"Some kind of accountability"

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House — “Some Kind of Accountability”

Host: Nicolle Wallace
Date: February 11, 2026
Theme:
This episode centers on the high-stakes congressional hearing with Attorney General Pam Bondi regarding the Department of Justice’s (DOJ) handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files, the failure to provide accountability for survivors, and the broader implications for American trust in institutions—all set against ongoing debates about government transparency, abuse of power, and politicization of law enforcement.

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Main Theme and Purpose

Nicolle Wallace leads a charged discussion focusing on the quest for accountability from the Justice Department over the mishandling of evidence and testimony related to Jeffrey Epstein’s abuse. Survivors, lawmakers from both parties, and legal analysts express mounting frustration over DOJ stonewalling, lack of transparency, and political theater, particularly by AG Pam Bondi, who is accused of being more interested in partisan performance than justice. The episode expands to discuss Trump’s wider influence on institutions, with analysis from experts on intelligence, law, and politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pam Bondi’s Congressional Hearing: Victims Denied, Accountability Dodged

• Survivors of Epstein’s abuse appeal for justice and answers at a congressional hearing.
• Attorney General Pam Bondi, who previously claimed to have Epstein’s client list, fails to apologize or engage meaningfully with the survivors.
  • Wallace notes: “There was no apology. Attorney General Pambani never turned around and apologized to the victims of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse.” (03:40)
• Bondi’s answers are evasive and combative, often attacking questioners rather than taking responsibility.
  • Rep. Thomas Massie (R) presses Bondi on DOJ’s failure and alleged efforts to protect powerful individuals named in the files. Bondi redirects and claims quick corrections, downplays errors.
• Survivors and lawmakers across the political divide decry DOJ’s lack of action.
  • Survivor Danny Bensky says: “She won't even turn around and acknowledge us as people… DOJ has failed time and time again. It is just such a grave miscarriage of justice.” (07:55)

2. Bipartisan Outrage, Distrust, and DOJ Stonewalling

• Host and panelists emphasize that outrage at DOJ is bipartisan; transparency is demanded across party lines.
  • “You've got as much or more interest in seeing the files released on the right than on the left… no partisan divide in questions about transparency and suspicions about the cover up.” (Wallace, 11:42)
• Bondi’s performances are likened to “getting clips for Fox News primetime,” ignoring the seriousness and sensitivity of the subject.
  • “There are a lot of people, particularly in the MAGA base… that want to know who was implicated here... people want to know if you’re investigating it... dumping all these files and calling us names is not sufficient.” (Tim Miller, 10:14)
• Lack of action is seen as political—the DOJ is accused of protecting those close to power.

3. Trump, DOJ, and Political Theatre

• Wallace and panelists detail how Bondi frames criticism as a “deep state” attack, claims total document releases under Trump, and repeatedly invokes Trump’s transparency—a claim met with disbelief.
  • “Donald Trump signed that law to release all of those documents. He is the most transparent president in the nation's history.” (Bondi, 12:13)
  • “We're laughing because we’re not on CNBC, sweetie." (Wallace quipping after Bondi pivots to the stock market, 13:00)
• Bondi’s focus is contrasted with the suffering of survivors. Panelists recount survivor disillusionment and feeling dehumanized by Bondi’s conduct.

4. Panel Reflection: Survivor Exclusion & Political Cues

• Survivor advocates and legal experts emphasize that not a single survivor has met with DOJ, despite repeated offers.
  • “How many of you or your loved ones actually have met with the Department of Justice… None.” (19:39)
  • “All of you who have reached out… were denied or ignored.” (20:13)
• Panelists argue this is a violation of the Crime Victims’ Rights Act and basic decency.
  • “Any normal prosecutor would have turned around and looked at them... and said, make sure to leave all your information... Not acknowledging that complaint... just saying, well, just call a hotline... she’s a puppet [of Trump]." (Christy Greenberg, 21:41)
  • Reference to Trump’s own dismissive attitude: “He said they don’t deserve an audience.”

5. Intelligence, Election Interference, and Institutional Decay

• In the next segment, Nicolle Wallace interviews former Principal Deputy DNI Sue Gordon about DNI Tulsi Gabbard’s involvement in the Georgia election raid at Trump’s explicit order.
  • Gordon: “The DNI has zero, zero domestic authorities… She doesn't have law enforcement authority, she doesn't conduct domestic intel collection… So why is she there? She has no authority to be there.” (30:56–31:25)
  • Gordon warns that misapplying intelligence figures for political stunts erodes trust in institutions and confuses their role.
  • Wallace reflects: “Bringing up the Dow Jones average in a hearing about the Epstein files… people are getting onto [the distraction tactics].” (36:06)

6. Societal Implications: Trust, Accountability, and American Strength

• Wallace and Gordon discuss institutional decay and the need for new mechanisms to meet current strategic uncertainty.
  • Gordon: “The mechanisms that our founders put in place… are showing their wear and tear… We must build new, accepting the fact that… they might break what we had. Then we have to be prepared to address our ideals newly.” (37:58)
  • Wallace: “If you were assessing America from abroad… Bigger balls on the people living in Minneapolis than a single one of the tech bros.” (40:12)
• Panel critiques failures of tech, legal, and academic elites, but asserts trust in the American people’s resilience and agency.

