“The American people are demanding accountability”

Summary

Deadline: White House — “The American people are demanding accountability”

Host: Nicolle Wallace (MS NOW)
Date: January 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

This powerful episode addresses the mounting public outcry over the death of Alex Preddy, an American citizen shot by federal immigration officers in Minneapolis. Nicolle Wallace sits down with national security experts, lawmakers, and reporters to analyze the emerging evidence, the Trump administration’s response, the eruption of protests nationwide, and simmering constitutional and moral crises in U.S. governance. The episode foregrounds how communities are mobilizing in real time to demand accountability and resist what guests characterize as a dangerous, authoritarian shift in federal power.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Minneapolis Incident and Frame-by-Frame Analysis

Segment: 00:36–04:52

• Wallace opens by calling the Minneapolis shooting a “turning point” and highlights public demands for accountability.
• A detailed New York Times frame-by-frame analysis undermines DHS claims that Alex Preddy posed a threat, showing the ICE officer fired from behind after Preddy had been disarmed.
• Trump administration initiates an internal “use of force review,” but no criminal investigation. State investigators get only partial access to the scene as federal officials restrict information.

Quote:

“Federal officers using lethal force against a... target who didn't appear to pose any threat.”
— Nicolle Wallace (00:36)

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2. Official Responses and Escalating Tension

Segment: 04:26–06:22

• Donald Trump’s muted response is replayed:

  “I want to see the investigation. I'm gonna be watching over it. I want a very honorable and honest investigation. I have to see it myself.”
  — Donald Trump, via Wallace quoting (04:34)

• Wallace points out the investigation is neither “big or honorable or honest.”
• Nationwide protests spark in response, from Minneapolis to San Francisco and Washington, D.C.

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3. On-the-Ground Perspective in Minneapolis

Segment: 06:24–09:34

• Reporter Alex Tabitt describes the scene as both an active investigation and a mourning ground, with artistic tributes and vigils.
• Local and national faith leaders, including Senator Raphael Warnock, have traveled to lend support.

Memorable Quote:

“There's something called the ministry of presence that sometimes showing up is its own power.”
— Senator Raphael Warnock (07:51)

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4. Law Enforcement and Accountability: Expert Analysis

Segment: 09:34–14:11

• Michael Feinberg (former FBI, Lawfare fellow) responds to the New York Times analysis:
  • Calls out lack of “emotional maturity” and “well-trained officers” in incident.
  • Declares the event “looks more like an execution than a law enforcement operation.”
• Feinberg’s lesson:

  “We are watching people empowered by the United States government to carry badges and weapons, using those weapons against the citizen who poses no threat... This is shameful. This is horrifying.”
  (11:40)

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5. Impact on Minneapolis and Broad Community Resilience

Segment: 14:11–19:35

• Wallace and Alex Wagner explore how Minneapolis has become both traumatized and newly resolute.
• Community shifts: Churches relying on virtual services; fear pervading communities of color; but outpouring of communal support.
• Wagner:

  “The sound of sorrow is almost drowned out by the sound of joy... The whole city has risen up to offer a resounding rejection of everything that ICE and MAGA and Donald Trump stand for.”
  (16:18–17:30)

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6. Democratic Pushback in Congress

Segment: 21:23–28:28

• NYT’s Nick Corsaniti and Senator Angela Brooks of Maryland discuss Congressional Democrats’ moves to block DHS funding unless the administration is held accountable.
• Brooks uncompromising:

  “Absolutely not. There should not be another penny that goes toward this effort, which now we understand clearly what it is. Donald Trump's agenda around immigration is to kill Americans in our cities.”
  (22:37)

• Democrats recognize a “moral inflection point,” emphasizing links between funding redirections (from health care, nutrition) and brutality.

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7. Pam Bondi’s Demands and Voter Roll Controversy

Segment: 29:15–32:15

• After the shooting, Attorney General Pam Bondi sends Minnesota a list of demands to end federal presence, most controversially requesting full voter rolls.
• Minnesota’s Secretary of State called it “a ransom note.”
• Corsaniti explains DOJ lawsuits against states for voter data: unprecedented and deeply concerning, undermining federalism and state election control.

Quote:

“Voter rolls are kept by states. States, according to the Constitution, set the time, place and manner [of elections]... not the Justice Department and not the president.”
— Nick Corsaniti (31:10)

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8. Weaponization of Justice Department — Historical Parallels and Risks

Segment: 32:15–36:55

• Wallace, Wagner, and Feinberg discuss Pam Bondi’s misuse of DOJ powers—pressuring, fabricating claims to justify state data seizures, reflecting Trump’s post-2020 playbook.
• Analogies to mob tactics and historical authoritarianism.
• Wagner:

  “This is Goodfellas. This is like mob style extortion... Now it just happens to be employed by the president of the United States and his acolytes.”
  (35:47)

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9. Election Integrity: Systemic Threats and State Resilience

Segment: 36:55–41:32

• Corsaniti and Feinberg warn that top roles in DHS, FEMA, and CISA are now held by individuals implicated in subverting the 2020 election and spreading disinformation.
• Feinberg:

