ratings start to fall in any way, for whatever reason, or if there is a little, you know, a little spate of crime that Trump will not happily turn around like a week later and start. Yes, we will be able to point out the contradiction. We will say. And he will say, well, of course I was nice to him before he'd done anything and now he's the mayor and, you know, he was great in the Oval Office with me, but now he's a communist again. I just don't think.

[Journalist]

Look, no one knows what the pin.

[Host]

Trump down to some consistent love of Mamdani for the rest of the.

[Journalist]

Because he can't be pinned out. But we might be at war with Venezuela by then. I mean, I think like Trump is in an hour by hour political death spiral. And this was a fascinating set of choices to deal with. His own political.

[Host]

I totally agree. I just don't wanna, like, get fall into the trap of thinking that somehow Trump will feel like he's bound by consistency of what he said here. Of course, he'll have the bright line of he's not mayor yet. You know, he will see what.

[Journalist]

It wasn't clear that he even knew that to.

[Host]

Well, that's.

[Journalist]

Eric who.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Who we are not talking about Epstein. He has a lot of press.

[Journalist]

I mean, we will, but.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Yeah, but I'm saying Epstein becomes a side story. Venezuela next. I mean, Donald Trump plays for Donald Trump. And I think that like I told the mayor elect last night, he will either go all the way, like he did with Zelensky about Ukraine, or he could be the most charming guy in the world. I mean, he's done it with me Al, look where you come from. He's the biggest con man in the world. Al Sharpton. That's who he is, and that's who he told the world he is today. You say anything in a campaign, they ought to be running commercials. That was Confessions at the Church.

[Political Analyst]

I just wanna add one other thing about Trump, which is that we do know that he always, the last person he speaks to, tends to have the most power. So there is a phenomenon where he decides he loves him for two hours, and then he gets on the phone with Stephen Miller, and Stephen Miller says, no, Eric Adams come from.

[Journalist]

Yes, but let me just butt you on that, because Stephen Miller wanted to deport him.

[Political Analyst]

Right.

[Journalist]

So Stephen Miller. They were gonna strip him of his citizenship. I mean, there was obviously, to your theory, a debate. And Stephen Miller lost.

[Political Analyst]

Yes, for sure. And I think that's the. And it's important that we take this moment for the weird and strangely. I don't know, it's one of the weirdest moments of this presidency.

[Journalist]

Let me come back to Mamdani for a second, because the magnetic field that is sort of part of his political phenomenon obviously traveled to the Oval office today.

[Host]

Yeah, 100%. I mean, look, everybody's gonna yell at me for saying this, but look, Trump and Mondani have a lot in common. They have nothing in common ideologically, nothing in common substantively, but they're talented. They both have. They're both. Both real political athletes, and they both have a kind of. For their supporters, which are different sides of the ideological spectrum, they have a kind of visceral, feral charisma. No one who watches MSNBC thinks Trump is charismatic at all. But millions of people think. Millions of people think he is charismatic. And all you have to do is Compare Trump to J.D. vance to tell him you, like, Trump is a natural performer to a certain kind of audience. Mamdani is a natural performer to another kind of audience, both generationally and ideologically. Right. I mean, he. The excitement for Mamdani among young New Yorkers is he's speaking their language. He uses the media in a way that they. And he. And his charisma is keyed to that group that turned out for him in extraordinary, extraordinary numbers. Trump has his. Did the same thing with a different kind of army. And I do think that, like, there is this, especially at this moment, like, you can't. You can't overstate the extent to which Trump must be feeling he had to do things in the last week that he has never had to do before. First, he told the Senate, as the Senate has never said no to him ever, on anything he said, get rid of the filibuster. And as boring a guy as John Thune said, sorry, go pound sand. Trump's already kinda like, that's a little weird, like what's going on there, like what happened with John Thune over there. They're telling me that I can't do what they're not gonna do what I told them to. And then this thing happened this week that we saw. Trump has got to be like a little bit, you know, he's like been knocked a little sideways, I think. And again, when a big warm breeze of winterhood, when winterhood is the main thing.

[Journalist]

Trump from New York City.

[Host]

From New York City, a guy who did this thing and Trump is not. He has a lot of indictments in his heart. He has a lot of cruelty in his heart. But he also knows, like, New York City is like the place that has most exemplified success to him, way more than the White House or Washington or the presidency. Conquering New York has been his thing from the time he was a little kid.