7. Olympic Voices for Accountability

• Segment highlights U.S. Olympic athletes, like Minnesota’s Rich Ruhonen, speaking out about civil liberties and the importance of constitutional rights amid the political crisis.
  • Ruhonen: “…what’s happening in Minnesota is wrong. I want to make it clear that we are out here. We love our country… sacrificed so much to get here today.” (44:43)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Nicolle Wallace: “There was no apology. Attorney General Pambani never turned around and apologized to the victims of Jeffrey Epstein’s abuse.” (03:40)
• Danny Bensky (Epstein survivor): “She won’t even turn around and acknowledge us as people… DOJ has failed time and time again. It is just such a grave miscarriage of justice.” (07:55)
• Tim Miller: “[Bondi's] type of yelling and screaming theatrical performance on a matter that is so sensitive and that people across party lines in the country care about…” (10:14)
• Christy Greenberg: “She’s a puppet. She doesn’t have any independent train of thought here… Donald Trump doesn’t want to meet with these victims. He has made it clear from the top he has no respect for them.” (21:41)
• Sue Gordon: “The DNI has zero, zero domestic authorities. She doesn’t have law enforcement authority, she doesn’t conduct domestic intel collection… So why is she there? She has no authority to be there.” (30:56–31:25)
• Rich Ruhonen (Olympic athlete): “We have a constitution… what’s happening in Minnesota is wrong… We love our country. We’re playing for the U.S., for Team USA…” (44:43)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | | --- | --- | | 00:55–03:40 | Congressional hearing, Bondi refuses apology to survivors |
| 04:15–05:08 | Bondi pressed on redactions, evasion of Wexner’s name |
| 06:19–07:55 | Bondi’s deflections on Trump officials with Epstein ties |
| 07:55–08:31 | Survivor Danny Bensky’s statement |
| 09:05–10:14 | Panel: Gaslighting and public outrage |
| 11:42–13:00 | Panel: Bipartisan demand for transparency |
| 16:05–16:36 | Rep. Massie: Possible legal recourse for DOJ failures |
| 19:37–20:13 | Panel: None of the survivors have met with DOJ |
| 21:41–23:00 | Greenberg: DOJ violated Crime Victims’ Rights Act |
| 25:47–27:14 | Panel: Trump supporters played for fools over Epstein |
| 29:05–31:25 | Interview: Sue Gordon explains DNI and intel overreach |
| 37:58–41:17 | Gordon: America’s resilience in the face of broken systems |
| 44:43–45:27 | Olympic athlete Rich Ruhonen on speaking out |

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Tone & Flow

The episode is sharply critical, deeply empathetic toward survivors, and mordantly humorous when exposing official evasions (“We’re not on CNBC, sweetie”). The mood shifts from exasperation (at DOJ evasion) to somber reflection (about institutional trust and national crossroads), ultimately returning to a note of hope, based on ordinary citizens’ and survivors’ courage.

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Takeaway

This episode of Deadline: White House exposes the DOJ’s failures in the Epstein case and the hollowness of Bondi’s performance, documenting bipartisan anger, survivor disillusionment, and worry about political manipulation of justice. Expert voices reinforce the urgent need for a new spirit of accountability and institutional renewal—and testify to the resilience of survivors, athletes, and everyday Americans determined not to let power rewrite history or evade justice.

Transcript

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[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

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[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

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[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

We keep hearing our press secretary and our Department of Justice and other government officials, officials saying they're moving on from this. I wish that we could.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

The people who had the authority to intervene chose silence, secrecy and self preservation and called it Justice.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

I'm here to make sure no one.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

In the Justice Department, no matter their title, rewrites history or escapes accountability.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

This time it isn't a monster pedophile who is doing the exploiting, but our very own government.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Hi again everyone. It's now 5 o' clock in New York. If there was one thing that the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse wanted from their Attorney General, Pam Bondi today, it was some sort of accountability for the Justice Department's complete mishandling of the files documenting their abuse. But what they got from the woman who said she had Jeffrey Epstein's client list sitting on her desk one year ago in a TV interview was stonewalling deflection and lame personal attacks against lawmakers. Many survivors were in the room for the hearing, and when Pam Bondi was given the opportunity to apologize to them directly for the haphazard way that she and her department have handled the release of the files. We'll show you what happened.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

If you are willing, please raise your hands if you have still not been able to meet with with this Department of Justice.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

Will you turn to them now and.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