  “For the federal government to try and infringe upon that [state election control] power is really unprecedented... I really have to search my memory and, like, other than Andrew Jackson, I can't think of a single United States president who thought that he had the right to bully all subsidiary levels of government in the fashion that this administration is.”
  (39:54)

• Alex Wagner points to historical echoes and ongoing public resistance:

  “…the American people are having their voices heard and they have. They remember their history.”
  (41:11)

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Notable Quotes and Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote / Moment | |------------|----------------------------|---------------| | 01:31 | Reporter (NYT analysis) | “The shooter was standing behind Preddy and not under direct threat, contradicting statements from Homeland Security officials...” | | 11:19 | Michael Feinberg | “This looks more like an execution than a law enforcement operation.” | | 15:36 | Nicolle Wallace | “...to hear it described by an expert in what it looks like to me... an execution. It is a sad and horrifying state of affairs, but it is changing us.” | | 16:18-17:30| Alex Wagner | “...the sound of sorrow is almost drowned out by the sound of joy... The whole city has risen up to basically offer a just resounding rejection of everything that ICE and MAGA and Donald Trump stand for.” | | 22:37 | Sen. Angela Brooks | “There should not be another penny that goes toward this effort... Donald Trump's agenda around immigration is to kill Americans in our cities. And I vote no.” | | 31:10 | Nick Corsaniti | “...the election is up to the states, not the Justice Department and not the president...” | | 35:47 | Alex Wagner | “This is Goodfellas. This is like mob style extortion... Now it just happens to be employed by the president of the United States and his acolytes.” | | 39:54 | Michael Feinberg | “...other than Andrew Jackson, I can't think of a single United States president who thought that he had the right to bully all subsidiary levels of government in the fashion that this administration is.” | | 41:11 | Alex Wagner | “...the American people are having their voices heard... They remember their history.” |

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:36–04:52 — Breaking down the Minneapolis shooting and NYT analysis
• 06:24–09:34 — On-the-ground report from Minneapolis and community/federal tension
• 09:34–14:11 — Former FBI agent Feinberg on police conduct and national response
• 14:11–19:35 — Alex Wagner on citywide trauma, resilience, and resistance
• 21:23–28:28 — Congressional Democratic action and Senator Brooks' fiery critiques
• 29:15–32:15 — Pam Bondi’s voter roll demand and expert analysis
• 32:15–36:55 — DOJ politicization, election liars in power, and mob analogies
• 36:55–41:32 — Systemic threats to election integrity; hope in the courts and people

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Summary: Tone & Takeaways

• Urgent and unflinching: The episode’s mood is defined by grief, outrage, and resolve in the face of escalating state violence and erosion of institutional norms.
• Refusal of despair: Despite fear, communities unite in resistance; guests highlight the historical continuity of protest and the ongoing fight for civil rights.
• A warning and a call: With federal law enforcement and the DOJ pressed into open political service and targeting state powers, Wallace and her guests warn of a crisis in American self-government. Yet, repeated is the theme that ordinary Americans are driving a new movement for accountability—even as national leaders hesitate.

Closing thought:

“It’s been just the American people... But now they are leading other people into the streets and in protest.”
— Nicolle Wallace (41:32)

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This summary captures the detailed substance and emotional tenor of the episode, providing essential context, analysis, and direct voice for listeners who need the full story behind America’s ongoing crisis of accountability and resistance.

Transcript

[Nicole Wallace]

MS NOW presents the chart topping original podcast the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week she sits down with former policy advisor Susan Rice.

[Alex Wagner]

We are an incredibly resilient country and nobody has ever won over the long.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Term betting against the United States ability.

[Nicole Wallace]

To renew and grow the best people with Nicole Wallace. Listen now. For early access ad free listening and bonus content, subscribe to Ms. Now premium on Apple Podcasts.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Hi there everyone. It's four o' clock in New York, and optimists might call it a turning point this afternoon in Minneapolis, Minnesota. And it didn't happen on its own. Because day by day, louder and louder, the people of Minneapolis and Minnesota and the American people at large are demanding accountability from an administration seemingly hell bent on avoiding it at all costs. Today, three days after immigration officers shot and killed Alex Preddy, there is still no evidence 0 to support the claim that Preddy was there to do any harm or to hurt anyone he was ever a threat. In fact, a comprehensive new frame by frame analysis conducted by the New York Times of the clearest available video plainly illustrates what many people recognized from the beginning with their own eyes. Federal officers using lethal force against a person, a target who didn't appear to pose any threat, watch.