[Political Analyst]

He also owns a lot of buildings here, or he owns, I mean, property here, maybe not a lot, but you know, he and his, and, and you know, his son in law, I mean, these families own a lot. You know, they have money invested in this city.

[Journalist]

So Donald Trump, after saying one of the things I would love to be as mayor of New York, said this about Mayor Alek Mamdani, quote, I think he's different. We're going to be helping him. Good day for New York.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

And I think that that is key. I think the takeaway, I know we're reacting in real time, but the takeaway for me, knowing both of the gentlemen in the room, is that Donald Trump totally deferred to Mandani. Mandani said, we don't agree on a lot, but we can agree on this. He kept saying, we're not the same person. Donald Trump, he's great. He can be a great mayor. He's great. And I think that if you're looking at both sides, the side of Mandani didn't lose anything. He didn't give up anything, nothing. Trump threw Miller and everybody else under the bus.

[Journalist]

I mean, I'm gonna go back and find it. When they talked about stripping him of his citizenship and deporting him, I think it had millions of retruths or whatever they call it. I can barely get that amount. I mean, all those people were sold down the river today. For Donald Trump, who believes that the mayor elect Mamdani is, quote, different.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I mean, if you are, we sat here and watched it live. Imagine if you were Eric Adams or Andrew Cuomo watching.

[Journalist]

I mean, or whoever's on at Fox. What am I gonna say?

[Host]

Stephen Miller or Steven Miller on the White House closed circuit?

[Donald Trump]

Oh, my gosh. J.D.

[Journalist]

Miller, he's been asked in interviews about who inherits MAGA and he's like, I don't know. I'm not sure about J.D. you know, like, he doesn't ever come out that effusively about anyone that works for him.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

He's never said that about J.D. vance or Marco Rubio. I mean, he or Jared Kushner threw them all in front of the bus.

[Journalist]

Yeah. Amazing.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

The fears that those of us that could sit ourselves left or center was in many ways relieved because Mandani walked out of there giving up nothing, including the standing for what he said. And Donald Trump did everything that I would have thought he wouldn't have done. But now it's up for his team to clean up what he messed up job.

[Journalist]

That's going to be a busy, a busy, busy job. No one's going anywhere.

[Host]

You know, I don't, I don't know what to say.

[Journalist]

I'm glad, you know, we'll always have this day together. There's more news, though, also ahead for us.

[Host]

Like comet flew overhead or something.

[Journalist]

Donald Trump is still Donald Trump, unfortunately. And there is more news and breaking developments on Donald Trump's shocking threat to democracy. Democratic lawmakers, those he called traitors to the country, who all happen to have served our country in national security and military capacities. One of those lawmakers today disclosed, revealed, made public the terrifying voicemails he's received since Donald Trump made those threats. We'll play them for you and we'll talk about all that later. Also ahead, we'll talk to one of the Democrats Donald Trump has targeted. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

[Donald Trump]

Start your day with the MSNow Daily Newsletter.

[Host]

Sharp insights from voices you trust, standout moments from your favorite shows, and fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. Sign up @MS. Now.

[Journalist]

A pair of major developments to tell you about today in the aftermath of Donald Trump's other shocking and unprecedented threats to sitting lawmakers, specifically those six Democrats with backgrounds in the United States military and national security who, who made a video reminding active duty service members of something that should not be partisan or controversial at all, that was that they should refuse any illegal orders. First, Axios is reporting that the United States Capitol Police now have in their possession a highly unusual formal request for an investigation into Trump over his social media posts, like the one in which he said, quote, seditious behavior punishable by death, end quote, quote. Or the one he reposted that said, quote, hang them. George Washington would, end quote. The second development is that a short time ago, Congressman Jason Crow, one of those six Democrats targeted by Trump, released a number of the highly disturbing and threatening voicemails he received in the aftermath of Donald Trump's threats. We have made the decision as a network not to replay them and replatform them because they are so violent. And there's some concern that disseminating them could encourage copycat threats. But first, listen to the way Donald Trump earlier today passed up what we perceive to be a political lifeline being thrown to him by Brian Kilmeade of Fox News.

