Deadline: White House
Episode: “Terrific guy’ to ‘not a fan’”
Host: Nicolle Wallace
Date: December 18, 2025
Overview
In this gripping episode, Nicolle Wallace leads an in-depth discussion on the complex and controversial relationship between Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, exploring new reporting from The New York Times as the Department of Justice approaches a key deadline for releasing the Epstein files. Through conversations with journalists, legal analysts, and an Epstein survivor, the episode delves into themes of accountability, survivor solidarity, and the persistent quest for transparency while exposing the obstacles survivors and journalists face in seeking truth and justice. Additionally, the episode touches on Trump’s latest controversial business dealings and features a moving segment with Michelle Obama on the power of civic engagement.
Main Themes & Purpose
- Revelation of New Reporting: Dissecting groundbreaking New York Times stories about the ties between Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein.
- Survivors’ Struggle for Transparency: Emotional insights from survivor Danielle Bensky about the push for truth and accountability, as the DOJ nears a deadline to disclose Epstein-related files.
- Political and Legal Hurdles: Analysis of governmental resistance and red-tape hindering disclosure and the consequences for public trust.
- Power and Exploitation: Examining the culture of misogyny, indifference, and manipulation surrounding Trump, Epstein, and their circles.
- Trump’s Pursuit of Personal Gain: Critique of potential conflicts of interest in Trump’s latest $6B media merger.
- Broader Societal Impacts: Michelle Obama’s powerful commentary on engagement, voting rights, dignity, and resilience.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Trump & Epstein: A Complex Relationship [00:34 - 04:54]
- Nicolle Wallace frames the episode with Trump's shifting public stance on Epstein—“From 'terrific guy' to 'not a fan'.”
- NYT Reporting: Draws on 30+ interviews (“over the years, Mr. Epstein or his partner, Ghislaine Maxwell, introduced at least six women who have accused them of grooming or abuse to Mr. Trump… One was a minor at the time. None have accused Mr. Trump himself of inappropriate behavior.” [01:15])
- Culture of Trophy Hunting and competition over women: “It was like a pissing contest who had the most women,” says an anonymous survivor ([02:43]).
- No direct evidence of Trump’s involvement in trafficking, but the nature of the relationship is “far closer and more complex than Trump has admitted.” [01:52]
2. Survivor Solidarity & Personal Accounts [04:54 - 09:57]
- Danielle Bensky describes the emotional toll on survivors ahead of the DOJ deadline:
“We anticipate so much for Friday. We’re hoping for so much on Friday… Tension is very high.” [04:54]
- On survivor community dynamics: “Each survivor [has] their own experience… We needed that strength… I love these women… there is such an extreme bond between us.” [06:13]
- Coming forward: “If I don't say something, more girls are going to feel like the way I've been living… living in the shame.” [08:06]
- Paying tribute to original survivor voices, especially Virginia Giuffre:
“Not a moment goes by that all of us feel like, you know, we carry her message all the time.” [09:32]
3. Pressing for Accountability & Legal Barriers [09:57 - 17:06]
- Tara Palmieri shares survivor skepticism about DOJ transparency:
“They want follow through. They’re worried that they’re not going to get much tomorrow… they were jaded by the process.” [10:17]
- Harry Litman on redactions and the likelihood of disclosure:
“There are so many question marks. Of these hundred thousand documents… If I’m betting, we don’t see them tomorrow for whatever reason… But the drumbeats will continue.” [11:57-13:27]
- Nick Confessore (NYT Reporter): On the broader environment at parties and the modeling world:
“These two men were close friends… Their passion was not golf… It was chasing women… there were agencies that would send busloads of women to Mar-a-Lago for parties. I’ve talked to women… underage and served alcohol at Mar-a-Lago.” [13:40]
- Survivors’ frustration at not accessing their own FBI files:
Danielle Bensky: “So many of us… have requested our files… and we still have not seen them… 2008’s a long year. So we’re kind of shooting in the dark.” [16:12-16:24]
4. Power, Fear, and Silence [17:16 - 28:38]
- Casual misogyny & intimidation: “Trump… seemed to enjoy regaling Epstein with tales of his sexual exploits. And Epstein seemed to delight in how uncomfortable it made her to overhear them.” [21:40]
- Objectifying environment: “They remember the way he demeaned them or treated them like meat… It’s a power play.” —Tara Palmieri [21:58]
- Threats faced by survivors: Danielle Bensky discusses manipulation, intimidation, and threats:
“It might come from a very back-ended way… I’ve heard survivors talk about their families being threatened and that’s kind of where it ends up.” [25:26]
- Why survivors are quiet or anonymous: Nick Confessore notes:
“I have never done a story where people were so terrified of even responding to an email… They’re terrified for their families, for their reputations.” [26:11]
- Grooming and manipulation: Danielle Bensky emphasizes the enduring trauma:
“His end goal was to break as many girls as humanly possible… the abuse wasn’t just physical, it was mental as much as it was physical.” [27:06-27:49]
5. Trump Media Business Dealings & Ethics [29:18 - 35:27]
- $6 Billion Merger: Trump Media & Technology Group to merge with TAE Technologies (nuclear fusion), raising major ethical and legal questions.