Apologize for what your Department of Justice has put them through with the absolutely unacceptable release of the Epstein files and their information.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Congresswoman, you sat before Merrick Garland sat in this chair twice.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

Attorney General Bondi, Can I finish my answer? No. I'm going to reclaim my time because.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

I asked you this.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

The Attorney General asked a question, Attorney.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

General, that I would like to answer, which is, will you turn to the survivors? This is not about anybody that came before you. It is about you taking responsibility for.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

For your Department of Justice and the harm that it has done to the survivors who are standing right behind you.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

And are waiting for you to turn.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

To them and apologize for what your Department of Justice has said.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

We're not gonna get in the gutter.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

For her theatrics.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Describing the victims as the gutter. That's new. For the record, there was no apology. Attorney General Pambani never turned around and apologized to the victims of Jeffrey Epps Epstein's abuse. And it wasn't just Democrats that Pam Bondi acted like that with or sparred with. Here's what happened when Republican Congressman Thomas Massie pressed Attorney General Pam Bondi on what looked to him like an attempt by the Justice Department to protect the powerful people in Jeffrey Epstein's orbit. While releasing personal information. And the survivors names, Are you able.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

To track who in your organization made this massive failure and released the victims names? Are you able to track who it was that obscured Les Wexner's name? As a co conspirator in an FBI document? Do you have that kind of accountability?

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

I believe Wexner's name was listed more than 4,000 times about. I had.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

Yeah, I already told you that. This is where he's listed as a Coke.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

I finished my answer.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Come on, Let me finish my answer.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

We corrected that. Within 40 minutes, he was already. You're acting like everybody's trying to cover up Wexner's name.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

Reclaiming my time.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

Answer this question.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

Reclaiming my time, he was.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Mr. Chairman, how this works.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

Can you give me Within 40 minutes, Wexner's name was added back.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

Within 40 minutes of me catching you red handed.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

Red handed.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

There was one redaction where he's listed as a coconut.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

And we invited you in. We. And this guy has Trump Derangement syndrome.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

There is no credible information. None. If there were, I would bring the case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals. Is that your position as well?

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

My position is any victim who comes forward. Of course, we would love to hear from them. 1-800- call FBI. Did you ask Merrick Garland that the last four years? Did you talk about Epstein?

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

I am reclaiming my time. I'm glad you're asking about Merrick Garland. This is bigger than Watergate.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Yeah, it's about how it went when it comes to the fact that multiple Trump administration officials are named in the Epstein files. That government official, Pam Bondi showed zero interest in looking into or understanding better their ties to the dead convicted child sex trafficker.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

Has the Justice Department specifically asked Secretary Lutnick about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein?

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

He has addressed those ties himself.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

Has the DOJ asked Secretary Phelan about his ties to. To Jeffrey Epstein?

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

I don't know whether he has addressed those or not.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

Has the Deputy. Has Deputy Secretary Feinberg talked the Department of Justice about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein, yes or no? Has the Department of Justice talked to Secretary, Deputy Secretary Feinberg about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein, which are clearly spelled out in the files? It's a very simple question. It's not a trick question. I'm just asking you.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Yeah, I'm stunned that you want to continue talking about.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

Oh, my gosh. We have evidence that three senior officials within the Trump administration have ties to Jeffrey Epstein. And what I can.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

What ties mean?

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

The American people have a right to know the answers to this. These are senior officials in the Trump administration. This is not a game, Secretary. I'm Attorney General. My apologies. I couldn't tell.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

About how the whole day went. Pam Bondi making clear that she was there to perform for an audience of one. It's not clear if even he liked that. It's for the audience. It should have mattered. Forget about the American people. But the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell's abuse. Here's what survivor Danny Bensky said to my colleague Ali Vitale.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

It's exhausting to hear her not answer questions. I mean, basically, she's just evading every question. At one point, she talked about what is Jekyll and Hyde like? Anything that she can do to eat up the time and anything she can do to not even humanize survivors. And I think that that's the biggest takeaway for a lot of us. She won't even turn around and acknowledge us as people. She won't even look at us after we have gone through so much and the DOJ has failed time and time again. It is just such a grave miscarriage of justice.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

That's where we start the hour. Tara Palmeri's back with us. She writes the Red letter on Substack. She has hosted two acclaimed podcast series on the Epstein case called Jeffrey Epstein and Power the Maxwells. Also joining us, political analysts and host of the Bulwark Podcast, Tim Miller's here. And joining me at the table, legal analyst Christy Greenberg. She's a former criminal Division deputy chief at SDNY. She is the host of the YouTube show Courtside. Tim Miller, let me show it show you what Joe Rogan has to say about the Trump administration's handling of all of this.