[Narrator/Reporter]

In around five seconds, after fully turning his attention toward Preddy, the agent draws his weapon and shoots. His arm visibly recoils at the first shot. The firearm has clearly been removed from the scrum. When the first shots are fired toward Preddy at close range, the officer who disarmed Preddy can be seen reacting to the sound of the first shot, looking back toward the skirmish. The shooter was standing behind Preddy and not under direct threat, contradicting statements from Homeland Security officials that he fired defensive shots. He also has a vantage point to see the gun pulled from the scene, but it's unclear if he did and whether he thought a weapon was still on Preddy. He then fires three more shots from behind Preddy, whose arms are down as he appears to brace himself against the pavement.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Despite what the things we can see with our own eyes and that frame by frame analysis makes abundantly clear and lays bare, the Trump administration appears to be initiating what is called a, quote, use of force review. It's happening inside its Customs and Border Protection office instead of opening a criminal investigation into the shooting. Now, on top of that, two people familiar with that decision tell Ms. Now another DHS unit will look into whether Preddy broke any laws. Homeland Security Investigations Unit is part of ICE and normally focuses on trafficking, tracking down human trafficking suspects and narcotics rings and other threats to US national security. But as we said, after days of defending the indefensible, there are some signs you kind of squint this afternoon that the Trump administration might be starting to back off and begin a process of coming to terms with the public outrage it is now up against. For starters, we understand border czar Tom Homan is newly overseeing immigration enforcement operations in Minnesota. We understand he met with that state's governor, Governor Tim Walz, and the mayor of Minneapolis, Mayor Jacob Fry, earlier today. In addition, it appears state investigators are finally getting a look at the crime scene. Our colleague Alex Tabet witnessed this earlier. A team from Minnesota's Bureau of Criminal Apprehension examining bullet holes in other areas. But a spokesperson from the state investigators tells msnow the federal government is still not sharing information on its investigation. Earlier today, Donald Trump took what we will call a relatively measured or defensive tone on this shooting and that he didn't go right for the lines repeated ad nauseam by his vice president and others in his administration. Watch.

[Alex Wagner]

Do you believe that Alex Bunny's death was justified?

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, you know, we're doing a big investigation.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

I want to see the investigation.

[Nicole Wallace]

I'm gonna be watching over it.

[Alex Tabitt (Reporter on the ground)]

I want a very honorable and honest investigation.

[Nicole Wallace]

I have to see it myself.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

It is worth noting, as reporting from our colleagues and from the New York Times suggests the investigation does not appear to be big or honorable or honest at this point, from what we understand. And on top of that, just moments ago, Donald Trump said this.

[Senator Angela Brooks]

Do you agree with the assessment from.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Some of your own officials that Alex.

[Alex Wagner]

Freddy is a domestic terrorist or an assassin?

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, I haven't heard that, but certainly he shouldn't have been carrying a gun.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Should have been carrying a gun. Your Second Amendment allies want a word. And this coming from a president who pardoned armed rioters carrying lots and lots of guns, who said that those armed rioters were, quote, his people? According to former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson, all of this follows days of public protests and unrest in cities all across our country. What you're watching is video from Minnesota. But go west until you hit the Pacific Ocean. And this is what you see at UCSF UC San Francisco protests vigils or go east to the Atlantic Ocean. And likewise, American citizens in Washington, D.C. are voicing their disgust, exercising their First Amendment rights to protests as well. That is where we start today. Former assistant special agent in charge of the FBI and national security and intelligence analyst Michael Feinberg is back with us. He's also a fellow at Lawfare. My friend and colleague, senior political analyst contributing host on Pod Save America, host of the podcast Runaway Country. Alex Wagner is he or she is in Minneapolis right now. But I want to start, as we have so many of these days, with our reporter on the ground, Alex Tabitt. Alex, take me inside. What's happening in the big developments today?

[Senator Angela Brooks]

Thank you so much.

[Alex Tabitt (Reporter on the ground)]

Well, Nicole, we are here at the site where Alex Petty lost his life, here where statewide investigators came to collect more evidence earlier this morning, take photographs of this scene. This scene is really acting both as an investigation scene for those statewide investigators, but also, of course, as a place of mourning as thousands of people continue to stream to this site to pay their respects to Alex Preddy. And this grieving, this healing process takes many forms. For some creatives, their form of expression, their form of healing is through art. I want you to take a look right over there where a local artist has just painted a portrait of Alex Preddy. And for many other people, this grieving process, this healing process has been through prayer. We've seen leaders from local denominations across the state come here and lead vigils and hold arm in arm with their fellow Minnesotans to help them lead heal. We've also seen pastors and reverends from out of state come here, including the Democratic senator from Georgia, Raphael Warnock, who was here earlier this morning. I got the opportunity to chat with Senator Warnock. I want you to hear a portion of our conversation there.

[Senator Raphael Warnock]

Well, first of all, I want to say how inspired I am by the people of Minneapolis who are standing up in this moral moment in which the very identity of our country is on the line. Those faith leaders showed up because they believe, as I do, that there's something called the ministry of presence that sometimes showing up is his own power. And they know that what is happening with immigrant communities concerns all of us. And that clearly was the feeling of Ms. Renee good and Alex Preddy. They literally put their bodies on the line in the best of the civil rights tradition. I'm pastor of Ebenezer Baptist church where Dr. King served. And sometimes there's great power in showing up, literally putting your bodies in the struggle. And the people of Minnesota are doing that in a way that I think is standing up not only for Minnesota, but they're standing up for the whole country because sadly, the Trump Vance regime intends to take this tragic and destructive show on the road.

