"The battle to salvage what remains of the rule of law in America"

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House

Episode: "The battle to salvage what remains of the rule of law in America"

Host: Nicolle Wallace (MSNBC)
Date: November 11, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode confronts the ongoing erosion of the rule of law under former President Donald Trump’s influence, focusing on a high-profile resignation from the federal bench: Judge Mark L. Wolf’s decision to retire and “sound the alarm” against partisan misuse of American legal institutions. Nicolle Wallace gathers legal experts, journalists, and insiders to unpack Trump’s weaponization of the Justice Department, widespread pardoning of allies, and the efforts to whitewash history—specifically the January 6th attack and Russia investigation fallout—while highlighting the real-world consequences for American democracy.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Judge Mark L. Wolf’s Resignation: A Watershed Moment

[01:06–05:13]

• Judge Mark Wolf’s Op-Ed: Wallace introduces Wolf’s Atlantic piece, in which he describes his inability to remain silent about Trump's “assault on the rule of law.”
• Wolf’s Motivations: After 40 years on the bench, Wolf leaves to freely oppose Trump’s use of the justice system for partisan ends.
• Notable Quote:

  “President Donald Trump is using the law for partisan purposes, targeting his adversaries while sparing his friends and donors … This is contrary to everything that I have stood for in my more than 50 years … Silence, for me, is now intolerable.”
  — Mark L. Wolf (Atlantic, read by Wallace) [02:25]

2. The State of the Justice System Under Trump

[05:13–16:13]

• Public Reaction to Wolf: Wolf discusses the overwhelming, mostly supportive, response his resignation and Atlantic piece generated, giving him “greater hope than I had 36 hours ago.” [05:27–06:30]

• Threats Against Judges: Wallace and Wolf address the climate of menacing posts, threats, and even violence against judges and their families:

  “It’s particularly disturbing to members of our family who didn’t sign up for this.”
  — Mark L. Wolf [07:33]

• Burden on the Judiciary: With Congress “abdicating” its responsibilities, Wolf stresses the courts’ increased duty to check executive overreach:

  “Our Constitution is based on Lord Acton’s axiom, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely … The courts must hold those officials to the limits of their power.”
  — Mark L. Wolf [09:13]

• Decay at DOJ: Wolf, drawing on his Watergate-era experience, explains how the Trump DOJ overtly became a political weapon—removing checks like the FBI’s Public Corruption Unit and gutting the DOJ’s Public Integrity Unit.

  “President Nixon did [this] periodically and secretly because he knew it was illegal … President Trump has done [it] regularly and overtly.”
  — Mark L. Wolf [11:45]

• Loss of Non-Partisan Staff: Over 5,400 DOJ personnel have left since Trump took office, eroding institutional knowledge and ethical safeguards.

3. The Supreme Court’s Role and Judicial Threat

[16:13–19:41]

• Supreme Court’s Approach: Wolf criticizes the high court’s frequent use of the “shadow docket” to overturn lower court restraints on Trump policies, often “with no argument, with little briefing and with little explanation,” creating irreparable impacts:

  “If it should turn out at the end of the case that the plaintiff … is entitled to prevail … it’ll be impossible to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.”
  — Mark L. Wolf [18:16]

4. Weaponization of Conspiracy and Selective Pardons

The ‘Grand Conspiracy’ and Purge of Institutional Restraints

[22:08–30:00]

• Fringe Theories Enter Federal Practice: New reporting describes far-right “grand conspiracy” investigations advancing in Miami, targeting Obama-era officials—including John Brennan—despite no evidence found by previous DOJ or Senate probes.
  • More than 30 subpoenas have been issued; two prosecutors resigned in protest.

  • Internal DOJ turmoil, with career prosecutors reportedly “on pins and needles” fearing politicized assignments.

    “The targets include former FBI and CIA agents … Most federal crimes have a five-year statute of limitations … everyone is on pins and needles.”
    — Nicolle Wallace [23:25]

• Trump’s Motivations:
  • Glenn Thrush (NYT) and John Heilman (MSNBC) argue Trump’s fixation on punishing perceived enemies and valorizing allies has overtaken any coherent political strategy.

  “What does Trump really want? … There’s like a total tit for tat he’s going for—that Obama be labeled with the same label of criminality that Trump himself was.”
  — Glenn Thrush [27:01]

Mass Pardons and the Erasure of Accountability

[32:15–38:58]

• Whitewashing January 6th and 2020 Election Crimes:
  • Wallace details Trump’s “mass effort” to grant 77 pardons, notably to allies and “fake electors,” none of whom were facing federal charges.