[Reporter/Panelist (possibly Kristi or another panelist)]

Oh, FBI concluded Jeffrey Epstein wasn't running a sex trafficking ring for powerful men. File show. That's the gaslightiest gaslighting I've ever heard in my life.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Again, not to sort of obscure the fact that they've lost the plot, that the survivors have never expressed a partisan utterance since they've sort of mustered the courage to be part of the conversation and calls for accountability. That the issue was kept alive by the right, to its credit, over the last nine years and that these performances aren't the fus to the left that I think Pam Bondi thinks they are. They're an F U to the core of the Trump MAGA base that sent him back there.

[Reporter/Panelist (possibly Kristi or another panelist)]

Yeah, I think that's right, Nicole. It felt like a very not of the moment performance by Pam Bondi. He called the performance for an audience of one. I guess that's right. It also kind of felt like the type of typical performance, I don't know, from one of the hearings passed about Benghazi or Hillary's emails or something. Really. We're just trying to get clips for Fox News primetime. I don't know that this issue calls for that. I think that there are a lot of people, particularly in the mega base throughout the country, that want to know who was implicated here. And some of the testimony today obviously had some political valence to it. But like the one example, in addition to the clips you played, that struck me. Jerry Nadler was asking her and he said, how many of Epstein's co conspirators have you indicted? How many perpetrators are you even investigating? And her answer to that was to yell at him and say, this is theatrics. This is Europe. She called him washed up. And I just don't know who that plays for because that question was not a political question. That wasn't even necessarily about Trump or the Cabinet question was about who else did this. Like obviously there were other men that were perpetrators here that were committing sexual crimes against girls. And people want to know who it is and people want to know if you're investigating it. And just like dumping all these files and then calling us names is not sufficient to that task. And so to me, I think that was like the big miss for her, for her to do this kind of yelling and screaming theatrical performance on a matter that is so sensitive and that people across party lines in the country care about.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Yeah, you've got 81% of all Americans who believe Donald Trump is hiding something in the Epstein files. You've got as much or more interest in seeing the files released on the right than on the left. You've got no partisan divide in questions about transparency and suspicions about the COVID up. But here was Pam Bondi's answer to what we should be talking about instead of transparency, accountability and justice. Her thoughts? Well, I'll show you. Speaks for itself. She thinks we should be covered.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

They are talking about Epstein today. This has been around since the Obama administration. This administration released over 3 million pages of documents. Over 3 million. And Donald Trump signed that law to release all of those documents. He is the most transparent president in the nation's history. And none of them, none of them ask Merrick Garland. Over the last four years, one word about Jeffrey Epstein. How ironic is that? You know why? Because Donald Trump, The Dow, the Dow right now is over. The dow is over $50,000.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

I don't know why you're laughing. We're laughing because we're not on cnbc, sweetie. I mean, what is that? I don't, I mean, Tara, I, I think the Dow is really important. But you're in a room with survivors. Some of them were children at the time of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell's child sex trafficking ring. Criminals, hardened criminals. And you know, she's the person who said, quote, I've got the list on my desk. So the whole like befuddlement that she likes to play there, Tara, about white people asking her about it. She made binders. She made really big binders. I don't even know that you can get them at the office supply store. They seem special order so thick. She made binders and handed them out to right wing, you know, I don't know, pundits, people in the right wing world. After she said on a Fox News interview that she had, you know, quote, the list on her desk and then she brought the right wing pundits into the White House and she met with them in the Roosevelt Room and she handed out these massive binders. So she's the one that pumped this story up until she face planted. I mean, what is she trying to do if you can figure that one out?

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

I have no idea, Nicole. I mean it's really heartbreaking to see what happened today because I remember around the time that the files were going to be released the first time in December when we were supposed to get the first, we were supposed to get all the Epstein files. That was the actual deadline. I remember one of the survivors telling me we have a meeting with Pam Bondi and they were really excited about it. I mean, they have been grasping at straws, wanting some sort of vindication, some sort of support, hoping, praying, believing that maybe this administration will do the right thing, despite being shown along the way that that is not what they are interested in. And, you know, I was told, and I said, I asked, well, can I report on this that you want to meet with Pam Bonney? And they said, no, no, no, no, no. We want to keep it low key because we want her to follow through. We really want to meet with her. We want to make our case. They truly believe that if they could look her in the eye, they could, like, reach in there and grab something human. They really did. And they really believe that to this day. And that's why they still go on Capitol Hill every single time. And they stand there. And honestly, that was a humiliation for her, really. But that was a horrible experience for them to have to stand there and look at her back while she snarled and sounded like Amy Poehler from that SNL skit, like, you losers sounded like some mean girl. When we're talking about child predation, it's like, it's so off script. It's so weird. Like Tim said, this is a very odd thing to witness. It's a disgusting thing to witness. And you have people there who really believed in her at one time. And of course, she stood them up. She stood them up and she continues to. And that was exactly why they were asked, have any of you met with Pam Bonney? Why have they not met with the attorney general? This is the biggest case in this country, in the world right now. Why are they not sitting in the FBI's headquarters right now? Sitting down for more 302s?