[Alex Tabitt (Reporter on the ground)]

And Nicole, viewers can catch the rest of my conversation with with Senator Warnock later this evening on all in with Chris Hayes. But it's important to note that while this community continues to grapple with this trauma. And even though the Trump administration has indicated that they will be pulling some federal agents out of the Twin Cities as soon as today, ICE and Border Patrol operations continue right here as those federal agents continue to swarm the Twin Cities during this immigration crackdown.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Nicole, Michael Feinberg, let me bring you in and let me turn your attention back to the frame by frame analysis in the New York Times. It's invaluable journalism. The New York Times was out with one of the first sort of photographic stories after the shooting on Saturday, sort of thrusting images that people could reach their own conclusions about. But now that they're sort of, they've got this detailed analysis, it seems to lend itself to your expertise. So just tell me what it means when their reporter goes through frame by frame and shows an agent shooting Alex Preddy from behind.

[Michael Feinberg (Former FBI agent, analyst)]

You know, probably the most important quality for anybody to have if they want to be a responsible member of the law enforcement community is, believe it or not, a sense of emotional, emotional maturity. And part of that is not getting carried away by the circumstances in which you find yourself. You have to be able to keep your cool in violent, fast moving situations where your life or somebody else's life may be at risk. And to see an ICE officer shoot somebody who was legally carrying a weapon and had already been disarmed by the other ICE officers does not speak to me about a well trained group. This looks more like an execution than a law enforcement operation.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

I mean, it's, it's, again, it's one thing for me to say that after watching the videos that have been available since Saturday, it's something else to hear it from your mouth. And I wonder if I could just ask you to say more about what you see in all the video evidence and the reaction it's invoked among a wide swath of Americans.

[Michael Feinberg (Former FBI agent, analyst)]

Look after the death of Renee Good, I talked to a lot of my former colleagues, both still in law enforcement organizations and also on the outside now. And although people are not going to be pleased to hear this, there was robust disagreement about whether deadly force was justified because it's impossible for some people to second guess Officer Ross's feeling that she was going to run him over, that his life at that moment was in danger. I don't know a single person who has watched these most recent videos who thinks that deadly force was remotely justified. Most of us are in shock that it's even being argued by anybody. It's really difficult to see what danger is posed by the victim here. At no point is he raising his Hands against the officers. At no point is he fighting back. At no point is he going for his weapon. This just looks like a beatdown, and they're beating him down because he came to the aid of somebody in distress. And with respect to the nation, now seeing this video en masse, it's a really sad state of affairs that this is the sort of analysis and debate that everyday citizens need to get involved in. And it's not just sad, it's horrifying, because the debate is being spurred on solely by government actors. It would be one thing if we were watching a video of a terrorist attack, one of a violent crime. We are watching people empowered by the United States government to carry badges and weapons, using those weapons against the citizen who poses no threat to them. This is shameful. This is horrifying. And it is something for which both the communities in Minneapolis and the nation as a whole very much deserve an accounting and ultimately a reckoning.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Alex Wagner, I'm so glad that Michael sort of put in words what it feels like to broadcast those images. This was somebody's son. His parents spoke out. And for the second day in a row, we have led with video the violent way in which he left this earth, lost his life. And for Michael Feinberg to describe it as a quote, execution is, for me, jarring anew. It's as jarring as it was Saturday morning when I saw it for the first time, to hear it described by an expert in what it looks like to me. But it does feel like we are changing, both those of us bearing witness and making these decisions to broadcast this video again a second day in a row to our beloved viewers here. But it is important because the debate in this country is about whether or not you can believe what you see with your own eyes, whether or not you can believe people who spent their careers and plan to stay at the FBI. But because of the choices Donald Trump made are no longer there. I'm describing it as exactly what it looks like to the untrained eye and execution. It is a sad and horrifying state of affairs, but it is changing us, and it is starting where you are. And I wonder if you can just talk about how that city has changed.

[Alex Wagner]

Well, so I'm sitting here in the Park Avenue United Methodist Church, which is of local church. It's a block away from where Renee Goode was killed. They offer mutual aid programs. They have a preschool, a Spanish language program, a mobile medical clinic. Almost everything has had to go online or virtual or they've had to meet people at their homes because congregants are too terrified to come out. And not just congregants who are without papers, anybody who's brown or black, people of color, American citizens you might be helping. People without papers are terrified to be out on the streets. I mean, that's a marked change from how we think about American life.

[Senator Angela Brooks]

Right.

[Alex Wagner]

And yet, Nicole, I think the thing I wasn't expecting, and I haven't been here that long, but the thing that's really struck me in the hour since I've been here, I was speaking with the pastor of this church, Dan Johnson, and he said it is a moment and he was quoting the Bible. And I'm definitely going to get the passage wrong. But the essence of it is it is a moment where the sound of sorrow is almost drowned out by the sound of joy. And I don't think people think of this as a joyful moment because the tragedy is so piercing and that video is unwatchable no matter how many times you've seen it. But the way in which people have come together in affirmation of shared humanity, that they have rejected what we have been told is the dominant principle in American politics, which is one of selfishness and division and rejection. To come together and celebrate people like Alex Preddy, who was out there not because he had to be, but because he wanted to protect the lives of those more vulnerable than him and that he lost his life in that protection. And he is surrounded by people who are of that same stripe. The whole city has risen up to basically offer a just resounding rejection of everything that ICE and MAGA and Donald Trump stand for. And I think we miss, I think outside of that, of the immediate vicinity of Minneapolis not being on the ground, we don't understand how life affirming, this moment of death is for people who are fighting against the encroachment of fascism and the. The sort of ICE squad of goons that are here to upend American life as we know it. People here feel incredibly resolute, and it's been really powerful to hear that and feel that and see that on the ground.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

What is their sense of their own impact? I mean, are they. Cause I think to your point, they're so focused on getting through the hour, getting through the day. I see them all sort of passing out whistles and I see some of the messages they're posting in their community about where to go to get food or groceries. What is their sense? I mean, is there an awareness that the whole country is watching and that some of the most powerful people in our country are following them.