  “The Times reports that Trump’s pardon recipients include … Rudolph Giuliani, John Eastman, Mark Meadows … Sidney Powell … another lawyer who led one of the most far fetched efforts to use the courts to reverse Trump’s electoral defeat.”
  — Nicolle Wallace [35:29]

• Purpose of Pardons:
  • Mary McCord:

    “This is a mass effort to just sort of pretend like none of this ever happened on January 6th, but we all know it did, and he cannot erase history, no matter how hard he tries.”
    — Mary McCord [38:40]

5. The Broad Effort to Re-write History and Its Consequences

[38:58–43:14]

• Connecting the Dots:

  • Wallace prompts John Heilman to connect Trump’s obsession with rewriting narratives around Russia, January 6th, and his own reelection loss:

  “Erasing the history of the Russia investigation is about erasing what he thinks people view as a crutch … And then erasing January 6th is about erasing the ugly stench of defeat.”
  — Nicolle Wallace [39:14]

• Focus on Self, Not Country:

  • Heilman contends Trump’s focus on personal legacy, revenge, and exoneration has led him to neglect the nation’s urgent economic and legislative needs.

  “When politicians make it about themselves and their past, as opposed to making it about voters and their futures, that is when they start to lose traction. And that is what’s happening to Donald Trump right now.”
  — John Heilman [42:35]

• Shift from Trump “1.0” to “2.0”:

  • In 2017–2020, internal resistance (from the Priebuses and Kellys) often slowed Trump’s impulses. Now, the system’s remaining guardrails appear gone.

  “What’s amazing to me is … all these people are greasing the skids for this catastrophic political debacle … and that no one cares about the people that are being hurt in the process is just a stunning, stunning, stunning twist from 1.0.”
  — Nicolle Wallace [43:14]

6. (Closing) Snapshot of Resilience: Marriage Equality Affirmed

[43:14–44:44]

• Supreme Court refuses to revisit or overturn Obergefell v. Hodges, effectively upholding marriage equality.

  “Marriage equality is the law of the land … Equal protection of the law applies to all, not just some.”
  — Quoting Lambda Legal [44:14]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Silence, for me, is now intolerable.”
  — Judge Mark Wolf (quoted by Wallace) [02:25]

• “President Nixon did [this] periodically and secretly … President Trump has done [it] regularly and overtly.”
  — Mark L. Wolf [11:45]

• “Everyone is on pins and needles.”
  — Source inside DOJ, as relayed by Wallace [23:25]

• “This is a mass effort to just sort of pretend like none of this ever happened on January 6th, but we all know it did, and he cannot erase history, no matter how hard he tries.”
  — Mary McCord [38:40]

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:06–05:13] – Judge Wolf’s resignation and op-ed
• [05:13–16:13] – Threats to the judiciary, Congress’ abdication, DOJ politicization
• [16:13–19:41] – Supreme Court’s problematic shadow docket
• [22:08–30:00] – “Grand conspiracy” prosecution, resignations at DOJ
• [32:15–38:58] – Mass pardons, January 6th whitewashing
• [38:58–43:14] – Connecting Trump’s attempts to erase history and political backlash
• [43:14–44:44] – Supreme Court stands by marriage equality

---

Tone and Style

Wallace maintains a sober, incredulous, and occasionally sardonic tone throughout, unflinchingly confronting the potential collapse of institutional norms. Conversations are candid, with guests providing sobering testimony, lived experience, and clear warnings about dangers to democracy.

---

For Listeners: Key Takeaways

• Judge Mark Wolf’s public stand underscores the depth of alarm among career legal professionals.
• The DOJ and FBI have been politically decimated under Trump, with institutional safeguards removed.
• The mass issuance of pardons and prosecutions of critics are part of an unprecedented effort to erase accountability and rewrite history—especially the Russia probe and January 6th.
• The Supreme Court, while upholding some rights (such as marriage equality), is otherwise enabling aggressive executive power.
• The episode provides a stark reminder: the sustainability of American democracy depends on the vigilance and courage of its institutions and its people.

---

End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Just in thousands of winter arrivals at your Nordstrom rack store, save up to 70% on coats, slippers and cashmere from.

[B]

Kate Spade New York, Vince Ugg, Levi's and more. Check out these boots. They've got the best gifts. My holiday shopping hack Join the Nordic get an extra 5% off every rack purchase with your Nordstrom credit card. Plus buy it online and pick it up in store the same day for free. Big gifts, big perks. That's why you wreck hey guys, have.

[A]

You heard of Goldbelly? It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country, anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. Gold Belly Ship Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls, and even Ina Garden's famous cakes. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code GIFT. That's goldbelly.com promo code GIFT.