[Donald Trump]

I'll tell you what what they said is. And it was. I mean, I don't know about the modern day things because, you know, modern day is a lot softer. But in the old days, if you said a thing like that, that was punishable by debt.

[Host]

Yeah, but you're not saying, you're not threatening them. A lot of people are interpreting there's a threat in their security.

[Donald Trump]

I'm not threatening them, but I think they're in serious trouble. I would say they're in serious trouble. I'm not threatening death, but I think they're in serious trouble. In the old days, it was death.

[Host]

Do you worry, Mr. President?

[Donald Trump]

Behavior.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Do you worry?

[Donald Trump]

It's a big deal.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Do you worry?

[Donald Trump]

You know, nothing's a big deal. Today's a different world. Okay? It's a softer mic. It's a meeker, milder world. But I will say this. I think what they did is really bad.

[Journalist]

I mean, we didn't actually hang Mike Pence. We just chanted it. It's a softer world. You're gonna have to help me. I'm throwing you a lifeline. I don't even know what to say.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Speaks for itself. He was given four chances by Khomeini to denounce that he in any way, shape or form, remotely was suggesting that. He kept saying, we're softies. Now we're just soft. Back in the day, back in the old days, I mean, he was almost saying, let's bring back the good old days. And Calumetti kept saying, but you're not saying that. And he almost said, yes, I am saying that. This is how it used to be done. Certainly he was not diffusing any threats to be serious that came on the lives of those that were in that commercial. He had the opportunity to defuse it, to denounce it, to say, anyone that does it speaks not in any way, shape or form for me or Mag or whoever on Fox News. Of course, he could have said that he had every opportunity and Kilmetti had gave him every opportunity. He never denounced even the idea that these threats were coming. And he kept going back down memory lanes about George Washington and what would have happened. And he really missed an opportunity or he intended to not save what he could have said to defuse a very dangerous situation.

[Journalist]

And I mean, to tie the political piece of this retribution is very unpopular. And I know he ran on it and he's launched his campaign in Waco. I think you were here that day. We covered it. Retribution was certainly out in public, and anyone that voted for him should have known that's where his heart and soul was going to be. But it is politically unpopular and there is a direct line. I mean, the last batch of folks he threatened or accused of treason include Jim Comey, who's now being criminally prosecuted by Donald Trump's Justice Department.

[Political Analyst]

Yeah. And, you know, just to pull back and think about the politics of this moment, this was an ad of veterans, right? Veterans who are really popular people like veterans, they've served the country, they're popular veteran lawmakers saying, please don't do anything illegal. Like that's it. Like, don't do illegal stuff. The law also popular. Right. So, like you have, you find Donald Trump on the wrong side of both veterans and fallen following the law. And Fox News is like, just say you didn't mean the thing that's really inflammatory, that's not popular. And he just can't, he can't back down. He just has to keep doubling down.

[Host]

I think there's another thing going on here, which is that the person who you most remember this, he made the same thread, basically the identical threat to Mark Milley. Right. And. And nothing came of that. Obviously, he was never tried for treason. There was no treason. So you would never have it happen. But if you talk to people in the military, they will say that the way that Milley was treated, both that threat and the fact they took the pictures down and everything else has sent kind of a chill through the active duty command, which is very uncomfortable with discussion of sending the military into American cities. Very uncomfortable with Trump going to West Point or going to, giving the speeches that he's given at the various academies when he gets Very political and gets very partisan. Right. And a lot of people ask this question, well, when is someone from the active duty military at a senior level going to stand up and say, this is not appropriate? When is that moment going to come? Right. If you talk to people who are both veterans and people in the military about this, they say part of the reason that people have been hesitant is that the armed forces is meant to be apolitical. They're uncomfortable with that role. That's the biggest thing. But the second thing is that the Millie thing sent this message to about the fact where Trump was on this. And I think, you know, I think Trump has. Is. There's a. There's a broad political game, which is, are these people popular? Are veterans popular? Which is all of which Molly's totally right about. But I think Trump is trying to. Is trying to make clear he thinks he's gonna order the military to do things that are unlawful.

[Journalist]

My general.