- Conflicts of interest: Teddy Schleifer (NYT):
“You have a sitting president being a large shareholder in a media company where his shares are held by his son in a blind trust… Trump’s policies as president could enrich himself later on…” [31:24-32:30]
- “This is emoluments clause violation number 572, using the presidency to enrich himself. But it’s worse because… the valuation is complete phony baloney. Six billion, who knows?” —Harry Litman [34:29]
6. Michelle Obama: On Voting, Dignity & Wisdom [35:42 - 42:11]
- On the impact of cruelty and the importance of voting:
“I can’t get into the minds of people who are cruel and mean… You know, the question that we have to ask ourselves is, why are we okay with it?” —Michelle Obama [19:37] “Vote. I mean, it’s always my message… People fought and died for the right to vote.” [36:56]
- Legacy of candid communication and empowerment:
“If someone wants to rob a woman of her dignity or respect, they will go after her appearance… we have to be looking out for the next generation that is coming up because what we have being this age is wisdom. What she has at this age is wisdom.” —Jonathan Capehart, discussing Michelle Obama’s new book [41:39]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “It was like a pissing contest who had the most women.” (Anonymous Epstein party attendee, summarized by NYT and Nicolle Wallace, [02:43])
- “If I don’t say something, more girls are going to feel like the way I’ve been living… living in the shame.” —Danielle Bensky [08:06]
- “They’re terrified. They’re terrified of being sued, they’re terrified of death threats. They’re terrified for their families, for their reputations.” —Nick Confessore [26:40]
- “I think survivors get a lot of: ‘Why don’t you just come out with a list, give us all the names, say the names.’ You have to understand that of course there’s fear, tremendous fear around that. And some of us don’t know last names. It was all a power play.” —Danielle Bensky [24:30]
- “This is emoluments clause violation number 572, using the presidency to enrich himself. But it’s worse because… valuation is complete phony baloney.” —Harry Litman [34:29]
- “Vote. I mean, it’s always my message. Where we are isn’t a statement of the failure of our democracy… it is the failure of people to engage in the democracy that’s here.” —Michelle Obama [36:56]
Timestamps for Major Segments
- Relationship between Trump & Epstein, new NYT details: [00:49 - 04:54]
- Survivor Danielle Bensky’s story, survivor solidarity: [04:54 - 09:57]
- DOJ deadline, legal/governmental resistance, survivor frustration: [09:57 - 17:06]
- Modeling world, misogyny, threats, trauma: [17:16 - 28:38]
- Trump media/nuclear merger, ethics and emoluments: [29:18 - 35:27]
- Michelle Obama and Jonathan Capehart - voting, resilience, legacy: [35:42 - 42:11]
Tone & Style
- The discussions are forthright, personal, and deeply empathetic, with survivors and journalists sharing emotional and sometimes raw accounts.
- The show maintains a steady, investigative tone, questioning authority and emphasizing survivors’ needs for accountability and recognition.
- Memorable, direct language is used, especially in survivor testimony and reporting details.
Conclusion
This episode takes listeners deep inside the ongoing quest for truth around Donald Trump’s history with Jeffrey Epstein. By weaving together investigative reporting, survivor testimony, and sharp legal and political analysis, Nicolle Wallace and her guests illuminate the power dynamics, systemic failures, and very real personal costs that underlie the case. The show underscores the urgent need for transparency and the formidable barriers—cultural, institutional, and personal—that continue to stand in its way. The episode closes with notes of hope and resilience, driven by Michelle Obama’s call to civic action and determination to uplift the next generation.