[B]

Hi there everyone. Happy Monday. It's 4 o' clock in New York. In the battle to salvage whatever it is that remains of the rule of law in America, it just may go down as one of those shots heard around the world. And the news wasn't extraordinary because of what he was doing and retiring. It is how he did it. After 40 years on the bench, a federal judge appointed by Ronald Reagan with decades of experience overseeing criminal cases of mobsters and lawmakers alike is retiring from the bench so that he can sound the alarm and take a stand against Donald Trump's assault on the rule of law in America. Former federal judge Mark L. Wolf writes this in the Atlantic over the weekend, quote, I no longer can bear to be restrained by what judges can say publicly or do outside the courtroom. President Donald Trump is using the law for partisan purposes, targeting his adversaries while sparing his friends and donors from investigation, prosecution, and possible punishment. This is contrary to everything that I have stood for in my more than 50 years in the Department of Justice and on the bench. The White House's assault on the rule of law is so deeply disturbing to me that that I feel compelled to speak out. Silence, for me, is now intolerable. Judge Wolf's point of no return moment comes when Donald Trump's efforts in campaign to destroy the rule of law is coming at us fast and furiously with disturbing new developments every single day. Today there's brand new reporting on the Trump administration testing a favorite conspiracy theory of Donald Trump's in a court of law. York Times reporting this, quote, far right influencers have been hinting in recent weeks that they have finally found a venue in Miami and a federal prosecutor in Jason A. Redding Quinones to pursue long promised charges of a, quote, unquote grand conspiracy against Donald Trump's adversaries. Their theory of the case still unsupported by the evidence that a cabal of Democrats and deep state operatives possibly led by President Barack Obama has, has worked to destroy Trump in a years long plot spanning the inquiry into his 2016 campaign to the charges he faced after leaving office. MSNBC is reporting that more than 30 subpoenas have been issued, including for former Director of the CIA John Brennan. Not only has John Brennan denied any wrongdoing, but two previous investigations have failed to find any evidence of any crimes in the way the Russia investigation was handled or pursued. Neither John Durham, the special counsel handpicked and appointed by Donald Trump's Attorney General in his first term, Bill Barr, nor the bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee investigation chaired by none other than Donald Trump's now Secretary of State Marco Rubio, found anything that hinted at or merited criminal investigation or prosecution. But if prosecuting his political critics and opponents is one side of this ugly coin, quote, sparing his friends and donors from investigation, prosecution and possible punishment, as Judge Wolf writes, is the other. Announced over the weekend pardons by Donald Trump for scores of his allies, the ones involved in the plot to overturn his 2020 election defeat. 77 pardons in total from those who serve as fake electors in swing states all the way up to Trump's former Attorney General Rudy Giuliani and his former Chief of staff, Mark Meadows. None of those people pardoned actually faced federal charges. But the signal is loud and clear, isn't it? Stick with Donald Trump and get your own get out of jail free card. It is a part of an alarming and dangerous pattern on the part of Donald Trump and his administration. As Judge Wolf writes, quote, what Nixon did episodically and covertly, knowing it was illegal or improper, Donald Trump now does routinely and overtly. Resisting Donald Trump's assault on the rule of law is where we start today with former United States District Judge Mark Wolf. Thank you for being here.

[C]

Thank you, Nicole. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. And to some of the American people.

[B]

What have the last 36 hours been like since your piece in the Atlantic dropped?

[C]

Yeah, it's been a whirlwind for the last 45 years as a federal prosecutor, as the last 40 of those as a federal Judge I've been limited to what I can say, to what I properly say in the courtroom. I've been overwhelmed by the reaction to my peace in the Atlantic, including the invitation to speak with you in. And it's been very encouraging in a way, because, as you saw in my piece, I expressed some skepticism about what I'm striving to do in this new chapter will be successful. Although I think it's important to try and to work with many others to try to protect our rule of law and democracy in the United States, the response I've received gives me greater hope than I had 36 hours ago.

[B]

One of the things that I worked in the government and one of the things that I understand from covering the Trump story for nine years, well, one is that my brain will probably be studied for having to cover the Trump story for nine years. But the other is that for every person like you, for whom entering the public debates around policy and politics was once unthought of, hundreds and probably in your case, thousands others, can you just tell me what the judiciary as a body, as an institution, experiences when there are threats and menacing tweets and posts coming at them, to say nothing of the actual intimation of violence. Pizza sent in the name of Judge Esther Salas murdered son Daniel. I mean, the climate is almost impossible to adequately cover. But what has it been like these last nine months for judges?

[C]

The experience of being threatened is deeply disturbing. Those of us who become federal judges to varying degrees, and maybe me, because I came from being a federal prosecutor to a higher degree, understand that it comes with the territory. And while it's very disturbing to us, it's particularly disturbing to members of our family who didn't sign up for this. I've been threatened in the past by people who are crazy and also by others who were, I believe, were positions of official responsibility. And it's. I don't think that the threats affect how any judge performs his or her work, but it does make it more difficult, more anxious, and particularly imposes harms or anxieties on people close to us.

[B]

What is your message to the American people about the importance of the judiciary? When you see the Congress, let's leave aside their policy preferences, but their abdication of the functions of Congress, whether it's making declarations of war or making decisions about tariffs, what burden does that place on the judiciary?