[Host]

And he is trying to send messages throughout to anybody that this message that these Democrats put forward, he wants to put. Wants to make clear that this is not going to be easy for people to follow what the Universal Code of Military justice, the Uniform Code of Military justice says you are not just allowed not to defy an unlawful order. You are required to defy unlawful or unconstitutional orders. That is what the Uniform Code of Military justice says. Trump is. This is a little piece of an iceberg of a little piece of ice attached to a much deeper iceberg.

[Journalist]

Well, the other pieces that are above sea level, though, are the insistence on having Hagseth there, who was also unpopular. Bipartisan opposition. I think our first ever was bipartisan opposition. And the first round of firings were not just people close to Milley.

[Host]

They were the JAG operators, the lawyers, and the Judge Advocate Generals. Yes.

[Journalist]

So why wasn't the answer when this video came out? We'll retweet it. We agree.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Right?

[Political Analyst]

Right.

[Journalist]

Like the answer should have been, we'll never issue an illegal order not to threaten to hang these.

[Host]

Right. There's a lot being said here by what's not being said as much as what is being said.

[Journalist]

Okay.

[Political Analyst]

This is popular too, right? I mean, there's a political. There's a good political calculus. It's smart politics.

[Journalist]

Maybe next time the mayor can ask him. We're just taking a break. We'll be right home to the Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, the briefing with.

[Political Analyst]

Jen Psaki and more voices you know and trust.

[Journalist]

Msnow is your source for news, opinion and the world. Our name is new but you'll find the same commitment to justice, progress and the truth that you've relied on for decades. We'll continue to cover the day's news.

[Political Analyst]

Ask the tough questions, and explain how it impacts you.

[Journalist]

Ms. Now. Same mission, new name.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Learn more at Ms. Now.

[Donald Trump]

The President of the United States just.

[Host]

Called for members of Congress to be executed. If you are a person of influence in this country, maybe it's time to pick a side. If you are a Republican in Congress, if you are a Republican governor, maybe it's time to draw a line in the sand and say that under no circumstances should the President of the United States be calling on his political opposition to be hanged.

[Journalist]

As far as red lines go, we think that's a pretty good one. Molly.

[Political Analyst]

Yeah, you know, it's funny cuz you see these Chris Murphy videos and you know who he's talking to? He's talking to Jeff Bezos, right? He's talking to Tim Cook, he's talking to those Republican governors. And I think what's important to realize about this is eventually there is going to come a moment over the next three and a half, three years where, where Trump is gonna do something and they're gonna need to push back, right? Like January 6th, where they're gonna have to not go along with it. Because we know Trump and we know Trumpism and it just keeps going. It never stops. It doesn't. And so I do think even though this probably won't be the moment, what Chris Murphy is doing with those videos is actually quite smart. And eventually these people are going to have to tell Trump enough is enough.

[Journalist]

I mean, Rev, these are sort of points that I'm not sure are connected yet. But to Molly's point, you have the Kimmel reaction from the general public, cancellations of their Disney and Hulu accounts. You have the sweep of those elections and even the brand that Republicans thought they were going to ride to political redemption. Trump completely erased. And obviously Mayor Elect Mamdani is politically talented enough that that was never going to happen anyway. The third is this very, very dangerous accusation against six, just any Democrats, not the most partisan Democrats, six veterans of the United States military and United States national security agencies.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

These are not just people that are in the Senate or an opposing party. They serve the country. I mean, some of them war heroes. And you are just letting this go like they're guilty of sedition, you who never served in the military and that in the old days they would have been shot. And here's a man who was shot and a man There was another assassination plot uncovered. If anyone should not want to raise the temperature to even put that in some psycho's mind, it should be him that was a victim. It is just unthinkable to me that he would be that uncaring and put these people in danger. And he didn't even use today to say, I denounce the threats because this was public before he went in front of the press. He never said a word about, wait a minute, maybe I blew it on Kilmety. He'll never say that. But let me say now that I denounce anyone to think that way. I disagree with these people. He never took an opportunity to even clean it up.