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Yeah. Thomas Massie, another Republican, chalks it up to incompetence. Let me show you that, Christy.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

The recourse, and I keep reminding the folks at DOJ this is that the next attorney general can bring charges against them for breaking the law. I think that's what's compelled them to produce 3 million documents. And now they're claiming that it's incompetence. Like their defense today is incompetence for why they haven't given us all the documents.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

I mean, this is sort of where the rubber meets the road. This is a Republican congressman who says that the next attorney general, after the Trump chapter is over, quote, can bring charges against them for breaking the law. The law requires them to turn over all the files.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

Yeah, I don't think we should be waiting that long. I don't think that's the answer. This Congress now can take action. There are committees that can file a lawsuit and just say you are not complying with the law. We want you to release the files and here are all the ways you're not in compliance. And go to a judge and try and get some relief now, not years from now. Now that's what they should be doing.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

All right. No one's going anywhere. We have much more with everyone on our panel about what happened today, about how Attorney General Pam Bonney dodged question after question after question when it came to the Epstein files. Also ahead for us, how Donald Trump Trump continues to corrupt US Intelligence as his hand picked Director of National Intelligence runs point at his direction on a criminal investigation into widely debunked claims of election fraud in an election Donald Trump clearly and convincingly lost in the year 2020. We are lucky enough to be joined by former Principal Deputy DNI Sue Gordon on how Donald Trump's actions are making us less safe right now. Sue will be our guest later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

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[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

By show of hands, how many of.

[Reporter/Panelist (possibly Kristi or another panelist)]

You or your loved ones actually have met with the Department of Justice and provided testimony and estimate and evidence? None. And of those of you who have not met, which is everyone, how many.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

Of you have reached out, either individually.

[Reporter/Panelist (possibly Kristi or another panelist)]

Or through a lawyer or representative to offer to provide testimony and evidence?

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

All of them. And of those of you, all of you who have reached out, how many.

[Reporter/Panelist (possibly Kristi or another panelist)]

Of you were denied or ignored by.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

The Department of Justice? All of them.

[Reporter/Panelist (possibly Kristi or another panelist)]

And despite the shameful and despicable efforts by Ms. Bondi and her department to intimidate you, how many of you are still willing to speak to the Department of Justice?

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

All of them. Well, Ms. Bondi, it looks like you.

[Reporter/Panelist (possibly Kristi or another panelist)]

Have some more witness time.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Kristi, why wouldn't they just sit and talk to them?

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

So any normal person in that situation, any normal prosecutor would have turned around and looked at them first of all, shown them that basic decency and respect, and said, make sure to leave all your information, your lawyer's information, contact information with me before you leave. I will make sure someone from the Department of Justice reaches out to you this week. Right. Like, how hard is that? Again, that's not a partisan issue. If you are a victim, if you are a crime victim who wants to speak to a prosecutor, wants to speak to an FBI agent, you should have the ability to do that. And this isn't just any case. This is a case that Pam Bondi has signed filings saying that there is extensive public interest in, with the most infamous pedophile in American history. So right after that clip, she was going around, like, showing a picture of an illegal alien that had committed a crime. Why aren't we talking about this? What issue do you have? Why do you keep trying to deflect from talking about the Epstein files and this crime that you have told the court and you consider important. So it makes no sense. Not only does it not make sense, I would argue it's a violation of the Crime Victim's Rights act, which says that crime victims have a right to confer with the government. It also says they have a right to fairness, dignity and respect. And what she just did there, I mean, how smug she was, keeping her back to them, not acknowledging that complaint, which is a very valid complaint, and just saying, well, just call a hotline. No, no, deal with it. But she doesn't want to step up. And I suspect the reason she doesn't is coming back to something Marjorie Taylor Greene said when she talked to Donald Trump and said, why don't you just give the victims an audience in the Oval Office. Why don't you meet with them? And he said they don't deserve an audience. And so she's taking her cues from him. She. It's very clear from. You see the binder of Zinger she's got. She's a puppet. She doesn't have any independent train of thought here. She had. For each member of Congress, she had what she was going to say to kind of come back to whatever that they were saying. And it's all scripted. She doesn't have independent thoughts. This is not her Department of Justice. She is not running things here. She's clearly a puppet. Donald Trump doesn't want to meet with these victims. He has made it clear from the top he has no respect for them and isn't interested, and therefore she's taking her cues from him. And it's a disgrace.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Tara. I guess I'm mad at myself that I can still be shocked and horrified by Donald Trump and the people that work for him, but I'm shocked and horrified that they have made enemies out of the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