[C]

I think it imposes an even higher responsibility on the judiciary to properly perform performance functions. As you know, Nicole, our Constitution is based on Lord Acton's axiom, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And therefore we have a system that divides power and creates checks and balances. Under the Constitution, under the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, all power is in the people of the United States. Some of that power is delegated to elected officials. And it's the role of the courts to hold those officials to the limits of their power. It's also shared responsibility with the Congress. And while I'm not a political.

[D]

I.

[C]

Think that there's fair criticism that Congress has not served as intended as an effective check or balance for the executive, but has been abdicating some of its responsibilities. And that makes the proper functioning of the courts even more important now than it always is.

[B]

Before you were a judge, you worked at doj, and I wonder if you can help us understand how far from anything normal the current regime at DOJ is for the people who are still there. And I'm thinking specifically about a Republican administration comes in and the first batch that's purged or that resigns in protests or Federalist Society lawyers like Danielle Sassoon from SDNY over the politicization of Eric Adams about the whistleblower who resigned or was purged because email Bove talked about having to, I think the quote was tell judge, you know, FF rulings from federal judges. I mean, how different is that from anything resembling normal inside the Department of Justice?

[C]

Well, I never thought my experience as an assistant to the Deputy Attorney General of the United States at the end of the Nixon administration or as an assistant for two years to the Attorney General Edward Levy after Watergate, would be relevant again. When Attorney General Levy was selected by President Ford to be Attorney General and restore confidence in the discredited Department of Justice because of everything that Nixon did. President Nixon did periodically and secretly because he knew it was illegal or improper using the Department of Justice for partisan purposes. President Trump has done regularly and overtly this. When Edward Levy was signed in, he said in a way that made a very deep impression on me that it's essential that the law not be used for partisan purposes. And he was always faithful to that principle, sometimes in difficult circumstances. But now the Department of Justice is overtly, openly, at the direction of the President, a instrument of partisan politics. The president explicitly says he wants to see the prosecution of people he perceives to be his political enemies. And the other side of the coin is that people who donate money to him, people who are his friends, people in his orbit, seem to be immune from investigation, from possible corruption. And the Department of Justice and the FBI have been substantially diminished in their ability to address corruption. The Public Corruption Unit in the FBI has been abolished. The Public Integrity Unit of the Department of Justice has been reduced from 30 lawyers to five and no longer has any authority over election cases. And this is all synergistic. So it's very different than it was. And always crucial for Department of Justice lawyers and other lawyers is being credible with the court, recognizing and satisfying the obligation to be candid with the court. The prosecutor you just referenced happens to be one of my former law clerks, Errors Rovini. And although I haven't talked to him since he was forced out of the Justice Department, I'm very proud that he was alert and aware and faithful to his obligation of candor to the courts. And it's just crucial that. That the administration, like any other litigant, obey court orders, and it's crucial that the public insist on that.

[B]

I believe he joins about 5,449 people who have left the Department of Justice since Trump took over. What does that do to its ability to just to function?

[C]

Well, I think the Department of Justice is probably still functioning, but not functioning properly again when Attorney General Levy took office. In his brief remarks, he says, if we're to have a government of laws and not men and women, then it takes particularly dedicated men and women to be both, in effect, zealous and fair. And the people who are being forced out or resigning because they can't bear to follow the directions they're receiving from higher ups are invaluable resources. There are times when the Department of Justice needs political leadership to essentially improve the ethics and the performance of. Of attorneys. But there are other times when the professionals within the department are the guardians of its noblest values and traditions. And when they leave, it removes another check on abuse, partisan abuse by the Department of Justice.

[B]

Your friend, I believe he claims you as a friend. I'm sure. I'm sure it's reciprocal. Judge Ludig was on my set at this table when the Supreme Court rendered its decision on immunity. And I'd interviewed him multiple times, but I'd never seen him sort of turn white. He was sitting right there. And you write a little bit about the Supreme Court. I wonder if you can help us understand how the assault in the judiciary, the threats to their lives and their families lives, can be so brutal. And the Supreme Court, I think, with one exception, has said very little as they sort of seem for an outsider to sit atop the colloquial sort of chain of command for the judiciary, as well as siding with him so much more frequently than other federal judges. What is your view in this moment, at this hour of this majority on the Supreme Court?

[C]

I'm, I'm concerned. I know that United States district judges, as I was until a couple days ago, and lower court judges, appellate judges, are striving, as we always have, to make decisions based on the law and the facts. And many of those decisions have temporarily halted something that the president sought to do to executive order or otherwise that are preliminarily determined to be unconstitutional or illegal. Then they quickly get to the Supreme Court in record time and in record numbers. In the Supreme Court, in a very high percentage of those cases on the emergency or shadow docket, is removing those temporary restraints. And when that happens, it means that fundamental decisions on issues of constitutional law, and particularly the power of the president are being made with no argument, with little briefing and with little explanation for the reasoning. And if it should turn out at the end of the case that the plaintiff, the party bringing the case, is entitled to prevail, I think in almost all of them, it'll be impossible to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. If it turns out the president didn't have the authority to abolish usaid, which did work that I know from my work around the world, has saved innumerable lives, it's not going to be possible to restore those lives, to restore people to health, or indeed to restore the agency whose employees will have been dispersed and gone far and wide.