[Alex Wagner]

Yeah. Like when we got here, the doors of the church were being guarded by multiple volunteers. There wasn't an ICE raid in the area. But there's a sense of shared purpose and commitment that I think gives people a real sense of belonging. You know, we've, we always talk about MAGA in the context of they are such a tribalism. Right. This is the rejoinder to that. Right. People coming together for the purpose of protecting the common good. And that's amazing. And I'm not trying to minimize the fear that's very much palpable in every corner. The fact that you can't walk into the church anymore because they're worried that ICE is gonna come in and terrorize the people inside it. That is not a good development. But the goodness of the response, the light that I think still exists within the human spirit to move people with certain peril, come and protect the doors of a church is a beautiful thing. And I think it's given people a real sense of power in a moment where I think Trump and his allies are trying to deny the power of the citizenry.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Yeah. I mean, it's what every sort of person who's written about authoritarianism has written about, that they need you isolated, they need you deprived of agency, they need you deprived of any sort of connection like this conversation, you know, embodies. And they need people afraid and frozen. And they are certainly not despite the freezing temperatures. Speaking of freezing temperatures, Alex Tabitt will let you get out of the cold. We will be watching the rest of your great interview with Senator Warnock at 8 o'.

[Alex Wagner]

Clock.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Thank you for starting us off again, my friend. Michael and Alex, stick around. When we come back, Democrats vowing to block funding for the Department of Homeland Security in the wake of the shooting death of Alex Predding. We'll talk to a Senate Democrat on the fight ahead. Plus, but the state of Minnesota is calling a ransom note, Attorney General Pam Bondi demanding access to that state's voter rolls in exchange for federal agents, immigration agents leaving Minneapolis. And later in the broadcast, Pennsylvania's Governor Josh Shapiro joins us here on set on the plague of political violence in our country. From Minneapolis to the attack on his home and family just a few months ago.

[Senator Angela Brooks]

Ago.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

We have all those stories and much more when Deadline Winehouse continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

[Alex Wagner]

Home to the Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, the briefing with Jen Psaki and more voices you know and trust. Ms. Now is your source for news opinion and the world. Our name is new, but you'll find the same commitment to justice, progress, and the truth that you've relied on for decades. We'll continue to cover the day's news, ask the tough questions and explain how it impacts you. Ms. Now, same mission, new name. Learn more at Ms. Now.

[Nick Corsaniti (New York Times reporter)]

We can't vote to fund this lawless Department of Homeland Security. And remember, it's not just in Minnesota. They're violating the law all over the country. I spent last week in Texas where, you know, they are locking up 2 year old and 3 year old kids who are here in the United States legally just for the purpose of traumatizing them. This is a nationwide campaign of lawlessness. I swore an oath to the Constitution. So did every single United States Senator. We cannot fund a Department of Homeland Security that is murdering American citizens, that is traumatizing little boys and girls all across the country in violation of the law.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

So that issue of funding for the Department of Homeland Security is among the important decisions before lawmakers right now. And it's in the aftermath of this latest shooting of an American citizen in Minneapolis. That and the future of that department's leader, Secretary Kristi Noem. Today, Leader Hakeem Jeffries threatened impeachment proceedings if Kristi Noem is not, quote, fired immediately. I want to bring into our coverage Democratic Senator Angela also Brooks of Maryland. Senator, thank you for being here with us.

[Senator Angela Brooks]

Thank you for having me.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Let me just ask you, how do you plan to vote on DHS funding?

[Senator Angela Brooks]

Oh, you know, there's no question about it. Absolutely not. There should not be another penny that goes toward this effort, which now we understand clearly what it is. Donald Trump's agenda around immigration is to kill Americans in our cities. And I vote no, we should not forward another penny to this agency. But let's level set. The Republicans in this body have already super funded DHS and at the tune of $75 billion. And so no matter what we do here, they've already been funded. But we are at a moral inflection point. We have to ask ourselves whether we will continue to fund the immorality that is before us. We are in a crisis in our country. We have both an affordability crisis and an accountability crisis. And this is an accountability crisis at its worst. And I absolutely will never vote to put another penny toward this agency which is slaughtering Americans in the streets of America.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Democrats, you know I don't mean any of this line of questioning to hold Democrats responsible for funding DHS in the past, but DHS's mission has been clear since Trump was a candidate, when his supporters waved around mass deportation signs. Do you feel like a line has been crossed for Republicans? Do you hear from Republicans who won't vote for DHS funding?

