Podcast Summary

Podcast: Deadline: White House
Episode: "Taking Their Case to the Tabloids"
Date: November 21, 2025
Host: Nicolle Wallace (guest-hosted by Lisa Menendez)
Panelists/Guests:

• Lisa Rubin (Senior Legal Reporter)
• Andrew Weissmann (Legal Analyst, former DOJ official)
• Mark Elias (Voting Rights Attorney, Founder of Democracy Docket)
• Mara Gay (NYT Opinion Writer & Analyst)

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the Trump administration’s increasingly brazen legal and political tactics as their high-profile cases against perceived "enemies" struggle in court. Faced with faltering prosecutions, the administration is openly attacking judges and leveraging media to shape public perception, particularly through tabloids like the New York Post. The panel examines the crumbling case against former FBI Director Jim Comey, federal attacks on the judiciary, and courtroom incompetence surrounding Trump-appointed prosecutors. Other topics include unprecedented dissenting judicial opinions in redistricting cases, the pending release of Jeffrey Epstein-related files, and new investigations into Trump DOJ officials.

Key Discussion Points

1. Trump DOJ's Struggles and Attacks on Judges

[00:52–3:33]

• Context: Following a disastrous day in court regarding the prosecution of Jim Comey, Trump-appointed prosecutor Lindsey Halligan goes on the offensive in the New York Post.
• Misrepresentation: Halligan claims Judge Michael Nachmanoff called her a “puppet,” though in fact the judge only questioned if Halligan was executing the President’s directives.
• Escalating Scrutiny: DOJ’s case management criticized by another judge for “profound investigative missteps.”
• Panel Analysis:
  • Mark Elias: Trump’s legal teams are often incompetent, losing post-2020 election cases and in general. Their pattern: “make outrageous legal claims… find lawyers willing to sacrifice their own integrity… then lash out and tell lies when they fail.” [03:33]
  • Attacking judges is a last-ditch tactic when their cases break down, but it's dangerous for the rule of law.

2. Unprecedented Nature of DOJ’s Public Campaigns Against Judges

[05:05–6:34]

• Lisa Rubin: Notes Todd Blanche (Deputy Attorney General) calling for a “war against the federal judiciary” at a Federalist Society event, recruiting "soldiers" for this "war."
• Andrew Weissmann: Stresses that attacking judges—including Trump appointees—undermines the last institutional check in government.

Related Quotes

• “It’s not common to see US Attorneys go out and attack judges. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that particular circumstance happen before.” – Lisa Rubin [05:11]

3. Consequences: Threats Against Judges Skyrocket

[05:57–07:53]

• Judges face record-level threats, tracked with Trump's attacks on judiciary.
• Panel links these attacks to broader damage to legal norms and safety.

Notable Quote

• “One of the last checks we have in the system is the federal judiciary… and at this point we are dealing with a war on the judiciary.” – Andrew Weissmann [06:34]

4. White House and DOJ Independence Eroded

[07:53–10:04]

• Michael Dreeben (Comey's lawyer): Argues Halligan was following direct White House orders, highlighting crumbled norms of DOJ independence post-Watergate.
• Lisa Rubin: Outlines how Halligan, with no prosecutorial experience, followed presidential tweets as legal directives.

Key Quote and Context

• “She didn’t have prosecutorial experience, but she took on the job to… carry out the President’s directive.” – Michael Dreeben, as quoted [07:53]

5. The Declination Memo Bombshell

[10:04–13:08]

• Fact Unveiled: DOJ tried to hide the existence of an internal memo recommending against prosecuting Comey; ultimately, this was confirmed in court.
• Andrew Weissmann: DOJ's attempt to use deliberative process privilege doesn’t hold here due to the strong evidence of vindictive and selective prosecution.
  • “It is obvious… there was a declination memo and career people and even political people were against this prosecution.” [11:04]

6. Ty Cobb’s Blistering Legal Assessment

[13:08–14:07]

• Ty Cobb (ex-Trump lawyer):
  • “It’s a vindictive prosecution. Halligan was not legally appointed. The prosecutorial misconduct here is so severe that almost any judge would toss it... I think this case is dead.” [13:18]

7. The Paradox of Competence and Incompetence in Trump’s Legal Wars

[14:07–16:34]

• Mark Elias: Trump allies are skilled at destruction, but fundamentally incompetent at building a successful legal case.
  • “They are very good at breaking things. They are not good at anything other than random destruction.” [14:41]
• The system’s saving grace is that legal incompetence exposes and defeats anti-democratic efforts.
• Yet, there remains a high personal cost for targets like Comey, Tish James, etc.