[B]

I so look forward to having many more conversations like this one. I so appreciate the choice that you made to be part of the conversations about this country you have served for decades. And this conversation about the rule of law in our democracy. Judge Mark Wolfe, thank you so much.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

When we come back, one of the reporters who's been following this quote, unquote, grand conspiracy against Donald Trump will be our guest on how a case lacking any evidence, and that was not anything discovered by John Durham or Marco Rubio, has made its way from the deep underbelly of the far right Internet to the halls of the Department of Justice. Plus, the rewriting of history. Again, using Donald Trump's pardon powers to do it. This time to fulfill his desire to keep spinning the lie that the 2020 election was rigged against him and he didn't just lose. And later in the show, new whistleblower allegations of how Ghislaine Maxwell is being treated like a princess in prison and how talk about possible clemency is picking up, raising new questions today about her connections to the Trump administration. All those stories and more when Deadline White House continues after cross Quick break. Don't go anywhere.

[E]

Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless and if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should 1. It's $15 a month.

[B]

2.

[E]

Seriously, it's $15 a month.

[A]

3.

[E]

No big contracts.

[B]

4.

[E]

I use it.

[B]

5.

[E]

My mom uses it. Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront.

[A]

Payment of $45 for three month plan $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[B]

C mintmobile.com Tyler Redicure from 2311 Racing. You think racing's tough? Try getting your friends to agree on dinner plans.

[C]

I'm in.

[D]

Wait maybe what time again?

[B]

While they figure that out, I rev up Chumba Casino Play on your browser. No downloads necessary. No need to negotiate. Why wait on them when you can spin for yourself? Play [e-mail] let's chumba no purchase necessary.

[F]

VGW Group voidware Prohibited by law CTNC's 21+ Sponsored by Jumba Casino Think advertising on TikTok isn't for your business? Think again.

[A]

With TikTok ads, we went from 250,000 downloads to over a million downloads in less than a year. I'm Eve, I'm Anam and we're the co founders of Alinea. Alinea Invest is an investing app for Gen z. We run 50 new ads per week with three variations thanks to TikTok Smart plus campaigns. If you're not advertising on TikTok, you're missing out.

[F]

Drive more app downloads only on TikTok. Head over to get started.TikTok.com TikTok ads.

[B]

The Department of Justice in Trump 2.0 is now run exactly how Trump wanted it run in 1.0 by loyalists. People who are willing to embrace and act on unsubstantiated, in many instances, fringe conspiracy theories to pursue for investigation and prosecution Donald Trump's political enemies. As we have covered and discussed, a federal prosecutor in Florida is now pursuing long talked about charges of some quote, grand conspiracy, that's their word for it, against Trump's adversaries. That prosecutor has issued more than two dozen subpoenas up to last week. The targets include former FBI and CIA agents under the Obama administration. Many of them worked for other administrations as well. New York Times reports this quote the Florida subpoenas seek documents or communications related to the intelligence community assessment from July 1, 2016 through February 28, 2017. Some of the people who have reviewed the subpoenas said they did not mention specific crimes being investigated. Most federal crimes have a five year statute of limitations and offenses must be charged in a venue where the conduct occurred. Whether the subpoenas will lead to charges, much less convictions, is impossible to know for anybody. But merely creating a pretense of criminality or an aura, I'm sorry, of criminality around Trump foes by celebrating incremental prosecutorial moves is a trophy in itself to die hard Trump supporters who have said that naming and shaming targets is a legitimate aim of law enforcement. The advancement of this investigation now causing turmoil inside that office. The Southern District of Florida. MSNBC is reporting that the U.S. attorney there called a division wide meeting this afternoon following the resignations of two prosecutors who were asked to take part in this vast conspiracy investigation into former intelligence and law enforcement officials. That's according to a source familiar with internal concerns there among career prosecutors. The source telling MSNBC this, quote, everyone is on pins and needles, referring to prosecutors who fear being asked to work on a case that President Trump has said should lead to the arrest of an expansive list of individuals, including former President Barack Obama and former CIA Director John Brennan. I want to bring into our coverage New York Times Justice Department reporter Glenn Thrush, whose byline is on a lot of that reporting. Also joining us, Puck News senior political columnist, MSNBC national affairs analyst John Heilman and former acting assistant attorney General for National Security at the Department of Justice, Mary McCord is here. Glenn Thrush, I hate borrowing the words of grand conspiracy. That is what they're calling them and your reporting makes that clear. But my sense is the way they talk about it on talk radio and Mike Davis, a MAGA ally, talks about it on I think it was Benny Johnson's podcast and this is where I first saw it publicly. Facing it's clear that the target is former President Obama himself. Caroline Levitt from the podium of the White House briefing room in late July also described a conspiracy directed from the highest levels of the Obama administration. How does that conspiracy allow for Trump to win twice?