[Senator Angela Brooks]

Oh, I think it absolutely has been crossed. I think any person of any conscience who watched Renee Good be shot in the head in broad daylight, and any person who watched Alex Preddy be killed with 10 bullets, and his only crime was that he had a phone and he was trying to record these officers. Absolutely a line has been crossed. I think my colleagues, you've begun to hear them already speak out and say that they want to see, they want an investigation. We need some accountability here. I think everyone recognizes that what we see here is not only unsustainable, but it is a stain that I believe will really harm our country. Now, what we know is this. For anyone who wants to understand why you can't afford health care anymore, just turn your television on and you'll see it. It is killing Americans instead. The funding that has been used has been funded for this effort. And we have done so, really with young people who cannot have health care anymore. By cutting Medicaid, we have cut nutritional programs. And for anyone who wants to understand where that money has gone, well, turn your television on and you can see it clear as day that instead it is being used by these goons who are running around with masks on their faces, killing American citizens.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

What will Democrats demand if you are sort of successful in bringing about a government shutdown over DHS funding?

[Senator Angela Brooks]

Well, you know what? That question, I have to tell you, agitates me. It is not what Democrats should demand. The Republican Republicans have empowered this. They have the keys to all of this. They have control of the Senate, they have control of the House, and they have the White House. So it's not what Democrats must demand. And this shutdown, by the way, would not be a Democratic shutdown, nor was the one before it. It's really intellectually dishonest to say that when Republicans control everything. So the question here is whether these Republicans feel that it's important enough to continue these ICE operations that are killing Americans, and whether that's important enough to shut down the government. That's the real question. And Democrats, what will we demand? We demand that our Republican colleagues grow a conscience, that they speak up and speak out, that if we're going to govern, let's do so in a way that helps the American people. Nothing about what we've seen. We have no peace at home. This is a president who's so proud that he wanted a Nobel Peace Prize. And we have no peace here in our own country. So we're demanding that Republicans speak up and that they do their jobs. And it is to hold this administration accountable, to get rid of Pam Bondi. She should be fired forthwith and that we should really do our jobs.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

I love your agitation. And if I could clone you and spread it all over, I mean, I wish people were more agitated. You know, I'm agitated having to cover the Republicans in the chamber. And so, and so if we're going to be that frank, I mean, and it's not growing a conscience, it's growing something else. And most people come up and say they fear for their lives if they vote against Donald Trump. I mean, let me just, let's talk about their poll numbers. They're underwater 14 points on immigration. I mean, do you see something bigger happening in the country that they've lost their credibility on this issue, that they march in lockstep behind Donald Trump on when he's not even viewed as someone that the majority of Americans, including Republicans support on the issue of immigration?

[Senator Angela Brooks]

You know, I think Americans have really been clear now. The poll numbers tell the whole story. They understand the crisis of affordability and accountability. The same this administration lied when they said they would make our lives better, that groceries would go down, that the cost of health care would be affordable, that we could afford to buy homes. None of that has been true. The tariffs have wreaked havoc on our businesses. People could not afford the basic cost of, of goods. Groceries have not gone down. Utilities have gone up. And to add insult to injury, we now have Americans who are afraid to walk the streets, who have been dragged out of their homes nearly naked. We've watched that. Unlike what they promised, that they would go after hardened criminals. The two year old is a hardened criminal. What about the five year old who was standing there in front of that camera? Is that person a hardened criminal? So this administration has lost its moral center. It's taking our country in a race to the bottom. And I think my colleagues on the other side, and I know many of them, they see this as wrong and they need to speak up.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

I appreciate your candor and your straight talk and I hope you'll come back and continue the conversation. Senator, also Brooks, thank you for joining us today.

[Senator Angela Brooks]

Thank you.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Coming up for us, the state of Minnesota rejects a series of demands from Pam Bondi, including access to their sensitive voter file, their voter information. We'll bring you that recording next.

[Nicole Wallace]

Mississippi now presents the chart topping Original podcast the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week she sits down with former policy advisor Susan Rice.

[Alex Wagner]

We are an incredibly resilient country and nobody has ever won over the long.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Term betting against the United States ability.

[Nicole Wallace]

To renew and grow the best people with Nicole Wallace. Listen now. For early access ad free listening and bonus content, subscribe to Ms. Now premium on Apple Podcasts.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

On the very same day that Alex Preddy was shot and killed by Border Patrol agents, Pam Bondi sent a letter to Minnesota Governor Tim Walz with a list of demands. Demands that she had to have met in order to end a federal presence in Minneapolis. One of those demands drew particular scrutiny because it has nothing to do with immigration. Pam Bondi demanded that Minnesota hand over its voter rolls. Minnesota's Secretary of State called it, quote, a ransom note, an attempt to get the state to comply with a lawsuit from the Justice Department. According to the Brennan center, quote, since September, DOJ has sued 24 states for refusing to hand over their voters sensitive information. Courts in California and Oregon have already rejected DOJ's claims that it is entitled to the unredactive voter files. Here's what Minnesota Governor Tim Walz said about Pam Bondi's demand.

[Nicole Wallace]

We've continued to work with them. They asked us for these numbers, we provided them. We continue to show they're not serious. And look, I think everybody understands what the last request was totally unrelated to.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Anything on the voter files.