[Host]

I mean, he called Marjorie Taylor Greene a traitor this week. And as I said, the Mark Milley thing, just words don't mean. I mean, I think he is sending this message. I think he is. The thing I said before, I think is still true. I think this is part of a game that is about his long term plans to what he wants to do with the military and what that's going to look like when it unfolds. But I also think that he uses terms like traitor, like a way that little kids, it's like, I don't know, you're playing Dungeons and Dragons and it's like the words, these things of punishable by death. It's like he's like, like cosplaying these threats in some ways and that doesn't make them any less serious because they do incite people in his to commit this violence, this Trump's irresponsibility. Doesn't see the fact that his language has consequences. But I think in his head, he throws traitor around all the time. It's like he's kind of like he does not. He has no responsibility. He has no sense of the fact that words matter. I don't think he really sometimes even understands the words he uses. And so it's like, I, I mean, you could really. I just, I don't mean to make light of the whole thing, but the fact that he. The one other thing you could always rely on for Trump is that his power as a nicknamer was great. And I wasn't on with you to say this, but man, Marjorie, Traitor Brown. And then a parenthetical to explain why Brown, because Green, that's what happens to green when it rots. It's like, you know, definitionally, a nickname that requires a parenthetical to explain it is not a good nickname. That's how you know Trump's slipping. It's like, you know, I mean, the guy who came up with Little Marco and Lion Ted is not now doing Marjorie Traitor Brown with a parenthetical to explain it. I mean, he's losing it.

[Journalist]

But on that, though, I mean, this idea about the capitulators is interesting because I actually think that Trump, even politically weakened, is still the only person with two hands on the wheel. He's the only president we have for three more years. And even if the knuckles are white and the nicknames suck, he's still got an immense amount of power. And I think he can do an.

[Host]

Immense amount of damage.

[Journalist]

Immense amount of damage. I think one of the potential checks on his worst instincts, other than our new mayor, is going to be that the capitulators express some remorse. And the law firms that went down there on bended knee, literally, and are now doing work for them as part of their social media posts crafted by Boris Epstein are like, maybe we shouldn't have capitulated so fast.

[Political Analyst]

And I think that is what Chris Murphy is trying to do there, is trying to say, like, because the reason that Trump 1.0 wasn't the smashing, quote, unquote, success that the Heritage foundation and that his people wanted it to be was because the American people resisted. Right. There were just sand in the gears at every point. And I think that this is what Murphy is trying to say, is that, you know, this Trump's second time in office, there was a feeling that this was like a fetacom plea. And you had the billionaires at the inauguration standing behind him, being like, yes, yes, we want regulatory approval. We'll go along with this. And now you see that the rest of America does not. Right.

[Journalist]

So the companies are out of step with their customers.

[Political Analyst]

And you see that with Target. I mean, you talk about the Target. You guys did. These guys did a boycott of Target. And Target is now in free fall.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

And you've got other companies that are doing the same thing, having the same withdrawal. People are planning now around the holidays because of the guy being removed by Trump. And I think that there's the quiet but firm resolve by some people that we're not going to do. Look at the no Kings March. The public, I think we're seeing it building up.

[Host]

Like to see some of those CEOs going to the no Kings March. I'll tell you what, when you're going to see those CEOs capitulate, they're going to see them capitulate after a year from now. When.

[Journalist]

After the midterms.

[Host]

Yeah, when Democrats control a House control, an arm about a branch of government.

[Journalist]

Hakeem Jeffries has got Bezos online. Wine.

[Host]

I wouldn't be super optimistic about any of those people capitulating in the next year because their attitude, they don't testify.

[Journalist]

They should. All right. I'm so glad we will always have had this day together. Please come back. It's so much better having friends at the table. Please, please.

[Host]

If you promise that every time we come back, we'll get something as good as that.

[Donald Trump]

Mum.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Donnie Trump present.

[Host]

I'll come back every day.

[Journalist]

Halman. Reverend Al Sharpton. Molly, thank you so much for being here, guys. Up next for us, one of the Democrats targeted by Donald Trump and accused of seditious behavior. A sitting U.S. congressman and former U.S. navy officer will join us along with one of the leading voices working to hold Donald Trump accountable over the last nine years. Quick break. We'll be right back.

[Donald Trump]

As President Trump continues implementing his ambitious.

[Host]

Agenda, follow along with the MSNow newsletter, Project 40. You'll get weekly updates sent straight to your inbox with expert analysis on the administration's latest actions and how they're affecting the American people.

[Journalist]

The American people are basically telling the president that they are not okay with any of this.

[Host]

Sign up for the Project 47 newsletter at Ms. Now. Project 47.