[D]

That is a real, that's a curve ball there. But right at the end it kind of broke. I don't know. I mean, I think it's a really.

[B]

Crappy, crappy conspiracy, right? So they all get in a skiff and they make a conspiracy and at the end Trump becomes president twice and destroys every institution they love like, what's the.

[C]

How are they?

[B]

What?

[D]

It's kind of. Well, it's kind of like. It's kind of like watching every Mets season.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Sorry about that.

[D]

The pain is still fresh. No, look, I think, like, there is a goal here. It is really, really, if you just think of this in terms of outcome and don't necessarily get caught up in the tangle of the procedural stuff, the outcome is really, really simple from Trump's point of view. I want everyone to go through precisely what I went through. I want every person who works for me who was subjected to an investigative process to be exculpated and not only that, to be given, to be valorized. Right. So what does Trump really want in the reporting run up to the story, in the reporting that we did? One of the things that folks really want is for Obama to get into the frame here. They want him to be an unindicted co conspirator. I don't think necessarily it would result in criminal charges against Obama, but there is like a total tit for tat that he's going for that Obama be, be, you know, labeled with the same label of criminality that, that Trump himself was. But the resignations in Florida are just, are just totally consistent with what we've seen around the country in instances where Trump and the White House have tried to push through these prosecutions. The highest profile one obviously was the fiasco that occurred in the Eastern District of Virginia prior to James Comey's indictment. And what we report in this story is a subtler version of that. This case, the central part of this case that we have thus far seen subpoenas issued on in Florida, involves John Brennan, the former CIA. You know, who Trump has been targeting for quite some time. David Metcalf, The Trump appointed U.S. attorney in Philadelphia, has been looking at this material on Brennan really narrowly related to his actions in 2017, and had not yet decided what he was going to do. The general presumption was he didn't see anything there before he had an opportunity to finish his work product. It was, according to our reporting, plucked away from by the office of the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch and put into the jurisdiction, conveniently in South Florida, of Jason Quinones, who is the U.S. attorney down there, who is very enthusiastic about these cases. So again, the whole thing with Florida is just very consistent. What we're seeing in other jurisdictions. They want to have this result and they're going to find the prosecutors that give it to them.

[B]

Did Mr. Metcalfe, or now Mr. Quinones have access to any information that Marco Rubio and John Durham didn't?

[D]

Not that we know of. The other thing that we have reported in this story is that Metcalf was again given a very narrow parameter of looking at the 2016 and 2017 period that this quote unquote annex, this infamous conclusion he drew about Trump. But the investigation, in addition to being moved from the jurisdiction of Philly down to Miami, the investigation has expanded, I was told, greatly expanded, though we don't have any sense whatsoever of where it might be expanded. And that's very consistent with what we heard the magistrate judge in the Comey case last week say about his investigation, which is he questioned the prosecutors and asked them, are you taking an indict first investigate second approach to this? It appears, at least initially that that's what's going on in the Brennan case.

[B]

HEILMAN President Barack Obama entered the arena and Democrats went 4, 0 on Tuesday night. I mean I take all the legal reporting and analysis at face value, but the political calculation seems absurd on Trump's part. The way to make sure everybody understands how purely political and devoid of facts this is is to restart his now decades long personal obsession with Barack Obama. President Obama.

[F]

Yeah. I think one thing we can say, Nicole, if we were to look back over the arc of the Trump Obama fixation, the obsession, the jealousy, the envy, the all of it, right, is that it's not driven by political calculation. There's just stuff Trump does sometimes that is very nakedly political. And there's other things that are just, it's just the id, you know, he just can't help himself being jealous of Obama, trying to inflict, try to get something that Obama has had. It makes him crazy that Obama is beloved in the way that he is, that he's as popular as he is, that Trump will never, has never been and never will be as popular as Obama. And so I think that this is one of these things where I think the political implications of it certainly when we talk about this from the perspective of the rule of law, there's obviously a huge bunch of stuff to say in terms of the more narrow like electoral political lens, I don't think there's nearly as much to say. And in terms of Trump applying a political filter for this like that he thinks he's going to get something political out of it or that he's looking, he's thinking about how it polls or I don't think that's what's driving him. I think this is really much more visceral and a sign of a certain kind of I won't say mental illness, but a certain kind of it's a thing he can't kick. He hasn't been able to kick it. He's tried, but he just can't let go of Obama.