I don't know how you can do that. I mean, these women were. Are victims when they were children of one of the most vile crimes. And, you know, I would agree with Christy. They said case closed without conferring with the victims, and that does violate their Crime Victims Rights Act. I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that you have to talk to the victims of the crime before you decide the verdict. Case closed. We're ending this. And, you know, all along, the Justice Department hasn't cared about them at all. Pam Bondi seemed completely heartless. She seemed completely soulless, frankly, out there. She seemed like she was working for Trump. She was Trump's defense attorney, and she had no interest in these women. A thousand victims, by the way, all with the same stories. And yes, she didn't seem to care at all. And I don't see how that's gonna help the Republicans going into the midterms. This is not the face they want. And it was a train wreck. It was a disaster. I don't know how else to describe it, but today was. Was an embarrassment for them, for the entire party.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Yeah. I mean, and I don't know that Letnick could look any worse than he already does Tim Miller, but he sort of did. Like, if you've got someone, she's the one that was going on and on in defending Tulsi Gabbard. Being at the Georgia election office raid by saying, quote, we're inseparable, end quote. Like we're besties. But she hasn't talked to Lutnick. I mean, her explanation was that, you know, basically, like out of the hangover, you know, three best friends. But she doesn't want to claim Letnick, who happened to go to the island. And she's never talked to Lutnick after he just said yesterday before Congress that he and his wife and his kids and his nannies all went to the island, and he and his wife and his kids and all the nannies left the island. She wasn't interested in talking to him about what he might have seen. I mean, the whole sort of farce that she had any interest in getting any information about any of the crimes that were committed and had nothing other than just disdain for the victim. She didn't seem interested in trying to disabuse anyone of that notion today.

[Reporter/Panelist (possibly Kristi or another panelist)]

No, she didn't. On the Lutnick, I guess the good news for him is that Kevin Hassett, the economic advisor, said that Lutnick was his bestie. Yesterday.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Someone claimed Lutnick.

[Reporter/Panelist (possibly Kristi or another panelist)]

Oh, yeah. So we got different lunch tables, I guess, in the White House, where they're, you know, I'll talk about who their besties are as they. As they uncover for each other.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

So gross.

[Reporter/Panelist (possibly Kristi or another panelist)]

I just. Look, if you're somebody that actually did care about this, there are people that genuinely cared about this, either on the right or within the kind of newer part of the Trump coalition was shorthanded with the Rogan verse. Right. Trump has had to make a lot of people kind of eat a lot of crap over the last nine years who support him. That's just a part of the deal of going along with Donald Trump. But people don't like to be made to be fools and made out to be idiots. And that's what they're trying to do. They're just trying to basically say, hey, this thing that you cared about that you told your audience you cared about, or if you're in the audience that you posted about and read about and learned about where you were concerned, that there was this elite cabal of people that were sexually trafficking young girls, of men that were sexually trafficking young girls, and now I'm here to tell you that don't believe your lying eyes. There's not really anything more to look into. And in fact, what you should care about is that your 401k is going up. It's just like, how stupid do you think people are? In this situation, like this playbook just does not work and they're playing their own supporters for fools and there'll be some of them that are me happy to play along. I'm sure Hannity will give her a good review tonight over on Fox, but a lot of these other folks, they're not signing up for this.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Yeah, and it's an interesting migration. If Hannity does align himself with her. I mean, it is, it has been in the past something that Republicans have talked about. You know, an elite child sex trafficking ring is a bad thing. That used to not have a partisan take on it, but I guess Pambadi makes clear that now it does. Tara Palmeri, Tim Miller, Christy Greenberg, thank you so much for starting us off and watching all that with me. When we come back, how Tulsi Gabbard worked her way back into Donald Trump's good graces by spearheading an investigation into widely debunked claims of election fraud in the state of Georgia. Our dear friend Sue Gordon will be here. She's an essential voice in explaining how Trump is politicizing our country's intelligence agencies. That's next. Stay with us.

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[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

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[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

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[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

A wise and supremely well qualified and informed friend of the show once described it to us as, quote, antithetical to the craft of intelligence that is going into any task or investigation with the expressed intent of reaching a specific conclusion. In other words, intelligence should guide and ground the mission, not the other way around. And yet. And yet, how else is one expected to interpret the Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard, not so covertly attending a raid on an elections office in Fulton County, Georgia, One initiated, as we now know, thanks to an unsealed affidavit by a Trump administration lawyer whose previous work includes trying to overturn the results of a free and fair election in 2020. Fresh reporting in the New York Times adds new detail to the days leading up to that highly controversial raid to during which the FBI seized more than 650 boxes of ballots and other election related materials. Quote. In late January, Tulsi Gabbard was leading a meeting on Syria in the Situation Room when Donald Trump abruptly changed course by reminding her of an earlier chat on a subject he regarded as Even more urgent, Ms. Gabbard's role in reopening and expanding the investigation of the 2020 election. Now Trump was ordering Tulsi Gabbard to help oversee an FBI investigation of his baseless claims of irregularities in the vote. That's according to people acknowledged at the meeting. Quote, you go do that, you get it done. Trump suddenly told her. I want to bring in that supremely well informed and qualified friend of the show we mentioned, former principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence Sue Gordon is here. I've been dying to ask you about the things you're seeing and reading about Tulsi Gabbard's presence at an FBI raid of a Georgia election office. Your thoughts?