[Nicole Wallace]

This is again, as the Attorney General said, Donald Trump telling everybody that the election was rigged. Who started all this nightmare for America has nothing to do with it. And I just, I would just give a pro tip to the attorney general. There's 2 million documents in the Epstein files we're still waiting on. Go ahead and work on those.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

We're going to bring into our conversation. New York Times reporter Nick Corsaniti. Michael and Alex are still here. Nick, you've been on this story to not even wait a beat and pretend that as the Attorney General of the entire United States, investigating the killing of an American citizen by ICE agents is on the agenda. But to ask for the voter rolls is breathtaking even for the times in which we cover them.

[Nick Corsaniti (New York Times reporter)]

Yeah, I mean, this request has been unusual since the Justice Department started making it months ago. Voter rolls are kept by states. States, according to the Constitution, set. The time, place and manner govern how elections work. Congress can pass laws that can change that, but the election is up to the states, not the Justice Department and not the president. So earlier last year, when the Justice Department started asking states for full Unredacted voter files that had personal information like Social Security and driver's licenses, that raised alarm to a lot of election officials across the country, both Republican and Democrat. This doesn't necessarily break along party lines. And so there's been a fight to protect those. The Justice Department is now sued, as you mentioned earlier, nearly half the states in the country for this. So seeing that request come in, this kind of demand letter, just show it's really unusual. And it shows just how essential this idea of voter fraud is to this administration and how they're carrying out a lot of their actions.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

I mean, Michael Feinberg, I just want to come back to you about fabricated investigations, because a lot of what we cover is in the investigation is in the sort of the coverage of political investigations that are political going in.

[Alex Wagner]

Right.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

So we know that Trump has told Pam via DM that somehow became a post. I guess when you're 80, that happens. You know, indict Comey, indict Tish James. But this is Pam Bondi sort of socializing the Department of Justice's extraordinary powers on Fox News for a fishing expedition. She says to a Fox and Friends anchor, we have evidence of cheating, and I'll talk about that in a minute, but we're still on the ground in Pennsylvania. We're not going anywhere until they declare we won Pennsylvania. That was her back in 2020, before she's AG. And then the host says, did you say fake ballot? She said there could be. That's the problem. Did you hear stories of ballots that are fake? Tell us what you know. She says, we know ballots were dumped. There was no evidence ballots were dumped. There are 60 lawsuits. And in a court, in courts of law, before judges appointed by Democrats and Republicans, including Donald Trump, they lose every single case. I think they go 60 to 1, losing 60, winning 1. Now that she's attorney General, she's continuing to act like Trump's sort of flunky lawyer, bringing about these lawsuits that failed 60 times and prevailed once. What is the danger of using the Department of Justice that way.

[Michael Feinberg (Former FBI agent, analyst)]

Totally upending the entire nation's confidence in the government's willingness to abide by the rule of law and constitutional norms? I hate to put it that starkly, but I think we need to remember, just as sort of a baseline assumption, that this is not a normal Justice Department. It is not normal in the sense that the people at its upper levels do not have the credentials, the experiences, or the values that usually mark the people who get nominated for these positions. And it's particularly worrisome here because so many of the people in this administration engaged in a criminal conspiracy to try and overturn the results of the 2020 election. And that's not hyperbole. Multiple individuals were indicted for a variety of election and public corruption crimes, not just in a federal district court, but in state courts across the country. There is zero reason anybody, even conservatives, should give the benefit of the doubt to Pam Bondi's motivations in this effort.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Yeah, I mean, Alex, this is where it's important not to silo any of these stories. You know, one of the most strident voices against Donald Trump this week is Mike Pence. And I feel like whenever J.D. vance's face is on TV, there should be a chyron that says the second vice president after Donald Trump told his support, you know, or inspired his supporters to, quote, hang Mike Pence. I mean, the whole, the whole snarl of lies is wrapped up into. And the whole way that Pam Bondi ascends to be the country's Attorney General is by going to court and telling lies about fraud that no one was ever able to find. And again, these not Democrats, but Bill Barr couldn't find any. Pam Bundy couldn't find any. Rudy Giuliani, for Christ's sake, couldn't find any.

[Alex Wagner]

I feel like it's a, it's also the way in which Trump's stooges, who are on the rocks. I mean, there's been some talk about Pam Bondi not being a favorite of Trump lately or Kristi Noemi or whatever. They go back to the 2020 election and they go back to voter fraud as a way of showing the BO that they're still doing his bidding and that they should still get, you know, an apple, they should still get a gold star at the end of the day. But like, I mean, just to be clear, this is Goodfellas. This is like mob style extortion. You want something from people who aren't giving it to you, you send your goons in to the back alley to rough people up. That's what's happening in Minnesota. That's what they're gonna try and do in Maine. There are only gonna be blue states that aren't cooperating with this administration. They basically use violence against the most vulnerable population, in this case brown and black people, people without papers. They use them as collateral damage to force the hand of state governments to give them voter rolls so that they can commit election interference. I mean, it is not. It is not. It is a strategy that has been employed by the mafia for A very long time. And now it just happens to be employed by the president of the United States and his acolytes.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

And, you know, to Michael Feinberg's point, these were charged crimes by the federal government and by the state of Georgia. I want, I have to take a break, but I want to ask all of you if you think the tectonic political shifts changes any of the lieutenants in this effort. We're not. No one's going anywhere. We'll be back with that on the other side. We're back with Nick, Michael and Alex. Nick, you've reported recently and we've covered this. A review finds no widespread illegal voting by migrants, puncturing a Trump claim of 50 million voter registrations that were checked. The department referred around 10,000 cases to Homeland Security Investigations for further investigation of Noncitizenship, or roughly 0.02% of the names, according to a spokesperson. They haven't found what they're looking for, but there's always a plan B, C, D. Tell me what happens next.