[B]

All right, no one's going anywhere after the break. Much more on this story. We're also going to talk about the complete whitewashing that has now been completed of the January 6 Capitol riot on Trump's part, his effort to overtake turn whatever that chapter is in his own mind, an ugly and embarrassing defeat. He's erasing all that conduct with a round of mass pardons for everyone who was involved. We'll tell you about that next.

[E]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk. Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[A]

Of $45 for a 3 month plan, $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[D]

Seemindmobile.com hey, Riley Herbst here with 2311 Racing waiting for the bus, staring at traffic. Crawl hard pass Irev up Jumba Casino instead of fast spins, blazing winds, all fun.

[B]

No downloads needed.

[F]

Why let the clock drag when you.

[D]

Can let the reels spin?

[B]

Next stop chumbacasino.com let's Chumba no purchase necessary.

[F]

VGW Group Void we're prohibited by law. CTNC's 21+ sponsored by Jumbo Casino Think advertising on TikTok isn't for your business? Think again. We've generated over a hundred thousand leads which has converted into over 40,000 sales for our pet insurance policies. My name is Trey Farrow. I am the CEO of Spot Pet Insurance. TikTok Smart Plus AI powered automation takes the guesswork out of targeting, bidding and optimizing creative. If I can advertise on TikTok, you can too. Drive more leads and scale your business today only on TikTok. Head over to get started.TikTok.com TikTok ads.

[D]

A truck pulled up to the Detroit center where they would counting ballots.

[F]

The people thought it was food so.

[D]

They all ran to the truck.

[F]

Wasn't food.

[D]

It was thousands and thousands of ballots and the ballots were in garbage cans, they were in paper bags, they were.

[F]

In cardboard boxes and they were taken into the center.

[B]

What we are really dealing with here and uncovering more by the day is the massive influence of communist money through Venezuela, Cuba and likely China, and the interference with our elections here in the United States. The Dominion voting systems, the smartmatic technology software and the software that goes in other computerized voting systems here as well, not just Dominion, were carrying created in Venezuela at the direction of Hugo Chavez.

[A]

If the United States caves to corruption or this type of election integrity disaster, then no election will be secure from here on out.

[B]

Mary McCord, those three individuals were pardoned yesterday. It's interesting listening to the lies that they told. Fox News paid I think close to $800 million for publishing some of those lies to one of the voting machine companies that they name. But let me just share. The New York Times reporting about this sort of monstrosity of dozens of pardons. The Times reports that Trump's pardon recipients include Rudolph Giuliani, John Eastman, a conservative lawyer who advised Trump's 2020 campaign Mark Meadows, a former White House chief of staff Boris Epstein, a top presidential adviser Sidney Powell, who you saw there, another lawyer who led one of the most far fetched efforts, efforts to use the courts to reverse Trump's electoral defeat. Your thoughts on the obsession with these pardons when I don't think any of these folks currently face federal charges.

[G]

No, they don't. And this is just part, I think you use the term whitewash. This is a part of what he's trying to do with the entire history of January 6th. That's why the, the pardons of all of those who attacked the Capitol, attacked law enforcement. That's why he did those pardons on day one. That's why he's been constantly changing that, the, the reference to January 6th into a day of love. That's why, you know, those hand chosen people, I think including the US Attorney in the Southern District of Florida who you were just talking about before the break, are now, you know, going after some vast conspiracy that I don't know if they intend for it to extend all the way from the Russia investigation up through, you know, those who investigated January 6th. But it certainly seems like what there's, they're promising, I mean, so many things that this man is doing, having, as you said, already won twice now the presidency are about changing the objective facts that he just can't change. Change and pardoning all the people that were involved with the false claims of election fraud and Importantly, on this list as well, the fraudulent elector scheme. The scheme to have the Republican electors in the seven different swing states, states meet on the day that the Electoral College meets. And it should only be the electors for the winning slate in that state. They're the only ones who are supposed to, to by law meet, but had them meet anyway, sign fake certificates that, that Donald Trump was the winner of their state and actually send those to the National Archives to the Vice President. That was the narrative. That was the scheme that allowed for the crowd on January 6th to put that pressure on Vice President Mike Pence to refuse to certify the vote and instead either count these fake ballots or, or send those states, send everything back to those states to, to change up their ballots. So, like, this is important. This was a central feature of the effort to override the will of the people on January 6th. And I have not looked at every single of the seven states to make sure every elector or to see if every fake elector is on there. But I know some of those names and I know names from Wisconsin and they're on that list. Right. So this was a mass effort to just sort of pretend like none of this ever happened on January 6th, but we all know it did, and he cannot erase history, no matter how hard he tries.