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

Oh, so many thoughts. Let's see if I can't be tight and focused for you today and leave some air, because sometimes I don't. So first things first. The DNI has zero, zero domestic authorities. She doesn't have law enforcement authority. She doesn't conduct domestic intel collection. She doesn't direct domestic investigations. And she doesn't have arrest or subpoena or prosecutorial power.

[Reporter/Host (possibly Nicole)]

So.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

Why is she there? She has no authority to be there. She does have the responsibility to integrate intelligence to understand the threats that present. So she can receive information that is collected domestically to be used in assessments and she can provide intelligence for the purpose of law enforcement. But in their case, but she, her authorities do not extend to this. And so what I think we have to infer, and it's a little bit related to your last segment, is what we're seeing is the misapplication or borrowing of trust. Right. So what we're trying to do is to add legitimacy to what's going on in Georgia by taking a figure that has legitimacy, but it isn't in this thing. So they're trying to send the message that this is important. Right. And we have big important people on the ground. The challenge of that Is it is just one more piece of eroding the American people's trust in anything this administration is doing. Right. When you cross the streams between intelligence and law enforcement, it confuses people. It erodes what the strength of intelligence is, and it confuses what it's not. And so. So this idea that he's going to give it to her to do or that her presence there means he's really serious about finding it actually just is completely in the wrong direction. And I think you're seeing this, not that he's not trying to do that and not that he's not taking advantage of the fact that Director Gabbard kind of lives in the gray zone between authority and celebrity. The problem is she's not carrying with her in that moment the responsibility that comes with her job and not being accountable for that craft you talked about. Other than that, I think it's fine.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

That she's there, but I mean, it's an important thing for people to understand. I asked people that I served with who worked in intelligence agencies. I mean, they were so cautious about even going anywhere domestically because it could look like they were doing. I mean, to have no domestic authorities, explain what that means. I mean, she had no authority to do anything. So I have a hard time understanding why she was there.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

Right. Not only does she not have any authority to do anything, all intelligence authorities are foreign authorities. Right. The ability to operate overseas, the ability to hide the hand of the US Government, none of that is to go after here and think about how important that is in America and to civil liberties and the thing we're doing. You almost could get to a minority report situation if you imagined that the intelligence community, that is about possibility, not about proof, is now out there looking at what US Citizens are doing. So it's just a massively fundamental misunderstanding of how important that separation is. And you're 100% right. We wouldn't go anywhere near it. We just don't. So the fact that the DNI herself is there, and. Can I just do a brief digression, please? Even if you believed that there was something evidentiary there that might reveal some aspect of signature of foreign participation, she's not the one that knows that she's a political appointee. And yes, she has military experience, and yes, she's been on intelligence committee, but she's not the person. If we believed that something like that were in evidence, we do. We detail an intelligence officer to the FBI to be under their control. So this is just such, at best a misunderstanding of how government and how intelligence and how law enforcement work at best. And at worst, you're trying to send an impression of something that just isn't true. And can, can we just talk one more second? Wait. Now we think there's foreign influence. Wait, I thought that was a hoax.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

Right.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

So, I mean, we have just spent years with this administration, said there's no foreign influence. And now when we want to prove that what we know was a legitimate election isn't, we're going to send the dni. But I think the American people are increasingly onto it, and I think this borrowing of trust is starting to be revealed and people just aren't buying it. You mentioned it in the earlier section, right? Bringing up the Dow Jones average in a hearing about the Epstein files. People are getting onto, well, what are we doing here? Why would she speak on that? So, yeah, I think cracks are showing, but this is just a misuse and it leads to distrust. And distrust is how our institutions fail, even when they seem to still be working.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

I want to ask you about some other big developments. The six lawmakers who told men and women of the military not to follow illegal orders, they tried to indict them yesterday. It didn't go well. I also want to talk to you about what you just mentioned, that the people maybe starting in Minneapolis, but from coast to coast are not having it. We'll have that conversation on the other side of a short break. Stay with us. So you've been recognized this week with an award. I want to brag about you and on you in front of you. You received a lifetime achievement award from the National Security Space Association. And he said this, quote, I'm trained as a zoologist. So what a zoologist knows is that there are moments of strategic uncertainty when it's not clear how life will go on. We're at one of these moments. And I know that our community, with our history, is better positioned to handle this moment than any others. That struck me on a million different levels. But talk about this moment.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