8. DOJ Flip-Flops on Grand Jury Voting

[16:34–19:28]

• Lisa Rubin reveals DOJ reversed its court admission—that the full grand jury had never heard/voted on the Comey indictment—by blaming a “mistake” on the jury foreperson.
• Rubin notes this reversal could warrant dismissing the indictment with prejudice, and possibly bar complaints against Halligan.
• The panel compares this ethically to Rudy Giuliani’s disbarment.

Key Moment

• “A mistake so stunning… you could hear a pin drop because of the stunned silence.” – Lisa Rubin [16:41]

9. Texas Redistricting Victory & Judicial Dissent Meltdown

[21:47–30:48]

• Panel covers a major victory against Texas’s racially gerrymandered maps.
• Judge Jerry Smith’s dissent is remarkable for personal and political attacks, invoking George Soros 17 times and singling out Mark Elias and colleagues.
• Mark Elias: Expresses bewilderment at the ad hominem attacks—
  • “He mentions George Soros 17 times. It is wildly unusual... I’m not sure he’s doing any favors to his side with these attacks.” [24:53]
• Emphasizes that the actual legal fight was for 13 Black and Latino voters discriminated against by the state.

Big Takeaway:

• Courts, not public opinion or tabloid wars, are where these fights will ultimately be won or lost. Elias urges patience and faith in the system when challenging gerrymandered maps in other key states.

10. Pending Release (or Not) of Jeffrey Epstein Files

[32:50–36:36]

• Trump touts that he signed a bill to release DOJ files on Epstein, but the administration can still withhold documents “for ongoing investigations.”
• Andrew Weissmann: Argues Trump could release everything now and raises doubts transparency will occur.
  • “The President… can simply order the release of everything in those files… He still today could answer the very simple question of whether everything with his name on it… will be released. He has not done that.” [34:04]
• Mara Gay: For survivors, the fight isn’t over. The story endures because of the survivors’ persistence, congressional pressure, and public cynicism about elites escaping accountability.

11. Federal Probe into Trump Officials in Mortgage Fraud Investigations

[37:59–42:32]

• New scoop: Federal grand jury in Maryland is investigating whether top Trump officials improperly appointed unauthorized figures to participate in mortgage fraud investigations targeting Trump critics (Adam Schiff, Tish James).
• Andrew Weissmann: Notes this as the rare instance of a Trump-era official facing real criminal scrutiny.
  • “We are used to [prior administrations] investigating their own party as well as the opposition… That does not happen here… It’ll be interesting to see whether the Maryland U.S. attorney remains in office.” [39:07]
• Mara Gay: Suggests this shows a part of government still functioning independently.

12. Closing Note: NYC Mayor's White House Visit and Trump’s ‘Sedition’ Rhetoric

[43:17–43:54]

• NYC Mayor-elect Zoran Mamdani will meet Trump at the White House, maintaining a tone of public service despite Trump’s attacks.
• Wallace teases upcoming segments on Trump’s extreme rhetoric, including accusations of “sedition” against Democrats.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Mark Elias:

  • "One thing that has been a constant throughline of Donald Trump’s political career is having really incompetent lawyers." [03:33]
  • "They are very good at breaking things. They are not good at anything other than random destruction." [14:41]

• Lisa Rubin:

  • "It's not common to see US Attorneys go out and attack judges. I don't think I've ever seen that particular circumstance happen before." [05:11]
  • "A mistake so stunning... you could hear a pin drop because of the stunned silence." [16:41]

• Andrew Weissmann:

  • "The last check we have in a system that's supposed to have checks and balances." [07:53]
  • "[Trump] can simply order the release of everything in those files… He still today could answer the very simple question of whether everything with his name on it… will be released. He has not done that." [34:04]

• Ty Cobb:

  • “This case is going to be thrown out… It’s a vindictive prosecution… the misconduct is so severe that almost any judge would toss it.” [13:18]

Conclusion

This episode exposes the Trump administration’s escalating attacks on the judiciary and legal process as cornerstone prosecutions implode. The panel cuts through spin to illuminate how a mix of legal incompetence and aggressive public campaigns has put the DOJ in crisis, but also offered a strange reassurance: the courts and ethical frameworks are, for now, holding the line. The discussions on gerrymandering, the Epstein files, and new criminal investigations underscore the stakes for democracy, transparency, and the rule of law as the 2024-2025 cycle barrels ahead.