[B]

I want to ask Kalman to pull all these threads together. I have to sneak in a quick break before I do that. We'll be back with that on the other side. Don't go anywhere. John Hamon, I teed you up as my connective tissue here, but really all these stories are the same story. Erasing the history of the Russia investigation is about erasing what he thinks people view as a crutch, maybe for his 20. I don't even know if that's the issue. But erasing the idea that anyone helped him win in 16. And then erasing January 6th is about erasing the ugly stench of defeat. I surmise the problem is that Trump 1.0 pursued a lot of retribution, but people had a better feeling about their personal economic situation. Now he's attacking boats in the Caribbean and in the Pacific. People, you know, fairly feel that everything is more expensive than it was before. And people right now at this moment are having to subsist without snap benefits, without food aid that is normally sent to food pantries, and they're on a cliff for health care. How do you see all these things sort of pressing together?

[F]

Well, I think there's a couple different things here, Nicole. One of them is that is that Trump is. I Think always has been, but is particularly right now, seems to be obsessed with certain kinds of honorifics and legacy. You know, this notion of him wanting to be on Mount Rushmore, this notion of him wanting to win the Nobel Prize, these are like kind of, you know, we know Trump historically wanted the blessing of the New York establishment when he was an outer borough guy and was frustrated that he didn't get the kind of establishment respect that he wanted. It feels like as he brings to an end, comes as he starts to round the far turn of his, of his two terms in office, we hope there will only be two and he won't try to stay for longer, that he starts to think about those kind of big legacy things and so try to get rid of those stains from his record. The things that call into question his legitimacy, whether it's with the Russia investigation or call into question things that got him indicted or got him impeached, these are the black marks. He knows that history will not judge well his behavior on January 6th. And he's trying in some way to kind of get rid of those things and make them kind of pretend like they didn't happen. If he kind of somehow feels as if he can kind of erase the, kind of did this magic marker on the Etch A Sketch on his past by giving all these pardons out and making people and prosecuting his political enemies, somehow that will change the narrative. The other thing, though, that I think is really important is this the point you're making about the politics of this, which is that people talk about how Trump was hell bent on retribution when he ran for reelection in 2024. That is clearly true. But his political power, what allowed him to win in 2024 was not saying to the voters of America that I am going to come back and pursue retribution for my own personal sake, for I'm going to go after those people who did me wrong. What he said over and over again was, I will be your retribution. You have been victimized, you have been, you have been, have been harmed, and I will be your voice. I will seek retribution on your behalf. And I think right now, where you are is the politics of this is that people see him not focused at all on not only not seeking retribution for them, but not doing anything for them, and being entirely focused, entirely, entirely focused on himself and his own whims, his own desires, his own enrichment and his own retribution. And that is just never a winning political stance for anybody in America. It's always when politicians make it about themselves and their past as opposed to making it about voters and their futures. That is when they start to lose traction. And that is what's happening to Donald Trump right now.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, and I'd say he's lost traction. Right. Tuesday proves that. And what's amazing is to me is that the stories that you and Glenn broke and brought us in 1.0 were the stories of the friction. Right. Either Reince Priebus in the earliest days or Kellyanne Conway in her own bizarre ways, or John Kelly, I mean, people trying to resist what you're covering, what we're talking about. And the fact that all these people are greasing the skids for this catastrophic political debacle, you know, God bless them, but that no one cares about the people that are being hurt in the process is just a stunning, stunning, stunning twist from 1.0. Glenn Thresh, thank you for your reporting on this. John Hallman, thank you for tying it together. Mary McCord, thank you for explaining it all to me. Up next for us, the Supreme Court draws the line on same sex marriage for now. We'll tell you about that next. A little bit of good news today for every American who feared that the Supreme Court was considering dragging our country back to a time when marriage equality was not the law of the land here today, the Supreme Court denied an effort to overturn its landmark decision that legalized marriage equality nationwide. Without comment, the justices turned away an appeal from Kim Davis. She's the former Kentucky court clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples after their 2015 ruling, even telling one couple she was acting, quote, under God's authority. In reaction to the denial, the head of LGBT advocacy group Lambda Legal said in part, quote, today the Supreme Court affirmed what we all know marriage equality is the law of the land. The court's decision reaffirms a simple fact, equal protection of the law applies to all, not just some. This frivolous case now belongs in the trash bin of history. But let us not be naive. Our opponents are well resourced and determined. They will keep trying to undo the progress we've made. Now is not the time to let down our guard. We'll stay on top of that story after the break. For us, fresh questions for Congress to ask of the Trump administration when it comes to the treatment in prison of Ghislaine Maxwell. We'll bring you that reporting when DEADLINE WHITE HOUSE continues after a quick break.

[F]

Bubba Wallace here with Tyler Reddick. You know what's more nerve wracking than waiting for qualifying results? Waiting for the green flag to drop. Instead of pacing, you rev up with Chumba Casino's weekly new releases.

[B]

It's like a fresh set of tires for your brain.

[F]

Play for [e-mail] let's Chumba.

[C]

No purchase necessary.

[F]

VGW Group voidware prohibited by law. CTNC's 21 plus, sponsored by Jumba Casino.