[Nick Corsaniti (New York Times reporter)]

Well, this has been something that, you know, the obsession with voter fraud as been a big part of the Republican Party for years. I mean, we could go back to the Bush administration. I mean, I was covering Trump in 2016 when he was talking about election officials in Colorado throwing mail ballots over their shoulders. So there's no chance that this will ever slow up now. We don't exactly know, you know, what's going to come next. And we are approaching the midterms at a time where we're reaching kind of an inflection point. The push to get voter information is clearly ramping up. The Justice Department, through Pam Bondi's letter, through their lawsuits is continuing. And, you know, they already said this morning that they're going to appeal the decision in Oregon. We still don't know what's going to happen in California. And there's also been key figures that were involved in either the effort to subvert the 2020 election or spread the disinformation. And the lies that it was stolen afterwards are in the administration right now. Pam Bondi is the attorney general. She was key in a lot of the efforts to spread false information about 2020. Heather Honey is at DHS with a key role in elections. She's a major figure in spreading false information about elections over the past four years. Greg Phillips, who was in True the Vote, is now in FEMA. Marcy McCarthy out of Georgia is now in CISA. So there's a lot of key figures enrolled high up in the administration who either took actions to help Trump try and overturn the 2020 election or were kind of instrumental in keeping the falsehoods about 2020 alive. So with that many figures involved in the administration, it's clear that there's going to be efforts, should an election not go their way, to at least cast doubt on them, if not take more drastic actions.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Michael, how do you sort of protect local elections from a federal government littered with conspiracy theorists and people who are, again, this is not about a fight between Democrats and Republicans. These are people on the other side of Mike Pence and Bill Barnes are.

[Michael Feinberg (Former FBI agent, analyst)]

We have to hope that the courts hold the line. This is strictly a question of federalism as far as I'm concerned. As was already mentioned, the Constitution reserves to the states all the substantial powers of running elections. And for the federal government to try and infringe upon that power is really unprecedented. And it's particularly unprecedented for a conservative movement that historically has been incredibly bullish on the notion of states rights. What we are seeing is an attempt to centralize power in a way that not only have conservatives never celebrated, but that is not part of the American political tradition. I really have to search my memory and like, other than Andrew Jackson, I can't think of a single United States president who thought that he had the right to bully all subsidiary levels of government in the fashion that this administration is.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

Alex, quick last word.

[Alex Wagner]

I don't know. I mean, we're modeling ourselves on Andrew Jackson in so many different ways. Isn't it true? I mean, perfect for us. Democrat trail of tears. A lot of common threads here, Nicole. I just think we've taken the worst of history, or at least this administration has and is trying to replicate it. But, you know, the American people are having their voices heard and they have. They remember their history. That's all I'll say.

[Host/Anchor (Nicole Wallace or main show host)]

And they're leading other people behind them. I mean, for a long, long time, for 13 months, it's been just the American people. Rachel's been chronicling it every week and we've tried to shine a light on it. But now they are leading other people into the streets and in protest. Thank you all so much. Or thank you, Michael and Alex, for spending the hour with us. Nick, thank you for bringing us your reporting on this. It's great to see all of you. A quick break for us. We'll be right back. World renowned composer Philip Glass has pulled his newest symphony, a portrait of Abraham Lincoln that was six years in the making from the Kennedy Center. Glass sang this quote, the values of the Kennedy center today are in direct conflict with the message of the symphony. Therefore, I feel an obligation to withdraw the symphony premiere from the Kennedy center under its current leadership. Glass becomes the latest in a series of artists to push back in the wake of Donald Trump's takeover of the famed performing arts center, including a canceled Hamilton anniversary show, a performance by opera singer Renee Fleming, Isa Rae pulling out of a sold out performance board, resignations, and even a canceled Christmas Eve performance. All of this leading to a predictable and heartbreaking outcome for the center. Attendance is down about 50% compared with the season before Donald Trump returned to office. That's according to the New York Times. We'll stay on top of those developments. Up next for us, Pennsylvania's Governor Josh Shapiro joins us for his first case interview since publication of his brand new book, which is out today. Stay with us. That's next.

[Nicole Wallace]

Ms. NOW presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week she sits down with former policy advisor Susan Rice.

[Alex Wagner]

We are an incredibly resilient country and nobody has ever won over the long term betting against the United States. United States ability to renew and grow.

[Nicole Wallace]

The best people with Nicole Wallace. Listen now. For early access and free listening and bonus content. Subscribe to Ms. Now Premium on Apple Podcasts.