Yeah, we don't know the ideals of our country are as valid today as they ever were. But the mechanisms that our founders put in place that were predicated on shared norms are showing their wear and tear. In other words, people are using the seams. And when the American people vote, part of the thing that allows the ascension of someone like President Trump is that the government hasn't been as good as it needs to be for this moment. And so seeing that moment, recognizing that we must build new, accepting the fact that the good news is this team isn't going to probably leave us with new edifices that we need to undo even as they might break what we had then we have to be prepared to find out how we're going to address our ideals newly. And I could have taken my conversation about my amazing space community, and I started in that business and worked for the icons. And so I do believe that we have real opportunity there. But I also think the American people, you hear me over and over again say, I trust the American people. And I think we're seeing it, you know, that in juries, they're making their own decision. In Minnesota, they're making their voices heard. The Olympic athletes remember that part of being proud of the United States is proud of our heritage, that we can say what we need to say even as we're proud of who we are. So this idea that we are at a moment where the future is not going to look like the past, and we must figure out how to be ready for that. Our national foundation is strong even as the edifices that we had trusted and built our understanding on have been challenged. And we're going to have to figure out how to do something with those anew.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

If you were assessing America from abroad and you looked at the weakness of our private law firms who capitulated to Donald Trump, not all of them, but a lot of the most prominent ones, one after the other after the other, our most prestigious universities who went in and did deals with Donald Trump, gave him millions and millions of dollars, one after the other after the other after the other, the silence for a long time of the powerful, the acquiescence or complicity of the most powerful and innovative minds in technology. And then you saw this Midwestern bright spot, the people of the city of Minneapolis. What would you like, what would you say about America? You would say bigger balls on the people living in Minneapolis than a single one of the tech bros. You probably wouldn't say that, but what would you say?

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

Probably not. I think what I'd say is we are seeing how they assess this moment. They assess that the United States isn't going to be the partner it was. And our friends are having to figure out how they survive in this world if we're not the biggest gravitational pull.

[Reporter/Panelist (possibly Kristi or another panelist)]

Right?

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

That's why you're seeing that going on. Our adversaries and competitors are saying, oh, I see now this is all fair game, right? Those stodgy people that used to be six in the mud when we would try and exercise our power geopolitically and used to come to the rescue of the small. Well, they're not going to do that now. They want to play in the power game. Great. We have it. So listen, we're seeing what both friends and adversaries and competitors see in us. And I think we should be concerned as a nation that they're going to try and take advantage of that or re establish their positions. But what we know as a nation and what is so fundamentally different is exactly what you see in Minnesota. They're not as worried about. I have real problems with the people who have made their millions, who have derived their power from the rule of law and now walking away because they think they can get it anyway without any sense of responsibility for maintaining that environment. And I think they're not going to have pressure internationally because, remember, one of the reasons why the people deal with the United States is not Donald Trump is because of how powerful America is, including that innovation engine that the tech CEOs are part of. But they will not carry us forward. And so what we know as a nation, if the Congress would get their act, continue to get their act together and do their job, if the people in tech realize that they only have their money not because they're so dang smart, but because there's been a framework that allowed people to trade with us and then we convince the American people that this I can save you is fool's gold. And there isn't really any there. There's, I think what we know and what I hope we build on is those elements of our strength. But the institutions have got to accept that we don't get to just hold what we had before and fight for what was before. We actually have to become new. But I love what I'm seeing now. There is so much I hate and I think people need to accept that. There's no call from the governor coming as though there's going to be some revelation that's going to cause this administration to go away. No, we've had all those and it's still here. What we need to get folks focused on is all the power they have. The president can call things red or blue states, but we know they're not red or blue states. There are states that. That's what their people decided they were going to vote for on that day. Yeah, I think we need to focus on them. Yeah.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

All right. With your help, we'll continue to do that. Sue Gordon, thank you so much for joining us today. Sue referenced it, another act of bravery by an American athlete at the Winter Olympics speaking out about what is happening in Minneapolis? We'll show it to you after a quick break. Stay with we continue to hear a steady drip of criticism of the Trump administration's immigration tactics from U.S. olympic athletes in Milan. The latest comes from a member of the curling team, Rich Ruhonen, who is also a lawyer talking about his home state of Minnesota. Watch.

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We have a constitution and it allows us to freedom of the press and freedom of speech, protects us from unreasonable searches and seizures and makes it that we have to, you know, have probable cause to be pulled over. And what's happening in Minnesota is wrong. I want to make it clear that we are out here. We love our country. We're playing for the U.S. we're playing for Team USA and we're playing for each other. And we're playing for our family and our friends that sacrificed so much to get here today.

[Host/Moderator (possibly Nicole or main show host)]

We love our country. We hear that over and over again from those brave athletes. We'll stay on top of that. One more break. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes. We are grateful.

[VRBoCare/Thumbtack/Angie.com/Monday.com Ad Narrator]

With verbo care, help is always ready before, during and after your stay. We've planned for the plot twists, so support is always available because a great trip starts with peace of mind.